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Greece Slams EU Bailout-ers: "We Don't Want The $7 Billion, We Want To Rethink The Whole Program"
UPDATE: "CONSTRUCTIVE TALKS" are over:
- *GREECE'S VAROUFAKIS SAYS WILL NOT ASK FOR BAILOUT EXTENSION
- *VAROUFAKIS SAYS WILL NOT ACCEPT SELF-PERPETUATING CRISIS
- *VAROUFAKIS SAYS DISCUSSED EURO AREA, NEW DEAL FOR GREECE
- *DIJSSELBLOEM SAYS UNILATERAL STEPS IS NOT THE WAY FORWARD
- *DIJSSELBLOEM SAYS GREECE SHOULD CLARIFY ITS POSITION (we think they did!)
- *GREECE'S VAROUFAKIS SAYS WILL CONVINCE EU PEERS ON NEW DEAL
As Eurogroup chief Jeroen Dijsselbloem (of "template" foot in mouth infamy) heads to Athens for talks today, Bloomberg reports the new Greek Finance Minister Yanis Varoufakis has a clear message for his European overlords of the past: “We don’t want the 7 billion euros...We want to sit down and rethink the whole program." While this exposes the nation's banking system to further runs, yesterday's revelation that Russia could step in with financing should they need it, leaves Dijsselbloem and Shulz with less and less leverage even as Spain's chief economic advisor warns, if Greece doesn't play along, "there will be problems on all fronts."
“Will Greece antagonize the European union? If they don’t there won’t be any problems,” Alvaro Nadal, chief economic adviser to the Spanish prime minister, said in a radio interview in Madrid on Friday. “If they do, there will be, on all fronts.”
And, as Bloomberg reports, that is what Greece's new government is doing (as they promised the people),
Finance Minister Yanis Varoufakis said he’s not interested in persuading Greece’s official creditors to release the final 7 billion euros ($8 billion) of bailout funds as Eurogroup Chief Jeroen Dijsselbloem headed to Athens for talks on Friday.
Greece wants to agree a new plan shifting from spending cuts to combating corruption and boosting public investment. The proposal hinges on the euro area and the European Central Bank agreeing to write down Greece’s public debt, a suggestion that has been met with skepticism by officials across the rest of Europe.
“We don’t want the 7 billion euros,” Varoufakis said in an interview with the New York Times published late on Thursday. “We want to sit down and rethink the whole program.”
...
“In all honesty, if you sum up all their promises then the Greek budget will very quickly be out of balance and then further debt relief won’t help anyway,” Dijsselbloem said in Amsterdam on the eve of his trip. “We want to keep Greece in the euro zone, in the European Union, but that also requires the Greeks to meet their commitments.”
Things are not going well...
European Parliament Martin Schulz confirmed the divide between Tsipras and the rest of Europe after two hours of talks with the Greek leader in Athens on Thursday.
“In diplomatic parlance, they say that talks were constructive and honest when they have ended in disagreement,” Schulz said. “Well, I will say that talks were honest and constructive.”
* * *
However, it appears things just got a little more tense...
- GREEK GOVERNMENT OFFICIAL SAYS THAT THE GOVERNMENT DOES NOT WANT THE TROIKA TO GO BACK TO GREECE OR TO INCREASE THE DEBT PROGRAM: RTRS
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@ekm1
IMHO to think they are unable to get said tech elsewhere is a bit short sighted. Frack jobs are short lived & contaminate the water tables. You can live without oil, not water. Deepwater I might buy as the chemtrails melting the arctic circle facilitates exploration.
Putin is aligning w/China. China is buying massive amounts of real estate...Detroit. China has the US by the short hairs in debt. We've been sold out & are in the process of colonization. China has several banks in the USSA. They're buying up farmland & exporting 1/3 of alfalfa production to China. Smithfield...You said yourself you don't get food from Mexico. Are you sure you're not consuming the gut destroying GMO's that's being forced on the planet by the barrel of a gun? You think that seed bank is for the peeps?
Everything in the US is upside down & backwards re: policy.
Good cop/bad cop. I see a circle closing rapidly.
Remember Heinz said control the oil, you control the country. Control the food you control the people. Food production in CA is going to take a major hit due to weather modification. They're working on the wheat belt now.
