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"The Barricades Are Down" Syriza Is Already Rolling Back Austerity "Reforms"

Tyler Durden's picture




 

It didn't take long for Syriza to start making changes in Greece. While these may be minor at the margin compared to the debt "issues", as KeepTalkingGreece reports, Alexis Tsipras and his junior coalition partner Panos Kammenos pushed the Fast Forward button to restore a series of so-called “reforms”, that is austerity measures imposed by the country’s lenders, the Troika - among the left-wing reforms are: scrapping planned privatizations, scrapping fees in public hospitals and prescriptions, restore “the 13th pension” for low-pensioners and other actions that SYRIZA had promised before the elections. And the iron barricades in front of Parliament have been removed.

 

Via Keep Talking Greece,

Iron Barricades

The first revolutionary move was conducted by alternate Minister responsible for Citizens’ Protection and Public Order. Yiannis Panousis removed the iron barricades in front of the Greek Parliament. The barricades were installed to protect the lawmakers from angry demonstrators after the huge anti-austerity protests from 2010 onwards.

Before

After

Panousis, who is Professor for Constitutional Law, made the announcement Wednesday morning. Right after the first meeting of the new cabinet concluded, the barricades were removed.

Health sector

Alternate minister Andreas Xanthos announced the “targeted enhancement of the health sector”, scrapping the 5-euro fee at public hospitals and the 1-euro fee per prescription as well as reductions in the patients’ economic participation on drugs.

The unprecedented financial burden imposed on patients had quite some people stop taking their medication or seek charity organizations for life-saving drugs. KTG has reported many times about the plight in the Greek health sector.

Pensions

Alternate Minister for Social Funds, Dimitris Stratoulis announced a stop in pension cuts and to restore the “13th pension” for pensioners receiving below €700 per month. He also said that “uninsured farmers will receive again the €360 per month.

Minimum Wage

Minister for Labor and Social Solidarity, Panos Skourletis, announced that the minimum wage will be raised to €751 gross, while the collective bargains will be restored.

Under Troika pressure in the name of so-called “competitiveness”, the minimum wage plunged down to €580 gross and €490 gross for those below 25 years old in 2012 with the effect that households could not even cover their monthly basic needs.

Rehiring in Public sector

Alternate Minister for Administrative Reform Giorgos Katrougalos announced the re-hiring of those who were laid-off from the public sector in the scheme of “mobility”. According to Katrougalos, the lay-offs were against the Constitution.

School guards, cleaners and teachers were laid-off in masses, after the Greek government decided to fire over night some 10,000 people in order to meet Troika’s demands for a lean public administration. The lay-offs were not according to meritocracy criteria, the measure affected whole groups of employees.

Greek nationality to migrants’ children

Alternate Minister for Migration policy Tasia Christodoulopoulou announced that migrants’ children born and raised in Greece will be granted Greek nationality, probably also children that came here in very young age.

Taking into consideration the SYRIZA program as announced by Alexis Tsipras on January 2oth in Thessaloniki, more anti-austerity changes are on the note book of the new government. So far all ministers made their announcements in television programs. The official announcements are expected next week in the Greek Parliament when the coalition will seek vote of confidence.

So far we heard no ministerial announcement on TV regarding the painful issue of over-taxation.

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Wed, 01/28/2015 - 12:28 | 5716029 elegance
elegance's picture

Holy shit. They will bleed Russia dry if they get them to underwrite this! Tsipras, you genius!

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 12:28 | 5716041 Save_America1st
Save_America1st's picture

FREE SHIT FOR EVERYBODY!!!

ROLL, FSA ROLL!!!

Can Greece take about 30 million illegal aliens off our hands now too??? 

Thanks Germany...pay up bitchez!!!  LOL

 

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 12:30 | 5716049 Clueless Economist
Clueless Economist's picture

Socialist Scum are so stupid

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 12:31 | 5716063 DJ Happy Ending
DJ Happy Ending's picture

I wonder who will pay for all this.

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 12:34 | 5716071 Aaaarghh
Aaaarghh's picture

lets not give a shit how they'll pay for it, and instead enjoy the spectacle of banks and eurocrats having to take a bite from a shit sandwich..

 

if it were me, i'd default and return to a devalued drachma, fuck em all.

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 12:53 | 5716170 Antifaschistische
Antifaschistische's picture

The devalued drachma would provide even more entertainment so bring it on.    I will be very interested to see how they settle cross border Accounts Payable/Accounts Receivable problems.   If business agree to still keep trade Payables in the Euro (completely appropriate) but their local sales are in a devalued Drachma...the exchange of Drachma for Euro's will never be enough to satisfy the Euro denominated Payable.....watching that happen will be a show worth watching.

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 13:13 | 5716285 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

The Gods of the Copybook Headings will be working in the Greek language extensively this year.    

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 16:09 | 5717111 macholatte
macholatte's picture

 

 

They can't afford to pay one euro for a prescription....... astounding!

 

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 18:16 | 5717673 edotabin
edotabin's picture

I have been screaming for some time now that the problem is not political (anymore) or financial.  Evidently I don't have enough "street credit" and so if you feel better hearing it from those deemed more "credible",  here you go:

http://carnegieeurope.eu/strategiceurope/?fa=58826

Someone else finally got the balls to say what needed to be said.

The type of change that can save that country can only come from within the heart and mind of each individual citizen.

 

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 19:07 | 5717854 COSMOS
COSMOS's picture

I predict a Neo Nazi coup in a few days, they made a big mistake taking down those barricades.

Maybe they can take down the fence around the White House, and the barriers around DC.  That whole terrorist car bomb is a poor excuse for keeping people from getting as close to the politicians as lobby reps, private interests, and oligarchs, do.

