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"This Won't Remain Confined In Greece"
Submitted by Raul Ilargi Meijer via The Automatic Earth blog,
Is This The Day Europe Gets Its Future Back?
With The Greek election apparently over and anti-bailout Syriza the victor, it would seem useful to lay to rest a few misconceptions, and to expose a few ‘conceptions’ that have – largely – remained buried to date.
The first misconception is that the Greeks borrowed like crazy and therefore deserve to be thrown into a pit of suffering and misery. It is simply nonsense, a mere political narrative. Besides, most of what was borrowed went to the utterly corrupt ‘oligarch system’, not to the people in the street. Something the EU was certainly aware of when it accepted Greece as a member. But corrupt regimes can be of great use.
A few days back, in Bunch Of Criminals!, I made the point that the EU, and its members, have no right to do to a fellow member country what they did to Greece – and want to continue doing -.
SYRIZA leader Alexis Tsipras said this week that he will not negotiate with the Troika, but directly with EU officials. And there is a very solid reason for that. In today’s Observer, Helena Smith interviews Greek sociologist Constantine Tsoukalas, who understands what has been happening to his country, and – rightfully – frames it in terms of Naomi Klein’s Shock Doctrine.
What has happened to Greece is what Klein describes was done to South America and – later – Eastern Europe. Disaster capitalism. Bringing entire countries to their knees by enforcing predatory economic policies, and then using the ensuing chaos and smouldering ruins to take full control over their political, economic and social systems. Helena Smith:
Is Greece About To Call Time On Five Punishing Years Of Austerity?
For Professor Constantine Tsoukalas, Greece’s pre-eminent sociologist, there is no question that, come Monday, Europe will have reached a watershed. I first met Tsoukalas in January 2009, in his lofty, book-lined apartment in Kolonaki. For several weeks Athens had been shaken by riots triggered by the police shooting of a teenage boy. The violence was tumultuous and prolonged.
Looking back, it is clear that this was the start of the crisis – a cry for help by a dislocated youth robbed of hope as a result of surging unemployment and enraged by a system that, corrupt and inefficient, favoured the few. Tsoukalas knew that this was “the beginning of something” although he could not tell what. But with great prescience he spoke of the degeneration of politics – both inside and outside Greece – the rise of moral indignation, and the emptiness of a globalised market “that was supposed to put an end to ideology but, in crisis, has instead created this moment of great ideological tension”.
Six years later, following the longest recession on record, he is in little doubt that anger has fuelled the rise of Syriza. On the back of rage over austerity, the leftists have seen their popularity soar from 5% before the crisis to as high as 35% – more than the combined total of New Democracy and left-leaning Pasok, the two parties that have alternated in power since the restoration of democracy in 1974.
The European policy towards Greece, to a large extent, has been determined by the will to experiment with the feasibility of shock therapies,” says Tsoukalas. “It worked, but the reaction is going to be a leftwing government. Europe cannot survive as it is. The rise of fascism … should be sufficient [evidence] to everyone that it has to change.”
If Greece’s rebellion was to occur in a coherent way, Tsoukalas, who is being fielded by Syriza as an honorary candidate, believes it would be only a matter of time before it was replicated in other parts of the continent. “These elections are important because they are a reminder to the people of Europe that there is another way out,” he insists. “That neoliberal orthodoxy is not an immovable problem.”
[..] at 28 Veikou Street, Syriza runs the Solidarity Club – initially set up as a food bank in March 2013 when stories began to surface of malnourished children fainting in schools. In recent months, its staff have focused on providing medicines. “That’s the big problem now because so many are uninsured, without any access to the health system,” says volunteer Panaghiota Mourtidou. “People don’t have the money to go to doctors. If they have a toothache, they get terrified, because how the hell are they going to pay for a visit to the dentist?”
With its Che Guevara posters, Italian Euro-communist flags, chaos of boxes and tins, and makeshift furniture, there is something of a field-camp feeling about Veikou Street. But its army of volunteers are tireless. This, they say, is a battle to be won, a huge victory for the left that Greece will set in motion. “We are conscious that we have managed to unite in a way that the left elsewhere has failed to do,” says Angeliki Kassola, a theatre director. “I’ve met lots of once-strident New Democracy supporters who say they will be voting for us because they are attracted to Syriza’s vision of democracy, justice, dignity – all the things that have been taken from us in the crisis.”
