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Europe Fractures: France "Prepared To Support Greece" In Debt Renegotiations
Despite Angela Merkel's insistence on numerous occasions this past week that there will be "no debt renegotiations," it appears a schism at the core of Europe is opening. As France24 reports, following a meeting between France's finance minister Michel Sapin and Greece's finance minister Yanis Varoufakis, the press conference had a considerably more amicable tone that Friday's Dijsselbloem dissing. "France is more than prepared to support Greece," Sapin said adding that Greece’s efforts to renegotiate were "legitimate." Sapin urged a "new contract between Greece and its partners."
France’s Socialist government offered support Sunday for Greece’s efforts to renegotiate debt for its huge bailout plan, amid renewed fears about Europe’s economic stability.
The backing was a victory for Greek Finance Minister Yanis Varoufakis, holding talks with European officials to push for new conditions on debt from creditors who rescued Greece’s economy to save the shared euro currency. Worries have mounted that Greece’s new far left government might not pay back its debts.
Varoufakis is also visiting London and Rome – and said Sunday that he would visit Berlin. The German government has been particularly angry at the new Greek government’s position and bluntly rejected suggestions that Greece should be forgiven part of its rescue loans.
Varoufakis insisted that Greece wants to pay the money back, but said he wants new terms and new negotiating partners, arguing that “it’s not worth” discussing with the so-called “troika” of creditors who set the strict terms for Greece’s rescue.
France’s Socialist leadership, whose president has campaigned against austerity, presented itself Sunday as a possible mediator between Greece and creditors.
French Finance Minister Michel Sapin insisted his country wouldn’t support canceling the debt, but offered support for a new timeframe or terms.
“France is more than prepared to support Greece,” Sapin said after meeting Varoufakis, saying Greece’s efforts to renegotiate were “legitimate.” Sapin urged a “new contract between Greece and its partners.”
* * *
Perhaps Merkel should remember her nation's own history?
Marina Prentoulis, a senior lecturer at the University of East Anglia and Syriza’s London spokesman, said that Europe’s austerity drive had left an entire generation in Greece with “no future”.
"We are not going to enforce the austerity programmes, what we call the memoranda, it created a huge humanitarian crisis, she said. People have been working all their lives and their pensions have been slashed to 40pc," she told the BBC's Andrew Marr Show.
"We have huge unemployment – 27pc. And 60pc for young people. This means that they have created a generation that has effectively no future. They have destroyed any employment rights. So this has to stop. This programme Syriza has pledged is not going to be enforced any more."
Angela Merkel, the German Chancellor, has ruled-out cancelling more of Greece's national debt, which has climbed to more than 175pc of gross domestic product (GDP). However, Ms Prentoulis said Germany should "remember it’s own history".
"In 1953 a big part of the German debt was written off and then the repayments were associated with growth. This is what Syriza is asking for Greece as well," she said.
* * *
European Dis-Union once again!!!
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Support, with what? Unlimited supply of Spiderman towels??
Shakes, burgers and pitchforks
After seeing the details of the "New Deal for Europe," I'm not a bit surprised that the French are aligning.
As long as the options are within the realm of OPM, they are NOT an alternative to the collectivist status quo.
Yes, it looks increasingly attractive for Germany to exit, but is that even possible? Even Germany is a bloated welfare state.
Varoufakis’ intent is to economically reconfigure Europe (indeed a “New Deal”). His 4-stroke plan, which he says doesn't involve monetization and doesn't require a new treaty, in a nutshell:
- Have the ECB convert troubled States’ so-called “Maastricht Compliant” debt (public debt up to 60% of GDP) into “ECB-bonds”, to be purchased by investors and held in respective member states’ debit account.
- Massive issuance of bonds by the European Investment Bank and European Investment Fund, "bought in large quantities by the ECB in the secondary market" (6m58s), to finance infrastructure/green projects in EU.
- Transfer to the ECB-ESM the responsibility/risk of (failed) European banks, seen as a step towards a full-fledged banking union.
- A “European Food Stamp” program (“modelled on its US equivalent”) funded by the European Commission.
Here is Varoufakis' “Modest Proposal”. If you appreciate the art of manipulative language, you’ll especially like the conclusion.
PS: he also talks of QECB as a "water pistol facing a huge bush fire" (6m46s). My apologies for the repost; too important.
New Deal, build guillioutines!
The fucked supporting the more fucked.
ole charlie hebdo better lock their doors now....another message must be on the way, oui?
Debt restructing will do nothing more than give the banksters more time to steal more real assets, via money created from thin air.
Fuck the Banksters, to hell with Goldman Sachs, the Fed Reserve etc.
France is siding with Greece because France will be begging for a bailout approx 85x larger than Greece's in less than 14 months.
