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More Isolation? Russia, China To Build $240 Billion High-Speed Rail Link
The ongoing 'isolation' of Russia took another turn for the un-isolated-er today when, as Bloomberg reports, China will build a 7,000-kilometer (4,350-mile) high-speed rail link from Beijing to Moscow, at a cost of 1.5 trillion yuan ($242 billion), Beijing’s city government said. The rail-link - which will bring travel time between Beijing and Moscow down from 5 days to 30 hours - signals a 10-year partnership between the two nations and follows the dropping of the French company, Alstom, from the project.
China will build a 7,000-kilometer (4,350-mile) high-speed rail link from Beijing to Moscow, at a cost of 1.5 trillion yuan ($242 billion), Beijing’s city government said on the social networking site Weibo.
The rail line seeks to facilitate travel across Europe and Asia, Beijing’s municipal government said Jan. 21 in a post on Weibo, China’s equivalent of Twitter. The journey from Beijing to Moscow would take “two days” on a route passing through Kazakhstan, the post said.
The proposed rail line comes as Russia’s economy struggles to recover from the fall in the price of crude oil and as relations with the U.S. and Europe deteriorate over the Ukraine conflict, and as China pushes to market its high-speed rail technology internationally.
The rail line was mooted in November, after Russia and China last year agreed on the largest natural-gas supply deal in history. Alexander Misharin, a first vice-president at state-owned OAO Russian Railways, said in a Nov. 18 interview that the plan would cost $60 billion to reach Russia’s border, and would cut the Beijing-Moscow journey from five days to 30 hours.
The link to Beijing would take eight to 10 years to build, Misharin said in November.
* * *
And would enable a new longest rail journey on earth...
World's longest train journey is now the 13,052km between Madrid and Yiwu (China). Takes 21 days. Epic. #GetMeATicket pic.twitter.com/hFPbaLAtfW
— Neil Huggan (@hugan) January 21, 2015
But, as Malaysia Chronicle notes, not everyone's a winner,
The building of the huge project to China Railway High-speed (CRH), a subsidiary of the state-controlled China Railway (CR).
They will work with the local firm Uralvagonzavod after deciding to drop the French company, Alstom, from the project, one of the world’s leading high speed train manufacturers.
* * *
And follows more unisolated-er activity...
In May, after more than a decade of talks, natural-gas exporter OAO Gazprom reached a $400 billion deal with China to build a pipeline and start supplies. Misharin, in the November comments, compared the new transport network to the Suez Canal “in terms of scale and significance.”
Those comments came a month after a delegation to Moscow led by Chinese Premier Li Keqiang signed accords that included high-speed rail cooperation, a three-year 150 billion yuan ($24 billion) local-currency swap deal and a double-taxation treaty.
* * *
Now who's isolated?
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Or you can fly for a fraction of the cost and for less time. More evidence of malinvestment in China.
The Eurasian Cooperation will leave the West in the stone age.
Yeah spending $242bn on a high speed train line is fantastic use of government money. Definitely a sign of "Eurasian" economic intelligence.
China prints money to fund human progress. Unlike the West who prints money to rob from the poor and give to the rich.
Money printing is not zero sum in the East, while it is Zero Sum in the West.
I wish them the best of luck but my gut tells me this will never happen.
It has already happened for the last 20 years. All of it due to government money printing. And it will continue until the West lays in the stone age.
Just wait until they branch that thing off down to Delhi and Mumbai..
That’ll be some real isolation for you.
Better a $242bn railway than a trillion a year wasted on the MIC.
+1000
$240 billion. We spend that on shit every month with nothing to show for it. There was once an age in America (before the age of corruption) when the US could build things like the Panama Canal, transcontinental railway, or rockets to the moon.
Trojan horse project? Rail lines suck for passenger travel but are the gold standard for supporting military advances. German military strategy in Russia during WWII was determine by their rail supply lines.
Yeah, I'd take a transcontinental high speed rail for 240 billion instead of a lost war for +1 trillion any day. There's one thing 'Merica still leads in, and that's malinvestment.
30 hours is too long.
Depends. With well-appointed sleeper cars, dining cars, a lounge. etc. this trip would make my bucket list. We used to be better at this sort of thing. Seems to me that most air travel these days is cattle-car shut-up-we'll-be there-soon.
There is BIG MONEY in this sort of "Train Travel" - THIS will have as much in common with the UK Network SouthEast "Commuter Horror" trains as the First Class lounge in a 747 has with the "Holiday Special" flying "Cattle Trucks" favoured by cut-price charter aviation "providers".
