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The Greeks Have A Simple Message To Europe
Sunday's Greek vote for anti-austerity left-wing Syriza shows the people's eagerness to stop the current bailout scheme and renegotiate a deal that's more favorable for the Greek economy. In the next several days and weeks, we'll learn a lot more about the implication of the vote, and what new leader Alexis Tsipras is capable of accomplishing; but as Bloomberg Businessweek reports, perhaps this banner displayed produly at last night's victory rally says it all...
The sign is directed at the so-called "Troika," the outside group made up of representatives form the EU, the ECB, and the IMF.
This group regularly comes to Greece to make sure the country is living up to its agreements as part of the bailout. In his victory speech, Tsipras declared the end of the Troika era, and clearly his supporters are hoping that that statement proves correct.
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It's all fun and games until someone's eye is poked out pension or unemployment check doesn't come in the mail.
cognitive consonance in the face-eyes open, honey we got a problem...
why this happen now?
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30991950
I'm just glad the Greeks wrote the sign in English or I wouldn't have a clue what they were saying.
I hope they actually do it. I've just seen this shit show too many times to have any deep belief they will. At best I think this is their bargaining leverage to get better terms. Nothing says "I'm willing to walk away" like actually demonstrating your willingness to walk away.
Around my place we have a saying about fun and games...
"It's all fun and games until someone gets hurt... Then it's just plain funny".
But we are all consenting adults 'round here.
The poor state of the world is no longer bothersome, but a sick form of entertainment at this point.
Time to unplug for a bit...
The intervals unplugged get longer and the time between them shorter...
One day I will attempt to "plug back in" and it won't work...
I'll just shrug my shoulders and go out to the greenhouse.
Fuck it.
Has Mr. Panos been appointed Secretary of the Treasury yet?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zvl9N9GdraQ
after the f16....just a 2 week delay in wages checks just to let plan some " oh, dear, i forgot you, i hope it didn't hurt that much i guess "
then siriza will instant calm the fuck down when in the same time population will make EXACTLY SAME ANALYSIS french made 1 year after elect a dumbfuck " heyyy, he promised xxxxxxx then yyyyyyy then zzzzzzz where is the money dude !!!!!
then..? then nothing, shut the fuck up, eat with what you got, and plz no move or we kill some journalists in front of your childs.
europ these days...
in 2030 EU will be worse than germany in 40.
I downvoted you because you are an optimist, Greece will be worse place in 2016 than Germany in 30-40 of last century.
Yes, we can!
Liberation of Russian city Mariupol from the fascists German hordes, September 10th, 1943.
The South Front
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cX6mlJpfoM&x-yt-ts=1422040409&x-yt-cl=84637285#t=27
Is there anyone else out there that has "had it" with the lazy butt Greeks and their "Gime - Gime - Gime - the world owes me a living" attitude? Suggestion: Don't give them another cent and let them all go to work. When they get hungry enough maybe they will realize that they have nothing of value to offer the world except a look at their 2000 year old Stuff.
Or maybe they'll wisen up and issue their own non-debt based, non-central bank meddled currency and become productive and prosperous without being strangled to death by mountains of unpayable interest.
Long shot I know, but a guy can hope.
The checks will all arrive on time.
They might not be denominated in fiat that is worth anything.
http://youtu.be/gqUzQjXNliU
cut in half(one forth after dracma devaluation) to hypothicate socialism.
Sucks to be a Eurobankster....
Renew on Carousel
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSnLU9nyFSA
Germany has not gone 100% barbaric yet however...
German court upholds men’s right to stand up while urinating
what a coincident wow. the Greeks gonna be pissed when nothing changes as nothing ever does or ever will. this will be a lesson for us all that you can vote on this or that the cocksucking bankers are in control and they will tell us how it WILL be suckers
Yves has a sobering analysis:
http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2015/01/much-success-syriza-likely-ending...
Best of luck to 'em in any case.
and what do the Greeks know about democracy ;-)
If I was Syriza, and I planned on leaving the Euro Zone altogether, do you think I would let it be known during elections? No. It's the ace-in-the-hole at the negotiations table if you win the elections.
