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And the wealthy men were enthralled by Chris Kyle...The American Sniper

hedgeless_horseman's picture




 

 

I was reading Tim Knight's post on ZH about Perfect Palo Alto, and teen suicide in America. 

The heart of the issue isn't the fact that this one railroad crossing is or isn't guarded by someone. It has to do with what the kids think they have to "achieve" to be worthwhile.

 

This made me think about the movie, American Sniper, and the article I read in D Magazine about the subject of the movie, Chris Kyle.

I posted this:

There is hope. Those kids can always join the military and kill some men, women, and children that are just trying to defend their homeland from foreign invaders. This may delay suicide by a couple years, not to mention the 10% discount at Home Depot.

 

 

Who knows? If they kill enough, there may even be a book or movie deal and good times at NFL games with hedge fund managers.

I suspect that Tall Tom was referring to another ZH article in his reply:

Is 1628 the magic number? I gotta know...I gotta know.

 

That way they can feign remorse while bragging about the body count...

 

Makes for a great book and TeeVee time too.

Below is my response to Tall Tom, which I have now moved to the ZH Contributors blog in the hope it may spur some conversation on this sad matter.

160 confirmed kills has been the magic number in the past.  However, as Kyle Bass might say, past performance does not guarantee future results.

Bass invited Kyle to live at his house with him while Taya finished selling their place in San Diego. He introduced Kyle to as many “big money” people as he could. And the wealthy men were enthralled by Chris Kyle. They loved being around the legend. They loved hearing his stories and invited him to go hunting on their ranches. Bass would hold an economic summit every year at his ranch in East Texas. He would kick off the festivities by introducing his sniper friends.  

  

“I’d have Chris and other SEALs come out and do exhibition shoots,” Bass says. “They would take 600-yard shots at binary explosives, so when they hit them it’s this giant explosion that shakes the ground.” He smiles as he tells the story. “For all the people that manage money all over the world and on Wall Street to come to Texas and see a Navy SEAL sniper shoot a bomb, it’s about as cool as it gets.”
 

I wish I could get Kyle Bass and all the people that manage money all over the world and on Wall Street to watch this 18-minute video by Sam Richards.  Maybe then they might begin to understand why Chris Kyle was killed by another veteran, and why more US soldiers are dying from suicide than are killed by the enemy

 

And maybe then Wall Street and The City might decide to direct their whores in Washington and London to get our sons and daughters out of Afghanistan, which is the longest war in American history.

Now, that would be about as cool as it gets, in my opinion.

For those that think this is a derailing of the Palo Alto suicide thread, just think for a moment about Tim's point in the article on Palo Alto.

"It has to do with what the kids think they have to "achieve" to be worthwhile."

What American Sniper Chris Kyle "achieved" to become a hero is not so vastly different than what Russian Sniper Vasily Zaytsev "achieved" to become a hero. 

Read these two books if you want to better understand.

http://www.amazon.com/Stalingrad-The-Fateful-Siege-1942-1943/dp/01402845...

http://www.amazon.com/American-Sniper-Autobiography-Military-History/dp/...

However, the morality of a nation matters. 

The morality of a fight matters, as was taught to a young Chris Kyle by his father, and to me by my father.

It always has. 

It always will.

As Bastiat says in, The Law:

Each of us has a natural right — from God — to defend his person, his liberty, and his property. These are the three basic requirements of life, and the preservation of any one of them is completely dependent upon the preservation of the other two.

We do not have the natural right to attack others, imprison others, and to take or destroy others property...even if it is profitable to do so...and even if not doing so may endanger our nation's ability to enforce the petrol dollar.

Get us out of Afghanistan.

Get us out of Iraq.

Get us out of Syria.

Get us out of Bahrain.

Get us out of Saudi Arabia.

Get us out of Yemen.

Get us out of Ukraine.

Stop the drone war.

 

Peace be with you.


 

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Tue, 01/27/2015 - 20:26 | 5713642 Dickweed Wang
Dickweed Wang's picture

They laugh about it; it's fun. If you don't get that straight; you're never going to figure out what's going on.

Oh I "got it figured out". I said I didn't like it or agree with it. If this country is to survive more people need to get it "figured out" as well . . . .

Tue, 01/27/2015 - 17:44 | 5712941 GIABO
GIABO's picture

kiss ass to a baby killing war criminal lying stooge? Fuc you talking to?