There are THOUSANDS of books aimed at the "Luxury" Train Traveller, and the "Big Name" train services (e.g. Blue Train (South Africa), Settobello (Italy), Orient Express (UK - Venice and onward), even our Ghan and Indian Pacific (Australia) ) are never short of well-paying passengers (even in the tourist "off seasons").
If this is going to be THE World's longest train journey, there will be more than enough paying "Tourism" customers to fill all those seats, before we even start to consider the "Business" Users who may be attracted to the ability to visit population centres en route (something that direct flights cannot provide). Add in the benefit of having railway stations usualle centrally located in towns / cities (unlike air transport hubs), and the advantages over air start to stack up a great deal.
Don't dismiss trains as a modern, efficient, and highly popular mass-transit solution.
It's not the mass transit of people that will justify the cost over the project lifecycle, it the mass transit of goods and services (lower class people) at a substantially lower cost than airfare, and substantially faster and more reliable than by road.
Some time back I posted a link to a powerpoint deck that I had received earlier and which had some horrifying images of the current state of roads in the region (I think the powerpoint was ironically published on the web by a French firm). I wonder if Flanby is regretting pissing of the Russians and planting his head so far up Obama's ass. The French banks got fucked for billions by the US, their shipbuilders are now an unreliable laughing stock, and their train builders are getting cut out of deals they should have had... must be more of those "costs" Obama keeps blathering about.
Edit: found my previous post (and the PPT link): http://www.fichier-pps.fr/2010/06/05/670kc72/
If they get a better ROI by carrying people, then it will be people they carry.
However, once the line's completed, there will surely be sufficient capacity for other users, not necessarily high-speed, so we could see passenger HST as the "Priority user" with freight and other services as a lower priority user, "shunted" into lower-speed sections to permit uninterrupted HST passenger operation.
It wouldn't add that much to the overall initial cost to have duplex operation over the more heavily used sections of line, and maybe use the extra revenue to provide continuous facility improvement (as "real" businesses traditionally used to do before the era of Financialisation).
No matter, if they DO manage this achievement (which they most probably will), I'll be definitely getting a ticket - preferably from Beijing to Madrid!!
god I love this site. If they build a high speed rail in the US, it's socialist and evil. If Russia and China do it it's a great investment.
The Sino commies certainly have got the 'Bridge to Nowhere' meme down pat.
I stumbled across this great documentary a while ago. Transsiberian journey by a private train.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NtdmNVNosA
http://www.transsiberian-travel.com/
That's because 7,000km is too long.
Maybe Moscow or Beijing could be relocated instead.
7,000km = 4,350 miles.
4,350 miles in 30 hours = 145mph average. Sounds pretty fast to me. But I'd fly, provided I wasn't restricted to a choice between Aeroflot and China Eastern.
I think there are also China Southern, China Western, Dragon Air, Cathay Pacific ... but there will be no American airlines.
Don't worry, the US won't dare to shoot down Chinese and Russian airliners like it did with Malaysian airlines over the past few months.
the european high speed trains have been travelling at 200mph for years so 145 mph not too hard.
on the line from paris to london after a few minutes you leave paris environs and hit 200mph all the way to the chunnel (tunnel under sea) where it slows to a leisurely 100mph
of course the line has to be designed for high speed with e.g. no tight turns.
Last summer, I flew on Aeroflot from Switzerland to Moscow
& from Moscow to China. It was fine.
I think the idea is that they would have stations along the way.
30 hours is too long.
Not if you're UPS ground. Or I should say DHL
Yes. China is at least creating tangible assets of some value.
What, haven't you heard of the Barack H. Obama Bakersfield to Fresno High Speed Rail Link?
More like -- China has too many ghost cities, so now they will build a ghost railroad.
Based on a response to a question to WinstonChurchill (ZH avatar), this fits right inline.
Consider that if India to China to Russia build hard rail links for trade and transport, then the US Navy (and more broadly the US Military) can't intervene with gunboat diplomacy. The US would have to launch a land war to disrupt trade routes, or expose bomber air craft to the defenses of advanced adversaries.
What our completely retarded Keyan leader is doing is fucking us more ways than we can count as he is pushing all our enemies into a land based trade system independant of the dollar; Russian oil/commodities/advanced technology, Chinese labor/manufacturing, and Indian labor/gold/demand.
These integration projects; gas lines, high speed rail, and such, will prove to be a back bone much like the Interstate system in the US.
Serious shit. It will take years, but the US can't stop it because it doesn't sail.
Regards,
Cooter
brilliant analysis, i think exactly same thing ;)
1) inner lands market and TRADES that cannot be wasted by external events, lead to the process of declarating war in case of territory violation. great position on the chessboard.
2) better a 30h 100% delivery than a 8h plane crash...
3) this move is the most pertinant from months for brics to me.
