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Medvedev Warns Of "Unlimited Reaction" If Russia Cut From SWIFT
While nations around the world continue to de-dollarize, Russia signed into law its anti-crisis plan today (though details will not be released until tomorrow). Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev, however, was quite vociferous in some of his threats, warning The West that the "Russian response - economically and otherwise - will know no limits" if Russia is cut off from the SWIFT payments system. Additionally, as Royce, the chairman of the House foreign affairs committee, explains Iran nuclear talks "appear to be stalemated," just days after Iran completes its de-dollarization and news today, that Russia and Iran plan to create a mutual account for bilateral payments in national currencies.
Western countries’ threats to restrict Russia’s operations through the SWIFT international bank transaction system will prompt Russia’s counter-response without limits, Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev said on Tuesday.
"We’ll watch developments and if such decisions are made, I want to note that our economic reaction and generally any other reaction will be without limits," he said.
In late August 2014, media reports said the UK had proposed banning Russia from the SWIFT network as part of an upcoming new round of sanctions against Moscow over its stance on developments in neighboring Ukraine. However, this proposal was not supported by the EU countries at the time.
After recent shelling of the Ukrainian city of Mariupol some western countries again started calling to disconnect Russia from SWIFT.
SWIFT transaction system
The Society for Worldwide Interbank Financial Telecommunications (SWIFT) transmits 1.8 billion transactions a year, remitting payment orders worth $6 trillion a day. The system comprises over 10,000 financial organizations from 210 countries.
Under the SWIFT charter, groups of members and users are set up in each country covered by the system. In Russia, these groups are united in the RosSWIFT association.
* * *
Russia intends to have its own international inter-bank system up and running by May 2015. The Central of Russia says it needs to speed up preparations for its version of SWIFT in case of possible ”challenges” from the West.
"Given the challenges, Bank of Russia is creating its own system for transmitting financial messaging... It’s time to hurry up, so in the next few months we will have certain work done. The entire project for transmitting financial messages will be completed in May 2015," said Ramilya Kanafina, deputy head of the national payment system department at the Central Bank of Russia (CBR).
* * *
As Reuters reports, Russia's isolation appears to be shrinking...
Russia and Iran plan to create a mutual account for bilateral payments in national currencies, RIA news agency quoted Mehdi Sanaei, Iran's ambassador to Moscow, as saying.
"Both sides plan to create a mutual bank or a mutual account to make payments in rials and roubles possible," the ambassador said.
* * *
Quickly followed by:
- *SHELBY SAYS MORE PRESSURE ON IRAN NEEDED FOR `VIABLE' DEAL
- *ROYCE SAYS IRAN NUCLEAR TALKS `APPEAR TO BE STALEMATED'
- *CHAIRMAN ROYCE OF HOUSE FOREIGN AFFAIRS HOLD IRAN HEARING
- *OBAMA, SAUDI KING DISCUSSED IRAN NUCLEAR NEGOTIATIONS: OFFICIAL
* * *
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Excellent and succinct comment on a complex situation.
It's rather simple from a Russian perspective. Why get prodded into war when all they have to do is outlast the economically corrupt and broken West. I don't believe they are exercising restraint. This is all about application of practical economics and who can withstand the most suffering. The Russians have proven time and again that they can outlast their opposition when it comes to hardship.
While it is obvious that VV Putins pacifism spared us the worst till now, in my opinion the key of the situation is to be found in the politburo in Beijing.
I cannot guess what is the essence of their strategic thought about the current slow fall of the US empire, but it seems that they have chosen to not precipitate it by overt financial manouvering.
VV Putin and the chinese politburo seem to think on a very long term, geological by current western standards.
The facts are;
-Yanukovich was overthrown by a nationalist/US state dept coup with tacit russian approval.
-Russia re-appropriated Crimea, which with Donbass is the only region of potential economic viability.
-Ukraine is a failed, deeply flawed state on the verge of bankruptcy, even moreso now, with the idiotic, useless and possibly never-ending war going on.
-Since the catastrophic failure of ATO operations last year, US is trying to drop this giant turd into NATO/EU lap, when neither Merkel nor Hollande wants to have anything to do with it.Only the corrupt and moronic polish so-called govt seems to play along with the US and even then the polish domestic reactions start to strongly diverge from the MSM line nowadays.
