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This Is What Gold Does In A Currency Crisis, Euro Edition
Submitted by John Rubino via Dollar Collapse blog,
Yesterday the European Central Bank acknowledged that the currency it manages is being sucked into a deflationary vortex. It responded in the usual way with, in effect, a massive devaluation. Eurozone citizens have also responded predictably, by converting their unbacked, make-believe, soon-to-be-worth-a-lot-less paper money into something tangible. They’re bidding gold up dramatically.
So after falling hard in 2013 and treading water for most of 2014, the euro price of gold has gone parabolic in the space of a couple of months. This sudden rather than gradual awakening is the standard pattern for a currency crisis, mainly because it takes a long time for most people to figure out their government is clueless and/or lying. But once they do figure it out, they act quickly.
Europe’s gold chart isn’t as dramatic as Russia’s (see it here) because Europe doesn’t depend on oil exports and the euro, while dropping versus the dollar, isn’t yet in free-fall. But with another trillion euros due to hit the market in the coming year, and a series of currency union-threatening political crises in the pipeline, the flight to safety could easily become a stampede.
Europe and Russia, meanwhile aren’t the only countries with incipient currency crises. Here’s gold in Canadian dollars:
Just to be clear, this isn’t a prediction about the immediate future, but an attempt to illustrate the nature of gold. It behaves this way in crises because it is sound money which can’t be created in infinite quantities by panicked central banks as can euros, Canadian dollars and all other fiat currencies. These charts illustrate what happens when this difference starts to matter.
Right now, the fear is country-specific. Europeans start to distrust their government and shift to gold, without necessarily questioning foundational concepts like big, activist government and central bank management of fiat currencies. They still assume that the euro would be fine if managed correctly.
The next stage will begin when enough local currencies blow up to make people realize that the problem isn’t with specific governments or national forms of money, but with the idea of fiat currency itself. When that happens the global gold chart will look like Europe’s — but with more zeros.
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Nothing to see here. Move along please.
Why did it bother with the round trip to $1800 ?
as I understand it, gold overshoots its real value when its bought in a panic and then pulls back to its real value, but the last few years smacks of paper manipulation of the gold price downwards. Its been reported on ZH many many times.
coming soon to the $
Give the date or remain silent.
nobody over here is running to buy gold. Gold just remains pretty stable versus the us$, so it rises in EUR terms. that being said, lots of people may wish to have bought here 5-10 years from now.
It seems that here in China a lot of gold is being swallowed up by the market, but on a per capita basis it is still pretty small--not much more than 1 gram per year per person. Although it is easily available in local branches of banks, the smallest bars tend to be 20 g, and the workers at the bank are astonished that I want to buy the stuff (all they can talk about is the importance of buying real estate as a means of securing your future). I would conclude that although a lot of gold is being bought in China, it is being bought by relatively few people.
The biggest of the recent changes in gold (in non-US currencies) can really be viewed as an increase in US dollar more than an increase in the US dollar price of gold. http://worldcomplex.blogspot.co.uk/2015/01/near-term-struggle-for-gold.h...
and the workers at the bank are astonished that I want to buy the stuff (all they can talk about is the importance of buying real estate as a means of securing your future).
Muppetry is a worldwide phenomenon
CHECK OUT The CFTC COTS Report ... Massive GOLD Paper Selling By COMMERCIALS !
Report As Of This Tuesday Data.
Commercials Added Over 40000 Contracts NET SHORT !!!
http://www.cftc.gov/dea/futures/deacmxsf.htm
talk about parabolic...the U.S. dollar chart looks exactly the same, currently just under 95! It hasn't been this high since 2003. That shows you how badly the currencies the dollar is weighted against are tanking right now.
But paper gold and silver are still holding strong levels here near 1300 and 18. Something's going to have to collapse soon, ay?
Fuck it all though...at this point there is nothing anyone can do to stop this insanity except prepare themselves, their families, and friends. Keep stacking this cheap phyzz, keep stacking all other essentials (guns, ammo, food, water, other gear and supplies, etc.), and do what you can to try and wake a few more people up.
The gold move in dollar terms has been truly MASSIVE.
So far China and Europe have kept things together pretty well, but, a propery panic in China or the Greeks dumping the Euro could change things in a quick hurry.
Switzerland has dumped the euro.
Why would anyone hold the euro?
Below 1.0 by end of month?
You are here => O (Central Banks Black Hole of debt)..
This is the event horizon right before we cross into the point of no return - not even light can escape..
Ah yes - the barbaric relic . . .
-30-
this is what it feels like
https://www.youtube.com/watch?x-yt-cl=84503534&x-yt-ts=1421914688&v=naMv...
Was just researching how much debt has been denominated iin euros and it is a truly stupendous number.
If this currency collapses how will they raise money in anything other than dollars?
Euro - The Final Countdown
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcJ-wNmazHQ
@Burning
Cracks are already here in Chinese property market. Local governments are offering incentives to keep people buying.
China will recover. They don't have a mountain of debt, and they are converting $s into tangibles as fast as they can.