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 22:27 | 5718572 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

A fire in parliament, followed by the incarceration of the person leading the group responsible, who will be, some years later appointed "Chancellor" by a senile, yet democratically elected war hero.

This rings a bell.

Thu, 01/29/2015 - 02:58 | 5719020 rockface
rockface's picture

Nazis, Commies, all the same.  Big Party coming..

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 19:08 | 5717875 Escrava Isaura
Escrava Isaura's picture

 

 

edotabin

Sorry to say but, your last paragraph (about how humanity works) sounds very naive. But, good luck.

Second, your link is from someone that is pursuing a PhD at the Department of Government and International Studies”, which means, someone that is incapable of telling, and understand the truth.

 

Here are two people that can:

Ugo Bardi, Professor in Physical Chemistry (science that studies the composition, structure, properties and change of matter):

In 1972, "The Limits to Growth" presented a set of scenarios for the future of humankind, which mostly involved decline and collapse of the world's economy. These scenarios were the result of solving a set of coupled differential equations and, for most people, the reasons for the predicted behavior of the economy remained obscure and imperscrutable. As a result, the results of the study were neither understood nor believed.

As I argued in a previous post, we tend to understand the world in narrative terms. We think in words, not in equations. And we tend to use words to arrange concepts as if they were actors playing on a stage. In the end, it is not a less legitimate way of modeling the world than using equations. So, I found in the blog of John Michael Greer (the "Archdruid") an exceeding lucid and compact description of the reasons why civilizations tend to collapse. And here it is: no equations, no graphs, but it couldn't be clearer than this.

 

Excerpt from a post by John Michael Greer, from "The Archdruid Report"

....

The process that drives the collapse of civilizations has a surprisingly simple basis: the mismatch between the maintenance costs of capital and the resources that are available to meet those costs. Capital here is meant in the broadest sense of the word, and includes everything in which a civilization invests its wealth: buildings, roads, imperial expansion, urban infrastructure, information resources, trained personnel, or what have you. Capital of every kind has to be maintained, and as a civilization adds to its stock of capital, the costs of maintenance rise steadily, until the burden they place on the civilization’s available resources can’t be supported any longer.

The only way to resolve that conflict is to allow some of the capital to be converted to waste, so that its maintenance costs drop to zero and any useful resources locked up in the capital can be put to other uses. Human beings being what they are, the conversion of capital to waste generally isn’t carried out in a calm, rational manner; instead, kingdoms fall, cities get sacked, ruling elites are torn to pieces by howling mobs, and the like. If a civilization depends on renewable resources, each round of capital destruction is followed by a return to relative stability and the cycle begins all over again; the history of imperial China is a good example of how that works out in practice.
 

If a civilization depends on nonrenewable resources for essential functions, though, destroying some of its capital yields only a brief reprieve from the crisis of maintenance costs. Once the nonrenewable resource base tips over into depletion, there’s less and less available each year thereafter to meet the remaining maintenance costs, and the result is the stairstep pattern of decline and fall so familiar from history:  each crisis leads to a round of capital destruction, which leads to renewed stability, which gives way to crisis as the resource base drops further. Here again, human beings being what they are, this process isn’t carried out in a calm, rational manner; the difference here is simply that kingdoms keep falling, cities keep getting sacked, ruling elites are slaughtered one after another in ever more inventive and colorful ways, until finally contraction has proceeded far enough that the remaining capital can be supported on the available stock of renewable resources.

 

http://cassandralegacy.blogspot.it/2014/09/the-limits-to-growth-described-in.html 

 

 

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 20:32 | 5718191 edotabin
edotabin's picture

Let's talk when the cost of capital and some solar energy can cure this:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-01-28/new-greek-government-arrives-it...

I am a firm believer that the most valuable thing on earth is the human spirit.  Nurtured properly and used to expand knowledge there are truly no limits. Well, perhaps there are some limits but the room for growth is astounding. Unfortunately, it is not being nurtured or encouraged.

So, we do agree on one thing: ...human beings, being what they are.........

 

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 21:57 | 5718481 Dave Thomas
Dave Thomas's picture

Why are we all sitting around wondering how people "Pay for stuff" when we know "Paying for stuff" is all kinda made up?

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 22:47 | 5718644 Escrava Isaura
Escrava Isaura's picture

 

 

Exactly!

It’s all man-made bull$hit.

Why people feel so strong to believe these nonsense’s says more about them; and how naive some of them can be.

 

Thu, 01/29/2015 - 04:42 | 5719073 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Don't expect ME to feed YOU every time you get hungry if you won't/don't help me with my life.

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 22:55 | 5718610 Escrava Isaura
Escrava Isaura's picture

 

 

Pointless Believes

edotabin

You wrote: cost of capital and some solar energy can cure this

Then, you go on with: the most valuable thing on earth is the human spirit.

 

Cost of capital? Do you know the difference between $1 dollar bill and $100 dollar bill?

There are NO differences. It costs the Treasury $0.03 pennies to print, either.

 

Solar Energy? Solar is not oil. Second: Solar has lots of oil embedded on its materials and production. Third: Depletion, very soon, will be more powerful than any technological improvement. Fourth: Humans can only spend and transform, but not produce useful energy.

 

 

Pointless Rituals

Human Spirit?

Spirituality is a code for indoctrination and discrimination. To see if you can fit in, as you are being brainwashed. And you can clearly see this behavior here, right above, at this forum as with Save_America1st, Clueless Economist with their endless socialism nonsense. But the list is long.

 

Anyway, let’s talk about ‘Human Spirit’ when there won’t be enough resources and food for everyone. I think you, as well as most here, are for an unpleasant surprise.

 

Thu, 01/29/2015 - 04:29 | 5719056 edotabin
edotabin's picture

Ok. Let's all sit in a dark room till we die.

We can't produce, we can't think, we can't expand, we can't innovate, we can't breathe, everyone is a slave...... Humans have come this far because the FED has been around for 30,000 years printing dollars at 3 cents per piece of paper. I'm sure there's a forum for each one of those that you're going to provide a link to.

Remember replying to my posts uses oil and we just ran out. This comment is the last comment to ever be entered on the Internet.

 

Thu, 01/29/2015 - 08:15 | 5719194 Escrava Isaura
Escrava Isaura's picture

 

 

“A single data center can take more power than a medium-size town.”

 

Worldwide, the digital warehouses use about 30 billion watts of electricity, roughly equivalent to the output of 30 nuclear power plants

 

So, when I hear tech will solve our coming demise……., then I know I am not talking to a serious person.

 

 http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/23/technology/data-centers-waste-vast-amounts-of-energy-belying-industry-image.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

 

Thu, 01/29/2015 - 12:51 | 5720420 edotabin
edotabin's picture

Since we are all dead then what are you bothering with me for? I get it.  Everything is black, we are all dead and the cost of electricity is too expensive relative to the wealth it produced. 

Go to your cave,  light your candle and live happily ever after.  While you are being so happy,  you may wish to ponder if all the info you have came at a cost that may have been to high.

Stop being so irksome and at least consider being happy during the final days. If we are all gonna go,  we may as well go happy (as much as possible)

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 18:49 | 5717785 HungryPorkChop
HungryPorkChop's picture

Nein says ze Germany Chancellor.  We needz Greece, Spain, Portugal and Italy to keep dem Euro weak.  If ze all starts leaving denz the Euro will strenghten too much and hurt ze German exports. We must have weak Euro!!!

Geece probably needs only mutter one word:  "Iceland"

 

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 12:57 | 5716180 Save_America1st
Save_America1st's picture

 

 

How do you say Free Shit Army in Greekish?

 

Dorean Skata Stratou

 

Doesn't exactly roll off the tongue as well though. Lol

 

Or maybe they need to learn how to say it in Germanese:

 

Kostenlose Sheibe Armee

 

Bitchez...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 13:34 | 5716390 thamnosma
thamnosma's picture

Bankers are used to taking losses.  It's part of their game.  They won't really be suffering.

Back in the 80's same thing occurred on a much larger scale.  Banks provided massive low interest loans to much of Latin America in the 70's -- all these "emerging markets".   The loans all went bust by the 80's.  Did that hurt the banks?  LOL.  Not really.  They just created a distressed loan business and bought each other's loans for pennies on the dollar. 

Greece is a pimple on their balance sheets.  The banks are in much more trouble over their greedy insane derivative business.

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 14:26 | 5716622 11b40
11b40's picture

Can you play dominoes?

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 19:06 | 5717863 COSMOS
COSMOS's picture

Banks dont care there will be a massive QE in Euroland and they will be made whole on any Greek losses.

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 19:23 | 5717947 11b40
11b40's picture

In case you didn't get it, the implication is that this could quickly become much more than Greece.....can you say PIGS?

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 15:03 | 5716789 astoriajoe
astoriajoe's picture

I hope none of those derivatives are tied to Greek or other European debt.

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 14:32 | 5716649 sgt_doom
sgt_doom's picture

Ditto, Aaaarghh!

And in other excellent news, Argentina's President Christina Kirchner announces she is dissolving, ending, doing away with, their Intelligence Secretariat (CIA).

Outstanding!

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 19:14 | 5717902 Haiku4U
Haiku4U's picture

Bravo!!

I may not agree with all of what Syriza/Tsipras is going to do, but I do agree. with them having the balls to stick it to the banksters in Europe. I cant wait for a politician here in the USSA to do same thing. He will have my vote.

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 12:36 | 5716086 Al Huxley
Al Huxley's picture

I used to wonder that as well, but after watching the fucking elitist bankers rape the world without consequence for 10 years, I no longer care.

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 12:42 | 5716120 Arius
Arius's picture

thats it?  only 10 years? 

 

or are you talking about the cherry on the top of hunderds of years ...

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 12:49 | 5716144 knukles
knukles's picture

At least these politicians have the balls not to use Twitter or some such shit...
"So far all ministers made their announcements in television programs"

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 13:25 | 5716341 thamnosma
thamnosma's picture

They better care who is going to pay for it.  There is no free shit irrespective of the hatred of bankers.  Pfizer won't be send medicine into Greece for free in perpetuity.  Or machinery to run power plants, or food, etc.  Goods must be paid for whether you've be "raped by bankers" or not.

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 16:51 | 5717311 Excursionist
Excursionist's picture

At some point in the future, the average Greek citizen will have to internalize the concept of no free lunches.

I'd love to drink, smoke, work 30 hours / wk, retire at 50 and then have the state nurse my poor health in my old age.  But all Ponzi schemes like these eventually burn out and crash.

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 19:11 | 5717889 COSMOS
COSMOS's picture

LOL you wish that would happen here in state and federal govt offices.  These politicians work fewer hours and get pensions after just a few years worth of work.

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 12:56 | 5716184 balanced
balanced's picture

"I wonder who will pay for all this."

Do you think that governments actually say ok we'll provide this service, so we'll have to raise taxes here or there to pay for it? The people are taxed as much as is possible - always, regardless of actual government expenditures. Governments spend more than they have - always. Banks are now printing trillions out of thin air. It's all bullshit.

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 13:01 | 5716218 Utah_Get_Me_2
Utah_Get_Me_2's picture

Thank you for your money Germany!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zvl9N9GdraQ

Pale Schnitzelface.

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 14:50 | 5716720 my_nym
my_nym's picture

I have no dog... or jackal in this fight but:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-Yszp3SmxE

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 13:08 | 5716264 Creepy A. Cracker
Creepy A. Cracker's picture

"I wonder who will pay for all this."

With Greece, nobody.  They have defaulted on their debt four times in the past 100 years.  What's a fifth, sixth, and seventh time?  This is the dream socialist scenario - have people lend you billions of dollars then refuse to pay them back claiming that socialism is the way to prosperity.  it's just other people's money that you are taking and not paying back.  Screw them, they're not special people like you, right leftists?

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 13:21 | 5716315 Richardk888
Richardk888's picture

Because the politicians on the right had it correct? Really?

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 13:23 | 5716338 Creepy A. Cracker
Creepy A. Cracker's picture

Yes, the true Constitutional following right in the U.S. had, and have, it exactly correct.  The left destroys lives and coun tries all in the name of their own power, greed, and wan tto control other people's lives.

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 13:35 | 5716392 Richardk888
Richardk888's picture

The true Constitutional following politicians account for maybe 1% of elected officials as a whole.  Both the left and the right in the US are progressives whos policies destroy lives and countries in the name of their own power, greed, and want to control other peoples lives.

Your buying into the left versus right bullshit is what the probles is with the US.

Speaking of Greece, the right funneled billions of dollars to banks and sold property and mineral rights for pennies on the dollar.

Do some research prior to spouting the FOX, CNN whatever MSM bullshit.

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 18:54 | 5717805 John_Coltrane
John_Coltrane's picture

Allright, so how many republican votes for obamacare?  Exactly zero.  How many for medicare, medicaid, social security, foodstamps etc.  All initiated and passed by only one party.  Do you see the pattern?  So, follow your own dictum and do some objective research.  Cognitive bias is a bitch for all humans.

And which party instituted the FED and the income tax asshole!  Do you know who Woodrow Wilson is?  How about FDR and LBJ.?  I've now listed the three most destructive politicians in the history of the US and what party do they all have in common?  People who know no history are destained to repeat its errors.

And which side pointed out, "the problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people's money".

 

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 21:42 | 5718436 petkovplamen
petkovplamen's picture

funny how the Republicans have problem with people getting Obama care but they don't have ANY problems with getting free medical care themselves, huh?

funny how the Republicans have problem with people getting welfare but they don't have ANY problems with voting to give themselves raises and to make sure to get GREAT benefits when they retire huh?

Very funny indeed.

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 21:35 | 5718406 Creepy A. Cracker
Creepy A. Cracker's picture

Go work on your reading comprehension problem then get back to me. 

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 13:29 | 5716360 macroeconomist
macroeconomist's picture

Whose money are we talking about here? German and French banks that lent to Southern Europe to suck everything out of them, knowing that those debts were unsustainable and could NEVER be paid back. But they wanted to dance with the music didn't they?

Do you think we give a flying fuck about their money then? Let me tell you: We don't. 

If the Troika had not forced Greece to bend down on their knees and sign the bailout to save their own financial elite, German taxpayers would not be on the hook. And that is not my problem at all, since they have been happily voting for Merkel all this time. So they will get what they deserve.

The leftists are defaulting on their debt to the money lords. In case you cannot understand that, it is called resistance.

Why do the bankers even need any propaganda when they have many useful idiots like you doing it for free for them as they rape you in the ass?

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 14:44 | 5716694 snowlywhite
snowlywhite's picture

leaving aside the whole package seems to cost pennies. Min. wag up 150euros... That's peanuts. Plus gov. will tax something out of it(I take, if they talk about "gross").

 

“13th pension” for pensioners receiving below €700 per month - I don't see what you can do beside starving with 3-500eur/month in an expensive EU country. As Greece is pretty expensive due to crisis. I'm talking about basic utilities and food. Rest indeed seems pretty cheap, but 1st you need electricity and food if you want to live another day.

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 19:15 | 5717901 COSMOS
COSMOS's picture

Good point macro, those loans came with conditions to buy German military equipment and regular products at high profit margins for the Krauts, while the Greeks folded their factories and opened their markets to a virtual German monopoly.  They also made interest for the past few years earning quite a bit of their principal back.  The Germans did not lose any money in this scenario.  They made money.

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 18:48 | 5717771 Town Crier
Town Crier's picture

I wonder who will pay for all this.

Asking annoying questions is what got Socrates the big dirt nap.

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 13:04 | 5716230 Anasteus
Anasteus's picture

It's all happening so fast... a few more finger snaps and we are in deep shit here in Europe.

And everything was already fixed a week ago...

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 14:20 | 5716590 Sandmann
Sandmann's picture

It is no different from the US with entitlement programs noone can afford to honour. When will Americans start to realidse they cannot afford Big State Defence and Big Government ?

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 16:08 | 5717119 sharonsj
sharonsj's picture

As opposed to the capitalist scum running this country?  At least the Greeks now have reason to stop trying to burn down their own parliament.  Americans have yet to wake up to the theft and austerity here.

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 13:08 | 5716251 LetsGetPhysical
LetsGetPhysical's picture

Greece just went full Krugman. 

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 12:29 | 5716046 cossack55
cossack55's picture

Imagine. A gubmint not afraid of its people.  

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 12:39 | 5716096 booboo
booboo's picture

They will be when they run out of other people's money, these moves push the starship Bancrupto Greco up to ludicrous speed but Russia will have a nice Med port.

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 12:41 | 5716112 cossack55
cossack55's picture

Not Gallipoli again. Cue Mel Gibson

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 13:07 | 5716256 NihilistZero
NihilistZero's picture

Well just maybe the Oligarch fucks in Greece who have been screwing over their brothers for the Troika for half a decade are due for some higher taxes to pay the bill.

They sure liked socialism when it was protecting their assets while bleeding the Greek populace dry. The rich and powerful fucking LOVE big government when it's protecting their shit. Amazing how it's okay for so called capitalists to use the barrel of a gun to get/keep theirs, but when the poor masses do it it's evil socialism.

