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ECB Threatens Athens With Bank Funding Cutoff If No Deal In One Month: February 28 Is Now D-Day For Greece
As Deutsche Bank's George Saravelos politely puts it, "Developments since the Greek election on Sunday have moved very fast." And indeed, so far the new Tsipras cabinet, and here we focus on the words and deeds of the new finance minister Yanis Varoufakis, has shown that the market's greatest hope - that the status quo in Greece will continue - has been crushed into a pulp (and so have Greek stock and bond prices) especially following yesterday's most recent comments by the finmin in which he said that Greece "does not want the $7 billion" from the Troika agreement and that it wants to "rethink the whole program", culminating with an epic exchange with Eurogroup chief Jeroen Dijsselbloem in which Greece made it clear that the "constructive talks" are over.
And suddenly the Eurozone is stunned, because what had until now been its greatest carrot when it comes to dealing with Greece, has become completely useless when the impoverished, insolvent nation itself says it no longer needs a bailout, seemingly blissfully unaware of the consequences.
So earlier today the ECB's Erikki Liikanen, tired of pleasantries and dealing with what to Europe is a completely incomprehensible and illogical stance, one which is essentially a massive defection by Greece in the European "prisoner's dilemma", and which while leading to a Greek financial collapse and Grexit - both prerequisites to a subsequent Greek economic recovery unburdened by the shackles of the Euro - would also unleash a European depression, came out and directly threatened Greece that it now has 1 month until the end of February to reach a deal with the Troika, or else the ECB would cut off lending to Greek banks, in the process destroying the otherwise insolvent Greek banking sector.
And since only the ECB backstop has prevented a banking sector panic, the ECB is essentially betting the house, and the sanctity of the Eurozone (because after a Grexit all bets are off which peripheral leaves next) that the threat, and soon reality, of a bank run (at last check Greece had about €145 billion in deposits still left in its bank after JPM's latest estimate of €15 billion in outflows in January) will finally force Varoufakis and Tsipras to sit at the negotiating table with the understanding that not they but the Troika has all the leverage.
A deal on extending Greece's bailout deal must be found by the end of February or the European Central Bank will not be able to continue lending to its banks, ECB council member Erkki Liikanen said on Saturday. Europe's bailout programme for Greece, part of a 240-billion-euro ($270 billion) rescue package along with the International Monetary Fund, expires on Feb. 28 and a failure to renew it could leave Athens unable to meet its financing needs and cut its banks off from ECB liquidity support.
Greece's new leftist government, which aims to ease the strict terms of the bailout that have imposed harsh austerity, opened talks with European partners on Friday by flatly refusing to extend the current programme or to cooperate with the international inspectors overseeing it.
"We (ECB) have our own legislation and we will act according to that... Now, Greece's programme extension will expire in the end of February so some kind of solution must be found, otherwise we can't continue lending," Liikanen, also the governor of Finland's central bank, told public broadcaster YLE.
"I don't believe that one can hide from the realities in the economy," he said in an interview.
And then another hint from the ECB, this time from Vitor Constancio. As Bloomberg notes, "at the moment, Greece has a special dispensation from the ECB because it’s complying with a bailout program. That means its debt can be used in central bank refinancing operations even though it is rated junk. “There will be no surprises if we find out that a country is below that rating and there’s no longer a program that that waiver disappears,” ECB Vice President Vitor Constancio said at an event in Cambridge, England, on Saturday."
The question arose why when Greece already has undergone a Private Sector Involvement restructuring, i.e. a bankruptcy that however only impacted private entities and not official ones, such as the ECB, can't Greece have another debt haircut to which Liikanen responded that: "A significant debt restructuring has been carried out with private investors. The ECB cannot fund a state directly, which is what it would mean in this case."
Odd: because that is precisely what the ECB is doing with QE, when it monetizes any of a number of Eurozone deficits. To this Liikanen also had a quick response:
- LIIKANEN SAYS ECB ISN'T FINANCING EURO GOVERNMENTS' DEFICITS
Well, it is, but we'll let that slide for the time being. The bigger issue is that since the ECB directly holds tens of billions of Greek debt, any impairment on this debt would crush what the ECB has been saying from day one: that it can not suffer losses on the debt it has monetized or otherwise transferred over to its balance sheet. Such an impairment would immediately destroy Draghi's credibility, and promptly lead to furious screams from around the Eurozone as taxpayers suddenly realize all too well they are on the hook for funding the Eurozone's most insolvent members, first Greece and then everyone else who has already entered a toxic deflationary spiral. And since the ECB would finally be exposed for being Europe's "bad bank", the scramble to dump as much toxic exposure on Draghi would begin in earnest in the process launching the beginning of the end of the Eurozone.
One can almost see why Greece does think it has all the leverage.
That said, Greece now also has a countdown in which it can and will have to make a decision what to do with its leverage, and precisely 28 days until its very own D-Day which is now February 28, 2015 as per today's ECB threat.
So with February now shaping up to be an even more volatile month for Europe, and thus the world, than January and December (both of which closed red) here is the full schedule of events and what the "known unknowns are" in the next 4 weeks, courtesy of Deutsche Bank.
From George Saravelos' Update on Greece
It is worth bearing in mind that the timing, scope and commitment to the policy changes announced by Greek ministers is highly uncertain, not least because the legislative agenda is likely to be directed by the leadership team of the new government rather than individual line ministries. This still leaves plenty of uncertainty on the new government’s intentions. On the more negative side, the breadth of statements was so wide and the speed with which they were made so quick, that we now consider an extension of the February 28th program expiry date as a key date within the negotiation process: Europe and the Troika are very likely to request an explicit commitment from the Greek government to close the current mission review and not reverse previous policy. The precise form such a commitment would take is unclear at this stage, but our underlying assumption is that uncertainty around the new government’s policy intentions is so high, that Europeans will request assurances before proceeding with more in-depth negotiations over the program in Q2.
In turn, the above developments will likely have important implications for Greek bank financing at the ECB. Termination of the program on February 28th renders GGB-based collateral ineligible at Eurosystem refinancing operations, but still allows Greek banks to shift funding to Emerency Liquidity Assistance. However, ELA usage is under bi-weekly ECB review and is very likely to be on a rising trend over the next few weeks: to accommodate potential deposit flight; to absorb foreigners’ refusal to roll-over t-bills that are maturing; and to absorb fresh government t-bill issuance to finance upcoming debt repayments to the IMF and other obligations. These large needs make it likely that the availability of ELA usage is itself linked to program extension above.
