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Guest Post: How Vaccine Hysteria Could Spark A Totalitarian Nightmare
Authored by Lee Hieb, M.D., originally published at World Net Daily, via Alt-Market blog,
Gov. Chris Christie has been vilified for making a very simple statement – that parents (and presumably patients themselves) should have the freedom to choose whether to vaccinate their children. I have been asked for years what I thought about vaccination, so let me lay out the issues.
Before getting into the science, lets discuss the philosophy:
1. The voices shrieking to forcibly vaccinate people are the same voices shrieking to support a woman’s right to choose abortion under Roe v. Wade. If a woman’s body is sacrosanct, if she has the right to choose to deliver a child or not, if she has total authority over her body, how can she not have the right to accept or refuse a vaccination?
2. Medical ethics are clear: No one should be forced to undergo a medical treatment without informed consent and without their agreement to the treatment. We condemn the forced sterilization of the ’20s and ’30s, the Tuskegee medical experiments infecting black inmates and the Nazi medicine that included involuntary “Euthanasia,” experimentation and sterilization. How can we force vaccination without consent? Vaccination is a medical treatment with risks including death. It is totally antithetical to all ethics in medicine to mandate that risk to others.
3. Science is never “concluded.” Mr. Obama and other ideologues may think the truth is finalized (“The science is indisputable”), but the reality is our understanding of disease and treatment are constantly being updated. Just like Newton’s mechanical paradigm of the universe was supplanted by Einsteinian physics, and physicists today modify that view, medical “truth” is not the truth for long. In an attempt to quantify change in medicine, years ago a cardiology journal discussed “The Half-life of Truth.” cardiologists looked back in their journal at 20-year-old articles to see how much of what was believed then was still believed to be true. The answer? 50 percent. So in cardiology, at least – and in all of medicine to greater or lesser degree – only half of what we believe now will still be true in 20 or so years. The last word on vaccination is not in. It hasn’t even begun to be written.
4. If you believe absolutely in the benefit and protective value of vaccination, why does it matter what others do? Or don’t do? If you believe you need vaccination to be healthy and protected, then by all means vaccinate your child and yourself. Why should you even be concerned what your neighbor chooses to do for his child – if vaccination works? The idea of herd immunity is still based on the idea that in individual cases vaccines actually are protective.
5. If you think the government has the right to forcibly vaccinate people – for the good of society – what is to prevent them from forcibly sterilizing people, or forcibly euthanizing people, or forcibly implanting a tracking device – for the good of society? You make think those examples are extreme (although two-thirds have happened), but the principle is the same. You are allowing government to have ultimate authority over your body.
So, I’ve been asked, “Why not vaccinate your children? Why not take the influenza vaccine?” Well, I believe the choice is up to you. I’ve covered my thinking about the influenza vaccine in an article in the Journal of the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons, available online, but here are some facts about childhood vaccines that make me think twice about their use. I traced these points back to the source, so these are not blindly reprinted from hearsay Internet articles. In some cases I found public references to be wrong but the data to be correct when I got to the source. Much of this comes from government reporting. Anyone can research disease incidence by reading MMWR (Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report) from the CDC and accessing the search engine for VAERS (Vaccine complication reporting site) at http://www.medalerts.org/vaersdb/index.php.
1. Since 2005 (and even before that), there have been no deaths in the U.S. from measles, but there have been 86 deaths from MMR vaccine – 68 of them in children under 3 years old. And there were nearly 2,000 disabled.
2. In countries which use BCG vaccinations against tuberculosis, the incidence of Type I diabetes in children under 14 is nearly double. (“Infectious Disease in Clinical Practice” no. 6 pages 449-454, 1997)
3. As reported in Lancet in 1995, inflammatory bowel disease (i.e. Crohn’s and ulcerative colitis) is 13 times more prevalent in persons vaccinated for measles.
4. In a nested case-control study within the General Practice Research Database (GPRD) in the United Kingdom, patients who had a first MS (Multiple Sclerosis) diagnosis recorded were compared with controls. The authors concluded that immunization with the recombinant hepatitis B vaccine is associated with a threefold increased risk of developing MS (Hernan et al., 2004). No increased risk of MS was associated with other vaccines, which included tetanus and influenza vaccinations.
