Greece Slams EU Bailout-ers: "We Don't Want The $7 Billion, We Want To Rethink The Whole Program"

Tyler Durden's picture

UPDATE: "CONSTRUCTIVE TALKS" are over:

  • *GREECE'S VAROUFAKIS SAYS WILL NOT ASK FOR BAILOUT EXTENSION
  • *VAROUFAKIS SAYS WILL NOT ACCEPT SELF-PERPETUATING CRISIS
  • *VAROUFAKIS SAYS DISCUSSED EURO AREA, NEW DEAL FOR GREECE
  • *DIJSSELBLOEM SAYS UNILATERAL STEPS IS NOT THE WAY FORWARD
  • *DIJSSELBLOEM SAYS GREECE SHOULD CLARIFY ITS POSITION (we think they did!)
  • *GREECE'S VAROUFAKIS SAYS WILL CONVINCE EU PEERS ON NEW DEAL

As Eurogroup chief Jeroen Dijsselbloem (of "template" foot in mouth infamy) heads to Athens for talks today, Bloomberg reports the new Greek Finance Minister Yanis Varoufakis has a clear message for his European overlords of the past: “We don’t want the 7 billion euros...We want to sit down and rethink the whole program." While this exposes the nation's banking system to further runs, yesterday's revelation that Russia could step in with financing should they need it, leaves Dijsselbloem and Shulz with less and less leverage even as Spain's chief economic advisor warns, if Greece doesn't play along, "there will be problems on all fronts."

“Will Greece antagonize the European union? If they don’t there won’t be any problems,” Alvaro Nadal, chief economic adviser to the Spanish prime minister, said in a radio interview in Madrid on Friday. “If they do, there will be, on all fronts.”

And, as Bloomberg reports, that is what Greece's new government is doing (as they promised the people),

Finance Minister Yanis Varoufakis said he’s not interested in persuading Greece’s official creditors to release the final 7 billion euros ($8 billion) of bailout funds as Eurogroup Chief Jeroen Dijsselbloem headed to Athens for talks on Friday.

 

Greece wants to agree a new plan shifting from spending cuts to combating corruption and boosting public investment. The proposal hinges on the euro area and the European Central Bank agreeing to write down Greece’s public debt, a suggestion that has been met with skepticism by officials across the rest of Europe.

 

“We don’t want the 7 billion euros,” Varoufakis said in an interview with the New York Times published late on Thursday. “We want to sit down and rethink the whole program.”

 

...

 

“In all honesty, if you sum up all their promises then the Greek budget will very quickly be out of balance and then further debt relief won’t help anyway,” Dijsselbloem said in Amsterdam on the eve of his trip. “We want to keep Greece in the euro zone, in the European Union, but that also requires the Greeks to meet their commitments.”

Things are not going well...

European Parliament Martin Schulz confirmed the divide between Tsipras and the rest of Europe after two hours of talks with the Greek leader in Athens on Thursday.

 

In diplomatic parlance, they say that talks were constructive and honest when they have ended in disagreement,” Schulz said. “Well, I will say that talks were honest and constructive.”

*  *  *

However, it appears things just got a little more tense...

  • GREEK GOVERNMENT OFFICIAL SAYS THAT THE GOVERNMENT DOES NOT WANT THE TROIKA TO GO BACK TO GREECE OR TO INCREASE THE DEBT PROGRAM: RTRS

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GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

Always start the negotiations with everything.

 

Well......cause you might get it.

jefferson32's picture

ZHers seem divided on the issue of Syriza and its socialist ideology. I contend that most of the disagreement about socialism vs. capitalism is actually semantic. You see, "capitalism" is a marxist word. (Classical) liberalism entails capitalism, but capitalism doesn't entail liberalism (e.g. if you agree Singapore is "capitalist"). In a free society, you're perfectly able to join/establish a kibbutz or whatever marxist utopia you desire. As you are free to be a randian hero/producer. So the problem isn't with socialism/marxism versus capitalism, it's with coercion versus non-aggression, i.e. forced collectivism versus individual liberty. Can everyone agree on that?

