This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.
ECB Threatens Athens With Bank Funding Cutoff If No Deal In One Month: February 28 Is Now D-Day For Greece
As Deutsche Bank's George Saravelos politely puts it, "Developments since the Greek election on Sunday have moved very fast." And indeed, so far the new Tsipras cabinet, and here we focus on the words and deeds of the new finance minister Yanis Varoufakis, has shown that the market's greatest hope - that the status quo in Greece will continue - has been crushed into a pulp (and so have Greek stock and bond prices) especially following yesterday's most recent comments by the finmin in which he said that Greece "does not want the $7 billion" from the Troika agreement and that it wants to "rethink the whole program", culminating with an epic exchange with Eurogroup chief Jeroen Dijsselbloem in which Greece made it clear that the "constructive talks" are over.
And suddenly the Eurozone is stunned, because what had until now been its greatest carrot when it comes to dealing with Greece, has become completely useless when the impoverished, insolvent nation itself says it no longer needs a bailout, seemingly blissfully unaware of the consequences.
So earlier today the ECB's Erikki Liikanen, tired of pleasantries and dealing with what to Europe is a completely incomprehensible and illogical stance, one which is essentially a massive defection by Greece in the European "prisoner's dilemma", and which while leading to a Greek financial collapse and Grexit - both prerequisites to a subsequent Greek economic recovery unburdened by the shackles of the Euro - would also unleash a European depression, came out and directly threatened Greece that it now has 1 month until the end of February to reach a deal with the Troika, or else the ECB would cut off lending to Greek banks, in the process destroying the otherwise insolvent Greek banking sector.
And since only the ECB backstop has prevented a banking sector panic, the ECB is essentially betting the house, and the sanctity of the Eurozone (because after a Grexit all bets are off which peripheral leaves next) that the threat, and soon reality, of a bank run (at last check Greece had about €145 billion in deposits still left in its bank after JPM's latest estimate of €15 billion in outflows in January) will finally force Varoufakis and Tsipras to sit at the negotiating table with the understanding that not they but the Troika has all the leverage.
A deal on extending Greece's bailout deal must be found by the end of February or the European Central Bank will not be able to continue lending to its banks, ECB council member Erkki Liikanen said on Saturday. Europe's bailout programme for Greece, part of a 240-billion-euro ($270 billion) rescue package along with the International Monetary Fund, expires on Feb. 28 and a failure to renew it could leave Athens unable to meet its financing needs and cut its banks off from ECB liquidity support.
Greece's new leftist government, which aims to ease the strict terms of the bailout that have imposed harsh austerity, opened talks with European partners on Friday by flatly refusing to extend the current programme or to cooperate with the international inspectors overseeing it.
"We (ECB) have our own legislation and we will act according to that... Now, Greece's programme extension will expire in the end of February so some kind of solution must be found, otherwise we can't continue lending," Liikanen, also the governor of Finland's central bank, told public broadcaster YLE.
"I don't believe that one can hide from the realities in the economy," he said in an interview.
And then another hint from the ECB, this time from Vitor Constancio. As Bloomberg notes, "at the moment, Greece has a special dispensation from the ECB because it’s complying with a bailout program. That means its debt can be used in central bank refinancing operations even though it is rated junk. “There will be no surprises if we find out that a country is below that rating and there’s no longer a program that that waiver disappears,” ECB Vice President Vitor Constancio said at an event in Cambridge, England, on Saturday."
The question arose why when Greece already has undergone a Private Sector Involvement restructuring, i.e. a bankruptcy that however only impacted private entities and not official ones, such as the ECB, can't Greece have another debt haircut to which Liikanen responded that: "A significant debt restructuring has been carried out with private investors. The ECB cannot fund a state directly, which is what it would mean in this case."
Odd: because that is precisely what the ECB is doing with QE, when it monetizes any of a number of Eurozone deficits. To this Liikanen also had a quick response:
- LIIKANEN SAYS ECB ISN'T FINANCING EURO GOVERNMENTS' DEFICITS
Well, it is, but we'll let that slide for the time being. The bigger issue is that since the ECB directly holds tens of billions of Greek debt, any impairment on this debt would crush what the ECB has been saying from day one: that it can not suffer losses on the debt it has monetized or otherwise transferred over to its balance sheet. Such an impairment would immediately destroy Draghi's credibility, and promptly lead to furious screams from around the Eurozone as taxpayers suddenly realize all too well they are on the hook for funding the Eurozone's most insolvent members, first Greece and then everyone else who has already entered a toxic deflationary spiral. And since the ECB would finally be exposed for being Europe's "bad bank", the scramble to dump as much toxic exposure on Draghi would begin in earnest in the process launching the beginning of the end of the Eurozone.
One can almost see why Greece does think it has all the leverage.
That said, Greece now also has a countdown in which it can and will have to make a decision what to do with its leverage, and precisely 28 days until its very own D-Day which is now February 28, 2015 as per today's ECB threat.
So with February now shaping up to be an even more volatile month for Europe, and thus the world, than January and December (both of which closed red) here is the full schedule of events and what the "known unknowns are" in the next 4 weeks, courtesy of Deutsche Bank.
From George Saravelos' Update on Greece
It is worth bearing in mind that the timing, scope and commitment to the policy changes announced by Greek ministers is highly uncertain, not least because the legislative agenda is likely to be directed by the leadership team of the new government rather than individual line ministries. This still leaves plenty of uncertainty on the new government’s intentions. On the more negative side, the breadth of statements was so wide and the speed with which they were made so quick, that we now consider an extension of the February 28th program expiry date as a key date within the negotiation process: Europe and the Troika are very likely to request an explicit commitment from the Greek government to close the current mission review and not reverse previous policy. The precise form such a commitment would take is unclear at this stage, but our underlying assumption is that uncertainty around the new government’s policy intentions is so high, that Europeans will request assurances before proceeding with more in-depth negotiations over the program in Q2.
