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"Elections Change Nothing" Germany Admits Distrust Of The Masses Is The EU Way
Excerpted from Daniel Hannan's "Democracy could have saved Europe from the single currency" Op-Ed at CapX.com,
“Elections change nothing,” said Wolfgang Schäuble, Germany’s tough-minded finance minister. He was talking about Greece, but he could have been talking about the entire EU racket. The Europhile elites have a guarded and contingent attitude towards democracy. It has its place, to be sure, but it must never be allowed to slow the process of political integration. As the President of the European Commission, Jean-Claude Juncker, put it in response to Syriza’s election victory, “There can be no democratic choice against the European treaties”.
He means it.
...
Distrust of the masses is in the EU’s genome. Its founders had lived through the horrors of the Second World War, and associated democracy – especially in its plebiscitary form – with the demagoguery and fascism of the 1930s. They made no bones about vesting supreme power with a group of Commissioners who were immune to public opinion. Sure enough, those Commissioners and their successors saw it as their role to step in when the voters got it wrong – as when, for example, they voted against closer integration in referendums.
...
What else do the people absurdly known as “experts” have to do to convince us that they don’t have all the answers? The euro was their great endeavour, for Heaven’s sake. Yet, even now, they won’t admit that it was a mistake.
Voters won’t always get things right: the world is imperfect, gross, sublunary. But, as a general rule, the more responsibility you give them, the more responsibly they behave. As the Nobel-prize-winning economist Amartya Sen puts it, “Don’t ask whether a nation is fit for democracy. It becomes fit through democracy”.
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Democracy is fundamentally incompatible with Central Banker-ism
This is precisely why it will fail: it's pathological and inhuman, run by control freaks. Attempting to remake the world in their own broken image, all they do is destroy.
“Elections change nothing,”
Red team, blue team. Now that's change imbeciles can believe in.
Elections change nothing
Freudian slip of the century. I only wish George Carlin (Pesci bless his soul) was still with us to hear that little gem.The Euro was just about being consitent in matters of plundering European populations.
oh, a genius...
Slightly off topic:
well, perhaps there is something that can be done, this is crazy news that has been blocked from publication by the Can.gov:
Bank Of Canada - Loses Court case on dereliction of duty !
The Bank Of Canada has a charter to issue debt-free money to the govt. but for many years the Govt. has just fallen in line with US practice of issuing bonds (which cost interest)
If the Bank stuck to its charter, and the Govt. acted similarly, this would save BILLIONS of $$$$ per year on interest paid to private banksters !!
...
PLEASE SPREAD THIS LINK - It looks like the govt has tried to suppress reporting of this case
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40Jz0LPQAQY
http://www.comer.org/
Here is a link to the actual court docs:
http://decisions.fct-cf.gc.ca/fca-caf/en/d/s/index.do?cont=comer&ref=&d1=&d2=&p=comer
Here's a quick interesting highlight from the court docs:
[5] The core elements of COMER’s Claim can be reduced to three parts:
1. The Bank of Canada (Bank) and Crown refuse to provide interest-free loans for capital expenditures.
2. The Crown uses flawed accounting methods in describing public finances, which provides the rationale for refusing to grant such loans.
3. These and other harms are caused by the Bank being controlled by private foreign interests.
Fascinating. Thanks for bringing this forward. Will be very interested to see how this unfolds. The current political leader, Prime Minister Harper, seems very much a puppet, with nothing in the way of competition among so-called opposition parties.
I know, i think this decision deserves some attention. The government has appealed twice and have lost again, I think the next step is the supreme court; it has ramifications for all the CBs. Harper is a puppet and the opposition are indeed worse
Democracy and Bankerism work together quite well actually. In a Democracy people always vote for more gov. and free shit which the politicians are happy to offer, and the central bankers are happy to finance.
.
It's time to define "Eurocrat"
It's one who resembles a rat
Conceited and crass
With face like an ass
So words are not spoken - they're shat
The Limerick King
Democracy is only compatible with the lowest common denominator.
Elections Change Nothing -- certainly true in the US as well.
Vote with pitchforks changes everything. when the pain wakes the masses from the circus they will realize they have nothing to loose and pickup the pitchforks.
US elections don't change anything because, sadly, there is not a dime's wiorth of difference between the elites of either party. And the elites hold the power determining who gets the campaign money and support at re-election time.