Romney Wordsworth's picture
Romney Wordsworth (not verified) jefferson32 Jan 30, 2015 9:04 AM

This is THE FIGHT CLUB, not the AGREE CLUB.

y3maxx's picture

If they hung Eurogroup chief Jeroen Dijsselbloem from the nearest lamp post, and sent back his head to Brussels on a plate, would that be considered a message?

Ghordius's picture

I think the Netherlands would consider it a message. after all, it's one of their ministers

disabledvet's picture

So Greece has even less to worry about!

 

 

REPUDIATE THE DEBT!

 

ALL OF IT!

ilion's picture

Now is the time to say: "Fuck the EU".

I kinda start to like these little Greeks.

MillionDollarBonus_'s picture

The Greek stance is nothing short of heroic. It's not their fault that corporations and governments helped them borrow such an insane amount of money. In my opinion the new Greek government should take a hard line with the EU. Firstly, Greece should settle for no less than a total debt write-off - anything else is simply unfair and outright fascistic. Secondly, Greece should demand compensation for the damage that other countries such as Germany, have caused to their country. This should be in the form of a grant to help rebuild Greece and get their economy back on its feet.  Finally, the rich simply need to pay their fair share - I'm tired of hearing how rich people are the ‘most productive’ and ‘provide jobs and capital investment’. BULLSHIT - All I see rich people doing is playing gold and having fancy corporate meetings, while everyone else struggles to make end's meat. Most of these bastards inherited their wealth anyway, or got lucky. 

BaBaBouy's picture

Costco Has A FULL Return Policy. Learn From It...
EU Can take Their UNWANTED Shit Back Also...

The Juggernaut's picture

I never thought I would witness a democratically elected leader of a major country (in terms of disruption) be assassinated or removed from presidency. Whoever is after him will be a tyrant if a revolution fails to happen at the time of change.

 You think the Cronyism Intellegence Agency (CIA) will stand down this Liberty?!

 

@MillionDollarBonus_:  You must be a mole.  The solution to Greece's EU problem of monetary facism is NOT communism.  The solution is a Sound Currency and True Capitalism.  A Libertarian Society.

Canuckistan Al's picture

ah........November 22, 1963 comes to mind.

or did I just miss the /sarc tag?

SofaPapa's picture

This one small step - stop taking new loans - is huge!  If they stick to this and it spreads? 

Unfortunately, the reaction may be very violent on the part of the lenders, and I mean that literally.  When you try to opt out when the mob hits your neighborhood in their racket, the results aren't pretty. :(

cnmcdee's picture

Greece needs to DO THE RIGHT THING - and go Iceland on the EU's ass.

It's time for them to simply default - and then turn right around and start renegotiating reentering the Eurozone with no debt.

Lesson to whoever leaned them money - don't.

balanced's picture

Reason and basic common sense lead to the same conclusion reached by Varoufakis - it makes no sense to impoverish an entire nation so that it can pay fiat back to an organization which is printing trillions (1.5 planned so far) out of this air.

steve2241's picture

Balanced wrote: "Reason and basic common sense lead to the same conclusion reached by Varoufakis - it makes no sense to impoverish an entire nation so that it can pay fiat back to an organization which is printing trillions (1.5 planned so far) out of this air."

Precisely so. Had to log in to upvote this comment.

 

WSMassiv's picture

Bankster, the other white meat.

Max Cynical's picture

Is there any way to determine whom is most exposed to Greek bonds?

HardAssets's picture

'Repudiate the debt' ?

But the banksters had to make the effort to create a 'loan' out of thin air Nothing, so they could collect interest and enslave the population. The serfs have been taught to "always pay 'your 'debts'".

