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Russia's "Startling" Proposal To Europe: Dump The US, Join The Eurasian Economic Union
Slowly but surely Europe is figuring out that as a result of the western economic and financial blockade of Russian, it is Europe itself that is suffering the most. And while Germany was first to acknowledge this late in 2014 when its economy swooned and is now on the verge of a recession, now others are catching on. Case in point: the former head of the European Commission, and Italy’s former Prime Minister, Romano Prodi who told Messaggero newspaper that the "weaker Russian economy is extremely unprofitable for Italy."
The other details from Prodi's statement:
Lowered prices in the international energy markets have positive aspects for the Italian consumers, who pay less for the fuel, but the effect will be only short-term. In the long-term however the weaker economic situation in countries producing energy resources, caused by lower oil and gas prices, mostly in Russia, is extremely unprofitable for Italy, he said.
“The lowering of the oil and gas prices in combination with the sanctions, pushed by the Ukrainian crisis, will drop the Russian GPD by five percent per annum, and thus it will cause cutting of the Italian export by about 50%,” Prodi said.
“Setting aside the uselessness or imminence of the sanctions, one should highlight a clear skew: regardless of the rouble rate against dollar, which is lower by almost a half, the American export to Russia is growing, while the export from Europe is shrinking.”
In other words, just as slowly, the world is starting to grasp the bottom line: it is not the financial exposure to Russia, or the threat of financial contagion should Russia suffer a major recession or worse: it is something far simpler that will lead to the biggest harm for Europe's countries. The lack of trade. Because while central banks can monetize everything, leading to an unprecedented asset bubble which if only for the time being boosts investor and consumer confidence, they can't print trade - that all important driver of growth in a globalized world long before central banks were set to monetize over $1 trillion in bonds each and every year to mask the fact that the world is deep in a global depression.
Which is why we read the following report written in yesterday's Deutsche Wirtschafts Nachrichten with great interest because it goes right to the bottom line. In it Russia has a not so modest proposal to Europe: dump trade with the US, whose call for Russian "costs" has cost you another year of declining economic growth, and instead join the Eurasian Economic Union! From the source:
Russia has presented a startling proposal to overcome the tensions with the EU: The EU should renounce the free trade agreement with the United States TTIP and enter into a partnership with the newly established Eurasian Economic Union instead. A free trade zone with the neighbors would make more sense than a deal with the US.
It surely would, but then how will Europe feign outrage when the NSA is found to have spied yet again on its "closest trading partners?" Some more on Russia's proposal from EUobserver:
Vladimir Chizhov told EUobserver: “Our idea is to start official contacts between the EU and the EAEU as soon as possible. [German] chancellor Angela Merkel talked about this not long ago. The EU sanctions [on Russia] are not a hindrance”.
“I think that common sense advises us to explore the possibility of establishing a common economic space in the Eurasian region, including the focus countries of the Eastern Partnership [an EU policy on closer ties with Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Georgia, Moldova, and Ukraine]".
"We might think of a free trade zone encompassing all of the interested parties in Eurasia”.
He described the new Russia-led bloc as a better partner for the EU than the US, with a dig at health standards in the US food industry.
“Do you believe it is wise to spend so much political energy on a free trade zone with the USA while you have more natural partners at your side, closer to home? We don’t even chlorinate our chickens”, the ambassador said.
The treaty establishing the Eurasian Union entered into life on Thursday (1 January).
It includes Armenia, Belarus, Kazakhstan, and Russia, with Kyrgyzstan to join in May.
Modelled on the EU, it has a Moscow-based executive body, the Eurasian Economic Commission, and a political body, the Supreme Eurasian Economic Council, where member states’ leaders take decisions by unanimity.
It has free movement of workers and a single market for construction, retail, and tourism. Over the next 10 years, it aims to create a court in Minsk, a financial regulator in Astana and, possibly, to open Eurasian Economic Commission offices in Astana, Bishkek, Minsk, and Yerevan.
It also aims to launch free movement of capital, goods, and services, and to extend its single market to 40 other sectors, with pharmaceuticals next in line in 2016.
And as a reminder: The Eurasian Economic Union, a trade bloc of former Soviet states, expanded to four nations Friday when Armenia formally joined, a day after the union between Russia, Belarus and Kazakhstan began.
So the ball is in your court, Europe: will it be a triple-dip (and soon thereafter quadruple: see Japan) recession as your Goldman-controlled central bank plunders ever more of what little is left of middle-class wealth with promises that this year - for real - is when it all turns around, or will Europe acknowledge it has had enough and shifts its strategic, and trade, focus from west (speaking of the TTIP, Germany's agriculture minister just said "We can't protect every sausage" referring to the TTIP) to east?
