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Something Has To Give
The Greek "conciliatory" tone that was the catalyst to send stocks soaring on Monday is long forgotten, and has been replaced by a Greece that is willing to say anything and everything either for soundbite purposes, for a market test, or just to gauge Europe's reaction. However, now that the adversaries are reverting back to their party lines, we finally have the most direct confrontation yet between the two camps.
First, from Bloomberg:
- GREEK GOVT WON'T ACCEPT TROIKA REMAINING IN COUNTRY: OFFICIAL
And from Reuters:
- EU'S SCHULZ SAYS GREEK GOV'T HAS NO CHOICE BUT TO KEEP ITS OBLIGATIONS TO EUROPEAN PARTNERS
Bloomberg also reports, citing a report of German govt document, saying PM Alexis Tsipras mustn’t roll back reforms shows Germany has started substantive negotiations, playing hardball, a Greek govt official says in e-mail today.
Document, reported by Reuters, essentially asks Greek govt to ditch commitment to roll back austerity, accept bailout agreement, agree on pension cuts, let Troika remain in country. The Greek response: these conditions can’t be accepted, are against mandate of Greek people, and a hurdle to Europe’s economic growth
What is clear is that someone will have to give. However, this development also assures that the Greek liquidity crisis in the coming weeks will almost surely get worse before the Greek government is either forced to admit defeat, tail between its legs and forced to explain to its voters why - at the end of the day - it is no different than its predecessor, or it will end up calling Europe's bluff and Europe will give in to Greek demands, which is highly unlikely as it means Italy, Spain and everyone else lines up to demand their "fair share" after Greece is done.
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Let them default then make it completely on their own. Boot them out of the EU - or allow them to voluntarily leave. No more loans. Greeks will learn how to be productive human beings or starve.
Then repeat with California...
These clowns seem to think that bilateral and international agreements are something you can just pull out of, because elections. They live in a fantasy universe.
Tsipras is simply just a big pussy. A couple days into his tenure and he's already worried about his re-election campaign? That's all it is. How about having some balls, telling everyone it's going to be tough, and accept his ouster if he fails?
Just a big pussy beholden to the banks, like every other elected leader in the western world.
Those ties are looking so bad....
They are all the same.
Now how many times has Greece defaulted over the last 500 years? Da Germans will learn the lessons, again. Nothing more to discuss here. Move along.
Look, this is all bullshit from BOTH sides trying to buy time to prepare for the inevitable Greek default.
That plus the politicos can say they went down fighting for their cause.
Greece is a City of London / Lazard sideshow.
It's not the issue.
Blame it on Greece.
Blame it on Russia.
The LBMA is blowing-up and London is thrashing around creating chaos where it can.
Right now all the big banks are busy putting Grama's retirement money into Greek Bonds and shifting their own money out. Poor Grama.
Well, somebody's got to protect the Clintons!
If a unemployed moron defaults on a greedy bankster, who is really at fault?
Both Greece and Cyprus were probably admitted as a counter to Turkey and Russia in the area...probably a big game of RISK.
We want our Monopoly money back. Plus interest. At 30%. Per day. We want your Gold. And your Islands. Isn't this a fun game?
They have to default intentionally in order to be ultimately assisted by those that oppose the institutions that will suffer the most from said default. It's all bullshit and stalling.
Kinda hard for me to pick a side on this. Socialism or Bansters.
Oh well, it should be a good show at least.
EU'S SCHULZ SAYS GREEK GOV'T HAS NO CHOICE BUT TO KEEP ITS OBLIGATIONS TO EUROPEAN PARTNERS
Not so quick. There are other and far better options than more of the recipe for guaranteed failure (audio interview):
What’s really going on in Greece - Steve Keen
Four minute video well worth watching. It paints the case for a serious change of policies very clearly:
Another economic crash is coming. How did this happen? – video
The Greek government has no option but to keep its pledges to the voters. Higher priority than any obligations to European Partners.
It's called democracy and it is coming to Europe for the first time in decades!
He changed his tune when he received a gift - a Paslode witha nice little ribbon on it.