Germany's taxpayers will be stuck with a PIIGS+FUK ginormous bailout "EU Together Kumbaya" bill that will take Germany down if they agree and/or try to pay even 1/8th of it.
Is this the play book: pretend Grexit is going to happen at the end of February. Roil the markets. Greece stays in, but over Germany's protests.
The terms are unbearable to Berlin as Spain, Portugal and Italy seek to renegotiate and we see a summer of discontent. Then, in the fall, Germany can no longer countenance being a part of the EU.
Germany exits, the unthinkable happens. The EU is preserved but without its biggest economic engine. All economic hell breaks loose, circa fall 2015.
Crazy? Perhaps. But I was already thinking this and this article brings it into sharper focus.
France is also straining against the russian sanctions.
they built 2 massive warships (about $4 billion apeice if i remember - too lazy to google my homework here) but had to halt delivery cozzov the economic blockade
FUKPIIGS.
Thanks TIS, was wanting to bring it all togeter
It's Zee Bankers! No, it's Zee Communists! No, it's Zee Capitalists AND Communists!
No, its Zeeeee [You know the drill]!!!
There must be French banks holding debt that will be unpayable otherwise. So they want their at risk debt assets socialized onto some taxpayers so they don't have to take the hit.
The majority in France work for the government one way or another so they're all paying tax to each other until the friction costs grind them to zero
...new conditions on debt from creditors who rescued Greece’s economy to save the shared euro currency.
...new conditions on debt from creditors who DESTROYED Greece’s economy to save the shared euro currency.
Fixed! :-)
Well done young man. Insightful and snarky too.
The natural state of mind of the average Greek and French person is simply not to be fucked with. They will spite you til the end for self-preservation and in this instance, it is needed.
@ WB:
One of my favorite people (Lt. Commander Data) summed it up best:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWoPdZ986oo
Everything I Thought I 'Needed To learn' I Got From 'Star Trek'.
Sincerely,
MontgomeryScott
at this rate germany is more likely to leave the EU than greece, unless they don't mind paying for a welfare union.
Germany wouldn't be alone to pay for Greece.
Many European countries would also be implied, on the basis of their respective proportionate shares in the ECB - Germany representing 27.15%, France 20.39% (probably would have to pay 40-50 Md Euros), Italy 17.92% (30-40 Md Euros), Spain 11.90% etc ...
The rumour of a Northern (German-led?) and Southern (France-led?) euro split is looking a lot more likely this year.
And the real clincher would be a linking of that " northern tier" with the Russia-China trade zone ( come on Canada, dump the USSA)
That would cause Amerika to invade the Sudentenland of Fair Kanada
Up to now Greece has received 6 times the debt reduction Germany received in 1953... just to keep things right...
Up to now Greece has received 6 times the debt reduction Germany received in 1953... just to keep things right...
The way things are going, maybe Germany will be the first to exit the Euro.
That would be pretty sweet for my Euro shorts.
It's almost BTFD'er crucifying time!!
Go Germany!
Here is Mr. Panos' take on the matter with respect to Germany:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zvl9N9GdraQ
Anybody seen Ghordius lately?
It's 11:28pm Sunday night his time... (but he was around during more respectable posting hours earlier today)
He will have some comment that has precious little to do with anything -- and then wear you out by dodging direct questions until the sorry is on page 3 and no one follows it anymore.
Mark my words -- when the emz falls apart -- hell never log in again.
I see politicians (and dead people) in Europe, not Leaders.
The Architects will get their desired crisis, but even if the politicians manage a stick save instead of solution-- it just moves Europe from a financial pawn to be sacrificed to a military pawn to be sacrificed.
sigh... - I was posting some comments on Sunday, for example here ZH: It's Greece vs Wall Street (comment-5731663)
but no, I dislike more and more to post on weekends, or when it's later. or at all. on in such threads where it's all about wishes, and fervent wishes, like heywood2's: "The way things are going, maybe Germany will be the first to exit the Euro. That would be pretty sweet for my Euro shorts."
in fact, I dislike more and more to post comments on ZH at all. I mean, look at your accusation. Part one, "He will have some comment that has precious little to do with anything". Seriously? If it was so, I would be completely ignored, or dismissed as some of the "artistic trolls" like MDB. And I won't even go into the second part, I am posting since years on threads that went on for weeks
in fact, I'd go as far as complain that it's you that would like to wear me out, with questions that are often OT
to come back to the article: the French FinMin is showing some support for the Greek FinMin. oh, my goodness, what surprise/S
and this is really the maximum of comment that can be given, imho. there is simply "no beef", here. the logic of the Greek FinMin demand is that the current Greek debt issue is more important then the Greek budget for 2015 and later. that's... it
in the greater scheme of things, the currency war is progressing, and several small/medium currencies have become heated battlefields. meanwhile, the fabled EUR QE gives the EuroSystem NCBs plenty of potential ammunition for tactical purposes. The SNB is "shooting at inroads", too. But no, the whole comment section here is about EUR breakup, and other fervent wishes
I think I'll soon go in vacations and possibly won't come back to ZH at all, or restrict my comments to the very minimum, and ignore questions completely, except from a couple of serious commenters
-----
some selected phrases from the Greek Finance Minister:
"A Syriza government will leave the private creditors alone. After all they hold less than 20% of our debt. It makes no sense to open a front against them, with all the legal ramifications that would entail. The fact that the bulk of the debt is in the hands of the official sector means that, if there is the political will, it can be restructured in a long afternoon."