In turn, the above developments will likely have important implications for Greek bank financing at the ECB. Termination of the program on February 28th renders GGB-based collateral ineligible at Eurosystem refinancing operations, but still allows Greek banks to shift funding to Emerency Liquidity Assistance. However, ELA usage is under bi-weekly ECB review and is very likely to be on a rising trend over the next few weeks: to accommodate potential deposit flight; to absorb foreigners’ refusal to roll-over t-bills that are maturing; and to absorb fresh government t-bill issuance to finance upcoming debt repayments to the IMF and other obligations. These large needs make it likely that the availability of ELA usage is itself linked to program extension above.
All of the above then leaves three things that need to be clarified over the next few weeks.
First, under what conditions would the Troika be willing to extend the program and what form would this extension take? Our initial expectation was that a technical extension would have been offered to July followed by a successor ECCL program. Recent market developments and poor budget execution leave Greece’s ECCL eligibility an open question however, and it is possible that the Troika now only accepts program extension by a full year to coincide with the conclusion of the IMF program in March 2016. Such a large extension would be more difficult for the Greek government to manage domestically.
Second, does the ECB link Greek bank ELA provision to program extension as well? Given rising usage over the next few months, we would consider this an increasing possibility.
Third, what will the Greek government’s response to these conditions be? Public statements over the last 48-hours make it particularly difficult to envisage the government’s reaction function. On the one hand an offer of a one year extension and a written commitment to close the review would be particularly difficult for the government to manage domestically. On the other hand, the suspension of ECB financing of Greek banks would be exceptionally damaging to the economy.
Here is an indicative timeline of key events that will likely provide answers to these questions:
- Friday January 30th – Eurogroup President Dijsselbloem meets with the Greek finance minister Varoufakis and Deputy PM Dragasakis in Athens. A press conference will follow, with the meeting likely setting the tone of negotiations to follow.
- Sunday February 1st - Greek finance minister Varoufakis meets UK finance minister Osborne in London
- Monday February 2nd – Greek finance minister Varoufakis meets French finance minister Sapin in Paris Tuesday
- February 2nd - Greek finance minister Varoufakis meets Italian finance minister Padoan in Rome
- Wednesday February 4th-5th – Bi-weekly ECB review of ELA
- Wednesday February 4th – Likely t-bill auction to cover 1bn redemption on 6th
- Thursday February 5th - Greek parliament opens, elects new speaker of the House
- Saturday February 7-9th Government presents legislative agenda to parliament, vote of confidence midnight Monday 9th
- Wednesday February 11th – Likely tbill auction to cover 1.4bn maturity on 13th
- Thursday February 12th – European Council of EU Leaders, Tsipras likely to meet Merkel on sidelines
- Friday February 13th – Voting for new Greek President begins, EC Commissioner Avramopoulos most likely candidate as per various media reports, originating from New Democracy. Likely completed by second round on the following day requiring 151 MP majority
- Monday February 16th – Eurogroup where Greece likely to be top of agenda, conditions for extension of program to be made explicit by now
- Wednesday February 18th-19th- - Bi-weekly ELA review
- Saturday February 28th – Current EFSF program expires
In sum, developments and pressure on Greece have accelerated over the last few days, with a very large degree of uncertainty around both the Greek government’s and Troika’s position on how negotiations will proceed. We expect this to be ultimately resolved by a Troika request from the Greek side to commit to program completion and the broad contours of previously committed policy, particularly with regard to structural reform. In turn, program extension may itself be linked to ongoing ECB/ELA financing of Greek banks. The precise form this request takes and the Greek government’s reaction will ultimately determine the path Greece takes in coming weeks and months.
»
- 54420 reads
- Printer-friendly version
- Send to friend
- advertisements -
After Greece defaults their new marxist government will plan their economy to riches never before seen.
Where will they find the 'other people's money' to spend?
In theory, as much as you got in your wallet plus margin plus leverage should do it.
So far the new government plans to cancel the bulding of a goldmine so evil foreign capitalists will have to find refuge in saver parts of the world: http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/01/30/us-greece-politics-investment-idUSKBN0L31K820150130
bailout of Greece in 3,2,1.
Perspective folks, perspective...
America is in some 18+ trillion of debt, England is up about 1.6 trillion quid. We have given over our supra national ability to do fuck all about it over to the un-elected bureaucrats in Brussels. We have no say as neither do you lot about the way our countries are run or for that matter governed. Think on that.
Do you know what in these very strained times for all of us what my government has pressing on their minds? You would think these fucking imbeciles should be worrying about things like the 'National Debt', complicit, and far reaching child abuse scandals that run right to the very top of the English establishment, a 10,000% increase in 'Food Banks' right here in 'Bonny England', desperation and outright anger at the fucking mugs who were born to rule, Police corruption to the very core, basic public infrastructure that is falling apart, 'Zero Hour Contracts' that makes folks nothing more than slaves, and that pearler, kids in fucking debt up to their eye balls for their 'Education'.
Anyone of those could get public support couldnt they? And as the cunts they are, because my lot of fucking swines have given the power to govern away to Brussels, do you want to know what my bunch of child molesting, and if they aint busy fucking kids, they are busy covering it up, do you know what they are bothered about?? Any idea?
Smoking in vehicles. Seriously, smoking in vehicles? Never mind them abusing fucking kids, giving the Dog given right to govern your own affairs away, to have the child molesters in Brussels Dicktate that persecution of the smoking, driving, public at large is a higher priority??????
We have finally passed the rubicon of all known sense.
These cunts need hanging for the utter child molesting, nation wrecking, utter fucking bastards of shit splattered all over the face of humanity that they are.
Every fucking one of them is a fucking liability forced upon the populace of the world. Utter fucking cunts to a man.
;-)
100% agree.
It is that degree of insanity...that keeps me sane.
I look at the state of things, and I conclude that this is indicative of a system that is flailing in it's death throes...and that gives me a warm fuzzy feeling.
Mix,
I think what I like about your posts the most is that famous British penchant for wry understatement.
