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Putin's Unexpected Victory: Europe Furious That Greece Is Now A Russian Sanctions Veto
Two days ago, Zero Hedge first, and shortly thereafter everyone else, pointed out something stunning: the biggest surprise to emerge so far out of the new anti-Troika/austerity Greek government was not so much its intention to proceed with the first test of "Odious Debt" - this was largely known in advance - but its dramatic pivot away from Germany and Europe, and toward Russia.
As we noted before, not only has Greece already blocked all ongoing privatization processes, a clear snub of Merkel and the Troika which demands the piecemeal blue light special sale of Greece to western buyers as part of the "bailout", but is also looking at plans to reinstate public sector employees and announce increased pensions for those on low incomes: further clear breaches of the Troika's austerity terms.
But the most important message that Tsipras is sending to Europe is that (after meeting the Russian ambassador first upon his election) Greece is now effectively a veto power when it comes to future Russian sanctions!
This was first hinted when the Foreign Minister Nikos Kotzias, who arrives in Brussels today to discuss possible additional sanctions on Russia over the conflict in Ukraine, said a few days ago that the Greek government disagreed with an EU statement in which President Donald Tusk raised the prospect of “further restrictive measures” on Russia. As Bloomberg observed before, in recent months, Kotzias wrote on Twitter that sanctions against Russia weren’t in Greece’s interests. He said in a blog that a new foreign policy for Greece should be focused on stopping the ongoing transformation of the EU “into an idiosyncratic empire, under the rule of Germany.”
And Europe, shocked that one of its own has dared to question its "unanimous" policy toward Russia, a policy driven by the US foreign state department whose opinion of Europe is best captured by the hacked and intercepted "Fuck the EU" outburst by Victoria Nuland in February 2014, has been forced to backtrack. From DPA:
The European Union denied Wednesday that it ignored Greek objections when it issued a statement raising the prospects of new sanctions against Russia.
The row is the first of several clashes expected between Brussels and Greece's new prime minister, Alexis Tsipras, who was elected Sunday on promises to renegotiate the bailout granted to Greece by its European neighbours and the International Monetary Fund.
Tsipras has in the past also spoken out against sanctions on Russia, rejecting the use of "Cold War language."
The EU has imposed several rounds of sanctions on Russia for its role in the Ukraine crisis, notably economic measures restricting Russian access to European credit markets and European exports. On Tuesday morning, EU leaders in a joint statement tasked their foreign ministers with considering "further restrictive measures" when they meet on Thursday.
But Tsipras complained to Greek media that his country had not been consulted on the statement. "Greece do not consent," a statement by Tsipras' office said on Tuesday evening, adding that the announcement from Brussels violated "proper procedure."
A spokesman for EU President Donald Tusk, who issued the statement on behalf of the leaders, denied that Athens had been sidelined during the preparation of the text.
"We consulted everybody, as we always do, and we didn't ignore or sidestep Greece in any way - quite to the contrary," Preben Aamann told dpa. "We tried to find a special solution that would accommodate them."
Actually what the EU "always does" is to ignore the voices and interest of everyone but the most powerful. And as for "not ignoring" Greece, apparently the EU failed. Only this time Greece, its government no longer a Eurozone lackey, will no longer let it slide: "Greek broadcaster Skai said newly appointed Foreign Minister Nikos Kotzias would bring up the issue at Thursday's meeting in Brussels. Tsipras is also expected in the Belgian capital on February 12 for an EU summit that will touch upon the situation in Ukraine."
And here is how Russia just won another completely unexpected victory in Europe: "EU sanctions require unanimity to be implemented, so a Greek veto could block any further measures." And all thanks to the epic blunder by Brussels to allow a European nation to voice its opinion in a democratic fashion.
It wasn't just Zero Hedge who first suggested the Greek Russian pivot: here is RBS' Greg Gibbs who says that there are now "concerns Greek government may threaten to veto further Russian sanctions in exchange for debt relief fuels fear of conflict."
To be sure, Germany, whose theatrical opposition to money printing folded like Boehner's lawn chair last week, as it is now all too clear the preservation of German export dominance (and hence aversion to the DEM) and the sanctity of Deutsche Bank is what it is all about no matter the hyperinflationary concerns of the people, is quite furious that the grand ambitions of Europe's economic powerhouse - which as we reported moments ago has now officially entered deflation - have been crushed by tiny, depression-ridden Greece.
Here is Germany's economy minister Gabriel, who was on the tape earlier, casting fire and brimstone at Greece. From Reuters:
Greece should not burden the rest of Europe with its internal political debates, German Economy Minister Sigmar Gabriel said on Thursday, adding that Greece's own inequalities were to blame for problems that it tried to blame on its multilateral lenders.
Gabriel told parliament Greece should stay in the euro but the new leftist leader Alexis Tsipras must respect the terms of its bailout. Greece could not blame the "troika" of multilateral lenders for its own unfair distribution of wealth, he said.
"All democratic people must respect the democratic decision of voters and a newly-elected government's right to decide its course - but the rest of Europe's citizens should not have to expect changes in Greek politics to burden them," he said.
Of course, as long as the changes in Greek politics allowed the rest of Europe's citizens to continue to benefit at Greek expense, nobody batted an eyelid. But change the equation and all hell breaks loose.
And the final confirmation that suddenly tiny Greece may have all the leverage in Europe is that moments ago Germany's Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier said that European sanctions on Russia are complicated by the "new Greek government."
The good news for Greece, of course, is that it now has all the optionality: it can use its veto power as a bargaining chip to unblock US foreign policy in Ukraine (because at the end of the day, Europe is merely losing as a result of the Russian sanctions) and demand a debt haircut in exchange for siding with John Kerry on further Russian "punishment." Or he may simply hold the line and hold off for a competing, better offer from Russia and the BRICs, whose leverage may be nominal now that crude is plummeting, but if and when the last shale junk bond investor blows up and the US shale renaissance is over sending crude soaring right back to $100, then watch as the oil exporters are back with a bang, and dictating geopolitical terms.
