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Schauble And Varoufakis Meeting Ends: "We Didn't Even Agreed To Disagree"
Less than 24 hours after the ECB showed it would only play hardball from now on, there were some hopes that either the Greek position would soften or that Germany would indicate it may agree to at least a modest compromise to avoid the worst possible outcome.
Alas, as the following photo from the ongoing press conference between the finance ministers of Greece and Germany shows...
... it was not meant to be.
- SCHAEUBLE SAYS HAD INTENSIVE TALKS WITH VAROUFAKIS
- SCHAEUBLE SAYS NO AGREEMENT YET WITH VAROUFAKIS ON WAY AHEAD
- SCHAEUBLE: GERMANY MUST HAVE UNDERSTANDING FOR GREEK WOES
- SCHAEUBLE: GREECE MUST WORK WITH TROIKA AS PER PRIOR AGREEMENTS
- SCHAEUBLE: SAYS SOME GREEK POLICY MEASURES GO IN WRONG DIRECTION
- SCHAEUBLE: DEBT CUT FOR GREECE IS NOT ON THE TABLE
- SCHAEUBLE: HAVE GONE TO THE LEGAL LIMITS IN PROVIDING AID
The punchline:
- SCHAEUBLE: MY PRESS SPOKESMAN ADVISED ME TO SAY "WE AGREED TO DISAGREE"
And the other side:
- VAROUFAKIS SAYS HAS NOT REACHED AGREEMENT WITH SCHAEUBLE
- VAROUFAKIS SAYS OUTLINED GREEK GOVT PRIORITIES TO SCHAEUBLE
- VAROUFAKIS SAYS AGREED WITH SCHAEUBLE TO ENTER A CONSULTATION
- VAROUFAKIS SAYS IT IS TIME TO PUT AN END TO GREECE'S ECONOMIC WOES, SURE PEOPLE OF GERMANY WANT TO GET OVER GREEK SAGA
- VAROUFAKIS SAYS WE DIDN'T DISCUSS GREECE'S DEBT REPAYMENT SCHEDULE OR DEBT HAIRCUT
Yanis' punchline:
- VAROUFAKIS SAYS "WE DIDN'T EVEN AGREE TO DISAGREE"
Said otherwise, if the ECB had hoped that by escalating the political fight by yanking the proverbial financial rug from under Greece it would lead to a quick submission of Greece, it has so far failed.
All of this happens after ECB member Peter Praet had some choice comments of his own as well:
- PRAET SAYS DECISION ON GREEK WAIVER WAS 'NOT AN EASY DECISION'
- PRAET SAYS DECISION ON GREEK WAIVER 'SHOULDN'T BE A SURPRISE'
It wasn't a surprise: as we noted on January 31, Vitor Constancio was kind enough to warn Greece this was coming several days ago. But the bigger question is why wasn't this an "easy decision" - after all isn't the ECB just following its rules? Because if it wasn't "easy" it implies there was much discretion in the choice, discretion which makes it very clear this latest escalation is nothing but a move by a central bank which is anything but, and is now clearly a political power broker to an increasingly troubled continent, which as some are starting to whisper, is starting to lose control.
Watch the press conference here:
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This is gonna be fun...in a macabre sort of way.
Something needs to be the trigger to begin the process of wringing out the insanity in the socioeconomic system. It might as well be this.
Screw you guys.....so can we have the money?
The problem here is that Greece wants to default and if Greece defaults then Portugal, Spain and Italy may want relief on their debts too.
Also Syriza are NOT part of the political establishment, they don't give a shit about institutions or lobbyists.
We settled WW1 the same way, with a hundred year timer, now times up and it's game on.
This Yanis guy is really a rock star. The 1st politician I see in my life who actually talks sense.
I have an old Milli Vanilli tape that my girlfried left in my bedroom back in Jr. High that may be of interest to you.
Screw Milli Vanilli, now about that girl friends bedroom...
This is all Kabuki Theater, for domestic political consumption (for respective nations' citizens, whether Germans or Greeks).
Greece will be bailed out, as will Spain, Italy, France, Portugal, etc.
