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More Isolation? Russia, China To Build $240 Billion High-Speed Rail Link
The ongoing 'isolation' of Russia took another turn for the un-isolated-er today when, as Bloomberg reports, China will build a 7,000-kilometer (4,350-mile) high-speed rail link from Beijing to Moscow, at a cost of 1.5 trillion yuan ($242 billion), Beijing’s city government said. The rail-link - which will bring travel time between Beijing and Moscow down from 5 days to 30 hours - signals a 10-year partnership between the two nations and follows the dropping of the French company, Alstom, from the project.
China will build a 7,000-kilometer (4,350-mile) high-speed rail link from Beijing to Moscow, at a cost of 1.5 trillion yuan ($242 billion), Beijing’s city government said on the social networking site Weibo.
The rail line seeks to facilitate travel across Europe and Asia, Beijing’s municipal government said Jan. 21 in a post on Weibo, China’s equivalent of Twitter. The journey from Beijing to Moscow would take “two days” on a route passing through Kazakhstan, the post said.
The proposed rail line comes as Russia’s economy struggles to recover from the fall in the price of crude oil and as relations with the U.S. and Europe deteriorate over the Ukraine conflict, and as China pushes to market its high-speed rail technology internationally.
The rail line was mooted in November, after Russia and China last year agreed on the largest natural-gas supply deal in history. Alexander Misharin, a first vice-president at state-owned OAO Russian Railways, said in a Nov. 18 interview that the plan would cost $60 billion to reach Russia’s border, and would cut the Beijing-Moscow journey from five days to 30 hours.
The link to Beijing would take eight to 10 years to build, Misharin said in November.
* * *
And would enable a new longest rail journey on earth...
World's longest train journey is now the 13,052km between Madrid and Yiwu (China). Takes 21 days. Epic. #GetMeATicket pic.twitter.com/hFPbaLAtfW
— Neil Huggan (@hugan) January 21, 2015
But, as Malaysia Chronicle notes, not everyone's a winner,
The building of the huge project to China Railway High-speed (CRH), a subsidiary of the state-controlled China Railway (CR).
They will work with the local firm Uralvagonzavod after deciding to drop the French company, Alstom, from the project, one of the world’s leading high speed train manufacturers.
* * *
And follows more unisolated-er activity...
In May, after more than a decade of talks, natural-gas exporter OAO Gazprom reached a $400 billion deal with China to build a pipeline and start supplies. Misharin, in the November comments, compared the new transport network to the Suez Canal “in terms of scale and significance.”
Those comments came a month after a delegation to Moscow led by Chinese Premier Li Keqiang signed accords that included high-speed rail cooperation, a three-year 150 billion yuan ($24 billion) local-currency swap deal and a double-taxation treaty.
* * *
Now who's isolated?
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US Spending meant convincing countries to buy US LT Treasuries... That might be why.
China 2002 = $95 B, then 2013 = $1,272 B, Today $1250 B
You underestimate China's diligence and patience.
Look at the Great Wall of China.
All sections of the Great Wall of China, including some barely visible ruins of the first wall and remains of walls built by successive dynasties, were built over a period of more than 2000 years (8th century BC – 17th century AD).
In the US they can barely keep a project together for a year.
The Great Wall was a huge waste of human resources, the bridge to nowhere of its time.
Killed millions and never accomplished the original purpose.
The publicized small part what is now reconstructed for nationalistic pride should rather serve as a reminder of human stupidity, not unlike the Egyptian pyramids.
The Great Wall kept out invading "less civilized" tribes.
It kept out the Huns. Huns is a perverted term, which originally meant a group of people who were highly neanderthalic. Cro Magnon like Han Chinese wanted to keep out Neanderthalics from the steppes of Russia and the Caucasus.
The Wall worked, and allowed Han tribes to consolidate. So, Huns were never Germans, it was just applied to them as propaganda during WW1. Han's today are chinese, japanese and koreans.