Jinping sees Putin as unequal and weak
For an overview of China's resource procurement and security programmes see Dambisa Moyo's "Winner Take All". Land is simply one element of their grand strategy. Western commodity traders complained that China was paying too much for it's acquisitions, i.e they broke the clubs rules by not agreeing to the 'fix'. What few seem to have grasped is that China is not playing the usual penny ante games, but is playing for keeps. China is going for the full house: energy, agricultural land and water, minerals and metals and infrastructure. A number of ZHer's will already be aware of this. Recent posts on here noted that commodity prices are headed south; China will take advantage of this to acquire yet more of these assets andf it will keep and develop them. Having taken our eye off the ball for so long arguing about the damned muzzies, commies/conservatives/socialists etc, the west has been outflanked in pretty much every area that really matters. We may not be in a position to wake up and smell the coffee, 'cos China has bought the whole bang shoot.
Consider this scenario.
Puti chucks a terrible wobbly, gets all impulsive like, unilaterally cuts off south gas permanently, without consultation with the buyer, then again unilaterally draws up an alternate supply project via Turkey, and begins building it ASAP.
The EU see this, takes it in stride, makes some very painful adjustments, whilst Puti uses his reserves to build a Turkish pipeline route thru to Greece then Puti say's, "Look, we've finished constructing this magnificent new pipeline project with our rapidly diminishing reserves, and are now open for business!"
EU, "... what?", glances over, "Oh ... I see ...", looks at Puti and Greece for a moment, "er, ... no thanks. ... You wanted to eliminate some "unreliable countries", but we needed to remove some unreliable suppliers".
Vlad, "... bu ... but! ... why weren't we .. consulted? ... we'll cut NORD!!"
EU, "We expected that, we don't need it anymore either."
Greece, "You .. can't ... you ... you can't do that ...!!"
THE END
Reminds me of the polish apples.
With apples this sketch could work.
Not with energy.
´cept, when EU is so down, that they really don´t need such thing anymore.
So you're saying that if you had a supplier acted in that way, your solution would be to do nothing about securing a more reliable supplier and supply, and just keep taking the manipulative abuse of a thug?
Sorry, but the world doesn't work that way, Europe will surely act to put an end to this nonsense.
This is the biggest market in the world and there are plenty of producers itching to enter that market and sell their wares. The world is awash in energy it's just a matter of where you source it from and the investment decisions you make to change suppliers and develop new production to match. There may be an economic hit, but Europe will be much more interested in stabileetee of supply, than in putting up with the likes of Putin and the economic hits and chaos they have already had to put up with from him and those like him.
Slovakians are already bitching. Those tiny places sort of follow the rules and get shit on.
Greece should just sue GS for the initial lie to the EU and reset from there.
That is the strongest negotiating position they have. It will get them killed but hey....
No, with less than a week in office, Tsipras made Brussels dot their "i's" and cross their "t's". No new sanctions, but we'll play along with the old ones for six months (give/take). That is after the EU folded to immense pressure from Washington and was ready to move forward with new sanctions. (see Deutsche Wirtschafts Nachrichten)
Tsipras needs time to try to bring some stablization to his country. And Yanis Varoufakis needs to avoid construction sites and small aircraft.
Greece, Italy, Spain and Portugal default, Eurò dissappears and debt evaporates.
Iceland, Iceland, Iceland.
Now that's a t-shirt.
If you owe the bank $1000 you call the bank manager 'sir'. If you owe him a $1000000 he calls you 'sir'.
Get Iceland on the phone!
I don't get all this talk about Russian financing. Tsipras made clear in his open letter, and Varoufakis is making clear again now, that they don't want any more loans. They want to get rid of the debt they already have, not to pile even more on top of it! Why should Russian loans (or Chinese loans via Russia, as the case may be) be any more agreeable than Euro loans? Especially considering the extremely favourable terms the Greeks seem to have gotten on their existing Euro loans...
Like the 'favourable terms ' i injected your wife with last night.
Props to Greece for choosing the path of fiscal responsibility, or at least in the international public eye. What a PR win and crafty power play. I can hear the tinkle of GS Jew bankers chagrin from here.
