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"Some Folks Were Overpaid..." Over 3 Million Obamacare Subsidy Recipients Will Owe IRS

Tyler Durden's picture




 

While the Affordable Care Act fines those who don't have health insurance, it also provides subsidies for people making up to four times the federal poverty line ($46,680)... but, as The Washington Examiner reports, the subsidies are based on past tax returns, so many people may be receiving too much. In fact, as H&R Block calculates, as many as 3.4 million people who received Obamacare subsidies may owe money to the federal government.

 

As The Washington Examiner reports,

As many as 3.4 million people who received Obamacare subsidies may owe refunds to the federal government, according to an estimate by a tax preparation firm.

 

H&R Block is estimating that as many as half of the 6.8 million people who received insurance premium subsidies under the Affordable Care Act benefited from subsidies that were too large, the Wall Street Journal reported Thursday.

 

“The ACA is going to result in more confusion for existing clients, and many taxpayers may well be very disappointed by getting less money and possibly even owing money," the president of a tax preparation and education school told the Journal.

 

While the Affordable Care Act fines those who don't have health insurance, it also provides subsidies for people making up to four times the federal poverty line ($46,680).

 

But the subsidies are based on past tax returns, so many people may be receiving too much, according to Vanderbilt University assistant professor John Graves, who projects the average subsidy is $208 too high, the Journal reports.

 

Tax preparers, who frequently advertise their ability to deliver big refunds, have been working feverishly to avoid customer anger stemming from lower-than-expected refunds due to insurance premiums. They also are trying to make sure customers understand the potential fines for not having insurance.

 

"Eighty-five percent of our customers get a refund," said Kathy Pickering, who directs the H&R Block Tax Institute, according to the Washington Post. "That refund could be offset by the penalty. And if that happens, they're going to be understandably angry."

*  *  *

Angry indeed...

 

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Sun, 01/04/2015 - 16:35 | 5621173 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

What the fuck is a "tax refund"?

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 16:36 | 5621177 Barnaby
Barnaby's picture

Precisely.

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 16:48 | 5621217 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

Seriously - I am gobsmacked when I hear idiots about how much money they are getting back. Of course, it's futile to point out that a) you're getting your own money back after being deprived of the use of it through threat of force and b) you are absoluelty NOT getting back dollar for dollar in value for what was taken from you involuntarily to begin with.

What they do know is that money just magically appears one day.

I am beginning the think that, yes, you can divide by zero.

Jeebus. [facepalm]

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 16:51 | 5621232 Barnaby
Barnaby's picture

Worse yet them who impound money with the feds because they lack self control.

I have seen dozens of above-ground pools come and go because of the "Bonus" of the tax return. God help me for capitalizing on their stupidity.

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 16:55 | 5621252 Perimetr
Perimetr's picture

If the patient died, does the family owe???

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 17:01 | 5621267 Barnaby
Barnaby's picture

Nobody ever owes, they just volunteer.

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 17:08 | 5621281 Beam Me Up Scotty
Beam Me Up Scotty's picture

"Tax preparers, who frequently advertise their ability to deliver big refunds, have been working feverishly to avoid customer anger"

 

Easy, just advise them all to claim "single and 0" and withhold an extra 1 or 2 hundred dollars a check for maximum refund next year!!

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 17:19 | 5621320 Barnaby
Barnaby's picture

No, simply eschew the lending to the government and place a grip on the money-flow, as one might band the testicles of a yearling.

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 17:25 | 5621337 negative rates
negative rates's picture

Well if education didn't suck so bad, obamacare would not cost so much.

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 17:27 | 5621344 Barnaby
Barnaby's picture

Actually, I blame my peers. 1970s kids who couldn't shovel against the tide, got fat and lazy. Are quiescent in their loserishness.

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 18:22 | 5621489 Gaius Frakkin' ...
Gaius Frakkin' Baltar's picture

There isn't much to say about Obamacare at this point, except bend over and take it. 'Mericans will take this ass-raping like they've taken all of their ass-rapings: A twinkle in the eye while shouting "God bless 'Merica.", "Thank you heroes in uniforms." and "I love my freedumbs."

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 19:24 | 5621684 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Well, fucking no.

We will not take it. The shit pile will burn to the ground before we'll take it.

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 23:51 | 5622436 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

I see the problem as withholding tax and net income paid. Simply do away with this and have everyone mail in a check every two weeks to the government. That may shit slap some reality into a few.

Miffed

Mon, 01/05/2015 - 02:28 | 5622670 boattrash
boattrash's picture

Absolutely! I've said for years, that withholdings from our checks are the "smartest" move the Gov. has made.

If we all had to cut a yearly tax check to Uncle Sam on April 15th, it would only happen once. The rest of the year would be a bloody revolution.