Well 70% of china;s GDP for the last 3 yrs or more has come from money printing so they do have a big fuckin problem too.
"And its gone."
What? Printed GDP is not the same as real GDP?
IS that an authorized view?
1.3 billion people, their may not be enough tangibles to keep them in line..
Yep ,agree on all points but no need to stock up on water? just make your own
The bank people wouldn't be entirely wrong about real estate, the question would be in the timing. The time to buy is when the money flows out to better opportunities and prices drop to reflect a more realistic intrinsic value.
The alternate opportunities for prudent money don't exist today and with banks propping up prices by holding inventory, a case can be made that right now, real estate is not the best investment.
Gold, on the other hand, is at fire sale pricing and if you believe the current con game can't last forever, gold would the best way to back that bet.
I hold both. My timing could have been better but it was a long way from being the worst. The main thing is having what you need when you need it.
@ mickeyman
You said, "The biggest of the recent changes in gold (in non-US currencies) can really be viewed as an increase in US dollar more than an increase in the US dollar price of gold."
POG at am London fix, on 2/1/15, was $1,184.25 USD. Today the pm fix was $1,294.74 USD. This is a change of +9.33% in three weeks. While the USD has certainly gained against other currencies, this is an annual change of more than +120%.
Clearly the POG has increased in USD terms, and you do a disservice by suggesting this is a non-USD phenomenon.
It depends somewhat on your timeframe. On August 15, pog was $1296 US, and USD was at 81.424. Earlier today USD was at 94.994, and gold was $1294.75
The most recent fireworks have had gold and USD rising together over the last four weeks, but the fireworks were really beginning before that.
~"Although it is easily available in local branches of banks, the smallest bars tend to be 20 g,..."~
Mickeyman, what sort of premium over spot are the banks charging on the 20g pieces?
The premium was about 3%.
The premiums on silver here are monstrous. In November, you couldn't buy anything (even in the kg size) for under the equivalent of $38 US/oz.
Just remember, this is 'paper' gold but it is a good indication of what people really think about that "barbarous relic" of the past....
Currency windfall tax coming to a euro country near you
It already exists in the U.S. Gains for gold and silver, even the paper version, are taxed at the higher, collectibles, tax rate of 28%. You see the IRS in their infinite wisdom believes that one is buying and selling collectible coins when one buys/sells gold and silver ETFs.
That is not how the collectible tax rate works. It is actually a tax benefit. The collectible rate is the max you will ever pay. Not the minimum. Trading metal short term you still pay normal cap gain taxes. Long term, you can make huge profits and still only pay the collectible rate no matter what tax bracket you end up in.
Absolutely correct fx. This article is bullshit. The hockey stick curve mirrors the decrease in USD/EUR. Nothing to do with europeans buying gold.
Just multiply the price in euros by the exchange rate and you get the price in dollars. Easy.
Well...the price in dollars is up a hundred bucks.
We have zero deflation since the start of QE too.
Is there a CME in Europe?
@ mandel bot... You said, "Nothing to do with europeans buying gold."
I suspect you might come to a different conclusion if you actually looked at volume, in addition to price. Volume is significantly higher over the last couple of weeks than it was for the previous year. This buying can not simply be Chinese and Russians, especially since we all "know" Americans aren't buying gold. Please check your facts.
You can still corner a market in the USA. "Just start buying up all the futures contracts.". If the price goes through the roof that will force actual delivery of the commodity.
I find the whole "renewable credits" thingy really fascinating...basically forcing oil refineries to subsidize ethanol production. The prices have gone through the roof again even though we're swimming in product!
That says to me "just start buying the underlying commodity instead" (corn)...drive the price up to a million bucks a corn cob and "see how many corn cops arrive."
Talk about a bubble!
Korrect. and the increased buying is coming from the institutional investors - this is conviction buying by those in the know. And for those in Europe that dont know yet - one look at the chart above and they will want in the lifeboat, too
"nobody over here is running to buy gold"
REALLY?
Two weeks ago I checked prices on gold over at dollarcollapse.com. The top three dealers including Texas Precious Metals, the highest rated national gold dealer had NO STOCK in US Gold Eagles.(which amazed me).
comparegoldandsilverprices has more dealers.
March 17, 2015.
I just have a bad feeling about that particular date.
Maybe it's just a dentist appointment.
St. Patty drunken boating accident with your PM's.
Me thinks middle of the year - around June/July.
"Give the date of remain silent"
That is an idiotic statement on many levels.
'Me again' bio:
"72 yrs. old. IQ147 SAT800 in 1959. private estate in Hawaii. retired during the first Silver bubble in '79-80. It was an accident; I mean I put my inheritance in Bullion at two to one margin, but I had no idea it was going to go from $4.79 to $25; where I sold out; "too soon". Bought Chrysler Motors for $3 or better in 10,000 share blocks until I had 2 million dollars worth; dumped it at $16; retired to sail around on yachts and study the sexual habits of college girls. I know a lot about markets and history."