Exactly , Don't tell anyone your plans(ie SNB) and have talks with Putin...
I pity the average Greek. Sure, it'll be well deserved fun to give the finger to the Banksters, but then they get to suffer through a long march toward the Marxist paradise that never arrives.
Go long on all methods of suppression/numbing of consciousness in Greece.
The banksters ARE the Marxist and every other ism
All this strutting around and protesting is well and good. But at some point, the adults need to take charge and deal with the situation.
As the FT pointed out this morning, Greece has 175% Debt/GDP, with avg. maturity of 16 years and average yield of 2.6%. I would like all the Troika bashers to explain to me how the Greeks are going to do borrow more cheaply from someone else. It's clear they cannot.
So all the Troika bashing on ZH is really just about default. That's fine and the Greeks certainly have the right to default. And the ECB has the right to kick them out of the Eurozone.
After default, there will be no pension checks or anything else until the situation is sorted. And who will lend to the new Greek government after default? At what rate? How much? How much additional suffering will occur under this scenario?
The Troika can easily write off the 300B. Life goes on. The Greeks would suffer for another 25 years. There is plenty of blame on both sides. So it's time for reconciliation and negotiation, not protest.
They cannot pay back those loans even at a zero percent interest rate. And they never will. So why are the Greeks participating in this farce? Just to keep the con game going a little bit further is the real answer.
Declare default and deal with the pain. It will get a lot worse for a much shorter period of time than many think. With the debt load gone, very quickly the economy will begin to 'work' again, though not at full speed for several years.
Of course this assumes they get their socioeconomic house in order, something I don't think they have the balls to do, particularly when their crushing debt load is gone and some wiggle room is found. A habitual gambler doesn't usually reform if the pressure is suddenly removed. They must want to reform, otherwise it is just a waste of time.
This requires leadership, in short supply at the moment.
You know how when someone goes bankrupt, and everything is settled, they start sending them credit cards again?
Yeah.
The only people the Greeks will be fucking if they default on the debt is the Western leach banks. Their credit rating will tank but there are always other 'potential business partners.'
greeks are debt free..some old elite pricks signed off on debt perhaps they can go after the old leadership?
such a silly game a piece of paper has no power unless ALL agree.
Western banks will write off 300B while Draghi gives them off >1100B
Bankruptcy is a very old solution. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bankruptcy
Agreed.
But Tsipras has said he doesn't want a default. Greek private companies with debt denominated in Euros would be torched also. He will negotiate with the Troika because there is no alternative and all the ultra leftists will be sadly disappointed.
After a default would come 25 years of chaos and Colonels like we had in the from the 50s through the 70's. The younger folks on this site don't remember. I heard the stories as a kid from all the Greek emigres in my neighborhood.
I have no sympathy for the banks or the Troika. But the level of juvenile commentary on ZH baffles me. Ask Argentina how easy it's been after defaulting; they have far more natural resources than the Greeks.
Captain Willard, I hereby request you to post "moar", and so increase the average quality of commentary on ZH
"And the ECB has the right to kick them out of the Eurozone."
No. The Maastricht treaty preculudes this option. Greece may change thier SOVERIEGN law to allow withdrawal, however, there is no law to allow expulsion.
Greece holds the cards here imho. The ECB can negotiate to terms suitable to Greece, or Greece can spoil the well. Read the treaty.
It's a chance for the EU (more the IMF actually) to back off and let Greece heal. Otherwise the EU fractures.
My money is on fracture.
Please, dont mix up Euro-zone with Euro-union.
If this is Greece, why is the sign in English?
It's addressed to Troika, not to Greeks
The Troika is made up of European entities. So again, why is the sign in English?
Because English is the lingua franca of the EU.
Bela lugosipolous in The Return of Drachma-ula
dont fuck with the people that invented butt fuck as a pleasure
How do you seperate the Greek men from the Greek boys?
With a crowbar!
I didn't know you liked cock Ghengis86. I'm a pussy man myself. Dunno why, just prefer it. Each to their own though, as you were.
Huh? How did you get that from a Greek homo joke based in thousands of years of Greek history? Project much? Or did that strike too close to the firehouse?