The highest percentage neanderthalics with upwards of 30% DNA difference from CroMagnon, are Khazars, then followed by Semites in Judea, Arabia and other points middle east. Indo Europeans and Hans are about 3% neanderthal admixture. Irish and Finnish probably have lowest percentage admixture.
Khazars were a different looking race given their genetics, but it is now much more diluted with Cro-Magnon's. Blood line religion, along the female line, has kept the gene type especially relevant to Judaics. The highly in-group and agressive behavior of Judaics over history may be attributable to their genetics. This paranoia of the Chinese was well founded. The Huns were probably mongoloid looking, but also muscular and hairy with Neanderthalic genes.
along the female line, the Ashk. are pre Indo European European - like the Basques and Gaels...
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/09/science/ashkenazi-origins-may-be-with-...
http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2013/131008/ncomms3543/full/ncomms3543.html
Which *may* explain why the Irish and Scots actually get some "Jewish" diseases - the origin was pre Indo, and despite the Celtic overlay, the people of far northwestern Europe, including the Basques, kept the most pre-Indo blood. Giant megaliths all over the British Isles indicate old, complex cultures unlikely to have totally disappeared during Celtic and Germanic "invasions."
But also see:
http://geneticliteracyproject.org/2013/10/08/ashkenazi-jewish-women-desc...
The Khazar thing is definitely largely true - it's just kinda overblown. What is definitely true is that today's Ashkenazi Jews are only remotely related to the ancient Canaanites/Israelites - and genetically, there is zero question Palestinian natives [Arabized does not mean of only Arab genetics - they are a mix of the Arabs and the indigigeous people] - have a better "genetic" claim to Palestine, and Israel, then Russian or German or American Jews.
But the Jews have far more money, power, influence, and a set of myths billions take seriously in some form or another.
Yea, but Ghengis Khan was a stud. He humped THOUSANDS of wimmenz and through tracing DNA his seed is part of millions and millions of peeps over there. He da man.
lmao
First of all, the Great Wall of China runs perpendicular to Mongolia. It was erected to thwart enemies from the west.
Um, which wall do you mean, YC?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Great_Wall_of_China
This may just be a way for China to put people to work, like they did when they built all those empty cities.
Similarly, the US hired a bunch of Chinese "coolies" in the 1800s to build our transcontinental RR. Hey maby China will return the favor and hire thousands of 'Merican coolies to build their choo-choo. How ironic would that be?
'melican coolies too fat
'
'
'
Can't they just pick up the phone?
•?•
V-V
China just found a way to spend off a bunch of its reserve dollars....
Besides, such a railway project has great symbolic value, signifying the deeper cultural, economic and strategic cooperation between Russia-China. Such a railway will quickly spawn other more pragmatic joint projects.
That'salotta steel
Either my computer or ZH site are compromised. When I click on a thumbs up on comments that are negative about the railway, a thumbs down happened at the same time.
No, you are probably just running Windows 8.1. I hate this OS. It is almost as bad as Windows ME. WIN7 is better. My Apple never crashes but they are so expensive. Reboot.
Linux mint 17 is free and your computer will run twice as fast. Crash,? virus ? what's that ? oh, yeah, that's what MicroShit customers have.
True story.
I run Win7 myself and I like it. What microsoft should have done with Win8 is simply to make a faster Win7.
.....maybe do away with the two fucking .nsa files too. Just sayin.
I second Linux Mint 17. Then Mozilla Firefox, Addblock Plus, Ghostery and Noscript. I'm on a Windoze 7 box now, it's "tolerable" (barely) but it ain't no Linux Mint, that's for sure.
Why don't they just move Moscow to Vladivostok. You could throw a stone into downtown Beijing, Pyongyang, Seoul and Tokyo. The other plus is that if a Napoleon/Hitler/NATO type tried invading from the West (to spend Xmas in New Moscow) they would need segways at least.