The costs to the net-balance positive EU nations (the few that exist) will be MASSIVE; so much so that it WILL ultimately & inevitably & necessarily break the core, as a simple matter of basic math & necessary horrid monetary policy...
...but not before they extend the illusion & pretend that this is fixable for as long as possible.
Greece is bancrupt because it spend like a drunken sailor and just voted another round of communists into power.
How would anyone be tempted to give them more money?
It looka like Schwaube puts a lot of weight on his advisor ... who is that guy btw?
or even better WHO ARE THOSE GUYS beyond the curtain?
man, ole swabbeled makes dick chenney look like a sweetheart.....
Soooo?... What Were The Parting Words???
""Fuck You... /// Yes, Fuck You Too..."" ?
IronLead,
Quite, and why the ECB is as much at fault as Greece.
Would YOU lend to a drunken spendthrift sailor in the first place? I wouldn't.
DavidC
Well, you are the pivileged witness of the reality of MULTICULTURALISM and INTERNATIONALISM - the NWO.
Force different nations and cultures together - and that is the result. Always has. Always will be.
But human arrogance to believe to be the crown of all living things and even stupid enough to believe standing above nature and it's eternal laws that do not know equality, instead of accepting being only one part of nature, will always lead to desaster.
If it is the stupidity to create a debt based monetary system based on exponential growth on a limited planet, or cultural Marxism that denies the differences between nations, cultures and races among the human species.
Be it the EUSSR, USSR, Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakia - or Detroit...
Mankind can ignore the differences, ignore biology for so long. Nature has time and it's laws react slowly. Sometimes they need hundreds of years to unfold. But one day the laws of nature will correct human stupidity.
Germans are not Greeks, Blacks different from Whites, men are different to women.
Politics follows biology.
Grab some popcorn and watch how the mentally ill, infected by cultural Marxism, do everything to keep living in their fata morgana of equality while the drama of the EUSSR unfolds and deepens with every measure they do, to rape the laws of nature.
We need something somewhere to break -- suddenly in the night.
I would love to see capital outflows from Greek banks tight about now.
My bet -- if this rhetoric keeps up -- we have a Greek bank failure by the end of the month.
how about breaking you?
would you take one for the team ???
... sucker ... typical german,
Breaking me?
Well stacking + cash -- that's gonna be difficult to do.
So if being prudent and fiscally conservative makes me a sucker, I'll thank you for the compliment Dr. Krugman.
i did not mean it literally ... i am not sure, if what you are doing is the best avenue forward ... my two cents
You are incoherent.
"Dr. Krugman."
No need to go all potty mouth on him.
When you owe the Bank $100K, you have a problem. When you owe the Bank $350 Billion, the Bank has a problem?
Greece has two choices. Either a very difficult future in servitude to Berlin and Brusels, or a very difficult future with its own currency and sovereignty and with new trading partners in the East.
Perhaps the EU needs to re-assess its position somewhat?
“To be born again,' sang Gibreal Farishta tumbling from the heaveans, 'first you have to die. Ho ji! Ho ji! To land upon the bosomy earth, first one needs to fly Tat-taa! Takatun! How to ever smile again, if first you won't cry? How to win the darling's love mister, without a sigh?” - S. Rushdie, "Satanic Verses"
Philo Beddoe
"I have an old Milli Vanilli tape that my girlfried left"
You have a girlfiend who listens to Milli Vanilli? *cough, shudder* I wonder if you understand this says a lot about you?
He said tape, no one listens to tapes anymore, I bet it has a half inch of dust on it, LOL
In this era any girl who would enter my bedroom was allowed to bring whatever she wanted. I was always hoping for another girl.
Hmm, so long as Clyde didn't get jealous! :>D
aplayer, you are kidding right?
Could Varoufakis be just the other part of the dialectic???...There's no business like showbusiness.
There's no way out of this mess now.
The guy without the tie can NOT be serious because he does not have a tie...
Germany will continue to play hardball - as will Greece. This will not end quietly and debt/equitiy volatility will continue to rise.
Nova
Right I think it is important to compare Post WWI Germany with Greece today. And the US 2005 - Bankruptcy Abuse Prevention and Consumer Protection Act of 2005 (BAPCPA), and 1978 - Bankruptcy Reform Act of 1978,
- WORLD AWASH WITH MORE DEBT THAN BEFORE FINANCIAL CRISIS...