There will be plenty who don’t agree with an analysis like this. Just as there will be plenty who insist that the Greeks brought it all upon themselves. They should take a look at what my friend Steve Keen, presently “Professor of Economics and Head of the School of Economics, Politics and History at Kingston University London”, wrote this week in Forbes Magazine. That should cure a few lost souls of their foolish fantasies. And then they should take their new found insights and ask themselves: wait a minute, what is going on here? Why is Greece being squeezed the way it is? Deep down, you already know, don’t you? Steve:
I fully expect most commentators to take a line like that in my title. After all, it’s common knowledge that the Greeks lied about their levels of public debt to appear to qualify for the EU’s entry criteria, which include that aggregate public debt should be below 60% of GDP. Though there’s an argument that Goldman Sachs, many of whose ex-staff are now leading Central Bankers, helped the Greeks make this alleged lie, the responsibility for it will be shafted home to the Greeks, and that in turn will be used to argue that the Greeks deserve to suffer.
The story, in other words, will be that the Greeks were architects of their own dilemma, and that therefore they should pay for it, rather than making the rest of the world suffer through a write-down of their debts. Emotion will rule the debate rather than logic. So to cast a logical eye over this forthcoming debate, I’m going to consider who is really to blame for the Greek dilemma by considering another country entirely: Spain. Today, Greece and Spain are in very similar situations, with unemployment rates of well over 25%—higher than the worst the USA recorded during the Great Depression (see Figure 1). But unlike Greece, Spain before the crisis was doing everything right, according to the EU.
More importantly still, Spain’s government debt when the EU imposed its austerity regime (mid-2010) was still well below America’s, even though both had risen substantially since the crisis. Spain’s government debt ratio was 65% of GDP then, versus 78% for the USA. The whole purpose of the EU’s austerity program was to reduce government debt levels. Reducing government debt was the political topic du jour in America as well from 2010 on, but the various attempts to impose austerity came to naught: instead, after shooting up because of deliberate policy at the time of the crisis America’s budget deficit merely responded to the state of the economy.
Politically paralyzed Washington talked austerity, but never actually imposed it. So who was more successful: the deliberate, policy-driven EU attempt to reduce government debt, or the “muddle through” USA? Figure 2 shows that muddle through was a hands-down winner: the USA’s government debt to GDP ratio has stabilized at 90% of GDP, while Spain’s has sailed past 100%. The USA’s macroeconomic performance has also been far better than Spain’s under the EU’s policy of austerity. Comparing the USA’s unemployment rate to Spain’s has to account for the fact that it was higher before the crisis—at 8.5%, Spain’s unemployment was 1.75 times the USA’s when the crisis began. It is now about 4 times the USA’s.
So simply on the data, the prima facie case is that all of Spain’s problems—and by inference, most of Greece’s—are due to austerity, rather than Spain’s (or Greece’s) own failings. On the data alone, the EU should “Cry Uncle”, concede Greece’s point, stop imposing austerity, and talk debt-writeoffs—especially since the Greeks can argue that at least part of its excessive public debt ratio is due to the failure of the EU’s austerity policies to reduce it.
But I know that data isn’t enough to sway the public opinion—let alone the bureaucrats in Brussels. So we need to know the why: why did austerity in Europe fail to reduce the government debt ratio, while muddle-through has stabilized it in the USA? Here I return to my hobby-horse: the key factor that I consider and mainstream economists ignore—the level and rate of change of private debt. The first clue this gives us is that the EU’s pre-crisis poster-boy, Spain, had the greatest growth in private debt of the three—far exceeding the USA’s. Its peak debt level was also much higher—225% of GDP in mid-2010 versus 170% of GDP for the USA in 2009 (see Figure 4).
The second clue comes from the change in debt data: the factor that Greece and Spain have in common is that the private sector is reducing its debt level drastically—in Spain’s case by over 20% per year. The USA, on the other hand, ended its private sector deleveraging way back in 2012. Today, Americans are increasing their private debt levels at a rate of about 5% of GDP per year—well below the peak levels prior to the crisis, but roughly in line with the rate of growth of nominal GDP.
The third clue? I’ll leave that for my next post—this one is long enough already. But the conclusion is that Greece’s crisis is the EU’s fault, and the EU should “pay” via the debt write-offs that Syriza wants – and then some.

Austerity is something that doesn’t work, but it does fit in great with the will to experiment with the feasibility of shock therapies. Austerity, in the way it’s been applied to Greece, is a tool to gain greater power over people and their social structures. It is economic warfare, plain and simple. That is to say, the EU has become a ‘union’ where the people in weaker member states can be strangled, and ‘economically conquered’, with impunity.