5. In 1982 William Torch, a prolific researcher and publisher on Neurologic topics, presented a paper (later published) at the American Academy of Neurology reviewing SIDS deaths. He reported that in 100 consecutive cases, 70 percent of SIDS deaths occurred within three weeks of pertussis vaccination. In very convincing confirmation, a Japanese prefecture stopped vaccinating after associating SIDS with the pertussis vaccine. It is worth reading the entire description from Viera Scheibner, PhD:
In 1975, about 37 Crib Sudden Deaths were linked to vaccination in Japan. Doctors in one prefecture boycotted vaccinations, and refused to vaccinate. The Japanese government paid attention and stopped vaccinating children below the age of 2 years. When immunization was delayed until a child was 24 months of age, Sudden Infant Death cases and claims for vaccine related deaths disappeared. Japan zoomed from a high 17th place in infant mortality rate to the lowest infant mortality rate in the world when they stopped vaccinating. Japan didn’t vaccinate any children below the age of 2 years between 1975 and 1988, for 13 years. But then in 1988, Japanese parents were given the choice to start vaccinating anywhere between 3 months and 48 months. The Ministry study group studied 2,720 SIDS cases occurring between 1980 and 1992 and they established that their very low SIDS rate quadrupled.
6. A mail survey was done of 635 children in the Netherlands in 2004. German measles and whooping cough (pertussis) were twice as common in unvaccinated children. However, throat inflammations, ear infections, rheumatologic complaints, seizures and febrile convulsions were much more common in the vaccinated group. Aggressive behavioral episodes were eight times more frequent in vaccinated children, and sleep disordered more often. Tonsils were removed in 33 percent of children who had been vaccinated vs. 7.3 percent unvaccinated.
7. In 1947, the first reports of brain inflammation and chronic brain damage, including death, after pertussis vaccination began to be published (Brody, 1947; Byers and Moll, 1948, Low, 1955, Berg, 1958; Strom, 1960, 1967; Dick, 1967, 1974; Kuhlenkampff, 1974; Stewart, 1977, 1979). But it took more than 40 years of collective evidence before academic medicine decided it was true –1981 National Childhood Encephalopathy Study (NCES) and in 1991 and 1994 by the Institute of Medicine, National Academy of Sciences.
In 1991, after reviewing vaccine safety, the Institute of Medicine admitted, “In the course of its review, the committee encountered many gaps and limitations in knowledge bearing directly or indirectly on the safety of vaccines. These include inadequate understanding of the biologic mechanisms underlying adverse events following natural infection or immunization, insufficient or inconsistent information from case reports and case series, inadequate size or length of followup of many population based epidemiologic studies [and] few experimental studies published in relation to the number of epidemiologic studies published.”
So the next question is: Does vaccination work? Does it really protect you against disease? The answer is variable. Smallpox vaccine seems to be nearly universally protective against the very fatal disease of smallpox, and use of vaccine led to the eradication of the disease in the wild. But the dirty little secret in recent outbreaks of mumps, measles and pertussis is – they are occurring in vaccinated people in highly vaccinated populations!
In 2006 an epidemic of mumps broke out in my state of Iowa. Ultimately, 11 states reported 2,597 cases of mumps. The majority of mumps cases (1,487) were reported from Iowa. As reported in “Mumps Epidemic – Iowa, 2006,” “Despite control efforts and a highly vaccinated population, this epidemic has spread across Iowa and potentially to neighboring states.” According to the CDC, “During the prevaccine era, nearly everyone in the United States experienced mumps, and 90 percent of cases occurred among children, although 97 percent of children entering school in Iowa had received two doses of MMR vaccine. ” Of note, this outbreak mostly occurred in young adults of college age who had received the vaccine. Only 6 percent of those affected were known to be unvaccinated, 12 percent received one dose of MMR vaccine, 51 percent had two doses of MMR vaccine, and 31 percent (mostly adults) were not sure of their immunization history.
In 2008-2009, Australia had epidemics of whooping cough and measles. Health authorities there must reveal the vaccination status of children in epidemics. Eighty-four percent of Australian children who got whooping cough were fully vaccinated, and 78 percent who got measles had record of measles vaccination.
In the 2010 outbreak of whooping cough in California, well over half the victims were fully vaccinated.