here of course it's important to note that the official sector debt does not pay dividends until 2023
"Do we want to live in a European Union which sees it as its task to beat proud nations into a pulp so as to keep other nations in a state of debilitating terror? We have faced such dilemmas before and responded magnificently. We must do so again."
here I note some praise for "magnificent" responses by the EU. does not sound like an anti-EU proponent, does he?
"If it is in my power to determine,” he explains, “Greece will neither want to leave the euro nor threaten to do so. We should not have entered the euro – this is crystal clear, but once in, the Eurozone is disastrous to get out voluntarily."
From his own words, he thinks that Greece should not have joined the EUR, but should not exit it, too
"That does not mean we should lower our heads and do as we are told lest we are thrown out. No, we should veto misanthropic policies within the euro, demand debt restructuring within the euro, and never give them the opportunity to claim that we opted out of the euro voluntarily. If they want us out, they should kick us out with no help from us. In so doing, however, they will be bringing down their own houses too…"
as a reminder, he sees himself as an expert on Game Theory. As such, here an attempt to reverse a perceived "Prisoner's Dilemma". As such, a classic bargaining stance similar to those I experienced often in Greece, Russia, etc. Part and parcel of Greek culture, with similarities to those all around the eastern board of the Med
I'll wait until he presents the new Greek budget to the Greek Parliament. That will be his first serious move beyond criticism of other's (I might read his Minotaur book, though)
my question to him is simple: will you balance your budget? if not, then you have to take up fresh debt. who will you ask for more?
And as I wrote above, perhaps I'll refrain from comment at all, or in details, in the future. cheers, ZH
Hey Ghordius,
Sorry to hear the person that contributed so much to Zerohedge feels disappointed.
Personally I decided to cut down on caffeine (which I stop for 6 months), porn and Zerohedge.
Everything in moderation, Ghordius. Maybe you posted too much and you have some kind of of burn-out ?
( I am not kidding )
Enjoy your holidays and rejuvenate yourself !
I decided to stop coffee for 6 months, but allow myself tea ( which contains caffeine as well ).
You mean your speedos?
the real history lesson for merkel is that forced austerity gave rise to hitler
For todays supplemental bonus reading, here is a great document discussing the Reichstag fire:
http://www.jrbooksonline.com/pdf_books/reichstag_fire.pdf
bailouts socialize the bankers and do nothing for the people. the way to enforce austerity is to not bail out the maggot bankers. let them fail. abolish the imf. let the bond market work. create a bankruptcy system which isn't punitive after the fact but rather cuts off the borrowers beforehand with ever higher rates and actual market risk to both sides.
Finally, we have the explosive reasoning needed for the Greek Eurozone conflict: it’s Hitler!
And in keeping with the Nazi theme, echoed by those supporting here the international bankers, we have a dramatic, resurrected revelation about …not the Greek/French relationship…but the Reichstag Fire!
And who brings us this view which will blow away all the discussion so far on this topic, it’s the 1963 English translation of The Reichstag Fire by Martin Secker & Warburg Limited.
You can’t make this stuff up. Fortunately, there are other histories of Germany in the 30s and early 40s than the Zionist lie.
And, by the way, Hitler lost the election of 1932.
Actually he never did win an election, not even with the full power of the state and media behind him in March 1933; he fell short of a majority (43%) and still needed a coalition partner to keep being in majority. Of course, that's when he had the luminous idea 'what if we ban all other parties'...
Hitler’s appointment as chancellor came when his party started fading in the polls, and had dropped from 37 to 31% in the 1932 elections (the year he also lost the presidential election 60-40 to Hindenburg). In short, Hitler never won an election but was appointed in a shady backroom deal with conservative monarchists and industrialists (whom he quickly stabbed in the back).
In the second round of the 1932 election (Weimar Republic law provided that a candidate needed to receive an absolute majority of votes), the German voters elected Paul von Hindenburg of the Independent Party. Hindenburg appointed Hitler under political pressure as Chancellor of Germany in January 1933.
Hitler didn’t succeed Hindenburg as head of state until two years later, when Hindenburg's death brought his term to a premature end in 1934. It was after the president's death that Hitler abolished the office entirely to replace it with the new position of Führer und Reichskanzler ("Führer and Reich Chancellor"), and cemented his dictatorship.