-Cui bono...certainly not the US, as the economic sanctions against russia have only managed to create a long-lasting alliance between Russia and China, which frankly is a catastrophe for western diplomacy, on the long term.
-Who pays for the war in NR? Certainly not the EU, as they are pretty broke themselves and dont have any armements to send to Ukr without seriously endangering their own strategic reserves.
The so-called zionist complex in the US seems to be pushing for a limited nuclear exchange in europe with a vision of the aftermath when they arrive with another Marshall Plan.
Which is of course is pure dementia, for too many reasons to list here, but mainly for the fact that even if the weapons are fired from Ukr soil, the return volley will target important targets around the world, oil fields, carrier groups, centers of command.
Then I can imagine a russo-chinese ultimatum: no third volley or we fire our strategic reserve and end this clownery once and for all....
Military fiction, of course, but in line with soviet nuclear doctrine from the seventies.
+10. Other than securing warm-water ports the Russians have never gone on an invasion binge except during the Soviet era in Hungary and Czechoslovakia.
What frightened the USS Donald Cook so much in the Black Sea that they turned tail and ran?
http://www.voltairenet.org/article185860.html
No. The Russians have targeted EMP and have used it to disable the latest US toys.
Yes, but, not to reveal too much, you could knock out 1 ship but the others would lock in on you. The boat was on its own, it was not in a designed squadron.
They do not have a Hitler Super Weapon.
You are also not counting on US ECM operations in use at the same time.
It's very easy to pick off 1 ship in the Black Sea and jam. It shows you have some Big Stuff, but not 25th century technology.
But look, My main concern is NO American or Russian kids die.
This does NOT have to happen.
Try to look at it from other points of view than the simplistic Russians bad, Americans good meme. Where are the most natural resources in Ukraine? Putin need not do anything other than sit back and watch Kiev self-destruct because that part of the country does not control anything of value other than farmland.
My God, man, read the story.
In the order of battle, the first weapons used are EMPs.
BATTLE
Like, we are Going To Fucking War!
That is why they have not been deployed.
You are not ex-11Bravo, are you?
These are not weapons you throw over the fence. They are highly classified, and must be deployed only by trained units.
Sorry, did not want to make you mad, but jeez.
Speaking of fortruss.blogspot.com... MUST READ.
The Western powers didn't think this would stay under wraps forever, did they?
http://fortruss.blogspot.com/2014/12/meet-pilot-who-shot-down-malysian.html
- Can you tell us his name?
- Last name Voloshin.
- Was he alone in the airplane?
- Yes. The airplane is designed for one person.
- Do you know his name?
- Vladislav, I think. Don't remember exactly. Captain.
- Captain Voloshin came back. What happened next?
- Came back with blank ammunition.
- No missiles left?
- Yes.
"NOT THE RIGHT PLANE"
This is not new news, although it's the first time I've seen a photo of the Ukraine pilot.
If MH-17 wasn't shot down by the Ukraine, why has every Western government gone so quiet on the subject? And why is the NL government stalling so much in its investigation?
First time I actually saw that article. I completely unplugged from the Internet over the Holidays.
Kewl. This giant criminal conspiracy involving Washington/Westminster/NL/Brussels/NATO and others at the highest levels needs maximum publicity. I'm surprised the pilot hasn't met with an accident already. There's nothing like being dead to prevent him from admitting what he did and who gave the order.
anti-crisis
where did i read this words before
"There is a broader reason it would be dangerous to accept Russia’s actions as the new normal. We have seen this playbook before. Before eastern Ukraine, we saw it in Crimea. And before Crimea, we saw it in the Georgian regions of Abkhazia and South Ossetia. Before Georgia, in Transnistria. The endgame in all of these Moscow-manufactured crises has been identical: to gobble up parts of neighboring countries and to create frozen conflicts. And Russia is consistently working to put these frozen conflicts under a deeper freeze. In recent weeks, for example, at the same time as Russia was flouting its Minsk agreements, President Putin was putting the finishing touches on another set of agreements – the so-called “treaties of alliance” – with de facto authorities in Abkhazia and South Ossetia. These treaties will compound years of violations to Georgia’s sovereignty and territorial integrity.