And whatever happens, please don't remind Brussels that point 40 of Syriza's 40 Point Manifesto, aka the "nuclear option", is "Closure of all foreign bases in Greece and withdrawal from NATO."
It is so bad that Business New Europe went so far as to ask if the New Greek Government is "Russia's Trojan horse inside the EU?"
In any event, the European balance of power has just shifted and in a way that nobody anticipated:
The biggest winners: if only for now: Greece and Russia (and, while it will never be admitted, all those Europeans who desperately need the Russian import market).
The biggest losers: all the unelected Eurocrats in Brussels who at this moment are scratching their heads how to bring the bad news that there is no longer unanimity on Russian sanctions to John Kerry, and all thanks to a country nobody thought would dare to speak up.
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"Fuck the EU"
What's that I smell? Could it be another Coloured Revolution in Greece's near future?
We all know the elite is going to put the screws to Greece now just as they did to Egypt. "Replace a government not to our liking and you'll find life very, very hard for you."
I think you are giving TPTB too much credit. They may have plans but boy can they fuck up big time, - look at the Middle East. I say the true is closer to "nobody really is competent enough to run this show, that's why its a shitshow".
If they truly ran the show, Syriza would not have been elected in the first place.
The current state of the Middle East is by design. it essentially breaks down to "if Washington can't have it, no one else can." That's why people refer to America now as "the Empire of Chaos."
Well after being fucked over by the EU what they expect to happen?
Duh
No gas, no Panzers ... Let tme sing the Horst Wessel song while freezing inside immobile Tiger !!s
Wait for when the Greeks question their NATO membership and let the Russians set up a naval base there.
They can't leave the NWO!
http://www.dailyrapid.com/2015/01/bill-gates-calls-global-government/
Brought to you by the guy who advocates putting drugs to sterilize women into flu, malaria and the like vaccines
Fuck the EU, indeed! Thank you Greece.
BTW, I wonder what dirt the NSA has on Merkel to make her so compliant?
Attention K-Mart shoppers. There is a Blue Light Special on "costs" in the Eastern Mediterranean. Stop by the Snack Bar for a Greek Salad with real feta cheese.
I wonder when the CIA will arrest Tsipras then assassinate him... In no particular order.
This the beginning of World War III. First, Germany tried to take over the world with military force, but this time they are conquering countries with austerity. Meanwhile, the hedge funds have allied with Germany in their quest to conquer Europe, and speculators continue to hammer the peripheries with an artillery of credit default swaps and short selling of government debt. Stop this madness! Ban speculation and bring back Europe’s social safety nets. NO MORE AUSTERITY!
The minds of accredited experts need to be brought to bear on this problem if Europe is to be saved.
Does this mean at the next Olympics we'll get to see Greco-Russo Wrestling?
I say the true is closer to "nobody really is competent enough to run this show, that's why its a shitshow".
Cutting to the chase, Valerie Jarrett is not as smart as she thinks she is...
"...All democratic people must respect the democratic decision of voters and a newly-elected government's right to decide its course - but the rest of Europe's citizens should not have to expect changes in Greek politics to burden them," he said..."
WTF?? The sanctions on Russia wouldn't have existed if the U.S would have respected the democratic decision of Ukrainian voters and the Ukrainian government's right to decide it's course.
The EU standing idly by while the U.S. engineers a coup d'etat to overthrow that corrupt prick Yanukovych MERELY to replace him with equally-corrupt Western stooges hardly sounds like respecting anyone's rights to decide their own course.
Apparently they miss the hypocracy aspect...
Yanokovych was surely getting his cut of the deals, but at the same time this was in the pipeline (no pun intended) for the people of Ukraine just two months before Nudelman's $5B coup:
Reduced loan interest, new orders for industry, investment in infrastructure, jobs, economic security.
http://orientalreview.org/2013/12/23/ukrainian-dream-comes-true/
Point taken, FP - there were some aspects to Yanukovych's government that may have helped Ukraine live better on their knees. I just don't think there were any that would have let Ukrainians get OFF their knees.
Still, it's not my decision to make for the Ukrainians. If they wanted to keep voting for him for the next two decades, that's their business entirely.
What I would really like to see today is all of what was Ukraine (Crimea and Donbass included) vote on the legitimacy of the new government. If the new government 'won', then I would forever drop the perjorative terms of junta, coup d'etat, puppets and lapdogs.
What I would have liked to see before they chased Yanukovych out is a vote of confidence in him and the government. If the majority of Ukrainians would have voted to keep that prick and his government, then so be it. It's none of my damn business and it sure as hell is not the business of my government - the U.S. - to decide for the Ukrainian people.
"Ban speculation"
We sure are going to hear a lot of that nonsense as the crisis deepens. If you can't blame Jews or Russians, then speculators will do fine!
Russian Jewish Speculators.
Contradicting the hysterical yarns of the "Commander-In-Chief"? Wouldn't bet on his job security, or longevity for that matter :
http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150129/1017514425.html
You are right; you can’t blame the Jews or Israel. The U.S. House of Representatives says you can’t and in late 2014 unanimously passed legislation that attacks any and all critics of Jews or Israel.
The title of the bill (H.Res.707) is “Condemning all forms of anti-Semitism and rejecting attempts to justify anti-Jewish hatred or violent attacks as an acceptable expression of disapproval or frustration over political events in the Middle East or elsewhere.”
It was authored by Reps. Peter Roskam (R-Ill.), Jerrold Nadler (D-N.Y.) and Kay Granger (R-Texas) to condemn what they describe as “the rising tide of anti-Semitism” around the world.
The bill passed on Sept. 18, according to Tarrah Elizabeth Baptista, “in the aftermath of Israel’s bloody attack on Gaza in the summer of 2014, which left over 2,000 Palestinian dead, 500 of whom where children.”
the Protestants that founded the American Colony were supplanted by the Irish Catholics that arrived after 1846 and the Russian Jews that arrived later found a short cut to the top of the ladder and now pilot the plane
It’s Germany, yes, Million Dollar Bonus, that is trying to hold the EU together, but not the German people; it's the German bankers (Goldman Sachs and the international bankers headquartered in Frankfurt). And the German people need to defend themselves against these banker tyrants the same as Americans against the same force.
