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Curious Charlie Carnage?
Just a few random thoughts on Charlie....................
I never can quite understand why these crack S.W.A.T teams don't strategically hold off for 24-48 hours so as to exhaust the terrorists and attempt to gas them out, or at the very least, equipped with the latest military grade night vision, aim to catch them off guard overnight. Instead, they choose to impetuously storm the building by barging and charging, which virtually assures that hostages are also killed during the ensuing mayhem?
One would assume the pros know what they're doing, but it sure as hell seems questionable. C'mon now, slowly mechanically raising a shop's street level security gate, are you kidding me??? You can't be serious! What ever happened to the element of surprise, isn't that like terrorist manhunt school 101?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating that we negotiate with perpetrators, it's just that I would much rather see these crazed craven characters effectively dealt with via the most severe of interrogation techniques, and only then summarily executed, so that at least we stand a fighting chance to find out who and what was really behind them.........and certainly the hostages spared at all costs.
I mean once they have these scumbags completely cornered with thousands of expert anti terrorist police securely surrounding the perimeter, what's the big rush to go in there guns a blazing.
Seriously, these crazed undisciplined young terrorist couldn't stay awake for days on end, yet the expert S.W.A.T teams can, as they would rotate shifts. Just seems so ill-considered and outright reckless when innocent hostages are involved.
The end result of the special forces' rash actions:
A) Lose the opportunity to effectively interrogate them to ascertain who's really behind this.
B) Make them martyrs and heroes for the Jihadist cause.
C) The cold blooded terrorists suffer a painless death.
D) Spared execution in the public square to demean them after an expeditious Int'l Tribunal.
Bravo!
All seems rather short sighted, and patently barbarous to sacrifice the hostages so readily.
My best guess is that the order came from the top, as Hollande wanted to appear like a tough guy, since the public widely views him as an ineffective weak president, not to mention that his strongest political opponent, Le Pen, is surging in the polls. In case you're unaware, she's a fierce nationalist who's anti immigration, and wants to dump the Euro.
Moreover, dead guys can't tell you who really put them up to the job. Maybe, the CIA and Mossad like it that way? Seriously makes you wonder. Any particular reason why these rabid half-grown rascals seem to always end up dead on the spot, nearly every time, and then we learn nothing substantive about them afterwards?
Remember when withering old man Osama Bin Laden, the most wanted terrorist in history, was surrounded by elite Navy Seals, promptly gunned down, and then quietly dumped out at sea for religious reasons.................hmmm, sure he was. Would have been nice to ask him a few questions. Oh that's right, he was originally a CIA operative helping us out in the crucial hills of Afghanistan when it was the Russians turn to secure the poppy fields.
I suppose The Military/Terror Industrial Complex needs an excuse to keep the war machine in full force? Is that it? Who really knows what's behind all of this malignant mayhem, I certainly no longer trust our marionette leaders explanations, there are obviously powerful forces at play behind them without a shred of doubt.
Maybe the civilized West carpet bombing nearly half a million of these desperate beings in undeveloped regions of the world, aimlessly perpetuating needless wars, is not too swift either, blow-back's an angry bitch.....
A very difficult nasty situation is at hand, which clearly requires a new approach.
Surely it would have been wiser for the developed West to have put the nearly $3 trillion USD that was so readily wasted on senseless bloodshed in useless wars of massive slaughter, death, and destruction towards more useful strategic capital initiatives, in order to promote and improve the economic conditions in these barren lands, so that the people might just uplift themselves and become more productive to human civilization.
Perhaps then they would be more inclined to stay home minding their own turf. Instead, we seem hell-bent on further inciting and igniting the fierce flames of fanaticism, ensuring that their youth feel compelled to answer a repugnant and illegitimate religious calling, by terrorizing us in our own cities, via zealous acts of horrific mindless youthful desperation.
Ask yourselves, who and what interests really benefit from this continued abject carnage?
Sure makes one wonder sometimes.....................
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Or maybe his 'exquisitely sensitive nature' made him not want to go along with this latest false flag 'enforcement operation' and he was another one of the many recent very questionable suicides.
Funny how that sort of shit happens all the time.