And thus the Baltic states have exactly zero value to Russia and the idea of Russia invading them is absurd.
Oceania has always been at war with Eurasia.
I think.
Drone meet Rail, Rail meet missile...
Well if they can punch a railway through the Himalayas, I salute them.
Would likely cost less a year than the US Govvy pays in interest on its total borrowing. Good thing we don't just bypass that borrowing at interest scheme and print the shit outright, because THAT would be a boondoggle which would bring down the empire.
Regards,
Cooter
Worse than that, CC. THAT would be the boondoggle which would bring down the contributors. The maggots will get six months of good eating off the carcass of the Empire.
http://ajitvadakayil.blogspot.com/2014/03/hope-rising-capt-ajit-vadakayi...
+100 on that, Manthong.
Land Bridge - from IND-CHN-RUS-REST_OF_EUROPE.
It they build that, the Five-Eyes won't be able to effectively blockade Eurasian Dissenters...
Let's take a look at what the Russians built in the past, to get an idea what they might be able to do in the future.
The Transsiberian railroad is 5772 miles long; longer than the distance from west coast to east coast and back. And you know what? It's electric all the way. Electrification began in 1929 and was completed in 2002, 73 years later. So yes, I believe Russians and Chinese can pull this one off. They are capable of building infrastructure even if it takes multiple generations to do so. Even if the guy who begins the work does not live to see it finished. That's something we are no longer capable of; no US president is going to vote for a project if it takes longer than his term in office.
So yes, the Russians can pull this one off. Now, how long it's going to take, that's anyone's guess.
Silver Short Seller, You are just jealous that the Mulatto Messiah can't even build a high speed line from LA to Vegas.
By the way, with a name like that, I do not expect you to last long on ZH, once your shorts are inevitably crushed. One day, just like in Switzerland, the banksters shorting the AG and AU markets will get obliterated.
Meh when any government builds a high speed train line, it's usually for reaons other than economic ones. Whether it's California or China, the state will always fuck it up. You disagree?
Don't let your experience of the corrupt West cloud your vision. You have not seen civilization until you experience the Eurasian Cooperation.
What I find interesting is Alstrom was booted out, and replaced by a russian firm. Was this in part payback for French sanctions against Russia...Hmmm.
I wonder if Hollande is prepared to issue multi billion dollars refunds and penalties for 2 helicopter carriers that Russia could build for much less.
Of course!
Involving France is a savvy move by Putin.
If France breaks rank with the EU, the USD-EUR-JPY bloc further weakens and the effectiveness of that bloc's monetary policy suffers.
If France toes the line with the west against Russia, it's economy suffers and Russia drives a wedge between the French working class and it's ruling elites, who are clearly aligning with the West to the ruin of the working class.
Hence the West's absolute desparation to overthrow Assad in Syria, build a pipeline and remove Russian leverage as the main Natural Gas suppliers to Europe.
All Russia has to do is:
-Keep Syria/Iran in one piece. Keep Western controlled pipelines from their borders.
-Offer economic cooperation to the West.
The EU will eventually break apart the combination of the above as well as the logical end of the petro-dollar cycling scheme.
Good luck with overthrowing Assad. So far, big fail. The USSA must put boots on the ground, and I don't mean a few more special forces weenies send to educate Al Queda on cutting off heads without arterial spray.
It will work out as effiecently as russias pipelines..............
Incase you Ruskie luvers don't know........
Russia pours mor oil into the arctic sea every year than Macando.....
Research it if you do not believ me.................
WTF does China dump in the oceans................
Why do all their factory ships apply to be in US waters..............
They will fuk this up like everything else because they are corrupt jerks and cannot allow their serf's or nigger's to even work the land.............
They just suk and cannot advance to the US's caliber unless obumer wins another term then all bets R off................
The same shit happens everywhere.
france is old country dying, forget it. as french man i can tell you this country is dying on a bed like old patient in hospital with continue morphin in veins to prevent him to yell.
zero money treasury, 300million euro over 3 years for terrorism ? lol, we won't pass the decade before total crackdown. definitivly, shit start in 2017 with lepen.
so.. kicking out alstom... this dismembered crap close to general electrics ass fucked by siemens... mouahahahahaha
If France is an old contry, what about China f$%^^# moron!
Hollande will have a come to Jesus meeting one day and borrow in Rubles. That will be a hoot.
Napoleon killed all the real men in France, thus their current reputation. I wonder what real French men were like in Napoleon's day ...
Regards,
Cooter
Interestingly, France was the only country that asked its gold back during the Breton Woods era in the 70's.
It is also still the only country in the world that politely and urgently asked the US military to leave the country back in the 60’s.