Considering just whose interests are represented by the unelected bureaucrats in Brussels, we won't be holding our breath.
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ekm1
DC weather for Thursday: - 9 degrees Celsius.
Americans measure temperature in Fahrenheit
ekm1
First: My computer screen has both
Second: Most of the world uses Celsius and Zero Hedge goes worldwide. I tried to avoid the readers the time to convert.
Third: I thought you were in Canada
Some Americans measure temperature ONLY in Fahrenheit.
Your arrogance is the reason why your statement was JUNKED.
It's 25 F as I write this in Moscow. It's warmer there than many parts of the USSA.
http://www.wunderground.com/q/zmw:00000.1.27612
It's -9 F in Bismarck. ND
Farenheit and M/ph,... both dead. Get with it you hangers on of barbarous relics.
Internal body temp of a horse,...it's not even accurate. 99-101, c'mon man.
Sorry ekm1. I just couldn't resist!
Trololo Sing Along!it's ok, no biggie
It was the LOLs that reminded me of this magnificent song, not the 'trols'.
well, look who is leading her now :):):):):)
fucking dump rag with the charizma of a bank clerk, it cannot get any worse i think :):):):):)
I love trolls. This particular guy is one of the earliest commenters in every article dealing with Russia, yet never posts on any other subject. Sometimes ZH goes for days without presenting anything relatable to him. So, he must be spending many sleepless nights front of his computer, desperately clicking the refresh button, eagerly reassuring himself: "Oh, it's coming! The next one is going to be about Putin. I feel it! Just one more article! Any minute now!" And when it finally arrives after days of agonizing anticipation, he's overjoyed to the point where he goes full auto like a Gerät Neumünster. That one LOL he's been meticulously rehearsing for days becomes a hundred. The man orgasms like a dirty lesbian.
The truth is - he has a hidden man-crush on Putin, so each time his name is mentioned or implied it gives the man a reason to live. Ekm1 too shy to express his feelings, because you see, Putin doesn't like homosexuals. Nothing's in store for Ekm, but a bitter taste of eternal rejection. It is simply wasn't meant to be. All Ekm can do is keep coming here in order to be heard. He secretly hopes that maybe one day Putin himself will skim through the comments, and maybe... just maybe he'll notice poor little misunderstood soul, and reading between the lines, he'll realize that a serenade of lol's is actually a beautiful love poem dedicated to the greatest leader this planet has ever known.
Keep fighting the good fight, ekm!
I comment on nothing else?
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
http://www.zerohedge.com/search/user_comments?name=ekm1
And of all the things I've written this is the only statement you choose to confront?
Your honor, I rest my case.
Who says Europe would be lead by the Russians? The economic power rests heavily with the Europeans.
Well, as long as they have the energy for it.
in Europe, there is
20-25% of population involved in wealth creation
20-25% of population involved in wealth destruction
the rest of population is involved in wealth consumption
where is your economic power? just imagine these percentages would shift in right direction, only then you would get real economic power for europe, it is 21st century kurva
:-)
You forgot China.., which may join as well. would be logical thing to do for them
EurAsian trading block, the new Silk Road includes China ALREADY.
https://www.google.ca/?gws_rd=ssl#q=LEAD+past+tense
Waste of time. Arrogant & brainless EU will turn a blind side and digs its own grave.
Europe - this only fertilizer for the prosperous and successful growth of US.
Competition among the tax farmers?
The TTIP treaty with the US would make the EU America's vassal state.
At some point the modern Europeans have to stop acting like scared school girls, grow the fuck up, and make their own decisions.
The first step in the right direction would be to ban the NSA and CIA from operating in the EU. That would give their politicians the breathing room they need to hold confidential meetings and discussions -- without which any and all other attempts are meaningless and pointless.
That is one seriously one sided treaty. On the side of TPTB.
Putin is a comedian after all. LOL
"We made some folks completely delusional."
This is a political trolling. Putin trolls at the same time the United States, Brussels, Berlin and all the poor countries of the EU. LOL
We all know that Putin is a troll, just didn't know he was this funny... or out of touch. Perhaps this is what happens when you live in a compound surrounded by only yes-men.
Yes, it's very funny. Especially now looks ridiculous position of Obama and Merkel!
Because everyone understands that the EU has not given anything good for any country.
- What country are living better after joining the EU? Not one.
Which country has become worse, after joining the EU? All of them!
Today, all people understand that the EU - it is not a solution problems. EU - it is a source of problems.
Therefore, after this statement of Putin, Obama and Merkel look like two clowns in a circus.
On the walls of this circus have many different labels, but the first of them, sounds like "Greece". LOL
Only on ZH can a "diplomatic proposal" so ridiculous be considered headline news rather than ignored as irrelevant. Even Russians know it is ridiculous.