If you live in a EU country, and you don’t like that these things are carried out in your name, this is the time to make your discontent known. Because now you know. Don’t let the Greeks fight this battle on their own. I don’t care what you say, but you’re not innocent if you let it happen. If they lose, it’ll be on your conscience.
Oh, and if they win, heed Helena Smith’s words: “if Greece’s rebellion was to occur in a coherent way, [..] it would be only a matter of time before it was replicated in other parts of the continent.” But don’t think ‘they’ will let it happen peacefully. They’ll organize huge social unrest, inject violence, and then try to use it to clamp down on the population and reinforce their grip on power. This won’t remain confined to Greece.
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The euro is dead, short it to parity and beyond.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yloaBw80fV4
Why exactly should getting rid of deadbeats like Greece and Spain make Euro weaker?
You have a lot to learn Obviously with that type of statement
Of course this won't stay confined. There will be a north/south split up of the Euro, and everyone will be better off for it.
Nobody has said a thing about Italy yet but they are barely standing and of course there is France who has a huge systemic problem that is being papered over. There's no good solution but the EU isn't even trying and the edge of the cliff is approaching rapidly.
This ends the Western Barbarian's dream of empire. The EU is finished.
ALL FORWARD UKRAINE!
Utter Bullshit...Greece won't leave the EU and the Euro will keep running in that failed state. It is a fact that the masses are brute and ignorant; they are extremely gullible and unable to think for themselves (trained not to think critically).
I'm being ironic...not that this isn't truly tragic.
"We are fools because we fool ourselves."
All that is left of the "European Union" right now is war with Russia.
And that is a FACT.
(trained not to think critically)
And yet somehow they did today. Many of them. And their leader seems to be a real leader, not a stooge of the PTB, if the rest of us remember what that is.
Stupid brute, you are definitively trained not to think critically:
Check first who financed the campaign of those clowns
Let's see if these useful idiots decide to abandon the Euro and EU
Greece is already a failed state and nothing will change.
No shit, SickD. It's the end of the world as he knows it, and he feels fine.
Today, during the military parade, Modi showed Obama India’s latest armaments, mostly Russian or developed and built with Russia, including the latest planes and ballistic missiles.
After the parade, Modi and Obama agreed to a joint venture for building drones based on the RQ-11 Raven.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AeroVironment_RQ-11_Raven
Drones? Those tiny little toys? That’s it? ;-)
Exceptional, aren’t we?
Looney
So if they have the weapons, why aren't they chasing China and Pakistan out of the Kashmir?
Snow in New York is always news. China's ever expanding land grabs, not so much.
Maybe because that piece of Kashmir is not worth being nuked for... Used to be called common sense. The fact that you felt the need to even ask such a question is, well, telling... and worisome.
Those tiny little toys make us exceptional at creating new enemies for the MIC.
Constant conflict is the means and the method towards global hegemony.
/sarc
They've maintained all along that a EuroZone break-up is not an option. So, some leaving is, at least, psychologically detrimental. It's an admission of failure.
Maybe you should actually read the article - especially the part from Forbes mentioned at the end.
Popandraeoff or what the fuck ever his name is, the Prime Minister who boogied after declaring a referendum back in the day. Why don't you look that bastard up. He's the one who took all the money and knows where it is. We should look up all these leaders who plundered the loans and left the debt with their people. How come no one wants to look these fuckers up?
Exactly my point made on the other thread. TY.
Greece just like Spain were ram rodded into debt by the banksta cabal; whatever the situation that GS and its felons imposed on the EU by cooking the greek books in 2004, as part of their great plan to control EU financially.
If you are incapable saying "No" to debt, and you are voting for politicians who can't say "No" to debt (cause you are part of Free shit army) then you must not be suprised to be steamrolled by debt.
Here's an open secret: With debt backed, fiat currency, the debt MUST increase, whether it be spent on infrastructure, welfare, warfare or anything else you can think of. If it fails to increase, the system will collapse.
So - in other words it's a fucking debt-based Ponzi scheme ?
Shit , what happens when it collapses ?
War.
El Vaquera, you are absolutely right
I've been saying this for a long time. The debt system will only work for as long as new debt will be taken.