- Number of billionaires surges to record high...
- World's superrich own $3 trillion in homes...
You are right, lets take the default all the way back to 1913, across the board, the Fed failed and now everyone pays, unless you got the money to do otherwise.
back to 1913
Everyone in the DeLorean.
Hang on.....the could get bumpy.
It's interesting you go back to 1913. I was thinking more along the lines of the Civil War. North vs. South. Serious disagreement over how things should be. Destroyed the union to save the union, etc.
Just in Europe and the Union is the EU instead of the US.
Not a perfect analogy, I admit, but the parallels are enough to draw my attention.
Yeah. Civil War over Economic Power issues? Maybe that makes sense.
- EU goes back to Treaty of Rome 1957, then the control & power was applied in 1999 over the Eurozone, initially it says the Dutch were making waves
- 1913 is the day the US Constitution was deregulated to shift power to private Banking Cartel
- 1861-1965 are the dates of Civil War (less than 100 years from the Union of the USA)
- Southern States, former Confederate states, are said to have been suppressed economically following the Civil War, Low Investment, Investment by Northern Yankees attempting to create monopolies or oligopolies...
And then there's that whole period from 1873-1896. It's called the Long Depression in the U.S., and it was probably the worst of economic times for this country. Remember this...they used ammunition as currency back then. But that was because a musket ball could arguably mean a meal for you. Today we have too many hunting/zoning laws for people to be able to provide for themselves unless they are growing it themselves. And then the ammunition will be for protection of those items and not for taking it down.
Yeah, I think the Bankers were very tight with money back then. Then after 1913 I see bankers tightening up again after the stock market crash (1929-1945) through the end of WWII. Funny how banks managed to find money to help Germany prior to WWII though...
Interesting point about ammo as currency.
I heard that farmers used silver certificates till the banks petitioned to remove them from circulation. Lots of stuff to shoot on a farm unless you have dust bowl conditions.
OK. In a EOTWAWKI situation, how much is $3T of homes actually worth?
The cascade effect is the reason nothing will happen again. Greece will get more "loans", they will lessen the austerity and everyone declares victory once again. Should be good for a 10% boost in the "markets". Isn't digital money fun!
SYRIZA scum is the most established of all established parties. This son of a bitch Varoufakis is the son of the greatest Greek industrialist and his wife's father was the greatest during the 80's.......................... Don't bite the stupid leftist propaganda you recieve here and elsewhere....
@Cognitive Dissonance - Yeah, this sliver of truth in an ocean of pretend is like ice cold water in the face. Bound to have unknowable effects. It's like a modern-day "Emperor has no Clothes" story.
cog - we all know greece is a small economic problem for the EU..all it's debt and debt swaps etc are not large enough to impact the west.
however varoufakis should be talking with other partners (putin)..if greece were to aline with russia offer naval bases - provide land for energy pipelines - that is what would shake the EU and US markets..I hope they do Putin has an opportunity to end run the Eu and USA lets hope he takes it.
I have no illusion Greece will take down the system. As I said above, something needs to be the trigger to begin the process.
And I suspect Greece has already had some secret high level discussions with Russia. It is just as clear to Greece as it is to us here on ZH and elsewhere there is a growing alignment against the west. If Greece wishes to free itself from debt slavery it is going to need help during the transition. Russia and China might just be that help.
Half a trillion, nah, drop in the bucket, for sure! However, there are other EU countries teetering too, with even bigger debt. This is so like watching grass grow.
CD- the ECB and the EU technocrats are smart enough to know this. That's why I think they'll stop at nothing on this. If Greece leaves the EU must make it so painful on them that other countries wouldn't dare try it in the future. Sanctions at least, possibly worse up to an including overthrowing the Greek government, and/or stationing UN "peace keeping" troops in Greece (for the safety of the citizens, of course).
If Greece goes, they must be utterly destroyed in the process. It's not even a choice. It must be done if they hope to preserve the EU and more importantly the Euro.
I suspect you are correct and something 'they' are telling Greece behind closed doors. Play or be destroyed because there is no retreat without utter defeat.