Emma Goldman
He is right in one respect. Elections can't change reality. If you have borrowed too much to ever pay back and need a continuous stream of creditors to keep lending you money to maintain the status quo, then you can't just elect someone new and have them change that.
If my household is $100,000 in debt and I only make $70,000 a year then auterity is not something I can choose or not choose. At some point reality will choose for me.
Of if you've never elected shadow governments who build systems atop odious debt for the express purpose of sponging the masses livelihood. Well you can't solve that with an election either.
I don't disagree, but people need to realize you can't solve a problem of too much power over you by electing someone to exert more power over you.
athens ,syntagma square live now. http://www.zougla.gr/live
My, aren't we full of ourselves?... I can recalll from history someone saying, "Let them eat cake"; as it turns out, she had a rather very bad-hair day...
I have persistent doubts about that sort of claim, based on observation. I don't think there is a better way if you are all on board for Govt, but I seriously doubt most of these sorts of claims. Don't need to look too far to see it often isn't true.
There is some support for the idea in the capx.com article, namely the part where he compares Greece to Switzerland.
That example supports the idea that when people are not insulated (even if only temporarily) from the consequencees of their choices, they'll tend to make better choices. Of course that only works to a degree at the level of whole countries, and C&C (choices and consequences) often needs to be pushed down to local and even individual levels, otherwise game theory kicks in and the whole thing goes to shit.
To see it as being support for Greece being ruled by democracy rather than EU technocrats, all one needs to think about is who is better insulated from the bad choices of the EU technocrats, the Greek people or the EU technocrats themselves? (Keeping in mind that the "better insulated" is likely going to result in "worse" choices - at least for the "good of the people" definition of "worse", perhaps not so much in the technocrats' definition of the word.)
Of course, there are other issues at play, such as how central banks insulate the current generation from their choices by saddling future generations with the consequences. And there one seems to exceed the capabilities of "unlimited" (everyone gets a vote) democracy, because far too many of those "everyone"s can't put 2+2 together and come up with "End the Fed".
The new Greek government has one chance and one chance only.
File a suit at the courts in Le Hague and expose the conspiracy and fraud that has been committed on the backs of the Greek people.
It's time to name names, prosecute organisations and even foreign governments that have been complicit in the theft and looting.
At the end of the day, it will be German and other taxpayers holding the bag for the crimes of banksters and political whores in London, Paris and Berlin.
Might as well go all the way now. That a crime has been committed and that we are living in a vast conspiracy is pretty obvious now.
Tsirpas and Varoufakis would earn the respect of many ordinary people, maybe they would earn the support of the 99%.
They do have one chance only - and going to the Hague is not it. What good would a 5 year court case do? They don't have 5 years. The only chance they have to change the course for Greece is to unilaterally declare all sovereign debt previously payable in Euros to now be payable in new drachma; change the denomination of all bank deposits to new drachma, and use the debt relief that will come from a 90% devaluation of the new drachma relative to the Euro to give them a runway for change.
The new Greek government only needs to stop paying their impossible debt, and watch the banks blow sky high. No need to waste their little money on courts, especially since said courts are controlled by the same people which control their debt...
"File a suit at The Hague...." FFS - really? Lawyers are the answer?
God I need another drink
P.S. Gen Patton called it - the Hun is always at your throat or at your feet. They only recognize the authority of force
In a strange way, this is a very good suggestion.
Most ZHers agree there was a massive "control fraud" in Greece wherein the oligarchy and the banks privatized the assets at low prices, indebted the country, looted the proceeds and took off to London, Monaco etc.
Why not file a suit? Use the EU/ICJ infrastructure to shed light on what really happened. It's the only chance to educate the European public on what really happened.
Sure it will take time. But it cannot hurt and might help.
File a suit at the courts in Le Hague
What is "Le Hague" ?
we are seeing the belly of the beast.
not much happening in democratic europe.
it's all downhill from here for the EU
great experiment
poor experimenters.
Great experiment. Rich experimenters.
The last part caused the problem.
The poor shall inherit the Earth, but what good is a used-up world and how could it be worth having?
Our troll PARTNERS ( i love the sardonic reference to partners of late ) on Z/H are fighting for their very existence and Against The Odds.