Mon, 01/05/2015 - 05:35 | 5622831 The9thDoctor
The9thDoctor's picture

Income tax withholding was suppose to be "temporary" for WWII.

http://www.independent.org/newsroom/article.asp?id=2092

Mon, 01/05/2015 - 09:15 | 5623056 wallstreetapost...
wallstreetaposteriori's picture

Great... Now I am gonna have to get a bigger fence.

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 17:33 | 5621365 Greenskeeper_Carl
Greenskeeper_Carl's picture

I have a friend who from California who now lives in florida (no state income tax) yet he remains a citizen of California and pays their state taxes. He gets every penny back every year since he doesn't actually reside there, and treats it as a nice big bonus. When I asked him why he does that instead of just becoming a Florida resident, he replied "because I suck at saving money". So he is basically lending his money to the people's republic of California at no interest(which means he is really losing 4-6% purchasing power over the course of a year) to save him from the horrors of not living paycheck to pay check and actually saving.

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 16:54 | 5621248 SgtSchultz
SgtSchultz's picture

How much you want to bet that those getting "refunds" believe that they paid no taxes?

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 17:01 | 5621261 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

My whole fucking refund.

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 17:30 | 5621355 Barnaby
Barnaby's picture

My left hemisphere, plus my bottle of Azzaro Chrome, which has supplied me with more trim than a sail salesman.

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 17:20 | 5621324 Musburger
Musburger's picture

I am gobsmacked when I hear idiots about how much money they are getting back. Of course, it's futile to point out that a) you're getting your own money back after being deprived of the use of it through threat of force and b) you are absoluelty NOT getting back dollar for dollar in value for what was taken from you involuntarily to begin with.

Wrong. Most people receiving refunds get them as a result of refundable credits (EIC or Additional Child Tax Credit). In fact, many people have zero tax liability (no taxable income afer exemptions and standard deduction) and still received $5,000 refunds. 

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 17:53 | 5621422 Dingleberry
Dingleberry's picture

Correct.

Obamacrats are not used to apying for anything.

They get cash for votes.

Not cash "back".

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 17:56 | 5621428 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

How am I wrong? I never stated a quantity or percentage of the taxdonkeys that fit this profile, only that it is.

 

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 17:37 | 5621368 OldPhart
OldPhart's picture

I purposely add a bit to the withholding so I have a small lump coming to me.  That lump makes a bulk purchase of metal.

I keep no cash in the bank.  And have the withholding in case of burglery.

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 23:19 | 5621837 boattrash
boattrash's picture

Fines, penalties, and repayments should be paid with metals, specifically, copper jacketed lead.

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 20:58 | 5621959 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

Understanding what and why you are doing something is one thing. Apathy (or willful ignorance - you make the call) is a whole different enchilada.

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 17:43 | 5621387 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

The "refund" is a psychological conditioning gimmick to jigger the Pavlovian salivation response.

Surreptitious punishment every pay period for working, then a reward pellet once a year for filing a tax return.

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 19:35 | 5621707 MontgomeryScott
MontgomeryScott's picture

It took me over 30 years for this to sink in:

The first year, when I 'filed a return' and I got a few hundred dollars in the form of a check, I thought it was kind of cool (until I looked at the overall 'withholding' shit that included several thousand dollars in 'other' things, like F>I>C>A> and S>S> 'withholding). The 'official' inflation rate was 10.2% that year, and Carter was trying to negotiate with those 'Iranian Radicals' for the release of the 'hostages'; and what the hell did I KNOW that S>S> was just a Ponzi scheme? The 'FEDERAL INSURANCE CONTRIBUTORS' ACT' forces people who FILE TAX RETURNS to insure FEDERAL EMPLOYEES? FEDERAL EMPLOYEES are NOT required to pay SOCIAL SECURITY taxes? The age of death (on inception) was 62, but the age at which S>S> could be collected was 65; as calculated by the 'actuarials' who set up this scheme?

3.2 million voters who signed up for Obamacare after once again trusting the bullshit lies of the same 'government' that ensured everyone that they were killing babies in the incubators and that JFK's head could be seen moving violently FORWARD and that the WMD's would be found in Iraq and that the S>S> number would be a SECRET number that would NEVER be used for IDENTIFICATION are once again going to PAY THE TAXMAN; and be HAPPY doing it. H and R BLOCK will ensure their 'compliance', of course.

In a nation of 320 million, 3.2 million is only 1%. NO, not THAT '1%'.

 

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 16:37 | 5621183 bonin006
bonin006's picture

getting back the interest free loan some people give to the IRS

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 16:39 | 5621194 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

Stupid is as Stupid does.

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 16:43 | 5621205 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

Hold on now, will this impact my Earned Income Tax Credit? You can clearly tell by the name that I earned it ... Well gotta bag these rocks.