"Well done chappie, wut, wut?"
Shovelhead my friend,
There is no point splitting hairs my good man, just spit the cunt owt and see what goes from there.
Every action has an equal and opposite re-action, eh?
The child molesters are on the loose and running free amongst us, lets sort this owt then.
;-) No offence meant by the way...
:-)
Don't worry INTHEMIX, it will come to a head soon and like WW2 it will be good against 'Evil'.
What is happening today is "Evil" and we all see it for what it is, at least most of us on ZH. However we are a minority amoung the citizens as many are brainwashed still, until it hits home and they find big brother at their front door with bullet proof vests and armed to the teeth as the victims are 'suspect' for posting something on Feces Book.
These cunts need hanging for the utter child molesting, nation wrecking, utter fucking bastards of shit splattered all over the face of humanity that they are.
The US Congress and oval offfice inner circle makes your Brit gang look like choirboys.
Another reminder of why you are one of my all time favorite posters here.
Fuck me Blano,,
Thanks. The school of hard knocks tends to make people like me cynical as fuck. Been there, done that, got the Tee shirt. The child abuse will bring this game to end, they are all at it, aint that so NSA, GCHQ? Remind the cunts we know you cunts.
Take care mate
;-)
This is total shit:
A zero-hour contract is the name given to a type of contract, where the employer purports to have the discretion to vary the employee's working hours, usually anywhere from full-time to "zero hours". These clauses spread widely in the United Kingdom after the global financial crisis, although under UK labour law they are of doubtful legality because it undermines the employee's reasonable expectation to a stable income.[1] The employer typically asserts that they have no obligation to provide work for the employee.[2] The employee may sign an to be available for work as and when required, so that no particular number of hours or times of work are specified.[3] The employee is expected to be on call and receives compensation only for hours worked.[4][5][6]
88,
Welcome to their world, utter shit though it may be...
How much longer mate, have we to put up and make do? Bail the cunts owt and get treated like this, every, fucking, time?
The reckonings coming my friend
:-)
"exit NATO and signs a deal to give Russia and China military bases in the Mediterranean. "
Plus default on EU debt....
That would be a slap in the face for the EU and the ECB. Banksters you have your due.
The huge prize would be Chinese and Russian military bases in Greece, Spain and Italy.
ECB is bluffing.1
There will be no Grexit. Syriza has made this clear.
Podemos just had its biggest mass rally in Spain today.
The wind of change is breezing through Europe.
_________________________
1 Greece wins
It looks like Euro Zone is heading to an imminent collapse.
Tribalism.
Collapse, not so sure.
Paradigm shift, sure.
I'd love to see Greece tell the ECB to shove it up their ass, but I'll believe it when I see it. It would cause a lot of pain but they would get ovet it!
Fucking central banks destroy eveything in time. Most people/countries are scared to death of change. Except here in the USSA where we have "hope&change"
MF'ers
BRICSg baby!
Yes, as pointed out, the Russians and Chinese may move to ensure the stability of Greece's banks. That Nato thingy is a bit of a complication but Greece pulled out of Nato from 1974 to 1980 so there is precedent. Will be interesting to see which side moves first in planting a false flag to move Greece in one direction or the other.
Yes, stay tuned for some interesting developments. Paradigm Shifts are a bitch...
Greece has been 'defaulting' for about 800 years. Look at the Acropolis. That neighborhood is trashed worse than Detroit.
Now that was funny.
They can tell the EU FU adopt bitcoin, Issue their own drachmacoin and start arresting banksters on sight. done deal.
The corrupt crew from the EU are incapable of resolving the Greek
crisis , they think that the Troika had forced Greece to be slave of a priceless debt forever forcing 11 million people to bank slavery .
This is great opportunity for Russia and China to wreck for good the EUSSR and destroy its banks . Fantastic possible outcome !
The action , so far , of the EUSSR does non inspire faith in their ability to resolve future problems with Italy and Spain .
The principle that countries have to pay forever debt acquired through the fraud of the FIAT paper money , the interest rates , the rigged financial market with spread, Libor scandals , rigged share market , Forex scandal ........ that principle is going to be relegated to the history books .
There is much debate on ZH about whose fault it all is.
Remember the divide and rule strategy.
It is obvious they are working together in an unholy trinity:
Investment bankers, central bankers and politicians
They take in turns to bail each other out, impose austerity on the people and load taxpayers up with all the losses.
The unholy trinity cast:
Satan - Central Bankers
The Anti-Christ - Investment bankers
The False Prophet - Politicians
Extend and Pretend says Troika and You Can Die Another Day.
Am waiting in anticipation for the New Greek Finance Minister to OPEN UP THE BOOKS and to show us the REAL state of affairs - you know the ones that Goldman have put on ' Double Secret Probation ' since that fateful entry into Never Never Land.
Greece is the word is the time is the place is the moment . . .
"I don't believe that one can hide from the realities in the economy"
Really? It appears to be a global habit to me.
'Seemingly unaware of the consequences'. Like getting the jackboot of the EU/ECB off their throat.
Seems to me the common thread between Greece , Spain, Brazil, Venezuela, and every other bankrupt, fucked up country is bankers and politicians.
China isn’t going to do anything. Look to history. China is an isolation country. The ‘Great Wall’ is the most obvious sign.
Tyler told us, the Chinese sleep burrowed under their city.
Meet China's Morlocks: 1 Million Beijing Residents Live Undeground
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-12-08/meet-chinas-morlocks-1-million-...
yeah, and greece then to russia making it a satellite like the crimea. a satellite behind turkey. in one month.
wow, world chess speeding up.
my hope was not to experience war before i die
"my hope was not to experience war before i die"
...and mine was for the right one to come while I was young enough to participate meaningfully.
Tick-tock.
Financial blackmailing or kidnapping or both.
Hey Greece take notice. This could be you.
Draghi's got one of these in your future as I'm sure your visit in Rome next week will talk about the "possibilities" if you don't come through for the Leg Breakers with your property!