All of the above then leaves three things that need to be clarified over the next few weeks.
First, under what conditions would the Troika be willing to extend the program and what form would this extension take? Our initial expectation was that a technical extension would have been offered to July followed by a successor ECCL program. Recent market developments and poor budget execution leave Greece’s ECCL eligibility an open question however, and it is possible that the Troika now only accepts program extension by a full year to coincide with the conclusion of the IMF program in March 2016. Such a large extension would be more difficult for the Greek government to manage domestically.
Second, does the ECB link Greek bank ELA provision to program extension as well? Given rising usage over the next few months, we would consider this an increasing possibility.
Third, what will the Greek government’s response to these conditions be? Public statements over the last 48-hours make it particularly difficult to envisage the government’s reaction function. On the one hand an offer of a one year extension and a written commitment to close the review would be particularly difficult for the government to manage domestically. On the other hand, the suspension of ECB financing of Greek banks would be exceptionally damaging to the economy.
Here is an indicative timeline of key events that will likely provide answers to these questions:
- Friday January 30th – Eurogroup President Dijsselbloem meets with the Greek finance minister Varoufakis and Deputy PM Dragasakis in Athens. A press conference will follow, with the meeting likely setting the tone of negotiations to follow.
- Sunday February 1st - Greek finance minister Varoufakis meets UK finance minister Osborne in London
- Monday February 2nd – Greek finance minister Varoufakis meets French finance minister Sapin in Paris Tuesday
- February 2nd - Greek finance minister Varoufakis meets Italian finance minister Padoan in Rome
- Wednesday February 4th-5th – Bi-weekly ECB review of ELA
- Wednesday February 4th – Likely t-bill auction to cover 1bn redemption on 6th
- Thursday February 5th - Greek parliament opens, elects new speaker of the House
- Saturday February 7-9th Government presents legislative agenda to parliament, vote of confidence midnight Monday 9th
- Wednesday February 11th – Likely tbill auction to cover 1.4bn maturity on 13th
- Thursday February 12th – European Council of EU Leaders, Tsipras likely to meet Merkel on sidelines
- Friday February 13th – Voting for new Greek President begins, EC Commissioner Avramopoulos most likely candidate as per various media reports, originating from New Democracy. Likely completed by second round on the following day requiring 151 MP majority
- Monday February 16th – Eurogroup where Greece likely to be top of agenda, conditions for extension of program to be made explicit by now
- Wednesday February 18th-19th- - Bi-weekly ELA review
- Saturday February 28th – Current EFSF program expires
In sum, developments and pressure on Greece have accelerated over the last few days, with a very large degree of uncertainty around both the Greek government’s and Troika’s position on how negotiations will proceed. We expect this to be ultimately resolved by a Troika request from the Greek side to commit to program completion and the broad contours of previously committed policy, particularly with regard to structural reform. In turn, program extension may itself be linked to ongoing ECB/ELA financing of Greek banks. The precise form this request takes and the Greek government’s reaction will ultimately determine the path Greece takes in coming weeks and months.
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Angela Merkel rejects debt relief for Greece
German Chancellor's words add to tensions between the radical new Greek government and its international creditorsGerman Chancellor Angela Merkel ruled out any cancellation of Greece's debt and said the country has already received substantial cuts from banks and creditors.
"There has already been voluntary debt forgiveness by private creditors, banks have already slashed billions from Greece's debt," Merkel said in an interview with the Hamburger Abendblatt newspaper.
"I do not envisage fresh debt cancellation," she said.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/angela-merkel/1...
Exactly.
Moral hazard writ large.
It's on.... Austerity versus debt cancellation and growth.
Vladimir Is Happy Ready To Move In And Save Greece From EU Nightmare...
Draghi will blink first...
or else the ECB would cut off lending to Greek banks, in the process destroying the otherwise insolvent Greek banking sector.
Oh! You mean the Greek banks aren't safe like they keep saying?
/s
I killed a man with a Trident!
oh I'm really suuuuuuuuuure these Greek Commies give a fuck about any ECB Draghi threats at this point. They're operating on a mandate that they will not turn back on.
And when, not if, Russia and China back them and bring them into their fold and protect them i.e. the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (that no one is talking about yet), that will signal the end to Greece in the EU and will trigger the next defaults with Italy, Spain, Portugal, etc.
I think the EU fuck-tards know how screwed they are now and anything they try to do or say is just a worthless bluff.
Keep stackin' that phyzz, folks. And I also recommend stacking a healthy supply of popcorn, cuz this show is gonna be epic!
Recommendation?: BANK RUNS, BITCHEZ!!!
Imagine how many people you could enslave if you could print money, then lend it at interest and use the courts to enforce getting paid back.
BANK RUNS...I don't just mean for Greece alone.
I mean EVERYBODY.
GET...YOUR...SHIT...OUTTA...THE...BANKING...SYSTEM...NOW...BITCHEZ!!!
"ECB Lending to Greek banks" means bank welfare and austerity for everyone else. It's the offer of a soup kitchen from the Big House in Brussels. Greece needs to get the fuck out from under the thumb of Euro weenies in Brussels and be the torch of democracy for the world.
SPARTA!
http://finance.yahoo.com/video/faber-dump-biotech-short-central-05520366...
Good interview with Faber and the editor of Barron's.
""Imagine how many people you could enslave if you could print money, then lend it at interest and use the courts to enforce getting paid back.""
Come On... We Are All Decent Humans, What Kind Of Humanoides Would Ever Possibly Stoop That Low ?..
Tsripas' life expectancy can now be measured in days.
Not that I would ever take a contract, any contract, like that but I just wonder what Draghi, Merkel and Yellen are paying?
Maybe even the Mossad will pull it off.
Of course it will be an "ISIS terrorist attack" hit. The Muslims did it....those damned Muzzies.
Of course it will be an "ISIS terrorist attack" hit. The Muslims did it....those damned Muzzies.
Or he'll get a dose of Polonium, and the poisoner will leave his (Russian) passport in the getaway car, along with a copy of 'Polonium Poisoning for Dummies' signed by Vlad himself.
One bogeyman is as good as another, I guess.