The only election that the Nazi party could claim was produced in 1933 following the Reichstag fire, a period of almost emergency governmental control whereby “the NSDAP had via special laws already the ability to not only suppress the opposition, but outright hunt it.
By the way, can anyone suggest how we can beat down this recurring theme used by the Zionists, that the German people elected Adolf Hitler? All the reputable history books have the details.
Warburg, indeed, the family name that brought us that creative crime, The Federal Reserve.
And this has a bearing on the Greek crisis, how?
Oh, those "Zionists".
Hitler used to talk about the "Communists" in the same way.
Those dirty curly haired, hook nosed "Communists".
Your kids are picking up on the message you are putting out, pops. The Amerikan Youth know what you mean.
many or most of the leaders of attempted Communist coups in both Germany and Russia were Jewish - with Jews certainly making up a very disproportionate amount of the early Bolsheviks. Jews were also prominent in the communist movements of Hungary, France, the US and elsewhere.
But it's cute you think that your HuffPo-level glibness will impress anyone here.
I bet you're the sort of asshole who doesn't think the neocons were mostly Israel-Firster Zionist Jews because Bush and Cheney aren't Jews.
Fuck you forever with that hackneyed hasbara hogwash, Sally.
As for the Zionists - why who could find fault with their racism, racialism, ethnocentrism, supremacism, and total disregard for "non-Zionist" human life, since the Book of Joshua was first put on parchment?
hugs and kisses!
what is the account of the Reichstag fire in the book you mention ?
Maybe it is worthwile to have a look at the chapter on the Reichstag fire in following book :
Deception operations : Studies in the East-West Context. Author : David Charters (1990).No, the real lesson is "When large banks win, the People lose".
But they do not want to to know that. And those who do know it, are supposed to be distracted with noise, BS and the Circus.
I'd be willing to bet Merkel knows that.
I love the slap in Merkel's face about Germany's own debt history!!
-30-
"This time it's different" -Angela Merkel-
Germany unilaterally ceased payments on long-term borrowings on May 6, 1933, three months after Adolf Hitler was installed as Chancellor. The default helped cement Hitler’s power base following years of political instability as the Weimar Republic struggled with its crushing debts...
And 5 years later there was full employment in Germany and the country was the most advanced of all Europe if not the world. You can say what you want about Hitler but he knew what he was doing and he did it right. I guess puting the jews asside has its economic advantages...
Sheldon Emry explains in his paper, “Billions for the Bankers, Debts for the People," how it was done in Germany, and could be done even in case the US monetary system collapses and our currency becomes as worthless as was the Weimar Republic’s.
Germany’s solution after the hyperinflation of the Weimar Republic was to use debt-free and interest-free money from 1935 and on. As a result, Germany rose from depression to a world power within five years.
“Germany financed its entire government and war operation from 1935 to 1945 without gold and without debt,” says Emry, “and it took the whole capitalist and communist world to destroy the German power over Europe and bring Europe back under the heel of the bankers...
"Issuing money which doesn't have to be paid back in interest leaves the money available to use in the exchange of goods and services and its only continuing cost is replacement as the paper wears out. Money is the paper ticket by which such transfers are made and should always be in sufficient quantity to transfer all possible production of the nation to ultimate consumers.
"Money issued in such a way would derive its value in exchange from the fact that it had come from the highest legal source in the nation and would be declared legal to pay all public and private debts, issued by a sovereign nation, not in danger of collapse..."
End the Fed, cut the lines of credit that form the ropes of bondage that bind us to the international bankers.
The prewar German economy was a giant farce. It was a humungous credit bubble based on MEFO Bills.
The famed "order" present in the third reich was a similar charade, both required WAR to obfuscate the reality of the situation, not that it matters on a site full of Nazi sympathiers, zio-conspiracy-fetishists and NWO fantasists..
Quiet, don't disturb the Fourth Reich.
And then you get crushed.
The rest of the world crushes you.
The rest of the world doesn't like nazis.
Slow servers at ZH resulted in hitting the Save button twice and a double post. Sorry about that . . .
-30-
... the positions of the Left in Greece, Spain and Europe, are very clear and focus on the real nature of the economic war, which is basically a class war. Therefore, there is a need for the creation of a strong, unified front by the European people against plutocrats who impose the destructive policies in every country.
Smack down in Greek town:
Ring Announcer: Welcome, fight fans,…the World Bankers Boxing Association (WBBA) is proud to bring you the Grudge Match of the Century: Smack down in Greek town.
In the red corner, wearing no trunks, is Greece, a 92 pound weakling debtor who is screaming "enough is enough, I'm not gonna take it anymore".