The Trans-Siberian railway is on my bucket list of things to do before I die. Mostly I want to go to Vladivostok. My Russian wife says, "You are fucking insane to want to go there!". She says it is dangerous there and western Russians will not go there. She does not want to go. She said, "How to call this place, your 'wild west'?". Other Russians concur by saying that it is not a tourist city. Perfect! I don't want to go to Hawaii or some tourist trap like that. I want to go where I willl learn something and as long as they have vodka I'm all in.
I do think that 242 billion fiats is quite a low number for this proposed rail system and I doubt that it will happen. If it does, it will cost at least twenty times as much as what they say it will. What do they need it for exactly? To import Chinee into Russia? That won't happen.
This is a good way to get rid of their U.S. Treasuries and invest the money into something that will, in the long run, be productive.
True. But look a little closer. 5500 miles is a long way to go to lay new track. The Trans-Siberian rail line was bad enough to do with all of extensions it currently has. If they do it would be a the feat of the 21st century thus far. But I don't see why they need to do it. It looks like goods are already being transported in an efficient manner. I don't see why that would change. I believe that the rail tracks they already have are sufficient for trade. Listen to me, it is all posturing and this proposed rail line will never happen. If you want to buy bonds on that rail track then go ahead and do so.
Let us be clear here. The Chinee have already been stealing Russian timber. Those nations really don't get along as well it seems. You are in living in a dream world that you made up for yourself that you want to believe in it but it is not true. The Russian people do not want foreigners coming into their country. If you noticed, how much money was Russia going to put forth for this rail line? Yeah, nothing. The real issue is that the chinnee need resources and they are already stealing them from Russia.
Russia could care less about UST and the chinee, well, that is their own fault. There will not be a high-speed rail line between Moscow and Beijing. Russians do not like foreigners. End of story. You got suckered in on that one.
Peace
The ultimate goal is not a stronger bond between China and Russia, it's Europe that they want.
This is the dumbest fucking idea ever. Trains, which I ride every day, are for densely populated areas where flying is not practical. Most of Russia is sparsely populated, so high speed rail makes absolutely no sense.
Unless they foresee a strong increase in commercial transactions between the two countries, in which case the train could provide freight and transportation of goods.
And they are not obliged to use high speed train all the time BTW
High speed rail also functions perfectly as Freight Rail; did you ever try to transfer 8,000 Tonnes of Barley on an airplane ? God you're pathetic.
lmao
It's the development and infrastructure that will develop. Just as towns develop along interstate highways.
was the American WEst heavily populated when the built the trains, or did the trains engender development.
Jesus Christ, man.
In Siberia, it is often a case of "build it and they will come." That is why Russia finally finished that highway that linked Vladivostok with Moscow. And why USA pushed train construction through wastelands to link both coasts. I grew up in a town that would not have existed but for the tracks running through the desert.
The Russians are looking long term, and the growth will really get started in the next 50 years. But they need the infrastructure in place first, and the ability to lock up capital with a long-term repayment schedule.
industrial transportation ..
and intrepid travelers..
@ Spungo, Obviously, you have never left Buttfuck, Ohio.
Your ignorance is blistering
This project will dramatically change the population distribution of EurAsia. With the railroad will come infrastructure and commercial/industrial development along its 4,000+ mile expanse. After terrain, water will be the greatest factor in determining where the track will be laid, and where the transportation hubs and powerstations will be built.
It seems that it would be easier to build, and quicker to complete, if this proposed hi-speed railroad linked up with Russia's existing Trans Siberian railroad on the other side of Mongolia. The existing rail lines of Trans Siberia could facilitate the delivery of supplies and equipment along the proposed route for a hi-speed railway..
But that would cut out Kazakhstan. I am not sure how much that should be a consideration to either Chinese or Russian interests.
"We should also anticipate further Chinese efforts to enlist Russia military cooperation, not only in offsetting US power in the Pacific, but also in seeking diversionary efforts toward Europe. We must help China understand that a closer, more assertive alignment with Russia will provoke the United States and our allies into a response. "
-Don't Wait For The Next War, General Wesley K. Clark, 2014
provoking the ussa has become a real sport these days, Clark. or haven't you noticed. lol
T here is no response. All they can do is fumble-fuck their way down the shit hole after a couple of more circles around the drain.