Now if they can somehow become a net exporter of goods and services - olive oil, olive-skinned hotties for some sexy fun - whatever the case may be, better come up with something viable
Unconditional bailouts for all.
We want equality with the banksters.
Go and greece some folks.
The Greeks just have to remember Thermopylae.
How Iceland defeated the Anglo-American Bankster Mafia: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zlzC_XMQzI
Varoufakis should force their hand, and not play a hand..
The new Greek government has already put a stop to the silly SWIFT sanctions talk and other incendiary sanctions proposed by the usual suspects, at least for the time being, not bad considering they've only been in office a week. They have to play their hand delicately and build a base with like minded EU countries of which there are more than a couple of contenders. Talk of Tsipras selling out etc is naive. Best to see how things look 6 months hence.
Absolutely agree...give them time to collect their bearings. Then sit back and watch the show. Popcorn anyone?
Everything I see from Varoufakis thus far seems to indicate an entirely accommodative stance with the Troika, which can only translate into more counterfeit money disbursement. They are basically asking for their own special QE program. It's a fat pitch right down the ECB's sweet spot. It's just another excuse being handed on a silver platter to the money junkies so as to justify more money printing which will lead to more malinvestment.
Greece has huge amounts of offshore gas deposits that I am certain Russia is interested in An equity deal between Gazprom and Greece is certainly not out of the question.
Greece should demand that they will only accept loans at a negative interest rate.
Greece is to Europe what Detroit is to USA. And they are the first to default, but not the last.
A thinking man is always a dangerous opponent.
Next up Italy, Spain, France, Portugal, and Ireland.
Repudiate the debt and send those bankster bitches packin'!!
Do it...c'mon do it. Do it.....c'mon.
I can't help myself Tyler. I smell a giant rat:
Despite the public pronouncements of bravado. Everything I see thus far, seems to indicate an entirely accommodative stance in the making with the Troika, which can only translate into more counterfeit money disbursement.
You are basically asking for your own special QE program. It's a fat pitch right down the ECB's sweet spot. It's just another excuse being handed on a silver platter to the money junkies so as to further justify more money printing which will leads to more extend and pretend malinvestment, no growth and further income stagnation.
as shallow as it may be, it is a start at least. just like the iceland meme isnt actually real, this isnt either. but at least someone is saying some shit stirring up stuff out loud, in public.
Let's face it, special QE is default in drag. The default you're having, when you're not having a default. I agree, Greece will face that it ain't willing to leave, they just need a new political narrative, as the old one was beyond worn out. Maybe this time they should cut the ruse and just give the QE directly to DoucheBanke, and send a monthly vig to the Greek politicians and bankers and just not bother with the GGBs at all. What's a bit of confetti between friends, eh?
However, anyway you look at it, fiat is just a claim on resources access and their supply.
If the ECB gives them new QEed Euros, it's still the same as giving them old existing euros, as they will still have a debasing claim on resources access and supply with either, AND EVERYONE ELSE NOT GREEK WILL HAVE THE SAME CLAIM.
So the rest of Europeans in the Euro will still be paying for free resources claims of Greeks, one way or another. If you stop the vig (remunerated access to resources), they will in fact leave. Access to resources is the only real reason to stay in the Euro system, for them now.
This implicit transfer system was always going to be faced with that reality. Of broke unemployed states hitched to the pockets of super affluent industrious states. It's perhaps not a case of will Greece leave the Euro, but more a case of will the Euro leave Greece?
What would the Eurozone's public vote for?
Or is that totally irrelevant?
I think we're open to the evidence, no matter our sense of disappointment. However you're merely making assertions: show us the evidence. I've been watching Vouriakis for some time and his deconstruction of the entire debt scenario and his determination to explode it has been pretty convincing, viz several sessions with Max Keiser on RT and last Mondays Ch 4 News interview.
Germany should pay war reparations,the new government must start any negotiation with that demand.
There is a breath of fresh air coming from Greece; it's beginning to lift the immense and malicious stink in the room....
Translate the Greek: Reparation from Germany via Eurobanks so far good, but now "moar"!
p.s. I like this Mephistoph.. uh Varowhateveries guy!