In the blue corner, wearing royal blue Christian Dior trunks is the Troika, three heavyweight creditors who are shouting "Heel, you disobedient Greek dog! Sit up and beg like a good EU dog.''
Under WBBA rules, the debtor fights alone against the creditor's 3-man tag team (IMF, EU, ECB).
Place your bets, fight fans. The bookies are offering a million-to-one odds against Greece.
Grab your feta or foie gras as this fight of the century is about to begin, pitting Nothing-to-Lose Greece vs Everything-to-Lose Troika.
Tonight's referee is Christian Noyer, chairman of the Board of the Bank of International Settlements.
(Round 1 bell rings)
Ring Announcer: The fight begins. Greek Finance Minister Yanis Varoufakis comes charging to the center of the ring. Eurogroup Chief Jeroen Dijsselbloem appears hesitant and remains near his corner.
Whoa! What is this! Greek Yanis has taken off his gloves!
Yanis raises his two bare-knuckled fists at Eurogroup Dijsselbloem.
This arena full of bankers is going wild with whining. Pandemonium is breaking out.
Priceless!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I can't wait for the day when Germany picks up its ball and goes home telling everyone else to go to hell. I've done business all over Europe and the Germans are the most disciplined, hardest working people in Europe. Yea they have their faults (which country doesn't?) but asking Germans to pay the bills for everyone else is too much. Germany should go independent, make nice with Russia, and stop caring so damn much about how they are perceived by everyone else. They already have a great relationship with China and they get alone fine with the U.S. too. They know how to do the right thing. JUST DO IT ALREADY!
A northern Euro has my vote (as a Dutchy).
Absolutely correct. As an Irish Paddy.
that would be great, but they are controlled by a higher authority than the german government, just like the ussa is.
their ultimate goal is to break down all nation states and create a new world order. the EU is a kind of practice run. that is why it is essential for it to fail, buy they would have merkel (the nwo tool) drive germany into the ground before allowing that.
If people would stop 'looking at the world through a soda straw' and spend some time reading history, they'd be far more aware of that is going on than they currently are...
First an individual has to face two mutaully exclusive explanations of an event and determine which, if either, is correct. This may lead to questioning sources long held as reliable.
It starts from there, and you cant drop hints.
It's hard to question long held truths.
I hear there's a football game giong on...
Germany is also an occupied country, and its leaders seem to be 100% committed to both NATO and the NWO.
No matter how good, honest, industrious, etc. the people are, as usual it's the bank-captured government that's the problem.
How lucky for us you were able to see through their dastardly plan..
The ZWO is a parasite within the NWO, and provides much of the funding and media manipulation.
The NWO is a shell for the Pharisees.
Not so fast, wealthy sumbitch; Germany's "wealth" consists largely of PIIGS debt. See how this works? It's just paper, and Varoufakis knows it.
Can't support his socialist bent, but he knows exactly how to defeat the troika and Brussels- ignore their claim of right, and they evaporate.
The intent is to issue Euro-bonds. Then they can all have more free money. The problem is that the ECB cant issue Euro-bonds because it would be used to fund governments. So, ya. Thats what France, Spain, Italy, and everyone but Germany wants and have wanted since the beginning. Treaty or no.
So who's the referee of authority? Write off a few trillion and so what?
Get the rating agencies to agree that all is well and carry on the plunder. Call an end QE(x) and substitute with the new and improved QWERT.
I dont see any organized withdrawel from the Fed or the EU. It's like pulling out a tick that has it's head attached permanently to you.
Dont forget - if things get too out of control war with Russia is a seroius option.
Wealthy sumbitch musta redded me, but I hear what he's sayin'.
Germany can't just take their ball and go home though, they've got too much invested (they think) in this EU thingy. Looks sure now that the EU will fail- it's just a matter of time... and then Buba will be totally insolvent 'cos all those "assets" are not real in the first place.
When I said (they think) I meant that cutting loose now is less costly than trying to press on- but it seems inevitable that they will do just that.
Thx for the reply, bbq!
Not that easy. German GDP is 50% export. Try doing that while in the middle of a trade war with the rest of Europe. Taking the side of the deadbeat that borrowed to much or the financial wizard that lent too much is stupid.
why did the greek boy run away from home?
he didnt like the way he was being reared
Can we try to keep on track and not get into childish and inaccurate stereotypes, please?
Sometimes even a sick chuckle helps out at times. Go with it and move on. Besides.... can you say that "every " post on ZH has been serious?? I get a ton of laughs from some commentators.
Why did the Greek boy return home? He couldn't leave his brother's behind.
Riddle me this my politically correct misnomered friend...
If stereotypes are inaccurate, then how did they become stereotypes?
I mean, at some point someone would say: " Why, that's entirely not true, I know a lot of Irish and none of them drink." The stereotype would fail on it's lack of merit and would cease to be a stereotype.
