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Socialist Exceptionalism
"In the minds of the statists, "Government Works Better" and 'things' work at the surface; but at the core, it's a disaster... The Americans that look to the government to 'save' them - and even gleefully thank the government for helping bail them out - fail to realize that it was the government that f##ked them in the first place..."
Simply put, "debt-financed socialism and corporatism isn't working" and a day of reckoning is coming...
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Look to China for guidance. They are the inventor of paper and money printing after all.
They also hold the paper on much US real estate. Or think they do.
Greek's socialists are learning that the only way for socialism to continue is for Facism to follow. It is not 'inevitible - it is mandatory. Socialism in the long run must, eventually, have a facist government that mandates and protects their income confiscation. The problem with the Greeks is, they want socialism to continue but don't want to accept being governed by a facist state. Problem is - it can't and won't work.
jb
exactly why isis is having a field day in the fertile crescent?
guess who promoted fascism in the me with the ww1 mandates,... and brought about a feudal system after ww2? of course we luv dictators and tyrants, but how dare you mention the word communism[?]
if you guessed a democratic west, you'd be correct
Democracy also tends to Fascism, just look at the USAA.
American Progressive Manifesto
It is self-evident that government has the power (or should have the power) to implement any good idea, and that when we are all on the same page, everyone benefits, but now, let’s think for ourselves, and explain why.
Effective government is necessary for the health and prosperity of everyone today and for future generations. A threat to government is thus a threat to the health and prosperity of everyone.
Government has some powers delegated from the power of individuals, such as the power to borrow and spend, and government also has unique powers that may not be legitimately exercised by individuals independently of government, such as the power to kill or to tax other individuals. Government thus has these unique powers, not because they were delegated by individuals who do not possess such powers, but because those individuals agreed to be bound by government.
We know that 97% of individuals, if given the choice, would agree to be bound by government rather than live without the benefits of government. Every individual instinctively knows that his life without government would be short, nasty, and brutish.
Although we would like to grant the 3% the right to live without government, many of those reactionaries would not get vaccinated, and many more would possess weapons. Therefore, it is self-evident that the health and prosperity of the other 97% dictate that all 100% of individuals must agree to be bound by government.
Everyone must be bound by government at all times, even when they disagree – especially when they disagree. Otherwise, Rule of Law would devolve into chaos and threaten the health and prosperity of everyone. No one can be above the law.
While we Progressives do not always agree with each other, we always accept the authority of government because effective government requires that 100% accept the authority of government. Anyone who does not accept the authority of government is thus a threat to the health and prosperity of everyone.
Some governments have committed atrocities in the past, but we will not let our government commit atrocities. However, individuals and businesses will always allow themselves to be ruled, and thus, if Progressives do not rule, then a worse faction would rule. Any other faction would be less effective and may even commit atrocities, and thus a threat to our rule is a threat to the health and prosperity of everyone. In other words, we are the good guys, in the vernacular, as it were.
Given that we are the good guys, and that we know we are right, then if we think for ourselves, we can deduce many other self-evident corollaries, such as the fact that it is OK to lie to maintain our rule. Such action is not only OK, but it is indeed noble. It is the Noble Lie advocated by Plato.
For all these reasons, it is thus legitimate for progressives to take any action up to and including killing any number smaller than a majority in order to maintain our rule. Obviously, if we had to kill a majority to maintain our rule, then our rule would not have been legitimate. We are people of principle after all.
More important than maintaining our rule is defending government itself. Government would be justified in killing a majority rather than letting anarchy prevail. Then, at least, the surviving minority would have the blessings of government.
More important than maintaining government and defending our rule is defending the future. For example, defending the planet is the most critical element of defending the future, and thus we would be justified in killing all but a tiny remnant of individuals if that were necessary to stop a threat to the planet, such as Global Warming, but of course, if it were possible to save the planet by merely sterilizing (instead of killing) all but a small remnant of humanity, then we would do that instead.
Another threat to the future is bad genes. In order to improve the human gene pool, it could be necessary to kill and/or sterilize all but small remnant of humanity. It should be self-evident that any such eugenics program should begin with those reactionaries who are least progressive.
By now it should be clear that only by our rule can everyone experience the full blessings of government; and though we mean to rule with benevolence, make no mistake, we mean to rule.
RE: original post -
Duhhhh
How can we ever run out of other peoples money?
Obamaphone Fraud: Over 13 Million Free Cell Phones Handed Out In 2014!
http://www.americasfreedomfighters.com/2015/01/29/obamaphone-fraud-over-13-million-free-cell-phones-handed-out-in-2014/
The trail of destruction left behind by these hard liners has no bounds.
The article had me a little confused there when it collided 'minds' & 'statists' in the same sentence
Take away the jobs, and everyone runs to programs, Welfare, Food Stamps....
Layoff / Closing List: http://www.dailyjobcuts.com
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Socialism works great as long as it is only for the wealthy.
Of course! The tax payer's job is to bail the wealthy out time and again. What a privilidge to be able to lobby Congress, have them pass a law that requires the tax payer shore up any derivative loss the rich may incur.
Socialism for the rich, capitalism for the poor. It's been said before.
Serious?
That is some MDB-level trolling he's doing there. He gets green from me.
The 3 percent exist precisely to shoot muthafu^*ers who write and believe that crap.
Thank you, thank you very mush.
If you are serious or sarcastic, I don't care.
About the dumbest words ever written, bar none.
Lol,
I almost gave The Onion credit for that post until I clicked the link.
we could easily drop the titles and put it this way...
...it is within the dark side of human nature to take advantage of an opportunity to personally gain by exploiting of the productivity of others involuntarily confiscated.
Socialism, check. Democracy, check. Fascism, check. Manhattan, check.
Sure, Vegas was built by skimming everyone but no one on the planet was forced to go to Vegas...THATs the difference. The above schemes only work when you can force confiscation...or the inverse, remove liberty and freedom of choice.
"A Republic ma'am, if you can keep it"
America was not intended to be a democracy. Things went downhill when women, blacks, and non-landowners got the rights to vote.
Sorry if that offends anyone.
The next nail in the coffin was direct election of Senators by the public instead of by state legislatures (usually just the upper chamber). This was the biggest wave in the erosion of state's rights preceding the usurpation of power by the federal government.
The global economic system is so messed up right now it's not even funny.
I'm pretty sure there is no such thing as Capitalism, Comunism or Socialism anymore.
Companies get huge government subsidies, people get social programs, and the governments pay for it by issuing debt that the Central Banks buy.
It's either time to have a big reset and fight it out in WWIII or shift to a new economic system that is sustainable for more than 60-70yrs before the same problems pop up again.
Socialism, fascism, corporatism, liberalism, conservatism, -ism, -ism.
It's just banksterism, using the other ism's to fuck us all over a barrel.
Governmentalism is the problem. Banksterism is just another version of it.
n.
the trend toward expansion of the government's role, range of activities, or power.
[1840–50]
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/governmentalism
detroit?
Should America Save Detroit?
A lifetime of education from America’s media elite, such as MSNBC, CNBC, NPR, PBS, the NYT, the Washington Post, CBS, NBC, ABC, and CNN, have given me the foundation and principles that empower me to think for myself and thereby figure out why we can’t let Detroit go bankrupt.
Detroit is too big to fail.
Republicans are turning Detroit into a plantation.
Don't blame the victims of greedy capitalists.
“To attack Detroit is to attack black.”
Only racists would oppose a bail out.
We are all in this together.
It takes a village (a government).
We have to move forward.
Somebody has to be in charge.
There is a Constitutional mandate to promote the general welfare.
Government rightly has the power to implement any good idea.
When we're all on the same page, everyone benefits.
Everyone has a right to good healthcare.
Everyone has a right to a living wage.
Everyone has a right to good nutrition.
Just think of it as reparations for slavery.
Do it for the children.
Do it for Trayvon.
What if it were Obama's kids?
What if it were your kids?
If it helps just one child, no cost is too great.
In a free-market, who would save a dying child?
It would be bad if George Bush did it, but we can trust Obama.
Obama is The One.
Obama! Give us our orders!
Only racists distrust Obama.
Don’t let Republicans make a liar out of Obama.
The alternative is chaos.
The alternative is anarchy.
What would Jesus do?
After all, Jesus would be a Democrat.
Detroit has done everything right. It has been ruled by Democrats and unions for 51 years, and ruled by black mayors for 49 years. It even has the 3rd highest income tax of any city in America. Therefore, the problems of Detroit must be part of a vast right wing conspiracy. As an example, consider how the internet has allowed the spread of right wing hate speech from people like this guy. He says stuff like:
No man has a right to the fruits of another mans labor.
Government dependency is the new plantation.
When we’re all free to pursue our own interests, everyone benefits.
In a free-market, children wouldn’t be dying.
It takes a village – but not a government.
Nobody has to be in charge.
The legitimate purpose of government, is to minimize government.
Sooner or later, socialists run out of other people’s money.
Individualism made America great.
The world is the result of our individual choices.
America is the least racist country in the world.
The myth of Obama is busted.
Progressivism = Liberalism + Fascism
Progressivism violates the Soul of Humanity.