Whom are the "Enemy of the DayTM", today, anyway?
The Iraqis, the Afghanis, the Libyans, the Syrians, the Ukrainains, the Russians, the Chinese, or the Pakastnis???
Hell I have lost count and cannot keep up with the nonsense.
Thanks SoL for posting this. I like the part where Faber talks about "shorting the central banks". :-) (original post is WAY up above, search for Faber)
http://finance.yahoo.com/video/faber-dump-biotech-short-central-05520366...
[SoL:] Good interview with Faber and the editor of Barron's.
Big cracks appearing in the EU dam wall.
The new Greek D-Ruble being printed as we speak. Vlad (with a bit of help from China) is in a position to give the EU the REAL meaning of sanctions.
Fate the Magnificent
"Push the Button, Max"
Varoufakis tweets - 1st Feb - UK visit likey includes a trip to De La Rue
That's it. If the euro isn't working for your country, go back to printing your own currency, and eliminate the toxic one.
Prosperity plan for Greece:
1. Default on government debts.
2. Issue drachmas under public control.
3. Hold an annual budget referendum in which the voters decide by how much % to increase the money supply in order to fund the public sector.
4. Offer loans to the private sector at a low-ish interest rate. Drachmas are created when the loan is issued and removed from circulation when the load is repaid. The interest goes to fund the public sector, thereby reducing the tax burden on everyone else.
5. All exports of olives, feta cheese, etc., must be paid for in Drachma, thus creating demand for the currency.
6. Invest in domestic production and reduce imports in order to create a trade surplus and strong(-ish) Drachma.
7. Sign a defense pact with Russia.
Yes, the Greeks have always excelled at creating ruins. This plan will be their Magnum Opus in that regard.
Greek man in middle no gyro to people.
Neoconfucious
http://sd.keepcalm-o-matic.co.uk/i/shut-up-fool.png
Some of those ruins were the kingdom of Troy...
For even more fun, issue euros, not drachmas. Greece has the right to print euros. They have a printing plant in Athens to do it. When things go south in the negotiations, why change your paper to a different currency? Just issue more of the currency you're already issuing and pay your debts in the currency issued. What is Germany going to do, bomb the printing plant and activate the NATO mutual defense treaty?
Always check your Euro notes for the Greek symbol. Burn those notes and pass the duchy on the left hand side.
If you hold a greek, euro denominated bond and they pay with greek symbol notes, you're perfectly free to burn them afterwards. The debt is still paid.
I don't understand why Tsipras just doesn't print euros to fund his debt. Why not? If Europe can ignore Greece's vote on sanctions for Russia, why can't Greece just ignore Europe on printing more euros?
I like the brevity of this list. 2 critiques: .gov can fake the stats for the national referendums, so transparency must be made large to preserve the integrity,... and we need a list of places where money is created and the ratio of assets to credit must be defined (like 1:10 at all banks credit unions and investment banks/commercial banks and those that create derivatives.
- No CB, so no creating money out of thin air
- Federal or national creation for budget is the peoples will
- Insurance, credit unions, state banks, public banks, private banks, investment banks, commercial banks all limited to standard financial instruments and standard accounting (whatever that is) and a ratio of 1:10, plus healthy bank reserves to fall under Basel III
- Greek Treasury needs strategy for precious metals and other reserves to back the currency & government, Pipelines and deals with Russia, China, USA, EU, Germany can be designated for Precious Metal Transactions
But I don't read much, and am not a banker or finance guy.
SWRichmond - "Imagine how many people you could enslave if you could print money, then lend it at interest and use the courts to enforce getting paid back."
Yes, this is exactly what is going on around the world. Are people amazed when GS types were involved in getting Greece into the EU, or GS and other bankster types were in high levels of their government ?
Perkins wrote all about it. It's a massive scam. And the attempts to put the world on a 'carbon credit' based financial system that they control, to replace the petro $, is just another scam. They can get away with it because many haven't learned the critical thinking skills needed to see through the fraud.
The ruling system of the West is completely run by criminal fraud & lies from top to bottom.
Americans revolted to get out from under the oppression of King George's Bank of England, then over the next 200 years allowed their corrupt 'representatives' to grant the right to issue money as loans at interest, to 3 more private banks. It's America's tragic, shameful, and ongoing untold story, hiding in plain sight:
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/allwarsarebankerswars.pdf
Note to the Greek people: Get your Euros the hell outta the bank. You don't want to be last in line when this shit goes down.
Remember Cyprus!TM
What Euros? The ECB and IMF vampires have sucked them all out of the system -
Agreed. This statement, when analyzed, is full of holes:
A deal on extending Greece's bailout deal must be found by the end of February or the European Central Bank will not be able to continue lending to its banks, ECB council member Erkki Liikanen said on Saturday. Europe's bailout programme for Greece, part of a 240-billion-euro ($270 billion) rescue package along with the International Monetary Fund, expires on Feb. 28 and a failure to renew it could leave Athens unable to meet its financing needs and cut its banks off from ECB liquidity support.
First off, Greece said NO to further bailouts. The first sentence above claims otherwise and is propaganda for the masses.
Second, the "rescue package" is 6 years on already. How many more years of failed life support does the current setup need?
Third, the last sentence is a total oxymoron. There is no "ECB liquidity". There are bankers trying to enslave the masses through ongoing bank "crisis". The system, as is currently setup, is designed so that the bankrupt nations are beholden and dependent on CB "liquidity", that in reality doesn't exist either.
THE STATEMENT BY REUTERS IS TOTAL PROPAGANDA. Greece already said FU to the EU. Mario is panicking because the bankers will lose their grip on controlling the Greece citizens if they exit - as they should.
Alexis and Varoufakis: Keep your enemies close, and your bodyguards closer.
Riddle me this Euro Bankers. Why would you lend the Greeks so much money when you live in a "true democracy" (That you love to shove down the rest of the uncivilized worlds throat) when you know at any moment the people of Greece could vote NOT TO PAY YOU BACK.
Show us all your respect for democracy now.
"Fuck the EU."
-Victoria "Cookies" Nuland.
No worries. The financial fallout will be contained to Europe...
And have I a bridge to sell to you if you will believe that...
It is made out of imaginarium with that ultra durable unobtainium. In fact once on this bridge you will never have to worry about energy costs as your car will travel forever.
