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In Denmark You Are Now Paid To Take Out A Mortgage

Tyler Durden's picture




 

With NIRP raging in the Eurozone and over €1.5 trillion in European government bonds trading with negative yields, many were wondering when any of this perverted bond generosity will spill over to other debtors, not just Europe's insolvent governments (who can only print negative interest debt because of the ECB's backstop that it will buy any piece of garbage for sale in the doomed monetary union). In fact just earlier today we, rhetorically, asked a logical - in as much as nothing is logical in the new normal - question: 

Little did we know that just minutes after our tweet, we would learn that at least one place is already paying homeowners to take out a mortgage. That's right - the negative rate mortgage is now a reality.

Thanks of Mario Draghi's generosity with "other generations' slavery", and following 3 consecutive rate cuts by the Danish Central Bank, a local bank - Nordea Credit - is now offering a mortgage with a negative interest rate! This means, according to DR.dk, that Nordea have had to pay instead of charging interest to to a handful of customers, says housing economist at Nordea Kredit, Lise Nytoft Bergmann for Finance.

From DR, google-translated:

The interest rate has balanced around 0 in a level between minus 0.03 percent plus 0.03 percent. Most have paid a modest positive interest rate, but there are so few who have had a negative rate. It is quite an unusual situation, says Lise Nytoft Bergmann.

 

It is residential customers who have chosen to stick with F1-loan that now benefit from the negative interest rate. F1 loan form has otherwise been strong returns in recent years in favor of fixed interest loan.

 

Although interest rates are negative, it is not something that can be felt by customers as contributions and other costs continue to be paid. In turn, interest will be deducted from the contribution.

 

Precisely because it is an unusual situation, Nordea Kredit's IT systems are not geared to the situation when the computers are only used to collect interest.

 

Lise Nytoft Bergmann says that there is no cause for concern, and that the new situation can be handled, "but sometimes we have to use duct tape and paste."

This is just the beginning: according the Danish media outlet, as a result of variable-refinancing, as recently as a week from now "a greater share of customers could have a negative rate."

Mortgage Denmark is one of the mortgage banks, where F1 rate also is close to zero, and here you are very excited about the upcoming negotiations, says Christian Hilligsøe Heinig, chief economist of the Mortgage Denmark.

 

We have an auction just around the corner and it is very exciting to see how interest rates are going. We can go and get negative interest rates, says Christian Hilligsøe Heinig to JP Financial.

And just like that, first in Denmark, and soon everywhere else in Europe, a situation has now emerged where savers who pay the bank to hold their cash courtesy of negative deposit rates, are directly funding the negative interest rate paid to those who wish to take out debt. In fact, the more debt the greater the saver-subsidized windfall.

That all this will end in blood and a lot of tears is clear to anyone but the most tenured economists, however in the meantime, we can't wait to take advantage of the humorous opportunities that Europe (and soon Japan and the US) will provide in the coming months, as spending profligacy will be directly subsidized and funded by the insolvent monetary system, while responsible behavior and well-paid labor will be punished, first with negative rates and soon thereafter: with threats, both theoretical and practical, of bodily harm.

h/t @AndreasBay

 

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Fri, 01/30/2015 - 16:47 | 5726917 ejmoosa
ejmoosa's picture

You really can't make this stuff up.

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 16:51 | 5726934 SickDollar
SickDollar's picture

Give me some of that  F1-loan product Bitchez

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 16:51 | 5726949 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

SKOL!!!!

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 16:59 | 5726978 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

So... instead of exploding ARMs, we've reached the land of imploding ARMs.

Seems there's no limit to those "Giant sucking sounds" as Ross Perot posited all those years ago.

All have the same cause though.

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 17:06 | 5727010 kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

If I can get that in "interest only"  I'm in;)

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 17:24 | 5727064 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

 

 

We simply cannot have a Danish thread on ZH without Nicoline Toft.

Look at that ass!

Ok. 

What were we talking about? 

Negative interest rates. 

Right.



Fri, 01/30/2015 - 17:32 | 5727143 modric
modric's picture

When i see women like that it makes me realise how much i have under achieved. A very bitter/sweet moment.

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 17:42 | 5727158 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

 

 

MOAR Friday Night Music With A European Beat

Right click, open in new tab, and keep surfing ZH.

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 17:54 | 5727227 e_goldstein
e_goldstein's picture

If these girls are candidates for the finishing school let me know how to donate to their education.

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 18:14 | 5727279 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

I will take out a mortgage (to build my own house, as in quality, not some shit box chicken coop) when the Paul Krugman Mortgage & Loan Company pays me 10% to borrow money on a non-recourse mortgage note.

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 18:18 | 5727284 Haus-Targaryen
Haus-Targaryen's picture

God I wish I had an extra 50-60k in the bank to grab a vaca house on the Danish West-Coast.  Rent that shit out and its money without end every Summer for the rest of my life. 

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 18:46 | 5727343 SoilMyselfRotten
SoilMyselfRotten's picture

These Bankers are just the salt of the Earth, wonderful people who just want this to be a more caring place to live

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 18:50 | 5727350 kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

You say god will turn them into salt;) ?

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 20:14 | 5727561 Crawdaddy
Crawdaddy's picture

Only if they look back. And they will never look back.

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 22:29 | 5727864 Richard Chesler
Richard Chesler's picture

Is it at all possible for every part of the world to attain—one day in a plausibly not too remote future—the standard of living of say Denmark (and perhaps also similar political and cultural institutions)?

http://www2.binghamton.edu/fbc/archive/iwcornell.pdf

 

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 22:34 | 5727870 Pinto Currency
Pinto Currency's picture

 

How can an economy function properly with negative time value of money. - it can't.