When Barry and Nuland's Asses blow what happens to all them spooks and programmer rent boys on the payroll?
With the severe austerity imposed on their ' spooks are us ' budgets i see the cream of ussa ( borrowed after the war german ) scientists defecting in large numbers. FUNNY how these things come Full Circle.
FleaDumb123 should read the small print in his Pension Plan.
Elections change nothing? Well, Mr. Schauble, you're in for an unpleasant surprise.
Not only do they change things, but they often change things rather significantly...perhaps Mr. Schauble cut too many history classes during his school years...especially his own German history.
Yes Mr. Schauble...your own country held elections many, many years ago, and woke up the next day in Nazi Germany...I'll bet those Germans would disagree with you about how THAT election changed nothing...asshole!
Yeah, elections sure as hell can change things...and don't forget it!
" There can be no democratic choice against the European treaties”
These sentiments are the exact same ones as the world's premier dictator and enemy of democracy and free enterprise. Joseph Vissarionovich Djugashvili (Stalin)
Stalin made clear that communism was not negotiable at the ballot box. This communist government would never accept elections or any democratic vote of people as in anyway being a governing force on the New World Order of Soviet Communsim. Simply put, like the EU, Soviets did nto recognize any right of the people to vote any changes to the New World Order.
The EU has set itself up as the STALIN dictator of Euorpe, and never again in the course of European history will the ballot box be allowed to question EU power and Brussels Dictatorship.
The new evil sees itself as above deomocracy, above the people. The EU is a Banker Entity, it is a Dictatorship of the Bankers. Every bit as evil as Soviet Communism.
I know it's slightly off-topic but it fits well nevertheless.
As a Swiss this reminds me a lot of the EU's reaction to limit the free movement agreement with the EU. “There can be no democratic choice against the European treaties”.
Exactly, the Swiss voted in a very democratic referndum, something the EU bureaucrats loath and it decided against unlimited labour movement and the EU response is rejection and unwillingness to even negotiate. I was personally against restricting the movement seeing that it economically benefited Switzerland but the EU's attitude towards any sovreign Nation, which is not even a member of the club is swaying my opinion!
Glad to hear it!! Would have brought a tear to Adolf Hitler's good eye . all of this EU Centralised Power Trip.
Your first part of your post was pretty smart, so it´s hard to believe you draw such a stupid conclusion in the second.
Decisions in a democracy are one thing, sticking to treaties is another. Since Swiss and Germans are from the same cultural background i think we value both things very high. If you have a treaty it´s not enough if one side just says "oh, i don´t want that anymore", no matter if this is a democratic decision or not. Life as we know it would be pretty miserable in central Europe if we couldn´t relay on treaties we have signed. Just like in Greece, for example.
Oh a German feeling a bit put off by a direct democratic decision, I'd almost say i can see envy? Look, if you are already making full-mouthed statements like saying "Swiss not valuing treaties" then please proof it with something. So far the Swiss are holding up the treaties with the EU. Renegotiating a treaty is another thing to which any member of a treaty should have the right to and which is a clause in the bilateral agreements. If the EU does not want to negotiate that's another thing. But please don't talk about breaking treaties when your government is the one which is allowing the ECB to break its agreements almost daily and not saying a thing, so maybe that should be the focal point of your worries as a German.
The problem with the ECB, they are independent. It´s not up to the German government to tell them how they do their job, even if they do not like what they are doing. And guess what, that is written in a TREATY.
Of course every side has the right to try to renegotiate a treaty. And every side has has the right to not renegotiate it. If you want to change a treaty you simply have to offer a compensation. It´s as simple as that.
But hey, what you say sounds so welsch, you are not a real Swiss anyway, so you probably don´t understand this.
Haha, I guess some people on this website would disagree when you say the ECB is independent. :D
Ok, so at least we agree now on the treaty negotiation part.
Und jo, i bin Schwizer, born and bread but I don't live there right now.
Treaties can be broken and abandoned by one of the treaty partners. The only remedy for the party wanting to bind the other party to the treaty is war.
To say that there is no possibility of Grexit (a breach of its treaty obligations) is to suggest that Grexit is a cassus belli.
Going to war to keep a bunch of hopeless debtors who will never pay their bills in a political union makes no sense. Going to war - conquering them and taking over their governments - in order to keep paying their unpayable bills is absolutely bizarre.