Putin's exceptionalism is really too much.
What? Like the POTUS???
Sure. Obama is as much of a cock-eyed donkey as the rest of them. All this silly propaganda for Putin only shows how naive and gullible people are.
That was a serious checker move.
How jack Ryan of them.
It ain't happen without a major world war. Let me paraphrase Karl Marx: Billionaires of Euroaisa, Unite. You have nothing to lose but your chains!
You want to know what say ordinary people about the EU in Greece ?
- They say that the EU - this is a mistake and deception.
- They say that in order to have a free trade zone, need not abandon its currency and nation sovereignty.
- They say the EU - is an economic and political GULAG.
- They say the EU - is a prison of nations.
- They say that: "We have nothing to lose but our chains!".
"This Europe, which never stopped talking of man, which never stopped proclaiming its sole concern was man, we now know the price of suffering humanity has paid for every one of its spiritual victories... When I look for man in European lifestyles and technology I see a constant denial of man, an avalanche of murders... Two centuries ago, a former European colony took it into its head to catch up with Europe. It has been so successful that the United States of America has become a monster where the flaws, sickness, and inhumanity of Europe have reached frightening proportions. "
- Jean-Paul Sartre
Mais oui.
Cool, from Lisbon to Kamchatka will be fine for me.
I can see it now; The Trans Wherever to Whatever Aimless Railway. Proletariat class all the way, sleeping on the luggage racks, babushka tea ladies and hardtack rolls with iffy butter, hard smoked fish and the smell. All the way, 32 days and nights.
But wait, there's' more.
In each car, a wide screen (black and white) telly broadcasting a loop of Brother of Freedom Obpajama, telling you how good you've got it and to make sure you throw in your lot with Your New Family, The NWO.
All Hail!
whazzat smell, sheep piss?
An updated Fiddler on the Roof may be in production with modern props.
Might work for the New Eastern Block.
Armenia, Russia, Belarus and Kazakhstan.
Yeah sure, why not...lol.
More better, breathless, gossipy, supermarket tabloid, bird cage liner.
Oh wait, not even good for that;)
Prime the firing pins, launch on my mark.
Now That is what could destroy the EU, sho'enuf. Greece joins first.
The new trans-Black Sea gas pipeline, areed by Russia and Turkey rises from the sea in European Turkey, not far from Greece. Greece, not Bulgaria, who's zino-led government killed South Stream becomes the gateway to Mediteranean / Southern Europe. Greece to get development and transfer fees that would have gone elsewhere.
Someone else said it (lakecity55 ?)...Cuba, Greece, Venezuela...and I'll add Brazil join up EEU and its free ports-o-call worldwide.
If Chinese or Russian Navy shows up these places it could mean serious business.
Will Portugal and Spain join EEU and get free 2-day shipping ?
we can do for you what we did for moldovia and bulgaria comrade-bitchez
buzzy - Moldava and Bulgaria, for the time being, are Russian adversaries. Moldava over the break away TransDneister and Bulgaria over the cancelled South Stream project. They're sure to come around in time, much like Georgia, now making freinds with Russia again after the zino inspired war against Russia and the removal via the ballot box of their zino inspired leaders.
Free trade is anything but just that for average folks, especially with the USSA.
......Bullish
It's a smart diplomatic move by Putin - a way to rub it in, reminding Merkel et al that bitches of Merika suffer unduly. Dumb Merika bitches getting thrown under the bus by the U.S.
It also strengthens the hand of those in each country who are against sanctions, and helps them consolidate their message and influence.
Bottom line: Business interests will ultimately rule, and Putin is playing to them. He's laying the groundwork for a counter-attack against the U.S. in the economic WWIII the U.S. started.
Interesting idea, but businesses can not rely on Russian rule of law on any contracts made. Russian governmental layerd corruption make this offer a non starter.
Business must rely on the corruption free, fair and balanced law of the west... it is the only way, you say.
Well, just think...........
In the West if you're to big to fail,
And to big to jail,
Then the FED will bail.............you out.
systems are in motion - changes to process whether sanctity of contracts or rule of law will be pragmatic solutions - we are at the inflection point and the USA is on a game plan from 60 years ago with players like Zbig and his sons - who control Obama - REFUSE TO see the momentum has dramatically shifted
China will have Blood for keeping their mouth shut since the MacArthur was at the Manchurian border and Russia will have Revenge for the work of Larry Summers in 1991 - the USA is in the laser scope as the sole target in the world
not a good place to be
not a good place to be.
What makes you think the rule of law exists in the US? Tell the GM bondholders that when the crisis started. Maybe you were on the union's payroll?
Nonsense!
German, Italian, French, ... businesses have been relying on Russia all long!