That's because nobody has ever said that. A stereotype is merely an exaggeration of a cultures tendency to have a large portion of it's number to have a certain trait.
It is not meant to have the same accuracy as a census and is generally used as a punchline to a joke. Most people with an IQ above room temperature know this.
Go find a real battle to fight and stop reaching for the low hanging fruit of "somebody's feelings could be hurt".
The French are broke too, also their banks are heavily involved in the Greek debt debacle, hence the offer to 'help' avoid a Greek default.
All the money spent lobbying for Fracking is finally starting to pay off.... Frack them all.
Not so much:
Credit Agricole has sold its Greek subsidiary (Emporiki), and Societe Generale also has sold its Greek subsidiary( Geniki)
> their banks are heavily involved in the Greek debt debacle
French and German banks unloaded all their greek debt onto the Troika. Foreign banks now own <1% of the greek debt.
When the EU breaks apart America is going to be ok because America will always be ok. Go America.
No sarc tag?
Shit man go America. Big trucks big guns ain't nobody gonna fuck with me. Yeehaw!
Got ammo?
Big trucks & big guns.....
Stand well back, wait for the gas to run out, the populaton to be full of holes and lead, then move in and grab what's left.
Go America!
A-mer-ee-KAH has sophisticated leadership, and a desperate population which does what it's told.
Fuck YEAH, America will be OK!
France also said NEIN to forgiveness / haircuts / writeoffs. They said they will consider longer terms, maybe renogotiate terms, but no to reductions - so no fracture as I read it.
NIRP it all. Let the debt eat itself.
They will renegotiate, and Argentina will be the model. Tsipras was in Buenos Aires not too long ago. Vultures, their fans and associates are, of course, enraged. Their reaction here, soon. Expect a lot of vitriol, as usual. Best regards. Snake.
Vultures are nature's clean up crew. A messy but very neccessary task.
Vulture funds should be re-named Parasite funds. More accurate.
Ah the euro. It had a good run. Ten years is longer than most fiat currencies have been. Asia, South America, Russia, they've already had currency crisis. Now it's Europe and America's turn.
Average lifetime of fiat is about 40 years.
Fantastic - as usual! Thanks WilliamBanzai7!
Through me you go into eternal pain
Through me you go amongst the lost people
Abandon every hope, ye that enter here
<-- Forget Europe, it's Superbowl Sunday! And if you don't like the Superbowl you're either gay or a terrorist.
<-- Fuck the Superbowl and the brainwashed lemmings who watch it.
Superbowl?
Is that some really fancy item to eat your cornflakes out of?
Yes.
Now bend over you flake!
Nope. It's where you take a giant crap.
Similar to Colon Blow
https://screen.yahoo.com/colon-blow-000000540.html
(apologize for yahoo link)
<-- Forgive me. Queers and terrorists who like the Superbowl can vote here.
Using jewish Lazards to untangle jewish Goldmans fine work. They've learnt nothing.
The debt is the visible accumulation of all past unsustainable activities.
The greater problem however is that of all the unfunded liabilities going forward.
So while debt can be eliminated with some pain, the most excruciating pain is reserved for those who have an expectation that the future will give them full pensions and full medical and for those who think that governments will not make further attacks on their savings, assets and private pension funds to cover shortfalls in order to meet promises.
Exactly the way I see it --
Greece has not paid one Euro worth of principal or interest on this debt.
They just roll existing debt over and add the interest on top - PLUS BORROW MORE ON TOP OF THAT.
Greeks voted in the guy that promised them the most free shit -
Higher wages - more government jobs - restore pensions -
This money will come from where?
Not from savings on debt payments because they have never made one.
They could just say - fine we will forgive repayment for 5 years - give you a chance to get your house in order - but no new loans.
Greek people would be starving within 2 months.
Greece is like an American family that lives off of an EBT card and still runs up credit card debt.
Just because MasterCard writes off the CC balance doesn't mean your life style doesn't get reduced.
It's more basic than that, and it is more useful to think of it as the inevitable and anticipated outcome of the Fiat Casino.
We're now arguing which players in the Grand Casino deserve their losses more than others.
The problem isn't so much the players, as is the Casino itself and its visible and invisible owners.
Perspective and Clarity, peeps. Perspective and Clarity.
I see a point about fiat currency -
But Greece can't print money - yet they are still in way over their heads.
My view is also simple
Countries should not run up giant deficits.
The thing that burns my ass is the way people talk about "austerity" - Obama is also out today -calling it "mindless austerity".
We have a $500 billion dollar deficit yet thinks the government isn't spending enough. We have never as a country spent more on free shit than we are right now - yet we are living a life of mindless austerity.
It's possible that the French finmin believes that Yanis' proposal makes more sense than what the troika wants. Everything I've heard him say so far seems reasonable and in the best interest of the people of Europe, if not in the interest of the 1%.