What is frozen in these conflicts? Instability is frozen. Violations of sovereignty are frozen. Militarization is frozen. In sum, all the problems that the United Nations, and the Security Council in particular, were created to address, are frozen. If Russia succeeds in achieving its aims, if we allow this behavior to become the new normal, this will not be the last time Russia uses this well-worn playbook." ....US Amb. Powers, Jan. 21st at UN
Apart from the fact that she's got it 180 degrees the wrong way round. But I think the world has gotten used to the lies and knows exactly who the warmonger is.
Hey dooshbag - Powers is a self avowed communist. Putin and Medeved are not.
Who is Powers married to? What is that asswipe's background. Do some homework before you post here.
Yeah, Samantha Power is a kook. What's your point?
First, RT is rated terrorist grade propaganda, later, Russia proper, is downgraded to junk.
I find the Russians are almost scary in their reserve.
Great, the west has just accelerated the de-dollarization. Way to go.
Easy. Until November of 2016, every news story such as this one has to be read with the idea in mind that Hillary Clinton is not only somehow involved, but that she somehow benefits from the story being published.
the empire is bankin' on rosie the riveter. ship of fools.
Ugh. FSB Tyler and Putin's band of ZH fluffers have ruined this blog.
Amen
So Quantum Nuc and Solarman, if you don't like ZH, go and expand your circle jerk on Yahoo and join mouth breathing morons who think FOX news and CNN are different, LOL>
Hmm, or.... we could just have FSB Tyler go away and bring back Marla and the Tyler that talked about CDS spreads, i.e. go back to what made this blog interesting and relevant in the first place.
Funny how an autocratic, dictatorial, American oligarghy is BAD, but a Russian one is good? 34 useful idiots for Russian nationalism and counting....
If the West cuts Russia off from SWIFT then Russia has absolutely NOTHING to lose in the economic-quickly-turning-to-hot-war with the West.
You'll see a SWIFT (pardon the pun), broad and furious response from Russia et al against the West. They can take down our banking, top corporate entities, and infrastructure in a devastating counter-attack.
Shit-for-brains assholes in DC had better think very, very carefully before they jab the Russian Bear in the ass with this SWIFT weapon.
Nyet on your sanctions we go elsewhere
I hope the West provokes the Bear, so that one and for all they can create a new international trading system based on precious metals, oil and gas, and swapping currencies between partners, instead of propping up the west criminal banksters. Could you imagine how popular a system would become if, for example, americans could transfer money without the scrutiny of the USSA?
Who will be next? Switzerland?
NOVOSIBIRSK, January 28 (Sputnik) — Russian banks have been forced to cancel contracts with their US clients due to the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA), law that requires foreign banks to provide information on US citizens' banking activities, a senior Russian official said Wednesday.
The FATCA, which became law in 2010, requires foreign banks to report information on some US clients. If a bank does not comply, it may be subject to a fine. Moscow and Washington were negotiating a FATCA deal acceptable for both sides until March 2014, when the United States suspended the talks over the Ukraine crisis.
"We could not put our national security under risk in this case, this is why a rule was adopted, under which every credit services organization may cancel the contracts with its clients, the US residents, and avoid FATCA regulations this way," Deputy Director of Russia's Federal Financial Monitoring Service Pavel Livadny told journalists.
Livadny added that the banks are now obliged to inform the Russian Central Bank, the Federal Financial Monitoring Service, and the Federal Tax Service of such clients.
"The credit organizations prefer to part with such clients, rather than stay under pressure from US tax laws," Livadny added.
US Congress enacted FATCA to make it more difficult for US taxpayers to conceal assets held in offshore accounts and shell corporations, and thus to recoup federal tax revenues.
germany is the only way
You mean, joigning the BRICS is the only way for Germany !
only way to peace. Germans are trying to play against usa for decade, but can't take advantage.
I pity the Russians, their leaders still have their heads in the 70's, and their economy is also stuck there ...
Whereas the US, EU and Ukraine have their heads elsewhere
http://www.image.kg/images/2014/09/18/su4j.jpg
This isn't one of these phantom threats Americans love so much. This is real. Russia CAN crash the EU with one simple action: cut the gas, even for, say, three months.
And if the UE crashes, the domino effect will bring the USA down too. World market stampede guaranteed.
Did you miss the part where Russia has ALREADY turned off 60% of it's EU gas deliveries by closing the transit through Ukraine and noone gave a shit?