Now that they've had their dumbass governments piss Russia off by supporting U.S. sanctions, resulting in Russian retaliation, they are hurting bigtime.
Listen - when Russia retaliated by sanctioning EU food imports, Putin's team had very carefully and deliberately measured out a response. It is a response they knew would hurt, and they knew would bring even Germany's economy to the brink of recession. They did it knowing that business would feel the pain and pressure governments, eventually, to relent and throw the U.S. over.
Putin also knew Russia would suffer too - but it's ok to suffer for a good purpose. That good purpose is to grow some balls in Europe to stand up to the U.S. and ally with Russia instead. We're seeing just the leading edge of the pushback against the U.S. - it hasn't really taken hold in the halls of political power, yet. But in the halls of business power, it has. That is what Putin calculated, and he also calculated that politicians will be forced to follow the lead of business.
Just be patient - this is all going to work out just fine - it will take some more months, perhaps a very few years.
It's not so simple or glossy, and no this was not calculated in advance, it is an epic screw-up that took them by surprise. They laughed at sanctions, remember, claimed it made no difference. And on the contrary, Germany knew in advance this would be an economically painful process. i.e.
So she, and core Europe are prepared for the long haul, that choice was already made and implications discussed, and she made that very clear, again, in her New Years speech. So Russia is now in a quite desperate situation, it knows Moscow has blown it, and this is a last ditch chance to pull Russian foreign policy of the furnace, before all is lost. It's at an historic cross roads, either double-down on abject failure of policy, or go a totally different way.
They're at least signaling they want to invite a different way to come about.
Fair enough, change is clearly necessary, continuing on would be insane, but there are now substantial hurdles, that have festered considerably in the time it took to get here. And the more delay that ensues the worse it gets.
Given another cold war is suicide (that's a given, eventually) it would be a really good idea for both sides to ameliorate and reconstruct the relationships - totally - and as soon as possible.
The obvious initial hurdles:
1) Trust is in very short supply, and you sort of need that in a strategic partnership, (especially when weapons are flying about).
2) The West don't believe Putin as his words and sentiments consistently don't mirror his actions and state policy.
3) MH-17 will NOT go away in Western Europe, and it will not be swept under the carpet. And honest accounting and heads on a plate are required.
4) The situation in Ukraine requires a comprehensive solution, and a ceasefire that leaves Donbas and Crimea in Russian hands is 100% unacceptable.
5) The US will go all-out to strangle it in the cot.
6) Merkel is so far, "... not for turning.", though she is making very clear she's leaving diplomatic and leader to leader channels of communication open, for such a solution to develop. And maybe it will, but it will take years at this rate to repair the damage, and Moscow does not have years left to fritter away on a pointless policy.
7) So Putin had better be prepared to give a whole lot of ground, in an unseemly diplomatic hurry and 100% terminate and withdraw from all hostile combat and aggressive actions in Ukraine.
[i.e. we are trying our best to avoid a war here]
[Which outcome Moscow has repeatedly asserted it will not accept for Ukraine (i.e. being and actual Sovereign independent State) and which assertion is irrevocably unacceptable to the Western world, especially to the intervening Eastern Europe between them, on Principle, in countless ways. So definitely this situation will not be accepted by Europe. So Moscow has to then totally change its attitude and policy, and entirely withdraw from 100% of prior Ukrainian territory (and return its navy) or else there can be no terms of such a Strategic Partnership agreement.]
i.e. She's just not going to ditch all this on the basis of a proposal, she and other Germans will require hard realities achieved, a bird in the hand, not in the bush.
Putin especially and partly Lavrov, should have thought about the implications and downstream effects of what they were doing about 14 months ago, as now Putin has the truly epic proverbial 'Gordian knot' on his hands.
I personally don't think Putin and Lavrov are the men who can unpick it either, Russia may need a new leadership first, so it can put this mess behind it.
If they're honest they must be able to see that clearly too. So how patriotic and self-sacrificing are you really, Vladimir?
Merkel Whores For Washington
+1 second that. excellent comment, element
You would say that Ghordius. No, in reality, it was a awful comment. Element is taking the cameleon approach. Look, I got a picture of him right here.
don't run we are your friends
Indeed it would be wiser for europe to join the eurasian trade agreement than to get into a trade agreement with yhe usa.
The TTIP is not "exactly" a trade agreement with the USA; it's the end of the USA, and all the other nations infavor of international rule by; ultimately corporations. it's kind of legal, international, Fascism, that you get to volunteer for. It's completely insane; it's the worst possible case of One World Order; and it's real. My opinion ? just shoot me now, please.
Its got a name : Inverted totalitarianism/
Where the private Oligarchy RUNS the surrogate nation state or better the technostructure that supercedes the old nation state.