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 16:46 | 5621210 Moe Hamhead
Moe Hamhead's picture

Wares mi subidee?/

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 19:41 | 5621731 MontgomeryScott
MontgomeryScott's picture

You forgot the obligatory 'hash-tag' thingie.

#

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 17:13 | 5621308 Ballin D
Ballin D's picture

There is a penalty for not deducting enough from your paycheck.

Im young and havent committed investing my savings so I havent bothered testing that line yet but I read about one some time in the last year.

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 17:47 | 5621395 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Agreed, but in this environment you'd get $1.15 on that $1,500 you put in a "savings" account.

It's almost like they've got us corraled to harvest our wool, oh wait...

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 19:54 | 5621773 MontgomeryScott
MontgomeryScott's picture

You forgot the 'fees', like the $.05 per check written, and the $5.00 per month for having less than $5,000.00 in your account per month, and the $1.50 per transfer, and the ATM balance request fee of $.50 per request, and the $3.50 per year accounting fee, and...

Of course, you are liable for the $1.15 you earned last year on the 'interest'. You will, of course, file the proper forms when submitting your 2014 'returns'... April 15 is the ULTIMATE CUTOFF DATE; at which time, interest will be accrued at the rate of 22.5% per fucking MONTH (along with fees and fines).

Thank you for your time, "EBWORTHEN".

Your local Federal Reserve Banking System Branch (Mr. Janet Yellen, presiding Chairman)

(Our corporate motto 'To Serve Man' has a dual meaning, you know...)

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 16:37 | 5621185 Dre4dwolf
Dre4dwolf's picture

A tax refund:

When someone robs you, and gives you back 1/10th of what they stole from you to make you feel like "shucks they aint so bad, they could of stole the whole thing"

The only reason we have tax refunds is probably because some Nazi shrink thought up some theory about how to make people feel good after you rob them.

 

if a thief broke into your house and stole all your shit, but then sent you some of it back in the mail next month, first you would feel sad/angry, then later when you get "some" of your shit back, you are all of the sudden all like "o shit my tv just showed up on my doorstep!"

Its all oppressive psychology to entrance the population of useful idiots.

When its that easy to mind-fuck people, can you blame them for doing it?????

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 17:19 | 5621319 prymythirdeye
prymythirdeye's picture

Love your shit Dre4dwolf.  You are one of the few worth coming here for.

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 23:25 | 5622371 August
August's picture

>>>When its that easy to mind-fuck people, can you blame them for doing it?????

I'm naive enough to believe that mind-fucking a population of morons is "wrong", even though that has been standard procedure since the agricultural surplus was invented.

I am committed, though, to not making it easy for them to mind-fuck me.

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 23:58 | 5622449 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

This is the theory behind slot machines. People will eventually walk away if it never pays but if it occasionally spits back a pittance, they will keep dumping money into it. This was based on a study made with rats pushing a button to get a food reward. Unfortunately this also shows the sophistication of human beings.

Miffed

Mon, 01/05/2015 - 04:46 | 5622801 Kobe Beef
Kobe Beef's picture

John Calhoun reports another series of rat behavioral studies highly applicable to two-legged mammals. 

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 16:52 | 5621234 yellowsub
yellowsub's picture

To many Americans, it's the largest lump sum of money that they receive that they are looking forward to spend because it's "free".

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 16:34 | 5621174 Barnaby
Barnaby's picture

The IRS is a collection agency. Give them nothing and make them fight for your money. It's their burden.

2015: the year we stop surrendering.

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 16:50 | 5621228 Bioscale
Bioscale's picture

...writing bold comments on ZH.

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 17:09 | 5621287 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

If people are applying for these subsidies are low income, does anyone here think the IRS will actually pursue them for any monies?  So what is their risk in fraud? The IRS goes after those with the most to lose. Business owners. Everything is about appearances and leverage. They will downplay the fraud to preserve the programs image, just like they refused to prosecute bankers to preserve our confidence in the thieving banks.

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 18:48 | 5621576 PoliticalRefuge...
PoliticalRefugeefromCalif.'s picture

..well there is always indentured servitude to fall back on at a future date.

debtor prisons anyone??

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 16:35 | 5621175 Dre4dwolf
Dre4dwolf's picture

The IRS isn't even ours... its a foreign collection agency for foreign owned banks.... this country is paying tribute to some foreign banking scumbags . . .  for no reason.

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 16:37 | 5621184 Barnaby
Barnaby's picture

Well, not for nothing. We've never been free, 1776 was a scam and everything we pay is interest on the fees to colonize the land.

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 16:48 | 5621223 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

You forget the secret one world government

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 18:56 | 5621595 Dre4dwolf
Dre4dwolf's picture

The one world government fell apart the moment Russia and China decided not to play ball.

