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It's Greece Vs Wall Street
Submitted by Raul Ilargi Meijer via The Automatic Earth blog,
On the one hand, I’ve written so much about Greece lately I fear I’m reaching overkill. On the other hand, there’s so much going on with Greece, and so fast, that I wouldn’t know here to begin. Moreover, I’m thinking and trying to figure what is what and what is actually happening so much it’s hard to stay focused for more than a short while before something else happens again and it all starts all over. And I’m thinking it must feel that way for the Syriza guys as well.
One thing I do increasingly ponder is that it gets ever harder to see the eurozone survive. In its present shape and form, that is. Damned if you do, doomed if you don’t, is an expression I’ve used before. It’s like this big experiment that a bunch of power hungry Europeans really get off on, that now all of a sudden is confronted with the democracy they all only thought existed in books of history anymore.
But if you take your blind hunger far enough to kill people, or ‘only’ condemn them to lives of misery, they will eventually try to speak up, even if not nearly soon enough. It’s like a law of physics, or like Icarus in, yes, Greek mythology: try to reach too high, and you’ll find you can’t.
What is Brussels supposed to do now? Throw Athens off a cliff? Not respect the voice of the Greek people? That doesn’t really rhyme with the ideals of the union, does it? If they want to keep the euro going, they’re going to have to give in to a probably substantial part of what Syriza is looking for. Or Greece will leave the eurozone, and bust it wide open, exposing its failures, its lack of coherence, and especially its lack of democratic and moral values.
The problem with giving in, though, is that there are large protest demonstrations in Spain and Italy too. Give anything at all to Greece, and the EU won’t be able to avoid giving it to others as well. And by then you’re talking real money.
They called it upon themselves. They got too greedy. They thought those starving Greek grannies would not be noticed enough to derail their big schemes. That claiming “much progress has been made”, as Eurogroup head Dijsselbloem did again this week, would be considered more important than the fact that an entire eurozone member nation has been thrown into despair.
That’s a big oversight no matter how you put it. The leadership can be plush and comfy in Berlin, Paris, Helsinki, but that doesn’t excuse them sporting blinders. And now they know. Or, let’s say, are beginning to know, because they still think they can ‘win this battle’, ostensibly with the aim of deepening the Greek misery even further, while continuing to proclaim that “much progress has been made”.
Not very smart. At least that much is obvious. But what else is? Greek Finance Minister Varoufakis declares in front of a camera that Greece ever paying back its full debt is akin to the Santa Claus story. Less than 24 hours later, PM Tsipras says of course Greece will pay back its debt. Varoufakis lashed out about Syriza not being consulted on EU sanctions against Russia, but shortly after their own Foreign Minister was reported to have said he reached a satisfactory compromise on the sanctions with his EU peers.
Discontent, confusion, or something worse, in the ranks? Hard to tell. What we can tell, however, is that the obvious discomfort with Dijsselbloem, Draghi, and the entire apparatus in Brussels – and Frankfurt – is a fake move. Either that or it’s only foreplay. If Yanis and Alexis want to get anywhere, they’ll need to take on Wall Street and its international, American, French, German, TBTF banks, primary dealers. And if there’s one thing those guys don’t like, it’s democracy.
Syriza is not really up against the EU or ECB, or the Troika, that’s a sideshow. They’re taking the battle to the IMF, a sort of silent partner in the Troika, and the organization that rules the world for the rich and the banks they own. And that, if they had paid a bit more attention and a bit less hubris, could have gone on the way they have, small squeeze after small squeeze, without hardly anyone noticing, until the end of – this – civilization. But no. It had to be more.
It’s going to be a bloody battle. And it hasn’t even started yet. But kudos to all Greeks for starting it. It has to be done. And I don’t see how the euro could possibly survive it.
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This quote could be posted after every Zero Hedge article. Tyler, put this somewhere on the Header.
@ Ghorgius
The EU and ECB are indirectly victims . . . NEIN fucking Nein
They are Facilitators.
interesting point. do you have... evidence? or do you see the bailout as such as the crime, instead of a "victim rescue operation"?