You can instantly become the person you want to be.
Freedom is the Promise of Reality.
Now can you see the problem? These are the ideas on which America was founded, and we all know that America was founded on slavery. Such right wing hate speech is what scared all of the white people into leaving Detroit. It is like something out of Atlas Shrugged, in which the most productive people in America left the system and formed their own society. Therefore, the solution must come from the federal government because, while it is easy to leave a city, it would be much harder for people to leave the country, and Obama’s DHS would stop them if they tried – and rightly so.
What about when it is no longer Obama’s DHS? I know it is hard to imagine how America could elect anyone who is not a Democrat ever again – but that is why we need global governance, so that wealthy individuals cannot escape their debt to their country and to the world.
As you can see, a lifetime of education from America’s media elite have given me the foundation and principles that empower me to think for myself.
+100
Republicans are turning Detroit into a plantation.
I think they ran the last conservative out of Detroit about 50 years ago.
I'm sure there's some progressive republicans still around...but I'm not sure what the difference is between progressive republican and a socialist.
Cuz one gets up in the mornin, and one don't.
I like how we all "individually" prop up the wealthy.
Save Detroit? From who? Romney's Dad with the approval of President Johnson incited the riots that burnt the city in the 60's. If anybody or anything is to be saved it is to be saved from the government not by the government.
My understanding is the Fed holds the paper. Also since bonds are now just CUSIPs the rules are subject to change and can be back dated.
The art of modern statism is to develop a "solution" then create the problem, promote it via a state run press until the sheep bleat for the state to find a "solution"
Withdraw you consent
"Exceptionalism" is a fascist ideology, it is not socialism.
"Exceptionalism" wasn't a fascist ideology to begin with. It's not even an ideology.
"tenet" then. But you got 'im, sort of.
Apparently, government is the only problem where the solution is more of itself.
That's priceless.
Until the food runs out. Egypt as an example. China may be next. The State of California is effectively killing millions in the name of the snail darter.
Too many takers, not enough makers. Simple as that.
we're long past the industrial revolution, and lightyears from the agrarian heady-tymes...[?]
we are a sub'd-out NAFTA/CAFTA/WTO free-trading collective-bargaining country of corporist doctrinairians, nowholding the lower/upper middle-class hostage. american jobs to sell overseas and for the useless-takers as you call them to peddle their imported wares on slave labor,now hitting the exceptional shores of the ussa [f]taker's since slick-willy onward.
as joe 'asshole' biden says, yes, the last six years have been hard on joe sixpack that only ask to be employed, even for a sawbuck an hour *(enough to pay for obmacare on the american plantation! of prosperity.
Maker's...
All the rich do is EXTRACT wealth, never "create" it. From reading everything on here...only the Fed creates wealth out of thin air.
so, was marx's correct?
Yes.
Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.
Groucho Marx
'anachronism on steroids'
http://www.rationalrevolution.net/war/marxism.htm
I wouldn't belong to any club that would have me as a member.
--Groucho Marx
I think "club" can also be applied to the concept of "nation". Get your mind out of the box of little red lines on a map. I'm going permanent tourist/Earthling.
Don't forget those quarterly estimated tax filings.
"I'm going permanent tourist/Earthling."
This ex-American has chosen to become stateless. An interesting interview with him: http://www.activistpost.com/2014/12/how-to-renounce-your-us-citizenship-...
"debt-financed socialism and corporatism isn't working"
Now we're getting somewhere.
nmewn, we are surely headed in the same direction as before, as well as faster than ever ...
The language in that sentence is so profoundly self-contradictory, and therefore deeply confusing, as to provide no basis for better understanding. Instead, that language repeats one of the most favourite stupid things parroted in American politics, which is to blame "socialism," in ways which have practically NOTHING in common with the basic dictionary definition of "socialism."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism
"Socialism is a social and economic system characterised by social ownership of the means of production and co-operative management of the economy."
To describe the American system as "socialist" is a ridiculous abuse of language, which is extremely common on Zero Hedge, for instance, that is done by Martin Armstrong, who has written some of the most read articles. Even some of the Tylers tend to drift into that sort of abuse of language, as well as many others who post comments.
In order to understand the American political economy it is IMPERATIVE to focus on the "debt-based ... corporatism" WITHOUT indulging in the bullshit to blame "socialism." However, it is practically impossible to have any rational political debates in the public spaces in America, due to the degree to which there have been deeply entrenched systems of legalized lies, backed by legalized violence, controlling the American political economy for more than a Century, so that almost all the language used is bullshit, drowning in more bullshit!
The problems have constantly been mislabeled, pretty well as much as possible. E.g., the so-called "Progressives" were actually the regressive, and so on and so forth, throughout American political history. That is how and why the video embedded above ends up being such a bizarre miss-mash, and mixed up combination of words, to result in finally being nothing more than the typical work of reactionary revolutionaries, namely, more than 90% relatively good analysis of some of the social facts, followed by less than 10% at the end of the promoting bullshit "solutions," because the original analysis never went deep enough.
Unfortunately, it is practically a waste of time to try to point out to people who misuse that label "socialism" that they are doing so, because they will adamantly continue to do so nevertheless. That strange short-circuit as the language of "debt-financed socialism and corporatism isn't working" is more likely to be parroted than properly criticized:
PRIVATELY CONTROLLED BANKS ARE DOING THE "DEBT-FINANCING." To have that as the adjective that qualifies the noun "socialism" is a self-nullifying contradiction of the meaning of those words. Furthermore, the rest of the phrase combines "socialism and corporatism," which is another self-nullifying contradiction of the meaning of those words.
The established systems ARE "working" to do what they were designed to do, which is make rich people richer. All of the rest of the bogus "socialisms" were distractions from the important issues, namely, who controlled the public "money" supply. Since big banks are corporations, that is the most important form of "corporatism" which more accurately describes the American realities.
John Perkins' book "Confessions of An Economic Hit Man" popularized the label "corporatism."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confessions_of_an_Economic_Hit_Man
However, he was another reactionary revolutionary, who presented the typical pattern of more than 90% relatively good analysis of some facts, followed by 10% bullshit "solutions," due to his analysis not going deep enough. Perkins presents the typical ways that people will correctly discuss how the real political economy operates according to the principles and methods of organized crime, but then, collapse back to bullshit "solutions" based on the same old false fundamental dichotomies and related impossible ideals, at the end, in ways which contradict everything that was previously correctly analyzed.
American society appears to be terminally sick and insane, due to the degree that there is almost nothing but ORGANIZED CRIME & CONTROLLED OPPOSITION. The video above was another example of controlled opposition, because it presents such an utterly bullshit conclusion that "debt-financed socialism and corporatism isn't working" ... which statement is full of self-nullifying contradictions, (not the least of which is those systems ARE working GREAT to make the richest people become way richer!)
Human beings and human civilizations operate as entropic pumps of energy flows, which are deliberately misunderstood by the biggest bullies' bullshit in the most backward ways possible. Since the biggest bullies' bullshit world view so totally dominates American society, it is practically impossible for most Americans to recognize that there is practically nothing in American politics other than ORGANIZED CRIME & CONTROLLED OPPOSITION.
As an author that is republished on Zero Hedge under the name Cognitive Dissonance has written: "The absolute best controlled opposition is one that doesn't know they are controlled." That applies to virtually all of the reactionary revolutionaries who correctly reveal the degree to which the government has become the biggest form of organized crime, controlled by the best organized gangs of criminals, BUT, then propose bogus "solutions" based on the impossible ideals of stopping that.
IT IS NO MORE POSSIBLE TO STOP HUMAN CIVILIZATIONS FROM OPERATING ACCORDING TO THE PRINCIPLES AND METHODS OF ORGANIZED CRIME THAN TO STOP HUMAN BEINGS FROM BEING ENTROPIC PUMPS OF ENERGY FLOWS.
Another way to perceive that is to turn to the American Progressive Manifesto (linked in comments posted above by BigJim.) In order to understand that better, one has to appreciate the degree to which we are living inside of a Bizarro Mirror World, or Wonderland Matrix, where those who were labeled as "Progressives" were actually regressive.
The so-called "Progressives" have actually been carrying through the international banksters' agenda in America. It is the almost total triumph of the international banksters being able to capture control over the government that was the SOURCE of the current problems in America. That has almost nothing to do with "socialism," except as a kind of language trick, where the fish rotted from the head to the tail. As Ron Paul has correctly pointed out, the "welfare/warfare" state could not exist without the public "money" supply being created out of nothing as debts, by privately controlled banks.
The illusions of superficial "socialism" were manifested inside the overall context of DEBT SLAVERY, BACKED BY WARS BASED ON DECEITS. The people with the privilege to make the public "money" supply out of nothing have incentives to develop every possible excuse to do so, while that fundamentally fraudulent accounting screws up every statistical analysis or prediction that is based upon that system, in bizarre ways, like measuring everything with a bent rubber rulers, while maintaining attitudes of deliberate ignorance towards that ENFORCED FRAUD being the SOURCE of almost all the "money."