How is this gonna work out for the banksters if people refuse to be 'debt' slaves ?

How will the world keep spinning ? (The money junkie bankers think it revolves around them, you see.)

Anasteus's picture

Once the banks get nationalized the bankers will not suffer from such dilemma anymore.

debtor of last resort's picture

When they send it back on a golden plate, i don't have a problem with it.

Truthseeker2's picture

. . .

 

Putin already courting traditional Greek friends

Lavrov invites Greek FM Kotzias to Moscow

George Bush League's picture

@Truthseeker2   BREAKING NEWS, Greek FM Kotzias private plane collides with a snowplow that was crossing the runway at Athens Airport.  Authorities are at a loss to explain why a snowplow was at the airport in the first place, and attempts to question the snowplow operator were unsuccessful as it appears he committed suicide with a nail gun.

RaceToTheBottom's picture

If the bonds are backed by individual countries, for the use of each individual country, aren't we back to individual countries anyway?  

Just what is the difference?

The whole purpose of a combined Europe is effectively gone, and with that the leverage against war between countries in Europe....

Ghordius's picture

bonds, taxes and armies go together. the very basis of sovereignty. all this talk about the EU being "something like the US or the UK" was always... silly

the EU is about common trade, common trade treaties and common economic space and regulations. a confederation of fully sovereign countries sharing facilities

HardAssets's picture

That's how they sold the EU, that's not what they had in mind. How many times have we heard that broader legal & political powers must be used to insure that independent countries like Greece can't undermine 'the Project'.

They want a United Europe as a path to a New World Order. They also want a North American Union for that same NWO purpose.

Control freaks want to control everything & this has failed throughout history. Maybe this time enough of Humanity will wake up and minimize the damage before these insane psychopaths blow up the world.

angel_of_joy's picture

Why exactly do you guys need a common currency, a common law, and a common policy then ? The old Common Market concept worked very well. You could add free movement for European people and that's it. You DON'T need an European Commissar to establish the right number of sheets in a toilet paper roll, or to check the curvature of your garden cucumber. Bureaucracy killed the Soviet Union, and it's gonna kill you too ! Any time now, you're already out of money...

Haus-Targaryen's picture

No no no no no you are doing it wrong.  

You need to send back his head on a spike.  

"In breaking news today, the Netherlands declared war on Greece after the Arch-Duke of Euro-Rainbow Land's head was sent to the Hague on a spike."  

Russia proposed a summit called "Winter is Coming" while the US proposed an alternative summit -- had something something to do with Dragon Fire and some port in Athens.   

waterwitch's picture

Sounds like the Greeks need to use Dijsselbloem for target practice at the same range where the Nazis wiped out 200 of their fellow countrymen.  That would send a message.

SWRichmond's picture

Interesting how obvious is the "we control you with debt" meme, that is also how they control individuals, municipalities, states, and entire nations.

Eschew the debt, eschew them and their control.

FrankieGoesToHollywood's picture

Debt shackles are strong.  But no match for guns.  With Russia indicating finacial support, those Rubbles could be converted to AK47's in a pinch.

froze25's picture

The debter is always slave to the creditor.

angel_of_joy's picture

...The debter is always slave to the creditor

Only until he decides to stop paying. Same as with any addiction. Breaking the old habits is the hardest part...

Tall Tom's picture

The creditor is also enslaved to the debtor as they are reliant upon timely payment. The converse is likewise.

 

Indebtedness is enslavement both to the debtor and creditor.

 

Germany is a productive nation and their future is absolutely reliant upon Greece's decision. If Greece defaults then the Germans deal with a large portion of the capital loss.

 

Who is enslaved at this point, creditor or the debtor whom will default. The defaulted party has no problem as they are not going to pay and have escaped the contract by declaring a Force Majerue.

 

What will Germany do? Invade? Seize the assets of Greece?

 

There is not one damned thing they can do. Whom has the problem?