A war will pull Europe back together, a war with Russia. And if Europe won't pull together then they'll just blow it up. Lots of business for american contractors in the reconstruction..
I don't think fiat will be accepted by the troops in the next one. US fiat will be no better. Wouldn't it be great if the mofos threw a war and couldn't find anyone to fight. Maybe we could throw the "leaders" and their banksters in a cage with weapons (razor sharp) called machetes. Last one standing gets a bounced check.
A fella can dream.
I get it. This means that Greece might default on possibly some of its debt which depends on whether or not the debt is actually restructured on paper with one or more existing underwriters of the debt that they can't pay back, but they might be able to pay back because it can be made to look like it isn't a default by borrowing against debt that was initially lent to Greece as part of a ponzi scheme that is or is not coming apart because it is based on if an interperable judgment can be assertained in lui of the fact that bankers have been placed outside the rule of law and whether or not lawyers will be able to determine what the true meaning of is is.
This all adds up to the question that Q99X2 has been asking since 2010: Does this mean that Greece is going to default?
After 4 years of hearing about Greece and their possible default I wil have to give my guess as a big NO. Greece is not going to default, at least not in public.
Greece's Finance Minister appears to be a man who is reasonable and intelligent. He is effectively saying "You can't get blood from a stone"
The beaurocrats who represent Troika have no moral foundation or compassion, it is all about money and their perverse legal codes.
Life is for living, not to be suffering at the hands of those who do not care.
What backs the euro?
"What backs the euro?"
Answer: The square root of jack sh*t!
A more interesting question to ask would be "what backs each of the member states?"
Answer: Look to their gold holdings and take heed of their repatriation programmes...
What backs the dollar? The yen? The ruble? All fiat currencies are plain fried air and soon, we will know it.
9/11 Truth: The NIST “no molten metal” guy posing by steel with unexplained melting (PHOTOS)
This only appears to be off topic, but is not, since each of these crimes were committed by the same perps, the NOGCC.
The Network of Global Corporate Control.
The Greeks don't want to renegotiate, they want to default, and they should. The madness neds to stop, Iceland style.
A default takes care of the past but what will take care of the future if Greeks and the Greek government cannot live within their means?
And this question is not relevant just for the Greeks but for all nations and their people.
I'm sure Goldman has a shitty deal covering all scenarios.
If the Greeks or any European nation had control of its own currency then its leaders would be held responsible for fiscal and financial policy (like it's been done for hundreds of years. Passing over control of a nation's money to a foreign entity is beyond insane.
Would you give a stranger control of your bank account and all your property, would you give ex your credit cards?
Perhaps incidently, this is why City of London bankers have been responsible for the demise of manarchys that weren't under their control. The original EU was proposed at the Council of Venice after Napoleon's defeat. Rothchilds never forgave or forgot the Russian emporer for not submitting the Russian Bank to their control. That was history and that is today.
I'm sure that Putin knows this history far better than I.
Everybody knows its all a fraud. Even after the guy from Greece said it in plain words. In comes some French turd pretending its not. Openly talking about flushing moar of thier own peoples efforts down the shitter. Both sides and the Germans too. JHFC its like asking a hooker and pimp about dealing with your wife.
France , Spain and Italy SEE the writing on the wall and so do the SCREWBALL Money Changers.
' Vlad the Ships are ready for inspection ' say's ONE TERM Hollande .
' Will have to enforce the 20% late fee ' retorts Vlad in a still pissed tone.
' By the way Francois , am happy to hear you got that monkey off of your back; get yer ARSE over here and let's discuss who else is on board . '
FUCK THE EU
If it comes to that it'll be Marine discussing with Vlad who else they can do business with.
The only Russian with much to say to Hollande at that stage will be the Siberian prison guard demanding to know if Hollande has anything to say for himself before they blow his brains out and bury him in the taiga beside Merkel and Poroshenko.
If a person earns $15,000 a year - but add $5,000 per year in credit card debt and pay day loans - never actually paying any principal or interest - just getting an additional credit card to borrow from.
Is this person better off or worse off when the companies holding the debt write them off?
And then stop loaning them additional money?
Since Greece has never paid any of the debt or any interest - why does writing the debt off even matter to the average Greek?
we in the usa have a word for that situation. it's called "bankrupt".
Call it whatever you want - but the party doesn't stop as long as someone will keep loaning them money.
Then they are forced to live on what they earn -
That is much more painful than living off what you earn plus what you can borrow.
It is called roll over risk - it is what actually causes most business bankruptcies.
here's the thing. the banks loaned them the money. the banks always get bailed out no matter how much they lend. do you really think the banks ever want to stop lending to ANYONE given the current bailout regime? What you are suggesting is without the parasite bankers lending obscene amounts of money and then the imf, ecb, and whoever else buying that crap from them when it all goes south that greece is the one who is in trouble? is that what you are telling me?