When it stops we will have deflation. This is where we are at now. The system is at the cusp of collapse.
cannot.allow.deflation
must.start.printing.press
Yep, but the big secret is they MUST have inflation to cheapen the true debt and right now the EU is going in the wrong direction and Drahi's little QE will have no effect. It's a good thing they are so much smarter than us peons.
El Vaquero, there is a further open secret: it does not... if you allow defaults and market crashes
$60 trillion in debt in the US alone, and that's not counting unfunded liabilities that are now part of the social structure. The allowing of defaults is only very minor compared to the overall picture. US Public debt has doubled, on average, every 8 years since the Nixon shock. Allowing defaults only works if 1) there is a sound basis for the currency and 2) if the debt isn't multiple times greater than the GDP. Go back through US monitary history since the Nixon shock, and you'll see that the only time that the national debt decreased that didn't cause problems was when the M2 money velocity was ripping, and total debt, both public and private still increased. Total debt in the US decreased during only one period since the Nixon Shock, and that was as a result of Lehman. It almost brought the system down.
http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/graph/?g=YiJ
The idea that allowing defaults will save the system is a myth.
the idea that defaults crash the system is also a myth. and the idea that crashes are apocalyptic is also a myth. they are "just" extremely painful
+100 sounds about right
...because the entire system is based on the myth that you can get people to accept unlimited quantities of little pieces of paper as gold indefinately.
"the idea that crashes are apocalyptic is also a myth."
If you take a look at the meaning of the word "apocalypse," you find that it doesn't mean what most people think it means. It does not mean "everything ends and/or is destroyed." The actual meaning is "uncovering" or "revealing," as in "that which was hidden is now plain for all to see." If you look at it that way, you'll find that crashes are indeed apocalyptic.
THE POLITICIANS TOOK THE PAYOFFS!
Yes, it IS that simple.
Elect the same clown over and over again (PASOK)...and yes, YOU ARE SCREWED.
Next time "pay in cash."
This is just another Lehman "repo 109" or whatever they called that thing.
They borrowed a stupendous amount of money and unlike Banks which can just fire everybody or simply collapse "with an actual country its more complicated."
They should have exited the euro IMMEDIATELY back in 2008.
Instead they had that Poopie guy still in charge...he got his bailout and Greece got SCREWED.
... if you allow defaults and market crashes
When was the last time when EU allowed for an European default and market crash ? Inquiring minds would love to know...
Your quote should be a mandatory post-script to every ZH article that deals with national debts.
It applies especially well in places like Argentina and Venezuela, where the goal is takeover via bankruptcy. And sometimes, the most Useful Fool is an incompetent leader, who will spend or run the country into the ground. Chavez must be rolling in his early gave, to have been replaced by that ex-busdriver, who has effectively become the Useful Fool to bring down Venezuela.
Please, Chavez is the one who appointed Maduro and he did so because Raul whispered it to him when he was already to high on medication to even think clearly. Almost all of Venezuelas economic woes stem from Chavez time it's just gotten worse now. It's the corrupt Chavista/Military caste that is bringing down the country on its own...
Ty El!!
This scam erected in 1913 is not a complicated one. Its only got one ending.
How come? There are fiat currency countries who haven't increased their debt. Take Switzerland as an example. It's debt level fell from 50% on GDP in the late 90s to 36% today. So I woul disagree. It's banks selling bonds and governments unable to control their spending that are not working out. If it's any help...Switzerland and some nordic countries are the only ones with debts more or less under control!
so show me ONE country in the world which has said NO to debt today??
The world is drowning in PRIVATE initiated debt. The government debt was ram-rodded down the throats of people by corrupt and crony politicians (Greece being in a class of its own). It wasn't the free shit army that caused this mess, it was the elite oligarchy class playing at the casino. Then the free shit army got clobbered as a result for something they never started.
Have you been playing Rip van Winkle these last 10 years?
I don't know what reality you live in. Utopia?
"show me ONE country in the world which has said NO to debt today?"
Libya had no debt until a few years ago. Financed its infrastructure projects with oil revenues, not rent-extracting credit.
Anyway, it has debt now.
"Greece just like Spain were ram rodded into debt by the banksta cabal; whatever the situation that GS and its felons imposed on the EU by cooking the greek books in 2004, as part of their great plan to control EU financially. "
Plan? Don't think so. It does not need a plan to ask for "moar", be them bankers, politicians or even citizens. But yes, once in a creditor vs debtor situation, this often seen conflict has it's own life
Tsipras wants to negotiate with the EU only. Meaning he wants to keep both the ECB and the IMF at arm's lenghts. This is interesting at many levels, isn't it?