Money is measurement backed by murder. The banksters control the American political economy because they were the best organized gang of criminals. However, the ONLY REAL SOLUTIONS would require better organized gangs of criminals to take control of the powers of governments. The existence of government is due to the fact that EVERYONE HAS SOME POWER TO ROB. Governments are the de facto assembling and channeling of the POWER TO ROB. The de jure rationalizations for that have always been bullshit, as that always will be the biggest bullies' bullshit to justify their robbery. Currently, the ways that primarily works are through the banksters' bullshit, through the monetary and taxation systems.
The basic problem with American society is the degree to which the vast majority of people have been brainwashed to believe in bullshit, so much so that they would have to suffer through very severe cognitive dissonance to breakthrough to better understanding the deep degrees to which almost everything they believe is bullshit. There is nothing wrong with the basic theory of a democratic republic operating through the rule of law. However, most of "We the People" have become Zombie Sheeple, mainstream morons, or masses of muppets, within which groups it is way too easy for the banksters' political puppets to fool enough of them, enough of the time ...
Meanwhile, while America is actually already a system based on ORGANIZED CRIME, in which the government is the biggest form of organized crime, controlled by the best organized gang of criminals, which currently happen to primarily be the big banks, and their buddies, which are the big corporations that have grown up around those big banks, there is almost nothing else which is publicly significant than different groups of CONTROLLED OPPOSITION.
The video embedded above was another example of that general political problem. It was produced by reactionary revolutionaries, who are like Black Sheeple, attempting to lead the Zombie Sheeple BACKWARDS, because the makers of that kind of video, as well as most of the other articles and comments posted on Zero Hedge, continue to rely upon false fundamental dichotomies, and the related impossible ideals, when they switch gears from relatively good analysis, to proposing their favourite kinds of bullshit "solutions," which are expressed in that kind of bullshit language: "debt-financed socialism and corporatism isn't working."
The ONLY way to have realistic resolutions of the problems is for those to remain consistent with the originally correct deeper analysis, namely, governments are the biggest form of organized crime, controlled by the best organized gangs of criminals, because THEY MUST NECESSARILY BE!
As long as most Americans, as well as most of the rest of the world's population, continue to rely upon DUALITIES, rather than starts to make use of more UNITARY MECHANISMS, then we will continue to have social situations that are controlled by bullshit, which automatically get worse, faster, because false fundamental dichotomies result in impossible ideals, which actually make the opposite happen in the real world.
The problems that Americans, and the rest of the world, have are due to civilization operating according to the principles and methods of organized crime, while the vast majority of people do not want to understand that is the case, or do not want to understand that must be the case. The established systems are based on the biggest bullies' bullshit world views, which are practically opposed by nothing but controlled opposition, that stays within the same frame of reference as the biggest bullies originally promoted. Hence, videos like the one above end up with BULLSHIT-BASED CONCLUSIONS, despite that most of its previous presentation being relatively correct analysis of the facts. (And so do the overwhelming vast majority of other articles and comments posted on Zero Hedge follow that pattern.)
Human realities are always organized lies operating robberies. Nothing else exists than the dynamic equilibria of different systems of organized lies and robberies. All private property is based on backing up claims with coercions. Money is measurement backed by murder, because debt controls are backed by the death controls.
THOSE ARE ALL UNIVERSAL SCIENTIFIC TRUTHS ABOUT HUMAN BEINGS AND HUMAN CIVILIZATIONS: politics can never be anything more than modifications in the dynamic equilibria of different systems of organized lies and robberies.
To the degree that too few people understand that, then the best professional liars and immaculate hypocrites become too successful at fooling enough of the people enough of the time. That is the basic problem in America, and the rest of the world, today! The biggest bullies' bullshit world view dominates civilization, through the dominant natural languages, and the dominate philosophy of science. That is how and why we have ended up with REAL POLITICS BEING ORGANIZED CRIME AND CONTROLLED OPPOSITION ...
That is how and why a video like the one embedded above could go through so much relatively good analysis of significant social facts, only to then collapse back to bullshit conclusions at the end. Therefore, nmewn, we're NOT getting somewhere! Rather, we are stuck in the same old-ruts of bullshit.
The first level of those ruts are the bullshit promoted by the established systems, and the second level of those ruts are the bullshit promoted by the controlled opposition. To "get somewhere" enough of us would have to start using UNITARY MECHANISMS to develop better solutions, rather than always continuing to collapse back to the bullshit of DUALITIES. The realities are NOT "organized crime versus government" because governments necessarily are the biggest form of organized crime, which are necessarily controlled by the best organized gangs of criminals.
Americans "need" a Second American Revolution, which should be based on intellectual scientific revolutions, which would necessarily have to become better organized crime in order to be successful. The rest of the world "needs" the same sort of political process to occur, to change the paradigms that people use to perceive politics. It is NOT good enough to do some relatively good analysis of the problems, which does not go deep enough, and therefore, collapses at the end to back to the same old bullshit "solutions" based on impossible ideals, which could never exist in the real world, but rather, must necessarily actually cause the opposite to happen in the real world.
We "need" a political science which is as consistent as possible with physics and biology. However, that requires profound intellectual scientific revolutions, because the history of the philosophy of science was dominated by the biggest bullies' bullshit world views, the same as all other social enterprises were. Virtually all of the natural languages that are dominate in the world today were also dominated by the biggest bullies. Therefore, almost all the labels that people routinely use to describe political problems are BULLSHIT, and therefore, the conclusions they come to tend to also still be BULLSHIT, such as the conclusions in the video above that: "debt-financed socialism and corporatism isn't working."
THAT "DEBT-FINANCING" EXISTS BECAUSE THE INTERNATIONAL BANKERS WERE THE BEST ORGANIZED GANG OF CRIMINALS, WHICH WERE ABLE TO CAPTURE CONTROL OVER THE AMERICAN GOVERNMENT BY PERSISTENT APPLICATION OF THE METHODS OF ORGANIZED CRIME TO THE POLITICAL PROCESSES.
THE ONLY REALISTICALLY BETTER RESOLUTIONS OF THOSE PROBLEMS WOULD REQUIRE BETTER ORGANIZED CRIME TO CONTROL A BETTER GOVERNMENT.
Until enough people understand and agree with that, then we will continue to be stuck in the same ruts we are stuck in now, as those get deeper and deeper and deeper ... At the present time, the most probable futures are we will wear the bottoms out of those ruts, and then collapse into chaos, due to the psychotic breakdown of the established systems of enforced frauds. Yet still, theoretically speaking, after one fully recognizes that what actually exists are integrated systems of legalized lies, backed by legalized violence, then the only genuine solutions consistent with those facts require better systems of legalized lies, backed by better systems of legalized violence.
Of course, at the present time, given the degree to which there is practically nothing but triumphant ORGANIZED CRIME & CONTROLLED OPPOSITION, it is almost impossible to imagine the series of political miracles it would take for enough people to understand enough to come around to some more realistic resolutions, rather than continue to have the best available professional liars and immaculate hypocrites dominate BOTH ORGANIZED CRIME & CONTROLLED OPPOSITION.
But nevertheless, I have bothered to lay out in this reply what I consider to be the kinds of radical truths which would be "needed" to cope with the kinds of problems that social pyramid systems all over the world have developed, by being based on backing up lies with violence. Namely, not only IS the world controlled by backing up lies with violence, but also, the only realistic solutions to those problems are to back up better lies with better violence.
Privately controlled banks? Really? Our financial system is one of the most heavily regulated systems in the world.....by and for government. Their corruption is directly tied to our government's need to launder debt.
Social ownership of the means of production IS the primary purpose of our government. Just because they do not hold proper title to these businesses does not mean they do not exercise considerable if not absolute control over them. Virtually ever bill passed by government has to do with the control of money. It is their primary weapon and tool of control. Why would they want title to a business when they can set out the terms for their operations, taking a considerable slice off of the top of profits without any investment or liability whatsoever? Hell, I don't even believe I own my own home for I know my failure to pay taxes, abide by neighborhood covenants or take action in any deemed illegal activity within, could result in its loss. Social ownership IN DEED!
Your constant appeal to the absolute verbiage of definition to defend socialism illustrates your ideology well. So many see the positive attributes of socialism/Marxism as modifier to capitalism and easily attribute the resultant failure as not due to the socialist influence but that of capitalism or free trade.
Socialism is a poison when interjected into our economy by law. Its influence should be relegated to voluntary action only, as free trade would, if ever allowed by the socialist sympathizing Scaredy cats.
"Our financial system is one of the most heavily regulated systems in the world"
Who writes the regulations? The Private Banks. Surely you know this by now? Surely you know that every legislative barrier to corruption has been removed by the banks for the banks using their political whores. Ever heard of Glass-Steagal? Ever heard of TBTF (Too Big to Fail) and TBTJ (Too Big To Jail)?
Just try to forget your Pavlovian reaction to key words like "Socialism" & "Capitalism" and think. Really think about this. I hope I can express it in a way you can understand it.
We are looking at the fait accompli corporate take-over of government. Not the other way round. A symbiotic relationship of Oligarchs in multinationals and Oligarchs running the most powerful government agencies in the world. A never-ending play of musical chairs from the boardrooms of the corporations to the boardrooms of government institutions, the same players hovering over the seats over and over. How is that socialism? You see any corporations being nationalised? The nearest label is corporatism and that is far from satisfatory.