The oppression in Europe is causing the people to revolt; the oppression is coming from the banks trying to hold the Eurozone together for their own interests. And Greece just showed the people can‘t stand it and won’t have it. Just as were the Greeks, the German people are being badly represented by the German bankers. It isn’t the German people who are living high; if ever they do achieve a higher standard of living, the bankers swoop in and take the margin.
It’s the same story in America. The American system of free enterprise began to produce unlimited prosperity but then every time it begins to break through, the bankers take it. IOW, what kind of business is it for the financial sector and the banking business to be America’s major industry where it feeds itself off of every accomplishment, every production of labor and every resource America has wrought these past 100 years?
IOW, this system would have produced unbelievably wealth and prosperity around the world if it hadn’t been for the parasites and the tyrants who come to take it; they take the government, they take the corporations, they take the real estate, and now, in order to save themselves, they’re going to take the freedom. Why? The biggest enemy of the bankers is freedom – because people will choose freedom rather than slavery.
I’ve been saying for a long time that the people will vote against this blanket of tyranny. And the Greeks just did. Now, let the German people get rid of those bankers and let America get rid of her banker handcuffs.
As for vassal states, it is Washington’s international financial predators that intend to subvert and turn Russia into a vassal state the same as they have Germany, France, Japan, Canada, Australia, the UK and Ukraine, and the USA.
“Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.” -- H. L. Mencken
Folks, MDB deserves green arrows just for showing up more often lately. Please encourage him.
MDB, you're waaaaay behind on the Germany-tried-twice-to-take-over-the-world fabrications and hoaxes.
It's not you're fault, we've all been fed the required academic lies. But that was then and this is now, and it is high time to work from what acutally happened, not what is printed in propaganda (history) books or listening to the media yammering about the fairytale du jour.
@hh ~ What? no goats on your ranch? I'm shocked SHOCKED!
And after I've been told you're a goat fucker! Who's got your goats?!?!?
(I jest. Hedgeless is da bes Hedger.)
.
Funny you should mention that. There's an interesting article at Russia Insider from a couple days ago that makes the point that Merkel might be motivated by her own interests and the interests of certain German oligarchs, to the detriment of other Germans, and that speculation about blackmail might just be a convenient way to hide her real motivations.
[...]
http://russia-insider.com/en/2015/01/26/2772
there's the exit greece - now foxtrot oscar
Muchas Gracias for the link, Stooge :-_)
So I take it that Merckel & Hitlery are an item?
Thanks,
that image ruined my lunch.
Might as well toss in Willy watching and spanking it in the corner too.
*shudders*
Anonymous has a different take. Don't know if it is true, but I thought I'd throw it out there.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHYCTqB1dD4
@Latina Lover: That is the question that more and more people are asking themselves in Germany.
"BTW, I wonder what dirt the NSA has on Merkel to make her so compliant?"
Perhaps now people will understand the true power of NSA spying: Get into the private lives and heads of corporate and political leaders... know everything about the movers & shakers who matter the most.
The rest of us are just "Collateral Benefits".
Is this like an Archduke Ferdinand moment?
If not that, then at least an Iceland moment. Which to WS Banksters, that might make it an Archduke Ferdinand moment
The war will always be over by Christmas, they said.......
Then again, there's always the casual "Operation Linebacker II" surprise... & then there's THIS
Ho hum...
Is this like an Archduke Ferdinand moment?
As usual only two options provided... pivot east/west, left/right...just do not think about a unilateral declaration of independence from all foreign or governmental intrusions.
Brought to you by the guy who advocates putting drugs to sterilize women into flu, malaria and the like vaccines
You say that like it's a bad thing. The world needs less of the African parasites who breed like there is no tomorrow.
You are truly suited to working for the socio paths. You have absorbed the way things are just as your masters taught you to comprehend them, and unless you are a total useless twit, you should be profiting handsomely off the extremely long term engineered misery of others.
Bill Gates: It's so wonderful what he is doing for Africa - bringing them inoculations so that they can overpopulate the continent even faster and wipe it out completely, replacing God's rich diversity of animals with a monoculture of human consumers. :^) (edited)
Don't not forget his wife installing a spy network via cheap mobile phones to lock mothers into enforced vaccination programs before her baby is even born and consent is given.
That would change the dynamics of the Ukraine crisis somewhat!
If Sevastapol could be moved directly onto the Mediterranean.
If I am not mistaken, don't they already have a Naval presence in Cypress? Now they get some land bases to go with the island bases
Edit:
With Ukraine, Black Sea, Georgia and now possibly Greece. Maybe it is Turkey that should be getting concerned.
GAME ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I see that Cyprus is still under the spell of the spellchecker. There is a British Sovereign Military Base, in Cyprus
Voodoo spell. I stand corrected.
Anyway, from ZH a while back http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-03-17/russia-sending-permanent-warshi...
Yes. Cypress is a tree. Mostly lives in swamps. :-)
Whereas Miley Cyrus is a singer. (Cyrus, also not Cyprus.)
And there is this guy named Cyrus who rides around in a Red Corvette, carries a gun, saftey always "OFF".
One word: Turkey.
One word: Turkey.
So nice you said it twice?
The Greeks and Turks absolutely 100% forever HATE each other. It's the biggest hate-fest you can imagine between two countries. I mean they really, really hate each other. I can't think of a comparable level of hate for any two other countries. It's several thousand years of hate. How they both are in NATO in the first place is really shocking. They even had a shooting war 40 years ago, while they were both in NATO.
brothers from different mothers
If Turkey and Greece can resolve their differences over Cyprus, that will remove legal impediments to oil/gas exploration offshore. That will bring in da loot.