 

 

Crazy Canuck's picture

Greece them up and throw them in the russian bear pit

noben's picture

"This is THE FIGHT CLUB, not the AGREE CLUB."

Nah. We've evolved into the Debate Club", where the 'fights' is in the power of ideas & oratory vs the power of fists. Everybody has to grow up sometimes, or be left behind.

walktheline's picture

Thanks for clarifying that Noben. Never thought I see someone say that on ZH, but there do appear to be increasing numbers of gropwn ups posting on here and it's both a treat and an education at times.

Freedom In Your Lifetime's picture

pretty sure even the most reasonable and intelligent person feels the need to throw down occasionally. Talk only gets one so far.

A famous historical quote is coming to mind. Something about black flags and slitting throats or some such glorious barbarism.

Payne's picture

The EU is a Zombie and Greece is the limb threatening to come back to life.

Ghordius's picture

just shortly we defined the EU Council as a Hydra, and the fresh new Greek ministers are one of it's heads

and the new head is bitching with the other ones

Tsar Pointless's picture

I'll give you that.

I contend that there are a multitude of modern-day conservatives who are nothing but died-in-the-wool collectivists. They want everybody to think the same way, be the same way, preferably be the same color, and love the same national symbols. To them, the perfect world would consist of straight white people - dominated, of course, by men.

I am a producer, but I also believe in assisting those who are worse off than I. It's a shame political science/thought/theory is as poorly understood in America as is economic thought & theory.

Apocalicious's picture

Do you feel its a moral imperative for all producers to assist all those worse off? In my experience, I've determined - using my own free will - that I don't think many of those worse off should get any of the fruits of my labor. Some I have no problem assisting, but all the others I am perfectly comfortable merely not further disadvantanging by my personal actions.

 

I believe we should all be free to choose whom we assist or not, based upon our own judgement. I'm tired of the gun at my head saying I have to, have to, have to.

Benjamin123's picture

If you dont help them, either by teaching or charity, they will cut your head off and fairness has nothing to do with it. Make a choice.

shovelhead's picture

I won't be held hostage to threats.

They want my head, let em come and get it.

I got a nice hillbilly howdy waiting for em. You see, I don't live in the city. I don't have to beg or bribe them to behave.

NotApplicable's picture

They don't want (or need) your head when they already have the ability to skim off of your productive output, as your energy fuels them. (yay parasites)

As for the hillbilly welcome bravado... well, if need be they'll drone your ass before you even get a chance to yell, "hold my beer."

Oh, then they'll use the media to paint you and your friends as enemies of the state, thus further empowering them over you, as the firebrands of "the other side" demand that you be made an example of, to serve as a warning to others.

Simply put, the world is run by the mafia, and you're not going to ever battle them and win.

Benjamin123's picture

Its possible to battle them and win. Join any marxist inspired civil war on the bourgeoise side!

Bemused Observer's picture

The trouble is none of us live in a vacuum. Your attitude is the same exact one that TPTB have towards the rest of us. Doubling down on 'foolish' helps no one.

It's not enough to accumulate wealth for yourself. You also have to convince everyone else to let you keep it. Because they CAN and WILL take it from you if things get bad enough for enough people.

All the arguments about 'fairness' won't stop them. Not being seen as a prick however, just might.

overmedicatedundersexed's picture

tsar, one does hold a high opinion of one's self. perhaps justified. but you are brain washed as to what conservatives hold..your description could of come off the local script writer for hollywood.

Tsar Pointless's picture

I can GUARAN-DAMN-TEE you, my understanding of modern-day conservatives is spot-on. I don't have the time or desire to go on at multi-paragraph length, but it's founded on deeply personal experience.

I don't hold a high opinion of myself - just a lower opinion of certain people.

overmedicatedundersexed's picture

tsar:

"I don't hold a high opinion of myself - just a lower opinion of certain people."

well LOL..there you go.