There is response. Don't forget Ukraine.
more precisely, Suicidal Operations in Ukraine.
The aim is to draw Russia into a war with US and NATO. So far it ain't worked yet.
"They will work with the local firm Uralvagonzavod after deciding to drop the French company, Alstom, from the project, one of the world’s leading high speed train manufacturers."
1st the Mistrals and now this. Hollande you are an american whore. bend over, that's it.
It's just so wonderful being any American Puppet; err, ally; yeah, ally. Nato. Yeah, that's what we need more Nato. ???
Friend!
What about them apples?
And then there's those Rafales.
Boeing took away planes from a subsidiary of Aeroflot. Russian plane manufacturers don't produce enough planes yet.
So, it's beneficial to build a net of fast trains.
Both building it, neither taking care of it.
Dropping Alstrom was expected. An agreement with a French company has no value.
Politics and economics aside - this is pretty cool and ambitious. They should build some casinos along the route. And let you smoke cigars in your own cabin.
More ObamaFail - Russia is not US enemy - Barry Islam is
The retired general explains why China is the biggest obstacle ever in the history of the American Empire.
“In the financial crisis of 2008 and its aftermath, China saw the United States as a failing system, its government unable to manage its politics or its economy, and vulnerable to being replaced as the world’s leader.
... The deeper strategic challenge for the United States… is to deal with the more fundamental challenge to the global architecture of trade, law, and peaceful resolution of dispute that the United States and its allies created after World War II. China’s strategic rise to global power - patient, nuanced, and far-sighted - implicitly threatens all of this…. China’s strategy will be to seek structures and relationships that support its value of Communist Party rule and its declared policy of nonintervention in foreign states. The ascendancy of Chinese self-interest as an organizing principle would mean a fundamental weakening of Western institutions, the rule of law, and other Western values, and perhaps their replacement with a more traditional, Beijing-centric approach.
… Shanghai will [be] becoming increasingly powerful in global banking. US influence with the United Nations, the International Monetary Fund, and the world Bank may shrink in significance, increasingly reflecting China’s priorities and interests, or these institutions may be replaced by emerging institutions which more expressly recognize Chinese self-interest."
— Don’t Wait for the Next War, General Wesley K. Clark, 2014
Isn´t it sweet how they care for the whole world?
And of course the ´western values´ like war, bribing, blackmailing, torturing...
History shows the West is always full of shit.
Fuck american hegemony .
Fuck american hegemony .
Some people note flying by plane is faster.
Next time you hear on the news O'Hara is snowed over and all flights cancelled, you might wish to reconsider.
Where is O'Hara? Is that in some country I have not been too yet? Just asking.
There are Three Airports, big ones in Chicago, O'Hara is one. Not sure how many small airports...
Yep, Scarlet O'Hara International Airport.
"Some people note flying by plane is faster."
But, but, but...... willl anyone fondle my ballsac on a train? That's a huge(no pun intended) benny for Flying in the Land of da free.
Good lord.
Seriously guys. If you're going to spend $240 billion. At least replace the 18th century technology of rail with "packetized" transport. Personal Rapid Transport (PRT). Works for people and (palletized) cargo.
Please, will the obtuse American idiots who comment without thought, please refrain from showing your ignorance.
This railway will enable China to ship across the continent, as opposed to shipping over the oceans & seas, where the US MIC can not fuck with it.
All these moves by Russia & China are very well thought out chess moves with multiple objectives.
Having lived in China, rails are a way of life, as most DO NOT OWN CARS!
Also, there will be many, many stops along this route where there are NO airports.
Also does the fucking word INFRASTRUCTURE ring a bell????
Here is another well thought out move:
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/chemicals-blamed-sperm-decline-190013875.html#...
Germany had similar ideas of a rail line into the middle east, prior to WWI. I'm sure the parrallels are not lost on you.
This rail will link cheap labour, raw materials and energy to consumers in Europe in exchange for technology. And the U.S. cannot do a thing about it.