You forgot the cockoo clock. Greeks love Kitsch.
/sarc
I admire the leadership qualities of Angela Merkel. She knows exactly what Germany and Europe need right now, has an actionable plan she is capable and willing to implement. Supported by a transatlantic advisory boys and girlie club and not impeded by any of the clueless blockheads of her thoroughly cleansed party she is in full control of the situation.
/sarc off
She is a transatlantic mole and won't politically survive 2015. This strage woman has no plan. One can almost smell her panicking in front of the dramatic events unfolding around her.
Actually, the fantasy world is someone who says "they have no other choice" when talking about a sovereign.
Say what you want, but Greece could pull out of the EU tomorrow and dissolve all "agreements" and tell everyone to suck an unripe olive.
Just wait for the USA to crawfish on their "agreements" with the population that it has fleeced for SS and Medicare for a century or so.
pods
Even after those agreements are broken, the US will do everything in its power to keep up the illusion that they are still being upheld.
^"stable prices=2%inflation"
Yep, wait till they tell us that 5% inflation is MOAR better.
pods
And when they tell us that, official inflation will be a slight miss at 4.8% (they must do MOAR to get that extra 0.2%!) and real inflation will be north of 15%.
The whole point is exactly that. They don't want to pull out. They want to stay there, they want to be funded by the EU/ECB/IMF and at the same time, implement none of the reforms that come with the agreement. They want it both ways. Leaving the EU and defaulting would be the honest way out, but no government would survive such a transition.
Well there certainly is enough blame to go around, and not just on the Greeks. The EU knew the books were cooked getting them into the EU. Then all these "loans" were made with full knowledge that they would never be paid back.
In fact, these debts are not meant to be paid off, as this would reduce the supply of Euros, and keep the banks' looking solvent.
Germany benefitted from this union as well. It got the benefit of trading partners using a common currency, as well as a lower Euro due to increased supply of Euros, which in part came about by Greece having to go into debt in Euros.
But every solution seeks to first and foremost benefit the very parties who benefitted most from this, mainly the banks.
Pisses me off when bankers speak about duty and other garbage when it comes to paying back loans conjured out of thin air.
pods
They are, of course, the first to default when its to their advantage.
Very true. Those loans were made for political reasons to suck in as many countries into the EU experiment as possible. Not doubt all involved were well aware these loans would never be paid back -- the Greeks saw a fantastic credit card spending spree and the EU/bankster criminals realized more power for themselves. GS and the Greeks cooked the books and the EU politicians, at some level, knew all about it.
pods,
If you believe that bankers benefit from making loans that they expect to default, explain why those people pushing their belongings in shopping carts are not using new SUVs.
Greece did cook the books to gain EU admittance. The aim was to join in the plunder of other EU taxpayers by getting the generous EU subsidies that were intended to run from north to south. Those subsidies, without loan and debt or interest rate considerations, have been about EUD 2 billion a year.
That was not enough for the Greeks to plunder. When the government was allowed to borrow seemingly unlimited amounts the pols doubled down of the generous benefits. A little compounding and benefit expansion and then REALITY. Socialist are not very good at facing and coping with REALITY. Their only recognized solution is to declare that someone knowingly and intentionally screwed them by funding their utopian dreams. The politics become directed toward identifying the evil intent of lenders so that Default on Debt will not be seen as a failure of Socialism.
Yes, and Germany can send tanks into Athens the next day.
Not very photogenic, but the US media has a way of turning Neo-Nazis into poor, bullied nationalists *cough* Kiev *cough cough*
When has any government not ultimately defaulted on 100% of the promises made to its citizenry? Go read a history book you statist jackass.
Does it always have to end in a war?
Certain debts are odius debts. Are Greek debts odius debts, I don't think so. The former government wasn't declared criminally neglible or whatever and nobody is swinging from lamp posts. Some Greeks are riding off into the sunset with a huge bag of loot. That's sad but it is not Germany's or the EU's place to prosecute or judge that.