These shill trolls are farcical.
Back to masturbating in your grandmother's den between posts while you wait for your pay check from your employer at Trolls-R-Us...you overweight, greasy social misfit.
One week six days a ZH blogger. Who the FUCK are you??
Who the fuck are you? ZH elite? Isn't ZH precisely about "Fuck the elite"? If he/she has something to say, then he/she is welcome to say it. Fucking hypocrite.
From his own bio:
72 yrs. old. IQ147 SAT800 in 1959. private estate in Hawaii. retired during the first Silver bubble in '79-80. It was an accident; I mean I put my inheritance in Bullion at two to one margin, but I had no idea it was going to go from $4.79 to $25; where I sold out; "too soon". Bought Chrysler Motors for $3 or better in 10,000 share blocks until I had 2 million dollars worth; dumped it at $16; retired to sail around on yachts and study the sexual habits of college girls. I know a lot about markets and history.
Key word: "inheritance"
Translation: Never worked a day in his life. And may or may not be an old, creepy stalker. What a guy.
Probably a Tyler or Sac sock puppet trolling along for fun on a Friday.
Certainly not a real poster.
When a graph shows a parabolic rise in the price of gold in the world's backup reserve currency and a troll pokes its head from under the bridge....
a) Ignore it
b) Fight it for fun
c) Talk shit about it like it is a dog
d) all of the above
I like d) all of the above
We've been here at ZH too long to not spot the trolls... Happy Aloha Friday brah!
Is there a parabolic rise with the same data on a logarithmic chart with the Y axis starting at zero? Lies, dammed lies, and statistics. Beware of what can be done with a graph by manipulating the mechanics of the chart to fit one’s view of the world. A 15% change either up or down in a month seems normal in volatile commodity markets dominated by big money traders playing with leverage and zero interest rates. Prices frantically change any reason or no reason at all, just a lot of funny money sloshing around in the markets.
Gonzalo Lira told of a guy in Chile who inherited US$3000 in 1973. Went to a stock broker and put it all in blue-chip stocks (paper, mining, oil, coal, etc.) which were selling for pennies per hundred shares because the economy was collapsing and President Allende was nationalizing industries left and right. Suddenly Allende was dead, the stock market was surging, and this guy has been living off his fortune ever since.
Someday our current political-financial system will get a well-deserved bullet in the head. All you need to become fantastically wealthy is to correctly guess the date!
"Someday our current political-financial system will get a well-deserved bullet in the head."
+100 - You are so right...
Who the FUCK are you??
He's the smartest guy in the room. Just look at his bio. Suprised he needs advice.
Here's some for you Grandpa. Go mix some ammonia and bleach and take a deep breath.
man, I love looking at your avitar. Thanks again.
Tyler, please increase avatar size a few more pixles please.
Had to log on just to upvote you!
And for the bigger pixel size here:
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgrefurl=http://ffffound.com/image/c2ffb6c...
oops
something exploded in my pants.
Thank you! And you also, Bunghole. Truly exceptional.
You're a real "old timer" here at ZH. LOL!! 20 something weeks for you is it?
Oh, dear, I can't breath. sarc/on
Since it was "manipulated" as you say is the current market price irrelevant? You're fired.
"as I understand it, gold overshoots its real value when its bought in a panic"
You analysis is incorrect: People didn't buy it on the way to 1800 because of "panic". They bought it on Monetary fundamentals, when the Fed started with ZIRP and QE. In fact, as ZH reported and ZHers blogged endlessly, people were simply trying to front-run or react to said Fed policies.
What NO one, even the Tylers did not anticipate -- and certainly did not predict -- was that TPTB would manipulate it down to 1200. In fact, as is typical ZH fashion, it gets talked up every time gold has an up swing.
Whatever ZH is good for, predicting PM prices 12 months or even 1 month out is not it. They are not TPTB who manipulate its price to ANY level they want to. Many here have learned the hard way, and some still haven't learned.
Gold is an INSURANCE policy, not a goddam Lottery ticket, as some (gullible fools or desperadoes) are treating it. Holding 10% in bullion (on hand) is smart and prudent hedging. Holding a lot more is not hedging, but speculating. And speculators get everything they deserve -- other than sympathy when a speculative bet doesn't "pan out".
Rubles get me seventeen percent.
That sounds like an important difference.
Plus its backed by T-90 tanks. I hear those things are pretty good.
Moscow is one of the wealthiest Cities in the world. There is no problem getting dollars there and it would seem the dollar has great value there now as well.
Putin is buying gold...thats a confidence builder. Probably won't have any problems raising money in the capital markets now that Europe has been wiped off the map "due to economic sanctions blowback."
ORB is up huge on the news they're using a Russian rocket engine rather than the junky American one.