There is a risk premium on top of this negative mortgage yield and, in reality, consumer goods inflation is positive - meaning that the central bankers expect people to lend out money for negative net yield.

A sign of economic collapse, however, few recognize it for what it is.

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 22:48 | 5727898 Stuck on Zero
Stuck on Zero's picture

Chase Manhattan Mortgage offered me a 1.5% refi on a 20 year note.  My take is that they just want a loan on their books.  They don't have anyplace else to park their cash.  They also know that when the economy turns sour they will end up owning all the homes and we'll all be renters.

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 23:00 | 5727930 Never One Roach
Never One Roach's picture

This has been going on in the USA for more then a decade; namely, when you hand a zero-down or low-down mortgage [and house] to people who cannot afford it, you [the taxpayers] are essentially subsidizing them. For while they handed buyers $8,000 to buy a house.

 

When this giant housing bubble bursts, as it inevitably will,  it wont be purty.

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 23:56 | 5728058 stocktivity
stocktivity's picture

Can I get NIRP on a new car?   Will they pay me a check each month to drive it?

Sat, 01/31/2015 - 08:37 | 5728458 Romney Wordsworth
Romney Wordsworth's picture

Maybe 'Sharia Laws' on usury aren't such a bad idea after all when you consider the weird shit that the moneylenders inevitable end up slopping on your plate.

Sat, 01/31/2015 - 15:58 | 5729492 7.62x54r
7.62x54r's picture

"I would like a 100 year loan on this apartment complex, with no down payment, and payments exactly equal to the negative interest rate. I'd like one hundred of these loans, as I intend to buy this entire town. And you can see, from this business plan, that I will be more than able to meet all of my future payment obligations, without even touching the property income stream. I have $0.25 and this skate key as current assets."

Sat, 01/31/2015 - 01:36 | 5728246 cheech_wizard
cheech_wizard's picture

That's the damn problem with the Internet. Not everything that has been written about sustainability is on-line. I recall reading a study when I was much younger that in order to achieve such a goal, society would most closely resemble the agrarian culture of North Korea in the 1930's. I'll keep digging, it is out there somewhere.

 

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 18:33 | 5727317 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

They can and will try this in the US next, Folks!  They need to keep the markets inflated at all costs.  Even if it means giving  free money to the plebs.

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 22:00 | 5727805 Steaming_Wookie_Doo
Steaming_Wookie_Doo's picture

Wow, think of the housing boom /s

But seriously, the avg person would be able to pay off their mortgage (at current pmt size) in about 12 yrs without having to fight thru all those interest deductions. "I for one, welcome our new Ant overlords."

 

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 22:50 | 5727903 daveO
daveO's picture

'At current payment size' is the operative phrase. Debt slavery works because the debt slaves always opt for the the lowest payment available, so they can then go buy other stuff on credit. 

Sat, 01/31/2015 - 01:03 | 5728208 willwork4food
willwork4food's picture

Perhaps Im not the sharpest tool in the shed, but this makes no sense. How can a bank opperate and make profit on NIRs????

anyone?

Sat, 01/31/2015 - 03:11 | 5728315 zhandax
zhandax's picture

Before now I could make this sound simple.  Now, I am not so sure.

As long as you collect more interest on your loans than you pay for your funds, you make money.  No one would argue that if you pay 8% for money and loan it out at 8.5%, you are, before any expense considerations, making money.

Here is the part I have never had to explain before.  When you cross from positive to negative rates, you substitute the word collect for the word pay for your funding and vice vera for your loans.  IOW, as long as you collect from your depositors more than you pay your borrowers, you make money.  Theoretically.  On a really gross basis.  This sounds like a good time for that second drink.

Sat, 01/31/2015 - 03:26 | 5728325 mkkby
mkkby's picture

Just think thru how stupid this is.  With neg interest rate loans, nobody would be able to buy anything because the prices would soon be bid to infinity.  Article must be a fraud.

Sat, 01/31/2015 - 04:57 | 5728365 o2sd
o2sd's picture

I don't think everyone gets the negative rate. The article states that mortgage rates are between -0.03% to 0.03%. My suspicion would be that the negative rates are offered to first time buyers to get them into the debt market on a variable rate, which the bank is sure will go back into positive territory in future when growth returns, Europe recovers and the sound of flutes fill the land.

I think the possibility that the rate will rise in the future would prevent excessive risk taking on the size of the loan. If it was me however, I would say "Fuck it" and borrow 20 million dollars. Even if they bankrupt you at some point in the future, you got to live like a boss before then.

 

Sat, 01/31/2015 - 05:16 | 5728372 zhandax
zhandax's picture

No shit.  "when growth returns, Europe recovers"  The house will be paid off by then.

Sat, 01/31/2015 - 10:00 | 5728541 847328_3527
847328_3527's picture

Dave0 makes a great point. I went by a few model homes the other day and only one salesperson discussed the actual prices of the houses. The others kep talking about "What can you afford to pay monthly." Sales techniques like these are used buying a used car or a dress on lay-away at KMart since they know the buyer will be shocked if they told them the actual overpriced cost of the wooden box some call "a house" and realize there is no frigg'n way they can afford it in the long run.

Sat, 01/31/2015 - 10:34 | 5728570 swmnguy
swmnguy's picture

The "How much can you afford to pay monthly" story is the only way these "Title Loans" and other loan-sharking practices continue.  If you looked at the actual terms of the loans (and understood them) you'd never take them because there's almost no way that anyone who would consider them could succesfully pay them off.

