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GReeCe 2015...
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Frank Zappa - Trouble Every Day
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=girnJH7tvpM
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.. no way to delay ..." f.z.
an economy minister with a cv of professorship is better than a banker...
(but his party has no formed opinion about money creation and multiplication through (interest ladden) debt)
he had some interesting ideas a few years ago though, expressed through a book...
http://www.protagon.gr/?i=protagon.el.article&id=3801
Greeks are more clever than swiss.
Short chf ,long olive oil.
Samaras denied to meet Tsipras to deliver presidency! Tsipras will meet with the director of the presidential office for the ceremony of delivering ministries. Samaras is unable to accept his defeat
Seems Goldman put Greece into some of its problems?
and l.blankety blank says, from davos,
2015 looks moar promising than 2014
as great as that was.
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Frank Zappa - Trouble Every Day
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=girnJH7tvpM
.
.. no way to delay ..." f.z.
have you ever been to greece?
every single coast town has a sub penn apparently.
to fight the arch-enemy of greece, turkey
so, a lot of places to fill with urgently needed subs
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griechenverfolgungen_im_Osmanischen_Reich_1...
the "tsipras-visit at german war memorial" is already in german wiki, thats very fast.....
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schie%C3%9Fstand_von_Kesariani
Indeed I have. And you are right, the Turkonoia is palatable. Easy prey for U-Boat salesmen.
Mario is worried that now Greece will be a Drag- hi on the EU's financial system
Good Heavens !
The Greeks have just buggered the EU's happiness !!!
Breathe a little...
www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPdckeMSZ6M
So what I haven't been able to identify/clarify in this story is the following sequence of events: The German and French banks bought all this Greek sovereign bonds -- ok. In turn, the Greek government used that money to fund (a) social programs presumably already in existence but in need of continued cash flows (b) military equipment (tanks, subs, etc.) and (c) an expanded beaurocracy(related to (a)?) and (d) Olympic spectacle.
What proportion of that dough obtained by the sale of the bonds went to the people directly (e.g. in the form of easy, initially low interest rate credit cards and/or general cash to the local banks as loaned to them from the central government and/or jobs like newconstruction) and what went elsewhere?
Would someone be able to further illuminate me on this aspect of the history?
an example in US, my bank pays 0.07% on savings (effective neg interest w inflation) large bank credit cards charge 9.9% up to 18% ..auto loans 5-8%, banks get $$ from zirp for zip 0% buy bonds and use them as collateral to loan said ccard and consumer loans..get it?
"what proportion of that dough obtained by the sale of the bonds went to the people directly (e.g. in the form of easy, initially low interest rate credit cards and/or general cash to the local banks as loaned to them from the central government and/or jobs like newconstruction) and what went elsewhere? "
So why do so many ZH'ers goof on the Greek citizenry per se ('oh they're so lazy, they don't like to work, blah blah blah') when they were flooded with credit cards *and* encouraged to buy northern European goods. They have no industry on the scale of the northerners to create the wealth necessary to pay for all those nice toys, yet the clueless Yiannis-Jo-Blow gets told that everything is ok and you should get all these nice things with this plastic because everything is going to be ok. The greek middle class did what they were told (kinda like the middle classes everywhere else in the world). So their shit subsequently sinks and they default and then the Greek citizenry are told that it's their lifestyle and their value systems that is to blame - that they should become more German in terms of their work ethic and be good subservient slaves.
To me, this attitude smells like knuckle-headed racism. Why not call it really for what it really is: another instantiation of the bankers ass-fucking another small-to-medium sized country and attempting to enslave their people?
A similar thing happened in America with subprime mortgage flurry, yet no one is talking about "lazy Americans "not getting off their ass" to pay for all their financial 'excesses'.
I don't udnerstand the double standard. Resembles high calibre mind-fuckery to me.
Good for Syriza - at least someone appears to be raising a fist back at these assholes.
You sound dissapointed, ZH is not some sort of political party ;-)
Fuck politics and political parties. What about calling out bullshit for what it is?
Of course, duh. Thanks, I knew that (but then I didn't).
Your comment may be why the prospective new Greek Finance minister is talking about the end of not only the Troika rule but also the Greek oligarchy. The money - like US QE funds probably all went to the top 1%.
While encouraging - I will wait and see what the Greeks actually do. The long arm of Goldman and the bankers has a funny way of making its influence work.
This is a long way from a done deal.
What you both say is undoubtedly true.
I don't think it proper for the .00001% OR those in the employ of government OR retiree's & pensioners to profit off of sovereign debt, which as we all know is passed down to the next generation.
But...I'm curious as to the sequence of events in the voting and Greek bank runs.
It certainly appears to me that Greeks of all classes went to the banks and withdrew their cash before they went to the polls and voted for Syriza.
I don't know if thats an indictment of themselves or whatever "change" they expect from Syriza ;-)
perhaps Greeks appreciate the spending power of the EUR cash, in form of banknotes? just noting that they are fond of the EUR, a currency that is not under direct control of one country only
there is only one other form of widely accepted currency not under the control of one polity only, and that's gold. but it looks quite under the control of certain paper markets... so...
in part, this has something to do with the fact that the EUR is working as designed. which is not as lots of politicians and market sharks would wish it to work, but in a manner that is somehow useful for the man on the street
just saying, just musing, and noting how much hate the EUR get's from certain parts, while how common Greek wallets seems to like it
Well, for my part, I dislike the concept of the EU because its an infringement on individual national sovereignty for the percieved benefit of a united currency. The "common Greek" seems to like it because they get a hamburger today that they say they will gladly pay for Tuesday...forgive the Popeye reference...lol...in other words, they get more monetarily today out of the relationship than they contribute into the whole.