Europe and Russia are facing huge demographic challenges ahead. Northern Europe has had in place for sometime now very pro-family policies via tax policies for sometime now. Southern Europe has not and that will be the cause of the breakup of the EU. Russia has pro-family policies now but it may be too late their birth to death rate looks bad but not as bad as Germany. Germany has been bull dozing "excess" real-estate to keep their market from tanking from excess inventory. This is a world wide problem no amount of QE can fix it. We need more humans simply to at least replace the ones that are dying off. Japan is doomed, period. Spain and Portugal have more pain ahead of them along with Italy and Greece. There is a human being shortage and no amount of QE will fix it. Men need to be Men, women need to be women and babies need to be born.
I'm sorry to hear "all of Japan is doomed."
I'm writing a screenplay entitled "Japan makes it!" I guess we'll just have to disagree and see who wins out on Broadway.
So I'm assuming that when your screenplay, ['entitled' as you've made a point to describe it], reaches its state of consciousness of being "inherently deserving of privileges"... Broadway will reject it as RADIOACTIVE?
Hot off the presses!
Seriously...Russia produces some pretty cool stuff that can be had for a song if you're a "playa.". GPS systems for automated driving, batteries for solar power systems, turbine engines, you name it.
" Your Government contract only goes so far." So we blow up Russia's currency...and then 25,000 Americans are suddenly fired because "here comes some great stuff at a bargain price!"
Thanx Obama Adminstration!
You don't think they make oil drilling equipment over there? Or diesel generators? How about ten tons of nickel?
These folks who do this stuff definitely are non thinking individuals.
Yer full of shit. No country is "doomed" because it gets off the exponential growth train to infinity. Doom is staying on that train. What you are doing by bailing out is rejecting the current, absurd, status quo. It results in short term pain, and at least the possibility of having a long-term future. Unlike those who remain on the train. Not a bad trade-off, I'd say.
Try thinking 100 years ahead, instead of a month. Then you'll appreciate all those evolutionary dead ends around you, making room for your progeny to survive and prosper. If you have any.
Gold is money, not insurance. Insurance is a derivative financial product. I'm not speculating by holding more more than 10% in gold. The dollar price of gold is being driven, up and down, by speculators(bank cartel?) in the derivatives markets. Still, see how oil is collapsing in dollar and gold oz price. Even in Euro gold oz. price.
Plot it's price since 1971 along with US outstanding debt. It tracks quite nicely the increase in national debt. This is because the dollar is a debt instrument backed by Treasuries, reflecting the tax-ability of the US economy. 1971 US debt was $390B. Gold was 35/oz. Now, US debt is either $18T, or 23$T counting GSE's. 18/.39=46X's. 23/.39=59X's. 59X $35/oz=$2065/oz. 46X $35=$1610. Considering gold dropped by half in the middle of the 1970's bull run, $950/oz is not out of the question.
Anyone who has their retirement in dollar based instruments are the speculators. They are betting that the baby boomers never die and never stop working. They are betting that the US gov. can continue their counterfeiting forever. $1T+ per year is the true 'tell' how far along we are! That's truly a losing bet in the long run.
Americans think oil at a dollar a barrel is expensive.
"real value" is quite an abstraction....desperate selling can always follow panic buying...sure, but "real value" is highly suspect when there is paper gold without a direct correlation to physical.
My other contention is....what we are seeing is not a crisis. It is only a very slight concern about a pending crisis on the minds of a small minority of people. When a real crisis hits...you'll know it, and it won't just be gold, because a real crisis will impact your daily life dramatically.
It's not a commodity (allthough it's derivatives are traded as such) but it is money.
Again more ZeroHedge scaremongering and TOTAL misinformation! There are NO queues (lines) in front of European gold dealers and the big big big majority of Europeans have never heard of gold, nor do they own it. NONE of the places here in Germany (where I live) are reporting shortages, and whenever I buy gold I never have to wait before I'm served.
Euro goldprices rise even as the Dollar goldprice stays the same, simply because gold is priced in Dollars and the Euro is tanking relative to the Dollar.
Here is a good debunk of this ZH nonsence: http://www.bullionbaron.com/2015/01/john-rubino-dollar-collapse-confused...
ZH is becoming more and more the Goldbug National Enquirer for fat, dumb, (trigger)happy gun nuts and preppers who are easily brainwashed (either by ZH or the MSM) because they have ABSOLUTELY NO FUCKING IDEA ABOUT THE REST OF THE WORLD!
I'm so happy I moved most of my assets out of the EuroZone last summer. Good riddance, political currency :)
But I missed buying gold, well, maybe this stabilizes in two weeks or smth.. (wishful thinking)
And you moved it where exactly/
He must have moved it into the US Dollar or US Dollar based assets because the value of the USD is so apolitical and stable, and even more expensive in terms of Euros???
Now that would make perfect sense...buying something when it is high so that you can sell it in a panic when it crashes and take a loss.
Damn. This thread is humorous.
Beforehand I read from somebody, whom claims to be an INTERNATIONAL YACHT SAILING PLAYBOY and boinks young kids who are old enough to be his Great Grandchildren, and, after his brilliant declaration, he also claims to have a 147 IQ...
Then I read the post to which you responded?
Let me see if I have this straight...