The point is, of course, not to sell the item in question be it a house, a car, or what-have-you.  The point is to sell a loan.  The item in question becomes the McGuffin, like the falcon statuette in The Maltese Falcon, or the briiefcase in Pulp Fiction.  It's irrelevant beyond the way it advances the action in the real story.  So then you look closely at the loan they're trying to sell.  Why would they give it away?  Because they know they can re-sell it to somebody else at a profit, or they know you can't really afford it so they'll be able to collect something, repossess the item in question and re-sell it a number of times, or something similar.  There's a hook somewhere, because obviously you can't run a business on those terms.

The flip side to all of this is that if you are in the market to buy a house or a car, and you can get a loan at or below the real rate of inflation, you're best off to take that loan, and then make extra payments of principal.  That way your monthly payment is where you want it, you can pay less interest than the lender expects, and you have a buffer in case of a rough patch with a mandatory payment you already know you can pay.  In that case, you do well to pay more attention to the monthly payment than the nominal interest rate.  But that's only when you could afford to pay more, not when you're stretching to get a minimum payment you can barely afford because in reality you can't afford to buy at all, shouldn't, and wouldn't if you had any sense.

Sat, 01/31/2015 - 13:45 | 5729039 Midas
Midas's picture

I'm wondering if there isn't some other vig the Danish bank is after.  Possibly a closing fee of a few grand, or selling some other bullshit angle like insurance.  After all, these are banksters we are talking about.

Sat, 01/31/2015 - 16:18 | 5729544 7.62x54r
7.62x54r's picture

The Banksters all get commissions on the loans. The stockholders ( pension and mutual funds ) all lose, of course.

These commissions fueled the housing bubble back in 2008.

Sat, 01/31/2015 - 16:16 | 5729537 7.62x54r
7.62x54r's picture

They can't.

Offering NIRP mortgages is simply a way to avoid even higher NIRP on deposits at the central bank.

Banks cannot make money on paper, they have to borrow money ( for free! ) from the central bank to stay afloat. However, the bankers all make money hand over fist on the mortgage sales commissions, so it all good!

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 17:42 | 5727184 bluskyes
bluskyes's picture

Same here, but then Iam reminded of how thankful I am that my crotch isn't burning from std's

Sat, 01/31/2015 - 02:38 | 5728303 USGrant
USGrant's picture

I am happy to have sold my STD at a good price.

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 17:32 | 5727145 Fidel Sarcastro
Fidel Sarcastro's picture

Hubba-hubba. Mmmmm 

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 17:45 | 5727200 Random_Robert
Random_Robert's picture

She was probably the first one to score one of these "we'll pay you to take out a mortgage" contracts...

 

Sat, 01/31/2015 - 03:19 | 5728321 zhandax
zhandax's picture

Something like that got me married once.

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 19:21 | 5727433 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

Spokeswoman for The Danish Anorexia Foundation?

I got toothpicks that got more meat on em than those legs.

She'd be very pretty if someone fed her.

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 20:23 | 5727579 Bangin7GramRocks
Bangin7GramRocks's picture

Nice work! I thought being smoking hot paid better. That cooz looks like she lives with Travis Bickle!

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 21:34 | 5727754 hungrydweller
hungrydweller's picture

carpet doesn't match the drapes

Sat, 01/31/2015 - 03:17 | 5728323 zhandax
zhandax's picture

I am sure you would be happy to decorate her interior.

Sat, 01/31/2015 - 01:02 | 5728206 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

Peak Interest Rates!!!

Sat, 01/31/2015 - 01:24 | 5728236 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

I would like a side of freedom fries with that shake.

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 17:26 | 5727117 Anasteus
Anasteus's picture

That's unbelievable!.. Das Uberfarce

Sat, 01/31/2015 - 16:20 | 5729558 7.62x54r
7.62x54r's picture

Real life is beating The Onion for absurdity.

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 17:05 | 5727011 McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

From the ZH twitter feed:

"When you do an equity line of credit on a negative rate mortgage does the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man appear?"

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 17:09 | 5727023 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

Why can't we cross the streams?

Because that would be bad.

I'm kinda fuzzy on this whole good bad thing. 

 

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 17:10 | 5727040 new game
new game's picture

P + (-I)= p-I= desparation for growth,ha...

its only rock and roll, but i like it!

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 17:16 | 5727063 max2205
max2205's picture

You'll understand when your house goes down 20% a year

 

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 17:33 | 5727148 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

 

 

Yep.

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 18:49 | 5727353 Greenskeeper_Carl
Greenskeeper_Carl's picture

place your bets, gentlemen. can you buy a house with zero down and dump it off on a greater fool before this all goes belly up?

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 19:59 | 5727518 kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

Thanks Carl.

 Good to see someone else understands this scam for what it is.

Sat, 01/31/2015 - 00:03 | 5728074 Greenskeeper_Carl
Greenskeeper_Carl's picture

its definetly quite a scam. many people will do exactly what i sarcastically suggested. I have no sympathy for people flipping houses and getting caught with your pants down, but unfortunately a lot of the bag holders will just be people who bought a house because they needed a place to live

Sat, 01/31/2015 - 00:37 | 5728160 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Debt deflation, whether via de jure default (non-payment/partial payment), currency debasement (de facto partial default), or jubilee, hitches.

You can't juice a rock.

Sat, 01/31/2015 - 01:11 | 5728220 p00k1e
p00k1e's picture

Say there is a massive deflation.

The $270,000 mortgage turns into $8,000.  The mortgagor gives the keys back to the bank and now owes windfall tax on $262K.  LOL  Servitude. 

Someone will pay those government pensions. 

Sat, 01/31/2015 - 16:36 | 5729600 7.62x54r
7.62x54r's picture

Why dump the home? Or multiple homes?

You have a NIRP mortgage. Principle is only relevent, in that you get paid even more if the principle is higher!