Greece has assets but doesn't want to liquidate anything. Ever heard the expression "wanting their cake and eating it too?" That fits Greece.
Tschirpy and Vasouflakis could have started making some real decisions by now. Close the banks. Declare indefinite banking holidays so the looting stops. Go after former kleptocrats and oligarchs and put Greece pretty well under martial law. Softie socialists they are however, they can only beg for MOAR.
But at the end of the day, I agree the situation is FUBAR.
All this bullshit from the peanut gallery about Greece paying what it owes.....
The debt of the banks was absorbed by the government then put on the shoulders of a population in the middle of a worldwide slowdown.
Debt can not be repaid and struggling to pay the interest makes no sense at all.
Default & "Fuck The EU!"already
No government can be shackled by the decisions of a previous one. At least in a democratic state. And that's where the problem really lies.
So the ACA just expires when Obozo is replaced with another statist meatpuppet in 2 years?
How about all those old fuckers griping about the "promise" of Social Security they are owed?
Every government is shackled by the commitments of previous governments, both domestically and internationally.
The ACA can just be eliminated by Executive Order of Obammie's successor.
Just yesterday, someone said their agreements were with the country of Greece and not with the Greek government and so were sacrosanct.
... They live in a fantasy universe
In the real universe, what cannot be paid, won't ! And, one way or another (and regardless of any EU obfuscations) that's exactly what's going to happen.
Two words; Bretton-Woods.
If Nixon could repudiate the Gold Standard and bilateral and international agreements....
The whole thing is a fantasy universe.
Tsipras wll get a threatening call from TBTB telling him what to do. He'll do it.
EU membership is not a suicide pact...or is it?
A contract that is physically impossible to adhere to is null and void. You cannot bind a third party (future generations) without their permission.
The third party may continue as a function of self preservation but they can sure the fuck stop anytime they wish as long as they are willing to suffer the states cohersion but that fact alone tells you that it's not voluntary but under duress so again, null and void.
whoah hey this comment belonged on another thread that was weird
That's the problem, Cracker. It's not just LEAVING the Euro and taking your chances in a fresh, new world. I honestly believe the EU will play hardball to the point they send them out with sanctions on their back (or worse) until "the debt is repaid according to the Troika agreement". Sanctions the US will adhere to as well because Greece is talking to Russia.
Up till now the bankers have been playing nice (relatively speaking). But they can't have Greece setting off a cascade of default across the EU. They will do whatever it takes to prevent that from happening. And I think that includes such options as draconian sanctions, a government coup and even a UN "peace keeping" force occupying Greece to "maintain the security of the people as they transition out of the EU."
Did I just say that Europe would INVADE Greece, if necessary to enforce the Troika deal? Yes. Yes, I did. And I'm not kidding. This will be done at gunpoint, if necessary.
Good points. Yes, it could get very messy.
Ah, yes, instead of becoming productive human beings on their own they might simply become part of Russia and keep up the society crushing government spending.
Keep in mind that Gemany stills owes Greece WWII reparations. If they play hardball, Greece can simply pull that into the mix. Not saying they'd win that argument, but it does give them additional leverage. Sanctions would push Greece towards Russia and China. Not something that the US would support. IMHO
Germany owes Greece Trillions. Just offset 20% of those claims against Troika and tell the Brussels boys to collect in Berlin.
Greece makes a clean slate and can borrow from China and give a first mortgage.
Nato democratic airbomb. Yugoslavia 2
With an eye to the long game, since all roads (pipelines) now lead to Vlad's BFF in Istanbul- if the Europeans want to keep the lights on- hardball sanctions on Greece, should the Greeks actually have the balls to exit the EU plantation, would likely be short lived, unless the Bulgarians develop some skill at quickly building pipelines to suck Gazprom hose within the confines of existing EU legislation...
A bankruptcy, of course, does not imply that the creditors were completely wiped out. On the contrary, so far as external borroeing i concerned, all nations and subdivitions of governments are eager to make a composition, a bon marche, which will premit them to return to the money-market in as good standing as possible.