Your assumption that "Greece is too small to matter" is wrong.
Greece will never be allowed to reach East because the minute they do the tanks roll in Athens and we get Junta version ii , so stop talking about it. Tsipras knows that too.
The only way Greece can get the EU and German attention is to immediately put in place strict capital controls and make a statement to the effect that if they don't have an agreement in 48 hours they are defaulting and leaving the euro. The markets then will clearly show how important or unimportant a Grexit really is. Unfortunately both Tsipras and Varoufakis discarded that ace in the hole before the game even begun.
Just know...leaving the Euro would be incredibly disruptive to economic activity in Greece. Given time, and a lot of planning, and extensive periods of dual currency transactions with businesses...the impact could be minimimized, but not minimal and it would test the patience of the Greek citizenry. Patience that would need to last well beyond the typical political cycle. In the end, it's probably what they should do, but the Greek people need to know they will have to go to a lot of coastal surf to get to calmer waters.....right now, they're still just trolling around in the marina.
taraxias..good advice, but this time maybe it's the only action of sane men..Putin kicked the homo's out in the winter games..his country is trying to act with some moral standing vs the obvious deviate west..so greece has much in common with russia..but I get your fear..remember fear is the mind killer.
Of course this is a great reason for US futures to be screaming higher...
Is Brian Williams toast? Sure looks that way
http://tinyurl.com/qgf3lqb
Brian Williams can go to hell with the rest of his fellow presstitutes. The Fourth Estate has been a profound disappointment.
For you and I maybe, but most certainly not for the ruling class.
Presstitute Prozac.
Had Brian Williams warned us about Obama....I'd say let him go.
But it's strike 2....we can't just let him walk.
And I thought he could not lie, seeing how he likes big butts.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wpd2VaFt5iY
he can start his own blog or website .. i am sure he will have plenty of followers ... he is such a news personality
Paging Vincent Price to the white courtesy phone!
The funk of forty thousand years
And grisly ghouls from every tomb
Are closing in to seal your doom
It's a thriller, thriller...
Very similar to the late September 1938 meetings between the Czechs and the Germans where the Germans were making unrealistic demands of the Czechs to accept or be invaded. Germans it seems have a bad habit of this sort of thing and something tells me that the rest of Southern Europe has not forgotten those days now, particularly the Greeks.
Wasn't one of the first public functions by the new Greek PM to visit a memorial for hundreds of Greeks killed by Nazi's? You think he was trying to say something there?
Members of the Golden Dawn Party were arrested yesterday and trial is scheduled later which clearly shows the Greek PM got plenty of balls by taking preemptive action to limit any further escalation/destablization by the group.
The first thing you do when taking the reins of power is to consolidate your power and suppress all others.
It doesn't matter if you are the 'good' guys or not, you always play out this script.
Exactly.
From Yesterday;
TIME ONLINE: Immediately after the election, Alexis Tsipras visited a memorial to Those Who resisted Nazi Germany. That has therefore been of understood as a provocation. Is that a misunderstanding, as well?
Varoufakis: The Golden Dawn party has risen to become the third-strongest force in our parliament. They are not neo-Nazis; They Are Nazis. We must fight them, always and everywhere. Laying down roses on the monument was a message to the Nazis in my country. It was not a signal directed toward Germany.
You know, he might just be able to pass as (a) black (sheep).
You sir, have always been an optimist. Yes, let's hope this it. It would be nice to see bankers and financiers actually have to work for a living, like everyone else.
via https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=4046811478707691837&postID=1124396481163814455
Wayne Madsen warns of abundant signs that the new Greek Finance Minister Varoufakas is a Soros Trojan horse. Varoufakas has dual Australian/UK citizenship, ties to Brookings Institute, worked for a Bill Gates company.
He is a co-author w James Kenneth Galbraith, son of John K Galbraith who is linked to Brookings too.
Varoufakas was economic adviser to Papandreous, who initiated Greece's austerity.
-more:
http://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2015/01/29/a-soros-trojan-horse-in...
it didn't help matters when Yanis said relax, schnitzel face, it's all good.
What do the communists offer other than another failed communist utopia and spending money they don't have?