Tue, 01/27/2015 - 17:42 | 5712936 Blood Spattered...
Blood Spattered Banner's picture

From what I hear the first scene in Iraq shows Kyle debating on whether or not to kill a Mommy Turrist before she gives her kid a hand grenade.  His spotter says something to the effect of "If you're wrong on this, they'll send you to Leavenworth."  LOL, and I'm the fucking Easter Bunny.

I was assuming suspension of disbelief wasn't required for this "gripping portrayal of war in the middle east", but apparently I was wrong.  

Tue, 01/27/2015 - 17:38 | 5712924 sidiji
sidiji's picture

too bad he didnt accidentally shoot Kass and make him explode...the jackass is so full of hot air

Tue, 01/27/2015 - 17:40 | 5712892 Gringo Viejo
Gringo Viejo's picture

Everybody has an opinion. And my opinion is that most of us at ZH would have to stand on our mothers' shoulders just to kiss Chris Kyle's ass. Easy holdin' the high moral ground when you're a keyboard commando.

Tue, 01/27/2015 - 23:45 | 5714418 Vooter
Vooter's picture

Nobody cares.

Tue, 01/27/2015 - 23:15 | 5714303 Salsipuedes
Salsipuedes's picture

Speak for yourself and kiss what you will geezer sir. He was a bullshit artist and it's all another war mongering psy-op. Go back to sleep Gringo.

Tue, 01/27/2015 - 21:09 | 5713767 BigSpruce
BigSpruce's picture

I lived in the woods in Vermont in a cabin for six years with no running water or electricity. Heated only with wood. Worked in the woods as a logger during that time. I can assure you Chris Kyles ass would have been mighty cold on those -20 mornings when he had to take a shit in the ole outhouse. Quite frankly any one can be a tough guy if you have  big enough guns backing you up. Its the true test of a mans mettle when hes forced to exist under tough circumstances and has nothing to fall back onto except his own wits and tenacity

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 01:56 | 5714730 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

Lots of real men here

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 02:01 | 5714735 Salsipuedes
Salsipuedes's picture

Tried to hit on my wife did ya?

Tue, 01/27/2015 - 20:08 | 5713564 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

If that was true you'd be reaching just as tall to kiss Osama Bin Laden's anus.

Terrorist is a terrorist is a terrorist - killing other people's children for laughs and/or orders is terrorism.

Period.

Tue, 01/27/2015 - 18:30 | 5713163 Gringo Viejo
Gringo Viejo's picture

Obviously struck a nerve. Hope you get to trade live fire up close and personal.

Try not to shit yourselves.

Tue, 01/27/2015 - 23:50 | 5714432 Vooter
Vooter's picture

"Hope you get to trade live fire up close and personal."

Wait...let me get all tatted up and then fuck my sister in the ass while I blow kisses to a picture of Jesus, our Lord and Savior...

The dissolution of this shit-hole country can't happen fast enough...

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 03:22 | 5714825 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

You have so much strengthened your argument. bravo

Tue, 01/27/2015 - 20:08 | 5713565 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

The number 1 world-terrorists are American troops, you must face the truth.

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 03:20 | 5714823 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

Just for the sake of argument....for me terrorists as is the common use would make me think of someone who deliberately kills people not directly involved in violence, not carrying weapons, not strapped with explosives, not throwing bombs or otherwise targeting noncombatants. For whatever you might think of American tropps, I'm am not aware that this is their common practice, and rules of engagement pretty much prevent them from firing on people unless they have provable provocation. Now I will not say this is always the case, we know its not. But i think I could safely call you a fucking liar if you were to suggest that this is our troop's policy. Maybe you don't see the difference, but given war is pretty definitional, I think there is a difference. To call our military terrorists is stupid and only demonstrates the shallowness of your argument. As stupid as to suggest that we should have empathy for someone who kills because of perceived insults to their god.

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 14:16 | 5716572 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

"common use would make me think of someone who deliberately kills people not directly involved in violence, not carrying weapons, not strapped with explosives"

That is common practice for American troops: kill civilians, children, unarmed.

Tue, 01/27/2015 - 20:50 | 5713744 Overfed
Overfed's picture

More like the American and Israeli governments.

Tue, 01/27/2015 - 18:30 | 5713173 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

 

 

This is exactly the type of non-response I have come to expect from you.