His main task, though, is to see that every euro that the Greek state spends is well spent, and to get rid of that damn corruption that is what really ails Greece
if he tackles that well, the european political forces that are sympathetic to him will be forthcoming, of that I'm quite sure
this article is a bit better then the other one, but this Raul Illargi is nevertheless quite a shill and a demagogue, in my opinion
2000-2004 : GWB and new american century had a plan and Richard Perle came to France and "converted" a lot of Chirac party dissidents into buying into neo-liberalism, to latch on to IRaq Crusade by selling "clash of civilization" to the new european leaders--Chirac/Schroeder and Putin -- being in the other camp.
Result ? Mutti in Germany, Sarko in france, Greece in EU, Barroso elected head EU, Aznar ruled in Spain and Blair was shoe-in to help in Afghan/Irak capers. The famous Azores four were all firmly in place.
I see it clearly as a sign the US neo-liberals had their political friends AT LAST in all the key places. French Left was thrown a bone when Pascal Lamy named head of WTO in 2005.
From then on the EU moved towards neo-liberalism bigtime right into the 2008 web under the aegis of its banks vying to out-flank the Us top 4. We know what followed.
Call it what you like, but Pax Americana called it a great global unilaterally coerced ---(using Davos and other hi-flying agendas)-- to align the first world to THEIR neo-liberal values initiated by Reaganomics.
I don't comment on Illargi but I find this geo-political view coherent on Greece and Europe.
Bingo, and the sooner the people realise they have been Bilderbuggered, and better yet act upon it, the better.
of course, but neo-liberalism isn't a plan, or a Bilderberger plan. it's an ideology. a lens with which to have a look at the world
neo-liberalism is just as totalitarian as fascism and communism if paired with the current neo-corporativism. but it does not mean it isn't right, in parts
this very blog is more often then not using neo-liberal argument
you are so German with your robotic cold systematic logic
dude it does not hurt to feel human , you should try it sometimes it does the soul wonders!!!
Free shit army. First country to fall to it completely is Greece.
Next Spain, Italy, Portugal (in no particular Order)
France
They're going to have to change the acronym to PIS now.
The Greek predicament was explained 5 years ago.
http://www.vanityfair.com/business/features/2010/10/greeks-bearing-bonds...
So Greece leaves the Eurozone, EU imposes economic sanctions, teaches them a lesson and anybody else who gets any bright ideas.
They'll have a Russian gas pipeline right at their border... to share with other EU members, it they feel like...
"EU imposes economic sanctions, teaches them a lesson"
And then they move towards Russia and the Eurasian pact. That "lesson" will be noticed by other states, soveriegns, and may create a template to disassemble the EU.
Yeah, it's not the fault of the welfare, it's not the fault of the failue to tax enough to pay for the welfare, it's the fault of the evil bankers who lent them the money to pay for the welfare that they were unwilling to pay for themselves. It fits the evil banker meme, but I'm not sure I'm buying it...
Plenty of blame to go around. It matters not debt jubilee must come and it will once all the blood is sucked dry from these societies. Then blame will belong only one place and they (bankers) will have earned it all..
So, is this finally the beginning of the end or will the new politicians simply be bribed enough to go along?
The Free shit army will find new tools to vote for.
Iceland has been totally removed from the news flow.
and Cyprus and everyone that lost their homes in the sub-prime crash.
We only hear about Greece now the elections are here.
The most interesting things aren't covered by the bankster MSM.
Shh! Don't mention Iceland's withdrawal of their application to join EU.
Some SYRIZA MPs gathered outside NERIT headquarters (the government TV that took the place of the Public Broadcaster ERT through a dictatorial move by Samaras). Police forces are now outside the building. According to some information, NERIT leadership called the police because SYRIZA declared that it will restore ERT to previous situation!
Who is this Ilargi guy anyway. Look idiot, in case you haven't been keeping up with current affairs, Greek bond yields have decoupled from the rest of the EU South. So how to you keep the situation in Greece contained? Give them no leeway whatsoever. None. If the go their own way their economy will crash to horrible levels and serve as a warning to everyone else. If they do as they are told, then it proves that this is the only way. Everything else is bullshit.
Well, dumbass; how 'to' you keep the situation contained? You tell them all to fuck off! This is what I expect Tsipras to do. What's Frau Merkel to do? Hold her breath and stomp her feet?