I guess the feeling in Greece is - better to take your chances with Putin than commit to a future of being endlessly raped in prison by Christine Lagarde
Not a big Pootin' fan, but I think you're right, Madcow.
This is no time to refuse money, according to the Greek 40 point manifesto they are gonna govern and spend their way into prosperity.
Instead of stuffing the banks with 1.100 billion Euro this year, the ECB would better distribute this money to every citizen of the Euro area, about 350 million people, which will give 2.500 Euro to each of them. A family of 4 will receive 10.000,etc.. Including the Greecs,yes.. This will give a enormous boost to all this economies and countries, whereafter this money will come back to the banks, governments, etc by VAT, taxes,etc...Win-win.
Ok, than it's necessary to:
1.) Arrest Greece property
2.) Kick out of EURO zone
3.) Sue for not paying back it's debt
Enough is enough. This babysitting got to stop and Greece has to be responsible for action it made. It was greeks who fiested away their cash, it was greeks who voted all the parties all the time - so no goin back from action they made in past.
Even if what you say is so - what - the next 1-2 generations pay the price also. Don't think so.
Your monniker is freedom but you preach slavery. I think the concept of how Greece got into the EU and decisions made via corruption evades you.
Eg. The Washington DC Corp and Fed purposely bankrupt your country, the right thing to do is?
Here we go again: the Troika's/NWO's shill is back again with confused potherings.
And now it's time for ruskie news:
http://youtu.be/AWvlH6Gn_FM
I'm reserving judgement on this new Greek govt. until the smoke clears but I'm also wondering if the EC is prepared to face the possibility that they flat out made a bad investment in chasing a dream.
Are they ready to print away the losses and walk on down the road?
Can they, with the rest of the PIIGS in the wings?
What happens out in Shadow Banking Land? Who's underwriting all those sidebets?
I'm reserving judgement on this new Greek govt. until the smoke clears
Best plan on this thread. Let's wait and see.
From the Grauniad:
"Send off for Joren Dijsselbloem ended with incredible stand-off as Varoufakis socked him one over the troika. The Dutchman looked enraged, bending forward to whisper something in Varoufakis' ear to which the Greek finance minister did not respond. Greek finance ministry staff standing behind me said 'Oh my God.'
"One said 'I wonder if this is the time to pack my bags.'"
I wonder what Dijsselboem said. "Danae's going to be sorry you said that" wouldn't surprise me.
I have read the entire Guardian output on the Greek issue, especially Varoufakis interviews and the part you quote about Djisselbloem whispering in his ear is a COMPLETE FABRICATION. What really is your agenda????
Schizzelbloem, Schulz and Wolfgang "Punisher" Schaeuble are getting nervous because their Banker friends are about to get exposed for their criminal Ponzi schemes at the expense of the European citizenry. Scorch these corrupt bureaucrats and their benefactors out like vermin, then reboot the European project.
'The Greek people owe nothing, the oligarchs and bankers owe everything' - from Syriza victory speeches.
As soon as Jeroen lands in Greece arrest him for financial Terrorism .
The EU has shown itself to be totally incapable to handle this crisis . It the buffoo ns from the EU cannot handle Greece who is very a minor member of the EU , what hope there is that the EU could handle in a considerate way a default of Italy or Spain and after that the bigger members like France ?
Those economic nincompoop cannot understand that it is criminal financial terrorism to force a population to pay an unpayable debt forever !
EU officials say that " joining the Euro is permanent " they will have to review this rule because my impression is that Greece is the first to exit , other will follow thanks to the idiotic rules of the EU !
They said at the foundation of the EU that this organization would work for the benefit of the members ..... Looking at Greece , the unemployment out of control in the Union , the sanctions against Russia debacle , the sabotaging ot South Stream ...... this union , the sooner it fails the best is for everyone !
Spain, Hungary, Italy, Slovakia will follow.
And others will be politically overthrown and follow then.
Only us pathetic Germans will stay holding our low-wages-goldmedal...
That's all bluster................they will get their haircut, fall in line, and settle right into the same debt based craven counterfeit construct.
From the country that virtually invented government, I'm hoping that the world is paying attention...
Until Greece turns off Russian sanctions and begins selling farm produce and other products to Russia, none of these stories mean anything.