+100 lmao
Haha touché. Seems you are a pussyman as well. My mistake and my apologies. That's why I was surprised to think otherwise. Hence why I said "I didn't know you liked cock" which could of been re-worded to "I always had you down as a pussyman like us". Sometimes you can read words in a way they were not intended.
No worries, mate.
For the record, I prefer sheep; they know how to keep a secret!
Cheers!
Me too mate.
Not exactly. The herd running away from you at top speed is generally a dead giveaway!!!
Herd of buffalo. Flock of sheep.
And you know this how, exactly?
He like Chauncy Gardner, "Likes to watch".
For the record, I prefer sheep; they know how to keep a secret!
Must be a Kiwi
What, you think that homo activity is some sort of Greek invention? There are lots of central asian male-on-male goodness to go around....
Replace Troika with Fed Res and fly that bitch over here! Fuck you, Fed!
When do they show Tsipras the Zapruder film?
I've been thinking the same thing today. I'm not a great fan of conspiracy theories myself, but I can't shake off the idea that this man is very threatening to the EU status quo and that someone might come up with the unholy idea that a cheap bullet may prevent a lot of damage to the vested interests of a lot of rich and influential people.
I do not share the political ideas of this man, but I do believe it is high time for someone to defend the 25 % of Greeks currently living below the poverty line. They did not all end up there just because they were a bunch of lazy deadbeats - I for one don't care for that kind of effortless name-calling. And this endless bailout bullshit clearly isn't working. Along with the Greek establishment the EU should also take a long, hard look in the mirror. This is one of our member states, for crying out loud, and they're strangling it. This being said, I believe the ultimate salvation of Greece lies in one last bailout: out of the union.
I thought the poverty rate was 45% in Greece?
And yes, high time for someone to bail out of the EU and stick a fork in this shit show.
"...not a great fan of conspiracy theories..."
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Just sayin'. ;-)
...from a direction no one has ever seen before....
I can't wait till this tune is played Stateside. Don't come crying on my shoulder.
News Flash: Greece not paying!
I want the same Go to hell banner, but with the added acronyms FED BOJ BOE PBoC CIA KGB ....... NSA....
We will see. I do not want to dampen the mood but even Tsipras will recognize that he will have to make some concessions if he truly wants to remain in the eurozone (at least that is his official intention and what Greeks want to according to surveys). Personally of course I think it would be better if Greece left the doomed currency for good and starts becoming a cheap destination for German tourists this summer and all can be friends again.
I never have a near-by protest to attend.
You can make your protest - make flag or banner and go... It's simple
Geez where do you live in the woods ? there must be a concrete Jungle near, for you to protest
My major city is Detroit. I’ll get woofed up going it alone.
Are you named after a military vehicle?
Just wondering.
As the Eagles once sang, "the Greeks don't want no Freaks".
Opa, bitchez!
Well...this should get interesting.
The idiots running the Troika are the enemy of the people. Their precious assets (our debt and debt/money system) is the only thing stopping us from removing them from power. The tipping point is inevitibale, but Greeks don't have the balls to default on the Troika's debt.
who knows...
They're not exactly idiots, but they are sociopaths who think they deserve the adulation of the commoners (that's us). Thing is, nobody gets in their face to tell them otherwise, so they carry on thinking they are loved.
All Tsipras has to do is tell Merkel and Draghi to fuck off (reinstate drachma) and the whole facade of the EU collapses.
Will he do that? Nah, he's still naive enough to think that he can reform the EU- ain't happenin'.
Imagine if he did, though.
One by one, the western dick-taters would fall like dominoes, and we the people might be finally realized.
About time Lagarde gave Diadoumenos a BJ.
Troika can pack their bags and go to Kiev now...
I seem to remember a song by George Benson about Greek sex techniques, called "Turn your love around."
kind of depends how they look
As a German tax payer, my response to the Greek idiots who think that debt forgiveness is an inalienable right of anyone who lives south of the Alps as well as to all those gratuitous monkey fucks in the European bureaucracy who helped to bring this situation about: Fuck you and the horse you rode in on!