They offer to implode the Mega Banks and Political Stupidity. Hopefully after the carnage is cleaned up the worlds financial system will return to the basics. A world where credit is extended based on merrit not CDS's, CDO's and all the other financial engineering bullshit created by WallStreet.
The Banks are not on the hook for greek debt but other european nations.
The only thing the comunists offer is imploding Greece.
Sorry, the banks underwrote the bonds and then sold insurance against those bonds. Creating an illision that the bonds were safe when in fact they were only suited for ass wipe paper.
And now greeks expect anyone to give them money after that?
Their problem is: They want german money but not be thankful for it. So instead of being thankful they take the money and invent some bullshit around it, so that they can take the money and still hate Germany. It's quite a nonsensical childish attitude but it fits their mentality to the T.
NO, I think that the greek people expect everyone else to fuck off. Only the greeks can fix greece you stupid fuck.
Bullshit, if you want that you don't vote communists into power. And watch your language you liar.
credit default swaps are worth nothing if the banks declare it not a credit event
@escapeKey
i dont think this guy understand the concept of credit swaps and derivatives ... he seems to think all these "loans" that ballooned from 2.5 billion to 350 billion in a matter of few years is REAL MONEY ... it is not amigo ... and believe me, they have not done it only to Greece ... it will come to your neighboorhod soon ... they are careful with the frog, they dont raise the heat right away. ..
Party's Over: Originally, yes.
But the banks have long since escaped. The Troika and the EU holds most of the Greek debt now. Tyler posted an article on it yesterday and so did Bloomberg.
And of course, the insurance or CDS is a zero-sum game anyway.
So please stop with the "stick it to the banks" meme with respect to this situation. No banks will be hurt, sadly. Dutch truck drivers will suffer more than Goldman Sachs, I assure you.
There are those pesky derivatives, and who cares where the debt is currently, it's still debt and someone is holding it.
BOOM, out go the lights.
A global reset would be nice though! If you can make it through the chaos, to the other side???
They made you believe they were a failure and spent money they didn't have. They offer that.
First they build drones and bailout their banksters
Great let's see where this ends. You can't take what they haven't got. It's only bankers that are worried. Everyone I meet these days can't wait for the collapse !!
sheesh, it won't be a happy event. i can't help feeling that those who wish for it this badly not only will be massively disappointed when it DOES happen, but also that they have some sort of major gap in their lives of current
Agree. My wife thinks I'm wishing for it to happen, but there's a difference between wishing for something and grimly acknowledging its inevitability. It's going to be harsh, with lots of suffering going around.
Kinda like some trailer park whore wishing her husband would stop fucking other broads behind her back and start beating her instead.
I think it's something like having had a nagging dull toothache for DAYS..... and then you start looking at that pair of pliers on the table.
The pliers are gonna hurt like a motherfcker, but one more day of this dull consuming pain you will start looking at the gun instead.
No one is wishing for the pain the Pliers will bring, they just can't stand another day of the dull low level pain....
So let's leave it alone, 'cause we can't see eye to eye.
There ain't no good guys, there ain't no bad guys.
There's only you and me and we just disagree.
Billy Mack is a detective down in Texas
You know he knows just exactly what the facts is
He ain't gonna let those two escape justice
He makes his livin' off of the people's taxes
Bobbie Sue, whoa, whoa, she slipped away
Billy Joe caught up to her the very next day
They got the money, hey
You know they got away
They headed down south and they're still running today
Singin' go on take the money and run
I play it when the ES Market gets slow. It is motivating. LOL
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WCFUGCOLLU
+100 Dave Mason
I feel bad for YV because he looks like he is trying to negotiate with zombies aliens.
Just looking at the picture of the two of them. If you know nothing about financial matters at all, who would you follow? The miserable fucker on the left who looks as if he's just come out of a concentration camp or the engaging bald guy on the right?
The ECB has a persona problem.
The ECB has a debt problem, so does Greece, so tell me how they are different again?
Greece has a chance at fixing itself, albeit painfully. ECB, not so much
Do you really think they can fix themselves? I think you will see cocktails on the streets before that happens, but that is just my humble opinion. Your right about the ECB though!