The bailout was an accessory to the crime perpetrated on the Greeks by a conspiracy between the crooked Greek politicians and some equally criminal banks.
Remember the Goldman deal? Do you suppose there were other banks, (maybe even German?), besides Goldman that profited by this giant embezzle?
@ Ghorgeous
Ghordius buddy, pal
Your'e no whore like the deep state ( haha ) (30 pieces of silver - judas , .gov seethrough asswipes ) on here who will do and say anything from the script handed to them by Mid Level Goldman / Booz Puke, HOWEVER,
Motive motive motive to maintain the status quo at ANY COST to humanity is a CRIME.
Folks are not generally greedy and would just like to wake up in the morning with a roof over their heads and provide for their families; anything else like a wee holiday for a day's, week, months graft is not too much to strive for.
The Greek situation where only the best and brightest are able to get out/on ( brain drain ) will cost the country big time in the medium and long terms and all the while, Germany's existing strength in terms of not only finance but industry leadership in many technologies grows, placing further/ additional pressures on the ' weakest link '
Go on Tsipras my Greecian friend,
Tell the fucking parasites to fuck off and leech of some fucker else, and then hang the cunts, twice, just to be fucking sure, and if you see that cancer on humanity skulking round your way Soros, hang the cunt first, ask the questions later.
;-)
You realize your mutual funds probably bought into a tranche of Greek debt by calling it Euro bonds. Yea, go to zero coupon and see those mutual fund returns go negative.
I couldnt give two fucks about mutual funds sheik.
I care about people.
Fuck the EU, fuck the UK, and fuck America. The people, we the fucking 'People' are worth more than this continual shit show of utter fucking filth and depravity foisted on us. See where I'm coming from friend?
'-)
Socialism only works on paper.
And no 'Ism' works on Inthemix friend.
This is beyond fucked up, the collective lives we lead, is it not?
:-)
Excellent post ITM, none of the 'isms' and 'ocracies' describe the human condition.
Greece is a microcosm of people desperate to get the bootheel of bankers off their necks.
There is one decent 'ism'
Anarchism.
Inthemix,
Those mutual funds are owned by relatively small investors in many countries. The writeoffs of the Greek debt that you advocate is simply a tax on investors world wide to make up for Greek theft. But why should you care if lots of people lose moeny from their pension funds if it allows the Greeks to KEEP their benefits flowing?
Almost every country on Earth is insolvent, so by your logic they are all thieves. Why should the Greeks continue suffering attempting to repay that which cannot be repaid?
The current banking system is a sham and a house of cards waiting for a light breeze, it is Greece who has banksters by the short curlies.
Bigo!!!
they are all thieves.
"You realize your mutual funds..."
Assuming alot aren't you? I could care less if mutual funds go negative.
No Electronic Money like IRAs, Bonds, Stocks, 401s, Bank Balances.
If you don't phyiscally own it, you don't OWN it.
Don't Feed it, Buy land, ability to grow food, invest in your family and friends...
Start small. Iceland first, then Greece.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-HL-CmS7KBv0/VM26jZ-X7AI/AAAAAAAAi4U/PDlQ8_9ued...
Market thoughts:
http://thetradingcrucible.blogspot.com/
One thing....if Syriza can provoke some kind of false flag event....assassination or military event against Greece, all of their campaign promise go out the window.
Hmmm. They sure are being provocative.
Are you referring to some event such as the Athens riots where the Greeks decided to burn their own countryment while at work? That was no false flag event, it was just normal communist expression.
It was the DEEP STATE, Aka Gladio type of event. Same for the assasination of their own Golden Dawn boys.
...you know a few years ago I remember thinking that Germany's Constitutional Court was a part of the solution for the Euro Zone (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-02-07/german-top-court-finds-ecbs-omt...) and that they would keep sanity at all costs due to Germany's penchant for fiscal responsibility.
What a fucking lie that was.
Turns out the Germans became a part of the problem.
The Banksters bought off the German Constitutional Court folks to shut up and put up.
So much for impartial thought and taking a stand in Germany.
Now that we know that Germany has No Balls, it's Greece's turn.
I just wonder if Tsipras has the balls he needs when the chips are on the table to really make a difference and throw the final monkey wrench into the destruction of the Euro?