Can you please tell me why in the hell would you loan the Greeks any money. They haven't been credit-worthy in 2000+ years.
Because we're idiots and not just vis-a-vis the Greek. Formal credit risk training was taken out of German bank's training program curriculums in the mid-80s and they have not recovered since. How else would you explain that German banks sent Lehman money until the day they shut down? Stupidity and ignorance know no bounds and combined with laziness and complacency you'll get a lethal bromide indeed...
As a German tax payer, successful 3rd generation because of the 1953 allied bailout of German WW2 bank war debt, who the hell do you think you are?
yes, reduce German ( economic ) history to the allied "bailout". Germany was already one of the most technologically advanced and prosperous nations in the world before WW1, but you knew that.
Advanced and prosperous and led the world into two world wars you open sewer of halftruths
Talking about half truths... the war guilt clause of the Treaty of Versailles after WW 1 is a bit controversial...
That Germany caused WW2 is largely accepted I think. (But then there are people who argue that WW1 and WW2 are to be seen as part of one protracted conflict, which, if accepted, has implications for your assertion )
Then stretch it back to its origins - the 1870's; or further back to a religious conflict like the 30 years' war.
Regardless, zee Germans donned their pointy helmets and marched into other countries like the productive marionettes zey vere taught to be.
Versailles was meant to be a lesson after constant Teutonic military adventures that plunged the whole region into bloodletting. Bad in practice, but a good idea to start with.
Bingo. I sympathise with German taxpayers, but honestly! Anyone, a person or a state, who lends money, at interest, in expectation of a return, is a speculator. Everything that is inflated eventually deflates, and every speculator eventually looses a bet.
Maybe the answer is to retake control of our governments and tell them to stop throwing good money after bad.
The only thing dumber than lending Greeks money, would be letting New York central bankers store your gold. At least Germany isn't THAT dumb. Oh wait...
Greeke people doesn't have a choice -they are hostages of Euro system
I thought the whole Greek thing was not paying taxes.
If that changed no wonder they had a revolt.
They don't have jobs to pay taxes because of euro system...
Why the fuck were you stupid enough to loan them money in the first place? The bailouts they have been getting only serve to keep German banks solvent, not to help the Greeks. In the words of a wise US politician, Fuck the EU. It's a truly evil entity.
those were hardly the words of a
"wise" US politician.
It all has to do with context.
Nuland said those words in the context of disparaging any attempt
toward a peaceful negotiated settlement to the troubles in Ukraine.
The same words, in a different context, do "wisely" apply to EU extortion on behalf
of the banksters.
All of the Greek debt moved off the German/French balance sheets and onto the warped black hole of the ECB. Everyone in Germany is happy now, they made their money (all those nice durable goods sent to Greece and the other PIIGS) and the banks got their loans covered. I don't see why the Germans have to get all uppity about the situation now that their asses are relatively clean....
Well then say fuck you to your relatives as well. At least the Greeks didn't get into debt destroying the continent. What an asshole, it figures you're their decendant.
Right. Debt came to the Greeks overnight contagious like the common cold. Moron...
I guess like Nazism did?
With a stupid reply like that you get a stupid one in return.
Precisley my point. The Germans paid dearly for their Nazism adventure - no debt forgivenss there, believe me. Time for the Greeks to face the the same instead of whining to anyone who will listen. String up your bankers and polticians who got you into this mess if you have the balls...
Ha!
What do you think happened in the 30's with German reparations payments to the French, Brits, and Americans? What that doesn't count?
Don't be confused about this. You didn't vote for ANY of the people that gave Greece the money.
Your bitch is not with the Greeks that are reneging on the debt that their banks borrowed,
The trans-national bankers/corps are the ones putting the screws to both the Greeks AND to you.
Dude, go read your recent history of the EU. Cheap money got you here so buck up and take it like a man/woman. Debt forgiveness goes a long way: as I recall some unnammed northern european industrial giant got off the hook paying back war reparations 62 years ago....
Oh, and I personally don't feel responsible(nor my kids and grandkids) for ANY of the money my 'Government' or my 'Federal Reserve Bank' has promised to anyone....
None of us lowly 'citizens' had a single say in the matter.