Bargain like Gomez Addams when you buy the properties. Buy ALL the properties. Become Europe's slum lord on the ECBs' dime.

Sat, 01/31/2015 - 16:37 | 5729606 7.62x54r
7.62x54r's picture

Nah. Have a family trust buy the homes. The trust pays tax on the mortgage revenue and the properties' rental streams. You only pay tax on money you withdraw to spend ... and you don't pay a dime for that if you are a resident of a tax haven country.

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 17:19 | 5727082 NoVa
NoVa's picture

Classic

 

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 18:51 | 5727358 ElvisDog
ElvisDog's picture

I would like to take out a $1 trillion mortgage please.......

Sat, 01/31/2015 - 16:39 | 5729613 7.62x54r
7.62x54r's picture

Buy Europe, and then pocket the after tax revenue. Don't worry about the loans, they just make more money for you.

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 17:05 | 5726996 holgerdanske
holgerdanske's picture

skaal!

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 17:05 | 5727013 maskone909
maskone909's picture

paid to take out a mortgage?  boy that sounds like a sound idea!  lets see how long this will last.  they pulled the pin out of the grenade, and threw the pin instead of the grenade!

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 17:08 | 5727027 kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

Yes they did.

The banks are dead men walking.  This will be fun to watch, unless you're a banker.

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 17:13 | 5727047 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

nah the banks will be fine

it's everyone else we have to worry about

Mon, 02/02/2015 - 07:56 | 5734178 EddieLomax
EddieLomax's picture

Actually these negative interest rates will work, just as soon as rents go negative too.

Imagine the utopia of the future, people will then get paid for shopping, they go to work though to get rid of the money.  Crime will still be a problem, with criminal gangs now often breaking into people's houses and leaving bundles of money, the horror!

Does anyone else see the death of money today?  (Although I feel I am preaching to the choir here!).

 

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 16:56 | 5726966 insanelysane
insanelysane's picture

Everything is possible but in what twisted world would you pay people to borrow???  Wouldn't it be cheaper to just buy everyone a house???  You just transfer the digits from one account to another and there wouldn't be any interest amount to transfer.

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 17:33 | 5727150 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

Well, you still have to qualify to tote the note but it should make it considerably easier.

In the world of centally planned and managed economies you get this crazy stuff.

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 23:57 | 5728060 dsty
dsty's picture

spell checker miss marple

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 18:53 | 5727361 The9thDoctor
The9thDoctor's picture

Even if mortgage rates were to go negative in the United States, we would still have millions of 30-somethings still living at mom's house.

With student loan debt and $10 an hour jobs, millenials still wouldn't be able to afford the monthly payments on these $250,000+ houses.

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 20:24 | 5727586 Crawdaddy
Crawdaddy's picture

Old world truism: inflation harms creditors and benefits borrows. Deflation harms borrowors and benefits creditors.

New world world meme: banksters own physical assests and we own a multi-hypothecative claim on phys.

Will the true owner please stand up.

"Um Mr Smith, it says here your stocks are owned by Cede & Co and your house is owned by Mers. Are you either of those guys?"

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 22:54 | 5727909 daveO
daveO's picture

Points! The banks book points up front, then pawn the loan off onto a GSE who stiffs the taxpayer. We've seen this show already.

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 17:05 | 5727006 NoVa
NoVa's picture

Uff Da

negative rate reduces principal owed, making shelter more affordable.

However, only makes sense if the home price changes are less than the negative i rate.  If i rate is <0.50%> but home price declines 2%, then worse off - BITCHEZ

 

 

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 19:26 | 5727443 achilles5008
achilles5008's picture

Would you now be taxed on interest income?

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 20:30 | 5727600 Crawdaddy
Crawdaddy's picture

another short sales tax surprise for the outsiders

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 17:27 | 5727120 irishlink
irishlink's picture

We got to send some of these Irish banking folks over there to get some education ???? they need to get with the program pronto.,

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 16:59 | 5726975 e_goldstein
e_goldstein's picture

I think my brain imploded a little.

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 17:01 | 5726986 Haole
Haole's picture

Apparently, they can.

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 17:06 | 5727017 venturen
venturen's picture

"money for nothing and chicks for free"

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 17:37 | 5727164 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

They pay you each month? LMAO.

Sat, 01/31/2015 - 01:09 | 5728191 Radical Marijuana
Radical Marijuana's picture

ejmoosa, while it is difficult to make the details of this up, the mechanisms driving LOL financial absurdities are simply the inherent contradictions due to having FUNDAMENTALLY FRAUDULENT FINANCIAL ACCOUNTING SYSTEMS. The basic problem with systems of ENFORCED FRAUDS is that the ability of governments to use legalized violence to back up legalized lies, which benefit the big banks and their buddies, while screwing everyone else, suffer from the problem that backing up lies with violence can never makes those lies stop being false. Therefore, a political economy based on ENFORCED FRAUDS must drive society as a whole to become increasingly INSANE. The inherent pyramid structure of debt slavery automatically drives that debt slavery system to generate debt insanities: THE NUMBERS MUST GO NUTS!

The banksters, and their buddies, like their intellectual mercenaries known as economists, who are able to solve  intellectual puzzles, in ways which deliberately ignore that the SOURCE of the public "money" supply is that it is made out of nothing, as debts, by privately controlled banks, have built up an elaborate superstructure of bullshit surrounding the basic social facts that the political economy is based on ENFORCED FRAUDS. There are elaborate rules which surround who can make "money" out of nothing, and how much of that "money" they can make out of nothing. There are complicated regulations which attempt to balance the rates at which that "money" can disappear back to nothing, compared to the rate at which that "money" can be made out of nothing. 