Opportunity and action are two different things. I'm not optimistic, but I did point out a difference.
a headline we might see soon: russian navy vessels anchor at patraiis for good will visit. Greece welcomes the economic stimulus of visiting seamen. Schauble calls for war.
It looks like A WWF press conference before the match....there is no love there
I wonder if Schnitzel face offered him a cup of coffee during the meeting or did Varoufakis have to pay for it.
Very good, Yanis!
Just hold on!
David and the Central Bankers.
All that story took was a small smooth stone correctly placed. That outcome changed the World.tGood Luck Greece, looks like you started The 2015 Euro Winter, lets hope they don't force it to go Nuclear.
Waiting for Greece to announce the use of an internal currency. Gold? Silver? Bottle caps? I'm leaning towards caps...
There's a precedence for salt....sea salt.....better!
What about goat milk?
They put an order in (London) to print the money 3 years ago in case this occurred. And they won't accept bottle caps so you'll have to keep trading those on your own.
Context;ancient philosophers... v...money madmen
If Greece defaults then the banksters will have Varoufakis killed.
If Greece defaults, there will be hell to pay in the EU, the dominoes will start to fall quickly after that happens.
The domino is dead, long live the domino's.
If Greece defaults they will be the least of his worries...
Has anyone ever seen SCHAEUBLE smile?
I have never seen a picture of him without a dour look on his face. He must have a misreable existance.
He's in a wheelchair, so maybe that's why.
Fuck the whole lot of these Eurotwats.
Had to do an advanced search, but I found one.
Kinda creepy.
http://www.pi-news.net/2014/12/schaeuble-zuwanderung-verbessert-unseren-...
There will be more talks, and talks and talks, but the reality is Greece is insolvent, by their own socialist doings. That is not to say the ECB is any better, just the reality!
I think eventually, they will find a way to kick the can a bit further.
Damn, those cans must be pretty worn out by now!?
Unix,
Agreed about the ECB. If I, as a regular newspaper reader at the time, could see that it was accounting shenanigans by GS to shoehorn Greece into the EU, surely the ECB, with all its PhD economists could see the same?
DavidC
ok. , This should go down like this.
Greeks pay nothing from now on, because they can't.
One major " crowd event" on the new government and default is annouced the very next day.
Back to the drachma , back to growth , 50%+ haircut on idiots with bonds.
Euro goes one one on the dollar.US Markets only fall 15% on Bs. Europe down 30% on even bigger BS. Markets rebound somewhat by years end.
Gold$1500.
Wait a year , Portugal, and/or Spain follow.
Gold$2000
ect,..
My head is spinning just thinking about it.
Germany somehow expects austerity will continue to "work" in a country that has contracted already by a quarter of its former size in the last 5 years?
Germans are stubborn as fuck.
Greece should just default and walk away. How much more could they lose?
I don't know anything about the Lobbying in Deutschland.
But the Bankers make Bonus Money by convincing everyone that no Haircut is possible, haircuts are a bad idea, no one wants haircuts, banks can't afford haircuts, etc. So... the Leaders of the EU, ECB, & Germany say the same thing.
- Bonuses are tied to preventing haircuts, losses on Loans
Why would corporations ever agree to taking losses on Greek Loans or Greek Bonds????? It would be stupid business.
You are right. Greece should default, leave the EU, and go to Drachma... make deals with new people.
There has been a haircut by private investors. Just look it up.
The debt is now mostly held by other european nations.
yeah, had that an hour ago. I don't call it a bailout if you charge interest on a new loan. I think people that buy these bonds and make loans to Greece are idiot executives that should lose their bonus money and golden parachutes.
- Greece owes EUR 315bn(or $322 B Eur?)
- Entire Eurozone exposed to Athens for €195 billion
- Germany €60 billion, France €46 billion, Italy €40 billion
- In May 2010, leaders unveiled €110bn (£93bn) bailout from EU, ECB, and IMF
- In July 2010 leaders agreed another €109bn bailout, private bondholders took €50bn hit by accepting losses on their bonds without triggering CDS
- In 2012 the next bailout was $130 Billion Euros.