So that a default, or even repudiation, usually leads to a series of conferences, a volume of proposals and counter-proposals, threats, tears, new promises, and, in the case of defenseless or unwarlike states, perhaps an invasion of sovereignty by the creditor: such as the humiliating situation where taxes or customs are collected by a committee for the benefit of the mortgagee.
California would be a powerhouse without Fedgov and the anchor states dragging it down.
Could be said for any other State and yet, they still make it happen. California is a socialist utopia. The great weather helps mitigate that a bit and oh yeah, there's Stanford which is probably directly and indirectly responsible for 50% of CA wealth.
Didn't see the </s>
Have you seen their budget and deficit? That's from CA's social programs, not the Federal Gubs. Businesses are leaving CA, not flocking there.
I think the /s goes without saying there.
With the exception of a couple of die-hards around here, I read all posts in a sarcastic tone. Even if I'm wrong, it's still more pleasant than the alternative.
Let them default then make it completely on their own--- If it were that simple, then why don't they just do that? EU is *ucked either way unless Tsipras totally capitulates, then he'll be hung by his own people.
Rock... meet hard place.
In the end, it is that simple. It is the fear of the future that makes it look a lot more complex than it really is. No doubt there would be some very serious consequences for defaulting, but there will be serious consequences no matter what Greece does. Fear will often cause people to freeze when they need to pick the least worst of two outcomes.
The EU and Germans are pushing the "it's contained" meme if Greece defaults (which it's done plenty of times through history). Greece's new gov't is not accepting the Troika terms any longer. If everything is "contained", then why is the EU still talking about it?
Rhetorical Question...contagion is a bitch.
Translation from the Troika: They must stay in debt FOR...E...VER.
EU =/= Eurozone.
EU membership is not conditional on membership of the Eurozone.
Please try not to mix these terms up.
Every seen a mouse kill a cat? Me neither.
Cat can choke to death or if it is Housecat/EU it can only play with the mouse never doing it any real damage while the mouse can openly eat from the Cats food bowl.
One of my cats died from a rat bite (infection) but the rat died first. So its Greece first, Euro second by infection.
Dogs rule.
It takes an entire pack of dogs to even scare the bears in my neck of the woods. Without a high powered rifle, about all the dogs can actually do is push the bear up a tree until it doesn't have room to retreat. And if the bear is in a fighting mood... the dogs are either irrelevant or an appetizer before the .44 main course.
So a single cat would kill the bear then eat it?
<- EUR will hit parity with USD before June 2015?
<- EUR will hit parity with USD before Dec 2015?
Somehow they're going to smack Greece back in line. I don't know how. But as sure as I'm typing this, it will happen.
I think the "new" Greek govt. will be the same as the "old" Greek govt - steadily juicing the EU like Sunkist and growing their Swiss/Cayman bank accounts.
Probably right. Carrot and stick for the government officials currently in charge. Big freaking carrot, big freaking stick.
All the posturing is probably just for show.
Meanwhile, back at the country club...
"Meanwhile, back at the country club..."
Tsipris and Junker are in the hot tub and Junker is shaving Tsipris' back, while they both enjoy a cold shnappes and giggle like schoolgirls.
I wonder what would happen if Tsipras tweeted the address of the Troika delegations' living accommodations.
Just reschedule the high-level talks to next month. Buy some time. Then reschedule them again. Market loves that $hit.
Let them eat olives!
They should go back to the Drechma and giving money creating power to the government.
That would really stir shit up.
Schulz, fuck you. They have a choice. It's game over.
Schulz can only say and do what Klink thinks
Pimps vs Hoes, yall just better stay in your homes.
CIA backed coup in Greece in 3...2...1...
The only play in the USSA's playbook under "what to do about "socialist" countries with democratically elected governments." The only play the USA, Inc. has ever known.
Socialists are very bad for business. Fascists we love. They're very easy to work with.
Nonsense. Greece doesn't have vast reserves of oil and natural gas. They'd probably also play ball when it comes to pipelines.
Oh well, back to the olive press!