Sure hope Lavrov is doing more than cataloguing shit like this in the "White Book" ... Hell with moves from NATO like this who needs evidence from the downing of MH-17?...
World War III already started with these two missiles from Kiev!!!
Hasn't Vlad got an abundance of financial problems of his own?
It's not as bad as west paint it, Problems are internal, not external.
Yes whether to continue to sell his vast energy resources at knock-down prices and whether he can purchase enough gold in the market with his vast $$$$$ reserve chest.
Vlad does have abundance of financial problems, but the Russian people have put up with hardships that Americans can't even imagine.
A lot of those problems due to sanctions that the US and Europe put on him. Pay back is a bitch.
How much traction these new leaders get with this is the question. The policy may be right for Greece, but the cabalists don't play by those rules and they are gunning for fire sale privatizations.
I wonder if the cabalists are dusting off the compromised pediphile dossiers on these Greek politicians. Afterwards as these are presented as part of the discussion it is often amazing how quickly the tune changes. And if Boy Scouts are involved against these satanists avoid high places and dark alleys. The resistance shelf time may be short. God speed.
That is the plan for the US....
The Oligarchs want a fire sale of the prize pieces.
By fucking Dog himself, you fucking 'Central Planners' are going to be fucking held accountable for the shit you have left your fellow man under.
Nobody leaves this joint alive, not one of us... Only doing your fucking job is an excuse that was never allowed you fucking cunts.
Where the fuck has people in the governments humanity gone? Up their arse and owt their mouths.
Cunts
:-)
We all know how this will end if Greece doesn't tow Brussel's line. For the good of the Greeks and Euro they will be forced to send in the Euro Police which will probably be NATO, bomb the shit out of a few unsuspecting souls, blame it all on Russia and WW3 here we come as the idiots managing this fiasco do not know different and have no souls to account for.
Like Forrest Gump says, "Evil is as Evil does" :)
Hey, if you go to the UK, they have Pounds and Euros available.
Why not bring back the Drachma and continue to use the Euro?
Hungary got out of the clutches of IMF and so can the Greeks!
hmmm... ok, I cracked it....the solution to all the world's problems starting with Greece.
INDIVIDUAL
Situation - no net assets, paying no taxes on incomings of $25,000, spending of $30,000 (net outgoings of $5,000) a year with debt of $120,000 and interest on debt of $10,000 a year -likely in poverty forever and a permanent headache to those trying to get their money back plus a life as a debt serf with no hope.
Solution - go bankrupt, reduce expenses to $15,000, get principal of debt written down to $30,000 (75% haircut) and repay debt and interest over five years at $10,000 a year ($50,000 of debt and interest) whilst training for a job that pays more than $25,000 income.
Impact, people who lent money lose all of their $120,000 capital and get back $50,000 (same as $10,000 per annum in interest for five years).
Result - individual moves from being a drain on the country, to paying taxes on something more than income of $25,000 after five years. Lenders learn not to lend/invest badly.
COUNTRY (in % GDP terms)
Situation - taxes 25% of GDP, spending 35% of GDP, deficit of 10% of GDP, government debt of 200%, interest on debt of 15% of GDP p.a., brain drain of "intelligentsia", no pricing power for goods and services produced, external factors and people in control of GDP - likely in poverty forever and a permanent headache to those trying to get their money back plus a life as a debt serf with no hope.
Solution - go bankrupt, split outstanding debt into “good” debt that is reasonable and can be serviced now and “bad” debt that is “odious” but needs some sort of resolution subject ability to repay. Reduce expenses to 20% (by over half) of GDP, get principal of debt written down to 50% of GDP (75% haircut), schedule interest on rump of “good” 50% of debt to GDP at 4% (debt servicing also down by 80% on good debt) which equals 2% of current GDP. Next work out affordable compensation for the 75% haircut (“bad” debt) - pay debt and interest over ten years of 3% per annum of GDP for ten years (ten year sum of 30% of GDP in debt and interest whilst reskilling (if needed) to replace emigrating "intelligentsia" in every sector. This lifts proportion in debt servicing from 2% for “good” debt to a total of 5% of GDP fr ten years and down to 2% after that, thus providing “light at the end of the tunnel”.
Impact – all sovereign nations (initially other PIIGS but then US, UK, Japan, Germany, France, Australia etc.) follow suit for the 50% debt to GDP plan by cutting spending so that it is 5% below taxes to repay “odious debt” portion, all investors take 75% haircuts (reducing benefits by 75% at the same time) and schedule sustainable “good” debt position and a schedule for repaying “bad” debt in an affordable way for ten years. Greece in this case stops turning to anarchy and regains self-respect.
Note: European sovereign/central bank accounting does not include interest in debt sustainability studies and note also that international accounting standards (for Europe, the US or Japan) do not require banks to mark loans made to anyone to market values or changing circumstances to borrowers, either better (post repayments and higher earnings to a better credit “score”) or worse (increasing debt and a lower income) – fundamental flaw in IAS and the reason we are in this global mess.
Outcome – abolition of central banks, fraudulent benefit claimants and crony capitalism, higher living standards, world peace and healthier people everywhere.
Voila!
Why can't the Greeks have their own money?
There must be a printing press somewhere in Greece where they can print the Parthenon on one side and a lithograph of Plato on the other.
Plato's daughter was married to Alexander the Great and, supposedly, Plato had a hand in Alex's assassination.
The Greeks might as well have their own money, who wants euros?
Yanis Varoufakis estimated that it would take years to establish a viable Greek currency. Even then, the Vulchers and HedgeHogs would front run it to zero. Not as easy as it looks.
I wish this wasn't so, but there is one glaring problem with the presented argument: nobody seems to care if a central bank is insolvent these days, particularly when the cenral bank in question has access to the printing press of a currency considered non-zimbabwean (read: the FED and the ECB).
Even if the ECB takes an impairment on Greek bonds, there is no guarantee whatsoever that the markets will give a shit and to top that off, the ECB can just... not take the impairment charge in the first place, at their own discretion.