For the past 20 years, In Argentina the 10 year has only returned 70% of its principle. Instead of advertizing it, we hide the facts and move to a new country, where if they agree to the haircut, we publish the dealeo, if they don't, we move on and agree to disagree. The fork in the road has lead to Europe, the denial of it all has played out, and fat lady has sung and piper has lead Mr. Bond to the river. At the river their is noose and tree limb, you can take the easy way out, or swim across the river and begin life anew. It's your choice but the choice must be made now and published later, so which you choose? Burbon, whiskey or beer??
Well not sure how to describe all of this. I get what you are saying and seems true.
But where are the Responsible parties in the Banks or other instututions that made these loans and bought these bonds?
It really looks like a game played by both sides. Maybe the equal of US State Department giving money to leaders of countries to wage terror war, establish relationships with their military & train them in our schools, and ...provide bribe money for weapons, buildings, someone's bank account, maybe tuition for someone's sons in American Schools. A Game. Money is given to someone for an expected payoff.
Who signed these loan and Bonds deals? How much money did they make from the deals and from salary & compensation? It there an incentive to make poor deals?
- Big Three Auto Makers in the USA are on the Decline, and GM has had multiple bailouts. Who sined their union agreements, who ran those budgets and spend too much on Executive Bonuses and Compenation? Lee Iacoca? yes, and he is probably rich from it.
NAZI
teeth...
there is always a winner in every trade...
Greece will default... it is normal modern economics.
So ...
Varoufakis: "We must address the systemic issues in the Eurozone or risk..."
Schaeuble: "Just shut the f**k up and pay me."
Don't make us send Paulie.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ydqjqZ_3oc
SCHAEUBLE: GREECE MUST WORK WITH TROIKA AS PER PRIOR AGREEMENTS...
... based on which agreement exactly? Which contract? What does Troika even mean?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troika
It's a ride!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troika_(ride)
Varoufakis will not be finance minister for long.
The knives have already been drawn for his demise.
Let's see if he an cause any mayhem before the first knife strikes his back.
We want your property that includes oil and natural gas under it for the "fake interst" that we know you can never "repay" the Troika...
And our manager Uncle Sam that has had military bases on you for the last 65 years has no intention of leaving even when you tell him he has to leave! After all... He has another World War to start and your Country like the rest of Europe is the "spring board" into that pool!!!
....and seemingly unnoticed in US news. Challenger jobs cuts was rather ugly. Good for a green ramp in futures. Guess its a bad is good day. i can never tell.
The lack of ties and unbuttoned shirts tells me who's in charge in the lender-debtor government bond thing.
When other people owe you money and can't pay, they don't call you out as an asshole and show up looking like they just fell out of bed.
Government bonds are SUCKERS' BETS.
I can't wait for the Italians to do the same. I want to see better suits if you're going to go tieless.
Three Greek banks tap two billion euros in emergency funding: sources
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2015/02/03/uk-eurozone-greece-banks-exclusive-idUKKBN0L70VT20150203
Three of Greece's four major banks have started to tap emergency funding from the Greek central bank as some depositors have withdrawn their money due to political uncertainty, two sources familiar with the situation told Reuters on Tuesday.''
Its pretty clear that.
1) the Greek finance minister knows what hes talking about and seems to have some real ideas on
creative resolution .
2) Merkel ect.. who tried to push him seem to have much less of an idea.. for all the crap about how well ECB Draghi has done.. 1/2 the EU has over 10-20% unemployment ro his policy is a complete failure.
Negative rates have been a complete disaster (prob German idea they seem to be into punishment.. everyone must be punished,,they should have gone for QE or left it a zero...
no focus on resolution unless its Germany that has issue (WW!/WW2/ German reunification)
So if Greece starts a war kills 20 mill plus then they get restructure right..
Just like with QE where Germany insisted for months it should not happen (but were out voted by ITaly/Spain/France/Irland/Portregal ect..
So too here they will be out voted and this smart Greek Finance minister will get a deal because hes the only one that makes any sense and the rest (Merkel / German finance minister) are just yabbering a party line..
Or maybe the WW2 debt forgivness to Germany should be re looked at.. indexed for inflation and the paid back to the relevent parties (ahh right guess thats not up for discussion)..