Time will tell and we do live in interesting times no doubt.
So.
What ya got Tsipras?
!
.
"I just wonder if Tsipras has the balls......)
NO! HE DOESN'T.
It may seem childish but it is worth describing what is going on in Greece, Amerika, EU, etc.
Under Basel III there is an inherent race to the top regarding which banks can swim upstream long enough and hard enough to reach the next paradigm of international finance - the post Fed/BIS world - a world where the bankers exist in a pristine extra-legal international climate - almost like a floating palace untethered from the world, yet sublimely able to buoy itself anywhere anytime effortlessly compelling governments, peoples, economies and currencies alike. There are less than 25 seats in this lifeboat and each seat requires that each bank have a sufficient (largest) set of performing assets.
The existential issue however is that the balance sheet for banks is the exact opposite of that of regular people. The money in your bank account has all the concern, worry and value in the world for you, but in a conventional commercial sense it is a liability (obligation) for the bank. The flip side are "assets." For you, the cash is an asset, yet for the bank a loan, mortgage or other indebtedness are their assets.
In order for these prime banks to yield supreme power they must issue, restructure and otherwise overlay the world's wealth and people with debt in order to justify their existence and power. It's a fascinating paradigm not unlike slavery.
A plantation owner can strut around their dominion and occasionally whip, beat or fuck their slaves and reap the rewards every harvest. The slaves on the plantation subsist in this environment until the day the realize they have nothing to lose except their chains by revolting in that the slaver holds nothing except the slaves ignorant obedience.
There is nothing for you in the bankers' floating crystal palace except more debt, more control, more slavery - for you and your children. Go to school - more debt. Buy a car, or "build credit" - more debt. Get a mortgage (french for "death contract") - more debt. By extensions by the mathematics of the dollars themselves are nothing but debt - unpayable paper printed debts.
Maybe Greece or even Croatia's recent debt forgiveness are the first cracks in the Berlin Wall of international debt extinguishment.
In any case, when Apple profits constitute ALL of the Amerikan quarterly growth and 500 billionaires are running the planet into Hell, when the US middle class is being herded off the cliff like a Native American buffalo hunt by the likes of the Democratic (bankster) party and their impotent servants in the republicants it should be clear that nothing is working for the common person in this world.
Never forget who got you and family to these meager and desperate prospects.
The most potent weapon in the hands of the oppressor is the mind of the oppressed.
Steve Biko.
+1 Vision and exposition.
There's your fucking NWO. If you want your nation, you can keep your "nation."
Long as we own and control all.
And starve if you don't comply. Our position is all that matters.
Excellent comments.
We can't do very much about the big banks, but we can keep stacking.
A dose of reality. Nothing that you can do with the Organized Predators because the Preys still believe that can reason with them.
Nations are at various stages morphing into Corporations. If you want to preserve identities and values, go and form your own communities.
Nothing you can do with the Troika. At some stage, when the cost/benefit analysis does not work, they walk too leaving the preys as more collateral damages.
In the world of wealth preservation, you really thing that the Predators do not know that the real value of the Euro (even if held short term) is not just the value of the German Economy.
Just Walk off from debts and not just Talk.
The EU cannot give in to Greek demands. If they do, it will open the floodgates where Ireland, Portugal, Spain, Italy, and France get better terms. The EU has only 2 choices - either throw Greece out of the union and make a fine example of them, or fully federalize the Union into a real empire, and have the EU assume many of the governmental functions now done by individual States. These 2 options are not mutually exclusive.
I don't think Greece is powerful enough to force the EU to either of these two options.
Theoretically, the first part of your comment is correct.
These are the only two options. But no matter how severely the EU would wish to treat the greek bums and make their lives a living hell, and thereby threaten the remainder of their members, they still cannot afford to absorb the combined debts of Ireland, Portugal, Italy, Spain, and perhaps France. It is now in the trillions of euros. And the engine economy of Germany, and to some extent little Finland, and perhaps somewhat the Netherlands and maybe one or two more, there simply is not enough weight to balance the scales.