The NWO at this point is an aborted fetus.... when the Euro falls apart and the economic union in Europe crumbles it will be the final nail in the coffin for the NWO.

 

The NWO will be reduced to a collapsed American empire cannibalizing its own people to maintain some semblance of power and control over its own bloated military and nuclear arsenal and whatever remains of the British monarchy after half of them get prosecuted for child smuggling and abuse in the palace.

We are circling the NWO toilet as we speak. . . its weeks now, not years or months tick tock motherfuckers.

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 20:07 | 5621802 MontgomeryScott
MontgomeryScott's picture

NO.

It's wishful thinking.

The One World Government is made up of those who are FOMENTING the CHAOS that you believe will be able to STOP them. China and Russia (the puppet-governments therein) are merely players in the larger construct.

The NWO isn't made up of ONLY the 'Anglo-American Empire'. The ZOG government (there) has been working on the implosion of the Constitutional Republic since its' inception; and is now using it for the totality of its' end goal.

You are buying the lie, and drinking the Kool-aid; if you think otherwise.

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 17:16 | 5621312 prymythirdeye
prymythirdeye's picture

Yes, yes!  Great points guys.  Why can't we have more discussion on these topics?  I respect you both, wise fellows!

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 16:36 | 5621179 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

So who else is betting on a Supreme Court overturn of Federal exchange subsidies this June (effectively killing Obamacare)?  Yeah, me neither.

 

 

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 16:48 | 5621218 jwoop66
jwoop66's picture

About as much as I'm betting on the "r's" from fighting it; or any of barry's bullshit, this year.

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 16:48 | 5621219 Barnaby
Barnaby's picture

I'm healthy, I quit insurance and stored up $400 per month into a fund I call an HSA. We didn't see a doctor all year, so now we have $4800 to spend for 2015. Catastrophic insurance at $15/mo via NRA.

Best yet? Cash costs 1/3 less for anything from our local hospital.

Paying it forward with a big "fuck you" upstream. Fuck modern medicine. Get healthy and get in control.

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 17:05 | 5621277 Max Cynical
Max Cynical's picture

"Catastrophic insurance at $15/mo via NRA"

Seriously?

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 17:11 | 5621294 Barnaby
Barnaby's picture

Yes, if I cut off my leg with my chainsaw, they'll pay for my hospital time, careflight, etc. If I get kicked by a horse, same. If my boiler blows up, covered. It's called gap and it's rated by risk.

If I pulped my left hand in 2005 in a mower accident I might be rated to $66 per month, right now, but I think you catch my drift.

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 18:39 | 5621545 Doctor Faustus
Doctor Faustus's picture

Gap insurance implies you already have health insurance. So, which is it? A stand-alone plan or a supplemental plan? And if it's a supplemental plan, how much does your primary health insurance plan cost you?

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 20:14 | 5621831 MontgomeryScott
MontgomeryScott's picture

What's 'insurance'?

The Mafia representative comes in to your restaurant, and declares that it would be a terrible thing if your business were to suffer an 'unplanned-for loss' (while his boys, with guns, break a few plates in the kitchen).

I like the scheme of 'life insurance', the best. YOU pay in, but never get any returns (because, after you die, you don't see anything).

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 17:11 | 5621289 new game
new game's picture

barnaby-exactly what i am doing- your numbers are spot on. about five thousand dollars in my savings(per year) that would go to some unhealthy bastard that feels entitled to live like a fool. was at the food court at mall of merica y'day and my god of hell, i saw enuf human pigs eating shit for food to scare one to run to the coop(bought an ice cream cone-hehe). fucken - eh, ha...

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 17:15 | 5621310 Doctor Faustus
Doctor Faustus's picture

Just curious, where did you find catastrophic health insurance on the NRA website that's ACA-compliant for $15/month? They link to ehealthinsurance.com and it sure as hell ain't $15/month!

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 17:48 | 5621404 Barnaby
Barnaby's picture

Hybrid HIP from Northwest Mutual. Shop based on your health. Control your prices based on risk.

Then, once you have a HSA "Bank," add services like chiropractic or acupuncture and pay from your bank. Watch your health grow as your care bank blossoms.

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 18:05 | 5621455 Doctor Faustus
Doctor Faustus's picture

I've got the HSA part down--have in excess of $6K. It's the ACA-compliant health plan I find hard to believe. With a deductible of $12,600, I'm not planning on using my high-deductible insurance plan unless it is indeed a catastrophe. However, it still costs the wife and I nearly $700 a month (versus the $300/mo we were paying prior to the ACA). However, since the criminal syndicate known as the U.S. Government insists I have an ACA-compliant health plan, it just so happens my reported and verifiable income is just $40K which "entitles" me to a subsidy (gah, I hate that word) that ends up costing me nothing.

 

Ain't life in the United States of Absurdity grand? 