Up until very recently there hasn't been a real alternative to the monolithic Western banks. Now with Russia, China and some other big players something useful may evolve.
But as per history, bloody wars start because of such challeanges to the money system.
Do the Greeks spend more than they earn???
Does the current "AUSTERITY" people are complaining about include the extra spending because they borrow money?
What happens when they can't borrow more???
What if that guy's brother had a lot of nice things that be sold off at a pawn shop and the guy was hiw brother's caretaker?
If Greece had no state assets that could be stolen none of this would be happening. It's all about large scale theft, done by the banking cartel, and subsidized if need be by any taxpayer anywhere in the system. Germans pay for Greece, Americans pay for Germans...
It's really a clever system, and it's so big that nobody can see it. (If you do you'll be called a bad name).
Varoufakis should give Germany and the others a choice between his 4-stroke-plan, and Greece's 40-caliber plan.
Calling the "Dancing Mossads." You're need in France again. Bring your false-flag bag of tricks.
This time utilize the talents of Gene Rosen, and Robbie Parker.
The banksters need to repay us.
Germany, given it's history, is not in a position to dictate terms to anyone as long as there are still people alive who suffered in Auschwitz and the other camps and people who lost loved ones in the fighting.
Germany is fortunatethe rest of the world didnt insure they would be like Somalia, but chose to forgive and give them another chance. Germany forgets too easily.
I see. So I should shut my trap forever because some psychopath held a gun to my father's head?
Americans will be saying exactly the same thing in a generation (or two).
How much do you actually know about the history of continental Europe between the death of Hitler in the spring of 1945 and the passage of the Marshall Plan in the spring of 1948?
I resent people using Auschwitz to make their own personal political points. My grandfather died at Auschwitz.
It's a long fall out of those guard towers.
Ja! If only Germany were allowed to 'EVVA' forget. The USSA and Israel are so entrenched in the country ( nailgun ) that they will keep this monkey dangling 'till DEATH do 'em part.
French railroad just agreed to $60 million reparations to offspring (if that's the correct term) of survivors. It doesn't end.
Auschwitz was a concentration, and labor camp, not the genocidal monster extermination camp, that your educators would have you believe.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-Kl6RHKIQk
If an individual did what a country did, go next door, point a gun at the head of the household while his firends raped and murdered the kids, we would be clamoring for the death penalty or at the very least life imprisonment.
If a country does it and it is called war, it is OK?
Do YOU have any idea how many women have been raped and children killed in proximity to US military forces in "wars" over the past 3/4 of a century?
In many survivors' minds, whether it was specifically US troops committing the crime is somewhat beside the point, because THEY blame US Foreign and Military policy for creating the hostile environment.
Now, when the USSA ceases to be the sole hegemon and fear of the US no longer insulates YOU, do YOU really want to be taken to task for the past sins of YOUR GOVERNMENT?
Because it doesn't matter who YOU voted for;
or whether YOU sat at home with your thumb up your ass on election day...
It is YOUR GOVERNMENT, and YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR IT.
YOU bear PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY for EACH and EVERY sin, crime and atrocity committed by the pet super power of the fascist corporatist oligarchy in THEIR pursuit of MOAR.
There are reasons why professional soldiers and terrorists/freedom fighters alike sort their prisoners or hostages BY NATIONALITY.
Or to use familair words from September 16, 2001 in their proper, broader, and more internationally understood context,
"God Bless America. No, no, no, not God Bless America. GOD DAMN AMERICA!"
/rant
Voting for persons others have picked out is a waste of time along with tacit approval of the present system.
Not voting (stay at home with thumb up ass) when there are none qualified for the office is prudent and the responsible thing to do.
IMO...
But it has nothing to do with prudence or even reality, it's psychological.
It's like playing Six Degrees of Goldman Sachs to identify them and assign guilt, only there is one degree.
To the guy in Syria or Ukraine who just lost his family- the United States trying to implement regime change in his country, it doesn't even matter if he is personally for or against the kleptocrat Washington wants to remove.
That guy in Syria doesn't care if you voted for Obozo, Mittens, Nader, Paul, Incitatus, or whether you simply "shoveled shit in Louisiana" - you are the flesh and blood embodiment of the United States.
The cost of the loss of US hegemony is going to be far greater than just the financial impoverishment of millions on scale not seen so far in US history.
Do you apply your same reasoning to other nations?
I bet you're absolutely blind to crimes committed when "your" guys do it.
Fuck france, fuck the eu, ecb, imf, this shit needs to go.
I am sooooo fucking sick of this same ole BULLSHIT.
Fuck It !!! Does Anybody have any Balls ?
Oh you do? Oh, and they're in AZ.
And properly inflated !