At the moment they get 100% of nothing. If they use diplomacy to solve Cyprus, they may get 50% each of something pretty large. Then F*ck the EU, US and NATO.
Biggest hate fest ever? I'll take suni vs shia for the win.
is "fucked" the new word for "bailed out"? Then perhaps I have to reassess what Victoria Nuland really meant: "Bail out the EU"
knukles, a heartfelt "Bail you out" for your comment, and thanks for this new thing you thought me today
Lol. As if Germany didn´t like that sanctions against Russia are blocked at the moment. Germany doesn´t like those sanctions too, they cost us a lot of money. Now Greece is the perfect scapegoat for not doing them. That new Greek clowns government is soo stupid.
right, but now they can blame it on Greece ... look is them not us, what can we do???
This was a way Germany and France to end sanctions and save face with US in short term. Turkey is next card to openly turn to BRICS. I think we can see the game unfold now.
bingo, +1
"The current state of the Middle East is by design"
A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm [greater Israel from the Tigress to the Euphrates]
http://www.dougfeith.com/docs/Clean_Break.pdf
The Project for the New American Century - [Neocon PNAC Revolutionaties New Pearl Harbor]
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/pdf/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf
"The current state of the Middle East is by design"
It helps to sustain the "war on terror" and keep the plebs scared and submissive.
It also helps fill newspaper headlines so those pesky fuckers asking questions about MH17 don/t get any mainstream coverage.
Perhaps America's defenition of "isolation" is different from the rest of the world?
We consulted everybody, as we always do, and we didn't ignore or sidestep Greece in any way - quite to the contrary.
"Never believe anything in politics until it has been officially denied." - Otto von Bismarck quotes from BrainyQuote.com.
Greece finally discovers the OTHER kind of leverage.
Yes, a smart guy, that Tsipras. He has just touched the EU's balls. Getting ready for squeeze.
It is a mistake to underestimate TPTB. They are fully in charge of all of this, they may miss on small goals, but they never give up and are always working towards theie two large goals. Which are:
1. Depopulate the world of "useless eaters" with WWIII. (Which includes building up Russia and China in preparation for this. See Greece's turn toward Russia)
2. Burn everything (nations, economies, religions) to the ground and create a global governement where their power is absolute, and the remaining peasants are ruled by TPTB and the technolgy they control.
The only thing that stops all of this is a mass global awakening, because the current 10% or so that are awake are not enough.
10% !!!! ROFL! Other than Zero Hedge, which has maybe 2,000 members, where are the rest of the awakened people you talk about? .0001 Awake, maybe.
The last time I checked, there were fewer than 750 technically active user accounts. However, 750 users aren't regularly generating 100,000 page view per article or over 5 million page views by over 600k unique "visitors" each day (and I don't think the NSA has that many bots...
Now if we could just swap some of the useless troll/bot accounts for some some the users who have voluntarily or forcibly went AWOL over the last couple years...
How about 19,000 reads on this article? Sounds like a small amount, but believe me, many of the 2,000 members (if that's the figure...) come from all over the world, in all kinds of professions. And they in turn, influence and inform others. You'd be surprised where some of us work...
Agreed. I have awakened many folks in my office. They are not registered users...but I forward these articles all the time.
Boom. Someone said it. Now, watch this article get demoted so that that message is not as widely consumed as the false east west divide narrative...
A bigger mistake would be to overestimate TPTB. That would deter the other 90% from awakening.
I thought, because of the incredibly speedy inauguration and the finished coalition pact already one day after the elections (who can nail down a honest pact at that speed), that Tsipras was controlled opposition.
It's too early for a final verdict, but his (and his government's) actions since Sunday indicate, they seem not to be controlled opposition. Which was like a small miracle and I still have problems to believe it.
Now things will become interesting, because New York and the City of London, the international banksters and their political collaborators cannot allow that a tiny and bancrupt country gives the world hope that resistance against the NWO is possible.
I am afraid Tsipras life expectancy is dropping with every day now.
the benchmark in conspiracist fantasy.
Not a well thought out comment. Iceland already gave the world hope the NWO can be defeated. You should try typing when you are awake sometime.
Reply to Brazen... This
http://www.voltairenet.org/article186543.html
Hey EU, HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, bitchezz
"European sanctions on Russia are complicated by the "new Greek government.""
Interpretation?
....sanctions are difficult when sheeple government minions across Europe do not do exactly as they are told and behave as if they actually have some sovereignty.
Note: I do not support US OR Russian involvement in the Ukraine and I wish Ukrainians could live peacefully governing themselves...I could repeat that for a few dozen other countries around the globe.
Yes, do the greeks secretly have some new fusion technology that will actually increase the carrying capacity of these islands? There that old impossible "growth" meme again.
good luck with that.
The leaders of the West (the Rothschild clan) have cut deals with the new Kings, The East, and will not be reigning terror as they have been for decades. That game has now changed. We will now start to see how this change is going to play out. This is a good first test.
Well, first the Germans pointed out that QE was against the rules and their constitution, that concept was overturned and Germany is sitting down and shutting the fuck up in the face of EU QE. What makes you think that "they" won't just change the rules concerning "unanimity" with regard to sanctions? They'll just announce a "rule change" and not one fucking cunt in the EU will stick up for the rule of law because at this stage all the marbles are at risk and they are running out of ideas that comply with the law.
yes, it will be very interesting to watch if the BundesBank will enact their part of the EUR QE. as a reminder, 80% of that move is in the hands of the member national banks like the BuBa
I agree that it will be interesting to watch but I don't suspect that the BundesBank with do their part of the QE. In fact, it seems that the structure of the QE to have individual countries in charge of 80% was a direct hat tip towards Germany to allow them political cover. The problem is that the 20% of QE retained by Draghi is just the camel's nose slipping under the tent. Once they acclimate the Germans to the 20% it will go up to 25%, etc, etc. It will be interesting to see whether they can boil the frog without him (germany) jumping out (leaving EU)?
Militairy coups are more the greek thing. (1967)
I expect the banksters to sabotage the government frist, by fucking up transactions where ever they can.