Ok. Now I can jump on the conspiracy bandwagon.
exaclty who this guy is baiting. move on
and the French offered none. you say yourself 'crazed carnage' and the case can be made they may have saved lives by acting.
we can just agree many of us have gone mad (i include those who allowed the neocons to lead us into this horror) and reason must prevail.
Having lived/worked in the ME, i can only say how difficult it is to reason w/ some of these 'mutawa's' even sitting in a peaceful majlis smoking sheesha. Fanaticism is the enemy. whether it be neocon or the blowback we are now suffering
That's true..............but that defeats the purpose of holding hostages doesn't it. Seems that the authorities forced the issue here and recklessly sacrifice the hostages........IMO anyways.
What was the big rush to storm the shop, and why not make a more startegic effort to at the very least surprise them?
"What was the big rush to storm the shop, and why not make a more strategic effort to at the very least surprise them? "
because "return to normality" is faster, this way. It might sound coldblooded, but remember that it's an executive decision, at the end in the hands of what in earlier times was called the Minister of Police
and his job is... keeping the peace. after such an attack, a double siege with half of the nation's eyes glued to the televisions, gazes drinking blood... plenty of bad dreams
storming the thing is a way to say: "don't take hostages, it won't help you". further, hostages killed in the raid decrease the claim to martyrhood of the hostage takers
it's not an easy job, being the head of the police in such a situation. whatever you do will be easy to criticise. this one decided to have a fast end, and a quick return to normality
the complete opposite of it would have been to allow them to escape, perhaps in a friendly-to-them country. thirty years ago, such things would have been debatable, at least in France
NATO doesn't take hostages and they have all the licenses required.
"What was the big rush to storm the shop, and why not make a more startegic effort to at the very least surprise them?"
Maybe there was no way to surprise them at the location with multiple hostages. We don't know the details of what happened and why the police chose that moment to attempt a rescue. They were dealing with hostages at two sites and raided both simultaneously. That may have limited their options.
Any hostage rescue is dangerous, regardless of when it is attempted.
Certainly the frogs can pump a room full of gas as well as the Russians can a theatre. The problem for the Russians was the number of hostages/terrorists and the volume of the building itself.
You can't exactly starve them. First off because they were in a shop (lol) and also because human body can stay more than 30 days without food and about 4 to 7 days without water. Acutally the feeling of starvation disappears after 48hrs, and instead you have a ligh feeling of euphoria setting in.
Anyways, it's now feasible.
Now of course there's the politic approach and you just can't let it drag for more than a day. These donkeys at the top of the public ladder need results and spotlight; they rely on what the people think. Efficiency and benevolence is the least of their concern.
Not to mention that if it was a false flag, you don't want to leave the evidences behind.
BTW DavidPierre's comment is true, the video shows no blood and no execution. It's blank cartridge, so what the fuck is really happening?
Full Metal Jackets would behave this way. They'll pass through a deer the same way. If you want to kill something while hunting, FMJ's aren't your first choice. That doesn't stop the stores from selling a ton of them. I wonder if they're sold in France, at all? Considering their gun control laws.
Good catch. I meant to say "exhaust" them out, so at to have a better chance at catching them off guard at night perhaps............
Bear in mind there were two simultaneous hostage situations. If it were necessary to go in on one, then they would probably need to go in on both, as the perps were associated and probably in communication with each other. It's always easy to criticise from the sidelines, but those responsible for dealing with these situations have to make critical decisions, and deal with and take responsibility for those that go disastrously wrong. I don't know if these attacks were false flags; if you apply the cui bono rule, they certainly didn't benefit Muslims or Islam. But nevertheless, I don't believe for one minute that the whole security apparatus of state is corrupted down to the most junior people. There has to be a limit to what consiprators can actually pull off.
I think an immediate response with an overwhelming show of force resulting in perp death would be a better deterrence rather then a show trial.
Show Trial?
I would like to see these crazed characters effectively tortured, interrogated and then painfully executed in the public square after a quick Int'l tribunal, so at least we have a chance to find out what and who's really behind them.........and the hostages spared at all costs.
Might be time to be a bit more intelligent about how we go about eradicating this growing threat.
I don't particularly care for these idiots making a statement in court.