THAT EVERYTHING IS BASED ON LEGALIZED COUNTERFEITING IS DELIBERATELY IGNORED AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE.

The established systems exist because of the ways that the methods of organized crime were successfully applied to the political processes, so that governments gave away the power to make "money" out of nothing to privately controlled banks, and then forced everyone else, including even those governments, to jump through the required hoops to be able to "borrow" that "money" made out out nothing, while agreeing to pay that "loan" back with interest, which was ALWAYS AN INSANE ARRANGEMENT, that only existed because it is possible to become socially successful by backing up lies with violence, in which context all of the most socially successful people become the best available professional liars and immaculate hypocrites, who are able to operate INSIDE ENFORCED FRAUDS, while being able to deliberately ignore that they are doing that, because they can spout bullshit about what they are really doing very well, since, to paraphrase Mark Twain, the best bullshitters tend to believe their own bullshit.

In order to actually understand the situation, one has to cut through that bullshit, to perceive that money is measurement backed by murder. There are actually combined money/murder systems, which operate through the maximum possible frauds/deceits. The established systems of ENFORCED FRAUDS have a structure which automatically became more insane at an exponentially accelerating rate ... More and more people are beginning to notice that, due to it becoming more and more blatantly obvious.

That there a some people whose mortgage contracts are generating the LOL absurdity of "negative interest rates" is another little wrinkle in the overall system of ENFORCED FRAUDS. It seems superficially amusing when laws and contracts interact to produce final results which become unprecedented manifestations of absurdity (although, it is disturbing to recognize that is just another tiny step towards some serious series of psychotic breakdowns of an overall criminally insane society.)

Another little amusing example of a similar phenomenon is this story:

http://www.thecannabist.co/2015/01/27/colorado-pot-tax-refund/28677/

Colorado tax law quirk puts pot refund in spotlight

 

" ... Colorado’s marijuana experiment was designed to raise revenue for the state and its schools, but a state law may put some of the tax money directly into residents’ pockets, causing quite a headache for lawmakers. The state constitution limits how much tax money the state can take in before it has to give some back. That means Coloradans may each get their own cut of the $50 million in recreational pot taxes collected in the first year of legal weed. It’s a situation so bizarre that it’s gotten Republicans and Democrats, for once, to agree on a tax issue. ..."

In order to understand the BASIC MECHANISMS behind stuff whose details one would be hard-pressed to make up, one has to recognize that the ONLY connection between human laws and natural laws is the ability to back up lies with violence. However, that NEVER stops those lies from still being false, no matter now much violence is used to back those lies up. Both marijuana laws and monetary laws are ENFORCED FRAUDS, or systems of Huge Lies, backed by Lots of Violence. While marijuana laws are evil, monetary laws are many orders of magnitude more evil. The psychotic breakdown of pot prohibition, from a sublime point of view, is relatively amusing, and even more so is the psychotic breakdown of fundamentally fraudulent financial systems. (However, of course, for those INSIDE of those processes, it may not seem so funny.)

REAL POLITICS OPERATES

INTEGRATED SYSTEMS OF

ORGANIZED CRIME WITH

CONTROLLED OPPOSITION.

The biggest gangsters are the banksters, who have been able to persistently apply the methods of organized crime to the political processes, in order to make governments become the biggest form of organized crime, that serve the interests of those banksters. Meanwhile, the vast majority of people were brainwashed to believe in bullshit about that. Since human beings and human civilizations necessarily operate as entropic pumps of energy flow, that has been developed in ways which are deliberately misunderstood in the most backwards and absurd ways possible.

Generally speaking, we have barely seen anything yet regarding the ways that a criminally insane civilization controlled by enforced frauds is going to drive itself through a series of psychotic breakdowns. We are rushing towards times of PEAK INSANITIES. But nevertheless, time and again, from a sublime point of view, it is amusing to observe how people continue to believe in bullshit, which makes it impossible for them to understand the nature of the inherent contradictions in the structure of debt slavery systems, generating numbers which become debt insanities, which spiral out of control, such as through ZIRP and NIRP, etc. ...

There is almost nobody who is socially significant that is not some kind of professional liar and immaculate hypocrite, who tends to believe in their own bullshit social stories. The "new normal" is merely the extension of the "old normal" at its same old exponentially accelerating rate. We are stuck on the runaway train of systems of legalized lies, backed by legalized violence, going through a train wreck, generating bigger and bigger contradictions, due to the basic problem that backing up lies with violence never make those lies stop being false, and therefore, the society controlled by those lies constantly becoming more and more criminally insane, at an exponentially accelerating rate, driven by its MECHANISMS OF ENFORCING FRAUDS.

Since the dominate natural languages, as well as the dominate philosophy of science, were developed by the biggest bullies to be the dominant social stories, it is practically impossible for enough people to perceive the degree to which they were almost totally brainwashed to believe in bullshit. We are living inside of a Bizarro Mirror World, where everything appears backwards, or a Wonderland Matrix, where everything appears absurd, due to the basic ways that civilization is controlled by backing up lies with violence, while almost nobody is able and willing to go through enough of the paradigms shifts which would be necessary to understand enough "radical truth" about such a situation.

Meanwhile, the only thing we can actually do is wait and watch, as the banksters drive their MAD Money As Debt systems, backed by MAD Mutual Assured Destruction systems, through MAD psychotic breakdowns. While various tiny facets of those developments, such as the story above featured on Zero Hedge, or the one that I linked above, are amusing absurdities (which provide some comedy relief), the overall realities are that the runaway systems of debt insanities are going to provoke death insanities in the foreseeable future.