Look around you. Look at the stuff on the shelves in the supermarkets. Look at what you see and hear on the news. Look at who you may even work for. They are all branded with different labels, but they are all owned by the same group of people. The labels do not matter. Left, Right, Red, Blue, Purple. The SYSTEM is wide open to abuse and the biggest abusers are the ultra wealthy, the plutocracy who own it all, and its minions. Like it or not, Marx predicted this would happen. It would have been nicer for you if Adam Smith predicted it perhaps, but as an analytical tool of capital, Marx still has relevancy today. (Try not to foam at the mouth when you read this :))
Why is the system so wide open to abuse? Because decade by decade, they have re-written and removed all the common rights of the Constitution to a point where anyone who stands up to the corporations and the MIC is slandered a "socialist". Anyone who espouses the ideals of the constitution is an "extremist" or "terrorist". That is where we are today.
Democracy is the best system of governance invented by man, but it is ultimately flawed at the elections because whoever can persuade the majority wins, ie whoever has the mainstream media wins. And then when in power, is constrained by the monstrous civil service structure, the system which the leadership depend on is at the same time what they are often elected to reduce or even eliminate. That is why neither parties will ever reduce the size of government structures, instead it gets bigger and more corrupt. The last person who tried to disband (a small portion of) the city state called the CIA was JF Kennedy. That did not end well. The last journalists who tried to investigate the CIA were Gary Webb and Michael Hastings. That also did not end well.
At the heart of this systemic mess, are the worst culprits of them all: The moneychangers and moneylenders, the private banks that run the Federal Reserve. They have the monopoly on the supply of fiat money, Fiat money that is also the reserve currency of the world. Can you imagine how powerful that makes them? I can't. Potentially infinite wealth conjured out of thin air at no cost to themselves on the whims of their masters - whoever they are. What do they do with it? Why, give it to themselves and their minions of course and just enough free shit to keep the plebs quiet and docile. All the while, the debts mount to untenable highs, and to service them, tax collections, property confiscations, and outright theft by government institutions continue to climb.
You know about stocks buyback scams? That also works in government too. When they say they are "Investing" in social programs, they are actually diverting funds to their friends and the corporations in which they are board members. When they say they are projecting their foreign policies to support freedom and democracy abroad, they are actually diverting funds to their friends and the corporations in the MIC. Almost EVERYTHING is a scam and quite openly too, except nobody ever goes to jail.
I doubt I did a decent job of explaining what to me are obvious facts, but that was my buck and a half's worth of comment.
Both capitalism & socialism have faults and merits. It really is time to replace a system that has created monstrous multinationals with its tentacles entrenched in politics and the media with something better. It's a hard choice to try to limit the human nature of greed and power without cutting into property rights and freedom of the individual. The current systems do not encourage honest human effort and ingenuity, it encourages shortcuts to wealth, risk taking and theft. That is where I think we should start, with money that is based on honest human effort and ingenuity.
YHC,
I think the only way to have effective and enduring change is to limit the size of corporations. If corporations were not allowed to have more than 1000 direct or contractual employees, (including lateral and vertical subsidiaries, off-shored,and frachised), it would go along way toward correcting our problems. Greed should have limits.
+1 I entirely agree - funny, because that's what I just kind of typed in my reply to the nutjob above.
EDIT: I don't mean oldwood. There's a lengthy reply missing I made to an angry chap who seems to have disappeared from the thread. WTF happened?
Corporations are not part of natural capitalism or what most of us would call free trade. Its an invention of our government to give cover to those seeking dominance over us, and as is ALWAYS the case, done for our own good. What's good for GM is good for America, right? Free markets and competition do not give indemnity from liability. We are exposed to ALL of our failures in a free market. Government's intent is to protect us from effectively...us, our businesses or financial activities. They have built their empire on this protection racket and have used the dissemination of fear to reinforce it.
We are not safe
especially around ourselves.
Yeah...TRUST any business, corportism-ized or private to look out for my best interests...I'll believe!
What people are failing to understand is that the problem is not banks or government. It is people. people in power who will use ANY theory, system or "ism" to advance their agenda. Sure bankers write the laws but it is only the government who can enforce them and give them meaning. Its fucking people taking power and fucking people giving it to them. We surrender our powers through the theories of democracy which TELLS us to surrender our individuality to the collective, pure and simple. Submit to the majority, or at least those willing to impose themselves upon us. We call this "ideology" or religion in effect to keep us aligned on point, marching to someone's orders. There is no socialism or capitalism. There is only freedom and layers of the onion that separates us from it.
Thievery not Ideology
Ideology is another curtain of misdirection tailored to cover thievery. What is of paramount importance is that the thieves do not give a rats ass about which ideology is providing good cover, just as long as they can continue their thieving, preferably on a massive scale. Think of all the pseudo Randians and blood thirsty progressives now resident in the halls of power.
So while the thieves are busy engaging in their massive thievery and siphoning more and more to the top, all the common idiots comprising the debt enslaved masses are allowed, indeed they are encouraged to argue and bloody each other over ideological koans tailored to provide maximum chaos and confusion (betwixt episodes of keeping up with the Kardashians and professional sports events of course).
This ensures that they are all way too busy to ever shoot the real monster in the head and move to the necessary reset.
Gees I wondered what you doing up at this ungodly hour.
Correct, thievery is not ideology.
One of the hardest things for the socialist mind to accept is the fact that a socialist (any socialist) can also be a thief. The core tenet of socialism is thievery, appointing the government to re-distribute from one person to the next is theft, its certainly not charity, its not voluntary and its done at the point of a gun.
So why the socialist mind has such a hard time understanding human nature and HUMAN ACTION (Mises) to consciously and purposely use the government to enrich themself is beyond me.
Capitalism is, you risk everything and fail you are destroyed, never bailed out, you have to rebuild. You risk a little and fail, you try again but if a success you keep the lions share of the profit as it was your personal risk, not your neighbors. The money to risk comes from personal savings or a loan from someone who has saved, not government who just stands around waiting for someone to be successful in order to tax them for their success.
Can a capitalist also be a thief? Certainly.
But they never hide behind some ideological altruistic veil while doing it either. Its flatly stated its for a profit. Wall Street is not capitalism, not even close, its a casino (as Capone pointed out long ago) with an endless supply of cash "donated" by the Fed (another socialist construct) where one is free to voluntarily bet, win or lose and then get the hell out, you're not "rich" until you cash out afterall.
There is no doubt that the Fed was created by the government for War & Welfare as opposed to taxation as we go is there? ;-)
They get to play the slot machine without putting a coin in first...which I suppose means it technically isn't even a casino for them, its just a fucking sieve.
lol...yes, the casino's silent partner.
I wonder if the ole string on a coin still works ;-)
God Save The Banks
Well thats the other thing about communism/socialism that is always glossed over, it seeks to supplant all religions with the state.
So I guess in a sense we see it yet again, dot-gawd saved the banks.
/////
A communist/socialist disagrees.
"Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people." - Marx
"Religion is opium for the people. Religion is a sort of spiritual booze, in which the slaves of capital drown their human image, their demand for a life more or less worthy of man."- Lenin
Or perhaps my down voter is a Christian Socialist, which still morphs religion into the states apparatus ;-)
Does the pig at the trough care if you call it Flo or Eddy?
Pretty sure it doesn't care as long as its being fed.
Its when it squeals like the stuck pig it is that I get most satisfaction ;-)
Ideologies are religions and have one significant commonality, they all rely on faith. Faith that their scientifically unprovable theories are valid. That if we just believe and proceed with their "plan" it will all work in the end. They can site facts that support their view, but none that PROVE it. Free markets are natural as the weather, for good and bad. They need no proof, they just ARE. The more extreme their ideology, the more extreme their demand for adherence and intolerance of those who do not absolutely BELIEVE. Deniers, I think they are called, heretics by others, infidels by even more.
Good grief what a load of malarkey.
"The core tenet of socialism is thievery" You wish.
The core 'tenet' of socialism is to empower labour through secular humanism and equality in the eyes of the law. And yes, that is altruistic by definition. Abuse of trust in that 'tenet' doesn't negate the ideology, it only reflects the character of the abuser.
Nor does 'secular' imply the repression of organised religion as some disingenuous asshole might have us believe, on the contrary, the overwhelming majority of Christians, Muslims, in fact most all religious moderates, seem to be able to agree with the secular humanists on crucial common ground, regardless of any wacked out extremists they each incidentally support. 'Secular' refers simply to separation of church and state; which is wise in light of the existence of such extremists.
As you say, capitalism makes no such claim to morality, it is inherently amoral. Which is precisely why it must be mitigated by public (social) oversight.
The Fed wasn't formed by gov't to control private interests, it was formed by select private interests' pocketed politicians to enhance/entrench their select private interests at the expense of everyone else's interests. IE the very opposite of 'socialism'; whatever that could be.
Gary Allen called: he wants his misnomers back.
Good grief what a load of malarkey.