This guy is so very typical of the mindset of the investor. If he lives in the USA then why does he invest his capital in Europe in the first place?
(At this point I will not invest in the USA as I see it as a lost cause, but, personally I would invest into my own home before fixing up someone else's.)
Of course he is seeking PROFIT because the typical mindset is to seek profits while setting loyalties and principles aside. Now it "Should be" that one places principles before profits but we know that which should be is just that which is NOT.
And that underlying attitude of greed, of profit seeking, will just ensure that he will lose everything along with the rest of the Globalist investors.
And there are none more deserving.
So I hope that he does really well when the USD collapses.
Zerohedge is certainly not lacking in entertainment value...
Zerohedge is certainly not lacking in entertainment value...
LOL......... It seems like it never does.
Falso Article. the citizens didn't bid up anything. The currency wnet down. Dollar price remains steady. author is talking his book. deceptive advertising.
Seems like jumping the gun a bit, all the central plansters need to do is get back to work hammering down the gold again.
Be on the look out for something like this to happen again.
http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2013/04/11/full-list-of-bankers-at-white-h...
That's assuming, of course, that there's any left in the US vaults.
perhaps. though there are currently thousands of shops in the eurozone with signs like "We buy gold!". the only reliable statistic I have is for Italy, where there are... 3'000 of them
my point is that up to now the real physical buyers were nearly completely Chinese and Indians (which makes a lot of American views on gold obsolete, btw)
but IF the average eurozoner does start to buy gold - which of course he would buy physical, using the cash banknotes that are ubiquitous, here - then some fireworks are... assured
Portugal is swarming with "turn your gold in to CASH!" shops. We even have kiosks in the malls where you can exchange gold for reams of fresh euro notes in 2-ply 24 megaroll packs.
Mass acceptance usually signals a top
Do you have scrap or unwanted gold?
Yes...and no.
I want it all.
I remember the last time, 1980. It ended because Volcker jacked real interest rates sky high. This was the FED's way of saying we will pay you not to invest in alternatives. They must do the same thing now, or lose credibility. The national debt, as a % of GDP, is sky high compared to back then. The governmental share of GDP is also at a high(record?). Where does the US gov. get the money to pay those higher rates? Higher taxes. That seems very unlikely, thanks to the new Congress.
If they pull a Volcker now, it may crush PMs in the short term but eventually people will realize that all the high-interest debt will either require a default, and/or, a massive amount of money printing to prevent a default, both of which are bullish for alternatives. Ironically keeping rates at 0%, plus heavy paper price manipulation (naked shorting etc etc), is the optimal long-term strategy for suppressing "unfavored" assets, because it's sustainable with the lowest rate of currency supply expansion.
It sounds to me like the masses are NOT buying gold... but selling it. The Cash 4 Gold shops are not run by the masses. The masses are its targets. So in that case, the masses right now would be more about selling gold than about buying it.
When Ghordius talks about Europeans buying up gold, he may or may not be referring to J6P. But in North America, I have to testify from personal witness that, in my area at least, the second J6P gets his hot mitts on a piece of gold or anything sellable, he sells it. Right away, and for whatever he can get, without a lot of research.
That to me would not signal a top in the price of gold, if that's what you meant by "top", be more inclined to see it closer to a bottom. Yeah, the more I think it over, the more logical it seems seeing plenty of Cash 4 Gold shops about would suggest a near-bottom in price.
Precisely Renfield...
I know one of these cash for gold guys. Buying has slowed recently, all the housewives and dip ity chicks have turned in most of the single earrings, family silver and old boyfriend rings. My wife is one of these dipshits. I was buying from this guy, she was scrounging the jewelry box, and selling. And if you put two crisp Benjamins in my wife's hand , she's rich!
Anyhow, I've had serious discussions with Mr. Cash for Gold, and he has no clue or give give a hoot about anything other than what his buy and sell price is. He lucked out with his timing, and did very well. Now he thinks he is a master moneymaker- master of the world- super business man.
Time will tell.
Is there ever a shortage of operators who will buy 30-50% of anything retail?
Portuguese -> para quem tem ouro
e trabalho
A bunch in Boca Raton. Surely this is important
It is nice to see that more stackers have entered the fray to help in the fight against the paper gold weilding manipulators who deserve to find they have no gold one day, just toilet paper.
I want to say to all the non-sheeple europeans, "WELCOME TO THE CLUB!!!"
ehm... thanks, kind of you. but please don't take it badly if I tell you that it's Americans that are the least/last in gold stacking, worldwide
Numbers wise you might have a point but I think we have more sheeple. How else did we get this prez back a second time, but I will put our stackers up against yours any time as long as we keep it friendly. Not like a euro football game and no deflating (US football) the gold either. LOL
Sorry to burst your bubble, mate, but voting isn't real and Barry Soetoro is no more or less of a scumbag than any of the other imperialist scumbags who came before him.