With this material you can actually pave entire Nations as the limits are only that of your imagination.
And I have it for the bestest price...
And while we are at it did you know that I can ride a bike with no handlebars...
THIS ENTIRE FUCKED UP SYSTEM IS RUN BY CHILDREN...ADULT CHILDREN...LOCKED IN FANTASYLAND.
Damn...We are so fucked.
They love status quo, all decisions revolve around this. QE is great example.
Hey I notice gold jewelry is only gold plated here, is it any kind of real investment? plus 14 karat plated seems cheap crap. I doubt any of it is stamped for karats anyway.
and I see watches, but they are not stores of wealth are they. I never liked watches anyway.
what is the story about how jewelry gets called jewelry anyway.
If I were Greece http://ian56.blogspot.com/2012/10/if-i-were-greece.html
Anyone who thinks that Italian taxpayers are going to stump up 48 billion euros, or Spain will pay 32 bn if Greece defaults needs to head straignt for the insane asylum without passing GO. http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.co.uk/2015/01/revised-greek-defau...
Draghi doesn't make policy, he implements it, or he gets sacked.
Greece is already anti austerity and the ruling party is close to Russia.....now here comes the next domino - Spain - joining the anti austerity drive and pro Russian camp.
Podemos Anti-Austerity Party on the Rise, Thousands Protest in Madrid
Read more: http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150131/1017590110.html#ixzz3QPZRUalD
And here is the 'sea of people' in Madrid today: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-31072537
I don't get it. Is this when everyone starts voting for their own enslavement but I thought that already happened.
That's right history repeats itself.
I am sitting in a bar having a goodly number of lunch beers and can't keep thinking of your "voting for enslavement" meme. I understand that people don't want to make decisions in their life but that is hard for me to deal with. I am going to have another 1, 2 or 3 to fully grok your point.
putin doesn't even have to move a piece on the chess board. imagine winning without playing. zero risk, come to papa, we have a warm bed for to sleep in. oh yea ma makes breakfast in the morning, hot shower-sure. laundry room(do it yourself), ha...
russia, keep reserved and strong, you and china are the only hope to stop the madness.
can't even believe i typed this- hey nsa it's true, you are on the wrong side...
When Communist China and Oligopoly Russia are your "good guys" you know you're fucked...
http://www.whatdoesitmean.com/index1834.htm
Putin is making moves already
Vlad is always happy to help. Just hide the valuables.
Greeks repudiate the debt. Get on a sound footing offering value for value in trade with the BRICS. Issue warrants for the arrests of those criminals that helped put you in this place. Own up to your own responsibility for believing their lies.
Vlad is fighting for his own survival.
Bad timing for Greece...
Do you remember what happened a year ago when he did it for Ukraine?
Can't see it. The posturing by Vlad is entertaining. Vlad woud expect to be paid back. Flogging veg to Russia ain't going to save Greece.
The warm water port, trade and tourism are worth something.
Cuba/Soviets = Greece/Russia ?????
No growth. The great contraction is underway.
Soon Greeks will see the difference between broke and bankrupt.
.
Some PIIGS are more equal.
The Greeks response has been:
Release The Kraken
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gb2zIR2rvRQ
The Title of this Article reads as, "
ECB Threatens Athens With Bank Funding Cutoff If No Deal In One Month: February 28 Is Now D-Day For Greece"Actually it needs to read, February 28 is Now D-Day For The European Union.
Brer Fox, Whatever you do just do not throw me into that briar patch. Please just don't throw me into that briar patch.
~Brer Rabbit.
What a hollow threat. This is so fucking laughable.
Who is next to tell the ECB to fuck off?
Portugal?
Spain?
The ECB is dead. Germany is fucked.
And the whole charade of Credit Default Swaps will implode the Derivatives Markets.
Go Greece. Western Civilization was born there. It is most appropriate that it shall die there.
Maybe it needs to read that February 28 is D-Day for Western Civilization...Yeah...Much better.
Collapse baby, collapse.
Fuck Socialism.
Ok so one more down month, then another nail biting finale where the Greeks cave, the ecb wins, ecb qe kicks in and world market s are off to the races. Got it thx
It's brilliantly witty statements like these that make me always love zerohedge.
Is there anyway for Greece to continue to use the Euro banking system and allow a secondary system to exist along side it ? Use the Euro and the Drachma
It is called the Fx...It pretty much already exists.
The legal question isn't "Is there any way to..." the question is actually "Has Greece signed any treaty, currently in force, where they promised NOT to..." (which would add a hurdle, but a potentially surmountable one - for CHF 1000 per hour).
Those here who have looked can't find anything which prevents such a course, except the will of the Greek government.
Greece act like a hugh anchor on the Euro system draging it down but uses another system inside the country for exchange of goods and services.
Bingo motherfuckers!!!!!
The blatant fascism is front and center now. One set of rules for them (with no printer) and another set for us (with the printer).
Full faith and credit.
What part of all fiat will die don't people understand?
Haha this tells it all, the guy never had a decent job in his live.
Erkki Liikanen obtained a Bachelor's degree in Political Science (Economics) from the University of Helsinki in 1975. He was elected to the Finnish Parliament in 1972 when he was only 21 years old.
They must of seen the Schnitzel face video...
Jeeeneeuzzz, jeeeneeuzzz, jeeeneeuzz Greek peepuls, saving the world from the Germanz again!
It's all Bullshit!!! Every day some news where the end of this crap is right around the corner. Never happens and won't in this case either. They will reach a compromise at the last minute and the markets will jack up 400 points. I'd love to see the European banks eat this Greek shit they hold but I doubt it happens on Feb 28th.
The one way it could happen is Putin come to the rescue for Greece and really stick it to these bankers. He plays masterful chess while Obama and Europe try to play checkers.
European Banks lately unloadet 99% of that shit already upon the European (+ US-) tax-slave, aka EZB, IMF...
No problem ther.
It's not Bullshit - it's Kabuki.
Have you considered how outlandishly ludicrous that sounds? Putin can't even save his own State from its own self-induced mess.
Well, you are correct. Putin can not save Russia from this ridiculous game of passing off paper, created solely by a franchise of bankers, as claims against real wealth. The reason he can't is because that game is controlled by these bankers who have a complete understanding of how to entrap, suck dry and enslave the people using said system.