Go tell it your dumbass banks who have taken your surplus and financed sub prime mortgages in the USA and Greek banks.
Two sides to every trade. You fuckers want to run a trade surplus forever and then take a sanctimonious line and bitch about the consequences?
Its not you "as a German tax-payer" who had anything to do with whats going on.
French, German, British and Dutch banks bought tons of Greek bonds. See this presentation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQuHSQXxsjM
The whole affair is about protecting them. Unless you yourself consider your own economic interests as being the same as Societe Generale and/or Deutsche Bank, nothing has actually happened to you. The ECB might bail you in and rip you off to pay for their losses ala 2008/2009 USA, but that would be a seperate issue.
The greeks in no way have anything to do with you "as a German tax payer".
I thought that atheists don't believe there is a place or state called hell.
I don't belive in Hell, unless you're talking about the World dominated by Bankers on Earth as we have it Now. When my eyes close for the final time , so far I will drift away peacefully. I don't believe in after life at all. Hell could be just at the moment when you Die, the horrors that you may or may not have inflicted on others could make that passage confusing to the former.
Sanctions next.
No problem.
Sanctions busting Greeks are Specialists.
They busted the English blockade to supply Napoleon, same goes for Rodesia and South Africa and not to mention the Iranian Oil and arms back to them.
If anything they will be richer much faster.
Sorry, dp.
Demanding more blood from a devastated country
It was the Greeks who invented love.......
but it was the Italians who introduced it to women......
Why do all dago men grow mustaches?
They take after their mothers.
I feel like this is just going to be another Animal Farm.
Well, I am quite bemused....befuddled....
So, who is going to hell? Greek or Greek's creditors?
Seems if the creditors are not sovereign ( i.e., pension funds, banks, etc), sure they are going to Hell.
If the creditors are sovereign ( country like German, or nation like group..), then Greek will go to Hell.
The ones holding the sign are Greek...so I surmise they meant creditors go to hell.....Well, Greek can certainly hope, curse...whatever...in the end, the end outcome could surpise...
"Brussels, we have a problem".
Iceland II -- Greece have the Gods to protect and defend them... A good middle finger is better than any Euro-loan or a promisary note ANY DAY!
'The German government warns Greece that it must meet its commitments to lenders,'
What's Germany going to do?? They have no teeth.
Greece can make an alliance with ISIS (teach them seafaring skills) and invade Germany.
strong message
now who's meeting Greek government payroll next Friday?
LOL - but they showed 'em
Greece.
They have a primary budget surplus.
Go fuck yourself, Merkel!
Lots of talk but more of the same. If Syriza were serious about challenging the empire, they would have run their campaign from prison like Golden Dawn.
If they are in Greece and the sign is directed at Europeans, Why is it in English?
Plus it's the only sign you can see.
...
Because the sign is a play on the UK's famous WWII slogan, and like it or not English is the defacto official language of finance and thus the banks/establishment they are railing against - with London as its centre.
This isn't particularly a complex message. It's pretty direct down to the typeface...
The first ambassador that the new Greek government received was the Russian ambassador.
My guess is the Greeks will very gladly lease a port in the Peloponnese to the Russians for 50 years in exchange for a few billion up front, favorable trade treatment, and inclusion into the BRICS bank for a $10 billion or so credit line, while they get the Drachma up and running. Sort of like debtor in posession bankruptcy financing.
It's pretty much a no brainer for Putin. Greece is being literally driven away from Europe. The EU is sacrificing its pawns to save its queen, while it's being oblivious to the checkmate that is developing.
It will be fun to watch.
+1 I like the cut of your jib.
It will be fun to watch until somebody comes along and throws a tantrum. If I remember correctly, Greece has a sizeable neo-nazi party following - a few million dollars thrown their way by the State Dept along with arms and mercs could be another Ukraine in the making. They are no strangers to military coups either.
Greece throwing off the shekels of the Troika would be a massive turning point in all of our lives throughout the world. I reckon they could bring down the squids too - nobody knows how many trillions in derivatives are tied up with Greek bonds - which will mean bye bye to the reserve currency. The new pigs have a tendency to emulate the old pigs in power, but I hope Tsipras is the real deal and keeps his head.