"The core tenet of socialism is thievery" You wish.
Really?
Well then, what did Marx mean by "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need" exactly or was he plagarizing Louis Blanc another socialist fucktard?
This implies several things, there will always be more with the ability to produce than those needing...and very much implies "something" (a socialist government perhaps?) would be the proper entity to determine who needs what and take from those they think have more than they need and the ability to produce moar after the theft.
Of course we know government (socialist or otherwise) is a completely disinterested altruistic observer, populated by the very best humanity has to offer, which would never EVER deign to create subclasses of people so that the need for it would grow expotentially in order to divy up what it never produced in the first place.
Right?
When it comes to the Achilles heel of capitalism, the word Marx coined, his prescience is undeniable,
Malwartism
Which, as Marx correctly predicted, reflexively pulls populations to 'socialism' in order to protect themselves. Over the centuries that socialism has been evolving too, but into the social democracies with mixed economies as defined above, and of which I have tirelessly provided existing, lasting, socially responsible and economically viable examples, time and time again. In light of this it is worth noting that, in the five years since I began visiting ZH, I have yet to see you, or any of the other echochambermaidens, provide a single functioning example of the vague, ethereal system of Osch Kosh B'Goch approved 'absolute freedom' you supposedly envision, but can never actually describe in any sort of detail. You all simply stick to automatically gainsaying any suggestions that promote terms which your programmed duck-speak can't abide; to the great relief of the status quo, I'm sure.
As you take great pains to point out while fulfulling your apparent mandate to conflate and obfuscate, there have been some utterly indefensible groups that have laid claim to the label 'socialism'; you just deliberately omit the part where none of what they did/do actually had/has anything to do with what Marx described, because it suits your agenda- either that or you have somehow managed to remain truly ignorant, despite almost five years of me repeatedly attempting to set you straight on the matter- take your pick.
"This implies several things, there will always be more with the ability to produce than those needing"
So what is your contention here? That it is only possible for the individual to be prudent, and not a nation as a whole? Codswallop, and you know't. In any case, your 'will always' is not implied at all; the difference between revenue and expenditure is merely a balance to seek to maintain, as any responsible family/group would do. (For examples refer to my worldwide, century spanning, record-setting examples.) Really, it's a nonstarter anyway, since it emanates from another one of your favourite false premises: the universe is a priori privately owned.
...and very much implies "something" (a socialist government perhaps?) would be the proper entity to determine who needs what and take from those they think have more than they need and the ability to produce moar after the theft."
What?! Oh I see, calling it 'theft' seems like a kind of reason if one accepts your ridiculous premise that when you were born you independently popped outta your momma, waved her goodbye, and hit the ground running, so as a result you owe nobody nothing never, even as you grow up taking advantage of all of the advantages provided to your oh so VIP by the labour of all those who where born before you. Hey, you're not stealing because you didn't ask for the leg up (so it's more like disrespect, or misplaced, smug self righteousness). No, it didn't take no village to raise the likes of exceptional you. Anyway you coulda done it all better all on your oddy knocky; even as you shat your pants and picked your nose and ate it. Yes, you will assuredly remain invincible eternally. And even if you somehow don't, with your innate perfect knowledge and judgement you know that only privately owned/operated insurance can protect you from all the possible pitfalls of life, every last one of which you foresaw and began prudently planning for the second your umbilical cord was cut.. or something.
Well in the real world grown ups are able to recognize that, of course, governments write and enforce laws, many suppported by popular consensus, that everyone is obliged to follow. Ostensibly those that are elected by popular vote produce legislation that expresses the mandate that their electorate have given them in choosing them as representatives. And as a rule when 80% or so of the eligible voters bother to show up, more often than not things do change for the better. And yes, the wealth to fulfil those mandates has to come from somewhere, but it isn't 'stealing' unless it is used in some way contrary to fulfilling the mandate given.
"Of course we know government (socialist or otherwise) is a completely disinterested altruistic observer, populated by the very best humanity has to offer, which would never EVER deign to create subclasses of people so that the need for it would grow expotentially in order to divy up what it never produced in the first place. Right?"
No, wrong again, not 'observer'; enacter of mandates from the masses. And any human system can be corrupted if not properly cared for, but a total vacuum without civil oversight corrupts much faster. And really, it is quite boring to constantly hear you whine and bleat and blame a perfectly decent system that only failed because you and yours have been collectively allowing it to. An echochambermaid once wrote in response to one of my comments, "Collectives suck collectively", and your case is a prime example, yet the statement ignores what happens when they succeed instead. Naturally the level of 'altruism' depends much on the ideology of the gov't in power. And as I have noted many times before, when the overwhelming majority of a population has access to a decent level of education and are politically involved, yes, their gov'ts (socialist or otherwise) tend to fill up with people that have some integrity, which can and does effectively mitigate this, yet another of your mongered fears.
So, if a gov't represents the people who elected it by fulfilling the mandate it was handed when it was elected, then it has permission from those who earned the wealth to 'divy up what it never produced in the first place', so long as that wealth is being employed as the people who earned it wish it to be employed. Naturallly it is highly unlikely every last one of them approves of every policy enacted, but then these are the sorts of compromises adults make once they awaken to realize that they aren't the only ones that exist. A social democratic gov't represents the will of the masses, and so 'it' has an obligation to employ that wealth as mandated. This is not 'stealing', it's called managing on someone else's behalf. And it can and has been accomplished responsibly.
Re: "Ostensibly"
Again, it is specious of you to incessantly claim that the abuse of a moral system negates its viability, rather than simply reflecting the character of the abuser. In addition to this it is particulary disingenuous of you to simultaneously assert that an inherently amoral system like capitalism behaves best when nobody is watching, despite deep volumes of historical record indicating the exact opposite.
So, thats a long way of saying you really don't know what Marx meant by "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need" or you just don't want to admit its theft at the hand of .gov?
Actually, that was just about the shortest way to outline just how full of horsecrap you are.
"From each according to his ability, to each according to his need"
In an ideal world that exchange would occur as a result of natural human empathy, no gov't required. Which, when the quote is not deliberately presented out of context, was Marx's point. But with so many powerful sociopaths running around actually stealing, a modicum of coercion becomes necessary to keep them honest. Of course the sociopaths bend over backwards to label that stealing rather than 'obligation', because they are inherently amoral, at best.
NEXT!
"In an ideal world that would just happen out of empathy, no gov't required. Which was Marx's point."
So Marx was some sort of "idealist" then, in your opinion, even though he lived off Engels inheritance in abject squalor, a parasite as it were, on welfare. Could it be he was just a bum?
"But with so many powerful sociopaths running around actually stealing, a modicum of coercion becomes necessary to keep them honest."
Powerful sociopaths like Soros or the oligarchs of Russia ie the execs of Gazprom etc? You seem to think "government coercion" guarantees charity or altruistic tendency, when all the evidence points in the other direction.
So the idea is to have scraps thrown to "the masses" for this modicum of honesty & "justice" or is the real long range design to force all into a "from each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs."
What if I want a new boat, can I have it and the one I want or do I need the apparatchik's who work for government approvals in triplicate beforehand or some communal vote among those who don't have a boat?
"So Marx was some sort of "idealist" then, in your opinion, even though he lived off Engels inheritance in abject squalor, a parasite as it were, on welfare. Could it be he was just a bum?"
Maybe, but attacking the man when you can't refute the idea isn't much of an argument, even for you. It has exactly zero bearing on his prescience with regards to the unfolding of capitalism, amongst the entire list of other things I've mentioned.
"Powerful sociopaths like Soros or the oligarchs of Russia ie the execs of Gazprom etc? You seem to think "government coercion" guarantees charity or altruistic tendency, when all the evidence points in the other direction."
I think elected gov'ts can, with appropriate diligent civil oversight, sometimes force the unwilling sociopath to alter his behavior enough to become a contributing, if not entirely trustworthy, member of society, if that is what you're suggesting. The current existence of those on your list doesn't provide evidence that negates this, rather it emphasizes the urgency of its implementation.
"So the idea is to have scraps thrown to "the masses" for this modicum of honesty & "justice" or is the real long range design to force all into a "from each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs."
Fascinating quote of yours when you consider that the point of that last sentence is that the overwhelming majority who possess a healthy dose of innate human empathy don't have to be 'forced' at all to behave decently.
"What if I want a new boat, can I have it and the one I want or do I need the apparatchik's who work for government approvals in triplicate beforehand or some communal vote among those who don't have a boat?"
lol, Maybe, or alternately you could just gird your loins, cut through the red tape, and pay the sales tax, rather than eternally bitching and moaning about the onerous burden of having to be so well 0ff. I mean as far as the example of a boat goes, it seems wise to have a bit of licensing no? Insurance companies (including private ones) know that even a small 2000 lb/ 450 hp watercraft can be deadly...
On second thought, I'd even support your right to eternally bitch and moan about it, though that certainly won't earn you my respect, not that that would be any skin off your nose. :)
Well I do appreciate the interaction as it validates everything I've ever thought about you and people like yourself and your/their agenda. The state and the socialist bureaucracy must survive at any & all costs!
I love you people on a power trip...lol.