Tue, 01/27/2015 - 19:26 | 5713404 Shitgum Suicide
Shitgum Suicide's picture

If that's not the pot calling the kettle black!

Tue, 01/27/2015 - 18:48 | 5713239 Gringo Viejo
Gringo Viejo's picture

Your expectations keep me up at night.

My "point" in my original post was tht ALL are entitled to opinion.

Adding to my opinion, I'd state my belief that when it all goes to shit here in the good 'ole US of A (and I've no doubt it will), you "huffington post types" are going to be taking it up the ass...and not just figuratively.

Tue, 01/27/2015 - 18:09 | 5713050 Dickweed Wang
Dickweed Wang's picture

Everybody has an opinion. And my opinion is that most of us at ZH would have to stand on our mothers' shoulders just to kiss Chris Kyle's ass. Easy holdin' the high moral ground when you're a keyboard commando.

You mean to tell me that since I wasn't directly involved in the Iraq war or didn't serve as a Seal sniper that I'm not entitled to state my opinion on matters like this?  Your view is EXACTLY the type of response that TPTB want people to have - Edward Bernays is laughing his ass off in hell right now!  Keep watching FOX Neus pal . . . .

Tue, 01/27/2015 - 18:32 | 5713179 me again
me again's picture

Edward Bernays is definetly laughing his ass off in hell; he was firmly of the opinion that the american masses were stupid and easily brainwashed, and then he went on to invent modern advertising and proved it; and made millions of dollars doing it;l and he despised the bulk of the population.  The Movie was pure propaganda. A big recruiting poster.

Tue, 01/27/2015 - 18:09 | 5712957 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

 

 

Everybody has an opinion...Easy holdin' the high moral ground when you're a keyboard commando.

Here are four opinions that are stated in my article:

And maybe then Wall Street and The City might decide to direct their whores in Washington and London to get our sons and daughters out of Afghanistan, which is the longest war in American history...Now, that would be about as cool as it gets, in my opinion.

 

...the morality of a nation matters

 

The morality of a fight matters...

 

We do not have the natural right to attack others, imprison others, and to take or destroy others property...even if it is profitable to do so...and even if not doing so may endanger our nation's ability to enforce the petrol dollar.

Do you disagree with any of them?

Regarding your keyboard commando comment, I stand ready, willing, and able to meet you out at TJ's place East of Waco, any day of the week that he will let us shoot.  I'll leave my keyboard in my office.

Tue, 01/27/2015 - 20:26 | 5713641 Quantum Nucleonics
Quantum Nucleonics's picture

Would it be more moral to wait till the bad guys are storming office buildings in Anytown, USA before killing them?

Would it be more moral to wait till the bad guys are dangerous enough that the use of nuclear weapons would be required to defeat them?

Would it be more moral to let our friends and allies be annihilated, reminding them that their sacrifice is worth preserving our virtuous morality.

War is never moral.  But, it's naive to think it is never necessary.

Without commenting on the merits of recent conflicts, I'll note that in Iraq since 2003 there have been less than roughly 20,000 violent deaths per year (well, before ISIS conflict) compare to more than 50,000 deaths per year between 1980 and 2003, during Saddam Hussein's reign.

Tue, 01/27/2015 - 22:38 | 5714204 Mike in GA
Mike in GA's picture

"Would it be more moral to let our friends and allies be annihilated, reminding them that their sacrifice is worth preserving our virtuous morality[?]"

I'm in your corner, Quantum.  These lefties want the free world to capitulate to the existential threats so they feel warmed by their "moralityl".   

War is never moral.  But, it's naive to think it is never necessary.

Our president presently negotiates with our sworn enemy Iran, as they continue to accelerate their nuclear weapons production capability.  Enemies without and within.  

We need more snipers, not fewer.

Tue, 01/27/2015 - 23:54 | 5714445 Vooter
Vooter's picture

"Our president presently negotiates with our sworn enemy Iran, as they continue to accelerate their nuclear weapons production capability."

LOL...when did they become our "sworn enemy," and why shouldn't they have nuclear capability? We do...Israel does...why shouldn't they?

Christ, you really can't make this shit up...

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 11:33 | 5715785 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

I think Iran did the "swearing". Remember, big Satan and Little Satan and all that? The fact that Iran now has missles capable of reaching America and has many times dedicated themselves publicly to our destruction gives you no cause to pause...for even a moment?