Have to disagree about Merikans not stacking. If nothing else, they've been bombarbed with TV commercials to diversify into physical gold/silver ever since Obama was elected. Could be that everyone talks about the USD imploding. In my travels to Europe since 2008, I don't find the same level of fear about the Euro.
I dunno, to me stacking means buying the stuff and receiving the actual bullion. I think a lot of Americans are just "diversifying" in to a different kind of paper with no intention of actually taking delivery.
I could be wrong, it happens a lot.
Ghordo is full of shit. There are plenty of stackers in the US. Most of Europe? LOL....yeah, okay.
Bay of Pigs, do you have a problem we can solve?
May I again point to the thousands of "cash for gold" shops? If Europeans would not have a long tradition of holding family gold, they would have long closed
(further, "stacking" was illegal in the US between 1934's confiscations and 1974)
I'm talking here about european family gold that has not been on the market since decades. I'm not talking of fresh new european stackers, I'm talking of old hoards
and europeans generally speaking don't talk to strangers or even most intimates about their income, their net worth and for sure not about their old gold hoards
and those hoards have a propensity of making their owners think, from time to time, if they should not stock them up a bit
for most Americans gold is something that became legal in 1974, to buy until 1979 and then sell to make a buck
for most Old Worlders gold is something to hold, and pass to the next generation, to be sold only in dire needs and to be bought at good opportunities
and so, yes, if the eurozone is going to have a "saving glut" as forecasted, it could become a brisk, steady stream of physical buying
but if you have to keep that "US Gold Stackers The Only In The World" dogma, then of course don't look. Also not at India or China
-----------------
which brings me to Harbanger
I did not say Americans would not stack at all. I wanted to say that the Old Worlders stack way more realy physical gold, and that the only substantial differences between Chinese, Indians and Europeans are the reticence of Europeans to even mention gold and the smoothness with which real physical gold can change hands in Europe without attracting any attention, even on statistics. and this again has nothing to do with fear for the EUR but a lot with the widespread use of cash in all transactions
Bill Gates: digital money for you and well just for you: From gates foundation letter to help 3rd world use real money not barbaric relics....
"The key to this will be mobile phones. Already, in the developing countries with the right regulatory framework, people are storing money digitally on their phones and using their phones to make purchases, as if they were debit cards. By 2030, 2 billion people who don't have a bank account today will be storing money and making payment with their phones. And by then, mobile money providers will be offering the full range of financial services, from interest-bearing savings accounts to credit to insurance."
Bill, we need some groceries.
Sure, honey, let me open my digital credits siphon program.
.........
Here ya go, your card is all charged up.
That makes sense Gordo.
After all, Europeans have a long and honored tradition of burning each others towns down to the ground.
"Fuck the livestock and grab the gold."
You guys were into urban renewal long before it was cool.
Sorry. I don't invest in gold - paper or metal. Too portable and the US govamint has already demonstrated that they can't keep their hands off of the people's gold so confiscation is inevitable - ie why bother? We just end up being the govamint's piggy bank.
There are other things that could temporarily end up being more tradable than gold... things like soap and toilet paper, (see Argentina), and I know how to make soap.
You must have a huge flat to store your wealth in soap or Tp. lol
Maybe just no wealth to store but a couple of rolls of tp.
You can actually MAKE soap at home. All you need is some fat (pork preferably), sodium hydroxide, and a fire. It doesn't work so easily for gold though... :) The guy is a tool, but it's his right to be.
Tyler Durden is a Soap Manufacturer.
He deserves +1000 for the Fight Club reference that went over many heads.
I wonder if he also Nitrates the Glycerin as Tyler did...
I hate to give up a +1000, but I meant soap... as in fat and lye. didn't even think about the "soap" you mentioned and don't know how to make or get the ingredients you mentioned either. :-( . Although if there's no soap, it could get kind of nasty... I mean after a week or two the smell alone will knock you down.
Pure Lye can be obtained at any Hardware Store. It costs about $7/lbs.
Glycerin is a byproduct of the manufacturing of Soap. You can save yourself the trouble of making soap and purchase that at any Wal~Mart Pharmacy
But as a Soap Manufacturer Tyler Durden did not let any of his byproduct go to waste. He Nitrated his Soap Byproduct, the Glycerin, and then soaked that product into Rods of Diatomaceous Clay to stabilize it. That is how to make Dynamite.
Nitric Acid can be obtained at any comprehensive Jewelry Supply. It costs about $30 per Gallon.
And finally Sulfuric Acid, the missing ingredient for the synthesis of Nitrated Glycerin, can be obtained at any Auto Parts Store.
Then you can have fun with the distillation of the acids to increase concentration.
And if you make a mistake while concocting the final product then you will be knocked down by the resultant blast...if not blown apart to smithereens.
The beauty of that story was that Tyler Durden sold the soap, which was created from the FAT that was liposuctioned out of NARCISSISTIC, GLUTTONOUS, AMERICAN WOMEN, back to NARCISSISTIC, GLUTTONOUS, AMERICAN WOMEN and then used THE BYPRODUCT OF THEIR FAT, THEIR GREED AND GLUTTONY, to bring the entire Financial System down.