The fact of the matter is that sovereign countries which control resources that are useful in sustaining commerce and trade, hold the real weath and the cocksuckers who pose as bankers are merely parasites sucking the lifeblood out of the countries using their monetary entrapment system.
What has to happen is for a completely NEW system to emerge and throw off these "moneychangers" (parasites) from controllling the world trade/commerce system for their benefit.
That is what the SCO, BRICS organization is attempting to do (as I understand it, although it's possible they just want the new system to be under their control but not fairer to the "people").
So, to your statement that this is ludicrous, yes it is. Russia can't win this game by staying within the rules put up by the bankers because it's un-winnable as you and I would define it. However, they can collapse this system and hopefully have a plan B that works better by implementing a trading system that both controls cheating by their trading partners (also known as printing) as well as actually allowing the common man to store the fruits of their labors without continued devaluations. We'll see how that works out.
Agreed. Note that the primary victims of the banks are not Russians (well, at least not until recently), it's the people in the West who've by far been screwed the most by bankster-bribes and bankster-funded weapon-state inspired politics of the past 30 years.
The Golden Rule:
He who has the Gold makes the rules.
Who has the Gold?
You seem to be struggling to articulate some sort of salient point, minus the necessary words and concepts of an actual meaningful statement that links to anything.
China has the Gold...
Russia has the Gold...
India has the Gold...
I made the assumption that you had the relevant knowledge but gave you far too much credit.
The World's Top 10 Gold Producers
You're kidding yourself again. Australia is the world's second largest gold producer, the USA is the worlds 4th largest gold producer (more recent figures put them as now larger producers of gold than Russia), and Canada is the worlds 7th largest gold producer. It's been that way, or approximately so, for quite a long time now. Do you seriously suppose or imagine these countries will ever be taking shit from anyone on the grounds of who has the gold, and who can pay?
If you are then you're rather a moron.
Producer map
We have already reached "Peak Gold" as mine reserves are in decline. Furthermore with the active price surpression mines have been shut down.
But much more important than production of Gold is the accumulation of Gold Reserves. (Good attempt at the Red Herring...)
I do not really care about Mine Production in any given Nation. What I care about is "out of the ground" reserves ready for delivery on trade for durable and perishable goods.
While what you wrote is true about endemic Financial Insolvency the power will shift to those whom have stored up the reserves of Gold upon the total Financial Meltdown.
You wrote
R Russia's economy and finances are approaching collapse fast.
I India just made all sorts of deals with the US for economic growth, and is negotiating a free trade deal with Australia ASAP, and similar arrangements are entrain with the US. India is very keen to increase two-way trade with Europe also.
C China is in serious economic slowdown and has just signed a Strategic Partnership Agreement With Australia plus just finalized a free trade deal with Australia - the first such deal with the West. China and Europe are also major trading partners and committed to expansion of their relationship.
Yet you fail to collect your own thoughts about the larger frame, and the unavoidable consequences thereof, about that which you have wrote.
How much Gold does the United States have in reserve? We could not even pay Germany back a lousy 300 Metric Tons. That is a miniscule amount when compared to that of the 180,000 Metric Tons ever mined according to the World Gold Council.
If that is the case then does the USA really have 8500 Tons?
I know that the Bank Of Canada has not much if any.
When the fiat currencies fail, and fail they must, then trust will be completely eroded and all that will be trustworthy is Gold.
You can paint these other nations as trainwrecks if you must, and I will agree that they are trainwrecks, but you fail to understand that when it all comes down, and certainly it will, that the Golden will Rule.
So the answer to this question proposed, "Do you seriously suppose or imagine these countries will ever be taking shit from anyone on the grounds of who has the gold, and who can pay?", is a resounding YES I DO. There will be NO TRUST WHATSOEVER when the entire Financial System implodes.
So go ahead and expound upon Russia's temporary problems directly caused by the USA sanctions.
I laugh in your face as I know that the economy Japan is crumbling, the ECB is insolvent, thus the economy of the European Union is being shredded. the economy of the United Kingdom is hanging on for dear life as she is starved of North Sea Oil Revenues, and the economy of the USA is gasping her final desperate breaths. because of her fascist economic policies.
Yet you maintain confidence in that over Russia, China, and India? That is fucking laughable.
Russia, China, and India will emerge victorious and defiant as they have exercised the prudence of accumulating Gold Reserves as they have lost faith and confidence in the American Currency Ponzi Scheme.
Now how is that for a "salient point"?
What a load of silly piffle, you waffle gold theories, hook, line and sinker, and fail to understand it's just one trade-able mineral, and still priced in USD (which is itself backed by oil - black gold).
There is no such thing as 'peak-gold' you silly man.
Australia has been the world's largest gold producer several times, from the 1860s to present times. It was biggest producer just ten years ago as well. i.e. production rises and falls to low levels, only to explode to a new higher level again, with new exploration and new technologies.
The only reason China is producing more than Australia now is because they undertook a major exploration program last decade to find more of it. In other words, the country that is producing the most gold is rarely the country that has the most gold in the ground or able to be extracted. Often the difference in production levels has nothing at all to do with the level of known reserves. Numerous other factors are involved in the economics and desirability of extraction.
Companies in Australia often sit on a deposit for 30 or 50 years before they decide to develop it. The fact you use such a silly concept as peak-gold is only revealing your lack of understanding about mineral reserves and why and how they come to be, and then continually vary dynamically with the economic conditions, and with many other factors.
You also forget (or else don't know) that the primary industries of the West shit all over those of India, China and Russia by a very large margin, countries that at times struggled to even feed themselves, and have each suffered enormous famines killing millions or tens of millions during the past century, or else chronic malnutrition and disease. That didn't even look like happening in the West. Even at the end of WWII people still had access to food.
None of the "with the gold" States has seen a real drought for several decades, certainly not like those we know about within historically recorded times, but they will. We will see tens of millions of people starving and dieing in those countries, at some point.
That is not going to happen in the west though, as it has every resource it needs in abundance and shortages of vitals is basically non-existent, we instead produce a huge excess, which the world demands to live as they do. So there will be no lack of trade, nor any incapacity to reconcile trades. They come to us to trade, not the other way around.
A vault full of gold changes nothing in that respect, if they want urban cities, they are going to have to trade with us, and pay what the market will bare. In other words, India and China especially would NEED a very very large amount of gold, as we would require it of them if they wanted to eat well and live well within an urban setting, with power and full amenities.