It does many things.
-In China, half of households now own cars. if you lived there, you would know that traffic is terrible in all cities larger than a village, now.
-Many travel larger distances by train because aircraft have very poor on-time records in China.
-Travel by auto is very expensive because of the toll fees, trains are cheaper and much faster
-Aircraft are faster - if they leave on time
-This line will permit land based shipping to Europe
-This line will remove oil and fuel uncertainty for aircraft and ships. If electricity is still used, this train will be able to move freight from Europe to China
-Tourism. I would happily pay for a 2 day trip across the Eurasian Continent. Sounds like a great trip, and not too expensive. China charges o.40 Yuan per km or 7000 x .4 = 2800 Yuan 2nd class seat, no sleeper, for the trip. First class, Business class, Special Class, sleeper cabins, of course, would be more and your meals.
-With a train you see the country up close and not from 10k metres. Sure, it takes longer, but the legroom makes up for that.
-China gets to keep its HSR programs running and building. Anyone with Engineering knowledge knows that once you send the workers home, the intellectual ability disappears as though never there. Saturn V, F-1, F-2, and so on.
--Lastly as so many have pointed out, China will be able to freight products to Europe and there is nothing the USA military will be able to do about it as Mongolia is a client state of China and Kazakhstan that of Russia.
There is indeed "thalasso" in thalassocracy, another take is more that there are a lot of means to produce electricity and mostly none to produce kerozene.
Truth, or closer, is that it is just another kenesian type of stimulus /missinvestment and a mean to give russian oligarchs some reasons to be loyal when NATO sanctions are hurting their bottom lines.
It is going to cost a lot more than 240 billions, if it is ever finished, then it is going to cost billions to maintain:
foremost it is a missinvestment and I would bet that the ecologic cost will be higher than burning the gaz on planes...
It's high speed.
Not many stops.
Pork meet barrel.
How many people will buy a full distance ticket?
most of them will travell just few hundert km, means 3 or 4 hours (4 hours would be already almost 1000km).
http://www.icenews.is/2015/01/20/chinese-company-wins-rights-to-greenlan...
Chinese firm General Nice Development has won the rights to take on a Greenland-based iron ore contract after British London Mining went bankrupt.
Nuuk announced that it had transferred the licence to the Chinese firm after London Mining was unable to fulfil a three-decade commitment it had made to the scheme.
The UK company won the rights to the project in 2013 but went bankrupt the following year after the Ebola epidemic in Sierra Leone hit operations hard. Its assets were then taken over by General Nice Group, a Hong Kong-based mining company with an annual turnover in excess of US$18bn.
They going to name this the John Galt Line?
A quarter of a trillion on a fucking train. Idiots.
Obviously they should have spent the money baiing out baanks instead. Or funding a war somewhere irrelevant?
The trillions of dollars the Fed has thrown at Wall Street, were obviously, better ways to spend the money. (Sarc).
This train will make it easier to ship Russian women to China.
I faintly remember a cutsie campaign promise of high speed rail on the east coast. The incumbent wasnt informed that those rail lines are owned by the people that own him and you cant just slap a new track down. But it sounded shovel ready and the eager dupes ate it up like Buffett on a vanilla ice cream cone.
the priority is freight.
the travellers are a secondary isue.
the travellers will be cheaper off, if they use a plane.
Agreed, this is going to be a great freight line that could make a lot of cargo ships obsolete. Mongolia and Kazakhstan will be pleased to use the line, also.
I would not give up on passenger traffic altogether. People use the Trans-Siberia rail line now in spite of the availability of air travel. They will probably use this new, faster train even more.
This is the sort of income-producing infrastructure deal that I expect from Putin. He has been organizing construction projects across Russia for years - rail, airports, shipping, LNG ports, pipelines, highways, etc. Graft has not taken all the oil money, a lot has gone into concrete and steel.
that rail line must be bombed before it is started as it is obviously a preemptive preparation for war with the west.
For those of you that think this train is a wonderful idea, is it because: