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Alexis Tsipras' Open Letter To Germany: What You Were Never Told About Greece
Authored by Alexis Tsipras via Syriza.net,
Most of you, dear [German] readers, will have formed a preconception of what this article is about before you actually read it. I am imploring you not to succumb to such preconceptions. Prejudice was never a good guide, especially during periods when an economic crisis reinforces stereotypes and breeds biggotry, nationalism, even violence.
In 2010, the Greek state ceased to be able to service its debt. Unfortunately, European officials decided to pretend that this problem could be overcome by means of the largest loan in history on condition of fiscal austerity that would, with mathematical precision, shrink the national income from which both new and old loans must be paid. An insolvency problem was thus dealt with as if it were a case of illiquidity.
In other words, Europe adopted the tactics of the least reputable bankers who refuse to acknowledge bad loans, preferring to grant new ones to the insolvent entity so as to pretend that the original loan is performing while extending the bankruptcy into the future. Nothing more than common sense was required to see that the application of the 'extend and pretend' tactic would lead my country to a tragic state. That instead of Greece's stabilization, Europe was creating the circumstances for a self-reinforcing crisis that undermines the foundations of Europe itself.
My party, and I personally, disagreed fiercely with the May 2010 loan agreement not because you, the citizens of Germany, did not give us enough money but because you gave us much, much more than you should have and our government accepted far, far more than it had a right to. Money that would, in any case, neither help the people of Greece (as it was being thrown into the black hole of an unsustainable debt) nor prevent the ballooning of Greek government debt, at great expense to the Greek and German taxpayer.
Indeed, even before a full year had gone by, from 2011 onwards, our predictions were confirmed. The combination of gigantic new loans and stringent government spending cuts that depressed incomes not only failed to rein the debt in but, also, punished the weakest of citizens turning people who had hitherto been living a measured, modest life into paupers and beggars, denying them above all else their dignity. The collapse of incomes pushed thousands of firms into bankruptcy boosting the oligopolistic power of surviving large firms. Thus, prices have been falling but more slowly than wages and salaries, pushing down overall demand for goods and services and crushing nominal incomes while debts continue their inexorable rise. In this setting, the deficit of hope accelerated uncontrollably and, before we knew it, the 'serpent's egg' hatched – the result being neo-Nazis patrolling our neighbourhoods, spreading their message of hatred.
Despite the evident failure of the 'extend and pretend' logic, it is still being implemented to this day. The second Greek 'bailout', enacted in the Spring of 2012, added another huge loan on the weakened shoulders of the Greek taxpayers, "haircut" our social security funds, and financed a ruthless new cleptocracy.
Respected commentators have been referring of recent to Greece's stabilization, even of signs of growth. Alas, 'Greek-covery' is but a mirage which we must put to rest as soon as possible. The recent modest rise of real GDP, to the tune of 0.7%, signals not the end of recession (as has been proclaimed) but, rather, its continuation. Think about it: The same official sources report, for the same quarter, an inflation rate of -1.80%, i.e. deflation. Which means that the 0.7% rise in real GDP was due to a negative growth rate of nominal GDP! In other words, all that happened is that prices declined faster than nominal national income. Not exactly a cause for proclaiming the end of six years of recession!
Allow me to submit to you that this sorry attempt to recruit a new version of 'Greek statistics', in order to declare the ongoing Greek crisis over, is an insult to all Europeans who, at long last, deserve the truth about Greece and about Europe. So, let me be frank: Greece's debt is currently unsustainable and will never be serviced, especially while Greece is being subjected to continuous fiscal waterboarding. The insistence in these dead-end policies, and in the denial of simple arithmetic, costs the German taxpayer dearly while, at once, condemning to a proud European nation to permanent indignity. What is even worse: In this manner, before long the Germans turn against the Greeks, the Greeks against the Germans and, unsurprisingly, the European Ideal suffers catastrophic losses.
Germany, and in particular the hard-working German workers, have nothing to fear from a SYRIZA victory. The opposite holds. Our task is not to confront our partners. It is not to secure larger loans or, equivalently, the right to higher deficits. Our target is, rather, the country's stabilization, balanced budgets and, of course, the end of the grand squeeze of the weaker Greek taxpayers in the context of a loan agreement that is simply unenforceable. We are committed to end 'extend and pretend' logic not against German citizens but with a view to the mutual advantages for all Europeans.
Dear readers, I understand that, behind your 'demand' that our government fulfills all of its 'contractual obligations' hides the fear that, if you let us Greeks some breathing space, we shall return to our bad, old ways. I acknowledge this anxiety. However, let me say that it was not SYRIZA that incubated the cleptocracy which today pretends to strive for 'reforms', as long as these 'reforms' do not affect their ill-gotten privileges. We are ready and willing to introduce major reforms for which we are now seeking a mandate to implement from the Greek electorate, naturally in collaboration with our European partners.
Our task is to bring about a European New Deal within which our people can breathe, create and live in dignity.
A great opportunity for Europe is about to be born in Greece. An opportunity Europe can ill afford to miss.
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of course it is, which is why the tough talk about kicking Greece out of the Euro pre-Tsipras victory has all of a sudden stopped. Uh-oh.
"When it gets serious you have to lie"
So what's the problem?
Gotta love how Greece thinks all their problems are going to be solved by electing Communisits. Good luck with that.
Yeah! Because the corporate ass kissers in 'Murka are so much better at telling everyone else how to run their life from their capitalist-owned, proudly ignorant, surveillance-police state.
After all, everyone knows that reforms can only come from angry and serious posts on a message board. Or, from conservative white dudes with scraggly, gray, facial hair who are wearing faded and tattered camo, toting some kind of assault rifle, and waving a Don't Tread On Me flag.
If you keep blowing red, white and blue capitalist smoke up your own ass without ever going outside to experience the real world, it's amazing what you can get yourself to believe!
Nice conflation George, you should teach a class..
It seems that jumping to smart-assed conclusions based on personal biases, preconceptions and ignorance is the norm here. Just joining in.
the real vote for ending this sorry situation in greece was the vote for golden dawn.. and that is why the previous and current governments, both scared shitless of GD, have half their MPs held in prison.
Our target is, rather, the country's stabilization, balanced budgets and, of course, the end of the grand squeeze of the weaker Greek taxpayers in the context of a loan agreement that is simply unenforceable.
yeah, these commie guys are cray cray.
Since when do people on ZH believe politicians? You really think this dumbfuck is going to balance teh budget? LMFAO. Read up on their platform and wave Greece goodbye.
many on ZH don't fall for the left right paradigm. It's pretty evident what was going on was not only not working, was actual theft on a national level.
I would rather have leftist commies fucking things up by trying to give to the poor than the outright blackmail and theft that has gone on for the past decades which has been in plain sight for the past 6+ years. LMFAO.
They should have made structural reforms in the last 4 years but failed. Now they are going for the commie routine.... just sit back and buy some popcorn. Left vs Right isn't even an issue here. It is freedom vs more government control. You favour a local commissar over one from Europe. I don't see a difference.
just remember to wash down that popcorn with some Kool Aid.
There were no structural reforms that could be made in Greece that would solve anything. There are no structural reforms that can be made in the West that will solve the debt overhang. If the rest of Europe was so concerned about Greece they would have just stopped lending them money. But they don't want to. They want to keep Greece and the west under their thumbs and bleed them dry. It's kind of like payday loans. There is no desire for the lenders to have the borrower actually pay it back but to continually bleed them for more and more.
Structural reforms are code for sell us your shit cheap as we continue to bury you.
Enjoy your Kool Aid if you actually believe what you say. Structural reforms. LMFAO.
edit: Greek national debt: 175% of GDP. 423Billion Euros. 11 million people. 38000Euros per person. 152000euros per family of 4. Average salary 20000Euro, unemployment 25%.
Structural reforms.....good one.
Hey numb nuts I'm not against default. I was for it from the start. But what good does it do when you get a close to communist government to get things started again after said default? Maybe, just maybe, structural reforms would have come in handy. Unicorns and rainbows after default right?
I thought it wasn't about left or right?
You were for it before you were against it.
Was it a communist government that failed to implement these 'structural reforms'? Would they do better if they were in power now?
You make no sense and flip flop.
Communism/ socialsim = government control not freedom. Hard to grasp, I understand. Have a look at Venezuela for a nice example. They, the new powers that be in Greece, have already stated that reforms that have been made will be cancelled.
so then it is about left right then to you.
For me, I see a group that was in league with the theft and now the new group isn't. Or so they say. Out of the 2 options, I would take the one that isn't stealing everything in sight.
See you assume socialists won't steal, cause more massive poverty. Well I guess we'll know within 5 years. I take my negative outlook from history.Your whole argument is basically the Obama 2007 defence...
I don't assume anything. I do see that as of now, in this moment in time, in reality, there were only 2 choices. Status quo of theft or switch to a new party that offered something different. There were no other choices.
The choice seems easy. Stop the theft and live with the consequences.
You seem to be all Unicorns and rainbows bringing up some fictional scenario that was never in play and now are trying to defend your point of view with guesses on what may happen.
Given the 2 choices, the greeks took the right one.
The Greeks want to STAY in the euro. The policies your new chump advocates will not work inside the euro area. So either he's a dumbfuck or he lied to the people of Greece. Either way, same old same old.
so the status quo would have been better? Structural reforms? more loans.
Sorry, I am done here. you are going around in circles.
The best choice was made. The letter makes 100% sense. We will see how it plays out.
Iceland is a socialist country too, and they did it. Greece can do the same. We will see what actually happens.
You can guess all you want.
You aren't guessing of course (lol). We both don't know how it will pan out. But Greek history and the history of socialism gives us some hints. There is a reason why greek people want to stay in the Euro and say no to the Drachma. It looks like the Drachma will be forced on them by these guys.
I agree with most of what you said. This loony left guy is an idiot. I too see it as govt control vs liberty. Sure, they chose local govt control instead of Brussels control, which I suppose MAY be a little better, but in the end, there is no left/right bullshit. There is libertarian vs authoritarian. They chose a version of authoritarian that offers nothing new, nothing that hasn't been tried before. I would think people who frequent this blog would know better than to think the govt can or will solve problems created by govt, but judging by a lot of these comments, I was mistaken.
Many don't fall for the left-right paradigm.
Many MOAR get pulled into the Republican camp by Paul family hucksterism.
Excuse me, but you read a letter and you are sold?
Ok: I love you. Can I borrow $100?
sure. But there is a small interest fee.
... and you don't actually get the $100. But you do get the interest fee and the debt of $100.
I like this. It beats working for a living.
I will take the first fee and charge another fee too.
TYLER!!!
WE GOT A COUPLE OF BANKSTERS HERE!
+1 best/ funniest comment of the thread. These people should know better than to be so trusting. If they loan you the 100 let me know, I have a bridge to sell.
Don't worry when this guy falls flat on his face....and he will. It won't be because he had no plan or a stupid ass unicorn plan, it'll be because of some boogie man or bankers or capitalists or right wingers or Germans or...... You see socialism never fails in the eyes of a socialist. They just needed more socialism and didn't get it. I also love part where he says "the german worker has nothing to fear". Except of course to loss of their hard earned money. How bout this: no more money from anybody. Deal with your shit yourself. You don't like Germans? Then no more dirty German money for you. You want "reparations"? Then come take it.
His plan need consist of only two words: "Tax Derivatives".
Well, maybe you're right. I don't know enough about what's happening on the ground in Greece to know.
But, you do have to be very careful about knee jerk reactions to labels. Does anyone here seriously believe that America is 'capitalist' ? Do you think 'liberals' are actually liberal in the sense that Jefferson would have understood that term? Do you think 'conservatives' are actually conservative ?
Usually those labels are behind very simplistic, shallow parroting of the words of others. Often those who use the terms have no idea what they mean, but they apply the 'good' terms to their 'team', and the 'bad' terms to the other guy's 'team'.
Official: Merkel wants a "Treuhand" for Europe!
Germany becomes now a key factor for the desirable federalization of the eurozone through an unprecedented "haircut" of the social state, labor rights, pensions and salaries, in the name of the fiscal discipline and competitiveness. Dijsselbloem's "suggestions" to Germany show characteristically that the power will be transferred from Berlin to Brussels and to the European economic mechanisms which already took the power from politicians through Draghi's decisions.
Let's hope that the big counterattack against this nightmare will start from Greece
Legitimate
No doubt bankers did not want default due to financial repurcussions. Default is a way of life that all creditors must deal with. How many defaults during the US home crisis???? Should have been more but many were allowed to stay in their homes for years rent free or loans written down. Greece is no different, they needed to default back then
Greece is out of the Euro in 3..2...1...
In your dreams! Greece is going to let the fucker ride.
Sanity and sense from a politican. I'm stunned, and my world paradigm of all_rulers_are_evil is being challenged. Somebody dig up this man's skeletons, quick!
Bravo on the content, however the actions will prove whether or not Tsipras has what it will take to bring Greece back.
MOAR Socialism is not the answer. The best thing he can do is tell the European banks to screw themselves, shut down the central government, and let the free market take over.
Even if that means Golden Dawn killing thousands of immigrants bleeding the system dry. As long as the welfare state exists, a country is doomed. Only ever increasing debt can fund welfare.
Don't you just hate when those the media likes to call "left-wing socialists" use facts and speak the truth that the corporate controlled media tries to hide?
Hey this guy can be president of the US in 2016. I like his style!
Is there a Greek version of Dealy Plaza in Athens? If so, he might want to take another route during the victory parade.
Yep, he would be the second non citizen to be US president.
The US already has a left-wing socialist in charge. Don't trust any of them. It's always "Read my lips, no new taxes" right before they put the chains around your ankles.
More like handcuffing your wrists to your ankles while telling you stand up and take it in the ass 'for your own good'.
https://www.opendemocracy.net/can-europe-make-it/thomas-fazi/troika-save...
Really? NGO supported by Ford foundation, Rockffelers and many other great "philantropists" is spreading misinformation.. how nice.
https://www.opendemocracy.net/about/our_supporters
so what
care to dispute the content? didn't think so. it is a well known FACT that nearly all of the bailout $ went to foreign banks not Greece
they did but a few german submarines with some of the "bailout" money.
Why would troika (or anyone else) be saving deadbeats? So they can take on more debt they can't pay?
the only reason you loan someone money, you know they can't pay back, is if they have something you want, that's not for sale.
Bye Bye Euro.
Greece is not compatible with Germany! It has never been and never will be!
Lots of Germans like sunbaking on Greek shores though...
I almost want to send him a zero hedge t-shirt.
Let him buy his own and learn to live without handouts.
Short and sweet.
" That giant sucking sound " ...this guy gets it.
Germany open reply letter to radical lefties in Greece:
http://youtu.be/ZomwVcGt0LE
Probably the most eloquent admission of debt default you'll ever read.
Like music to my ears!
Incredibly well written, and every word of it true.
Arab Spring, Occupy Wall St, Scottish Independent, Catalonia, HK's Occupy Central, all failed to do what Greece has done - and that is, at least politically, start to break free from Wall Street financial terrorists.
I mean, would a 3rd party like Syriza ever exist in the United States? Methinks the FBI and NSA (with help from the Democrats, not just Republicans) are surveilling us for that reason, and not to stop islamic terrorists (note: political folks love the terrorist attacks).
Bravo Bravo. Give it to them. Muthafuckers.
Hey Central Banks and European Bureaucrats - THE TRUTH HURTS.
But coming from a source you thought you had in your pocket.
I watched Papandreou try to justify his bullshit lapdog stance last night on Newsnight. Hang em high. Samaras, you've just been sounded out as a fraud too.
I hope the German people hear this truth too.
Way too much truthiness for this guy to stay in power much longer...
http://olduvai.ca
Well. Surely this is the last straw. Obama must invade.
This guy sounds like he hates freedumb!
Obviously due for a radical lone-gunman type situation in Athens in the next day or so.
Yes, but who will he invade? Does it matter who?
Timing is everything...
I think Darth Soros just jumped into the fire!
Wow, I wonder when he will get suicided. You start making too much sense in this insane world and nail guns start shooting without a carpenter...stange days.
Well this letter took a lot of balls! At his point he's got Obama's balls, Putin's Balls (Putin has not made any grand announcements as of late), and all of the EU leaders's balls. Kudos to you Tsipras.
There seems to be an underlying eppeal to all the citizens of Germany to demand change in the way the affairs of State are conducted. Less corrupted oligarcs, and more up-front honest declaration of what is truly going on in Europe.
If I were a poker player, i'd say Tsipras is going all in. He might as well be, his days are numbered...
Alexis: Keep your enemies close, and your bodyguards closer.
'Dear Readers' .... yep, that sounds just like Communist jargon to me.
Stay out of the skies Mr. Tsipras, just a helpful suggestion.
Um, so just forgive our debt and we'll be on our way!
BRAVO !
It says it all.
The shit tide is coming in fast for us in the West and we're already up to our necks in shit boys!
That's ok i've got my rubber boat and my paddle. I'm good to go.
"Extend and pretend" - he must read Zero Hedge.
Possibly his script-writer does.
translation: suck my greek appendage you fucking nazi bitchez
He is absolutely right about the debt, but the Maoists and Trotkyists that are part of Syriza are going to implement economic policies that wreck Greece.
"implement economic policies that wreck Greece "
does this mean that GR is not an economic wreck today? deep thinker you are. lmao
If a stock goes from $100 to $10, it falls 90%. If it falls from $10 to $1, it falls 90%. To say the stock at $10 will fall 90%, does not imply it hasn't already fallen 90%.
A new piece climbs on to the chessboard
Like all commies, he sort of understands the problem but fails to find the right solution.
First of all, it's not rich vs. poor at the heart of all of society's ills, it's collectives vs. individuals.
Second, his "solutions" will be more theft and redistribution of the ill-gotten gains. Nothing good will emerge from that.
So while his writing is on point with what's wrong with the past 6 years, rest assured there is no chance for Greece to emerge stronger with collectivists calling the shots. The solution to failed central planning and authority is not "better" central planning and authority. It's eradicating both.
Bullshit. Unadulterated, unfiltered, brown-colored bullshit.
The Rich are exactly at the heart of society's ills. They want to take all the wealth in the world and redistribute it, too - they just want to give it to their children and their crony friends.
Fuck the rich. Tax them to death. Take away their wealth when they die. Make it a level playing field for the children of all people.
If moar taxes were the solution , my country would be #1 world power.
hint : it's not.
Wealth is not the problem , corruption and lack of real investment is.
End the fed and watch price discovery take care of this mess in a giant shit firework.
If one with the means has more incentives doing R&d for space mining programs instead of momoing a stupid stock index manipulated by fake money , garanteed-to-win by politicians and taxpayer cash , things could go the right way.
""First of all, it's not rich vs. poor at the heart....."
like all rednecks, you do not understand the problem but that doesn't keep your mouth from moving.
in 2010 the GR gubment was given a list of the tax-evaders ie the families that had ruled GR for the last 50 yrs.
they did nothing about it. much like the oligarghs in every land, yours included, that skim the mass of the people.
try and get your news from somewhere other than out of your a**.
...you from Langley, son?
Tsipras is right.
Hardworking Germans have nothing to fear from the Greeks. They only have to fear (further) bailing out the German Banks that bought Greek debt and who are soon going to get fucked by the Greeks.
Greek patriot that remembers his Nation's tragic history meets foreign national not in his own Country that "shames his own"!!!...
Many quadrillions of dollars worth of interest free, debt free money in the form of physical gold are available in the TVM-LSM-666 account whos stated purpose is to benefit humanity. Spread this wealth to the billions of starving people.
Millions of people collectively lost trillions of dollars, but this is not one tenth of one percent to global wealth hidden in the above account. Make these victims of the massive theft of 2008 whole.
https://s3.amazonaws.com/khudes/ltokyoembassiesoutoftokyo.pdf
https://s3.amazonaws.com/khudes/mboard3.pdf
https://s3.amazonaws.com/khudes/BILATERAL.pdf
https://s3.amazonaws.com/khudes/breakthrough.pdf
I think you'll find that these documents are fraudulent... but by all means, check the facts for yourself.
For example, Karen Hudes, who allegedly authored some of these documents on behalf of the World Bank in 2014, worked for the World Bank from 1986 till only 2007.
Over to you...
I don't think people in germany is against reforms in Greece but I don't think they are willing to write of their hard working money they have given out as a loan.
So where is the problem? Want to write off debt and have some more cash? Is that their plan/reform?
Why would germans accept that?
Why would germans accept that?
Because that's what happens when you lend money to someone who can't pay it back.
Ok, and what happens next day? Greek property siezed, no more loans but there is no cash and gold reserves, credit rating as junk, kicked out of EURO zone, no modernization, no work, only poverty and many lazy people (not all but still). What than?
reality is reality. You can't keep borrowing more when you can't pay back the original. Adding more debt doesn't solve any problems or avoid any fictional / guesses about the future. Selling off all your assets at fire sale prices to try and cover unpayable debt is not a recipe for success.
I agree you can't put more cash if there are no reforms, but greeks resisting any real reforms - so what better future does these lefties offer? Nothing. If they will steal that german money, they won't recieve anymore - whats than?
for one, it really is not greeks vs. germans. Read my posts above. There are no reforms that Greece could possible do to ever pay back the money lent.
If the Germans stop lending money to Greeks then the whole theft stops and Greece is much better off and the German people are better off.
NOTHING HAPPENS.
I loan you money, you cannot repay the unsecured loan.
I don't invade you, go to war, or take your property. I made a bad investment.
I write it off, suck it up, and move on.
Your punishment is that your future loan rates from anyone will be skyhigh.
Looneyleft ":Because that's what happens when you lend money to someone who can't pay it back. "
True. Also the banks made Greece open their books before they made the loan(s). They knew they could never pay them back and shorted them.
....I see what you did there.....LOL.
OT, but can't resist...
US 'investment' in Ukraine... US$5 billion.
IMF approved loans to date... US$17 billion.
That moment when you realize you're not fighting an invading army, but your own... PRICELESS!
Read more here and here... and have a nice day :-D
"European New Deal" What is getting built and who pays for it?
I presume that it was ghost-written by his economic advisers. The language contains all sorts of slang that are beyind his modest grasp of English.
But with that said, I can't find fault with anything he signed his name to here.
The german people DID bail-out Greece. YET, those previous bail-outs did not actually go to the PEOPLE of Greece.
YES.
Lets see if this next round will bring out that needed result.
After all, what has been those results so far? The sulling off of Greece at pennies to the dollar.
Pens,
I hope Tsipras is a good money maker, in contrast to a good money man. One finds sources of income to pay off debts and rebuild the economy; the other is a tool of Brussels.
Greece's creditors may get their money back, but the repayment period just got extended by 5 to 10 times. Let's see how good a negotiator Tsipras really is, if he can really help the average Greeks and not just the banksters.
Calendar entry: 1/29/15 - honesty from a politician
Fiscal waterboarding, hope that one catches on.
Beautiful... preach it brother.... yeah he's a politician, but dayum did he says some difficult truths...
i applaud
He is absolutely right, but I still don't understand how the free shit army is going to get their free shit without money printing (more loans and debt).
Duplicate
Default, Drachma, issue new Drachma denominated debt.
3 years, sharp downturn, spend money to house clothe and feed those who need it, after 3 years the bad debt clears and the economy comes roaring back.
Unfortunately the Euro dies, Germany and the ECB write off the losses, and Athens has to pay high rates on new debt after a default - but that's the sane course.
I am intensely cynical - until I see the EUR drop 1000 pips this is all nothing.
Do or do not.
Germany made a bad investment - when you do that you lose money and don't invade.
The drachma will get ganged up by on by Europe and US and will have not quite zimbabwe like inflation, that's one scenario. if they are fiscally disciplined (they won't be) this could work over the long term I just think that it is highly unlikely especially from a socialist/commie population. Ron Paul could have written the above but the difference the above is consistent with Ron Paul's politics. The above is diametrically opposed to the guys political beliefs.
Codespeak for default coming, but can't say that right now.
Yes. And then I'm sure he will still think the German lended way too much and won't ask for more /sarcasm
If I were him, I'd be mobilizing as much of the military as possible to protect the capital... Yugoslavia proves that the NWO has no problem bombing Europeans any more than Muslims.
He makes sense if you accept blindly his chosen starting point for his story. But if not, well, Greece's problems started in the 80s after they got out under of the fascist iron fist and decided that wall to wall socialism was the way forward. That Tsipras won't talk about because, well, he's thinks Mao's cultural revolution had "humanity" if it didn't have much freedom.
I'm looking forward to the days to come :-). So well written and true, I must be dreaming.
Default is in the air. Triggered CDS could create hell.. But he is right in that bad loans, are just that, BAD, and will have to be written off. Interesting times.
Honestly , i've been in france for the last 6 years , and he reminds me of Hollande. Very good politician , words extremely well chosen , to appeal the masses and give them this sentiment of justice and hope , while making perfect sense.
There is only one problem. And its a big fucking one : whatever they sell never comes. Remember santa claus ? Yeah , if it sounds to good to be true , it probably is.
OPA OPA
A European New Deal? There goes private ownership of real estate. 1931 redux. How many times do you have to witness oligarchs engineer financial crises, then pay these pole smoking clowns to hand out lollipops & distract you while they raid the real assets? Hn?
Will any institution actually write this lost down in their leger, or just cover it up?
Oh, and the metals just got hit again.
.
Aaaaannnd CUE Mr. Panos!
Somebody take a cell from this guy's stell balls, grow them in a petri dish, and transplant them into other libertarian politicians.
Never thought I would be impressed by a socialist but today I am.
We're broke... Free Community College for all! That was a Syriza declaration, wasn't it?
Greece will get another EU bailout, but not because anyone expects it to reform its spendthrift ways. Without a bailout, Greece would go broke and its democratic social-welfare state (DSWS) would cease to exist.
That might mean hard times for Greece, but it would be a catastrophe for the EU, which is a cabal of twenty-eight DSWSs. Just as opening the Berlin Wall instantly doomed every Communist prison state to illegitimacy and irrelevance, the death of one DSWS is the death of all.
The masses might still vote for the DSWS, but once its fundamental insolvency is exposed, no one will pay taxes to it, loan money to it, or sell anything to it without advance payment in gold coin.
"Greece will get another EU bailout, but not because anyone expects it to reform its spendthrift ways."
If you had bothered to read what he says, you would know that Tsipras does not want what you and others unwilling to read, call a 'bailout'
When Greece's treasury balance gets close to €0.00, the EU will transfer more funds to it. Of course this won't be called a "bailout"; Tsipras, being a politician, will think up words to justify it.
Nice letter, Mr. Tsirpas. The reasons for bailouts 1 and 2 were quite obvious. Nevermind that Germans were told something completely different and maybe really thought they were helping the "Greek people". Can't speak for everyone but as far as I'm concerned, I never believed one word of it.
Between you, me and the ZH fencepost. We all know how this game works. Your Greek oligarchs drove the train into the wall and now ordinary Greeks are paying for it. When is it ever any different? The oligarchs are everywhere and they call the shots unless the people revolt and remove the oligarchs from control, potentially taking away their ill gotten gains and impoverishing them. We also know what happens next. A new clique or a new elite will emerge.
Dignity, Mr. Tsirpas doesn't pay the bills or feed the family. Humility, buckling down and working hard will. The deck is always stacked against the masses. Unless you're born into privilege, it is very hard to climb the ladders of privilege no matter how successful an individual may be.
Good luck trying to unseat the oligarchs. I'm afraid it will be a very difficult task. In the process however, you will probably hurt those the most which have understood to work hard and produce in order to make something for themselves.
I'm not sure what your letter is trying to accomplish. Are you trying to reconcile with Germans or just fishing for sympathy? With all due respect, your efforts should be directed towards your own people and making sure they don't walk to the banks and take out what is left of the capital.
Your first act in office was visiting a war memorial to commemorate the victims of a Nazi war crime. The second act was to visit the Russian ambassador. Then you reinstated and hired back several federal bureaucrats.
Not quite sure where you're going with this but seems kinda obvious.
Your focus should be your people. The people who elected you. Give them a chance to rebuild the economy. Give them jobs and if they refuse to work, you make them work. Majority of Greeks will probably not mind that someone finally takes out the trash and cleans up the streets.
Lastly, the money that Greeks took is unfortunately all but gone. What are we going to do about that? We can write it off but then we cannot allow the Greek people the benefit of the Euro anylonger. Regardless of who owns the banks or who the oligarchs are, the money will have to saddled onto the German taxpayer (and other Europeans). Keep that in mind.
kalí týchi
"...Your focus should be your people. The people who elected you. Give them a chance to rebuild the economy..."
And exactly how did that work out for Germany? How many years after WWI would you have expectd Germans to live on their knees and work their asses off to repay an unrepayable war debt? Ten years? A hundred years? A thousand years? Faced with that kind of dismal future, it's no wonder the Nazi party was so appealing at the time.
Greeks are no more or less hard-working than Germans were in 1930. That's not the problem. Neither was in any position ot 'rebuild the economy' no matter how hard they worked or how much they sacrificed.
I don't think that's quite right. I am pretty sure that Greeks are lazy boy lovers and that Germans are hard working serious stiff walking people.
+1000000
The Germans defaulted in 1933 and took on the world six years later.
A good example from the German's on the success of default.
In 1953 the German's got 50% debt forgiveness.
Don't feel too sorry for the Germans, they did start two world wars and killed six millions Jews in the holocaust.
The Germans defaulted and became prosperous. Their default was just and the right thing to do. They were punished and devastated as a result by the banksters who conned the US into the war and listened to the psychopath Churchill, and then allied with the geatest mass murderer pysychopath of all time -Stalin - while enabling the other greatest psychopath-Mao- to take over China.
You are lying and completely ignorant of history to say that germany started or was responsible for both World Wars - and the "Holocaust" is laregly a myth, as the numbers are about 80% overstated.
"In 2010, the Greek state ceased to be able to service its debt. Unfortunately, European officials decided to pretend that this problem could be overcome by means of the largest loan in history on condition of fiscal austerity that would, with mathematical precision, shrink the national income from which both new and old loans must be paid. An insolvency problem was thus dealt with as if it were a case of illiquidity."
How true.
"In other words, Europe adopted the tactics of the least reputable bankers who refuse to acknowledge bad loans, preferring to grant new ones to the insolvent entity so as to pretend that the original loan is performing while extending the bankruptcy into the future."
How true.
"My party, and I personally, disagreed fiercely with the May 2010 loan agreement not because you, the citizens of Germany, did not give us enough money but because you gave us much, much more than you should have and our government accepted far, far more than it had a right to."
Excellent point.
I agree. what he says sounds like a realistic assessment of the situation. Enough blame and greed to go around basically. Remains to be seen what they actually do.
They cashed the fucking cheque anyway! Could have invested the money or saved it instead of spending it all.
Now Tsirpas is trying to absolve his people from the mistakes of past governments. That's what this really comes down to. It's not even original.
Where does it begin and where does it end?
yeah, you might wanna wait a while and see how this really goes. he's young and full of fire but he's also a leftist and a politician. First acts? loading the massively bloated public sector with even more promises, thousands more on the public payroll, and Free Shit.. right on the hells of that brilliant move, he's padding his electoral base by granting citizenship to shitloads of illegals (sound familiar?)... you wanna bet in his crusad against the oligarchs, he ends up totally skipping past any real oligarchs and savaging whatever's left of the middle class instead? he's a power-hungry statist who's riding high on a wave of populist rhetoric, but when he needs more Free Shit to keep buying his support, he'll be confiscating anythign he can.. oligarchs will be comfortably out of reach or will have struck a deal. if i turn out to be wrong, great, but i'm not expecting anything good to come of this either.
yeah, you might wanna wait a while and see how this really goes.
A lot of stupid people on here who seem to think that the history of socialism/communism boils down to experiencing a Democrat central-bank backing elitist (Obama) increasing social benefits. You people seriously think that the history of economic struggles for working people against corrupt oligopolies, monopolies, and Central Banks is boiled down to "free shit"? Someone has to have an intervention with Americans to explain history to them. We get it that you hate your president and one of the common criticisms so lazily slung against him by people from the "right" is that he is a communist. He's not. I think real independent, free thinking Americans who feel that the market and people deserve a fair shake might find some common cause with communists whose goal is level that playing field. Certainly, you don't have to be into any resulting centralized power and statism - I know I'm not - but I do realize who some of our only real allies are in this world-wide struggle, and that includes some communists. It is really unreal to me that it is the Americans, bringing their idiotic and outdated (uneducated) anti-communism to situations where real anti-banker pro-liberty reforms could be gained. Wake up - communists and libertarians are very near each other and must not be the enemies.
"The same official sources report, for the same quarter, an inflation rate of -1.80%, i.e. deflation. Which means that the 0.7% rise in real GDP was due to a negative growth rate of nominal GDP!"
Add to that the fact that deflation punishes those in debt.
well, it's a Shmita year after all...
If it doesn't have a wallet or pockets to put a wallet in, then it will not really repay anything. Rather, the real people (those with pockets and wallets) associated with it will pay.
It is important to recognize the myth of all collectives whether of the government, corporate, or institutional varieties. The myth is that collectives are 'People'...except immortal because divorced from an individual physical body and mind. The actual fact of the matter is that colectives are not people.
They can receive and consume money by distributing money to their members or associated people. But they can't really pay. They can only promise that their members or associated people will pay.
Except that they won't.
Because while you cannot divorce yourself from your body or mind, you can comparitively easily divorce yourself from liability ecumbrance from a collective.
Shortly, everyone wants to be members of the 'club' when the club is paying members. No one wants to be a member when the club on net consumes from members.
If you loaned money to a collective that on net is consuming from members rather than paying....then you threw your wealth into a volcano. It is gone. Get over it.
" We are ready and willing to introduce major reforms for which we are now seeking a mandate to implement from the Greek electorate, naturally in collaboration with our European partners."
- First, they should establish a School of Philosophy as I understand the Universities are as corrupt as the US Congress
- Pathos, Ethos, Logos
- Second, Reestablish the Drachma as a funding source instead of depending on outside nations, then set aside all past loans denominated in Euros for instance, treat those loans as separate "old Business" to be dealt with later in the Administration
- Third, stop all sales of Greek assets to Outsiders till it can be determined what is in the National Interest
- Fourth, International Business Deals can proceed swiftly in the case where Precious Metals are used up front in the contract in order to build the national treasury
But what do I know from sitting in my living room in the USA.
Lots of talk but little was said. The same talking points have been recycled in Europe for years. "Far right" parties used the same talking points before any bailouts even happened. Politicians like this are 13 in a dozen.
I will overlook all tidbits. he main thing is does he go to Troika and them to reduce the debt for Greece! And then the action he takes when they won't.