Soap cleanses filth...and that is what Tyler did with Project Mayhem.
Fight Club is real, bitch.
Tyler Durden is a Soap Manufacturer.
And your level of participation is up to you.
Now get off my porch.
Read your history, when FDR banned private ownership of gold most people didn't 'turn it in'. The gov didn't come knocking for it either, I think the 2nd amendment had something to do with it.
And, just as importantly, they devalued the US dollar by 75% overnight! They only manged to maintain that peg, for 36 years, because of WW2 and Bretton Woods. To bet they can, once again, pull off an equally monumental feat is foolhardy.
Still had that peg though...
"Had" being the key word.
They do not have it now, do they?
While past performances do not ensure future outcomes it is generally accepted that it is a pretty damned accurate indicator.
If we were not able to peg it in the past just what makes you think that we even can be successful pegging it to ANY CURRENCY in the future.
Because of the Human Follies of Dishonesty and Greed even today's paper markets in Gold are rife with corruption and fraud.
The paper markets of decades past, the US Dollar, was also rife with corruption and fraud, the results being realized upon that fateful August 15, 1971 Sunday night when the USA announced that they had DEFAULTED, declared a de facto force majeure, and would no longer redeem paper receipts (US Dollars) for Physical Gold.
And if you expect that any future performance by humans, subject to temptation, will be any better then you are absolutely delusional....which definitely qualifies you for your VA check.
Great point.
Most people say Gold (coins and bullion) was 'confiscated' when in fact those who did turn theirs in were paid the current rate for each oz. (20.67 US)
After that the revaluation came....(35 US).
I believe The Gold Reseve Act also stated that you were supposed to turn in any Gold certificates too (if you had them).
US citizens had to wait until 1975 to own/trade Gold again.
Not exactly...
After an hour of research, fighting for this information of which I already was aware and buried deep in the archives of the Internet, writing a response, fighting with my attention demanding cat, dealing with a Zerohedge crash in which I lost the first response, and then having to rewrite this response...
From Wikipedia...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102
Executive Order 6102 is a United States presidential executive order signed on April 5, 1933, by President Franklin D. Roosevelt "forbidding the Hoarding of gold coin, gold bullion, and gold certificates within the continental United States". THIS STATEMENT IS TRUE.
The order criminalized the possession of monetary gold by any individual, partnership, association or corporation. THIS STATEMENT IS NOT TRUE.
US individuals, partnerships, associations, and corporations could LEGALLY buy, own, and sell Gold in FOREIGN MARKETS...until 1962.
From http://numismaster.com/ta/numis/Article.jsp?ArticleId=13895
Roosevelt’s Executive Order No. 6260 and the regulations issued thereunder. [Exec. Order No. 10896, 25 Fed.Reg. 12281 (1960)].
Similar action was again taken by President Eisenhower on Jan. 14, 1961 [Exec. Order No. 10905, 26 Fed.Reg. 321 (1961)], and by President Kennedy on July 20, 1962. Exec. Order No. 11037, 27 Fed.Reg. 6967 (1962).
Originally, gold seizure was domestic only – that is, you were prohibited from hoarding in the United States. Kennedy’s order extended the gold ownership ban to prohibit overseas ownership of gold coin by Americans. Again, rare and unusual coins were exempted.
You ought to know by now that laws are written by the RICH and FOR the Rich. There is always a loophole ready for the favored class to exploit.
I don't understand the complaint that gold is "portable." Nor do I understand your comment about being the government's piggy bank, as if you're not already.
Some things certainly will temporarily be more tradable than gold, which is why gold is a long-term insurance policy. I see no harm in having both gold and TP (or soap), along with food, lead, lead delivery systems, water purification means, etc. etc.
Your views here are just not reasonable.
STOP DISSING TOILET PAPER!
Here in Spain "compo oro" shops are starting to get back since 5 months or so.
Where I live, small 300K people city, 5 new ones opened nearby my home.
Oct and Nov last year I got "we've run out of those" from my dealer.
It just make me smile to walk through the street and see those PAMP pictures in the wall while I look for some place to drink some wine 15 meters away...
I'm about to paint "I hoard some gold that you'll buy" in my home wall... Who knows.
Need to keep it on the "low down". There will be a time when some will want to take it away. And no, I can't tell you what day and time that is. Better to be three years early then one week late IMHO.
Agree. I'm for the long term "here".
The signs that say we buy gold are in every Eurozone country especially in the Southern ones.
Average Eurozone citizens start to buy precious metals, just not on a large enough scale yet.
In some countries in Europe, suppliers don't have much bullion in stock, it is a tight market.
Exactly right, 'me again!' No queues in front of European gold stores and the USD goldprice has remained steady at roughly $1290/ounce, yet the Euro goldprice went from €1100 to €1150.