I also remember that western leaders lost their cojones when the US decided to unilaterally invade Iraq, but France said NO to the almighty.
But stereotypes are good... a bit like China being a communist state...
Would you want to order 100 trains from a French company, pay for them fully, and then hear, "We can't give the trains to you!"?
Here we are. In the Mistral-thread I wrote that will be the most expensive French decision ever.
they do not give a fuck, when you have ( i ) a president saying in MSM 8PM in front 9 million ppl :
" it cost nothing......it is the state that pays......."
you realize that, you have a foot on a triggered mine, and it is too late to flee.
only way to rectify is to cut socialists gift for those brown ppl, but if you do it 30% of the country go down street with machetee... so... as whites are scared as shit, nothing will happen, in terms of change.
europ is a 350 millions ppl with 300 millions whites pussies not wanting a WW3 to clean the table once for all. they like to have brown in ass... fucked up lands that west.
Louisiana purchase?
you are a fucking idiot. high speed rail is an order of magnitude cheaper than flying in a currency unit that actually matters: OIL
I'm pulling for a resurgence of rigid airships.
I'm with you. John McPhee's "The Deltoid Pumpkin Seed"
We could be so much better.
When I was young and stupid I invested in a cargo carrying airship company; CargoLifter. They went bust after the y2k bubble, before they could complete the ship, leaving behind their hangar as the largest enclosed space in the world. It got turned into a theme park. They recently started up again but starting small rather than large.
Despite my better judgement I would totally be up for investing in airships again; Aeroscraft (US) have a flying 1/2 scale (rigid) prototype or maybe HAV (UK) also have a flying prototype which the US army was testing.
Silver Short Seller, re building a high speed train line, I am not sure that the state will always screw it up.
If the bidding is relatively fair, and the contractors are reliable, and the bribes are reasonable (10% or less), then it could work. I used to be a doctrinaire free marke monetarist, but I have subsequently relaxed my views, and maintain more of an open mind.
Maybe they will use some of those treasuries as collateral for the construction loans ... ha!
Regards,
Cooter
Canada built their transcontinental railroad nearly debt free. It created jobs and did not create an oligarchial robber baron class in the process. Only later did they sell it to private owners.
The ghost cities are not that different from war production. It gets money into the hands of workers, who can then spend it. In the path it creates wealth not destruction.
If the cities were built with debt money, which then has a debt instrument holding the population into servitude, then that is a different story. Some of China's land speculation is with private banker credit, other spending is from the State Banks.
So, the ghost cities will have to be deconvoluted to determine the money type. Most American's cannot think outside of the debt paradigm, so they automatically point at the cities and think of it with their own faulty pre-conceived notions.
Goverment has a role. It should be constrained to its role. It should be kept in its box. But, this notion that all government is bad only enables the rent seeking monopolists in our population. High costs most certianly exist in private enterprise. The term "privateer" would not exist if it weren't so.
Rail will speed up movement of goods and people. It can only help their economies.
It is the governments job to insure the commons are in good shape and available to the population at the lowest cost.
Rail infrastructure is inelastic markets. Would it do to have two competing high speed rail lines run side by side?
+1 Good post for a newbie. Welcome to ZH.
Chinamen built Canada's transcontinental railroad nearly debt free.
Fixed.
China invented money printing.
Did the state fuck it up when it built the Interstate Highway system?
Does the cost of a high speed train from LA to Vegas make economic sense?
I can answer that one (I live in Vegas). No.
There is a huge amount of traffic between LA and Vegas...most on friday and sunday nights as the idiots show up to gamble (and pay my taxes, thank you very much).
California has absolutely no incentive to build this....it would be worth it for the casinos to underwrite it (not only can they get the idiots here faster, but they can arrive drunk!) However, the casinos, in an astounding display of nearsightedness, want california to pay for it, since the vast bulk of the distance covered is in CA. Idiots. It will be a lot of talk and a standoff for years, for sure.
By the way, the other problem is logistical. The proper western terminal for such a train would be out in the desert right next to LA...Victorville or someplace equally sexy. However, once you entice the LA folks to get in their car and drive to Victorville, they are unlikely to park and get on a train. The alternative -- taking the train all the way into LA -- begs the question of where? LA is one big town, with no real center. You have a homogenous mass of handle-pullers coming from all over town and thus no central place to pick them up.
LA-Vegas high speed rail - a very silly idea.
There is indeed a main train station in LA (Union Station), but, other points well taken.
Union Station is downtown where nobody lives, has no parking, and is difficult to get to between the hours 7-10am and 3-7pm.
Other than that, it's a great resource.
Many metro trains and buses arrive at Union Station.