You see, there was a time, not that long ago, when I didn't need licensing or insurance or anyones "permission" to launch a boat on public waterways that I supposedly own. Now you say something else "owns it". I am not a rich man, what you (and yours) have done is make me hate you even more by admitting what you have done to me and us (the small fry) under the guise of your compassion & fairness & regulatory abuse.
You've attempted to steal our liberty.
For that, everytime you see a beer bottle at the bottom of a crystal clear pristine river and get angry, everytime you see one of "the kings deer" with its hams cut off with the rest left behind for the vultures and say what a waste, every cup, piece of trash, old washing machines etc...I want you to think of me. I do it on purpose, for you...and "your king"...to let you both know I'm very much alive, right here, laughing at you.
You're gonna have to deal with that at some point and I'll be waiting.
O K then
Look, let me know if you ever turn into someone who can make an ounce of sense, or can understand one.
I'd really enjoy dealing with that at some point; I'll be waiting.
You heard me the first time
I read you the first time.
Oh snap!
+ a gazillion RM, you are undoubtedly one of the most astute US commentators here!
Long-term Gubbermint propaganda tends to have atrocious effects upon citizenry's critical thinking. Just like Swedes that have been (and are) kept in a constant fear that "Russians are coming" and Greeks that would claw your eyes out if you mention ethnical minorities in Grease, the general discourse and problem-defining in USSA stems from the dark ages of Red Scare and McCarthyism's subsequent witch hunt...
It's all those damn Commies' fault!
Yeah. ONLY Gubmint propaganda is at fault. It's never that private propaganda and marketing that causes problems or influences people negatively. Those businesses hiring droves of marketing assholes are just hiring them as a public service to keep them off the streets. It has nothing to do with making people buy things they don't need or act in detrimental ways. It's only businesses enforcers, gubmint, who are to blame 100%. Also, it's never the fault of Joe six pack who would always make a perfectly correct decision 100% of the time without gubmint coercion interfering.
I also like the folks on here constantly blowing off about "freedumb" yet they absolutely HATE anyone who would choose a lifestyle different than the one they are promoting. It's the usual brand of conservative freedom where THEY get to tell YOU what your freedoms are. Anything other than the somewhat poorly researched and thought out idea of no gubmint involved free markets that have only existed in their head and that of Ayn Rand are unacceptable. Anything and everything else is socialism, communism, progressivism, thisism, thatism, whateverism, whogivesashitism... The fact that humans (who are always and only looking out for their own self interests and ONLY their own self interests and make perfect decision EVERY time in a free market) have never chosen their absolute free markets with no government utopia at any point in modern industrial history evades them. No, it's the free shit army* who are coerced by gubmint propaganda that make their utopian libertarian dreams impossible. It's the statists. It's the socialist commies...it's those guys, and them too.
Coming here to read the posts is akin to going to an insane asylum to read the writing scrawled on the walls. Quite entertaining, especially some of those above by the dudes who have been listening to way too much christian right wing nut job radio in their bunkers. A steady stream of fear and hate are a great way to create nutjobs.
*Not the real military industrial complex army that feeds on taxpayers like leeches are the problem. They mean that other free shit army.
My. You like to hear yourself talk, don't you? Whew.
Hah!
Of course,
I seem to make more sense to me than any one else.
I am not aware of anyone who proposes realistic solutions which are consistent with their analysis. Everyone I am aware of always switches back to promoting impossible ideals as the "solutions" to problems that organized crime controls the government to the degree that organized crime IS the government.
Then you obviously haven't been paying attention.
"Rewards dictate Behaviors". This is a universal truth about human behavior.
If you want to change how Gov works, you/we should have had different "reward" systems in place on how the game is played, and which players get to play. Ultimately... "A People deserve their leaders", for...
"When good people remain silent and disorganized, sociopaths and their evil spawn prosper."
Rewarding failure, seen this a zillion times in the private market. Just love how CEO's and their board can f up a company royally and STILL be rewarded for it.
It is all a ponzi scheme currently, because it's structured such that TIME is on their side. Only that thing that is genuinely 'disruptive' to any form of mass behavior is a threat, moreover the quicker it disrupts the more it threatens.
Look at all the things they can hedge: Wall Street/Globo blowups, terrorism, Mr. Putin's new Russia, Chinese Asian aggression, even a cyber attack to a certain degree. So what's the one thing they really can't hedge, if it careens outside its std. deviation? A: the weather.
HAARP
they know how to have an effect on weather as well.
A geomagnetic pole shift would certainly qualify as a major cataclysm.
That might be better than asteroids around Uranus and a return of the Annunaki.
The Americans that look to the government to 'save' them - and even gleefully thank the government for helping bail them out - fail to realize that it was the government that f##ked them in the first place...
Truer words have rarely been spoken
The fact that , after Cyprus, all that debt was re-organized in private? Who actually holds that debt? Belgium?
It's funny how the rules change for the players?
The game of Chess was conceived for exactly this purpose.
the british will never let cyprus go, yen cross. it is only they that need the divvied up nation once the suez was stolen from them,....[?]
think strategic geopolitical gamesmanship regarding turkey today, and the greeks warming to erdogans pleas of endearment
think armenian genocide where russian archives will settle dispute over a century ago
whose counting when after ww2 the british almost aligned with russia,...
stranger things have happened, but the outcome is always masked in an innocent miscalculation[?]
Why am I being junked for my honesty? It's those pesky brownies 7 thousand clicks away.
@earleflorida
I bookmarked those 2 interactive links on clintons/rottenfellars & poof they disappeared.
Could you please repost the links?
TIA
wish i could but [they?] are pulling some strange shit here in suuny florida
things just go poof for me lately
never give-up your mind?
:)
The Brits need to be in Cyprus and Gibralter to defend warm water ports for pasty white islanders to vacation at.
"Vacationing Through Strength".
Attention Adult-ADD patients...
A financial system of fiat Debt (fiat currency plus FRB) MUST grow or remain inflated. It needs VOM and a growing 'Money' Supply.
It matters naught HOW this happens. Be it via funding for the poor, unwashed Plebeian Masses ('SNAP socialism'), or via fiat funding the MIC and TPTF banks and their spawn (Bailouts and free money). The important thing is that it HAPPENS.
But if you want or need to glam onto the mantra of "No butter for the unwashed Masses!", that's fine. While you're looking in that direction, the theft keeps going on in the opposite direction.
Until we hit the Hard-Boot Reset in Politics, Banking and Finance, nothing will change.
Attention Iliterate child. You've Zero concept or understanding of what is unfolding around you .
Trillions have been given to Wall Street and multinationals major shareholders. And that's the fact. How many trillions spent saving slaves aka wage earners?
So you are one of "the Americans that look to the government to 'save' them?"
No wealth transfer to Wall Street by government and no wealth transfer to whiners who want higher pay for their burger flipping "skills."
Trillions have been given to Wall Street and multinationals major shareholders. And that's the fact. How many trillions spent saving slaves aka wage earners?
True, but how exactly did that happen? BECAUSE OF THE FUCKING CORRUPT GOVERNMENT CRONIES. SO MORE FUCKING GOVERNMENT ISN"T GOING TO CORRECT IT ONLY MUCH MUCH LESS WILL.
"BECAUSE OF THE FUCKING CORRUPT GOVERNMENT CRONIES." purchased by private interests.
"SO MORE FUCKING GOVERNMENT (purchased by monied interests Ed.) ISN"T GOING TO CORRECT IT ONLY MUCH MUCH LESS WILL"
less, more, or even the exact same amount, the important thing is that the gov't be beholden only to the people, and not a monied oligarchy. The key isn't the 'size', which is a wholly arbitrary distinction when you are discussing 300 million people, it's who is pulling the strings.
Yep...we must shore up and bail out the worthless rich in this nation...the true leeches stuck on the skin of America.
You try to teach, and they think they're smarter.
Parenting Skills
excellent!
your on a roll, YC
Earl, I like you. Truth! I'm not kidding.
I think, you're a "straight shooter" Earl.
When I get back from Queensland,12 days. There's a few other people I'd like to meet.
right back at ya guy[YC]
thanks :)
Beats the insults over at huff and puff.
A good way of putting it. That socialist governments are the catalyst for escaping banker capital does not suggest that they are the solution, only that we have been taken so far from knowing what is the correct way of organising a society that we do not even know what is right anymore. It is scary to think that socialist government seems so much better to people than what we have now. Just what have we lost for it to have come to this?
Not only does a society need to prevent monopolisation of wealth into the material exchange of a few, but individuals need to prevent solutions from being formed within centralized organisations. It seems to me that we have to come up with a way to offer more to people than the bare existence offered by governments, and we have to do this on a small scale. I won't claim to know what the solution is, only that we need to search for a deeper meaning to life beyond democratic government and capitalist exchange, and somehow reconcile this in a time when government seems to grow no matter what we try.
Here's a thought.
How about I give 5% of my money to Fed & State to float a boat or two off the coast to look for illegals and my local taxes can take care of what I actually use like fire, police and schools.