Certainly the members of the top ten gold producers will not be taking crap from anyone, in Russia, India, or China, regarding a gold-backed currency (if one ever exists, this coming decade).
In Australia a lot of our gold production comes in the form of secondary minerals that were not even the primary minerals for which mines are developed. The same with silver and other precious metals. In other words a lot of the gold is just some icing on the cake mixed in with industrial base metal mineral deposits we mine. If the country actually needed to produce a stack of nationalized gold fast, it could do so very quickly, and I have no doubt the US could do the same.
The west's strategic use of secrecy and deception is obligatory. It has been that way since the end of the colonial era. Note that the US invested hugely in keeping a large Strategic Reserve of black-gold on hand. If you think the acquisition of gold by other countries who have declared an intent to eliminate USD has gone unnoticed, and not responded to, you really are a complete idiot.
--
btw, Japan's economy is geared to high-tech production, it is a massive producer that makes the US look dismal, in many respects. It's number one problem is over capacity if anything. And given it signed a comprehensive free trade deal with Australia last year (the first with anyone) and removed almost all trade tariffs completely (something the US and Canada would wet themselves to have achieved), Japan now has much cheaper access to reliable energy and mineral inputs to production, and far greater capacity to compete globally, especially with oil falling sharply and local disposable incomes rising proportionately, even as the AUD is falling sharply, making inputs to production that much cheaper again! Economy on its last legs it isn't, you silly fool. People like you have been repeatedly saying since 1989, that Japan was on its last legs, this time for sure, well good luck with that sort of doomer fairytale.
Really Angela? which banks were those? Yours or Greece's, with all their pension funds?
F u, lying cunt
@JustObserving
Banks have indeed slashed billions of debt, from their balance sheets, by dumping it on the European taxpayers.
They think they are in the clear.
If Greece defaults, the derivatives stacked up around the European bonds will blow them all out of the water.
Look out below, incoming on the 28 th of February.
Greece doesn't care.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yloaBw80fV4
the BRICS have a golden opportunity to destroy the EU. all they have to do is to make a quiet, back room deal with Tsipiras to pick up the slack while having his govt wringing their hands and publicly looking vulnerable. then, after 2/28 when they are cut off from the contagion, they can turn the page and leave the EU with its cascading debt failures as a result of their exit.
BRICs
B Brazil's economy is collapsing now.
R Russia's economy and finances are approaching collapse fast.
I India just made all sorts of deals with the US for economic growth, and is negotiating a free trade deal with Australia ASAP, and similar arrangements are entrain with the US. India is very keen to increase two-way trade with Europe also.
C China is in serious economic slowdown and has just signed a Strategic Partnership Agreement With Australia plus just finalized a free trade deal with Australia - the first such deal with the West. China and Europe are also major trading partners and committed to expansion of their relationship.
These countries are either getting closer to the west (China and India), or else in such economic and financial strife that they're in no position to do much but try to survive what comes their way (Brazil and Russia).
The BRICs are NOT an international power block, they are NOT an alliance, they are NOT a Strategic partnership.
The term BRICs is something invented in about 2000, and went mainstream in 2008-09, and is nothing more that a basket of economies of comparable developmental level that is used in comparisons between baskets of other similar economies. BRICs is a mere slang category used in international economic comparisons.
Any allusion to BRICs being a geopolitical power block with a plan for world domination and the destruction of the EU, or Western world in general, is about as entertainingly ignorant and vapidly retarded a load of completely silly crap as I've read for some time.
Indeed the term BRICs has effectively passed its use-by date, even as an economic comparison.
Element
BRICs has effectively passed its use
Are you sure about your post? I question your laid out premises.
Let me show you:
First:
Russia, China Begin Construction Of World's Largest Gas Pipeline
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-09-01/putin-celebrates-groundbreaking-russia-china-gas-pipeline-worlds-longest
Second:
By Dubaibanker: ….so many billions are moving to onshore China plus a lot of money can also move to Singapore and remain in HKD and the real estate is still stable and rising where it could be invested etc without appearing in any monetary statistics.
Having said that, deposits in HK have doubled since 2007 and quadrupled since 1997.
Latest data here on banking: http://www.hkma.gov.hk/eng/market-data-and-statistics/monthly-statistica...
Meanwhile, deposit rates are exploding in HK due to massive demand to send to onshore China.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-01-30/it-begins-energy-giant-chevron-suspends-stock-buyback-blames-cash-flow-squeeze#comment-5726281
Thanks Escrava for quoting me.
For anyone who thinks BRICS is not working needs to only see my report and see some links that I made in Oct 2013. Though it specifically is for China but it shows how much China is supporting BRICS by investing there, providing trade finance, leading the creation of multiple large banks to facilitate trade and stability, buying oil and resources, doing trade, developing infrastructure etc.
http://www.slideshare.net/mnathani/understanding-the-coming-domination-o...
The Chinese currency keeps growing in global stature and now is also Top 5 in trade in 2014: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internationalization_of_the_renminbi
This is the report US Congress prepares and sees which is not promoted by MSM or US banks: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/row/RL33534.pdf
All 3 are fascinating to see and understand the leverage and harmony China has created amongst BRICS as well as many other nations and promoted all of them by buying their goods and supplying them finance etc.
China is doing the same thing everywhere else as well so I maintain that 'BRICs' is an unnecessary figment, a conceptual artefact that's just used to suggest something tangible that isn't there.
Yes, Escrava Isaura, thanks but I am very sure about my post.
A pipeline is simply a commodity delivery mechanism for oil or gas, a bit like a tanker ship in that respect, but longer and often doesn't use a port. I see nothing particular in this project. There are several like it on similar scale that have been developed in Australia over the past five years, that now supply China, Japan and South Korea.
At the end of the day there's always a back and forth ambivalence between Russia and China, bordering on cycles of animosity and aggression interspersed with the understanding that they need to work together, sometimes, for mutual security benefit. It's been like that since the late 1940s. I'd be very surprised if China and Russia did not develop Russian resources. China must diversify its strategic energy supply options, I'd do the same.
But to see that through a hackneyed prism of 'The BRICs' I think is invalid and inaccurate, as a concept of what is ocurring.