But the punch line is : the US has invented this model since Rockafella days. And the scions of capitalism gone global, beyond control of states, now want their dues from the welfare construct of nation state to which they are immune as they are all stashing their wealth in tax havens.
"You are for us or against us"...is what this inverted totalitarianism asks the dumbed down consumer who has lost his ethical compass.
Our libertarians here, like to think the scions of capitalism are still true blues who never cheat.
Think again, the ambitious 0.01 % are all tainted today with the same brush.
I down arrowed you cause the Libertarians I talk with are long gone from the cheerleading section of global corporations--
The TTIP is astonishing; it's the complete revocation of Nation-hood. At last the national politcos get their dream; they get paid for nothing; free lunch, and get to be on TV sometimes; but they don't have to do anything; because, "we'd really like to help all you unemployed, starving citizens, but we can't because of regulation 213.4, and, and, they have Judges, and everything, and they'd sue us if we violate the treaty; and like, we don't have any guns, because we had to sell them for the austerity part, and, and---it's hopeless.
+1 die, TTIP, die. it shall not pass
TTIP, you mean like the poison they found in the Ukrainian prime minister?
(Oh shit nmewn, now you've done it...lol)
This again without any evidence against Russia, right?
I mean, this is again unproven lies from the same series that the guilt of Russia in Litvinenko's death, MH17, the occupation of the Crimea and the participation of the Russian Army in the South-East of Ukraine.
So many lies, but no evidence, is not it?
further, why has this anything to do with the matter? only because Russia suggests that the options are either a full trade deal with Eurasia or with the US?
for me it's clear: TTIP has very little to do with trade itself and a lot to do with megacorp power. it's a no-go. thanks, but no, thanks
It will pass not long after Congress approves "fast track" authority to shift the blame onto their croney in the White House, who is a brilliant "who me?" poor victim for the sad delusions of his base and a lightning rod for the ig-nunt fucks who see him as a . . . wait for it . . . socialist.
Hell, the rethuglicans and the dimocraps can both point to their good old butt buddy Barry as the cause of it all once he fast tracks it by them. Oh, the shock and outrage!
What a spectacle this one will be.
It might even make the corporate media. For a minute at least, until they can all get together and create some better "news."
Thank an ignorant populace that allowed oligarchs to buy the political system (falak's comment above is quite astute on that point.)
don't know enough on the US side. I mean it shall not pass on the EU side
Here, here Ghordius. [Hear, hear Ghordius?]
Hey, did you figue out who Cassius Clay is yet?
What?! It shall die? That would be great - but, alas, it shall be passed - as in: The can shall be kicked.
So let it be written - so let it be done! (I sure hope it dies, but see only slim hope.)
Thank you, Russia. Very nice offer. Thanks, but no, thanks.
That leadership-imperialistic thing... fine if you like it, but we prefer peerhood (which is one of the whole reason for the EU, given that all the Big Boys have a certain size. Yes, even towards the US)
It's more difficult, and it generates endless sisterly bitching, but we would miss it too much
You just dashed all my high hopes by saying something silly again. Greece v. Germany and what you are calling peerhood? I don't think so.
because it is not Germany vs Greece. plenty of smaller-then-Germany sovereigns involved which are even smaller then Greece. Finland, for example
it's just that the whole world is constantly looking for "leaders", that Germany is constantly targeted as a kind of "leader of the pack" by the media
and so Poland, France, Italy are often forgotten, and those are the only the medium-sized ones. it's a big club, and the majority of the members aren't Germany
Yeah, but Ghordius you said "peerhood" and then you go on to acknowledge that the Euro states are not peers. There are a few heavyweights and a lot of small fry, as in not peers. Look it up. Maybe English is not your first language?
Peer (noun) :one that is of equal standing with another :equal; especially :one belonging to the same societal group especially based on age, grade, or status
"There are a few heavyweights and a lot of small fry" Yes. Look it up. It's a lot of "small fry". Influential small fry
this one single point is the most misunderstood, outside of the EU (actually even in the UK): the EU is a small fry club (with four outsized members). And that is the whole reason why some regions contemplate separatism from their political unions: small fry thrives, in the EU "wrapper"
Where did Russians say that they want your leadership-imperialistic thing?
All they are proposing is trade partnership.
did you have a look at their current trade partnership, the Eurasian Union? very hierarchical
Why does it seem that the Satanic Tribe is behind this somehow?!?
every cia pig is on this site.
my prayer: a russian sub will take out nyc.
even if i am dead
So, you are pro-American?
He's pro-death.
Not really. You need to check your calculus. Not hard to make the case it could save lives in the long run.
However, any untimely death diminishes us all, even yours. For Whom the Bell Tolls and all that. That's why I'm never on here applauding killing anybody ... unless I have no choice.