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 13:35 | 5716398 macroeconomist
macroeconomist's picture

Very well said!

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 14:26 | 5716614 NihilistZero
NihilistZero's picture

Sometimes this site gets to John Gault for my tastes.  I'd love to wake up tomorrow in a truly free libertarian anarcho-capitalist utopia, but that shit ain't happening.  For ANY form of government to exist without sliding into some form of fascist or communist totalitarianism there has to be some safety net and a living standard floor for the working masses.  Von Mises and the other Austrians accepted this fact.  The end game of a system without these is some type of workers revolution of a complete totalitarian lock down of society by the Bourgeois.

You can have a system that is 80-90% capitalism with some elements of socialism to hold it together, or you can have a system doomed to failure by the nature of capitalism itself.  Gekko was right,  greed is good.  Until you eat your last neighbor and begin staring longingly at your own arm for lunch.

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 15:10 | 5716815 Farqued Up
Farqued Up's picture

Zero, my favorite Nihilist, anarchy coupled with any hyphenated -ISM is an oxymoron. Fuck capitalism, it requires a do-gooder government wonk to "administer" it. Neighborhood vigilantism, user fees, and economic Darwinism is the only solution. Everything else requires full-blown sicko psychopaths' involvement and their massive parasitic rake-offs.

If you welch on a valid contract, the neighborhood unpaid council will extract retribution for the victim, not some parasitic state (see SEC fines).

 

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 17:48 | 5717588 NihilistZero
NihilistZero's picture

You've pretty much described anarcho-capitalisim as Murray Rothbard defined it. Don't see it being a reality on this planet. Post warp drive maybe...

So going with what we've got the best you can hope for is those psychos you spoke of are forced to work for the greater whole. USA did a decent job of it until 1913. Wasn't even to bad after that up until they whacked Kennedy, then it was game over.

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 19:04 | 5717852 John_Coltrane
John_Coltrane's picture

Well, its good to see you understand 1913 is the date in which the wheels fell off.  So, you must accept the elimination of the FED and illegal income tax as necessary.  Do you?  Then the welfare warfare state collaspses and good riddance.  If, like the Greeks you want your socialism and the required money printing and hidden inflation tax to support it you violate fundamental laws of both thermodynamics and economics.  You can't support both central banking and debt based credit money and the welfare state. 

So, show your real colors!

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 20:23 | 5718196 NihilistZero
NihilistZero's picture

So, you must accept the elimination of the FED and illegal income tax as necessary.  Do you?

Strawman argument.  Taking mankind for what it is the utopia isn't coming anytime soon, if ever on this planet.  Show me an example where the chains of tyranny were truly broken.  Sure the USA came the closest, but we still had slavery and the only way the Union was held together was by Lincoln violating all the tenants of freedom it was supposed to embody.

Don't give me academic examples.  the far left has that fallacy locked down anyway.  In the real world, in real economies, it's always a mix of enterprise, corruption, markets and .gov control.  If you can't wrap your head arounds the fact that some sort of social safety net is needed to keep the whole thing from collapsing in upon itself, there's not much else I can say.  My train doesn't make stops in Libertopia, because it doesn't exist.

P.S.  Why would you infer the FED and an income tax are needed to keep a limited social safety net in place.  the two are completely mutually exclusive.

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 20:56 | 5718304 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Allow me to butt in on a useful conversation.

I don't think anyone is opposed to charity and I think when the words "social safety net" are used it infers a government responsibility, at least thats what it means to me.

But thats the problem, government by its very nature becomes huge over time (bureaucracy & administration expense) and sucks more & more away from those who would willingly contribute to a "safety net".

Nobody can seriously say those in the safety net are entitled to "free" T-Bones while the guy footing the bill is forced to eat hamburger and by the same token, those who designed the net eat T-Bones as well.

The only one getting screwed in this is the guy who puts up with it thinking he's helping the unfortunate.

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 21:40 | 5718433 NihilistZero
NihilistZero's picture

I don't think anyone is opposed to charity and I think when the words "social safety net" are used it infers a government responsibility, at least thats what it means to me.

Let's talk in terms of realpolitik.  Government is here to stay.  There will always be a .gov safety net for the powerful.  To think otherwise is naive.  Now if we're gonna keep that form of fascism to it's minimum (basically the opposite of what we have now) there has to be a voice at the "free shit" table for the working class.  How can we have any balance otherwise?  I've said 1000 times I'm all for Libertopia if we can get it.  And I'm not joking about the Warp drive being the game changer.  Until we can escape the physical reach of .gov we can never force its honesty.

Anyway back to the safety net.  Keep it small and cash oriented.  You fall below a certain threshold you get a negative income tax rebate.  You need subsidized housing.  You get a rebate check every moth so you can live wherever you choose not just section 8.  Remove as much of the administrative costs of the welfare state as possible.  And I fucking A support offering 10K plus per sterilization as a true war on poverty (free market eugenics)!  This "stimulus" of the poverty class could be seen as smoothing the business cycle by putting a floor under consumption.  That benefits your hamburger eater if he truly is a producer.  Unlike the trickle down QE we've seen this system could fulfill the "slow and steady" increase of the money supply to match population that Milton Friedman supported.

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 22:51 | 5718653 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Your argument is based completely on the premise that government as we know it is here to stay.

Reality observation dictates the opposite, the Keynesians have screwed the pooch so bad this time they have no chance of ever reconstructing anyones faith in it.

Zero to negative interest rates in the hopes that a Mickey D's worker will take out a loan...while the holders of "equity" rely on "the law" to make the stock they sell (to who?) valuable as a device of debt money?...lol.