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 21:08 | 5621982 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

."Catastrophic insurance at $15/mo via NRA"

Ooops - my offer musta been shredder fodder.

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 16:39 | 5621188 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

Thats what hapens when you allow healthcare to become a TAX !!!!!!!

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 17:03 | 5621242 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

No, this is the inevitable outcome of monetizing the relative physiological state of an alleged sentient species. For-profit medicine is right up there with usury in my book.

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 23:42 | 5622413 August
August's picture

>>>For-profit medicine is right up there with usury in my book.

For those life-and-limb threatening, you-have-no-choice "purchase decisions", I can support state-controlled, state-subsidized medical care.

For routine health maintenance, I fail to see how running one's health care through either a government program. or private insurance company, adds any value to the system.

There's no really ethical problem with "for profit" medicine, if the service providers aren't in the business of mind-fucking a population of morons; unfortunately, given the current mental and behavioral standards in the USA, that's exactly the business they're in....

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 17:29 | 5621348 negative rates
negative rates's picture

Well they had to pass it so we could find out what's (in it). It was game set match before they even passed it.

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 16:41 | 5621200 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Its supposed to be Frrrrreeeeee!!!!

Pajamas Boy said so!!!!!

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 16:45 | 5621211 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

Everybody shut up and EAT YOUR PEAS!

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 16:51 | 5621238 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

No cake for you!

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 16:54 | 5621244 nmewn
nmewn's picture

We Grubered some folks.

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 17:05 | 5621278 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

But, the bar is so low....

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 17:45 | 5621391 analyzer_66
analyzer_66's picture

How can you have any pudding

if you dont eat your meat ?

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 18:00 | 5621439 dochood
dochood's picture

[In loud, screaming, Cockney accent...]  BECAUSE IN NGLAN, PUDDIN' IS MAID OUTTA MEAT!!!

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 16:44 | 5621202 Moe Hamhead
Moe Hamhead's picture

some folks are goin' to be piss'd!

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 16:43 | 5621204 i_call_you_my_base
i_call_you_my_base's picture

Because everyone knows that your income never changes. Stupid.

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 16:45 | 5621207 papaswamp
papaswamp's picture

Half over paid...classic govt. the govt giveth and the govt taketh away....

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 16:49 | 5621220 nmewn
nmewn's picture

"While the Affordable Care Act fines those who don't have health insurance,..."

I still can't get over it, let that sink in you idiot fucking progs, what kind of authoritarian state does shit like this?

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 16:56 | 5621253 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

Cue Lee Greenwood.

 

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 17:01 | 5621265 yochananmichael
yochananmichael's picture

is that Zappa?

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 17:03 | 5621273 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

yes.

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 17:07 | 5621284 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Faux reelz.

Only the fucking "progressive" mind could blur the distinction between public & private and have the state come down on the side of a private corporation against the people.

Its a tax!...paid to a corporation.

No, its really a penalty, paid to the government for not engaging in a business transaction.

So in essence we have the fucking IRS collecting non-payments on behalf of corporations?

I swear to God I could scream.

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 17:13 | 5621300 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

."I swear to God I could scream."

Make it a primal - you know, so you get the max glandular dump into the old bloodstream. Yeah baby. Firearms are not recommended.

Mon, 01/05/2015 - 05:52 | 5622840 The9thDoctor
The9thDoctor's picture

Only the fucking "progressive" mind could blur the distinction between public & private and have the state come down on the side of a private corporation against the people.

There's nothing "progressive" about Obamacare/Romneycare.  It's a scam where we are forced at the barrel of a gun to buy health insurance that is more costly than a home mortgage payment per month or else get our wages garnished by the IRS.

Progressives advocate Universal Health Care; not this "tax" ruled Constitutional by "conservative" Chief Justice Roberts.

Notice how the Republicans have done NOTHING to repeal Obamacare?  Because the Republicans LOVE it.  They all stood behind Romney, and to this day I still see Romney bumper stickers all over trucks on the highways.  Even though Romneycare was the prototype for Obamacare.

The insurance companies stocks skyrocket, and the working class who can barely afford a home mortgage, now have health insurance that costs even more than that per month.

The gap between rich and poor will get even wider with this gimmick.

Mon, 01/05/2015 - 07:59 | 5622960 nmewn
nmewn's picture

"There's nothing "progressive" about Obamacare/Romneycare."

One is state, the other is national. Its a lot easier to leave a state than a country.

"Progressives advocate Universal Health Care;..."

Paid for by being taxed?

"...not this "tax" ruled Constitutional by "conservative" Chief Justice Roberts.
Along with every other "progressive" judge.

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 18:54 | 5621597 kchrisc
kchrisc's picture

"what kind of authoritarian state does shit like this?"

One where most, if not all, insurance, large hospital, and big pharma companies, along with the junctions of power, are owned or controlled by the Amongst.