Since the debt controls are backed by the death controls, as the debt slavery systems drive their numbers to become debt insanities (as the "old normal" manifests as the "new normal") indeed one can not make this stuff up, because it is one more level of flabbergasting fraud after another, each over-topping the previous in unprecedented ways. There now exists a globalized system of electronic monkey money frauds, backed by the threat of force of apes with atomic bombs. That EXISTS in ways whereby one could not make that stuff up ... To paraphrase Mark Twain again, truth is stranger than fiction, because fiction has to make sense.

Human civilization based on enforced frauds has become runaway criminal insanities. It ONLY makes sense as the historical result of each short-term increment of being able to back up lies with violence, enabling there to be made and maintained systems of legalized lies, backed by legalized violence, which cover every area from marijuana to money to the military. As that situation develops there are lots of examples of relatively amusing absurdities.  However, at the present time, there is nothing to prevent that overall situation from continuing to get worse faster, as it is driven through its own MAD psychotic breakdowns.

While I wish there was some way to do social psychiatry, to catalyze those transformations, the most intense paradoxical problem continues to be that the most socially successful people were the best professional liars and immaculate hypocrites, who are the least able and willing to go through suffering the kinds of cognitive dissonance it would take for them to comprehend the degree to which they believe in bullshit, while, of course, similar situations cascade fractally down through all the lower levels of the social pyramid systems based on being able to back up lies with violence, which are reaching the limits of being able to continue to do that at an exponentially accelerating rate.

ZIRP and NIRP were examples of fundamentally fraudulent financial accounting systems attempting to keep themselves going. In my view, almost nobody can fully imagine nor completely comprehend the final consequences of civilization being based on backing up lies with violence running into some relatively objective, real limits to being able to continue to do that, at an exponentially accelerating rate, especially since doing that has been pretty well been what was previously possible throughout most of the history of Neolithic Civilizations.

Along the way, there will surely be more and more absurd stories, such as the ones mentioned above. However, personally speaking, my macabre sense of humour is worn out from overuse ... I am not as able to find the absurdities of the "new normal" as amusing as I used to be able to regard them, because I have become more preoccupied with the plausible extrapolations of those trends, continuing to get worse, faster, in the foreseeable future, due to thinking about what the article above described as the central banksters' generosity with "other generations' slavery" ... In my view, the ways that debt slavery has been transferred onto future generations, as perverse generosity with "other generations' slavery," will eventually become the psychotic breakdowns of debt slavery, through debt insanities, to result in provoking death insanities.

There could be no genuinely better resolutions of those problems unless enough people could go through enough of paradigm shift to be able to understand that money is measurement backed by murder. However, at the present time, the "new normal" keeps piling one flabbergasting fraud, as an absurdity, upon another, in ways that are still consistent with the "old normal," in that there manages to still be an exponential growth of enforced frauds. So far, we have not yet seen the "new abnormal," because we have not yet seen significant psychotic breakdowns of the established forms of MADNESS. However, one of the most common themes discussed on Zero Hedge is when and how that might eventually happen ???

 

Sat, 01/31/2015 - 04:13 | 5728344 Clowns on Acid
Clowns on Acid's picture

RAD !

Sun, 02/01/2015 - 02:13 | 5728345 JuliaS
JuliaS's picture

Computers that can't deal with reality or lack thereof? Where have I heard this one before? Oh, in California, of course, where they tried reducing wages of public sector workers only to discover that ancient payroll software they used was designed to only handle salary increases and would not accept negatives!

Sat, 01/31/2015 - 07:47 | 5728417 Svendblaaskaeg
Svendblaaskaeg's picture

Taxi driver: I'll drive you home for 100 kroner

Me: I want moar!

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 16:47 | 5726918 Tsar Pointless
Tsar Pointless's picture

Hmm. Something smells rotten in Denmark.

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 17:10 | 5727038 SheepRevolution
SheepRevolution's picture

Danish household have the biggest household-debts in Europe. Even bigger than Norway.

Sat, 01/31/2015 - 07:22 | 5728424 Svendblaaskaeg
Svendblaaskaeg's picture

Not Me, not my house, no debt - same goes for where I work - everything is payed for, buildings, machines, tools you name it - even our creditors owe us money (kr. 1.854,47 ultimo 2014)

...and ad to that, stagger-stagger, crawl-crawl

Sat, 01/31/2015 - 13:52 | 5729062 Midas
Midas's picture

You sound like a terrorist.  Close you eyes, think of Denmark, and go buy something expensive on credit.  /s

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 20:31 | 5727606 Crawdaddy
Crawdaddy's picture

These cats don't actually read Shakespeare

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 16:47 | 5726924 froze25
froze25's picture

Every thing is normal nothing to see here, every thing is fine.

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 16:48 | 5726926 goldhedge
goldhedge's picture

What about a mortgage on a new Mosque?

 

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 16:57 | 5726974 froze25
froze25's picture

They have been paying people to take out loans for those for years now.

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 17:00 | 5726985 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

The mortgage insurance premiums on a mosque will soon be more obscene than the cartoons of Mohammed...

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 16:47 | 5726928 riot-police
riot-police's picture

Hmm, sounds like they are going to have a housing shortage. And property values are going to sky-rocket. /sarc/

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 16:49 | 5726929 El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture

How can the motherfuckers telling us that we're in a recovery tell us that everything is going well with a straight face?  How?  Negative rates does not fucking compute.

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 16:50 | 5726939 ejmoosa
ejmoosa's picture

The world's economy is so good we have to pay you to buy stuff.

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 16:56 | 5726971 JRobby
JRobby's picture

Big ticket stuff

 

The necessities will be in short supply before this shit show is over.

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 16:49 | 5726931 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

 

 

Will Wilford Brimley be doing reverse-negative-variable-interest-mortgage commercials in Danish?