She needs Greece more than Greece needs her.
as soon as greece has to pay out more than they get they will default. they have a long history of doing just that. from wiki: Greece (external debt: 1826-1842, 1843-1859, 1860-1878, 1894-1897, 1932-1964, 2010-present;[24][25][26] domestic debt: 1932-1951[24])
It's the rational thing to do... Surprised ?
The big banks forced the country to take the debts. They made the money, now they want to take it out of the people's hides. Debts are the banks assets. Watch this model used all over the world.
i just watched the live stream.
summary. previous greek pm says he thanks his supporters for watching him hold a 'hot potatoe'.
tsipras to his loyal audience " we won and everything is going to be GREAT!"
funny how tsipras is so full of shit now that he won. no. things cannot be great, now is when they get worse because either MORE bribery will make it worse, or if he's not easily bought off by the EU and germanys and goes to the drachma, truly crushing inflation and suffering will hit his people , and he knows this.
they will call it, greecgentina.
USA muddle through worked? Wait a minute, We reconfigured our GDP to artificially enhance it and it was already a misleading number anyway. Our GDP in not 16-17 trillion it is lower. The US debt is 18 trillion and will be 19 trillion a year or so from now. Our unemployment figure used in the article is also very flawed. Factor in the participation rate and other forms of inadequate employment and the figure is double digits.
I do agree with his premise about not blaming all Greeks for the debt. It is TRUE that the loan money flowed to a few insiders and the trickle down was minimal or just enough to keep the masses from complaining.
I laughed when i read we muddled through.. We printed and spent, adjusted BLS stats while bamster lied his ass off to our faces and Congress continued to ratchet down the police state.. Muddled through, fuck you....
If I remember correctly it was Goldman Sachs who instructed the Greeks to lie about their debt levels, and who then along with other Wall Street Warlocks and Brussels Bandits demanded austerity be imposed to protect their profits.
It's one thing to say you support democracy, as long as you are winning, but will all that happy talk go out the window when they lose?
Greeks are first and foremost victims of their incompetent governments. Prior to the introduction of the Euro, Greek interest rates were high which put a lid on government and private borrowings and encouraged savings. Starting with PASOK, there was this bad habit of buying votes in return for government jobs which were inevitably filled to a large extent by incompetent, unqualified and lazy individuals.
With the advent of the Euro prices and wages got out of control and the low interest rate environment spurred both governments and individuals to borrow mostly for uproductive purposes.
Greece more than ever before lived beyond its means as it relied on borrowed money, EU subsidies, the spending of their savings and the sale of family property to invest in the stock market which since its heights has lost well over 90%.
Anyone who says that Greece's debt is serviceable is a fool beyond doubt.
Anyone who says that Greece should sell assets to pay off 350 billion euro in debt is an even bigger fool. This would be the equivalent of the USA selling almost 12 trillion dollars in assets to do the same thing.
Greece needs to depart the Euro with the blessing and support of the Europeans. The debt should be frozen at less than 1% interest ( which is what Germany can borrow at), the Germans need to pay just compensation plus interest for damages caused in WWII and Greece MUST learn to live within its productive means. This last point is the most important and if it means eating bread, olives and feta cheese then so be it.
If Greece can be allowed to develop its oil and gas fields without the constant threats of the Turkish government then perhaps this can also be a blessing to Europe.
If Greece can make an example of its thieving politicians by stripping them of their assets then the rest of the population will know that law and order will henceforth prevail.
That debt is what controls the economy/gov. In place of well thought out use of human capitol/labor.
The Troika would be fools to extend more credit. After all, the Greeks already agreed to reforms and failed, and and now they want even more free money, which they will "renogotiate" (i.e. default on).
Simple solution: let the Greeks default. Let the banks that lent them money suffer for their error. Let the Greek people see that there's no free lunch to be given from the government spending. The new masters of Greece will fail to provide something for nothing, just as others have failed. Bring it on.
Why is anything that has happened to date in Greece in any way "capitalist"???
It's subsidized, social welfare state, big government spending, market-rigging SOCIALISM.
http://www.syriza.gr/article/id/53894/The-political-resolution-of-the-1s...
Global warming believers - check. LGBT supporters - check (gay marriage included of course). Anti-religious nutbags - check. Immigrant and asylum seekers friendly -check. Just the right party for the Putin cocksuckers here!