This incident shows that taking hostages is a bad idea.
Too bad France doesn't have an active volcano to toss them into.
I also think they erred when Arafat died.
They should have had his burial at sea by strapping his corpse in a wheelchair and rolling it off the deck of the MS Achille Lauro
That (except for the killing) is just a waste of time. They want us dead or converted. Also, we never asked for their help in improving our condition, from 1801 untill today. If not for our oil purchases, they would be just as uncivilised as back then.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Barbary_War
It's actually their oil profits that are funding the Jihad.
www.nevilleawards.com/obama_harvard.shtml
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2445630/posts
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJEvlKKm6og
This is footage of the Charlie Hebdo shootings which has been restricted or taken down from a number of websites. As you will see it contains no blood, gore or graphic violence. It does however punch a major hole in the official story.
JFK to 911 Everything You See Today Is A Rich Man's Trickhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1Qt6a-vaNM
holy fuck you are stupid. What a stupid link...
First video is just the complete one. SGC tries to say something's up but this is not a fake, and suddenly everyone's an expert.
Street location and name of officer are all verifiable. Policeman was killed in action. The details of weapon/blood/bullet entry point are really secondary at this time.
"Everyone's an expert" - that kind of stems from being lied to forever.
No blood, no recoil of the head, no recoil from the AK. Marks appearing on the aspalt from one scene to the next. What is it with the kosher bakery and kosher store? Something's not kosher. I dont claim to know what happened except that we're being lied to for some purpose that will become more plain in the future.
http://removingtheshackles.blogspot.com/2015/01/transpicuous-news-paris-...
The weapon didn’t eject a shell casing...!!!
"As you will see it contains no blood, gore or graphic violence."
News media typically edits out that sort of thing, when they think it is too disturbing to viewers.
Bruno, please take out D, because it shoots out the bottom of your, for the rest righteous thought.
One of the french police officers working on the Charlie Hebdo case has been suicided. In particular, he surveyed the family of one of the victims. He killed himself before completing its report. Helric Fredou âgé de 45 ans.
http://france3-regions.francetvinfo.fr/limousin/2015/01/08/limoges-suici...
Bruno - I am not French but have spent significant time in the country. Your comments will be appreciated if I have misunderstood.
Basically France is a very , very divided society. France has now gotten a good dose of socialism thanks to Hollande and the bottom is falling out of the economy. Affluent French move to Belgium or in many cases you will find rich or just professional individuals living rather in London than in Paris. With punishing tax rates of up to 101% for top "normal" income - no one is interested in working there.
Not that the top politicians are paying those taxes. Their incomes are in large part exempt and stored away in Switzerland and such places.
On the top of socialism you have the islamification of the society. Actually you could say that th ones who are running around shooting up Paris are part of Hollande´s constituency.
Hollande and the socialists themselves really hate large parts of their own society - type doctors and lawyers and such and have for long time been importing islamic proletariat from Maghreb in order to build up voting cattle in the misguided beliefs that they will become loyal and obedient socialist without understanding that muslims are muslims...full stop.
If you ask me if there were deliberate mistakes...no. If you ask me if there may have been a stand-down somewhere in the intelligence...I would say yes. Let Hollande deal with his own voters and look like an even bigger fool he is...very possible.
If I was Jewish (which I´m not) I would move away from France. This will be ugly...
The French (for political reasons) have imported their new voting-cattle proletariat from Maghreb - and this is what they get. There are similarities in other countries in Europe.
I'm with Ludwig on this one.
Whenever I read "Int'l Tribunal", I get my back up. I believe in national sovereignty, and that Int'l Tribunals are for kangaroos.
Also, waiting longer prolongs the media circus, enhancing the quality and quantity of attention that perpetrators have often sought in the first place. It tends to encourage more of the same.
So yeah. But!
First, an Int'l Tribunal is a joke. Still, a public trial is fine.
But what if they were not purely jihadis? What if they were willing to talk and expose their handlers? What if their handlers were CIA?
Oh well, they are dead and we will never know.
so right Ludwig. see his SHOW TRIAL comments.
what part of these murderers had already slaughtered a dozen people, were overheard praying their 'last rites' in preparation for the next slaughter of hostages do you think he misses?