"Not really. You need to check your calculus. Not hard to make the case it could save lives in the long run."
Well well well, let that freak flag fly, comrade.
I sure hope I don't find you on a rabble rousing "Hands Up, Don't Shoot" or a "I Can't Breath" thread...I'll slice you to pieces with that.
Mecca, Jerusalem, and the City of London are better picks, surely...
I'm not your commrade mr internet tough guy.
Seriously, goofs like you and the idiot who says he prays for NYC to get nuked are too full-on crazy (not good crazy, crazy crazy) to even waste time on. Go get high to the point of complete inactivity and stay there. Forever.
Do you love New York, jm?
Wow, ZH now becoming the advocate of the move to euroasia; the US pivot to East now has a rival and ZH is advocating it.
Lol, It's awesome to see how the Contrarian thinking of US libertarians is now going off on a tangent !
Man, the rate at which the tangent i-moves --its an i-world-- is d2Y/d2X, its the derivative of the derivative.
Thats an awesome derivative that ZH has invented.
Even the guys in Squid/JPM/City would be green with envy.
Putin has invented a derivative soup that out spooks Abacus!
Subprimes of shale oil now has a rival.
The question is : is that tangential trajectory of Putin's, inviting EU to the Euroasian Vampire's ball, Backwardian or Contango?
Contango is what Putin wants but is it what he'll get?
Don't get me wrong, in this race to bottom I am neutral until the fog of war lifts.
Maybe you should leave your trading screen, trading buddies and talk to more normal people. What you've written sounds like crack fueled hyperbole - in other words - bollocks.
Thank you for your totally ignorant post. You dismissed yourself at the Fight Club. There is the door for pussy fighting.
We are all hungry to see the yoke removed. Russia might be showing the way.
"The Grand Chessboard" is not an instruction manual for a libertarian utopia.
Quite the opposite.
Wait - it this like a white guy throwing the race card?
So why would anyone willingly try to create economic union with dirt poor (and getting poorer on every downtick of crude oil) Russia and its trainwreck asian satellites? All with corruption levels that put anything that can be found in US or Europe to absolute shame (despite GRU agent Durden propaganda to the contrary). Zero rule of law. Zero contract enformcment. All countries with population drops rivalling Japan.
GRU psy-ops website in all its bullshit glory. Or you really thought only CIA made/had those??? Then you have been fucking had.
Ok, that's funny.
Careful now, the parishioners of St.Pooty's Catherdral don't take kindly to just anyone walking in off the street making comparisons to St.Vlad (agent/provocateur) and the CIA. Next they'll have to put up with wayward "American truthers" wandering around between the pews mumbling about apartment buildings exploding and Georgian wars.
They'll sic the monks on you ;-)
The Georgian War was a major success nmewn. The aggressor got smashed. The righteous forces returned to their pre-conflict position and the Georgian people voted out their fascist, warmongering, zino-puppet government. What's not to like? You're not drinking the Kool-aide again are you?
Will there ever be a time you will root against Putin?
Kool Aid indeed.
What you got nmewn? Show me something? If you resent the status quo in America as much as you claim to, why aren't you happy, no cheering to see a real adversary take the field against your supposed enemies? Somethin's fishy in your stance.
You're not in his league, not even within visual range.
In any event, in this matter, CB is entirely right.
Georgia, which had an Israeli dual citizen defense minister, thought it would be wise to shell peacekeepers in South Ossetia.
South Ossetia did not wish to be part of Georgia...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ykJaN0Q9PI
As for false flags and apartment building explosions - who knows.
http://www.historycommons.org/timeline.jsp?timeline=western_support_for_...
You're not supposed to be able to know. Now and then there's a Lavon Affair, but more often than not its probably a 9/11 or 7/7.
But maybe the sudden interest a few years back in Chechen freedom by the same cabal of ziocons who brought us the Iraq war wasn't all about liberty, free trade, and peace?
American Committee for Peace in Chechnya - Right WebWhat utter blithering nonsense! South Ossetia is Georgian territory. The Georgians were legally reclaiming their own land via counter-attacking to repulse an armed colonizing invader that had taken South Ossetia BY FORCE OF ARMS, which had attacked the people and sovereign State of Georgia and undermined and attempted to annex its territory, for Moscow, at the end of the Cold War.
If Mexico took the entire Rio Grand Valley in the same way that the Russian colonial fifth-column militias took South Ossetia, by force of arms, what do you suppose the US Secretary of War, and US artillery units and about 50 squadrons of strike fighters, B-2s, B-1s and B-52s would be doing about them?
Some people's brains are just completely gah-gah fried.
Nonsense - who told you that? Watch the link I provided. Then do some googling. One can argue {cherry pick} the legalities - but the people did not wish to be part of Georgia, and Georgia violated a truce and attacked civilians.