It was a choice that should have been made when the Euro began 15 years ago. But overtly and totally giving up national sovereignty to a centralized bureaucracy in Brussels would never have passed in national referenda (which would have had to occur on a nation by nation basis), and thus the hard slogging was evaded (which was ever so deceitful exactly because its outcome was so predictable). Now they must pay the piper.
So indeed, these two options are mutually exclusive.
Molon labe, as so many here are wont to say.
How you like it now bitch? :-D
"Greece will repay its debts to the European Central Bank and the International Monetary Fund, Tsipras said in a statement e-mailed to Bloomberg News on Saturday"
Told ya
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-02-01/tsipras-targets-euro-a...
Not that I don't believe you, but do you have a more credible source than Bloomberg?
Sorry but the MSM has a hell of an agenda here, and I don't believe them on anything. (Remember the Greek Fin Min's response after AP's "unanimity" story? And his recent "appalled" response to the "depths of inaccuracy" of the BBC interview, on his blog.) Anything printed by BBG tells me immediately that there is more to the story - usually much more. A reliable alternative source would be more credible to me, if there is one. (Yeah, I know, Google is our friend.)
When I first saw the story this morning, I looked first at Varou's blog. Nothing about that there... yet!
Bullshit. Greece CAN'T pay its debts.
I wonder if these guys are playing "rope a dope" for the first few rounds.
We'd like them to win by KO in the first 2 minutes, but maybe this game is gonna continue a few rounds.
We'll see.
They can pay them......
Bujt it will not be what the oligarks expect!
Probably in troika dollars or chickens or olives or .......
and
And Kiev is anxious to sign a ceasefire
Perhaps. More likely domestic propaganda to feed the algos for Monday.
The Euro will die, and in a last ditch effort for the Nazis to maintain some stranglehold over "Europe" they will form some sort of Northern European Union.... in futile hopes that some competative Southern European Union forms to counter it.
What will most likely happen is, all the countries that don't feel like becoming slaves to the ECB cronies will join whatever Economic system Russia invents.
As Europe is militarily weak and can not really defend its own interests.... Greece will want to join a military power not some fraudulant economic pretender. . . Russia has the gold and military to back/protect its economic activity/interests . . . Europe does not.
Other oppressed Euro Nations will soon follow in Greek footsteps because it is the only logical solution to the problem the Euro created for them.
Gold and precious metals stackers need to keep up on global events.The world is canging fast.Only a small number of us are aware of what's happening.Mainsteam manipulated media doesn't report on it any longer,you need alternative sources.
http://www.tfmetalsreport.com/
The real question is, what companies or entities actually carry the CDS on the Greek debt, and what insurers or re-insurers were stupid enough to insure those bonds?
And, who went and re-hypothecated, and re-re-hypothecated them again?
Just wait a few weeks and wait for the headlines of nail-gunned bankers or jumped-from-30th-story bankers. I'll bring the popcorn.
THAT is the REAL contagion banksters are worried about!
I think the people of Greece are about to light up a grease fire that will go around the globe. At least I hope so. The international banking cartel needs to be destroyed.
Greeks don't fight like heroes, heroes fight like Greeks. Winston Churchill(?)
No matter what you think, it's about way more than the (unlawful) money.
Go Greece!
I think the Greeks have looked at what has happened in Iceland since Iceland told their banks to go take a flying leap and put some bankers in jail.
Well, Iceland is doing very well, thank you.
Hopefully this could start a trend that could spread further than just Europe.
I am no communist by any means and the whole idea of socialism is repugnant to me BUT, anyone who is willing to stand firm and poke a finger in the eye of these bankster bastards has my support and admiration. What the Bankerism actually is, is Fascism (or Corporationism) in it's purist form. Government by and for the powerful, paid for and for the benefit of the powerful.
Who cares where it starts, Euroworld or here, the time has come to strike back against the oligarths.
Arribe!
How much longer until German paratroopers land in Greece and seize government buildings, Greek banks, and key infrastructure - to 'protect' them?
Germany does not have enouth paratroopers to guard the Parthenon and certainly no way to deliver them to Greece. Euro zone militaries are relatively nonexistant.
That was 75 years ago dude.