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 16:49 | 5726938 El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture

I think he's lined up for another diabeetus commercial. 

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 18:24 | 5726942 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

 

 

In your best walrus voice...

"Fellow senior citizens, I understand there are many expenses competing for your monthly pension check, but allow me a moment to explain the benefits of you paying us money, now, to take your house after you die."

 

 

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 16:53 | 5726948 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Oh... fine!

Somebody get Fonzi on the line, stat!

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 16:56 | 5726965 El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture

It has to be somebody trustworthy.  Like Fred Thompson. 

 

(Did I just jump the shark?)

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 17:01 | 5726984 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

"Ayyyyyyyyyyyyy!"

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 17:22 | 5727106 chunga
chunga's picture

Reverse Foreclos-a-mundo!

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 17:47 | 5727203 El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture

That has happened before.

 

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/bank-america-florida-foreclosed-angry-hom...

 

It's an older story, and it's not much in the grand scheme of things, but it does bring a smile to my face.

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 17:57 | 5727238 chunga
chunga's picture

That's awesome!

I've heard a few stories about these reverse-mortgages that end badly...if I remember right they seemed to involve super-inflated "force placed" insurance. 

Robo-signing, etc seems like 10,000 scandals ago.

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 18:00 | 5727247 El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture

They're still doing the robosigning.  Even if it is an actual employee puting their own name on the affidavit, they probably spend no more than a minute or two per foreclosure/lawsuit/etc...  Nothing will change until this breaks. 

Sat, 01/31/2015 - 01:15 | 5728224 Radical Marijuana
Radical Marijuana's picture

Since ALL branches of government, including the courts, have become components of the systems of government for the money, by the money, for the money, the robosigning, and other sorts of short-circuiting of several Centuries of legal precedents, were rubber stamped by the courts as being O.K, after the fact.

 

Sat, 01/31/2015 - 16:48 | 5729634 7.62x54r
7.62x54r's picture

Can I get a NIRP reverse mortgage?

The bank buys a house, pays me to live in it, and then gives my kids the title after I die.

Sat, 01/31/2015 - 22:32 | 5730497 Radical Marijuana
Radical Marijuana's picture

Only if you were able to follow the "advice" of William K. Black, that The Best Way to Rob a Bank is to Own One.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_K._Black

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 17:29 | 5727132 irishlink
irishlink's picture

Why would anyone want to own property in this crazy climate. You are just an agent for the tax man . Paperwork and taxes and GRIEF.

Sat, 01/31/2015 - 08:20 | 5728451 new game
new game's picture

tell you why i own a home. example: home is value of 100k, and i have 100 k cash.

i either rent and get 1-2 percent interest or purchase outright. continue the math.

rent = 1000/month and 2 percent return= 10,000 out of pocket net whcich is equivalent of 10 percent return owning, less maintenance expenses.

assuming you or i are not dumb fucks and the house is decent condition(same with rental), it comes back to the cost of money or return.

i always assume 500/month expenses over the long haul=6.000/ year(set aside). still nets me 4 percent income(flow). and i get to do as i see fit without calling the landlord to plant a garden.

think i'll own, gotta live somewhere and the idea of making you wealthy via a rent check, well just plain and simple, pisses me off...

another reason you cant buy a home is you are such a total debt serf/deadbeat that cant muster up a down payment(even fha with money from mom and dad) and have the spending disease and are stuck in rental/debt serfdom. good luck with - met plenty of wantabee buyers over twenty years of selling r.e.-most had a shiny new f-150 out front when they drove up...

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 16:48 | 5726933 Mike Honcho
Mike Honcho's picture

Application link?

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 16:52 | 5726945 Theta_Burn
Theta_Burn's picture

Yeah... no shit..

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 16:52 | 5726941 Theta_Burn
Theta_Burn's picture

Fuq...

I feel like a chump @ 3.2%

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 16:52 | 5726944 Pumpkin
Pumpkin's picture

There is something in that paperwork you most certainly don't want to sign.

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 16:51 | 5726946 tawdzilla
tawdzilla's picture

Who gets the mortgage interest tax writeoff? the bank?

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 16:56 | 5726962 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

That's rhetorical, right?

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 16:51 | 5726947 drivenZ
drivenZ's picture

Denmark has 5mm people. Let me know when a real country starts doing this.

Sat, 01/31/2015 - 16:48 | 5729640 7.62x54r
7.62x54r's picture

5 millimeters?

They are so tiny!

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 16:51 | 5726950 zipit
zipit's picture

THe idiot originators didn't have a floor rate?

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 16:55 | 5726955 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Funny, since the beginning of ZIRP, I've been bitching for a 0% APR mortgage.

The along comes NIRP, and suddenly, even zero is too damn high.

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 17:18 | 5727088 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

Now I stop coming to ZeroHedge and post only on NegativeHedge

Sat, 01/31/2015 - 01:17 | 5728227 Radical Marijuana
Radical Marijuana's picture

I am searching for a link to the square root of minus 1 Hedge.

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 16:55 | 5726958 Silver Bullet
Silver Bullet's picture

If the rate goes low enough you could just keep refinancing until the principle was gone!

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 17:01 | 5726990 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Why, I think you've got a future in finance.

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 17:10 | 5727037 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

Its not until you foreclose that you are truly in finance.

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 20:11 | 5727556 Clowns on Acid
Clowns on Acid's picture

Why stop there?

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 16:55 | 5726960 kowalli
kowalli's picture

soon - negative salary...

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 16:55 | 5726967 Vincent Vega
Vincent Vega's picture

Fuck a bunch of negative rate on a mortgage...I'm holding out til they pay me to take the house.