But again thats something we see here, being in essence a servant/slave to someone else has the benefit knowing you will have a roof over your head for the evening, food & clothing.
It does nothing to ameliorate the fact that one is still a slave.
nmewn, comment like yours give me the reason to repeat ad nauseam the "Ghordian Dogma": it's two separate clubs of sovereigns
with a separate list of sovereign members. note for example the UK, that is not a member of the monetary club and seriously discussing the termination of their "commitment" to the other voluntary club, the EU
and this is btw highly visible in the fact that many pro-federal-Europe are critics of the EUR, as much as many financial sharks
sovereignty can be applied. in the voluntary association to projects. the key points are voluntarysm and the exit door
it's like saying that free men should not marry because it burdens them with obligations, so that they aren't free anymore. well, yes, but they said "yes" and they can divorce
in this case the Greek debt is a bit like common children to be discussed about. Now Tsipras will be soon an "EuroCrat" himself, and can discuss this with some 5 others about the three-quarters of that which is anyway not paying interest upon until 2023
hardly a slave/master relationship, more like considerate parents, or considerate neighbours... with the official pathos of a great creditor vs debtor clash
sovereignty is not isolation from the world's affairs. this is a bit of an "Americanism", this conflation of Isolationism and Sovereignty. does not happen here where we are cramped cheek-to-cheek on the Greater Landmass
As I said, the debt is passed to the next generation. Its a cop out and its immoral.
Wrong place, but I can't seem to get the ZH website to put it in the right place. ????
I believe that one of the things a gold standard is supposed to prevent is the passing on of debts by elders to juniors, via persistent inflation of the paper currency.
the morality or immorality of sovereign debt has little to do with the EU or the eurozone, though
both clubs of sovereigns are the only ones on the face of this planet that try to restrict debt and restrict budget deficits
the EU in treaties, and the eurozone countries with further treaties, like the European Fiscal Compact
have a look at the wikipedia article, and have a look at who the members are... and which ones aren't
have also a look at the ratification table. note how many elected bodies approved this treaty
Yep, its all the Greek citizens fault, they voted the scumbags in, knowing they were scumbags. It's not the Eurozones fault! Drahgi was elected to debase the currency! Nobody forced the Greek nation and its Euro controlled banks to accept all that money! The Crats can wash their hands and enjoy the fenced off villas on the beach.
Any broken device created by "authorities" can be fixed by the "authorities", is that what I'm supposed to believe?
Confidence inspiring ;-)
or any human or group of humans can try to rectify a wrong done by a human or group of humans
Your comment may be why the pro
The place of the oracle has spoken. Praise Posiden.
maybe it all goes back to hosting the Olympics? Sarajevo? BEJING?? London, well that empire is already in decline.
Austerity is one big debt serf assfuck.
But hey, its OK, in fact it is essential, for all bankrupt banksters to get bailed out. Who would have the gall to consider otherwise.
And the fucking Olympics are one big debt financed infrastructure clusterfraud.
Now listen to them railing about Greek Marxists threatening to end the world as we know it.
Guess what, they are the ones who created this fucking pile of shit.
Just imagine what it must be like to have to say my wife or my daughter or my father committed suicide to save Deutschebank and Goldman Sachs.
Now let the Euro worms eat it too.
Nail guns all around.
Spend the debt before it's paid - the name of the game.
hear here WB! With you 1000% let the banksters and plutocrats hang!
If you try to cut your spending, stay out of debt and save, they will water board you with NIRP and QE.
Such is the hypocrisy of Euro austerity.
+100 or so) economists have long reviled the misers, the savers and the gold hoarders. this is where gold got its first bad rap, mammon and the golden idols tsk tsk. but in India (WHERE OBAMA IS?) they have a more enlightened view of gold, but then everyone is poor as dirt (as we are soon to be)
Ireland Proposes Debt Restructuring Conference for Spain, Greece, Ireland!
http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.gr/2015/01/ireland-proposes-debt-...
Surest bet around is the Eurocrats will be positvely manic-aflitter going to endless conferences and summits and shit for the next few months. Volitility will be nuts. Hope they all travel chartered Air Malasia to Hong Kong...Draghi and Merkel and the Hideous Lizard Woman (TM) of the IMF will be issuing pronouncements on a daily basis, with Hollande as comic relief.
I actually just went and made some popcorn, and am munching on it now. Not bad with some nice Sauvignon Blanc and WB goupies at the party.
The socialists just won in Greece
The banksters are about to be fleeced
It's kinda of funny
They will lose money
but our asses are about to be greased
Easy on the jubilee. The Greeks will promptly bugger themselves to death with marvelous Marxism. Out of the frying pan into the fire.
Kill Banksters
Europe turns Left as Greece breaks all records
A historical moment for Greece and Europe
http://x2t.com/EurLeft
300 Drachmas blocking the pass at the Thermopylae ATM.
Bravo, Banzai7!
Bully!
Radio active debt, can't be touched for 77 thousand years.
Greece gets its communism and the Europeans pay for it: priceless!!
Since the banks that loaned Greece the money they borrowed to support their ludicrous social programmes got bailed out, indeed it will be the Europeans that will have to pay for it. The bailout of Greece was a bailout of banks that made bad investments. If they is going to be any debt restructuring or even default then the bill will go to the other European countries that do have their 'books in order' so it will not go down well with them.