Tue, 01/27/2015 - 20:49 | 5713738 Overfed
Overfed's picture

You really believe the MSM war propaganda, don't you?

Tue, 01/27/2015 - 18:18 | 5713097 Shitgum Suicide
Shitgum Suicide's picture

http://m.imdb.com/title/tt0078788/quotes

I've seen horrors... horrors that you've seen. But you have no right to call me a murderer. You have a right to kill me. You have a right to do that... but you have no right to judge me. It's impossible for words to describe what is necessary to those who do not know what horror means. Horror... Horror has a face... and you must make a friend of horror. Horror and moral terror are your friends. If they are not, then they are enemies to be feared. They are truly enemies! I remember when I was with Special Forces... seems a thousand centuries ago. We went into a camp to inoculate some children. We left the camp after we had inoculated the children for polio, and this old man came running after us and he was crying. He couldn't see. We went back there, and they had come and hacked off every inoculated arm. There they were in a pile. A pile of little arms. And I remember... I... I... I cried, I wept like some grandmother. I wanted to tear my teeth out; I didn't know what I wanted to do! And I want to remember it. I never want to forget it... I never want to forget. And then I realized... like I was shot... like I was shot with a diamond... a diamond bullet right through my forehead. And I thought, my God... the genius of that! The genius! The will to do that! Perfect, genuine, complete, crystalline, pure. And then I realized they were stronger than we, because they could stand that these were not monsters, these were men... trained cadres. These men who fought with their hearts, who had families, who had children, who were filled with love... but they had the strength... the strength... to do that. If I had ten divisions of those men, our troubles here would be over very quickly. You have to have men who are moral... and at the same time who are able to utilize their primordial instincts to kill without feeling... without passion... without judgment... without judgment! Because it's judgment that defeats us.

Tue, 01/27/2015 - 18:11 | 5713056 Dickweed Wang
Dickweed Wang's picture

BRAVO!!!  Get me the airfare and I will join you any day of the week.

Tue, 01/27/2015 - 17:03 | 5712736 GIABO
GIABO's picture

America is nothing more than a Roman outpost before the fall of empire. 

Tue, 01/27/2015 - 18:37 | 5713214 me again
me again's picture

During the fall of the Empire; it took awhile; but yes. very good.

Tue, 01/27/2015 - 16:58 | 5712705 lamont cranston
lamont cranston's picture

Re Saytsev - Enemy at the Gates was on one of the Cinemax channels recently. Hell of a movie. And, he operated at close quarters and risked his life daily, not some mile away with a spotter to boot. 

He blew that Hollywood pinko Ed Harris away at the end. 

Tue, 01/27/2015 - 18:34 | 5713194 Whalley World
Whalley World's picture

I have to agree with you, Saytsev was shooting German soldiers to instill fear and demoralization.  It had a positive effect.  American snipers have no chance of gaining respect as they are not defendign their own counrty but rather are part of an occupation force.

Tue, 01/27/2015 - 18:40 | 5713224 cfosnock
cfosnock's picture

Speak for yourself...obvious your wrong based on the fanfare of the film, and respect and admiration achieved by most US snipers, past and present.

Tue, 01/27/2015 - 23:57 | 5714457 Vooter
Vooter's picture

Piles of shit get lots of admiration from flies, too...

Tue, 01/27/2015 - 18:22 | 5713114 cfosnock
cfosnock's picture

That never happened...no sniper named König has ever been identified in the German records. FYI next time mention Simo Häyhä AKA "White Death."

Tue, 01/27/2015 - 23:57 | 5714452 lamont cranston
lamont cranston's picture

Thx. And, no doubt that Nikita K. was falsified in the movie. But, laying in dead bodies to whack Krauts is true from what I can find online. But, hey, great scene at the end. VS was a BADASS, and if we think we can take on Boris & Natasha, we're fu**ed. Where's the CNN dateline on the whupass going on in Eastern Ukraine. Of which, remember the line in the movie, "...just like we feel about the Ukrainians!"

I'll look up Hayha. Appreciated, cfsonock.

Free beer to you if you're ever in Blowing Rock, the succulent capital of the Blue Ridge. 