Tipras will get call and will have 2 choices. One is to live a long time with a golden retirement like Tony Blair or Two live a short life and beware of car travel, airlines, subways, and taxis and 50 storey buildings with roof gardens.
Loose lips sink ships. Greece at this rate will become the idiots at this rate. Hmmm...already came out and tossed the Russian offer...they really need to hold some thoughts to themselves..it is called a bluff. They will be easy for Merkel to handle.
dump euro.
bring back drachma, it will trade low against euro but eventually they will
become the mexico of europe and become a cheap tourist destination.
currency will stabalize problem solved mostly.
No kidding..just turn yourself into a tax dodging gambling mecca. Fuck the EU.
Nothing has to give.
since Varoufakis commented that GREECE `WILL NEVER SEEK FINANCIAL AID' FROM RUSSIA, not sure what his leverage is. I suppose Russia could 'offer' financial aid that they could accept it, unless this is his way of seeking their financial aid. Liars lying to liars as told to other liars.
This is an old issue. Didn't Tsipras have and exact game plan during the election OR is it like Mike Tyson said "Everyone has a plan until their punched in the face".
Maybe a decision has been made and all this is buying time for preparation.
Buying time is my perspective. And making sure that China and Russia played no role whatsoever in a GREXIT that would unleash a whole lotta hurt in the West.
If China and Russia are to ultimately play an important role in a "save" of Greece after a melt-down, it would be essential that they can't be pointed to as the guys who caused it.
I like your perspective.
People have become so cynical they find it hard - if not impossible - to believe that Tsipras & Co. are going to deliver. Its tough to blame them.
In my view, it just might be that Tsipras and Varoufakis might be more than Juncker, Draghi, Schaeuble and even GS can handle.
I just hope that the reports of Tsipras' new security detail are true, if even in part.
It is hard to not be cynical. Of course, there are different levels of cynicism.
One would be to assume that they were bought from the start. And it could be true.
Another is that they will soon be bought. Likewise easy to believe.
Then there's getting crushed by forces infinitely more powerful than them, regardless of intentions.
All reasonable guesses, imo.
But there also could be more. In this world, that is indeed simple hope.
Too bad Obola destroyed the use of that word. In America, anyway.
Doesn't change the possibilities, however. We'll see.
Security indeed.
HUZZAH! We've saved Greece- AGAIN!!
No, no, all this makes perfect sense. The guys in Greece open a long position, all in, right before Yanis oficially announces partial success, and BTFD. Then the guys turn the position, again all in, right before Yanis repudiates the claim, and STFATH. And that's how the funding comes in.
They're broke,the only way they can pay it back is with new loans.It's a ponzi,game over.
Banks are bleeding billions. Time is not on your side, Tschirpy and Vasouflakis.
Tick tock, tick tock...
Will they close the banks or wait until every last Euro has been taken out.
Maybe Tschirpy and Vasouflakis are on the take and looting as well.
When the Euros are all gone, and ECB refuses to send more.. the real shitshow begins for the Greeks.
Something has to give, and it will probably be my interest in this soap opera.
in the end greece will prove once again that elections don't matter
The Grexit "option" is far less appealing to Greece if you talk tough but are instructed that use of the (for now preferred €uro) is not an option but predicated upon previous agreement, and that Grexit doesn't involve Gr€xit so much but actually means GrEUxit AND Gr€xit, and "give our best" to that bulwark of democracy - Russia - have fun with your new "bankerz".
I feel sorry for the Greeks. Sold out by previous corrupt govs, dropped in incipient shite by the current lot, and villified by the bloodsuckerz in Brussel who accept the Banksters shilling.
Just default and bring it to a head already ffs.
Can't BofA send down some bankers to start chopping up people and stuffing them into suitcases ... until the economy starts to grow?
Something did give... The first thing to go in war, the truth.
Just like Ireland was supposed to follow Icelands lead but didn't, so the 'contagion' was contained, ...so too will Greece be contained. As mentioned, at gunpoint if necessary. Though it would be nice if Greece defaults. Fuck Merkel and the EU globalists. Fuck 'em right in the pussy.