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 16:57 | 5726970 noob
noob's picture

“Rates, to god-damned hell with rates! We have no rates. In fact, we don’t need rates. I don’t have to show you any stinking rates, you god-damned cabron and ching’ tu madre!”

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 17:00 | 5726981 malek
malek's picture

Ahem, it's not a real negative rate mortgage if it's not fixed rate...

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 17:05 | 5726997 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Shhhhhh!

Besides, you don't know that for sure, as there's no limit to the wonders of Bizarro World.

Remember, the Star Trek economy runs on credits.

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 17:08 | 5727009 Theta_Burn
Theta_Burn's picture

Just left the bank here in Jersey

Pitching a 100K 2.7 heloc + prime rate currently @ -.57...

If this keeps up, in 16mths I have arb potential

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 17:06 | 5726999 Victory_Garden
Victory_Garden's picture

There's something wrong in Denmark alrightie oh there is.:

http://www.activistpost.com/2015/01/isis-mercenary-admits-getting-funds....

 

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 17:19 | 5727089 maneco
maneco's picture

...in the Kingdom of Denmark

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 17:06 | 5727005 czarangelus
czarangelus's picture

What's funny is even that wouldn't be anywhere near enough for a working class slob like me to afford a house. Maybe if the government put down $500,000 on a $750,000 house I might be able to squeak out a loan for the rest... oh wait, $750,000 only gets you a half-condemned fixer upper in the Bay Area, and on zero land.

Eat the shit directly out of my ass, government and banks.

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 17:21 | 5727098 malek
malek's picture

It's bad in the Bay Area, but not that bad, for the whole area (no, I do not mean Richmond.)

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 17:35 | 5727156 bluskyes
bluskyes's picture

Dude! What are you talking about? The mortgage pays itself off. borrow a million at -1%, and you get a cheque for 10k each year. No need to pay down the principal at those rates.

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 17:40 | 5727175 czarangelus
czarangelus's picture

...haha shit. And here I was thinking that I'd be obligated to pay towards the principal. But the bigger the principal, the more they pay you for having it!

Geeze, no wonder I have such a crappy job. I'm just not smart enough to play in the majors.

Sat, 01/31/2015 - 16:51 | 5729647 7.62x54r
7.62x54r's picture

Hire Gomez Addams to negotiate a price on that home. You get even more money if the price is higher.

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 23:27 | 5727979 daveO
daveO's picture

Try typing -1% into this!

http://www.myhomeloantools.com/mortgage-amortization-calculator-1.php#.V...

-1% = $157,000 over 30 years. Nearly 16% deflation over 30 years(.5% per year). Unfortunately, they still expect monthly payments of over $1500 ($18000 per year). 

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 17:05 | 5727014 you enjoy myself
you enjoy myself's picture

serious question: do you have to have good credit, or any down payment? 

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 17:52 | 5727218 smacker
smacker's picture

You need a 10% down payemnt to get one of these new fangled mortgages.

The good news - yes, you've guessed it - the bank will lend you that 10% deposit and pay you 0.5% interest for borrowing it.

/s

Sat, 01/31/2015 - 01:46 | 5728257 Radical Marijuana
Radical Marijuana's picture

Sacrasm off: the ways that the central banks originally got started is that after they were enacted, to be able to make money out of nothing, one of the first things they did was create the required money out of nothing to enable those who owned shares in those central banks to be able to afford to pay for those shares.

See the discussion of history the Bank of England in Bill Still's

The Money Masters

https://www.youtube.com/watch?x-yt-ts=1422579428&x-yt-cl=85114404&v=TwqU...

P.S.

I had to find a new link to that, since a previous link to that has been broken, as have been several others to those collected in the Zero Hedge article on

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-10-14/top-15-economic-truth-documenta...

The Top 15 Economic 'Truth' Documentaries

Anyway, my point, Smacker, is that what you described, with sarcasm, was actually what the banksters did, without sarcasm, to originally set up the central banking systems. They corrupted governments to enable them to legally make the public "money" supply out of nothing, and then the used their power to do that to pay for their own shares in those central banks.

Therefore, the amusing absurdity that you described, Smacker, would merely be a sort of more democratized distribution of the ways that the central banks originally created and financed themselves, in self-fulfilling loops of fraud. After legalizing themselves to be able to counterfeit, they then used that ability to buy the shares in the entity which could counterfeit.

The original central banks FIRST were allowed to make the public money supply out of nothing, and THEN, those who controlled those central banks used some of that money made out of nothing to pay for themselves owning those central banks ... and they have been collecting dividends on that ever since!

The banksters created a loop whereby they could create money out nothing in order to pay for being able to continue to control being able to make money out of nothing. It boggles the imagination to attempt to comprehend the magnitude of those ENFORCED FRAUDS!

When one attempts to state that "investment opportunity," by applying that to the lives of ordinary people, it sounds utterly absurd and quite sarcastic to make such suggestions. However, the banksters were able to actually achieve that sort of situation for themselves, and continue to benefit from having done that!

Sat, 01/31/2015 - 04:28 | 5728354 smacker
smacker's picture

Thanks muchly Rad Mar for that v/interesting comment and vid links. I'm gonna take a look at some of the vids which I missed ...

One wonders how any financial/monetary system can survive, let alone be successful on behalf of the people and the nation's economy, when it's built upon fraudulent foundations and is stuffed full of criminals who are attracted to financial fraud: politicians and banksters.

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 17:11 | 5727045 franzpick
franzpick's picture

My screens now say Monday-Tuesday will be the new Black Friday: DJI 16,800, SPX 1960, down 2%, or worse, to the 1st lower low on the new bear market chart:

http://bigcharts.marketwatch.com/quickchart/quickchart.asp?symb=spx&insttype=&freq=1&show=&time=7

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!