I'll find the deeper meaning of life myself with all the money that action will put back in my wallet. I could even have plenty left to help some poor local folks I know who could use a hand instead of paying 27 govt. workers to do it for me. I also wouldn't be paying the 31 other gov. employees that currently tell me how to live my life.
I should start a reform movement called The F.O.A.D. Coalition.
We could start there.
If the Government simply gave everybody a check for say...a hundred bucks...say...every week...that would enhance production that's fer sure.
It's not like Banks are doing anything for/with the money.
That would be taxpayer money I might add.
Bwhahahaha. "Bailouts for Wall Street."
Makes communism sound good actually.
Any who who cares....ENERGY PRICES HAVE COLLAPSED! CAPITALISM IS WORKING!
BUY MO DEBT!
GET RICH NOW MO FO!
When I saw that word "Socialism" I thought of work, but look I won't have to worry about it: "'PUTIN SENDS NUCLEAR BOMBERS OVER ENGLISH CHANNEL: “'TRANSPONDERS TURNED OFF… INVISIBLE TO AIR TRAFFIC CONTROL'”, we're all going to die bitchez
"it was the government that f##ked them in the first place..."
Ding ding ding ding... We have a WINNER!!! Someone gets it. Now if all of those "smart" college kiddies would smarten up some we could change course for the better - back to a republic with a capitalist economy. Prosperity for all who work for it. Not prosperity for all who vote the "correct" way.
Nice drums in the background of the video. </sarc>
What this video and topic generally demonstrates to me is that America has never gotten over the psychological impact of McCarthyism. Prior to the 1950s in the West we had many left-leaning parties and candidates, who were willing to take a page from socialism's book, and maybe even Marxism's book. Its hardly surprising, since America's reaction to the Depression was the socialist New Deal. To quote Michael Hudson, all successful economies of the past have been mixed economies. So its hardly surprising that people leaned left.
What happened in McCarthyism was an American witch-hunt or inquisition the likes of which have never been seen before or since on US soil. We had people publically humiliated and shunned for their economic beliefs, and basically an ideological crusade against any left-leaning sympathies that could be found.
The fact that 'socialist' is a bad word in America today, even while most of Europe is semi-socialist, really shows that we are 'unreconstructed' McCarthyists even today. There was no public apology for McCarthy's reign of terror, there was no general intellectual acknowledgement of its evil consequences and the restriction of debate it caused; so it has passed into the American psyche and still has adherents, in much the same way as Stalinism still had vocal supporters in Russia as late as the 90s. Germany repented of nazism, but we have never repented of McCarthyism.
I find the anarcho-capitalist paradise of internet desperados much harder to believe in than, say, a country like Denmark -- where studies and anecdotes across a spectrum of social variables would reveal a society that is plainly existing at a higher level than our own.
America was never a paradise, even in the 50s. We had a brief, largely unearned moment in the sunshine owing to European folly and war. There were no 'good old days' of America and anyone who believes in that myth, and thinks we need to get back there, is at odds with my thinking at least. Talk about drinking the koolaid, you believe in yesterday's lie just to spite today's.
American history is chock full of examples of socialism. Its American military deficit spending, for example, which funded the rise of the early R&D and tech companies which drove innovation in the semiconductor industry and what would later become silicon valley. Most of these things were farmed out Bell Labs projects and/or DARPA projects, which resulted in the American technology boom. That's government money that created the internet and refined semiconductors and integrated circuits, for the first 20 years.
Excellent points!
Even some of my "conservative" friends realize that after 50 years we are still living off the massive government initiated and funded research effort put forth during the Space Race. However, that giant leap for mankind is petering out, like the infrastructure built during another "socialist" big government push. Unfortunately, most of my conservative friends have vowed that they will not allow that kind mistake to be made again.
Can anyone imagine private investors working with that kind of time line. Not a chance in hell, which is where they need to go before they kill us all and the biosphere to boot.
It is probably too late but the technology needed to pull the human race’s fat out of the fire is indeed available. It was invented the 1300s but finally came into popularity in 1790s France after it was presented to the French Assembly by Joseph-Ignace Guillotine, a French Physician. Later the device bore Guillotine’s name and was introduced to wealthy persons who had too much time and cake on their hands by breadless French Peasants.
Theories of economics are wonderful until the reality of humanity hits you in the face.
The only thing wrong with government's involvement in our economy is that humans will always seek advantage and the unaccountable power of government ensures eventual corruption.
Corruption exists regardless but government allows a concentration and a volume that becomes world crushing. Yes, big government, big unions, big military, big corporations have accomplished some good things....right before they ran off the tracks and tried to destroy the world.
Our illness is one of unemployment created by a government that fosters and justifies the acceptance of living from the labors of others. Further, this is being accomplished not only through social policy but also through debt. Debt that creates servitude but also dependency, but more importantly this debt has enabled the advancement of technology that is displacing workers. I realize this may sound a stretch but think about it. We have had some level of technological advancement from the beginning of time but we have always seemed to keep moving forward with jobs. Technology can typically only advance as long as people remain able to pay for it...traditionally with a job. Today the technology is largely paid for with credit, either directly by consumers, by massive loans by manufacturers and more importantly government spending (credit again). This allows technology to advance at a faster pace than employment skills and jobs can keep pace. Further, the natural balancing effects are further deferred by unemployment and disability payments that provide consumers funds to purchase even more technology only widening the gap, leaving them even further behind in the employment race.
amen
Govt. subsidies to robot builders whose corp. hq is US but the factories that build the bots are in China.
Robot builders sell to US mfg. with 100% vendor financing from cheap money from TBTF. handed to them by the FED.
Thousands of unemployed American getting Gov. checks funded by the fewer working Americans.
A perfect demonic death spiral all brought to you by your public servants and their owners...
TBTF. and their chosen winners.
The threats that McCarthy warned of were real and we are the living proof. Everything the communists predicted have occurred. McCarthy thought by stopping these influences he could stop the cycle of "something for nothing" but he was wrong. In a natural world these theories would die a relatively quick death as the wealth providers would run the fuck away, but with the advent of the socialized centrally commanded government, there is no escape. Redistribution is by force. McCarthy also failed his conservative cause as he, like most others thought the answer was through force. Admittedly the concept of working for a living will always have a hard sell compared to the redistributionist platform, in theory. Its only the practicing conservatives that understand and they also understand that those who don't want to understand, won't.
Public funding for MIC war toys will lead us to a Socialist Paradise.
Look at all the cool consumer shit we have because of it. Without that public money going to PRIVATELY owned Corps that actually did the work that never would have taken place without the benevolent guiding hand of Govt. leading TAXPAYERS and their FUTURE EARNINGS who are willing to foot the bill.
I could go on but why bother. Sheesh.
Among the other logical fallacies the "Straw man" is front and center in this article. As a matter of fact I have seldom noticed any type of socialism presented here that was not "Straw Socialism" glibly snarked.
Specious is their specialty!
Government must be done away with so we can all live in the paradise the wealthy will create for us once those shackles are removed.
Without government, multi billion dollar corporations will suddenly become altruistic institutions. Left to their own devices, these corporations will certainly clean the environment, rebuild our failing infrastructure and end poverty.
This fantasy is what many here believe
don't stop
that was so beautiful
until you called it a fantasy
burst my bubble
A historical example doesn't exist for a reason.
I've been waiting for almost five years for one of the resident echochambermaidens to come up with one. It appears to be a 'blind faith' thing.
The manifesto is a laugh, and no error.
I am a job creator: A manifesto for the entitled
By Steven Pearlstein,
I am a corporate chief executive.
I am a business owner.
I am a private-equity fund manager.
I am the misunderstood superhero of American capitalism, single-handedly creating wealth and prosperity despite all the obstacles put in my way by employees, government and the media.
I am a job creator and I am entitled.
I am entitled to complain about the economy even when my stock price, my portfolio and my profits are at record levels.
I am entitled to a healthy and well-educated workforce, a modern and efficient transportation system and protection for my person and property, just as I am entitled to demonize the government workers who provide them.
I am entitled to complain bitterly about taxes that are always too high, even when they are at record lows.
I am entitled to a judicial system that efficiently enforces contracts and legal obligations on customers, suppliers and employees but does not afford them the same right in return.
I am entitled to complain about the poor quality of service provided by government agencies even as I leave my own customers on hold for 35 minutes while repeatedly telling them how important their call is.
I am entitled to a compensation package that is above average for my company’s size and industry, reflecting the company’s aspirations if not its performance.
I am entitled to have the company pay for breakfasts and lunches, a luxury car and private jet travel, my country club dues and home security systems, box seats to all major sporting events, a pension equal to my current salary and a full package of insurance — life, health, dental, disability and long-term care — through retirement.
I am entitled to have my earned income taxed as capital gains and my investment income taxed at the lowest rate anywhere in the world — or not at all.
I am entitled to inside information and favorable investment opportunities not available to ordinary investors. I am entitled to brag about my investment returns.
I am entitled to pass on my accumulated wealth tax-free to heirs, who in turn, are entitled to claim that they earned everything they have.
I am entitled to use unlimited amounts of my own or company funds to buy elections without disclosing such expenditures to shareholders or the public.