Exactly. Exactly. That's just what I'd do- Fuck 'em. Fuck 'em right in the pussy.
The average Hans and Helga in Germany is pissed off at the Greeks because the German people have to pay to save the German banks from the losses the banks have created by making leveraged fraudulent loans to the Greek govt.
And it's true that the Greeks don't like to pay taxes to a corrupt government, and might enjoy bogus public pension programs, but the German people should be pissed at their banks and their politicians for messing up their retirement plans.
Make the banks suffer the consequences of their bad loans. If they lost their captal the corporation is dead. No artificial life support for dead banks!
Germany is not negotiating. What appears to be a hardball initial negotiating stance will eventually be seen as complete intransigence intended to furnish the excuse Germany needs to leave the Euro and return to the Deutschmark. The real cause of this intransigence is the ECB plan for European QE. But Greece will become the convienient excuse.
Wanna fucking bet? This could get medieval fucking nasty.
Each brings their teams.
Greece 300 = (299 + 1 Dr. V.)
vs.
Troika 3
High noon smackdowns at Thermopylae.
Bring in TV and Cable pay per view.
GO GREECE GO!!!!! SCREW THE FUCKING BANKSTER MOTHERFUCKERS!! At this point Greece has NOTHING to lose and the EU has EVERYTHING to lose. Take down the EU Greece!!! Throw the banksters in jail and hang them. The people around the world are with you!!!
They said no to the loans, then the bankers gave them until the 28th to get their minds right.
Always with the delays. Nothing is ever resolved, just pushed away. I remember stories about 'position limits' to be imposed on certain commodity futures, it was off a few months in the future, then it never got here.
Now that's off the radar. Did they limit anything? By the 28th there will be a new deal in the works, they will need a little extra time.
Delay-delay-obfuscate-foot drag. C'mon Dimitri, stick em in the guts with that trident thang. I know you can do it.
put this into the context. today V got draghi the guardian, and it seems it went well, meaning cable not unplugged yet (2 more weeks we've heard). but tomorrow we have V and schauble, and that's archetypical, that's greece vs germany face to face, main character vs impact character in their first battle of this cosmic war. drama in the finest european tradition. sparks in media today? sure, it's a prelude, a passionate foreplay. enjoy it.
The EU will back down because they have no choice. they will also most likely renegotiate with all the other debtor nations at the same time (they are most likely trying to figure out how to proceed with this right now) so that they can contain this. The EU has no mechanism for a member to leave.
The EU's first and foremost mission is to keep the EU intact. they can see the headwinds and know they must adjust.
All the posturing going on now is just that. It may take some time to figure out how to convince the creditor nations that it's in their best interest (which won't be easy, especially the Germans.) And when you see the headlines of a "new deal".........BTMFATH!
The right thing to do is default, but when was the last time anyone has done the right thing.
If they want to keep the EU intact, they have no option other than full fiscal union - regardless of whether Greece is ejected or not. Any other deal is just a can-kicking measure.
Agreed. I still think they will just kick the can.
I would prefer the whole thing implode.
FUCK THE BANKSTERS!! THEY'RE THE ONES WITH SOMETHING TO LOSE. They've impoverished everyone else. Hey you bankster fuckers, WELCOME TO THE FUCKING PARTY MOTHERFUCKERS. OH, is that your yacht? Oh shit, it's on fire. So sorry.
"Something Has To Give"
The Swiss broke their peg to the Euro. Eventually, all pegs are broken. The Greek debt obligation is equivalent to a peg the bankers demand stay in place. It is under stress and will break.
Throw those interloping troika lying motherfuckers in jail. Then try them and hang them. Fuck throwing them out, hang them, they looted your country and impoverished and murdered your citizens. HANG THEM.
Why are the coutries getting involved with each other? Why don't they all get together and agree to kill all the banksters and print their own fiat backed by whatever? WHEN are the people going to come to the realization that it's the fucking banksters causing all the shit, wars, poverty, sickness, misery, etc. KILL ALL THE BANKSTERS. Oh wait, they've taken over the governments. Oh yeah. So what, any politician coming from a bank gets hanged too. PURGE THE WORLD OF BANKSTERS. We don't need banks.