Everybody knows the whole thing is a house of cards, but there is absolutely no way to point at a hypothetical future event and claim with certainty that "this one will topple over the whole thing". After all, we have been living in a make-believe mark-to-unicorns Absurdistan world for years already.
All true. We are in fact increasingly and progressively approximating MMT experimental extremism where the market is rendered completely irrelevant for bond purchases, and yeilds are irrelevant. Treasury gets whatever it wants conjured from the CB to service and monetise debts, and thus funds FY deficits. Which as we all know, don't matter anymore. In fact there are no actual US budgets, just US budget documents, as the national accounts are rendered effectively (and allegedly) meaningless.
Long subprime cardboard box housing accomodation.
"Mark to unicorns Absurdistan"....
diet Coke just came out my nose.
"Mark to unicorns Absurdistan"....
diet Coke just came out my nose.
The bottom line is that if Greece intends to stay in the Eusrozone, they will be forced to play ball with Germany and the Troika. The Greek people say they want to stay in the Eurozone. So there you are. The new govwernment will have to relent.
If, however, the new government tells the Troika to fuck off, has a weekend bank holiday and re-opens doors with a new drachma issue, then it is an entirely new gaime - one that will eventually see the destruction of the Eurozone, and perhaps even the European Union.
Until the majority of the Greek people are convinced that it is not in their interest to remain in the EU. It will take time.
I wonder if the Greek leadership reads ZH?
When their wifi gets sorted out they will.
"elections have consequences"
Greece has decided the only way to win is to not play the game. Good for them. We'll see what power the EU and ECB have when someone calls their bluffs. My guess is, not much. Will be interesting to see the ziocons without clothes, are they human or reptile?
I think it is quaint how many of you speculate on the progression of events in such a linear fashion, as though this game will be allowed to play out on it's own.
Mark my words...if the Greeks were to do anything other than that which fits into the PTB script, they will be dealt with. They'll drop a nuke on em if they have to. Sure, they'll say it was someone - or something - else, like ISIS or an asteroid...but if you think they will just allow these upstart, piece-of-shit, dirty, dumb, CHATTEL to undo what they have been working toward for centuries...you are deluded.
Don't get me wrong...I am all for the Greek stand against the machine - it is right, and it is necessary - somebody has to kick things off. But TPTB have learned a thing or two since the Boston Tea Party.
Old Chinese proverb: "business is war".
New Globalbankster proverb: "banking is war".
ECB, shaft it up ur arse.
I like how the main consideration in all our public discourse today is:
"Is the financial sector going to remain solvent?"
Now in Greece where you have a social and humanitarian disaster going on, homelessness, suicides, defeated morale, a general crashing of social capital. The thing that still matters most is: "Are these banks going to live through the night?"
They are threatening Greece to be the first post-financial economy; Greece is going to have to walk the same plank that we have all postponed walking, that we all should have walked. Their punishment is that they get to 'go first'. Of course, I dont have a crystal ball about these things, but it could be a great blessing or a terrible curse. Mostly it would depend on whether they are allowed to print sovereign debt to return themseles to normal or whether they have to take on yet more predatory IMF servitude-loans, slavery-loans.
As long as we make human considerations last, as long we consider our fellow humans to be just another talking point, and the functioning of some abstract financial beast of a system to be the foremost thing (not even that, but just its hydra-headed banking parasite sector!). The priorities of our ruling classes are clear.
Sovereign debt is what got them where they are. You can't spend more than you earn forever.
Only the reserve currency printers have a longer shelf life than the rest and that can looks like it has a bulge in it.
Negative interest rates are popping up everwhere just in time for Greece to get self extiguishing loans as a bribe to stay in the union. Tsipras has the Russian put. Tsipras for the time being owns the EU. Greeks have moved from slaves to Kings almost over night.
The first act of parliment should be establishing a silver drachma currency.
I for one, would be glad to send them 1 oz of my shiny to help back a new 'silver' Drachma.
This is a tough one...
Take the money, wash it through the insolvent Greek banks and send it back to the various Euro creditors while strangling whats left of the Greek economy.
Or,
Repudiate the debt and allowing the crooked banks who borrowed it, to fund the crooked Govt. that spent it to fail, and freeing the Greeks from onerous debt and let them go back to being Greek with the Drachma.
Since being Greek in the present incarnation requires an unlimited line of credit, maybe they could learn to be less Greek without one. Maybe there would be a lot less corruption if there was no money to fund it.
Tough going either way but the latter leads to freedom.
I'd go for #2.
funk angela merkel fuck the banks . make the deadline tomorrow u piece of shit. fuck him. greece rememer sparta say fuck u to the eu. the whole thing is bullshit. borrowing money to pay back money already owed. fuck that default on the fucking debt and end this bullshit sharade. start acting like men. suffer for a year or two and be healed or take the bullshit agreement and suffer forever. be men and say fuck u to the eu
the new government is renegotiating the terms, nobody is going anywhere (bernankes QE is enough to buy and sell the entire island using the money from his petty cash drawer) BTFD....
and one other thought every month buy some gold buy some fucking gold and silver that should be the foundation stone of your new country.
Could Greece be Ukrained ?
Yes.
Troika felt a great disturbance in the Farce
Negotiating 101.
If a scenario is inevitable but not in your favour, your best course of action is to force the timetable of events and gain some means of control over an uncontrollable situation.
I am tired of the foreplay. I want a Grexit and default within 4 weeks time.
Enough of this cock-tease - pull the pin, leave the ECB, and do it ffs.
As much as I want Greece to not take any more euros and the Germans to not give then any, I don't think it matters. The powers that be will make sure that greece takes the money or there might be "some falling asteroids hitting greece". The euro-pissings don't have the money but ole yellen does - and besides, throwing billions around is what the eccles building does and who can keep track of all of that moeny? This is all some sick kubiki theater designed to give us ZH types a little hope only to have it taken away again. We will be right some day but not this february.