I'm not familiar with Dubai banker's links so will look at those which he posted, but need to get some shut-eye.
Cheers.
It is a Hollow threat. The EU cannot do it.
If they do then they fuck themselves as other debtor parties will also seek to default.
If they do not then Greece will default anyway and the result is the same.
Actually the EU is DEAD Man WALKING. It is in a TERMINAL STATE. It is on the trap door of a gallows with a noose around the neck. It has not much time left amongst the viable.
It is something to celebrate.
Well unless she plans on rolling tanks into Greece, which her population would never approve of and would lead to a complete implosion of the Euro and the fragile German bnaking system, I have no idea why anybody thinks that Angela Merkel is in the driver's seat here... so, yes I agree with you, very low change of any agreement now.
Don't they know they must do whatever it takes to please CNBC?
Maher on Muslims: 'stop respecting their medieval bullsh-t’
http://mediaequalizer.com/brian-maloney/2015/01/maher-on-muslims-stop-re...
What they need to do is put some windex on that shit.
RE: "I do not envisage fresh debt cancellation," she said.
She won't have to envisage anything, it'll just show up. That way she won't have to use her brains, just her eyes.
Debt repudiation....even the bible had a jubile every 70 years (and debt forgiveness every 7 years). Without that by now the entire earth would be owned by a single entity (it isn't right?).
"Oh Br'er Bear, please don't toss me into that briar patch!"
Vlad: "Oh good...a date. I'll make my cheque out now."
Going big and boxing themselves into a calendar window is a poor strategy, when all they really want to do is kick the can and enlarge the more important calendar window, unless they have something to offer other than capitulation. But they're not actually that smart.
This box is cheap cardboard, just like the previous boxes.
At the end of the day, it is the amount of money earmarked as bribes - that actually arrives in the box - that truly matters, not these flimsy deadlines.
I am betting heavily that the new Greek government will be just as corrupt as the prior one; nothing will improve for the common people until much blood is spilled, the air smells of cordite, the looters have moved on to new carrion, and that I believe is still a long way into the future for the Greeks.
Business, government, organized crime and conspriacy in general have a lot in common. Importantly, the biggest killer of deals in that scary Venn diagram is zero-sum greed. If one wants to "win" and keep the deal/con/graft alive and flowing, then everyone (at the table) needs to get their "fair share" or at least feel they are getting a fair share.
...and that I believe is still a long way into the future for the Greeks.
Collapses happen explosively. It has been slowly crumbling for many, many years. Yeah. Corruption reigns, bribes are taken...yada...yada...yada. Didn't that happen last time? And the time before that, in another locale?
Something else is happening. I can sense it. This is not "business as usual."
When the failure happens, not if but when, then it will seem as "Well that escalated quickly.".
I do not give it that much time.
If Martin Armstrong is correct in his 2015.75 forecast then the Greek Collapse should happen about now...or very, very soon. It crumbles on the fringes before it reaches the core. That is how empires succumb.
Besides there is that damned Credit Default Swap Derivative imbalance when Greece goes down...
No problem as it is just nominal, right?
Historically, when govt's start doing this (Iran with confiscation of British Owned Oil and Iraq and Lybia that refused to take dollars for their oil) they, somehow....,get overthrown or otherwise replaced. I wonder if the EU has the stomach for that.
the calender keeps rolling on - new issues everyday - new cash required endlessly - so the banks will only be backstopped for short periods so that the EU can keep controllling the Greeks - its a tactical game not a strategy- There is no solution to 350 Billion Euro
temporary liquidity does nothing at the individual level for millions - short term pain for long term gain
rollout and fuckup the system with systemic collapse allows real solution(s) everywhere - Spain will follow in a heart beat
and so the french franc and the lira!
the cover for Greece is everyone piling on
They are not interested in the same sort of solutions - but there are solutions (for what they seek).
Just as there were no solutions (in the common sense) for the Wiemar Republic and Germany's debt arising from the Treaty of Versailles. But they managed to kick the can all the way from June of 1919 to October 2010 (even a World War could only interrupt that debt scheme, rinse repeat with the UNCC and Iraq - which is why I laugh at the peanut gallery who clutch to certain Wolfowitz quotes like a talisman for their ignorant logic). In the 90-year interim Germany went from an economic basket case worse than Greece today to an industrial powerhouse (or they'd still be kicking the can).
Debt is money, until the debt is written off by the holder, or the rest of the Club®(s) (London® and Paris® come to mind) decide otherwise.
greeks should send a real message to mario and his fucking entitled kid at ms.
Arrows from behind the phalanx?
Calvary on the flank and reserve.
Worked for nearly a thousand years.
So, basically, I have 28 days to clean out all my FDIC-insured U.S. bank accounts and convert to gold.
Thanks for the tip!
Ya and don't leave it too late in case the Greek Banks get the same idea.
Run forest run...
Tough talk to complete Mutti's mantra of "no more debt relief" to Yanis Varoufakis's "fuck u Troika" rant.
Well, like I said, if you take on Greece you may start the ball of contention rolling accross the Club Med countries from Spain to Portugal and then the bond market will be in turmoil if the market pendulum swings against subsequent QE chimes.
If the south says "no more bank bailouts its time to bail out the real economy and create real growth by imposing banksta hair cuts", we will have EU leaders shouting : Panic stations on the Titanic.
The camel and the straw, the catalyst and the runaway reaction... can Syriza call Mutti/Draghi hard talk and take on the pain of seeing if there is hard stuff behind that hot air?
Syriza is not alone in the fight. Podemos is strengthening in Spain. Die Linke in Germany too. Curiously, Renzi is trying to ally with Tsipras...
What will make the symphony complete are the Greens becoming the conductor of the European Socialists and the Radical Left. the "right wing" is also welcome to join the party ;-)
Game over to weapons of mass destructive financial capitalism.
Tyler. Any comments from you on Tsipras saying that they will payoff the ECB and IMF? What does that mean? Did he just blink?
Not to speak for the Tylers, but I think he is going to pay them off in Drachmas.
My cell service texts the same stuff. And they’ll persistently text too!
I text them back and tell them to leave me alone.
I had texting disabled on my phone. Fuck that crap.
Michael Hudson has been writing about it for decades . . .