Then through a media campaign abroad paint the greek as "irresponsible leftists" who can't manage books.
If that doesn't work, a false falg here and there (blamed on "communists").
Only after that, a militairy coup. Since the militairy there has been showered with money by the industry, that would be an obvious move.
But... it might not work. The european elite are (finally) getting wize to the fact they're thrown under the geo-political bus.
The plot thickens.....
Hey Vlad,
Beware of Greeks bearing gifts.
Or CIA agents posing as Russian Liberals.
While Obama agrees with Tsipras, Lavrov invites Kotzias to Moscow!
"According to TV channel STAR, Obama told Tsipras that Europe must steer away from austerity and pursue growth"
Yes dear Obola, have Tsipras follow your US growth model. Growth in foodstamps, growth in part time jobs, growth in government spending, growth in debt.
It sure gives Greece a lot of leverage to get what it wants from the EU. Hashtag playing both sides.
Fuck you shnitzleface!
I keep hoping for new videos from Mr. Panos, but I just have to keep watching that one.
"Lazy? We're resting."
EUSSA and their stoopid sanctions.
Good going Greece, keep complicating their plans. I like this government already. They are rolling back austerity and are standing up for their people.
Now the EU has even more reason to put the screws to Greece. Disobedience will not be tolerated. I expect this Greek government will not last. Expect more USAID-funded "social media democracy" to spring up. Look at what happened in Egypt... in the Ukraine...
Quick! Send Vicky Nuland to Athens with 5 billion dollars and some cookies!
Winning the hearts and minds with kourambiethes and koulourakia.
Note to the new Greek government, if you do decide to take US currency, just be sure the check clears, then you can give the US embassy the boot.
That's why the Syriza gov must stick to most of its pledges, so far it has......this will build credibility. When the vampires of Brussels tighten the screws, Greeks will hopefully see the EZ for what it is - a cult.
I'm guessing that Greece presents much more of a logistical challenge. Not to mention, they've already endured quite an onslaught, and that's only strengthened their resolve.
I just have to wonder how many western moles still exist after this changeover waiting to unleash further sabotage.
Makes a nice change from the usual bunch of Quislings running the countries in Europe. We're so used to our leaders selling us out to the failing US empire and to the traitorous oligarchs. Looks like one hell of a blowback is picking up speed.
Sad that you would make that statement with the phrasing "our leaders."
Why are you supporting evil in this manner?
not applicable
Love it. Go Greece.
Dem greeks is playin their hand smart like da joos would have. Previously, they had one option. Now they have a number, and they have a measure of power to go along with it.
No surprise here. The Greek slaves have found another oligarch that will give them a better deal.
Perhaps the Germans are willing to forgive all the greek debt?
Same as it ever was.
Same as it ever was? I see that's all you write on every thread. Nobody knows what you are referring to.
You are an idiot. Same as it ever was.
Greece wil do what it must to survive. Persoanlly I don't think Russia can really afford to bail Greece out, what with the plunge in crude prices and all. China, on the other tentacle, can afford anything.
Greece is borrowing simply to pay back the moneylenders. Once they renounce their odious debt, then they no longer need to borrow...
"Greece is borrowing simply to pay back the moneylenders."
As posted yesterday, this Greek government (specifically the finance minister), knows Europes' moneylenders are inslovent.
Max Keiser: latest on Greek economic crisis with
Yanis Varoufakis
Afford?....western bankers have proved paper money is worthless and to be printed at will to bail out friends and family. And there you stand wanking off proclaiming they cant swap oil for food.
Putin grabbed a NATO country, good going banker wankers
May be more than one!
NATO without Turkey and Greece coupled with a pipeline west - neutralizes a lot of things not just militarily but more importantly attitudes which can quickly convert to -
The Emperor (from the Empire of Chaos) has no clothes
with alternative to SWIFT coupled with other currencies and markets the debt becomes a game of "catch me if you can"
this is why Putin is so dangerous to DC - he play three / four / five - dimensional chess while DC plays one game - I'll kill you if you dont comply..... but if you "do" comply I will KILL you slowly
so desperate people do desperate things and take the chance - many other than Greece are there already
Kill you now but if you comply kill you slowly...
Brilliant comment
I am starting to like those Greeks!
Socialist!
You know, I'm beginning to move past isms and ists. If Greece can break the Oligarchy's hold on the EU I could give a fuck what they profess to be. Right now they appear to be anti-unified government, and that sits alright with me. If morons loan them money, let them take their losses. If Governments loan them money or bail out the morons who did, then that is a problem for that government and their people. Stupid should hurt. The more it hurts, the quicker stupid changes.
The best government is virtually no government, but I believe in freedom enough to let the Greek people govern themselves however they want.
I wonder if that is the suggesed meaning of these events.
If greece turns communist and turns around for the better and the eu falls apart, does that not help legitimize global communism which is the essence of the nwo as detailed in agenda 21?
If they can make it work it will be a first. I wish them all the luck in their attempt, so long as they keep their ideas within their own borders.
TPTB most fear that people will get past left/right divides and join together against them. Tsipras's first brilliant move was to form a coalition government with a center right party, one that wasm't owned by the oligatchs.
ah, ZH's vision of european politics is always so refreshing
"The losers: all the unelected Eurocrats in Brussels who at this moment are scratching their heads how to bring the bad news that there is no longer unanimity on Russian sanctions to John Kerry."
come on, this has nothing to do with unelected EuroCrats "in Brussels". this is exactly the "funny language" that led me to post in ZH, because it cheapens, in my eyes, many excellent articles
Tsypras and his cabinet of ministers, since two days, are elected "EuroCrats" themselves. They are ministers of a sovereign nation that is a member of the EU
and as such, they will vote in the next EU Council meetings. which of course means that the last unanimity in the EU Council is now called to be re-discussed
(of course, you could also say that Tsipras and his ministers aren't elected. true, then they are appointed by a majority of the fresh, elected Greek parliament)
what is really incensing for the other governments of the EU is how fast the new Greek leadership wants to rediscuss things, without even waiting for the meetings themselves
Ghordius,
Don't overthink this this. ALL of the countries in the E.U. have been bending rules to suit their interests. Please, what happen to all the collateral requirements etc. before the ECB was suppose to do shit? It seems TBTF is just as prevailent in the E.U. as anywhere else and this is bullshit, period.