"Do you wish to rise? Begin by descending. You plan a tower that will pierce the clouds? Lay first the foundation of humility."
Saint Augustine
Bruno.
As you said in the article, but needs listing:
E) Innocent hostages consigned to terrorist execution instead of potential rescue later.
“ Why not hold off for 24-48 hours so as to exhaust the terrorists”
There was a constraint due to the other hostage taking
“ which virtually assures that hostages are also killed during the ensuing mayhem.”
No hostage were killed during the assault. The dead hostages had been killed before.
Personally, I think thats consigning the hostages to the will (or fate) of those who have guns pointed at their heads, for no other reason that they were in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Everything then becomes potential.
Potentially, rescuers could barge in and the hostage takers drop their guns not wanting to get a bullet in their heads. Potentially, the rescuers could come in and kill all the hostage takers simply because they can, in that single moment in time, with no questions asked by anyone. Potentially, the hostages (or most of them) could already be dead and the potential is for the rest to be killed in five minutes. Potentially, all could die, including the rescuers.
It is a "waity" decision isn't it? That whoever is in charge at that moment has to make and live with. And the hostages & hostage takers get no say in the matter.
I think I'll order in tonight, not ;-)
Bruno how can "smart guys" like you not see through the "war on terror" for what it is, a scam for global control. You then suggest torture. You are both barbaric and blind.
Agree. Dead terrorists don't talk.
He doesn't see through anything. Blow back my arse. They really did kill those people because the were making cartoons. When you fail to get a grip on that all else is meaningless. Even the French don't deserve that for practising free speech. You could call it blow back for Frenchie practising code pink and muzzie love. Look where it got em.
After perusing ZH for a few years I have to say most here are young punks who probably voted hope and change first time around and are so embarrassed that they come here to vent some of the masked confusion and loyalties, "hence, the fascination with RP"......blaming the po po for shooting the groid while groiding....Hey,,,,,,I am disenchanted with my ole Red party but it doesn't confuse me as to the real solution. Having said that there are a few very knowledgeable and intellects who keep me coming back. Screw all you psuedo progressives.
He doesn't see through anything. Blow back my arse. They really did kill those people because the were making cartoons. When you fail to get a grip on that all else is meaningless. Even the French don't deserve that for practising free speech. You could call it blow back for Frenchie practising code pink and muzzie love. Look where it got em.
After perusing ZH for a few years I have to say most here are young punks who probably voted hope and change first time around and are so embarrassed that they come here to vent some of the masked confusion and loyalties, "hence, the fascination with RP"......blaming the po po for shooting the groid while groiding....Hey,,,,,,I am disenchanted with my ole Red party but it doesn't confuse me as to the real solution. Having said that there are a few very knowledgeable and intellects who keep me coming back. Screw all you psuedo progressives.
He doesn't see through anything. Blow back my arse. They really did kill those people because the were making cartoons. When you fail to get a grip on that all else is meaningless. Even the French don't deserve that for practising free speech. You could call it blow back for Frenchie practising code pink and muzzie love. Look where it got em.
After perusing ZH for a few years I have to say most here are young punks who probably voted hope and change first time around and are so embarrassed that they come here to vent some of the masked confusion and loyalties, "hence, the fascination with RP"......blaming the po po for shooting the groid while groiding....Hey,,,,,,I am disenchanted with my ole Red party but it doesn't confuse me as to the real solution. Having said that there are a few very knowledgeable and intellects who keep me coming back. Screw all you psuedo progressives.
He doesn't see through anything. Blow back my arse. They really did kill those people because the were making cartoons. When you fail to get a grip on that all else is meaningless. Even the French don't deserve that for practising free speech. You could call it blow back for Frenchie practising code pink and muzzie love. Look where it got em.
After perusing ZH for a few years I have to say most here are young punks who probably voted hope and change first time around and are so embarrassed that they come here to vent some of the masked confusion and loyalties, "hence, the fascination with RP"......blaming the po po for shooting the groid while groiding....Hey,,,,,,I am disenchanted with my ole Red party but it doesn't confuse me as to the real solution. Having said that there are a few very knowledgeable and intellects who keep me coming back. Screw all you psuedo progressives.