Now The Road to Debt Deflation, Debt-Peonage and Neo-Feudalism runs directly through Greece:
http://www.levyinstitute.org/pubs/wp_708.pdf
"...The end product of today’s Western capitalism is a neo-rentier economy—precisely what
industrial capitalism and classical economists set out to replace during the Progressive Era
from the late 19th to early 20th century. A financial class has usurped the role that landlords
used to play—a class living off special privilege. Most economic rent is now paid out as
interest. This rake-off interrupts the circular flow between production and consumption,
causing economic shrinkage—a dynamic that is the opposite of industrial capitalism’s original
impulse. The “miracle of compound interest,” reinforced now by fiat credit creation, is
cannibalizing industrial capital as well as the returns to labor. " m.h.
.
making sense is like garlic to these fascistic and idiotic vampires.
Russia's and China's time to be the ECB spoiler.
Threaten to exit out of NATO to join Russia and China.
Putin, offer a way for the PIIGS out of the bankster stranglehold.
Oh yes, Russian client states have historically been so prosperous!
The leaders of the Fourth Reich aka EUSSR are a pack of fascists - thats why they happily support the scum in the Ukraine.
Yanis Varoufakis should be off to Russia next plane holding up two fingers as he goes up the steps.
400,000,000 are held, virtual political prisoners by the Germans and their minions.
And at least half want out.
Its a political cesspit.
No mog, it's not the Germans.
Markets don't like ticking time bombs
Time to grab the popcorn
Haha, just my thought.
Anchorman: "Well that got out of hand quickly. Brick killed a guy..."
I hope Tsipras gives Draghi the finger!
ECB proving once again they dont give a fuck about the greek people
As the PTB watch their failed experiment of a one world order slip away I cannot help but think of the last page of The Great Gatsby
..:as I sat there, brooding on the old unknown world, I thought of Gatsby’s wonder when he first picked out the green light at the end of Daisy’s dock. He had come a long way to this blue lawn and his dream must have seemed so close that he could hardly fail to grasp it. He did not know that it was already behind him, somewhere back in that vast obscurity beyond the city, where the dark fields of the republic rolled on under the night.
EU's Xerxes demands Greeks to apply logic https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvILGIIVsMU
Lets see if the KGB man or the punk pot smokin bisexual man from Kenya wins.
Friday the 13th. Perfect date for an historic presidential election.
And just like Ukraine, you either get on your knees and beg or else...
And all the while Putin still is funding the Ukrainian government with emergency relief efforts and other forms of compensation with close to 1 million refugees while Porshenko's government is left to twist in the wind!...
Now it's Greece's turn!
But the good news is Russia has a pipeline to build and Greece is part of the deal!!!
Hey, why could Greece not ink a deal on the Russian fuel pipeline? A straight deal, they get future gas funds now, deducted at a % from the actual future revenues earned by being a transit/shipping/termination point. This is a great opportunity for Russia to bust the stranglehold of the Banksters by turning both Turkey and Greece.
And it is not unusual, as both countries have always had an east-west pivot owing to their geographical location.
This is what happened last time Greece tried to make a deal with Russia:
http://rt.com/news/plot-kill-karamanlis-russia-649/
Pretty much says it like it is
http://rt.com/shows/crosstalk/227731-ukraine-mobilization-nuland-statement/
Probably very off=thread, but possibly of interest to you:
Brother in Law (Moscow) has mentioned that the number of internal flights of both TU95s and TU160's have increased significantly (per his "friends" with Mil. contacts - being in the Finance "Industry", he has many "friends with knowledge" as you might guess.) There have also been some internal (so unofficial) discussions with Kazhakstan re. leasing of the former heavy bomber base in Semipalatinsk (Dolon Airbase), which could be placed back into service with very little expenditure, since the runways are still in very good condition.
No idea why this is happening, but an added (possibly relevant) snippet was that both TU95s and TU160's are following the same (over the ground) flight paths as ICBM / IRBM test flights out to the Kura Test Range, so operating very long-range missions. Seeing as Kura has some very high precision radars (for long-range ICBM test range operations ), "connecting the dots" suggests that something may be afoot, maybe involving these radars, the aircraft, their payloads, or a combination thereof, though exactly what we certainly don't know.
Greece will fold like a tent. Unfortunately.
And if it does so will the rest of the EU. Greece was the insignificant poorest member the troika can do without!... Remember?...
Draghi's moves are only projecting instability and panic for the rest of the Union!
At the end of his rope. Literally!
Tsipras and Syriza seem to be the Soros' trojan horse:
http://hellasfrappe.blogspot.ie/2013/01/tsipras-holds-talks-with-us-stat...
In 2013 he was invited by Soros into USA, gave speech at Brooking Institute, and was attending other parties. All what Tsipras/Syriza does should benefit Soros.
Duplicate removed..
Is Soros trying to break the ECB as he did the BoE?
Is he shorting the Euro?
If so, then by installing Tsripas he did a brilliant move.
It is unfortunate that he consolidates his power in doing so.
But the EU was a bad idea from the start.
Yet Soros is also one evil socialist bastard.
We cheerl for Greece because they take a stand against the oppresion of the oligarchy, yearning for freedom from enslavement, yet choosing enslavement from a diffent master.
But quite possibly we are cheerleading for, in the long run, the tightening of the chains of bondage for us all.
Now isn't that a dilemma?
Agreed. The experiment of one currency for the EU has failed. When you don't have your own currency, you have no sovereignty. Period.
That is the most likely scenerio..... but - there is no solution to 300 Billion Euro- all know that everywhere - today, tomorrow, next year / ten years / 30 years
so when you are the "strongest politically" Syriza has a decision not based upon economics or what the EU provides temporarily - but on political currency - leverage all the other countries in the same position ---- everyone sings the same song - the banks go down and the new world order becomes reality
when you have nothing you have the advantage
LOL. Knight to Queen 4: Tsipras makes an application to exit NATO and signs a deal to give Russia and China military bases in the Mediterranean.
The Wall Street and ECB banksters forced this situation.
Have fun banksters trying to control the rest of 90% people while stealing their wealth.
We know the banksters will take us to WWIII before you relinquish control.
More like...Tsipras implies Greece is considering such a move. A subsequent terrorist attack in and on Greece takes out he and his fellow travelers, and the susbsequent state of emergency finds a ECB/Western stooge now at the helm.
So ends the Greek experiment.
Business as usual.
Terrorists with Nail Guns™