" Greece has a sizeable neo-nazi party following - a few million dollars thrown their way by the State Dept along with arms and mercs could be another Ukraine in the making."
There is only one catch however, these Neo-Nazis are Pro Putin and regularly say so in chats, plus they know Israel is kept by the USSA that they hold utter hatred towards them , because of the loss of Northern Cyprus. It is not easy.
Tomorrow's headline:
'Syriza Agrees to New Debt Restructuring Deal with IMF. Tsipras Resigns and Accepts Chair Position at ECB'
You all know this will happen. "If voting changed anything they'd make it illegal."
All us cynics wait to see whether Tsipras
turns out to be a Greek "Obama", another charlatan of "hope and change".
http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=grexit&cmpt= q&tz=
Been watching this for a few days. The difference in now and then is.....notetable
Why is that sign in English?
IME, when demo banners are written in English it's because they know the MSM is there and want to get their message across to Washington/Westminster. In Greek, nobody would understand and get bored.
Well it would be a matter of time before the Troika will approach the Syriza leadership in the voice like James Earl Jones breathing through a gas mask "come join with the dark side...and we will rule the stars as Father and son!"
Greeks are the cockroaches of western Europe. Sooner they are expelled, the cleaner the tenement will be.
Wonderful. Greeks voted the next muppet Alexia Tsipras & new wealth, deselected debts and reality. What remains is one little question: Who will pay for the next mess?
Related to US-size this mess means nearly 800 billion Dollars for social wealth - with no cent in the pocket.
Instead of sending this comedian immediately into a closed bughouse Greeks elected him as head of government. It seems that nothing has changed in Greece - it's the same madness which caused a debt-mountain of almost 320 billion Euro - related to US-size (only population, not economy :)) around 12 trillion Dollar based on olives, feta-cheese and mass tax-evasion....
It will be very funny the next weeks, perfect entertainment seeing this Muppet in front of new protests - millions of disillusioned Greeks.... - explaining them "sorry, it was my mistake..."
WTF?! i mean the cant do any worse than is already done
Greece has woken up.
In this brave new world bankers are in first class and the rest of us are in second.
In first class - unconditional bailouts with no strings attached and trillions of QE
In second - any bailout comes with years of punishing austerity.
It is not just Greece that has woken up, a week of anti-austerity protests in Spain just went unreported in the MSM (covered by RT).
The Spanish don't like unconditional bankers bailouts and austerity for the people either.
"No Pasaran," baby.
My guess is they are going to demand war repararations from Germany for the destruction of Greece and the mass murder of its people, hence the flower laying yesterday..
That should nicely cover the Greek debt.
Watching Germany feed the tribe with billions over 60 years. Hand them a ready made navy and God knows what - the Greeks are rightly going to demand some of the action too.
And why not?
In fact Germany owes Russia for 25,000,000 dead and the rest of us.
Owes Europe for the destruction.
Why are only the jews to be continaully 'compensated' - they didn't even fight but were largely behind the war.
Parasites..
The Greeks are broke because they overspent on a socialist-based system.
They did not make enough money to offset their social largesse.
The Banksters were more than willing to loan money due to the Greek misallocation of resources. They are, after all, Banksters.
You cannot just get rid of an Oligarch and solve all your problems. The problems are systemic in your social compact.
If you want Freedom, prepare for a period of real poverty. If you just want more money with no strings attached, well, good luck.
Too much of the Greek political theater is directed against Brussells- not w/o some justification, but, my God, Greeks, get off your asses and produce something. The Krauts MAKE STUFF. Then they export it.
Greece lived for many years on the largesse of the European social system. Now the Bill has come due and they do not want to pay. So, they elect a Communist who says they can refute their payment system.
Yes, Monies went to Greek Banksters. You want to be free of Banksters? Build a System. This goes for the US, too.
Perhaps thias may explain some things to you! http://www.firstrebuttal.com/2015/01/25/lazy-greeks-at-fault-these-two-c...
The Greeks didn't live off the largesse of Europe, the bankers lived off the Greek people!