It will only spread if the Greeks make a successful exit. But they will have to fight off a huge verbal and economic attack by the EU, ECB, and US.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rK0De210TBQ - There is a sturdy element of truth in farce .
Yet another socialist communist propaganda rant, shit in word form.
Why weren't the noble virtuous Greek proletariat rebeling when their government was borrowing HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS of Euros and using the money to finance free-everything for the proletariat mob ????
Facts and math are a bitch. The 2008 financial collapse was the greatest con in the history of the world as trillions and trillions of private debt were dumped on public balance sheets. Then the Oligarchs demanded massive cuts in public spending, the sell off of public assets and the privatization of everything.
While you stand there with dick in hand, the Greek populace is at least trying to stop the corporate and financial services industry pillaging.
"What has happened to Greece is what Klein describes was done to South America and – later – Eastern Europe. Disaster capitalism. Bringing entire countries to their knees by enforcing predatory economic policies, and then using the ensuing chaos and smouldering ruins to take full control over their political, economic and social systems."...
This seals the deal for this whole read.... The EU was nothing more/ nothing less than the "same shit different day" that the Anglo-American usuals did to Latin America on drugs after 1914. John Perkins' Confessions of an Economic Hit Man come to mind...
None of the member Countires wanted it when it was announced more than 15 years ago and it's beyond comprehension that it's lasted this long which speaks volumes to the members that gave up and joined it without a real fight!
Europe cannot survive as it is. The rise of fascism … should be sufficient [evidence] to everyone that it has to change.”
A bit revealing, it seems to me.
Implied is the usual -and wrong as always- notion that fascism can only occur towards the right edge of the (false choice) political spectrum...
I am ccompletely unconcerned about the fall of a country or a currency. They are both fictions. Its like getting worked up over the death of a character in a novel. Enjoy the drama.
Rather I am accutely concerned about the systems and infrastructure that relies on these fictions.
The paper will burn. The governements will change name. The countries will lift new flags. New lines will be drawn.
I foresee people dying from lack of resources other than the means to make war. Thats is what has me concerned. They reason they prop this system up whenever they can, is they know how disurptive it can be to find and build a new system in the ashes of another. Chaos is what you get without a system and its... chaotic.
"Politically paralyzed Washington talked austerity, but never actually imposed it."
I call BS on Keen for this one. The sequester cut spending by $150 billion per year through 2017, or about 1% of GDP.
Ok... but with a total budget of $3T ... $150B is only a drop in the bucket ... 5%. And they screamed about the "hungry children"... .
So instead of a deficit of approx $1T / yr .. its only $850 B. Thats austerity ? In whose book?
Fuck the central banks and their trillionaire owners!
" Besides, most of what wasborrowed went to the utterly corrupt ‘oligarch system’, not to the people in the street. Something the EU was certainly aware of when it accepted Greece as a member. But corrupt regimes can be of great use."
What about all the Greek civil servants who were on fantastic salaries and pensions and didn't even have to turn up for work?
The USG is exactly the same - only worse
nice post. pity it's a load of cock.
everybody would be quite content in Brussels to let Greece go. possibly quietly. but thats' NOT what Syryza, or other protest movements in europe are advocating. they are not saying "we won't pay".
They are saying that GERMANY should pay for their debt, whose proceeds have been happily squandered in their home countries, and on top that Germany should CONTINUE paying for whatever they see fit to spend money on. all worthy causes, mind you. Health spending. thosa kind of things.
But, if the words "no taxation without representation" mean anything to you, beware of the binary outcome: Either Germany gets his say in how things are done in Greece, or no money would flow Greece's way altogether.
I am Afraid that 15 years from now, all those Syryza supporters will lament and look fondly back to "the golden age of oligharchs".
nice post. pity it's a load of cock.
everybody would be quite content in Brussels to let Greece go. possibly quietly. but thats' NOT what Syryza, or other protest movements in europe are advocating. they are not saying "we won't pay".
They are saying that GERMANY should pay for their debt, whose proceeds have been happily squandered in their home countries, and on top that Germany should CONTINUE paying for whatever they see fit to spend money on. all worthy causes, mind you. Health spending. thosa kind of things.
But, if the words "no taxation without representation" mean anything to you, beware of the binary outcome: Either Germany gets his say in how things are done in Greece, or no money would flow Greece's way altogether.
I am Afraid that 15 years from now, all those Syryza supporters will lament and look fondly back to "the golden age of oligharchs".