Perhaps, like the majority of the fucking planet, the truly productive people/businesses are fucking sick of bankers and financiers giving themselves access to hundreds of billions of freshly printed paper at zero interest.
Why not give the same "loan" terms to anyone with a cash-positive business providing a real product or innovation?
Seems like the E.U. is the perfect example of all animals being created equal, it's just that some animals are "more equal" than others.
As far as I can tell, nothing really changes and real capital and talent are going where they are respected all over the world.
Laws, there are millions of Brits that constantly read in their own media "unelected EuroCrats". this is not overthinking, this is being fed up with propaganda
the EU Countries that did bail out Greece from the "financial markets" have lent to Greece without interest until 2023. and this is a fact
as well as the fact that the Vampire Squid Firmly Attached To The Face Of Humanity cooked Greece's books and organized the inroad for Money Market Paper Fund money from the US to the now called "PIIGS", together with that other crony oligarch that dabbled in US Politics. and this is a fact, too
but no, on ZH I constantly read: "relax, this is how all bankers and financiers operate", implying that all bankers are banksters... because that's "the way"
nope, it is not so. and I have one smallish argument that for some similar reason simply never reaches my American Cousins: note that bankers in the EU had their bonuses capped
then have a look how bankers in London are coping with this (hint: they find workarounds)
tell me why every EU article has to pander those propagandistic untruths. is it to keep a certain "it's all the same, whatever works" mindset that must be kept?
"the EU Countries that did bail out Greece from the "financial markets" have lent to Greece without interest until 2023. and this is a fact" --
And precisely how many fees and or commission or new taxes were collected as part of the deal? None of these deals were done for free. Saying so would be completely disingenous and you know it.
Tell me, how much debt was forgiven? How many greek bankers and greek leaders were held accountable?
I am constantly calling for banker accountability and have been doing so for 30+ years asshat.
With respect to Greece, tell those hypocrites in Brussels to finish the drill you dumb fuck.
how much do you think Tsipras will manage to get forgiven? that discussion has just started
speaking of Tsipras and Greek bankers to jail... well, that ball is in his field, too. he claims he wants to hammer the Greek Oligarcs (his words)
perhaps you might get some popcorn, I don't know the results, then I can't see in the future. some intentions were just stated. we'll see
note that I am sticking to facts, here. judging from the responses... completely unwanted facts. or is the word unwarranted?
"the Vampire Squid Firmly Attached To The Face Of Humanity cooked Greece's books. . ." (and other high crimes and misdemeanors too, I might add.)
Why does the EU still let this criminal enterprise operate in Europe? Why has it not prosecuted The Squid in the european courts and castrated those scumbags? Are the Eurocrats just paper tigers? Where is the justice?
I suggest there are those in Brussels that are in bed with The Squid and its criminal co-conspirators.
Oh, so now I understand: you're a banker or have close friends being bankers.
That's the only way to explain all your wishful thinking and deliberately looking the other way in certain aspects.
EU Countries have lent to Greece without interest until 2023. and this is a fact
yes, in fact they changed the interest afterwards, so they didn't need to do write offs on their balance sheets. Don't worry, they will also extend the interest free period to 2033 or 2300 if necessary...
Now think about who they are. Hint: it's not US banks...
Vampire Squid Firmly organized the inroad for Money Market Paper Fund money from the US to the now called "PIIGS"
hmm, the ambigouos statement
Is it now good because GS funneled more money to the (bankrupt) PIIGS, even US money well no actually only US MMPF money to which we don't know who invested in those,
or is it bad because they actually want that money to be paid back with interest?
implying that all bankers are banksters
All of them? No, a small village of indomitable whatevers still holds out against the malfeasance and corruption!!1!
You're making yourself ridiculous with that excuse searching!
There, look there: the EU bankers had their bonuses capped!!
That proves it, the EU bankers are all good guys!!!!!
Oh wait, they are finding workarounds?
Ahem, did you just contradict your own argument?
just this: banking CAN be a facility. It does not have to be a thing of monsters. that simple
And that helps me how exactly in the current environment?
Or vindicates your "facts" I have refuted??
Ah, Ghordius. You seek to preserve all that is good in the EU project without a realistic calculus of the costs.
I'm sympathetic to your view that the ZH dialogue/polemic on the Greece situation is too often simplistic. But you speak of Greek "sovereignty". The precise aim of the Euro-crats is to thwart and obstruct local/national "sovereignty".
The EU was doing fine until the Euro and the subsequent eastern expansion of NATO after the Yugoslavia debacle. Its reach has now exceeded its grasp.
It would be better for all of us who believe in the European project to admit that less might end up being more.
Exactly. Just like everywhere else, no one will be held accountable.
On the contrary, I think you know better than most that the Laws of Thermodynamics will, in the end, hold someone accountable.
This whole debate is about who will bear the brunt of the suffering. Perhaps you meant that those responsible will not be held accountable.
+1 "This whole debate is about who will bear the brunt of the suffering". correct, and Laws, as many, here, is asking for blood
Captain, very happy that you address me, I've read your comments and was impressed by them
what is sovereignty? there is a chain of American thought that somehow implies that sovereignty means you can say "Fuck you" to whatever you wish... and get away with it
I maintain that the first is somehow true. but the second... no. that has more to do with power. in the sense that sovereigns can be invaded or trashed or forced to do things they would rather not
Greece can step out of either club, be it the EUR or the EU or both. Greece has it's own army, taxes, budget, police, etc. Greece is sovereign, not "sovereign"
may I point out that you used the "EuroCrat" label wrongly, too? Tsipras and his ministers are, now, EuroCrats themselves. They will vote in the EU Council
the meme of "EuroCrats thwarting and obstructing local/national sovereignty" has attached itself even to your excellent mind. take that meme apart, please, and check it for soundness
there are four major clubs to which Greece is a member: IMF, NATO, EU and EUR. and those clubs are different from each other, and have different rules
note that the decision to expand NATO was done under protest of certain members, particularly when Washington added the "EU" membership as sweetener
at the end, we had Bush promising the EU membership to Turkey, and that was the straw that broke the camel's back
Dear Ghordius:
Let us attempt to untangle the knot here.