The main problem is prices. A train ticket will probably cost $100-150.
Yes, if the price isn't competitive versus 1-2 people driving (vehicle fuel, depreciation, expenses) or is much, much faster on time then it will not work.
again, it would only work if built and heavily subsidized by the casinos. if a train appeared with easy access in LA, and tickets were $5, they could entice more suckers. perhaps even a $100 ticket with coupons worth $100 in handle pulls at subsidizing casinos...?
they won't do it, though. there is a monorail here in Vegas that nobody uses. it was built to go between the convention center and the strip. it SHOULD be free, with so many trains that the wait time is a minute or so, and they could get lots more $$ from the convention visitors. instead, they try to run it as a profit center, charging big bucks for the thrill of the ride. runs empty.
But there is parking on most of the commuter stations in NY and NJ. Newsflash, Buckaroo, people work in downtown NYC, and a lot of them go to work on the train.
Just like people in London, Zurich, and Frankfurt.
You have never been to Los Angeles, have you?
Buckaroo is right-e-o. LA is very unlike east coast cities (I've lived in both). There is no "there" in LA. Nobody who the casinos are interested in take public transportation. If there were a good subway system like NY or even Boston, where it was convenient to swoop to a central station and hop on a train, then this might work, but that just ain't there. It is in the culture there to drive everywhere. Perhaps if they brought high speed rail from Vegas with splits to downtown, orange cty, sf valley, with parking at each it might have a chance, but still not a sure thing.
What's saying that US treasuries not being used for the project? Oh the irony.
This is another step in the new Silk Road project that's been in the works for some time. Don't think those 'ghost cities' were pure malinvestment. If they pull it off thw West is hosed. It is a big "IF".
Those ghost cities are World War 3 preparations. The nuke will go towards populated cities, these ghost cities will stay intact throughout the war as the West is laid to waste.
For years we heard about Chinese “ghost cities”, but the stories that I saw usually mentioned
one (such as Ordos) and just asserted that there were lots of others. Therefore, I was pleased on
10/28/2014 when ZH posted ‘China “Ghost Town Index” – Here are China’s 10 “Ghastliest” Cities’.
Seven of them were places about which I knew nothing, but the list included Lhasa, Sanya, and Jiaxing.
Lhasa is no ghost city: it is the capital of Tibet, and a rapidly growing tourist destination.
A high-speed train line was completed a few years ago, which will help move people,
and goods. It will certainly continue to grow & prosper.
Sanya, also a provincial capital, is China’s Honolulu, and its ‘emptiness’ results from wealthy
people in China wanting to own some property there for retirement or just as an investment.
While a house made of pine in Hawaii or Florida cannot be left empty for years, an
entirely empty condo (with no appliances, fixtures, or even interior doors) can.
Furthermore, there is no property tax, so buying an empty condo is rather like
buying a tangible asset such as gold. It's an inflation hedge.
Jiaxing is an “edge city” near Shanghai rather like Shenzhen near Hong Kong.
Its future growth is assured by the familiar ‘string of pearls’ pattern involving
cities along a rail line or major highway, since it is in the middle of the Shanghai
to Hangzhou corridor where a new highway and a new high-speed railroad
have both been built in the past eight years. Real estate is less expensive there
than in either Shanghai or Hangzhou, but it only takes half-an hour to get
from the new JiaXing train station to the new station in either Shanghai
or Hangzhou. This corridor also includes Sky City with its Eiffel Tower
that is shown in the October 28th article and in earlier articles.
Sky City is between Jiaxing and Hangzhou.
An earlier article about a single ghost city turned out to be about a city near
Suzhou & Wuxi in the similar corridor between Shanghai and Nanjing,
which has its own new high-speed train, new highways, and other
infrastructure improvements.
These ghost city articles ridicule China, but they have a lawyerly tendency
to present only the negatives to please readers eager to hear about
problems in China.
They already are. Europe, for the most part, is a museum economy, a testimony to a glorious past, but no future.
Oh well, history repeats itself. In the 50s of the last century, it was said that Brazil and Mexico will outrun the west; in the 60s and 70s it was Japan, in the 80s the "Four Asian Tigers", in the 90s China, India, Vietnam, East Europe and Russia. Guess what? The world hasn't changed that much and Europe is, despite its serious problems, the largest economy.
It is worth remembering that China had the worlds largest economy for most of the last 2000 years, and Asia has 70% of the worlds population. Europe, relative to Asia, is shrinking every year in terms of total share of world GNP. The trend is definitely not Europes friend.