Did you miss the part where that was a mistakingly referenced article from 2009.?
The actual story is that Russia will shut off gas transit through Ukraine as soon as the new Turkish pipline is completed.
Yes, so far (due to E.U. accumulated gas stockpiles) but for how long they will last when the reduction is 100%...?
Oh everyone calm down! Joe Biden says the US will just export the diff! He should know, he's a Jesuit.
Medvedev is an Atlanticist (Russian Liberal). The fact he is the one delivering the message conveys that Russia is not fooling around.
Obama whispered to Medvedev to tell Putin that he would be more flexible after the Presidential elections. Just like ObamaCare would save money and provide better healthcare,.
Join the club Medvedev.
"it's really sore, Vlad."
"I have some KY here. What did you expect? He lies to his own people and they don't get KY."
"I'll suck it up (determined look.)"
"Hey we have our Tag team coming up. I'll let you get revenge."
So this is just a threat and not to be taken seriously?
"Cut off our access to dollars/euros and yen and we will attack Ukraine"?
This makes no sense. Russia will get none of these things if they formally invade Ukraine.
Britain, Germany, Sweden, Japan...okay I understand now.
I did like the whole " NATO Legions" thing.
Why make any threats at all?
Very confusing.
Medvedev is the West's pal. So he delivering this message amounts to saying: Dudes, chill out with the sanctions, cause the bros over here are playing for keeps.
Russia won't attack Ukraine. It already got Crimea without firing a shot. Rump Ukraine is EU/USA's problem now.
I would personaly prefer to see Spetznaz securing the nuclear power plants to prevent a false flag. But I don't think that will happen. The Ukie oligarchs already downed a civilian airplane, so I wouldn't put it past them.
To me a retaliation would be shutting off gas, coupled with debt default and extending a nuclear umbrella over Iran. To prevent that from happening, Israel will keep the US on a short leash. Another tell would be Brezinski getting topped as revenge for Afghanistan.
I pity these Vichy DC /NeoCON / EUseless Stasi who realise the PONZI is up with The Rest of The World ditching them one by one.
The sheer cost/maintenance of their brutal security operation is weighing down on them and getting heavier and heavier by the week.
For all their puppetry media outlets everyone sees through the facade and they're beginning to look like a $20 hooker in need of a $10 fix.
It's SAD so SAD because the citizenry have been taken in big time and the shock that's on it's way will be hard to swallow.
At least .Gov have invested in a huge amount of ammo that will keep the sheep at bay for a few months.
( grungy alley in Hawaii in a few years)
Hey, aren't you..Bath House Barry?
Yeah. Hey, a BJ, 10 Rubles.
Nah.
How' 'bout 5 yuan for a fix, buddy?
This defiance will not be allowed to stand.
Signed,
Rothschild Bank of London
Rothschild Bank of Berlin
Warburg Bank of Hamburg
Warburg Bank of Amsterdam
Lazard Brothers of Paris
Israel Moses Seif Banks of Italy
Chase Manhattan Bank of New York
Goldman, Sachs of New York
Lehman Brother of New York(deceased)?
Kuhn Loeb Bank of New York(?)
More Russian misogyny. Taylor Swift is not yours. You can't own a human being. My body, my choice.
I'd take some of those hot russian babes over any entitled USA girl, anytime.
When "American Sniper" is the President, Congress and Justice Department and nobody else that elects them is "home"!!!
To the Prime Minister of Russia.
Keep doing what you're doing in financial circles but definitely need to "do more" to stop what NATO is doing to you in Ukraine!...
Time to get out your "medieval spanking machine" for the unwelcome guests in your neighborhood!
Long, long overdue!!!
USSA: Burn, baby, burn!
Can we just settle all this with a pay-per-view cage fight between the big O and the big P? Proceeds to be put into a solid gold trophy to be awarded by the Tylers! How about it, ZH'ers?
I want a tag-team with O and Reggie vs Vlad and Med.
<<Above everything else, the American people want leaders who will keep the peace.>>
the only message the west will get is this:
1) the russians for some reason have ordered the evacuation of all cites.
2) " " " " " " cut off all communications w/the west.
3) " " " " " " ordered all males 16+ to 65 to active duty within 24 hrs, and all armed forces to defcon max.