Lets just say I am less than sanguine that they can entice enough suckers back to the table without forcing them through a metal detector at the door ;-)

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 23:15 | 5718707 NihilistZero
NihilistZero's picture

My thesis has nothing to do with the efficacy of the Keynesians. Sure the failure of QE (which is NOT Keynesian, but we'll have that discussion another day) and Ron Paul have sparked interest in liberty and sound money. But to say they have created a sea change that deconstructs government down to constructionist constitutionalism is the stuff of acid trips. To say that even a moderate percentage of the populace is ready to REALLY junk the system is far fetched. I think the thesis I proposed under a Rand Paul type is the best case scenario. A roll back and retooling of the welfare state based on free market type principles. Unfortunately I can't share your optimism that the shackles are about to be cast off in some revolutionary wave. There just isn't anything I see in the people or the circumstances they'll face over the next few decades that would force such a change. And even I'd there was and were back at 1776 I think we're still right back where we are now in a hundred years. Unless we get that warp drive of course.

Hopefully we'll be around for these friendly discussions many years from now :-)

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 19:02 | 5717845 booboo
booboo's picture

I agree, but it does not change the concept of socialism. Other than that, lots of Greek citizens rode that gravy train for years, so a few years of reality and we should All of a sudden pity them? It's coming here too, the free ride on the backs of others is over, it's that or you will support more free shit on the backs of the oligarchs? That won't last long, then what? Stomping your feet, holding your breath?
Exchanging one dry cow for another still won't get you a glass of milk.

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 12:42 | 5716117 THE DOCTOR
THE DOCTOR's picture

Imagine. A people not afraid of its  gubmint.  

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 13:06 | 5716242 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

That would be a very stupid people.  Government has to be kept down, lest you end up with central planning end points like this, with rabble raisers alone rising above the din of despair.   

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 13:26 | 5716348 thamnosma
thamnosma's picture

Hope and change works for the masses for awhile.

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 12:45 | 5716124 NOTW777
NOTW777's picture

wonder if he is planning a luxury vacation to Hawaii

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 13:37 | 5716402 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

Nothing an Aegean Submarine Base can't pay for....

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 12:27 | 5716033 Againstthelie
Againstthelie's picture

Shylock will not be amused.

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 12:28 | 5716037 czarangelus
czarangelus's picture

That all sounds nice but... where will you get the money?

(With any luck, they'll get it from defaulting.)

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 12:29 | 5716050 Againstthelie
Againstthelie's picture

Did the banksters ask that question, when they received trillions?

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 12:34 | 5716067 Latitude25
Latitude25's picture

Agreed but how do you run a country when the bankers create the money?

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 12:42 | 5716094 oddjob
oddjob's picture

Simple. Let people choose which 'form' of money they transact in.

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 13:04 | 5716237 franzpick
franzpick's picture

America revolted to get out from under the Bank of England, issuing its own interest-free currency, only then to let corrupted politicians over the following 200 years grant money-issuance, at interest, to 3 private banks. It's a tragic story, and an American disgrace:

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/allwarsarebankerswars.pdf

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 13:10 | 5716278 actionjacksonbrownie
actionjacksonbrownie's picture

  "Did the banksters ask that question, when they received trillions?"

 

    THIS ^^^

 

THE best comment on the subject of "money" I have read here in a very long time.

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 14:16 | 5716574 The9thDoctor
The9thDoctor's picture

I agree.

The real "free shit army" are the banksters printing up currency out of thin air and using said currency to buy up private islands and infrastructure.

Meanwhile the masses want a roof over their head, a pot to piss in, and some basic medical care.  OMG they are socialists wanting freebees, according to the Austrian School blohards that makeup the bulk of this site.

As soon as the austerity garbage was repealed the barricades went down.

Everyone at the street level knows that austerity is services that the taxpayers pay for anyway get cut and all tax revenue goes directly to big banks to pay off arbitrary interest completely made up.

The masses don't mind paying taxes if they get services in return.  If taxes go up, and services get cut, yet the revenue goes towards banksters so they can live like gods on Mount Olympus, then demonstrations begin.

The banksters are done with Greece for now, but in another decade, they'll come back around and loot some more islands and infrastructure, and the barricades will need to be put back up after everyone forgot after ten years.  The same game was played in Argentina multiple times.

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 19:18 | 5717933 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

"Did the banksters ask that question, when they received trillions?"

You know the game is rigged when you realise that they don't even have to ask

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 12:40 | 5716103 ZH Snob
ZH Snob's picture

they will probably join, then get seed money from the BRICS.  the BRICS already has billions put aside for this kind of thing. 

it's true, it won't be easy by any means, but it is far more important to be free of EU/rothschild/illuminati strangle-hold than to continue to depend on the blood-suckers.

 

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 12:27 | 5716040 wmbz
wmbz's picture

Sounds great! So, do they have a plan to pay for all of this?

Just wondering.

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 12:42 | 5716118 cossack55
cossack55's picture

Oh, you mean like the US plan or the Euroscum plan.

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 13:08 | 5716260 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

Look up 'US unfunded liabilities' and when you grasp what is staring you in the face, point the finger at Greece.  That is my suggestion.

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 13:21 | 5716316 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

Compare Greek demographics to U.S. demographics. They aren't just running out of other people's money, they are going to run out of other people.  It's a baked in slo-mo tragedy that will be repeated across Europe.   

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 12:28 | 5716047 youngman
youngman's picture

They were projected to have enough money to get thru May....not anymore...I bet this is all spent in February....and then listen to them scream...

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 12:31 | 5716053 Soldalma
Soldalma's picture

As Mrs. Thatcher said: "The problem with socialism is that one day you run out of other people's money." But what happens when there is no other people's money right from inception? We are going to find out soon.

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 12:35 | 5716073 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Socialism?!?  LMFAO!!!  The fucking planet has been giving bankers and financiers access to free money (QE and ZIRP) for 6+ fucking years, especially in the E.Z. and you think this is socialism?!?!