I think can't pay, won't pay rules prevail!
The bond holders and CDS writers for Greek bonds are on the verge of saying 'How could I have been so stupid getting involved with Greek bonds when I knew they could never be re-paid'! Then imagine sometime in the future when you get to swap out the word 'Greek' with the words 'United States'.
It's Greece vs. Reality. As in, How are you going fund your utopia? (with your own money not Germany's)
Funding Utopia, now there's a concept.
I live a decent life without a Car, Credit Card, Cell Phone, TV or bank account (I'm a member of a credit union)
I think I'm doing my part in starving the beast.
If you have any other ideas that can help with this, I'm all ears.
What's the Russian word for Utopia?
Vodka
Enough of this bullshit, cheating the tax man is a national sport there. Go back to work lazies...
Anyway if you were stupid enough to lend them money you deserve what happens.
Default already you lazy bitchez...
Cheating the tax man SHOULD be every nation's national sport, given that the tax man's only reason for existence is cheating everyone else.
Be nice if the playing field wasn't tilted!
Making congressmen enact tax loopholes is how American Exceptionalism began.
You do know that the lazy narrative is complete bullshit, right? Hell, the Greeks have longer work weeks and retire at a later age than even those efficient, hardworking Germans.
These false memes are how the Oligarchs keep the sheep barefoot and dumb. Unfortunately, it works every time.
Greece needs to become a province of ever-greater israel. Then watch the money pour in from the US, Germany et al.
The author of the following article is one of the few that correctly predicted* the collapse of the price of oil, and therefore, it may be worthwhile to consider his perspective upon the current Greek situation:
http://www.economic-undertow.com/2015/01/29/voting-with-empty-wallets/
Voting With Empty Wallets* http://www.doomsteaddiner.net/blog/2015/01/11/the-nobel-prize-in-economi...
First link is definitely worth the read.
Having done so, it's dinner time, so can't comment on the second, as I haven't read it yet.
RadMar, your first Link has much in common with a nightmare that stays with us when we wake up.
I suspect that Greece is simply one of the first countries to enter economic/societal Armageddon due to having fewer layers of fatty protection. Greeks will pay a high price to sort out their mess but civil unrest will get in the way and hinder progress.
fuck banks fuck politicians fuck all enemies of freedom and truth. smple as that . time for words and talking long gone hey. enuf fucking talk. evil is evil . u dont negotiate with it why ? because its fucking evil fuck evil
The people who made money from Madoff's Ponzi had to give it back.
Same goes for the crooked Western banks.
That's a very interesting analysis of the Greek situation. However it assumes that Tsipras actually wants to take on Wall Street, Western banking fraudster cartel and the IMF. I see little evidence of that.
So far he's made some noises about renegotiating Greek's debt servicing. Basically he wants to push the whole thing back to allow more .gov spending in the short term to alleviate painful austerity demanded by Mutti.
This sounds very macho of him but in fact is probably quite achievable once Mutti gets some new marching orders from her banksters. Western banksters will be aiming to avoid a Greek default because that will have unintended consequences and could be the trigger to bring the whole ponzi scheme down. That would affect their bonuses rather badly (!)
It's early days yet and the Greek drama continues ...
Upage a bit, 'RadicalMarijuana' gave a link that blew my mind;
http://www.economic-undertow.com/2015/01/29/voting-with-empty-wallets/ "Can Grexit be contained? Look at the EU trying to keep Greece in, that speaks for itself. The Greeks would have been gone a long time ago if their leaving was painless. Nobody would have bailed out the Greek banks unless the other European banks weren’t in the line of fire. It's hard to see past the lies, easier to see what system managers do. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11381071/Europes-creditors-... The Greeks have to be kept from successfully defaulting b/c all the other over-indebted EU states would default afterward. The Greeks have to be kept in otherwise the Continent’s liabilities would all flow toward Germany … the only EU state with any money. The Greeks have to be kept in or the entire euro-denominated edifice is revealed to be inept and untrustworthy. This last is fatal to ‘confidence’ and the endlessly rising stock market. for which all other things including the world itself … is sacrificed." quote from a reply by "Steve from Virginia"