"I see it now, Sir. It's a Russian Swan. And, it's Black."
Fuck I wish i'd hurry up and get abducted by aliens.
If an American president said the U.S.'s reaction would be "without limits", the international community would rightfully be upset and annoyed at such undiplomatic and irresponsible language.
Here, however, Zero Hedge and the rest of Russia is apparently onboard with it.
Hilarious!
Lots of Euro dudes that dont want to provoke Russia lest they lose their natgas.
Russia is the one pulling the clown shit with Ukraine, Syria and Iran, but yeah, America=bad/fat/weak
Fuck Off. Amerika has been acting immoraly, unconscionably and insanely "without limits" since 911- terrorizing the world, killing millions, creating 15 million refugees - so once again -Fuck off you ignoramus
Sorry Bob, have to tell it like it is.
You silly goose!
"Amerika has been acting immoraly, unconscionably and insanely "without limits" since 911"
The U.S. has been acting immorally and unconscionably as the agressor for a century. Wilson entering WWI unprovoked, FDR's naval blockade of Japan preceding Pearl Harbor, Gulf of Tonkin incident, coups and assassinations too many to list in Latin America, etc. etc. Sticking our nose in everyone elses business and making small conflicts into very large and prolonged conflicts.The US has been the Angel of death.
I volunteered back in 1969 as a naive young lad.
But live long enough and you see the patterns.
Crimea River. Comsidering how much bellingerent bullshit Emperor Obama spews against Russia: Pot. Kettle. Kenyan Negro
Bath House Barry.
World Joke.
G Bush, right after 9/11:
"You are either with us or against us, motherfuckers. Have some courtesy or I'll lay your place to waste."
Typical American bravado BS. Yes they have laid waste to much of the Middle East - I'm hoping
that there will be a very HIGH price for ALL the sins commited.
Russia will look after its self - it's not a pushover that the Bully is used to dealing with.
I hope they crash the Comex for starters - that would be a graet start.
We'll see - -- - -
Absolutely. The Americans control the Financial markets all over the world. And they have done a piss poor job of it. Many Americans don't have jobs but the Millitary will offer jobs to those who want work as Minnions for the Bankers. They need a good spanking. Or they need a In America Revolution and take back their Country.
yeeehaw! "This is the land of the free, and if you dont agree, muthafukah, we will shoot you dead!"
@5eOV you mean dumbfuck noddy big ears asswipe? That cunt would need a teleprompter to say that. Way way out your league here; it's not Libya you're dealing with you cowardly piece of shit.
amerikunt parrot has a new handle
"amerikunt parrot has (several) new handle(s)"
There, helped update it...
You're just faunny. What would be the world without its 80% of idiots (of which you seem to be enrolled with)? It would be a very sad place to live
Has an international community upset ever stopped an American president from doing what he wanted? Remember Vietnam? Iraq?
Now go back to your troll hole. 2 weeks, rofl.
The problem is there are some big players in the west that want to provoke Russia and see the "unlimited reaction". Medvedev is angry because he knows they are being pushed into war. The challenge for Russia is not to take the bait.
I'm thinking a disabling cyber attack on SWIFT. No need for anything more.
Who would Russia bring action against since they are partners of USSA, China, India, Australia, Italy, Poland......G20?
Danish Pharma Novo Nordisk Opening Plant in Russia
U.S. FCC Looks To Russia’s GLONASS System For 911 Emergency Response
U.S. To Buy 30 More Russian RD-180 Rocket Engines On Top Of 60 Already Ordered
Poland Now To Build Helicopters With Russia…..Like Italy
German, Turkish & Russian Consortium To Build Solar Cell Plant In Russia
Kia is Now Russia’s Best-selling Car
Russia’s USC Buys Finland’s Arctech Helsinki Shipyard
China Buys 2% Stake In Italy’s Saipem…….Too Obvious If Russia Bought ‘Em
Russian Start-ups Selected For Joint Project With Microsoft
Japan and Russia Meet To Discuss Energy Cooperation
If Russia bids for physical gold in large quantities it could wreck the gold derivative market which depends upon the flow of physical to function (even though very little physical gold actually moves.) This would cause a chain reaction in the rest of the derivative market and all hell could break loose in a nano second.