New Greek president a year from now: "we nationalized some folks" Shiiiiittttttt
just drive them into BRICS' arms...
It is really very simple: the Illuminati built a rabbit trap (in the BRICS alliance) that looks like a nice, safe hole to hide from danger. Now they are beating the bushes (with the Western powers) to drive the rabbits toward the trap.
Excerpted from redefininggod.com
The BRICS were the brainchild of Goldman Sachs:
http://www.goldmansachs.com/our-thinking/archive/archive-pdfs/build-bett...
Thanks to Ken @ redefininggod.com for the data
Greece should pursue legal action against low level corrupt politicans that abbetted the acceptance of unrepayable debt, under statutes of fraud. Pursue action against Goldman Sachs for similar fraudulent misrepresentation.
Banks represent themselves as professionals with the presumption of skill in underwriting risk. Failure to underwrite the debt risk properly leads to default. Risk of default is the bankers risk of failure. Apologies for the following rant: FAIL U FUCKS!
They have 50 billion to spend on silver for their new money. Swap lines to the brics, jubalee and ouzo's all around. Let the trioka eat fiat and take a big breath of the new world odor.
C'mon Greece, stir the shit pot and see what happens...
Finance Minister Varoufakis to Eurogroup President Dijsselbloem:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T59x5o8wS6Y
the best thing Greek banks could do now is to BORROW AS MUCH FROM ECB AS THEY CAN and then on Feb 28 walk away :D
Robin Williams, RIP, gave a revealing explanation years ago on tv about the difficulties and threats that ensued when he told his drug dealer that he had quit using, and buying, for good.
If I can find the YT video I will send it to Alexis: he's up against much worse when he has to deal with Dijsembowellm.
Every time Dragi opens his pie hole arrest a banker. When Smerkel opens hers hang one. The kiss principal.
No BS. Arrest a banker. Everything to date has been sidestepping arresting of bankers. Every honest person on the planet would be a big fan of any place where bankers were not above the law.
"I don't believe that one can hide from the realities in the economy," he said in an interview.
Indeed you fucktard.
Suck it up EU bitchez
However it goes , I wonder what happens to 112.4 tons of Greek gold?
If Greece listens to the EU, their gold will have a very comfortable pied-a-terre right next door to the Ukrainian gold in Palm Beach.
No reasons for fear; these Greeks are not bearing presents.
Varoufakis will only give a modest demonstration to show how money created from thin air can go up in smoke, all by itself.
I love ultimatums sp?. Somebody should yell, "It's a trap!"
ecb: "STEP BACK ONTO THE SINKING SHIP NOW, BOY...OR ELSE"
greece: "AHH, GO FUCK YOURSELVES!"
Its interesting that the fin min Varoufakis co-wrote a book on game theory. Plus he blogs which is awesome. I see this administration as a potential fresh change to the demented status quo, although only more time will truly tell.
More of this is needed in other countries. The rotten system needs to be systematically challenged.
Western central banks are in trouble. Money used to be created with abslutely no input cost. Times are changing. Bribes (INPUTS) to the market to accept the created out of thin air money makes them unprofitable.
Tick tock.
Not "D Day,' "B Day." As in "Bail-in."
The problem I see for Greece is that may die of its own internal chaos well before any external chaos it might be hoping to create.
To coin a phrase: "Fuck the EU."
Amazing. Traditionally history is written by the victors: the EU however has authorized Liikanen to re-write history as it is taking place.
the EU retards love to threaten people.
it hasn't worked very well with GR or with RU.
stand tall GR. they are all paper tigers.
Here is why the EU and it's ECB must quickly crush Greece and put them back on their austerity and debt repayment schedule. Spain, with 1 trillion in Euro debt has a new political party under cover of "the new left", who are now rising fast in all the polls and who seek to end debt slavery and demand that any part of the 1 trillion Euro debt that was used as bank bailout money NOT be paid. I do not know what % this would be, but the initial policy of the these people is to void all debts that we added to the Public Debt as part of bank rescues. I assume this is large.
The threat of these folks winning the next rounds of Spanish elections is HIGH! The EU and ECB, if they can destroy Greece quickly will show the Spanish that voting is a dead end and that no new political party can or will be able to void any part of the national debts.
Spain, as I say, is too big to fail and now to big to bail. The EU can not afford a 1 trillion Euro default, this would lay waste to banks all across the Euro zone.
So, Greece may be small, but only a fool would discount how important this battle is. Yes it is about tiny Greece, but REALLY it is about Massive Spanish debt. Spain is on the voting agenda, the people must be shown that voting is useless, that voting in no longer a vaild wat to change government policies.
The power resides in the "Brussels Supreme Soviet" of "The EU Soviet Socialist Republics" and their organ of absolute power, the ECB. Those who defend the EU have grown very silent around here, all their praise for this great institution seems to have dried up. The support of their cherished EURO and tales of how the Euro has allowed Europe to prosper are rarely being posted around here any more. I wonder why? How do you defend this EU system I wonder? Will they fall back to their position that "all will be well when the political union of a United States of Europe" are finalized? I would rather call that coming entity "The E Union of Societ Socialist Republics". A Soviet of Bankers, using their version of financial terrorism, the ECB, to act as their ultimate agent of slavery.
The EU offers now only debt slavery and open borders. Wow! That is some future for Europe.
I like that last line of your Jack Burton. It conjures up an image of a stake on German ground with chains extending to all other European nations around it.
Some details on the rising strength of the anti-EURO-debt Spanish Podemos party, from Mish:
http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2014/11/podemos-economic-manifesto-calls-for.html
Nice. To summarize: this leftist party wants a Spanish central bank which will immediately and concomitantly monetize an exploding public sector.
The EU has made a powerful enemy in the past few months; not only the Greek people or the Spanish people but especially the Russian people. And Paul Craig Roberts’ last few lines in his recent article is that what may well pull the Greeks out of their crisis is loans from Russia.
"but the initial policy of the these people is to void all debts that we[re] added to the Public Debt as part of bank rescues."