The banksters need to repay us.

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 19:15 | 5621665 silverer
silverer's picture

Thanks for that. It's rather sobering, but what everyone needs to focus on. And ten years from now, if the progs and Hillary can somehow avoid nuclear war, we'll be wondering why so few paid attention.

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 16:50 | 5621224 CoastalCowboy
CoastalCowboy's picture

I was trying to explain this concept to my niece who was bragging about her subsidized plan and failed.

Suckas!!!!!!

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 16:49 | 5621226 _SILENCER
_SILENCER's picture

I'd really truly love to unfuck myself from my social security number.

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 16:50 | 5621231 Handful of Dust
Handful of Dust's picture

How do people who have no jobs, no income, no permanet address "refund" the IRS?

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 16:54 | 5621249 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

True. Also ask yourself, why pay taxes since the Government creates it's own money? No need to pay tax really.

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 18:53 | 5621594 PoliticalRefuge...
PoliticalRefugeefromCalif.'s picture

It's all about holding the leash, not walking the dog.

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 17:00 | 5621263 yochananmichael
yochananmichael's picture

doing community service for starters.

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 19:07 | 5621637 silverer
silverer's picture

With no job(s) or income, you don't owe taxes. This one's easy. Do you work? If so, then YOU pay. Have a nice day.

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 16:52 | 5621235 alexmark2013
alexmark2013's picture
Jonathan Gruber, the scandal-plagued Obamacare architect who said that the public was too dumb to understand the problems with Obamacare, is back in the news with a statement that is even more controversial. http://investmentwatchblog.com/jonathan-gruber-the-scandal-plagued-obamacare-architect-who-said-that-the-public-was-too-dumb-to-understand-the-problems-with-obamacare-is-back-in-the-news-with-a-statement-that-is-even-more-controv/
Sun, 01/04/2015 - 16:53 | 5621245 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

Classic. Governing by decree, worry about how we afford it later. 

 

Let’s get the people covered and then let’s do cost control.

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 19:07 | 5621634 silverer
silverer's picture

That was step eight out of thirteen I believe. Step eight says "the government borrows money with no clear plan of how to pay it back". The article said that no country in history ever recovered after proceeding through step eight. The article was about, of course, the decline of empire.

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 21:51 | 5622092 The Merovingian
The Merovingian's picture

It puts the lotion in the basket or it gets the hose again.

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 16:57 | 5621254 cnmcdee
cnmcdee's picture

hahhahah!! Longest title!! Winner winner chicken dinner!

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 17:37 | 5621371 Tenshin Headache
Tenshin Headache's picture

What a Gruber that guy is.

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 17:51 | 5621412 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

He is the "intelligence" behind much of progressive thought. Goes back to Freud, and his belief in our animal spirits ruling us and the need for the elite to "manage" us towards a better world. There is nothing new here. We are either left to our own devices, which obviously does not offer nearly enough money and power for these folks, or we do it their way. We value what they tell us to value and buy what they tell us to buy....all for our own good of course. Maybe it is all for the best, but I don't care. I would rather live the life of a bird in the wild than one in a coup. We are not livestock and we don't judge our lives based on how many years and months we survive. We live for ourselves and what life offers us in its challenges, victories and defeats. Otherwise what is the point, waiting on the netflix movie to come in the mail?

Maybe we were sheep all along and simply dreamed we were something more. Maybe the Matrix will take us back....

Mon, 01/05/2015 - 05:58 | 5622847 The9thDoctor
The9thDoctor's picture

Goes back to Freud, and his belief in our animal spirits ruling us and the need for the elite to "manage" us towards a better world.

Where did Freud say that?  Do you have a book or a page number to reference?

He would be a big critic of such a thing.

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 19:43 | 5621742 holdbuysell
holdbuysell's picture

Jonathan Gruber of MIT:

How can someone so smart be so #$%! stupid.

Mon, 01/05/2015 - 00:03 | 5622461 LibertarianMenace
LibertarianMenace's picture

"Smart" people are the only ones that can lay a genuine claim to the title. Despite their intelligence, they often "know" so much that just isn't so.

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 16:52 | 5621240 Bear
Bear's picture

Isn't any 'subsidy' income? Why isn't a low income earner required to pay a tax on the 'subsidy' income given by .gov?

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 19:02 | 5621622 silverer
silverer's picture

It is. Your health care plan you get from your business is now taxed as income (added to your regular income amount). That's what I heard.

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 20:30 | 5621871 EscondidoSurfer
EscondidoSurfer's picture

Not so.

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 23:08 | 5622305 The Duke Of Fro...
The Duke Of Frontenac's picture

Not yet.

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 16:53 | 5621246 stant
stant's picture

What happens with Obama care in a deflationary collapse?