As the ECB has lots of gold on their balance sheet this would benefit them immensely so they might bitch but deep down inside they would be very happy. The dollar would then become worth a lot less in terms of gold and this would be very very bad for the USA. Putin has to know this. I wonder what other real threat he might be imagining.
Can't wait to find out. The dollar has to go someday.
"Russia's isolation appears to be shrinking"
With all due respect to the writer, that is a very vague sentence. It may perhaps mean that the degree of the isolation is shrinking, or equally, it may mean that the zone in which it is isolated is shrinking.
So Russia is a rusting, bloated cow?..and just who is servicing the International Space Station?....
Guess they needed Swift after all.
Unless they a e counting on being kicked out so they can retaliate with whatever they've been wanting to retaliate with. Take Kiev? Sell Ts? Troops in Iran or Syria? Nat Gas shut off to the EU? All these players are fucking crazy.
Barack needs to cut Russia out of SWIFT, cut off Medvedev's penis, and more fully arm Ukrainians so they can take the fight to Russia.
Vlad, meanwhile, needs to send more witless spies to the U.S. for incarceration ("So...like...when are they going to knock off these damn sanctions, huh?"), and suck it up with ever-more-miserable ruble exchange rates so he can spend down those cash reserves and find himself (and Russia) prostrate at America's feet.
Your analysis and the depth of understanding the world as a whole is mind blowing.
Another 2 weeks ZH member anti Putin troll. You good friend of 123Freedom or what is his name?
"We don't need no damn SWIFT, but if you try to cut us out of it, we're going nuclear on your asses!"
Hilarious....
no joke asshole.
>>>Hilarious
ONLY in your own mind, sadly
Cutting-off Russia from the SWIFT is like giving a green light to Mr. Putin to go and take over whole Europe Zone.
Western leaders see the SWIFT as a big umbrella that keep them safe from Russian Nukes.
they should reconsider .
The UK suggest banning Russia from SWIFT.
What an effing stupid idea. So no analysis of the consequences? Skyrocketing oil prices, very cold Europeans, and starvation in Russia not seen since WW2.
Who dreams up this crap?
The UK badly needs a party like Syriza. The coalition government is acting totally against the interests of the people, and its policy against Russia is a demonstration of this fact. Until the current EU governments comprised of neo-feudalists are all removed from office, people's lives will not improve.
My hopes lie with the rise of the BRICS nations, and the move to a new financial and political paradigm in the West.
No need for Uruppeans to tranfer Saudi Mercan toilet paper IOU €urodollah petroscrip fiat for Russian energy with their NSA SWIFT scam. Russia will take gold from those countries that remove themselves from the North Amerikan Terror Organ. Quite simple really.
Worth repeating. Who will be next? Switzerland?
NOVOSIBIRSK, January 28 (Sputnik) — Russian banks have been forced to cancel contracts with their US clients due to the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA), law that requires foreign banks to provide information on US citizens' banking activities, a senior Russian official said Wednesday.
The FATCA, which became law in 2010, requires foreign banks to report information on some US clients. If a bank does not comply, it may be subject to a fine. Moscow and Washington were negotiating a FATCA deal acceptable for both sides until March 2014, when the United States suspended the talks over the Ukraine crisis.
"We could not put our national security under risk in this case, this is why a rule was adopted, under which every credit services organization may cancel the contracts with its clients, the US residents, and avoid FATCA regulations this way," Deputy Director of Russia's Federal Financial Monitoring Service Pavel Livadny told journalists.
Livadny added that the banks are now obliged to inform the Russian Central Bank, the Federal Financial Monitoring Service, and the Federal Tax Service of such clients.
"The credit organizations prefer to part with such clients, rather than stay under pressure from US tax laws," Livadny added.
US Congress enacted FATCA to make it more difficult for US taxpayers to conceal assets held in offshore accounts and shell corporations, and thus to recoup federal tax revenues.
I think Russia should start selling oil for gold, say for example 1million barrels for 1 ton of gold sounds like a good starting point. Obviously that would spike the fiat to gold price if too many countries without many tons of gold took up the offer at once, but ultimately I think it would bring back some stability to the oil price and of course present a clear path around SWIFT.
Petrogold would be a great thing. Some kind of audit scheme would be required to make sure the buyer had the gold reserves. We don't want the same fraud as with paper gold.