Hmmm ... why doesn't that sound bad? [thinking TARP ... ]
What about France? Le Pen cheered Syriza on. If the EU crushes Greece, it will crush the dreams of the Podemos supporters in Spain. But Le Pen will probably gain even more support because people will realize that there is no way out of debt slavery while remaining within the EU. It seems like there is no good option for the EU except to somehow shut Syriza up, perhaps with some kind of compromise?
If Syriza fails, or is crushed, then the next step will be the emergence of the far right ultra-nationalists. The people are angry, and will not back off, they will escalate to the next steps, and their rage will make them very, VERY receptive to fascist messaging. Germany knows this, they lived through it and know how it goes. Merkel and Co. will end up wishing they had made a deal with the 'leftists'...
The fight will not stop with the destruction of Syriza, and I sure hope they realize this. They may win this battle, but ultimately will lose the war, very badly.
At least Syriza WANTS to negotiate. You start getting the Le Pen types winning elections, and there won't be any more pretense of cooperation. It will be over, and we will have fascist governments taking power.
Instead of offers to negotiate, they will just round the bankers up and throw them into camps, if they don't slaughter them first.
And Europe will see bloody revolutions, and eventually war.
otoh
Maybe that's what Syriza wants the EU and the West to think.
It is exactly what we instructed Poroshenko to say about a truce and ceasefire.
Perhaps Syriza wants to negotiate the same way Ukraine wants an end to bloodshed
ponders whether the US is using Europe as a false flag for its own debt nightmare and unsustainable fiscal position..
europe and the US have similar deficits, but the US has 30% more debt and similar distributions of basket cases and those who have robbed them to pay themselves spread across the nation
http://ieconomics.com/government-debt-to-gdp-european-union-united-states
truth is, finger pointing is akin to a hostage nominating another hostage to be beheaded
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1voj6H8CHY
What stops the Greeks from using German banks? And other than state pensioners,public employees, and clearing ISIS oil trades...... who uses Greeek banks?
Must...Save...The...Freeshit...Army
If Goldman were smart it would start backing off the plunder and sharing the power and start reversing some of the takeovers. It’s like Louis XVI, he could have helped his people and he might have avoided the guillotine. He tried, somewhat, but the Queen and all her followers, his brothers and his courtiers dissuaded him.
Financial advisor Turgot’s warning to the king to stand firm became prophetic: “Do not forget, Sire, that it was weakness that brought the head of Charles I to the block.”
Goldman is now painting a giant target on its back. It is fast becoming the core of the criminal crisis. And as such it will be the victim of the people’s wrath.
It finally gets down to a creature with a heart, and all you need do is just hit the heart.
Goldman is Rothschild's enforcer. When Goldman is gone, Rothschild is toothless.
The Rothschilds have many more than just Goldman at their beck and call, including with not just financial terror weapons, some with real military assets. This empire has been growing and consolidating for 250 years.
And a full audit of the Greek debt may well provide the proof needed to nail Goldman. After all, it was THEM that helped cook the books to hide the true financial situation in Greece, so as to get them into that damned Euro. Which they apparently needed in order to 'launder' the money that was ACTUALLY going to bail out the banks, NOT help Greece. (They couldn't bail them out directly, it would have enraged the taxpayers-they HAD to run it through the Greek banks to make it look like Greek 'aid'.)
Make no mistake about it...should such proof ever come to light, there will be no escaping the consequences. Every other entity that ever dealt with Goldman would start going over their books very carefully, and the accusations will begin to pile on.
It just takes that first guy to do it.
Who here would not love to see a banker in handcuffs sporting a first class black eye at his trial?
What happened to the German bank line that Grexit was manageable???
That bullshit is starting to honk!
We all know how this all eventually plays, whether Tspiras starts the final death fall or not. And I hope he does have the balls to stand firm.
What will be of utmost importance going forward is that TPTB are not allowed to propagandise the blame for the shitstorm that is past the tipping point.
This is the fault of The Banksters, not the Greeks.
Goldman Sachs is our enemy not Tspiras. They hoodwinked this charade in Greece in the first place. We must not allow them to get away with it.
Why wait... ? Do it sunday night . . deal with the Russians . . . IMF wants your land .
STEP1
Use Greek army to take control of printing press in Greece.
STEP2
Bankrupt Europe while loading up on gold to mint Gold Backed Drachmas
STEP3
? Profit
Long molotov cocktails. They should use the Finnish recipe from the winter war.
Varoufakis, is a pro supporter of the Blockchain & Bitcoin.
Greece will become a major hub for crypto..... very soon ;)
P.s we are witnessing a paradigm shift in Europe.
http://fortruss.blogspot.com/2015/01/europeans-putin-is-your-last-hope.h...
So, if one is against austerity, against the big criminal banksters, you're branded a lefty, a communist...?
http://rt.com/news/228223-podemos-mass-rally-spain/
Now it will get more interesting:
White House Is Willing to Become Mediator Between Greece and EU - See more at: http://greece.greekreporter.com/2015/01/31/white-house-is-willing-to-bec...
let's see
Greece give the ECB an ultimatum. Give us the bailout without any terms or we leave NATO and take offers from Russia and China.
Totally default Greece and I'll send you tree fiddy, american ;).
I am surprised that you guys missed something on your European radar screen and that is the ESM, the European Stability Mechanism. An entity with a bank license but without any public control, its manager immune from prosecution and not liable to anyone. They can provide the money Greece wants, for free, if need be permanently. Tsipras might like that since ultimately the German tax payer would be on the hook.
Sure, but once Greece gets something from ESM, all countries will queue up for some help. Sooner or later. Will US then step in and bail out everyone? TTIP anyone?
Stay short EUR/USD.I'm seeing below parity now.Gold will be climbing in Euros and will be in high demand.
Long popcorn....