How does the Troika plan to respond to a big fat razzberry? What do you say to "neener, neener"?
There is a possibility that if Tsypras is forced to default ..... he could be killed by the CIA . We have seen what happened in Poland a few years back , in Venezuela and in other countries . The EU needs Greece as a nation of slaves to pay a debt that is impossibile to payback . The default would be devastating for the EU zombie banks and it would establish a precedent that could be followed by Spain , Italy , Ireland and others .
Forcing a nation to pay an impossible debt is a return to slavery like in medieval times . Companies can ask for protection from bankruptcy . but government not ? Another demonstration that the EU cannot handle this situation. They seem brainwashed by banksters !
EU/Euro godfather Guliano Amato, 'Medieval TImes were nice'
He already said that a return back into the medieval situation pre Hobbes would be a good thing.
Who in the hell would hire Sgt. Shultz to be their negotiator? No wonder this is getting messed up.
When Major Hockstadtler takes over, then we'll get some action.
Bullish for eurobonds.
All Alexis has to do is cut the euphemisms and finalize his 40 caliber platform.
Neither thing is going to happen. Either Greece is ejected from the EuroZone, and/or the EU goes to full fiscal union. There are no other options now.
Ed SCHULZ?
What the heck can he add to the confusion?
http://wegoted.com/
I'm going to read the article now.
Oh Eu Schulz. My Bad.
Greeks should go old school and respond to demands by sending the Troika representatives back home... one piece at a time.
Unfortunately, Greece has only two options at the present moment.
It either puts up and shuts up or else it storms out of the Euro and defaults in the hope that Europe folds along with Greece or that Europe will relent and give in to some of the Greek demands.
The ongoing problem is that Greece is still not self sustaining in terms of income and expenses so back to square one.
Modern day Greece after WWII has had a number of lottery tickets.
1. Tourism although it did damage it to an extent by high priced arrogance for quite a while to the benefit of Turkey.
2. Wages of its seamen being remitted home. This too is nowhere near what it used to be.
3. Savings of immigrants being sent back home. Assisted only in the cash flow of families.
4. Capital of returned immigrants. Mostly used to buy and build real estate.
5. EU handouts. Badly spent or went missing. Little to show for many years.
These sources sustained Greece for quite a few decades and allowed Greeks to live beyond their own internal productive means (with the exception of tourism) but it now has to look for another source and the only source is for Greeks to become efficient, productive and law abiding and for Europe to allow it to reap the benefits of any oil in the Aegean without having to put up with the constant dirty games of the Turkish government.
The EU will try what it always tries, "extend and pretend". This imples some type of temporary intermediate solution, something that decides nothing, fixes nothing, but allows the UE to continue their rule. So, this will not come to a head, it will come to "non-solution" "solution" that extends the Greek debt failure point as far into the future as possible. So that the EU Parliament can keep meeting, keeping passing laws and issuing edicts. The Parliamnet Members and their huge staffs and hangers on will continue to be paid, and continue to accept bribes, fixing a wonderful life for themselves and all extended family. EU corporations will find jobs for all the members kids and grand kids. Graft will flow on.
When confronted with a death level event, the EU will do all it can to extend and pretend. It has worked for banks, now it will work for the EU.
Greece can't pay, so they will pretend Greece will pay in some vague future date. They can not be shown to be weak, or the 1 trillion Euro debt of Spain will be put on the table for negotiation by a collapsing Spain.
I'd believe what is being said...interesting times. Warning signs. Hope the Greeks keep safe going forward.
"It is clear that the stand-off between Greece and the eurozone is the greatest risk to the global economy," warns UK Chancellor George Osborne adding that he hopes Greece's new finance minister "acts responsibly," as Varoufakis toured Europe to discuss Greece's 'demands'.
Currency war.
Debt war.
... high noon...or is it close to Midnight ?
Paul Craig Roberts "
The New Greek Government May Be Assassinatedhttp://kingworldnews.com/paul-craig-roberts-new-greek-government-may-ass...