I am entitled to use company funds to burnish my own charitable reputation.
I am entitled to provide political support to radical, uncompromising politicians and then complain about how dysfunctional Washington has become.
Although I have no clue how government works, I am entitled to be consulted on public policy by politicians and bureaucrats who have no clue about how business works.
I am entitled to publicly criticize the president and members of Congress, who are not entitled to criticize me.
I am entitled to fire any worker who tries to organize a union. I am entitled to break any existing union by moving, or threatening to move, operations to a union-hostile environment.
I am entitled to a duty of care and loyalty from employees and investors who are owed no such duty in return.
I am entitled to operate my business free of all government regulations other than those written or approved by my industry.
I am entitled to load companies up with debt in order to pay myself and investors big dividends — and then blame any bankruptcy on over-compensated workers.
I am entitled to contracts, subsidies, tax breaks, loans and even bailouts from government, even as I complain about job-killing government budget deficits.
I am entitled to federal entitlement reform.
I am entitled to take credit for all the jobs I create while ignoring any jobs I destroy.
I am entitled to claim credit for all the profits made during a booming economy while blaming losses or setbacks on adverse market or economic conditions.
I am entitled to deny knowledge or responsibility for any controversial decisions made after my departure from the company, even while profiting from such decisions if they enhance shareholder value.
I am entitled to all the rights and privileges of running an American company, but owe no loyalty to American workers or taxpayers.
I am entitled to confidential information about my employees and customers while refusing even to list the company’s phone number on its Web site.
I am entitled to be treated with deference and respect by investors I mislead, customers I bamboozle, directors I manipulate and employees I view as expendable.
I am entitled to be lionized in the media without answering any questions from reporters.
I am entitled to the VIP entrance.
I am entitled to everything I have and more that I still deserve.
I always get a chuckle out of,
"I am entitled to a judicial system that efficiently enforces contracts and legal obligations on customers, suppliers and employees but does not afford them the same right in return."
From the perspective of a person who has never actually hired a person, created a job, risked their own assets to do so, worked countless hours with absolutely no promise of pay much less profit, who is happy to sit on their fat ass whining because they have not, regardless of if they willing to expend the effort, and are absolutely positive that they know more, are smarter than, and can do their employer's job infinitely better....if they felt like it.
Don't criticize it unless you've tried it. Unless of course you are a traditional lib and would never stoop so low, in which case just keep your job (if you can) and stfu.
Ok fine, sir. You are entitled. But just you.
Haha! My "fat ass" perspective was a ski hill today, for hours on end, and it appears you seem to be operating under the misapprehension that I am obligated to thank you oh so very much for leave to do so, is that correct sir?
Good day sir.
Lucky you.
I was instead working on the engine of my delivery truck today so my employees would be able to work on Monday morning.....assuming they are able after a super bowl evening.
I don't need to be loved or appreciated, I just need to get every god damned moocher off my back so I can run my business.
And yes, I built my own business over 30 years with NO god damned help from Obama or anyone like him. I don't owe anyone. I pay my bills.
"And yes, I built my own business over 30 years with NO god damned help from Obama or anyone like him. I don't owe anyone. I pay my bills."
All good points. I'm sure you're a thoroughly decent fellow. Local business,hey? And I bet you appreciate your customers. In fact I'd wager you might even feel sometimes that you owe them a debt of gratitude, no?
Not sure what has given you the impression I've never been knee deep in diesel at 3 am in subzero for my own neck while my friends were lounging on a beach somewhere exotic... Lol, for some here, I am sure they will say,
"well, that explains a lot..." but they're all basterds anyway
And yes, I am pretty damn lucky, take it all around<knocks on wood>, thanks for noticing.
My response was directed to the person you credited with the critique of the "entitled", but if the shoe fits, wear it. I would find it hard to believe that anyone who has owned a business would extol such perspectives, but stranger things are possible.
I appreciate my customers to the extreme. What I do is in no way a necessity and it is all referral, so yes very much. But I owe them nothing nor they, me. Gratitude or otherwise. That is how free trade works. Both sides win, not just one.
Of the business owners I know, none feels entitled to anything except the right to keep what they earned. None of them are fortunate enough to be most favored by the government, so no, they don't feel particular appreciative of their constant meddling and digging in their pockets.
I hope you have a great time on the slopes. Its been twenty years for me and I doubt I will ever get the chance again. Too old and too tired.
Foolishly I had always hoped and believed that it would all be easier by now but after all we have been through and what we see coming, I don't believe it will come true. At this point any further dependence on government for ANYTHING, be it money or protection, will end badly. So don't pin too much hope on rules or taxes or regulations doing anything for anyone.
"That is how free trade works. Both sides win, not just one."
Not really, ultimately it's a zero sum game; at least more often than not. One person has to lose some labour or wealth for the other to gain. And that "perfect knowledge" that is supposed to be inherent to all parties in a 'free-trade' arrangement most certainly isn't. Unless he's short on supply no fishmonger really wants to 'teach a man to fish'; fuck that shit he says.
C'mon don't be such an absolutist, the above article was obviously a joke.
But you most certainly DO feel entitled to have the publicly funded/overseen police and judiciary to enforce your contracts and protect your property
If both sides are not winning, why would they do it? Or is your perspective that you are only winning if you feel you got something for nothing, or somehow tricked one side into overpaying? To me, winning is getting the job, doing the work and getting paid, with the customer having a big smile on their face. Happens on almost every job. Winning!!!
If I just didn't have to make my estimated income tax payments last week it would have been winning. My hopefully silent partner took their considerable share.
"Or is your perspective that you are only winning if you feel you got something for nothing, or somehow tricked one side into overpaying?"
No, that is not my perspective. Again, it has been my experience that "Perfect Knowledge" is very hard to come by, rather than being low hanging fruit.
For some reason systems that are inherently amoral seem to attract and favour the eminently immoral; go figure. They want mitigating.
"That is how free trade works. Both sides win, not just one."
Gaaaagggg!
EVERY transaction in the marketplace is ADVERSARIAL. The producer would like nothing better than to be able to charge me $2043 for a Number #2 pencil. I would like to get that pencil for NOTHING.
As a consumer, that's how I do it. I treat transactions where I...and I alone WIN. There's some lovely market competition...but I am sure that business doesn't want their customers competing against them at all. Now sell me an annuity...make me believe!
barroter, you sir are an idiot.
Most business outside of the libtard world is ' value for value '. Both sides get what they want. It is that simple.
Maverick
Agreed but he well demonstrates the problem. The sweetest watermelon is the one stolen from the farmer's patch. The thought of actually paying the farmer for his labors is abhorrent to many, as they see the watermelon as a fruit from the earth that the farmer simply tries to capitalize upon, at the consumers expense. He didn't build it...its property of the collective and as such any price extracted by commerce is theft.
Indoctrinated ideologies used a weapon to justify the theft of labor...same as its ever been. The only protection is to have no productive behavior to be stolen, which brings us to where we are today.
There is only one reason we practice any morality at all and that is because in our belief and hope that we should do unto others as we would have them do unto us. Obviously this fails and now days more often than not, but this is the underlying principle that allows us to exist and prosper. If the world is completely adversarial, it will be unbearable.
I do believe that we are competitive, but we need to also understand that we also have to live with one another, and the lack of trust, of shared values and morals prevents that from happening. No absolutes, but trust should be our goal if not our rule.
I get what i want when i WIN in a transaction. That's all that matters. The amount of money I gain by treating all market transactions as adversarial is amazing and fufilling. Every dollar in profit i can deny the seller is MINE. As far as the perception of value goes..here's the only thing I need to perceive, $.
i SHOULD HAVE EXPEXETED MORE. Going NoWhere.
The Literary poet that never knew it? The Brain child of obscurity?
The mediocrity of genius?
You're not worth junking!
It's saturday night? Three sheets to the wind? My frozen knuckles are knumb, so I made with the blancmange? You couldn't afford the kbs if I gave you my best stuff anyway, you think you can, but you couldn't.
And, you are entitled to one free trip to the Guillotine where you will see a lot of your associates. My Treat! Such a deal.
Robespierre is that you?
Hey wait, how come he is not killin mass quantities of people? Where is the death? Thank god we have progressive big government to murder hundreds of millions and help sate the blood lust a tiny bit.
https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/20TH.HTM
Progressive big government is the biggest murderer the world has ever seen.
FOAD progressive murdering big government scum/criminal supporters.
Grimaldus
"There are bad forms of government, therefore all forms of government are bad."
yeah, I think your syllogism might need some work.
BINGO! Let's trust our corps and businessmen. If we get rid of gov't, it'll be a panacea! Nothing but good can come from monopolies, cartels and the such. I for one, think business in general has my best interests at heart! They LOVE me! I want coporate states to exist! F the nation-state! One day I want to be a citizen-vassal in the House of Exxon, or say the House of Archer Daniels Midland! If neccessary, I will go to war against EVIL nation-states that might impinge on the desires of the corporate state.
Let's roll back the hands of time when powers that be, like the House of Medici, existed.
I'll have to assume by your tone that you built your computer and all its parts and chips in your garage with rocks found in your backyard.
Why exactly?