He's just confused between the two Georgia. He thinks that Georgia - which is a state in the United States. This is normal for Americans who traditionally do not know geography.
They were living within and subject to the Constitutional Laws and Government of Georgia.
If they don't want to be in, or a part of Georgia, then
T H E Y L E A V E.
S O L V E D ! ... peacefully and legally, no cities or countries ruined.
Is this going too fast for you, you're not mildly retarded are you?
If they won't leave but instead use force of arms (which they did) to take Georgia, then Georgia can shoot all of them, dead, until the remaining forces and rebels do leave, or surrender. Under the Universal Declaration of Human Rights 1948, Georgia has the right to use all necessary lethal force of arms, in combat, to remove or eliminate every last one of these people. It is the same right all States have, to defend their UN recognized Sovereign territory and borders.
The reason why Mexico won't try to take the Rio Grande valley is because it knows it can't possibly get away with it. Likewise, Moscow gave the Nod and wink to take South Ossetia's strategic road tunnel south, under the Caucus mountains, because Moscow believed it could get away with doing this and make it stick by force of arms if necessary.
Which they did.
And this is exactly the same thing to which Merkel referred in the quotes that I provide above, which the EU plus Germany, totally rejects as viable or acceptable international behavior.
And without the complete rejection of this sort of behavior, Merkel is saying that international Strategic partnership with Moscow is ...
N O T P O S S I B L E !
Which is why the sanctions were imposed.
Which is why Moscow is now in deeper and deeper shit.
Which is why this thread's topic, of a strategic proposal to radically change Moscow's policy, presently exists.
Now sit in the corner and shut up you ignorant dopey partisan fool. [Member of zh 4 weeks and 4 days ... why am I not at all surprised by that being the case]
second this second excellent comment from element, and worth repeating:
"... this is exactly the same thing to which Merkel referred in the quotes that I provide above, which the EU plus Germany, totally rejects as viable or acceptable international behavior.
And without the complete rejection of this sort of behavior, Merkel is saying that international Strategic partnership with Moscow is ... N O T P O S S I B L E !
Which is why the sanctions were imposed. Which is why Moscow is now in deeper and deeper shit. Which is why this thread's topic, of a strategic proposal to radically change Moscow's policy, presently exists. "
Maybe you two should get a room.
Change in the your demagoguery word "Georgia" to the word "Serbia" or "Yugoslavia", or "Libya", or "Syria" and re-read your text again slowly and thoughtfully. LOL
you mention four countries which were neither formally annexed nor parts of them were formally annexed
of course we see blatant imperialism in action. from several sides. that was not his point, as far as I was reading it
I'm talking about the four sovereign countries in which legal authorities tried to deal with the armed opposition. But the US bombed this a sovereign countries and helped armed opposition to seize power. In addition, the US divided the some country into pieces, against the will of the majority of the population in these countries. For this purpose, the United States called Albanians from Kosovo as "Kosovars".
This deception has been made to show the world a distinct people Albanians nation as nation "Kosovars" and give them the right to self-determination, is not it?
But the in the world is not and never was a people "Kosovars". This nation Albanians who lived in Kosovo.
We now have a new country - Kosovo.
In all these countries, the United States bombed the legal goverment for the fact that this legal goverment tried to defend the Constitution and gave the armed resistance to the armed rebels, is not it?
US tells us that the government has no right to use the army against the people, is not it?
But when it comes to Georgia and Ukraine, the United States has the opposite view. In Georgia and Ukraine, the use of the army against the people, is legitimate and democratic right of legal goverment, is not it?
It really is a great example of a well-known American hypocrisy!
Ah yes. Kosovo: the gift that keeps on giving. :)
No matter what logical gymnastics these "legalists" try to perform, Kosovo will always be there to bite them right in the ass.
Dear apologist during georgia war it was stupid tie eater georguan who got support from muricans and he attacked people of s.ossetia and abhkhazia first . If that human rights act is so prominent then where does it go when naked empire of chaos creates mess . Suck it on as much tou can on govt payroll . New member but he knows much more than your bullshit rabble .
Max. Thanks for reminding me.
Saakashvili, moments to remember.
Saakashvili eats his tie
Saakashvili dog pile.
Kudos to YouTube for not burying this stuff.
Hey Element, your point about I'm not in nemewn's league, I agree. You are absolutely right. And thank God for that. You on the other hand, I am honestly sorry to say, are.
element, i always look forward to your insights, rare though they may be these days...but counterpunch, i believe has been on ZH under various avatars and was i feel always booted.
is the winky face the tacit admission that you don't know much about the topic?
The topic being what, St.Pooty and his merry band of monks or this trade proposal among unequals?