As you can see from my comments in paragraph 3, I'm not conflating the four major clubs. In fact, I was making your point, perhaps ineloquently.
The Steel & Coal union morphed into a trade treaty (so far so good) which morphed into Schengen/residency/work permits (also ok) which morphed simultaneaously into the Euro project (bad) and the use of the EU as a platform to thrust NATO eastward (bad). This was my point.
I agree with you on the issue of sovereignty.
But my overall point is that the EU project become a Hydra. Less ambitious goals, like free trade and freedom of movement, would be better than a Utopian, internationalist project that has been co-opted by oligarchs and US foreign policy.
As we approach the 200th anniversary of the Congress of Vienna, it is well to reflect on its failure to recognize the need for European institutions to be responsive to local/national interests. This current European project isn't the first one to fail from hubris.
Captain, re. "But my overall point is that the EU project become a Hydra "... it was always a Hydra. the whole point of a Hydra is that it has many heads
the whole article here is about "the Hydra" that has sanctions going on versus Russia, and all heads were unanimously for them
now the new Greek head is arguing. how the heck can this be miscontrued as "internationalist project that has been co-opted by oligarchs and US foreign policy" when those same forces would prefer it's dismantlement, or the reduction of it's influence, or, as Victoria Nuland says, "Fuck the EU"?
how can you still ride on that old, comfy horse of "...the need for European institutions to be responsive to local/national interests"?
+1 the Congress of Vienna was a similar Hydra. methinks you should reconsider if the Hydra is really that monster that is so unconsciously taken as granted, in the AngloSphere
Any discussion of EU administrative law procedure matrix is likely to make people's head explode. But to oversimplify a defense of the sheeple speak that certain political parties adopt with respect to "unelected bureaucrates in Brussels" or any variation thereof- I would direct you to the Commission's oath of office.
I (insert EUcrat douchebag name here) solemnly undertake:
to respect the Treaties and the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union in the fulfilment of all my duties;
to be completely independent in carrying out my responsibilities, in the general interest of the Union;
in the performance of my tasks, neither to seek nor to take instructions from any Government or from any other institution, body, office or entity;
to refrain from any action incompatible with my duties or the performance of my tasks.
I formally note the undertaking of each Member State to respect this principle and not to seek to influence Members of the Commission in the performance of their tasks.
I further undertake to respect, both during and after my term of office, the obligation arising therefrom, and in particular the duty to behave with integrity and discretion as regards the acceptance, after I have ceased to hold office, of certain appointments or benefits.
Creaping Unitary Statism is the natural product of the EU system as designed and implmented. While in USSA the 2 party L/R false paradigm rules, in the EUSSR it the false paradigm of any significant distinction between the the myriad "moderate" parties rules - "any color as long as it is black", has become "any party as long as it is statist". There is an actual distinction between the "moderates" and the "radicals" and at least the "radicals" in the EUSSR can be elected to public office, but the "moderates" are merely a confederation of Statists who have both time and the feedback mechansims of their Frankenfreak Rube Goldberg machine on their side.
UR... no
Tsipras and his ministers are just proving, for all to see if they open their eyes, that the ruling body (the "crat" part of "EuroCrat") in the EU Council. i.e. that they are now "EuroCrats", too
you are pointing to the EU Commission, which still is like pointing to the minister's secretary instead of the minister
and so you are reverting to the "it has to be like the US" assumption
Ghordius, you're right- I was assuming European politicians would take their solemn oath of office of as seriously as American politicians do... (excuse me while I wipe the snark off my keyboard and monitor)
The very first law passed in the US in 1789 was the Oath Act, which made the official oath of office "I, (insert congress critter name here) a Representative of the United States in the Congress thereof, do solemnly swear or affirm (as the case may be) that I will support the Constitution of the United States." The current Rube Goldberg oath in the USSA is, "I (insert congress critter name here) do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter: So help me God." There always should be a debate about whether an elected representative serves his constituents first, or the institution to which he was elected, and if the voters don't approve of their elected official's position, then they are free to elect someone else, apparently except in the EU. There was a period during the War of Northern Aggression, where the US Congress used a different oath, and someone actually had the moral and intellectual integrity to resign their office over being forced to take the more "European" oath.
As to my more substantive point- do you deny that the EU has it own Umwelt? Or think that the resultant progression of that feedback loop leads to something other than a more unitary EU under Brussels? As even ignoring the math of industrial engineering (which does presume a universality due to the nature and design of governments), the architects of the EUR have admitted as much with respect to the EU and the need for a "crisis" to facilitate the implementation of version 3.0...
UR... LOL
(you did see my point on the difference between the politicians in the EU Council and the civil service called EC and this oath of the EC, I hope, snark or no snark)
I do not deny anything. It is all possible. Last time it was getting possible, it was when the European Constitution was proposed. But the French and the Dutch said: no
it all goes back to sovereignty in the european sense, i.e. the Westphalian_sovereignty, not what is understood elsewhere, where it's implications are isolation, among other things
the EU Council is still the boss, and the sole auctor, and the keepers of the treaties are there, ministers sworn to their own polity
I just note what it is, not what could become IF the EU goes down a path as the US did
I see your distinction, and I have no idea why others blame the Commission, but my reasons are purely technical and based on process engineering. There is an argument that "power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely" but I prefer "attacking corruption at its source" (as long as I'm using cliches to oversimplify math). In this case- the EU is the exact opposite as the US. In the US, there is a tendency towards omnibus legislation, where everyone (corrupt officials and big business) gets there *fair share* all at once because the single piece of legislation must pass due to the gridlock the other 300+ days per year. Whereas in the EU, given the myriad (or matix in my original post) ways that Administrative Law can be passed- 90% of it originates in the Commission (where the Devil works out the details) and the Council largely rubber stamps the Commission. If the Commission proposed less (or less encroaching) supra-national regulation, or its members were sworn to look after the best interests of their own countries instead of the Brussels collective, then there would simply be less encroachment for the Council to veto (in the case of olive oil) or rubber stamp (in the case of vacuums and coffee makers, great examples of respecting Westphalian Sovereignty I might add), and the Eurosceptics would have far less to gripe about.