Tue, 01/27/2015 - 16:51 | 5712672 Uchtdorf
Uchtdorf's picture

In 1976 Spencer W. Kimball said:

When I review the performance of this people…..I am appalled and frightened…

We are a warlike people, easily distracted from our assignment of preparing for the coming of the Lord. When enemies rise up, we commit vast resources to the fabrication of gods of stone and steel—ships, planes, missiles, fortifications—and depend on them for protection and deliverance. When threatened, we align ourselves against the enemy instead of aligning ourselves with the kingdom of God; we train a man in the art of war and call him a patriot, thus, in the manner of Satan’s counterfeit of true patriotism, perverting the Savior’s teaching:

Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven.” (Matt. 5:44–45.)

 

In 2005 Gordon B. Hinckley said:

I know of no other writing which sets forth with such clarity the tragic consequences to societies that follow courses contrary to the commandments of God. Its pages trace the stories of two distinct civilizations that flourished on the Western Hemisphere. Each began as a small nation, its people walking in the fear of the Lord. But with prosperity came growing evils. The people succumbed to the wiles of ambitious and scheming leaders who oppressed them with burdensome taxes, who lulled them with hollow promises, who countenanced and even encouraged loose and lascivious living. These evil schemers led the people into terrible wars that resulted in the death of millions and the final and total extinction of two great civilizations in two different eras.

Tue, 01/27/2015 - 23:58 | 5714461 lamont cranston
lamont cranston's picture

He is smart despite being a moron, oops Mormon. Whay would anyone want more than one wife. Bring'em Young baby.

Tue, 01/27/2015 - 23:15 | 5714312 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

reminds me of a story a guy was telling me yesterday. He owns some property in Mexico and wants to sell it but can't because of the ongoing violence. He was telling my how the church on the area was being harassed by the local drug lord who threatened the preacher to stop preaching. The preacher continued in his sermons of peace and they found him lacking his head at the foot of his podium. He carried his nonviolence with him to the end. There are forces of evil out there that will use any prophecy of peace to their advantage. How do you contest that, turn the other cheek? Sure we got a lot of evil shit wars gong on and surely none of them are necessary, but for those who have ever been in a fight, were they necessary? Could they have been avoided? Could you have hidden till the threat went away? Does a threat ever go away when you hide from it?

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 11:05 | 5715658 Uchtdorf
Uchtdorf's picture

Certainly a tough call in the scenarios you mention, but while wars of aggression are not acceptable, we are justified in defending ourselves. Always. But I'm referring to pure defense, not picking a fight "over there" and then shooting the guy who comes to settle the score.

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 11:29 | 5715771 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

The time for empathy and judgement are before the fight. Once the fight has started, empathy will get you killed.

Tue, 01/27/2015 - 16:46 | 5712642 BullyBearish
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Who are we anymore?  What is an "American" these days?  Has the internet just opened our eyes to what we've really been all along or were we really the Shining Light for good reason and something horribly changed?  My whole life has been spent here and I am frustrated in not now being able to state why now is a good time to be an American.

Tue, 01/27/2015 - 17:30 | 5712882 messystateofaffairs
messystateofaffairs's picture

America is what she has always been since you wrested the land away from the red man. Along the way a few enlightened men gave you an enlightened constitution, at least one of them was doubtful about the American peoples ability to keep it. It was only a historic anomaly that is ending.

Tue, 01/27/2015 - 19:21 | 5713383 me again
me again's picture

--Has ended."  Yes. Very good.

Tue, 01/27/2015 - 16:31 | 5712561 Shitgum Suicide
Shitgum Suicide's picture

HH just to be clear sir. The attitude others and myself have for you is that we used to read your arguments in the debate and respect you for the differences of your opinions because we viewed you as one of the peanut gallery. Then you got posting priviliges to show your veggies and farm fresh cheeses which is nice but the average poster did not. Oh well.

Then you, as well as cognitive dissonance, got to write articles for ZH and we have to wonder why. It then comes clear that your rants were more shilling than being objective so the trust was broken.

Just like the Tyler's banning people for free speech once they sold the site to someone else. It's no longer fight club and more like propagating anti-American, pro-Russian stories with dubious authors.

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 02:46 | 5714789 Salsipuedes
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Et tu Shitgum?

Tue, 01/27/2015 - 20:17 | 5713602 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

Being anti-murder and anti-terrorism isn't being anti-American unless you truly believe American terrorism is morally good and right just because it's from America.

This is terrorism, it is unholy mass murder and it can not be defended by any but Satan.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!