Whooping cough continuously declined in the U.S. from over 100,000 cases in 1922 to around 1978 when 2,063 cases were reported. That year, pertussis vaccine became mandated for school attendance. Beginning around 1995, when the U.S. had 5,137 cases, the incidence has increased, to 2012 when over 48,000 cases were reported, including 20 deaths. The majority of deaths were in newborns under three months of age. Why is this happening? It is not because people are not becoming vaccinated. The CDC says more than 84 percent of children under 3 years old have been vaccinated with four doses of pertussis vaccine. But the current vaccine does not include all strains of pertussis. And the most vulnerable to the disease – the small infants – are not able to take the vaccine. Since older children and adults are much less likely to die of whooping cough, the question that must be asked is this: Is vaccination effective in producing antibody transfer from mother to infant? Or is it better to allow the natural disease to occur?
Finally, it turns out that death and disability from many childhood diseases is preventable by means other than vaccination. Vitamin A has been known since the 1930s to reduce mortality from measles by 60 percent. Vitamin D is protective against viral illness. And numerous authors and studies have shown the damaging effects of chemical antipyretics (fever lowering drugs) on the natural course of disease – a practice still sadly in widespread use in America. Better understanding of disease mechanisms, utilizing nutritional support and better scientific care of the sick child are safer alternatives to widespread vaccination.
Perhaps one of the best perspectives on the whole vaccination paradigm is provided by Dr. Harold Buttram, M.D., FAACP:
As one of today’s senior citizens who grew up in a Midwestern state in the 1930s, and as a doctor who has treated many children, I may have a special vantage point of time and experience in regard to the changes that have taken place in the health of America’s children since the relatively innocent times of the 1930s. At summer camps in the New Mexico Mountains that I was fortunate to attend, no boy had allergies, none was on medication, and no boy was ever sick with the common ailments of today. It was much the same in schools. I don’t recall ever seeing a child with easily recognized behaviors now described as hyperactivity (ADHD) or autism.
Today in stark contrast, approximately one-third of our youngsters are afflicted with the 4-A Disorders (Autism, ADHD, Asthma, and Allergies), as described and documented by Dr. Kenneth Bock. School budgets are being strained to the breaking points in providing special education classes for autistic and learning disabled children. Allergy problems are proliferating, as indicated by long lines of children at school nursing stations for their noontime medications.
Could today’s infant and childhood vaccine programs, with their steadily increasing numbers of vaccines, be a contributory cause of this ominous health trend? As reflected in the U.S. Congressional Hearings (1999 to December 2004) on issues of vaccine safety, in which major deficiencies in vaccine safety testing were disclosed, it is a real possibility that vaccines may be one of the major, if not the major cause of this trend.
I, too, am old enough to remember these times. We are changing the pattern of disease, but not necessarily making our children nor ourselves healthier. We are converting benign childhood disease into more severe adult disease. Consider the chickenpox vaccine. We used to have chickenpox parties where small children were purposely exposed to kids sick with chickenpox. In those days, every mother or grandmother knew it was safer for toddlers to get the disease early and not wait until teenage years. Now we vaccinate, but of course that vaccine is only effective for 15-20 years, so now adults must constantly be revaccinated or run the risk of getting a life-threatening severe form of chickenpox. The shingles uptick is directly attributable to the lack of re-exposure of older people to the wild chickpox virus. But not to worry – the drug companies can sell us a shingles vaccine for a disease their previous vaccine created.
We have forgotten that for most normal children, childhood diseases are benign. As recounted about mumps in the Iowa Department of Public Health Manual, “it is more common in infants, children and young adults. Of people who are not immunized, >85 percent will have mumps by adulthood, but symptoms may have been mild and therefore not recognized.”
At the end of the day, the issue here is one of freedom, and freedom is the freedom to choose – even if we make a bad choice. The argument that I must vaccinate my children for the good of the community is not only scientifically questionable, it is an unethical precept. It is the argument all dictators and totalitarians have used. “Comrade, you must work tirelessly for the good of the collective. You must give up your money and property for the good of the collective, and now … you must allow us to inject your children with what we deem is good for the collective.” If American’s don’t stand up against this, then we are lost. Because we have lost ownership of ourselves. Our bodies are no longer solely ours – we and our children are able to be commandeered for the “greater good.”
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He did indeed fuck that one up.