I've been living in Asia for 22 years (not at the same time, though) and I can assure you that misjudge the alleged dynamic here. China has been falling apart for 10 years before it even took off, the Koreans are in serious trouble, Japan has been brain dead since the late 80s of the last century, India just recorded its lowest growth rate in 13 years. Apple and Amazon are turning more than the entire rest of Asia records as GDP. Believe me, things look very different from your couch.
Your presupposition is that the rear view mirror in the car of empire always predicts the future.
Not really a good argument by any measure.
Instead, look through the windshield and respond to what is happening in front of the car of empire.
Regards,
Cooter
Depends how heavy the shit you want to move is.
I doubt air would work for many things - oil, for example.
It's not just about people.
And thank you logicalman for saying what I signed in to point out!!
There's a whole lot of FREIGHT that cannot be moved via air.
Have to agree with Silver, this seems like a lot of money to make style points. Are there that many people making that trip?
As for Logical Man's comment about it being used for heavy freight. I have only seen pictures of high speed trains moving people. Are there any other cases where high speed trains are being used to move freight?
Hogs and Tanks don't fly very well - with the US trying to tie up the Straits of Malacca, this is a natural response
Washington is costing the US the future of trade in the East
Bingo!
Regards,
Cooter
You seem to imply that the US deserves a piece of the trade in the East. I dont see how US should be involved in relations between other countries.
let's see planes require portable liquid carbon fuels, trains can run on electricity. Trains are also one of the most efficient transport machines. Is this your final answer?
The most effecient transportation that exists. just improving your post. not one of; the most. able to run on coal if necessary. Everything we have except toys and bullshit depends on Railroads.
Technically, the most efficient transportation that exists is the bicycle.
All interesting points. I would bet the big cargo ships are pretty efficient too.
Yes. I recall an article in the '70's that cited research showing that Eddie Merckx, 5x Tour de France champion, put out on average the equivalent power of an 049 model airplane engine. I was a distance cyclist back then, riding from the east bay up to Yosemite Valley every spring. Good times.
Ofcourse it's passenger and freight transportation, sheeple.
What an idiotic comment.
Well, smart guy.
You can't fly millions of tons of materials for any comparable cost.
its replacing an old railway link partly with old steam engines on the Chinese side...
anyhow China is doing well with the railway expansion (bullet trains) I only would have loved a MagLev expansion....
Nope. The rail tickets will be cheaper; and much nicer experience. this is an excellent development. Also my ruble LOng positions are already in profit and I only rolled them oveer to June today. Ha-Ha. "Isolated" Ha-ha. We're isolated with our tribal primitives in Detroit and no money. They're isolated with plenty of Gold, Money, and energy reserves; tch, tch, what a problem.
I suspect you don't know much about how rail works, or what it has done historically to remote regions it passes through.
Besides - sometimes you just want to drink on a train, man.
Yup - on a Russian Stupid jet - never get there
Someday I hope to travel to an industrial nation, like China, and travel on a cross-country bullet train.
SS, from the land of Free Dumb
I would definitely rather sit on a train for 30 hours rather than fly for 7. Unless this is specifically being built for freight, which begs the question why speed is so important, its going to be another example of China building shit the world doesn't need.
Your comments are as stupid as your username.
You think it's cheaper to fly GOODS then move them by rail? This is about trade not tourism.
Hint: It is a lot quicker to send containers by train than by sea.
Only if your plane doesn't get AirMalaysianed during the trip...
Well, good luck airlifting 900,000 tons of steel!
the template...
<some West disparaging leading question here>? Russia, China To <do something here for some made-up sum that sounds impressive>
when you read this shit, you'd think the gas & oil was already flowing, the bullet trains were running, and the ruble was the world's fucking reserve currency and we all rode to work on the backs of unicorns...
and yet, there really is nothing there but bluster, hot air, and many times out-and-out lies & bullshit...
call us when the ribbon cutting ceremonies to open these things up take place, until then who gives a shit
welcome to the new world leaders
you are welcome to join
The Oriental Express.
"orientation express" isn't that better ?
Not to be confused with the Vichy DC train wreck known as The Disoriented Express.
Not a train buff, but I've always wanted to ride on the Venice Simplon Orient Express. This one, if it is ever built during my lifetime, sounds epic. I'd definitely save up for a ride on it. Good luck to them.
Looking at the threads, I guess it takes a certain type of character to sneer at other people's ambitions. Funny thing is, their derision tells me more about them than the subject of their hatred.
sounds like a great idea
will be in line for one of the first tickets.
hope they take gold..
Yes. you are right. The railroad made us what we are today. and it can keep doing it for another 500 years.
"Looking at the threads, I guess it takes a certain type of character to sneer at other people's ambitions. Funny thing is, their derision tells me more about them than the subject of their hatred. "
amen
$50 says Russia and China will finish their rail before California does.