Of course this is EXACTLY why I buy gold, but ZH needs to stop brainwashing all the Joe Sixpacks hiding in camo gear in their bunker, waiting for the UN army to take over the world. These guys probably couldn't find "Ur-op" on a map, yet they are being manipulated into thinking the world is about to end and that "Europeans are rushing into gold and bidding up the Euro price of gold"
We're NOT, cut the BULLSHIT!
p.s. it's not bad if someone can't find Europe on a map, and it's not bad if soneone likes guns and camo gear and bunkers and all that stuff. What's important though is that you remain critical of ANYONE trying to brainwash you! ZH clearly has a very hidden (pump & dump, or gold sales commision based?) agenda here, because the situation here 'on the ground' in Europe is COMPLETELY different than what is suggested on sites like ZH, KWN and TF Metals.
Relax,
nobody expects Europeans to be that smart.
Look at the EMU/EU fiasco. This is not the product of brilliance.
it is deeply satisfying to see these fiat to gold charts go parabolic one collapse at a time. the USD to gold chart will eventually have to be 2 or 3 charts taped above each other to show the relative value.
Actually, if you want to see something, you have to stop playing Checkers and play Chess instead. In the case of FX and PM, as I posted last week, right after the CHF decoupled from the EUR...
The CHF gaining 15-20% means it also gained against the USD, and thus got an INSTANT and PREDICTABLE (front-runnable) price drop in Gold.
What you should plot (and ZH should have done here for comparison and completeness), is the CHF-USD plot.
For those who are unable or to lazy to do so, I will save you the trouble: the CHF gained almost 20% against the USD, and that quantum leap overshadowed the subsequent and far more gradual price increase in Gold.
IOW, as I predicted instantly last week, the Swiss or anyone holding tons of CHF had an instant 20% (give or take) price drop in Gold. In round numbers... the 1200 price went to 1000 in this scenario. That's why you could hear the "Beep, beep, beep" of Swiss trucks, so to speak.
Whats a hamburger cost in Zurich?
2.50 CHF.
http://www.mcdonalds.ch/de/menuekarte/burgers-wraps/hamburger
This Is What Gold Does In A Currency Crisis, Euro Edition
wish i could post a picture of my pocket
with a handful of gold coins
falling into said pocket...
gold is going to 700 per ounce, short squeeze
You are joking, right? Last week the Swiss blew the PM manipulation boat out of the water. Did not junk you.
i did ^^
I think he was meaning to say that he's running out of STERNO to drink.
I looked at my junk. Does that count?
As long as LBMA/CONeX set the price, the manipultion is ON. It might be game over soon, but right now it's still on, boat fully in the water.
^ Does not know what a short squeeze is.
I did junk you.
Me too :)
I was thinking the same thing.
Does not know what a short squeeze is.
Is that when I squeeze my midget?
Come on agstacks...There is a lot of ignorance.
Oh alright, I will do it...
The Swiss Franc move to unpeg from the Euro is a classic example of a Short Squeeze. (Do you think that it was unintentional by the SNB?)
When there are a lot of bets on the Short Side of the trade, a lot of paper promises to repay are outstanding, and then there is a massive call to stand and deliver on that outstanding oversold paper, then there is a short squeeze.. Prices rise and the shorts are fucked as they have to repay that which was borrowed at a much higher price.
A lot of Fx traders took in in the shorts...without the K-Y JellyTM
Now was that so difficult? I do not think he is a troll. I just think is is stupid enough not to have any real clue about that which is happening in this arena.
Hell I wish that Gold would go to $700...hell...even $70...so that I could get a bargain. That is what he is absolutely clueless about. He believes that we want to sell Gold. FOR WHAT PURPOSE??? WE do not value Fiat as much as we do Gold...That is why we have Gold in the first place.
Now back to squeezing my midget...
"He believes that we want to sell Gold. FOR WHAT PURPOSE??? WE do not value Fiat as much as we do Gold...That is why we have Gold in the first place."
Absolutely right. No one, able to read this, will live to see a better deal(+/-10% for market rigging). Currently, the US is counterfeiting $1T+ per year and still getting foreigners to use dollars in trade! If I live to 100, I don't expect to see honest 'Constitutional' money again. With the baby boom gen. aging, I expect more, not less, counterfeiting in the years. This, to paper over the difference between revenues and growing expenditures.
I believe you mean 'ignorant' and not 'stupid'.
He is here on Zerohedge trying to overcome his temporary ignorance of PMs and how they work/help.
You are correct. It was my misuse of the word, "stupid".
Edit:
In fact I just looked at his Bio...
He says, "loser".
That is pretty damned sad.
Nice Tom. Possibly the best articulation of the "problem" yet Tom, and the intellectual disconnect that divides those of us who hold PMS from those of us that don't. I especially like the your assertion that we must obviously value gold over fiat, otherwise we would not hold it - at any price. period. That is nothing short of brilliant. And I would think, start to wake the nay sayers up some. +1000
Most amazing of all is that the whole CHF trade was based upon the currency relationships of a nation of 8,000,000 and promises from that Central Bank.
Every time you squeeze your midget the Baby Jesus cries.
If you can eat it you can crush it