UR, yes, 100% is drafted by the EU Commission. But as I said, auctoritas resides solely in the EU Council. Not even one draft originates from the EU Commission, it's always commissioned by the EU Council to be filled in with those pesky details by the EC... hence the name
The real trick there is that our dear national ministers have their own national civil services that come up with the original ideas, and check on behalf of the ministers if the draft is ok and the minister should approve or not, to be go then through the EU Parliament
of course we have the rot of too much lobbyism. and of course our dear ministers have often other, foreign polities pushing. and of course we have often imbeciles in the EU Council
and I have myself, together with others, lobbyied against idiotic regulations. but I have not once read on ZH someone railing against the EU for real, versus perceived rot
and the reason: well, a lot of those national ministers, sworn to their national offices, like to hide in their ignorance of what all the national civil services push or don't push, and so, reflexively, they do it also with their shared civil service, which currently is doing a bit of a show of "independent thought"
have you ever watched "Yes, Minister", that brilliant British comedy show? in the later sequels they showed, among fantastic humour, that they understood
Fortunately (or unfortunately in this case) television is beyond my scope of experience. But it always seems to come back to nameless (unelected) technocrats/bureaucrats somewhere who often honestly believe that unicorns would shit skittles if only this new expansion of the Law were to be implemented. A large flock sheeple believe that if they can just elect their guy, that things will change and unicorns will also shit skittles. A large contingent of ZHers believe that if voting changed anything, they would outlaw it (but then go on to blame some boogeymen who couldn't really care less about many of the small things that make a big difference in the lives of "real people"), but the question of "how does one change it?" often remains unanswered.
Within the confines of their home bureaucracies, the national civil services have no authority to directly affect changes over the broader EU populace, and the EU Council doesn't have the manpower (or the inclination among Heads of State for the actual work of writing voluminous legislation). So systemically, if the Commission would grow a pair and demonstrate some real "independent thought" then the Progress! of the Statists (whether some nameless desk jockey in a national capital, or an elected Maoist Statist and admitted conspirator like Barroso) could be slowed or arrested.
The reason going after the figureheads and admitted conspirators at the Council is unlikely to succeed is because "change" can only be affected by voters within an individual member State - so unless the EUSSRers get their way and abolish what remains of national sovereignty - then the wider opposition is forced to "sell their soul" and meddle in the domestic democratic processes of a sovereign state other than their own.
Regardless of whether one in opposition to the status quo perceives the "enemy" to be Corporatists, Fabian Socialists, Old School Elite, Neocons, the Jooos, or the "unelected Brussels bureaucracy" - they should spend moar time articulating how to affect real change instead of worrying about who to blame, because despite what certain religious texts say- naming the beast does not give one power over the beast.
Downsides and Upsides of the Euro federal "all for one, one for all" and confederate "one exception (veto) and its a no go situation" Eu zone paradox is now showing, in practical terms, its fall out in the EU geo-political game.
Those who were for the federal route lament the divisions of not creating fiscal cum euro bond discipline to cement the Euro construct.
We have all seen how this lack of cohesion has led us to "American HF tsunami on peripheral spreads" that swamped the EUro crisis until Draghi's "do whatever it takes" smoke and mirrors calmed the speculative rampage.
And then the "Mutti-Draghi foxtrot, half in-half out" madness of printing, but only to HELP the bankstas not the nations, brings us where we are in this approaching QE fall out angst, with the peripheral population down to their sodden knickers.
Those who are for the confederal route can now crow in the wake of Syriza's washout election : the Greek democratic example shows that it takes ONE dissident veto to stop all the "cold war talk"; aka Nuland's toxic ketchup; and balk at taking the Ukraine walk to strut into Donetsk under the Nato punctured umbrella.
Yes, Syriza will take the bull by the horns on the "federal" front and tell Mutti we want haircuts/ Euro bonds or nothing as well as being a "confederate" thorn by vetoing Mutti's pussyfooting of the Nuland great chess game.
Thats called playing the heretic in the interstices of this crony baloney financial cum US-NWO MIC concocted web of electronic money, run by bankstas fronting the global oligarchy.
When the Eu high command PRETENDS not know what its left hand does while it right hand doesn't stop giving to the banks, it needs to be reminded one or the other hand will get chopped off, like that of Cervantes at Lepanto !
It takes a sacrifice of that nature to write an alternative paradigm to shake the decadent ages to its Don Quichotte like marrow.
Play on Syriza, your opponents have the most head up ass posture you could find in oligarchy noodle-Us poodle land. Syriza is now a catalyst...watch the chain reaction it initiates...that is what happened in Sarajevo 1914.
Lets hope Syriza does not take us there but elsewhere. But that a catalyst cannot predict. It facilitates the reaction but the runaway reaction that blows up the vessel is something that other parameters in the cooker determine. Any chemist will confirm you that!
When the Eu high command PRETENDS not know what its left hand does while it right hand doesn't stop giving to the banks, it needs to be reminded one or the other hand will get chopped off, like that of Cervantes at Lepanto !
+++
So, when do Russian military 'advisers' show up to help "stabilize" Greece? The NATO ones did such a great job in Ukraine...
The hypocrisy is getting pretty fucking obvious isn't it?