This whole EU project is looking like the mad hatters tea party. Perhaps it is created to prevent wars between European nations but it appears to be driving the very anger and nationalist sentiments that lead to war.
Why do people insist demacracy is good. It substitutes the power of the elite to control the lives of the masses with the power of the majority to elect eites to control the lives of the masses.
And they're goddamn right! Have you seen who the average Joe (or Franz or Mario or Jacque or José etc...) the plumber is in Europe? He's a half-retarded guy who thinks you can print your problems away and gets excited by neo-keyneasian populist leaders, even if he doesn't get what they're blabbering about.
I live in the periphery and I'm actually re-assured there's someone not-insane in power, someone who pushes for reforms to make the whole continent competitive instead of transforming it into a 3-millennia-old banana republic. Gotta love the eurocrats, no joke, they're the only hope for fiscally sound national budget!
Fuck You Wolfgang Schäuble. You Rothschild Butt-Boy!
Also, you're right; elections change nothing. But a Revolution Will. Get it?
I have no trust in the avg voters though because when it comes down to final decision time, most people are choosing the guy who promises them the most free shit.
fuck you Schauble.
The EU fantasy land is beginning to fray. This is just the first of many financial crises to hit.
Battle lines are being drawn.
NOTE TO SELF APPOINTED EUROPEAN APARATCHICS:
So you don't trust me yet still expect me to pay towards your grossly overinflated wages, perks and pensions.
Fucking dictators.
FUCK OFF.
The arrogance of that statement. Lord help me I want to punch people like that in the nose. Repeatedly.
Go long my friends. Go long in Brass, Beans and Water Purification.
“Elections change nothing,” said Wolfgang Schäuble, Germany’s tough-minded finance minister. He was talking about Greece, but he could have been talking about the entire EU racket. The Europhile elites have a guarded and contingent attitude towards democracy. It has its place, to be sure, but it must never be allowed to slow the process of political integration. As the President of the European Commission, Jean-Claude Juncker, put it in response to Syriza’s election victory, “There can be no democratic choice against the European treaties”.
In fact... We're so good at what we do, we don't even need no stinken "9/11" to involve you in the last war you may ever fight!... Might as well have said it.
Sure hope the people of Western Europe take umbrage to that statement and never let it out of their minds!
On too many levels to count this statement is remarkable.
“There can be no democratic choice against the European treaties”
Now that IS funny.
These asshats really believe their “Just Us” treaties and currencies are going to survive. ROFL.
Virtually every socialist government in history has emerged from a distrust of the people and a hatred of what it sees as disorderly free markets and wasteful competition. That competition drives up quality and drives down prices (bar cartels) is lost on these people because they simply do not understand free market capitalism.
"They" always believe that "they" know best and "we" must be marshalled, corralled and nannied whilst "they" run the affairs of the nation on our behalf. Utopia is not far away. ho-ho.
When "their" policies fail, as they always do without exception, "they" demand even more socialism. Jackboot enforcement of "their" failed policies soon follows and the face of fascism soon appears. The country implodes into bankruptcy, progressive impoverishment, wealth destruction and eventually, social disorder. The State fights back with ever more oppression, fearing that it might otherwise be overthrown and those responsible held to account. It goes on.
The above is what I see happening in the United States, Britain and across Europe, jackboot-by-jackboot.
"Voters won’t always get things right: the world is imperfect, gross, sublunary. But, as a general rule, the more responsibility you give them, the more responsibly they behave."
One of the most obviously WRONG idiotic statements ever written - ALL the "democracies" are controlled by the proletariat, and they ALL have proven that they SUCK at making wise decisions - they always vote for MORE freebies and LESS personal responsibility and accounability.
This guy has less intelligence than a fart.
I choked from laughter !
Its founders had lived through the horrors of the Second World War,
Arthur Salter and Jean Monnet designed the EU BEFORE the Second War "
In 1917/18 he was a colleague of Jean Monnet in the Chartering Committee of the Allied Maritime Transport Council, and in 1919 appointed secretary of the Supreme Economic Council in Paris. Salter then worked as head of the economic and financial section of the League of Nations secretariat, and in the League secretariat at Geneva
I'm guessing Wolfgang doesn't vacation in Greece.
Jackboot Nazis march once more. Gas up those chambers Merkel.