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 17:59 | 5621435 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

Many complained of healthcare costs forcing them into bankruptcy. Now thanks to a progressive government we can all share in the experience of our healthcare costs dominating our lives....equally, except for the rich of course....the rich are really never part of this conversation because after all they are the ruling elite.

I wish I were rich, not because of all the cool toys, but because I could allow my thoughts to be dominated by the plight of the little people, those of inferior class and intelligence to share in my glory, making policy from on high that accomplishes little but to make myself feel better about myself, and generally crushing those I'm so inclined to help.

Oh, the shame of unintended consequences!

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 16:55 | 5621250 Pantalone
Pantalone's picture

Bankster Error In Your Favor.  Go Directly To Jail Anyway. 

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 17:01 | 5621266 mrdenis
mrdenis's picture

We overpaid some folks ...........

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 17:04 | 5621271 yochananmichael
yochananmichael's picture

put every single federal employee, especially IRS on obamacare now!

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 17:04 | 5621276 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

i get the feeling NO ONE still read what was in it !!!

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 17:30 | 5621359 negative rates
negative rates's picture

Well someone has to be responsible for the chit that comes out of washington so I hope for the politicians sake, there is. 

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 17:08 | 5621285 insanelysane
insanelysane's picture

When I first got married wifey bought into the whole refund thing.  Showed her the match and I make sure I work so we owe something at tax time.  Now I show her how much we paid in already and then how much more we "owe" them.  She is always incensed.

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 17:18 | 5621316 Emergency Ward
Emergency Ward's picture

Sounds like they need some sort of "ACA Penalty Relief, Tax Credit and Reimbursment Act ".

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 19:03 | 5621620 PoliticalRefuge...
PoliticalRefugeefromCalif.'s picture

Haha.. no way, they spent good money getting everyone possible guilty of a felony.. not going to let that slip through the old fingers.

It's not like they need the votes any longer..

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 17:18 | 5621317 Bill of Rights
Bill of Rights's picture

We fucked some people in the ass and they didn't even know it.

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 17:32 | 5621364 negative rates
negative rates's picture

But why did they bend over for him is what I want to know.

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 17:43 | 5621389 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

To pick up the penny?

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 17:25 | 5621338 B2u
B2u's picture

Best action I ever took was to move to the tropics.  I don't give a rat's ass about Obamacare.  

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 17:33 | 5621361 Catullus
Catullus's picture

Fearless prediction: a whole fuck ton of people will get their tax refund taken from them. Which means no spring check that 40% of the country banks on. Car sales are going to be bad this spring.

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 17:44 | 5621385 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

So, short Nike?

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 17:56 | 5621427 Barnaby
Barnaby's picture

Missiles or sneakers? Because my response is wildly divergent.

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 20:29 | 5621870 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

don't they both have shwoosh?

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 20:52 | 5621938 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

"We de-refunded some folks."

Mon, 01/05/2015 - 07:46 | 5622942 Refuse-Resist
Refuse-Resist's picture

People who get refunds are idiots. They are over paying and giving the .gov interest free loans. What a country.

Try explaining that to people and watch as their eyes glaze over and they mutter something about tin foil.

I haven't gotten a refund in 15 years. But I did get some ocare subsidies this year.

If I got too much subsidy. but don't have a refund (and currently owe tax) then what the actual fuck are they going to do about it?

Print more money is what they'll do, because that's what they always do.

And our purchasing power (of the currency we must work to attain) will continue to be incrementally destroyed by special people, some call them the tribe, who have exclusive rights to print with no effort what the rest of us must sweat to obtain.

It's bullshit and it won't stop until that basic fact is changed.

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 19:01 | 5621465 ThroxxOfVron
ThroxxOfVron's picture

The Government 'overpaid' the Insurance Companies, NOT the Taxpayers!

The Insurance Companies took the money, may not have paid for ANY 'healthcare' -may have spent the money on fancy buildings, outrageous managment compensation, stock buybacks, etc.; -and now the taxpayers are on the hook to the Government for having overpaid the Insurance Companies.

Remember: the ACA explicitly GUARANTEES that FOR PROFIT Insurance Companies are profitable: the Insurers may price in a hefty 20% profit margin on their plans without any restraint from the Government; -not that anyone actually expects the Government to root out any excessive profits hidden by accounting legerdermain or outright gouging and fraud.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/brucejapsen/2013/10/26/despite-glitches-obam...

http://www.cnbc.com/id/102152031

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 18:15 | 5621478 pudge94
pudge94's picture

Over/under Feburary 1st ZH posts a story (with video) of someone at a tax prep service rioting over a reduced refund/"I HAVE TO PAY?!?" due to Obamacare.

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 18:41 | 5621559 kchrisc
kchrisc's picture

Mandated healthcare insurance is not in the Constitution and in fact the 10th says:

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.  