What a fucking retard.  Are the dumb fucks that loaned Greece the money not at fault at all you stupid fuck?

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 12:39 | 5716106 Al Huxley
Al Huxley's picture

Yeah, ditto.

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 12:44 | 5716123 ZH Snob
ZH Snob's picture

Al and LOP, you are certainly correct. 

it's funny, but when people have money concerns we are trained to think in terms of dollars, euros, yen and other trashed-out currencies.  with all its transitional problems, greece is just ahead of the curve of the rest of the world's destiny.

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 12:51 | 5716163 Utah_Get_Me_2
Utah_Get_Me_2's picture

There's nothing like having to intentionally infect yourself with HIV in order to qualify for a government benefit.

We are so fucked.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2513602/Desperate-Greek-citizens-intentionally-infecting-HIV-qualify-state-benefit-set-aside-addicts.html

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 12:54 | 5716166 Arius
Arius's picture

@ZH Snob

well, welfare etc... not so sure they are ahead of the curve ... benefits in the US are much higher would be my guess. 

 

The problem with german austerity was that while you eliminate state jobs there are no investments to create private jobs ... so what do you do?  bleed to death?  there needs to be some transitional measures to move people from state to private sector jobs especially when there are large number of people/

 

I think in the US the number of people employed by federal, state or local government is over 50% of the workforce; imagine if most are bankrupt ... what do you do?  if you apply german austerity most would have to go while the private sector has to compete with china ... well, yes, may be greece is ahead of the curve

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 12:50 | 5716146 geekz_rule
geekz_rule's picture

exactly LoP

these childish commnets decrying the meme about the lazy greeks, etc... while the rentier's rape... too funny

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 12:56 | 5716195 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

No, he's right.  And so are you.

Socialism for bankers can go a long time living on credit.

Socialism for plebs cannot go very long at all without credit.

 

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 13:04 | 5716240 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

No shit sherlock, but I am not being disingenuous about it.

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 13:14 | 5716290 elegance
elegance's picture

Will you call Putin dumb fuck if he rushes in to underwrite this?

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 12:41 | 5716100 Al Huxley
Al Huxley's picture

We gave the bankers a fuck of a lot more 'other peoples money' than the Greeks will be getting here.  That's why the whole anti-socialism argument holds no water for me any more. 

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 12:50 | 5716151 nixy
nixy's picture

Of of the anti socialism argument still holds water.

It's just some of the 'other peoples' hadn't been born at the point of 'contract'.

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 13:03 | 5716222 brucyy
brucyy's picture

Socialism will never be the answer , i can personally vouch for that.

Free market with real regulatory enforcement , and something they used to call "personal responsability" . on the other hand...

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 13:07 | 5716246 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

The world had a chance to hold the bankers and financiers accountable in in 2008.

That time has passed motherfucker.

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 13:27 | 5716350 brucyy
brucyy's picture

That is true. 

But moar top down bureaucracy , gov at every levels  , and "free" services for everyone policies ,reminds me of this quote courtesy of the fed : like peeing in bed , it feels good at first but always ends up being a real mess. 

The bankers will walk free regardless of the outcome. Self destruction will only result in self destruction.

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 13:48 | 5716385 Al Huxley
Al Huxley's picture

We now live in a 'whats in it for me' society, courtesy of a parasitic banking class and complicit media.  Get used to it, the time for personal responsibility is over, unless you want to just keep DONATING everything you have to the fucking bankers, instead of forcing them to TAKE it.

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 14:22 | 5716594 The9thDoctor
The9thDoctor's picture

The "what's in it for me" for the masses is medical care, education, affordable housing, and affordable food.

The "what's in it for me" for the banksters are private islands and infrastructure.

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 19:32 | 5717971 John_Coltrane
John_Coltrane's picture

I believe you meant there was a chance to hold them accountable in 1913, not 2008.   One year was the cause the other the cumulative effect.  And the laws for physics shouldn't confuse cause with effect don't you agree?   Do you look at abstract art from one inch away the way you do history?

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 13:35 | 5716393 mc225
mc225's picture

--Free market with real regulatory enforcement--

 

honestly, what does that even mean? do you want a market as free as brucyy and his friends think it should be?

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 13:50 | 5716471 brucyy
brucyy's picture

.

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 13:49 | 5716472 brucyy
brucyy's picture

No. 

I want real price discovery , not fucking CBs . I want the scum in london and WS to be prosecuted for treason against nations and taxpayers , and i want regulators to actually regulate , unlike the corrupted fuckers we currently have .

Then and only then a free market could start working

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 12:34 | 5716055 SpanishGoop
SpanishGoop's picture

This way it won't last long.

Try to buy medicines from the pharmaceutical companies after you default on the already large debt with them.

Buy, with what ? Not on credit anymore.

 

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 12:34 | 5716077 elegance
elegance's picture

Lol. Russia will give them money! Cause the average Greek is so much poorer than average Russian... 

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 14:06 | 5716122 cossack55
cossack55's picture

They just saved millions of Greek lives if they no longer buy Big Pharmas poison. Fuck Big Pharma and Fuck You.

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 14:09 | 5716538 cossack55
cossack55's picture

Wow, looks like at least 7 FDA scumsuckers killin' their 8 hours scannin' ZH and porn.

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 13:11 | 5716280 Augustus
Augustus's picture

C.O.D. will be a bit of trouble.

It won't be the same as knocking over the gyro delivery guy.

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 12:31 | 5716056 youngman
youngman's picture

The first thing they better hire is Tax Collectors

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 12:31 | 5716059 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Are the gallows being built?  No?  I will reserve judgment at this time...

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 12:35 | 5716076 bpj
bpj's picture

Come on seven, betting on the come.