And here's the another thing for all you Pooty-Tards to consider (if you have any brains left to consider with) I refuse the False Choice of...Putin or Obama...I don't go running toward another statist just because he's not Obama.
You guys do, like any other sychophant. There is something wong with your character, not mine.
RF has a nice 13% flat income tax rate too. I guess you also think that's fucked up. Also GRU hasn't existed since the 30's, and the Mosin is a hella accurate bombproof rifle..
."the Mosin is a hella accurate bombproof rifle.."
But you really have to dick with the sights for anything under 300m.
Rule of law, now that's fucking hilarious. How many bankers are in jail for the economic havoc they have created? Oh yeah.... Zero. Our law abiding government rewarded them with trillions. Get a fucking clue, will you?
Madoff - who Made off with tribe money. Inexplicably, however, his wife blamed 'the gentiles'
Ethnocentrism is a helluva drug.
Somebody tell the little guy he's no tzar. I like his take on muslims but this is too much mkay.
Yeah, Baby!..."We don't even chlorinate our chickens"!!
we'll teach those CRIMINALS a lesson!...about chickens!
"Bush legs"
not forgotten
Russians know how terrible American chicken
step off Fakodav, most Russians would kill for US chicken and you know it
"useless talkings" indeed
next they'll be wooing us with tales of unchlorinated salt
Great Kabuki Theater.
Freely given, costs naught, reminds everybody suffering "Who the bad guy is" in their side of the political propaganda exchange.
In fact, nothing short of some oddly fucked up, brilliance.
The Big Iffy will be "If" and "What", "How" the US State Department reacts, if they do at all.
A position of strength would be to ignore it.
A position of weakness would be to respond?
Is that true or not?
Have we entered into Propaganda's World of Mirrors as Angleton had long ago described the intelligence rabbit hole?
T'will be most interesting.
I'd bet my last dollar His Highness (TOTUS) will respond.
In his usual practical manner, he'll send Kerry off to Brussels to give long winded speeches that will be immediately forgotten, while in a lightening fast pincer like movement send the USS Minnow battle group on a port-of-call mission to Maylasia to check on the status of that damned black hole (no, it has nothing to do with the issue at hand and that doesn't matter) thus showing the world he means business (or something), followed by Yellens ink jet printer going into hyper-drive to bribe every swinging dick, no account-haughty, holier than thou euro-trash leper to stay within the socialistic colony of a circle jerk.
Now I feel better ;-)
Damn nmewns, methinks you're a seer
PS I can see the negociations between Moscow and the French about who, what and where the powers rest.
The inmates are running a world wide lunatic asylum while creating & cashing checks of zero intrinsic value.
Its as simple as that ;-)
ROFL!
That should be on a zh T-Shirt.
Speaking of, my son and I just watched Lawrence of Arabia, all four hours Friday night through the digital projector.
Great fucking film
"The trick...is not minding that it hurts."
We are so fucking there.
Outstanding film BTW.
Anything to make us all forget about auditing the Fed...
What if the this drop in oil prices was really a power play to crush russia and the M.E. economically while promising our oil companies that we'd bail them out as failsafe against our oil companies going bankrupt and cuasing a national shortage in fuel?... hmmmmm..
Central planning works until it doesn't. See former entity known as the Soviet Union.
Forgot China? That country tables growth rates year after yaer that the USA and Europe can only dream of...!
sINCE 1913 The biggest central planner on the planet has been the USA through its FED, NWO, AIPAC, Military Industrial Complex, etc, etc... Unforyunately for Russia Lenin did not see this angle, Had he understood we all would be slaves by now...
It is very interesting to note that two of the "Stans," Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan plus Armenia are switching sides from the West to the East. these are very pivotal countries who correctly see the future. Watch Turkey very closely now to see a big geopolitical shift taking place.
News today that a 48 hour high speed rail link from China to Moscow is being planned, that is a 4334 mile trip!
Turkey aligned with Russia on December 1st with Putin's announcement of the change to the South Stream pipeline project, which will no longer carry Russian natural gas to Europe through a conduit running under the Black Sea to Bulgaria and then Austria. The new route will run via Turkey.
Erdogan got angry when his "ally" Uncle Sam tried to colour revolution him last year and install his more pliable nemesis, Guhl, in his place. Now he's dragging his feet on allowing anymore CIA training of Jihadis for Syria on his territory. Winning!
Over that distance, high-speed rail isn't. It would be a boondoggle because that there's no need to engineer that kind of geometry to haul cargo. Spend a third of the money on a cheaper freight line and a few jets.
wrong - heavy freight - machinery, cars, washing machines, trucks going west - never by plane - with 48 hours end to end - the value of the US Navy is equivalent to scrap value as a deterrent