To get around the Constitution's twice stated prohibition against non-apportioned direct taxes, the 16th. amendment was added, and it says:

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.

So since mandated healthcare insurance is not "income" it cannot be a Constitutional tax and since it is not also a power delegated to the US government in the Constitution, it is Unconstitutional and null-and-void. An American, not US subject.

The banksters need to repay us.

 

Easier to hold their feet to the fire now, than to hold them down in the guillotine later.

Mon, 01/05/2015 - 06:10 | 5622856 The9thDoctor
The9thDoctor's picture

Unfortunately our CONstitution allows 5 out of the 9 Supreme Court justices to rule what is constitutional or not.  ACA was ruled Constitutional as a "tax" by conservative Chief Justice Roberts.

Until people protest these insurance companies, expect more long train of abuses.

Next we will be forced to buy life insurance or be taxed by the IRS, we will be forced to buy flood insurance or be taxed by the IRS, we will be forced to buy car insurance even if you don't own a car or be taxed by the IRS.  There will be no limit to what insurance companies will force you to buy at rates higher than home mortgage payments.  It will eventually bankrupt the middle class and the only thing left of this country will be tent cities and massive prisons to house all of the citizens who aren't compliant with these mandates while the elite live in armored compounds.

This is the "endgame".

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 18:55 | 5621599 silverer
silverer's picture

What's left of the middle class and below are about to find out what that "extra straw" about to be placed on their back really weighs. Happy New Year.

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 18:59 | 5621613 Hail Spode
Hail Spode's picture

But we have already counted the subsidies as boosting our GDP figures.

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 19:05 | 5621630 PoliticalRefuge...
PoliticalRefugeefromCalif.'s picture

Don't worry, they will make it up on incarceration..

.. incarceration- that's part of the new GDP formula right?

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 19:12 | 5621650 Bumbu Sauce
Bumbu Sauce's picture

Enjoy that shit sandwich you ignotrant fucksticks that supported this monstrosity.

I hope you and everyone you love suffer immeasurably under this law.

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 19:14 | 5621662 homiegot
homiegot's picture

That's almost half. Some folks be lying.

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 19:27 | 5621690 Bumbu Sauce
Bumbu Sauce's picture

We Grubered some folks.

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 19:30 | 5621697 seek
seek's picture

Nice that they waited until after people voted to take the money back. Every single one of those that went to the polls that had a subsidy thought they were being helped. Surprise, motherfuckers, you're getting screwed with the rest of us.

 

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 19:43 | 5621713 ThroxxOfVron
ThroxxOfVron's picture

THIS IS BULLSHIT.

The Government 'overpaid' Insurance Companies, NOT Taxpayers!

Checks were NOT cut to Taxpayers; payments were sent to Insurance Companies.

Why doens't the Government demand the funds back from the Insurance Companies, that did not deserve the funds, directly?

This is a scam to force Taxpayers to pay for Govenment malfeasance engineered by lying Politicians attempting to fool desperate primarily underclass Voters into propping a dysfunctional system that would otherwise collapse and be properly reformed.

IF the Government overpays a Contractor and desires a refund -is it the responsibility of the other Customers of that Contractor to pay back to the Government in lieu of the Contractor?

The Insurance Companies have the money: the Taxpayers do not.

The Insurance Companies should be forced to pay back the ill gotten funds and deal directly with their Customers where pricing and invoicing are concerned -without getting the goddamned IRS of all entities involved in this mess.

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 20:51 | 5621933 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

"I robbed some folks."

Mon, 01/05/2015 - 07:49 | 5622947 Refuse-Resist
Refuse-Resist's picture

This time s a fucking million, hell why not a trillion.

 

THe subisidy never went to me. It went straight to fucking blue cross (who crucifies their 'customers) becuase they doubled my health insurance rate from $400/mo to $800/month. That $600 in subsidy check went straight into the coffers of Blue Cross.

 

That's where the money is.  Not in my goddamn pocket.

Mon, 01/05/2015 - 15:33 | 5624866 Bankster Kibble
Bankster Kibble's picture

But the program was set up to keep insurance companies in business, so they will be the last to pay back anything.

 

There will be howling beginning February, when the new forms come out.

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 20:14 | 5621830 Homey Da Clown
Homey Da Clown's picture

If you like your IRS audit, you can keep your IRS audit

 

Is there anything this idiot Obama does that isn't completetly fucked up?

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 20:29 | 5621868 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

If there is, I wouldn't enumerate them here, FFS.

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 20:40 | 5621900 RichardParker
RichardParker's picture

If you like your subsidies, you can keep your subsidies.

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 20:50 | 5621931 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

If you like Totalitarianism, you can keep your Totalitarianism.

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 21:02 | 5621969 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

I know I sound like a broken record, but, we're gonna need moar ammo.

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