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 12:40 | 5716080 cheech_wizard
cheech_wizard's picture

Lsten, do you hear that hum?

The sound of the printing presses in Nomismatokopeio running 24/7... 

Standard Disclaimer: You have to wonder, as the global situation worsens, do you really want to be the politician in office when the collapse occurs? Because the mob will come after your heads first. Personally, I chalk this up to people's exceptionally short attention spans and not having a clue as to how the situation got so dire in the first place. 

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 13:08 | 5716250 XitSam
XitSam's picture

The people won't go for the politicians.  To achieve this level of political hoodlumness the politicos have mastered the manipulation of the media and the people. The anger will be redirected to out-of-country banks, other countries (these 2 especially for Greece), policially quiet ethnic groups, greedy businesses, and currency traders. 

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 12:37 | 5716083 Joenobody12
Joenobody12's picture

And where does the US gets its money when it is 18 trillions in debt ? If the US , Japan, EU can print without consequence, why cant the greek ? 

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 12:44 | 5716125 dexter_morgan
dexter_morgan's picture

probably because they are the current global reserve currency? If they print like crazy if just causes hyperinflation. The US model may not be the one you want to emulate though.......

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 12:36 | 5716085 slaughterer
slaughterer's picture

What about all the wealthy Greeks living in their luxury boats in the harbor?  Can't we get them to pay for all this?

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 13:18 | 5716309 thamnosma
thamnosma's picture

Sure, take all their stuff.  That will pay for a few months of socialist spending.  Then there's no more yachts in the harbor.  Will have to look elsewhere.

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 14:01 | 5716523 GoldSilverBitcoinBug
GoldSilverBitcoinBug's picture

No Yatchts anymore but full of homeless wandering around and peoples lining up at the grocery to buy paper toilet. Well they can use Drachma and Bolivar to clean their asses.

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 12:37 | 5716091 Bill of Rights
Bill of Rights's picture

Are mining stocks on vacation? they haven't moved all session...

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 12:39 | 5716093 Reference Variable
Reference Variable's picture

This is the logic of my 3 year old. It's the Venezuala plan, except they have no assets to sell or sieze.

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 13:01 | 5716220 Bernanke'sDaddy
Bernanke'sDaddy's picture

I used to respect Chomsky until the idiot dismissed the 9/11 truth movement.

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 13:09 | 5716270 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

Paid off, just like Snowden (and lets not forget Rand Paul).

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 14:17 | 5716578 StandardDeviant
StandardDeviant's picture

“There will be many very serious obstacles ahead in trying to implement sane and humane policies."

Er, yes, lack of money being amongst the first.

Won't even touch the "sane and humane" part; the whole thing's straight out of the pages of "Atlas Shrugged".

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 12:38 | 5716097 Catullus
Catullus's picture

Hey Germans, they called. Raise the ante on them

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 13:05 | 5716239 Crash N. Burn
Crash N. Burn's picture

"Hey Germans, they called. Raise the ante on them"

 

Going to be a little tricky, this finance minister understands that the German banks - Douchebank et al - are insolvent.

Max Keiser: latest on Greek economic crisis with
Yanis Varoufakis
Wed, 01/28/2015 - 12:39 | 5716101 tommylicious
tommylicious's picture

Troika gonna get it Greek Style.

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 12:51 | 5716152 Bangalore Torpedo
Bangalore Torpedo's picture

We Greased some folks...

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 12:40 | 5716104 geekz_rule
geekz_rule's picture

this is awesome! Im pretty surprised.. I expected he would immediately back off...

 

fuck troika! fuck bond holders. the only buyers of greek bonds in the last 5+years have been financial vultures anyway

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 12:47 | 5716140 elegance
elegance's picture

Turkey double dares them to do it. 

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 12:51 | 5716159 Thisisbullishright
Thisisbullishright's picture

I like my Turkey nice and greecey....

 

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 14:34 | 5716656 Escapedgoat
Escapedgoat's picture

What do you think the visit of the Russsian ambassador was all about?

Maybe those S300 might be activated and some of  this maybe cruising for their winter breaks.

Erdogan may be worrying for his own hide , rather than to do the Tribe's bidding.

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 14:11 | 5716551 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

Greece has to keep buying tanks so that Greeks will have jobs.

Their whole economy is set up the same way.

It only works with borrowed money, unfortunately.

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 12:42 | 5716115 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

It's good to see somebody finally telling the bankers to fuck off. Hopefully it goes global.

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 12:41 | 5716116 NoWayJose
NoWayJose's picture

Fortunately (???) this will never happen with the single UNI-PARTY in charge of the US Congress...

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 12:42 | 5716121 QQQBall
QQQBall's picture

This will cause problems. The EU Oligarchs were poised to asset strip Grease.

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 12:47 | 5716133 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

At least the Greeks made a move.  It is probably a wrong move but still it is something.

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 12:47 | 5716134 youngman
youngman's picture

well at some point the Greeks are going to run out of Euros....and that is when we will start to see the real plan......they can pay salaries for a month or two...but no more if they keep raising the costs....and the incomes will not increase at all...no one will visit Greece in this state of affairs....to me it seems this new leader is going to be educated real fast...and he is not going to like what he is learning....meaning that...you cant just give away stuff for free...

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 12:49 | 5716145 cheech_wizard
cheech_wizard's picture

http://www.europac.net/voices/what_if_greece_just_printed_euros_it_needs

Which they should, and it great quantity. :)

 

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 12:51 | 5716156 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

You mean like 48M Americans on food stamps?

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 12:57 | 5716192 Bangalore Torpedo
Bangalore Torpedo's picture

I'm sure he means exactly that!  The upside is that the US food stamp users are a highly intelligent group that will peacefully demonstrate when the till runs dry.

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 13:10 | 5716275 thamnosma
thamnosma's picture

They are?  :-)

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