If the new government doesn't have fangs and claws, it's doomed.
He must be a regular at this site.
Time allows the wolves to circle the new government.
Watch your back.
SPAIN SPAIN SPAIN SPAIN SPAIN SPAIN SPAIN SPAIN SPAIN SPAIN SPAIN
THE PAIN IN SPAIN IS NOT CONTAINED.
If they give loan "Mods" to one country,they gotta do them all.
Kicking the can down the road does not work forever....
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In a few days we shall see what Greece is made of. They know for a fact that they are headed over the cliff if they accept the 'extend and pretend' ploy of the central banks. If the Greeks go for more lending and bailouts with pension cuts and more austerity, they may revolt.
Of course, I think if Greece does kick out the Troika, then the result will likely be the banks trying to hurt the Greeks as much as possible as a lesson to all the rest that are lined up to protest their loan situation. Don't forget though, that Putin is routing the natural gas pipelines through Turkey to the border of Greece, and if the EU wants their gas they will have to negotiate. Greece isn't as helpless or lazy as everyone makes them out to be. They may be even harder working than European bankers.
The boot kicking Greece may instead land on Ukraine (cause and effect).
The forces that were working in Greece's favor for the first bail out are now working against it. The first bail out was done to prevent 'contagion' meaning a run on the bonds of Portugal, Spain, Italy, etc.
But now the 'contagion' that is feared is an escalation of 'me too' demands from Portugal, Spain, Italy, etc. if Greece is given another write off.
From the EU point of view, Greece is just a money pit. An expensive white elephant. And Greece now has a primary surplus, So Greece could default. It would be messy and lots of Greeks would lose most of their pensions, but it would also help the economy in the long run to get out from under all that debt. Plus, communists are in control so who knows what could happen.
The one thing that seems unlikely is another Greek bailout. Unless it is a really tiny one to enable the Greek government to save face.
Something tells me both parties won't do more than absolutely necessary to keep the actual status alive until 28th of February, ECB/EU will give some, shout about fair-play and such and Greece will be blamed on everything that happens within this time.
Hardball from financial fascists of the Eurozone. Someone remember Robert Cooper?
Tyler, your options seem a bit limited. What about a complete default? A country can't be forced to liquidate, like a company, to its creditors.
Which, btw, would make everybody 'happy': everyone gets to stick to their guns, the Greek get to say 'well we offered a haircut, not you get nothing'. Or you have an assumption there that Europe would never let that happen? Then it can be blackmailed by anyone.
Finally, I really don't see how nobody can point to the fact that if Greece defaults, it gains 320 billion euros, which is a multiple of it's tiny GDP. The biggest heist in history I would call it.
Greece IOU is - for the biggest part -in fact the debt of some banks.
More exciting is now behaviour of ESFS/ESM which could lead to a $500b-burden on Germany alone, plus some extra house-of-cards reaction within the Euro-zone.
Czar,
Based on Fed tax load vs Fed spending in the state (i.e., California supports the rest of the country), it's hard for me to understand the downvotes you got. Silicon Valley and the giant food-growing regions are a bad thing? Oh, and a note to said junkers: If the social programs are so terrible, please stop busing your mental cases here. Thank you.
@ admit defeat, tail between its legs and forced to explain to its voters why - at the end of the day - it is no different than its predecessor ...
Always, this is the voice of tyrants: We know what’s best for you, just because you’re trying to save yourselves it doesn’t mean that you are not stupid; Greek people, you don’t know what you want, but we know what’s best for you.
Et tu, Zero Hedge?
What I don't understand is there is a bond crisis, it's all coming down, maybe Japan first but this year anyway for most everybody, so the Euro is done one way or another.
Are we just waiting for a GERMexit?
Sorry, 'Germouty'.
Maybe 3 11, 5 11 have some significance here.
If the Greek are smart, which I think they are, they leave the European monetary union but like Denmark keep the infrastructure so that tourists can keep paying in Euro's and like in Denmark give funny 'tourist' money in return.