What odds? I might take it at 1000:1, otherwise no way.
I think it might be the Fuckthewest express.
Vineyard Saker covers this and much more on the symbiotic relationship of the two.
A great read:
China - Russia Double Helix:
Blog Here: http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.com/2014/12/vineyard-of-saker-white-paper-...
Filedownload here: https://www.mediafire.com/folder/fpid1fhd6nv59/China_Russia_Double_Helix
Well..building something is a plus. Can't remember the last time anyone built anything except a casino in vegas or slag in a derivative fund. I would be in favor of them if they built a bowling alley in every Russian/Sino home at this point. Only if thier pin setters were of 'Merica decent of course,
Short of that...If they build it into trains and use the same labor...I am on board. Beat my 225+ * 3 bitches!
If Musk was over there he would draw up a plan to build a tube so they could make that journey in 32 seconds....... someday.
This make Mongro sad.
And unhappy too.
Why no stop in Mongo town? Mongo town quiet and lonely. No stop in Mongo town and Mongro come upset.
And angry too.
Mongo can take Transsib to Beijing and then ride highspeed.
Glad they aren't building a train to the USA.
Seems like a great way to move Soldiers, Equipment for War.
Round 1900 we(USA) helped Russia in a War against China, Guarding a New Rail Road North of Harbin Somewhere. But it was a short war. (If I got the facts straight here)
Elon got Musk"a" fuked by Putin. The Russians are rapidly building their space program.
Russia shelved their Space Shuttle, in the EARLY 80'S.
Most people don't realize that technology is very expensive. You might have a wonderful discovery that needs "moth~bolling" until a later date.
Lot's of discoveries aren't feasible yet.
Any comments on "John Wick" vs the "Equalizer"? Both good movies, in my opinion.
They are good movies, indeed.
My first thought was after watching them that something must have been rather scary if both Denzel and Keanu had to be unleashed on the evil Russions.
Thanks for your opinion. Personally,neither one of them really convinced me.
I guess I'm old school/ The Suave savvy articulate spy .
Both show Hollywood working to plant negative Pavlovian seeds about the Russians for the neocons.
Both neocons and Hollywood studio heads being Zios, of course.
Who's stupid? Them building a railroad with the intrest we pay them for money we owe them spent on doodads and geegaws or US?
Maybe they are stupid because "we" just print the paper and call it money. Knowing that, they seem to have been accepting it for a long time too. t
We are all fucking stupid. Why can the whole world not get along??
There's absolutely no way Vlad can secure that proposed "rail line" through Mongolia.
The Mongolians are wonderful "unconquered" people.
when you got yaks & yurts,
who needs stinkin trains anyhoo?
yak yak
How many divisions do the Mongols have now?
Mongolia is alrrady palnning to join eurasian Union . They are very much in Eurasian pocket not usa .
But, but, but...... We have the Amtrack Acela "Express" high speed train. When it ran behind my old shop in Bridgepuertorico CT I swear I could have skataboarded faster than the silly lump.
Building a route from Beijing to Moscow is stupid.
They would get a lot more riders if they built High Speed Rail links to connect together all of their unoccupied "ghost cities".
Oh, wait . . .
"which will bring travel time between Beijing and Moscow down from 5 days to 30 hours"
OK... So they are flying to the Moon and back on their way to Beijing from Moscow. Why not simply fly there in six hours - leave the multi-day trip out of it?
MH17 much?
MH370?
Right.
Regards,
Cooter
my God you're ignorant. When you want to exchange 8,000 Tonnes of Fuel Oil for 12,000 tonnes of Rice and Barley, you don't do it on an airplane.
Grain and oil have a life longer than the current 30 hour journey time. Why build an expensive high speed rail when the conventional one could be modified to give greater capacity? THis is a white elephant for two sinking economies.
HST for the well-paying passengers, "not so HST" for freight. Once the line's built, it can be used for both express passenger, AND freight - maybe even express (high-value) freight.
It won't be "One Train Each Way at One Time" by any means, and the ROI can be invested into capacity improvements at service poinch points (once these become apparent).
The Railway Revolution underpinned the Industrial Revolution. This may well have a just as stimulatory effect on the economies of the new World Leader Nations.
Rail lines are somewhat multi use.
What we are mostly talking about is this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_wagon
A Flat Wagon
It is one type of goods wagon.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goods_wagon
What is interesting here is that DB (Deutsche Bahn) have goods wagons cleared for high speed travel from 160 to 240 km/hr. Now, granted, this probably isn't the double-stacked 60 foot container variety, but it goes to show that freight can move fast.