Can someone explain the basics of how this all began? Did Greece already have a lot of debt due to social programs and then the EU loaned them even more?Did this all start with the 2008/09 crisis?
Is the "austerity" an impact on the banks of Greece or the individual citizens (if so how).
My apologies for the elementary questions here. I've been trying to follow this but didn't know the underlying history.
Thanks.
IT all started at the beginning...WW1
When a financial advisor dupped a client.......
Everyone says Greek budget & debt looked bad prior to them joining the EU, they say JPM or GS dressed up the Debt to make it look good. Wikipedia states Greece joined the EU on 1 January 1981. Eurozone, Monetary Union, is dated 1 January 1999, Greece's Debt is more of an issue for Eurozone, so JPM or GS probably worked it around 1999.
Then I got this from the Telegraph:
- George Papandreou followed in the footsteps of his father and grandfather in 2009, becoming the third member of his family to serve as Greek Prime Minister. But he soon discovered that the country had been understating its public debts for years, and two months into his new job Greece's credit rating - the assessment of the country's ability to pay its bills - was downgraded from A- to BBB+ by Fitch.
I assume corrupt governments (all of them) spin and lie about their Debts, GDP, Inflation, and Employment Levels... but when you think of the PIIGS you don't think of growth in Development either. Like today in the USA after 1979 top employment in Manufacturing... followed by decapitalization and decline... PIIGS didn't see Investment at high levels.
The squid helped them get into the EU by lying about Greek debt levels. The Eurozone spice flowed for a while, enriching politicians and the usual back hander gang. Mr Papandreou became the most highly paid leader in the world. Then, suddenly and with great surprise to all, Greece starting having debt problems. The Greek people were asked to pay up, many of them went to Syntagma square to throw things. Lots of the people who were throwing things came together to form a socialist dream team and oust the EU glove puppets. So here we are.
That was an awesomely succint description of the situation.
Now that the spice flow will certainly be disrupted, the Greeks must not fear, for fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that will bring total obliteration. The Greeks must face their fear. They must permit it to pass over them and through them, and when it has gone past, they can turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing, only Greece will remain.
1) Greece received billions every year from the EU. This was NOT debt, but part of an EU wide program to help poorer regions. Directly paid for by richer european nations.
2) On top of that the greek state took on 300 billion of debt, which grew more and more and in 2010 led to their bancruptcy. This debt was mostly from banks.
3) They spend their money on nonsensical stuff. For example they had more state employees than even Germany.
4) The "austerity" is an attempt to get the spending in Greece under control. It came after Greece was bancrupt.
Schauble a true globalist wants a global tax
Germany’s Wolfgang Schäuble Promotes Globalist Tax Collection
I'm sympathetic to Greece and I've to say to commentators saying "Greece cannot do it because then Italy and Spain will" that that is a false problem.
The big difference is that Greek debt (at least, the part Greece wants to default on) is held mostly by other EU Member States, the ECB and the IMF: a default is possible because the immediate pain would be felt by states and international insitutions, not (not right away, at least) by the Greek citizens or EU citizens, nor by Greek banks, since that's the part the Greek government wouldn't default on.
Italy and Spain have their debt held largely by the public and their own public at that, so the default would immediately hurt their citizens and their banks. It would be suicidal for their economies and the governments' political life.
Now, the much more real case is that if Greece gained some ease on the primary surplus/GDP ratio, that would be something Italy, Spain and others (France, for instance) would want to have as well... which is why Germany is adamant not only about haircuts, but also general easing of the greek budget conditions.
I wonder if the old Dracmas I still have as souvenirs will be legal tender soon again, that'd be neat.
...then there is reality! Who cares who holds it, it has to be paid to the vultures. Where is this money coming from?
The sad part is that me and my family will be forced to cough up €3000 and we didn't even order Greek.
The Dutch, German and Finnish middle class will take the hit. Good job indeed.
You didn't really think you could sleep with the EU and not catch something, did you?
Time to take your Wasserman test. Hold still, this is gonna hurt.
Stand tall Varoufakis. The longer they struggle to make you bend over, the more they shit bricks.
This has yet to get started, see the DAX for this.