Strange how only 2 days after the election CNN reports:
http://www.cnn.com/2015/01/25/europe/greece-terrorism-hub/
Take that as a warning Greece as I expect we shall see an "out of the blue" Jihadi terror attack in Athens very soon if you don't start "playing" along; someone (US/EU/?) wants Tsipras to remember what happened to Hollande after opening his mouth and rocking the boat recently, because straight after we saw "shazaam" Hedbo happens, Astana meeting between Putin, Merkel, Hollande and Poreshenko is cancelled, new sanctions proposed instead.
ding ding ding
for Hollande, Hedbo, and Remember the Mistral.
A Jihadi attack on Greece at the very moment would raise doubts on any conformist human beeing - except the EUrofiles (thinking of it: the term 'human beeing' already raises doubts with regards to EUrofiles)
Subsitute Islamic terrorism for communism.
Jihad = Gladio 2.0
Just say NO to a False Flag terrorist attack on Greece if they wont play ball with the Bankers///eh?
The pants-down-who-has-the-larger-dick-moment is just about upon us.
Some have a Grower, not a shower.................Time will tell.
Greece, you'd be better off suffering in the short term and thumbing your nose at them in the long term.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/31/podemos-spain-austerity-ral...
100,000 march in Madrid.
Love the smell of contagion, smells like victory.
MIght be heresy on this site. Don't know. But perhaps it is time to recognize that the real problem is that the political and economic powers that be have lead us into a free trade world that ONLY benefits them. Free trade amongst economies that are relatively equal probably is OK. Free trade between an economy with a large middle class and another with a large pesant class is probably not OK..
Maybe the whole thing with China for instance is wrong. Maybe we (the west) cannot trade with China until they have grown their middle class internally themselves. But I am sure that the powers that be will tell me how uninformed and racist I am because I don't understand how unemploying people in the west so that their jobs can be done by someone making a dime an hour in a third world county can produce that same product.
I have a question for the great and the good. Who in the end buys all of the shit that is produced? .01% of the population who has all of the money will not be able to buy it all no matter how overindulgently they live.
ask wal-mart...
the 99.9% buys "stuff" that either degrades over two to three years or is replaced by the next "hot idea" that occurs after two to three years..
consumerism (me, me, me) = create and recycle.
countries that don't recycle 50 times todays GDP in scrapped goods are headed for interviews with the seven horseman of the acrapolypse...
look around; some 40 billion nappies are sold every year, cars (80m), lcd tvs (50 million), fridges (20 million), mobile phones (400 million) etc...the world demands 400 milion of each every year - these have shelf lives of a few years maybe a little more...
where have the 200 billion nappies gone and where have c. 5 billion redundant cell phones gone? we can see what happens to cars (scrap yards, land fills)
some say as many as 2 milllion-the 100,000 is a police measurement-who ALWAYS lowball anti establishment protest numbers
So Greece sides wih Russia, repudiates its debt and pulls the plug on the EU.
Could those who champion decentralized govt hope for more on this move?
Bonds are no more sancrosant than stocks; it is important to remember that evey loan includes two sides. Sometimes business deals just don't work out and the lender has to take a loss. This potentially could show that the fiat money system the EU offered didn't really lend anything to anybody of value and threatens to pull the entire fiat money system down.
About time.
What could end up funny is if Russia loans Greece some of the US treasuries they hold. Then the greeks could pay off their debt and the russians skirt sanctions that have been emposed. That could hit those who screwed the system up in the first place. That could turn the American Population against those that hold the reigns. The World turns....ulcers evrywhere.
If the bankers demand war.....Say Hell No, We won't go.
This is indeed becoming very interesting. From a negotiating perspective, setting the deadline at Feb. 28 is a poor tactic, since Greece has already said it wants to either renegotiate or chuck the entire structure and it certainly doesn't want another round of funding.
Essentially, by staking out Feb. 28, besides being obvious, the Troika has left Greece with no options, i.e., play ball or, or, or, what?
Will the EU kick Greece out of the EU if they don't pay, or don't accept a refunding? Is that it? From Greece's perspective, that stance allows them time to seek alternatives, and, they have the upper hand, in that if they accept funding from, say, Russia, they could say the EU forced their hand, which, in reality, they did.
The Greeks now have the luxury of telling the EU to just sit and spin, wait while we make other plans, since you obviously want to set a deadline which we do not wish to keep.
Greece will exit the EU. Then Spain, Portugal, Italy. Fine. Put up border patrols and institute strict travel fees. You want to come to Italy, 200 Euros. Greece, same, etc. Show the rest of the EU your balls.
It's all going to end in tears, eventually, just a matter of the timing. Sooner seems to be better, especially from the position of the Greeks, Spaniards, Italians, who have overspent and suffered. Default is a bitch, but necessary to expunge the bad debts and malinvestments.
Bring it. Just for the heck of it, isn't 6 years long enough for a bull market? The Dow closed within 100 points of marking a change in primary trend (the number is 17,068.87) from bull to bear. The Transportation average has already rolled over, so the Dow just needs to confirm and we're all set for at least two years of downward trend in prices on the Dow (and other indices).
Now, would it surprise me if TPTB, like the Fed and the PPT, violate even Dow theory and close under and magic number, only to subsequently defraud it by making a new all-time high? Not in the least. In fact, it may indeed happen, since the Fed and the inside manipulators (paging Kevin Henry) know no bounds to their thievery and skulduggery, but, I'll keep my money on any close below 17,068.87 on the Dow before making a new high and the sanctity of Dow theory.
Monday ought to be fun. Good timing, right after the Super Bowl, when everybody's hung over and talking about the big game instead of paying attention.
Stay sharp, my friends.
Merkel and co cannot be sleeping too well at the moment lol.
The EU has some rapidly expanding problems.
It's her own fault.
She knew Poroshenk snored like a pig before she got under the sheets with him.
The question now is whether the US State Department and CIA can successfully carry out a coup within four weeks.
A Greek Maidan against the actual government doesn't sound convincing, but I am sure our 'free' media will find some theories to explain it us stupid white men.
As they say in Iceland..."let them fail"