There really are only a couple of issues. Using electrified track means you might not be able to double stack two full-height containers. This is overcome on non-electrified lines, when trains are carried using diesel locomotives and clearance is good. Ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-stack_rail_transport
And electric locomotives have engines directly geared to the axle, so have speed restrictions. (no gearbox like diesel locomotives) ref: https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100111104500AAMXDdk
Here, an example video. A typical container transport, reputed to travel 1/2 the speed of typical passenger train. So if the passenger train averages about 200km/hr then the freight will average 100km/hr. About as fast as this train. (note the mention of "this train takes priority over all passengers")
http://wn.com/the_reason_why_i_love…high-speed_container_rajdhani…!
FYI In Australia our entire country relies on trucks shifting containers of goods - at 100 km/hr. So the speed is standard IMO. If any railroad from China to Russia is developed, you can bet your bottom dollar that it will carry containers fast - at least 100 km/hr, for a 60 hour or less trip.
Just in case all those links aren't enough - here is a US freight train going fast. Sort of. What is interesting here is that it is double stacked.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-zHPwukDf4
And interestingly, in all of that above, it is mentioned that China has electric double stacked freight trains in operation. So they are already using what would be the gold standard, an electric track that carries double stacked 60 foot containers.
To be specific, re: Why build an expensive high speed rail when the conventional one could be modified to give greater capacity? THis is a white elephant for two sinking economies.
Rarely would a rail project be a white elephant. We have narrow guage rail here in Queensland, and we still get use out of it. Even though it is so useless it really deserves to be pulled up. When the infrastructure is in place, people go to extraordinary lengths to find ways of using it productively.
And why build an expensive high speed rail network? As far as I am aware, this is a greenfields project, with no existing rail line. The 5/6 days figure is travelling on other older tracks, the old route. Considering that the high speed track needs smooth turns, it can't just follow the old track. Now if it did, it would be a regular low-speed track, and unsuitable for passenger transport. Besides, freight is very sensitive to track conditions, so it makes sense to build a new track to get the freight moving as fast as possible - even if this is slower than the passengers can move.
The trans-siberian railway goes in a different direction.
And they aren't just building one track, for one purpose.
According to The Hindu ref: http://www.thehindu.com/news/international/world/china-mulls-7000-km-bullet-train-to-connect-beijing-and-moscow/article6812120.ece
" High-speed railways passing across the Korean Peninsula in Northeast Asia and linking China with West Asia as well as South Asia, are also on the schedule, it said. "
And according to Travellers today ref: http://www.travelerstoday.com/articles/18087/20150122/beijing,moscow,train,high,speed,train,in,the,works,train,to,link,moscow,to,beijing,how,fast,and,big,is,proposed,bullet,train.htm
"Russia was originally planning to commission a high-speed bullet train from Moscow to Kazan. Now, it obviously looks like China has been involved in the plan."
So it seems there is far more afoot than just a plan to link a couple of cities. It it just a part of a variety of rail links proposed and likely to go ahead.
"my God you're ignorant. When you want to exchange 8,000 Tonnes of Fuel Oil for 12,000 tonnes of Rice and Barley, you don't do it on an airplane."
And you actually thought that my comment about flying around the moon was serious. Who is the ignorant one? lol!
There is no need for speeding up freight transportation from five days to roughly one day. 99.9% of what must travel quickly can go by air. Bulk fuel, grain, and cheap Chinese made toys don't have to travel quickly.
lmao
Let everyone consider this to be the next "Space Race."
Going forward, compare the in's and out's of the California high speed rail project between the Bay Area and LA with this project.
It would be more than hilarious and also a real barometer for the new century if China, Inc lays 4,350 miles of track verses California's Keystone Cops 800 miles full build-out.
I am sure in Chinese press the comparison is already in full swing with the Moon Landing (which China is also on the verge of accomplishing).
I guess everyone will have to see how the debt markets feel going forward.
Obscure little tidbit from 2009. > Chinese railroads.
"I didn't mean to write this diary. I was just doing a little checking up on who's who in the Chinese Turkestan (Urumqi - or Wulumuchi in pinyin) rioting, when I came across a mention of new railroad that connects Turkestan to Pakistan via Afghanistan: China rail integrates Afghanistan, Tajikistan, & Pakistan (June 3, 2008). Pursuing that story led to the story about the Aynak copper mine (not on the same railroad line).
Apparently, one of the stories the corporate media doesn't talk much about is that there is an immense amount of railroad building going on in Central Asia. Its not just because there is oil in places you have heard of, like Tajikistan or Uzbekhistan. Its because those railroads will promote Trans-Asia land trade, connecting China directly to Europe via Russia or Iran.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/07/14/753410/-WTF-U-S-troops-guard-Ch...
Maybe this is old news.