I upvoted you, but the problem I have is not with the law of large numbers per se, but the notion that anyone should be compelled to take part. Not all collectivism is insidious or bad. Just the forced kind.
The smallpox vaccine was a live cowpox virus, so even if you weren't vaccinated, you had a good chance of being infected by people who were (as long as most people were). A means of herd vaccination. It was very first vaccine and it was very effective.
Sorry no debt. Simply not true. For one thing the original vaccination was live virus. Cowpox to prevent Small pox. Live virus provides the best antigenic exposure to stimulate memory cells conferring the best immunity. This vaccine had no other components. Preservatives, adjuvants which can be antigenic in themselves. I should know this. I have a severe adjuvant allergy and have had extremely horrible reactions to vaccinations. Infection with wild type virus ALWAYS trumps vaccination. For years I have seen hundreds of people come down with 2009H1N1, most were vaccinated and this strain has been included in the annual flu shot for years.
The issue is not vaccination but the health of the native population. We have interacted for millions of years with viruses, prions and bacteria. There is no escape. There are 10 trillion microbes inhabiting our bodies vs 1 trillion of our own cells. Most are benign, some opportunistic and a few pathogenic. As long as we live in a manner that keeps this balance we will have good health and have the best chance to survive a foreign virus that invades. Much research today has shown this is true. Our native bacteria is very important to our physical as well as mental health. Today with wide spread use of antibiotics and garbage foods we are disrupting this balance.
This article is spot on.
Miffed
Beautiful post man.
Can't up arrow you enough
Thank you. But FYI, I'm a woman ;-)
Miffed;-)
My commiserations, but a good post regardless.
Yes, I must admit it is certainly a royal pain in the ass at times. A life of monkey brain and endless conflicting impulses. I hope the noise in my head doesn't bother others too much.
Miffed;-)
:-)
I only take antibiotics when I have a bacterial infection that my body is having a difficult time fighting off. The idea that antibiotics should be used prophylacticly in the agricultural industry limits my options when it comes to doing this due to contributing greatly to the rise of antibiotic resistant bacteria. If the government was really regulating things to look out for our best interests, it would hammer the agricultural industry over this. But if they did that, some cronies might not profit as much. How about intensively grazing cattle and other livestock on a small portion of land for a very short period of time, then moving onto another and not coming back to that plot of land until it has regrown its flora instead of intensive feed lots where disease requires the heavy use of antibiotics? We're finding that's the way it is done in nature if humans stay out of it, and that it is best for both the animals and the land. Herd animals should feed and be herded in the same ways that wild predators would cause them to feed and be herded. Besides, grass fed beef tastes better anyways.
So sorry, wrong place.
The problems we are seeing with the measles outbreak is not related to the refusal to vaccinate. It is the influe of diseased children coming over the unprotected border from other countries. This is the hidden truth you won;t hear from the comuunist media or our lying government. Government caused this and should not be trusted to fix it.
Oh my god don't bring that up....
Just because someone coming across the border with god knows what diseases, You don't think that would have an affect would you?
/sarc
the kids coming over with measles would not be such a problem if the kalifornians took their vaccines...
there are some things you just don't want to get, smallpx, polio, measles, chicken pox, mumps and rheubella...
the flu shot and others you can take a pass on
I'm old enough that (in pre-vaccine times) I came down with polio, measles, chicken pox, mumps and rheubella. Not smallpox thankfully. Spent a lot of time in bed.
Pretty much everybody got measles and chicken pox. The virus that causes the latter can lead to shingles later on. Really miserable disease.
That's where the logic breaks down.
"My kids GOT vacinated, they are in danger of CATCHING the disease from those who didn't"
Yes, I got vaccinated against polio, I have the little O up on my shoulder to prove it.
Did I trust the Medical community in the 50's? Yes,
Did I trust the Government's intentions back then? Yes.
Do I trust the Medical Community today? NO
Do I trust the Government's intentions now? NO
Just listen to the drug ads on the TV some night.
Listen to the warnings... "Might cause death, Teenage boys to grow tits..." I shit you not.
And that's the drug's the Government's FDA said are good and safe for us to use. Bullshit.
US and New Zealand are the only two countries that let Big Pharma advertise on tv. btw.
How many mass shootings by people comming off FDA Approved, Doctor Prescribed Drugs?
50 million polio cubes were tanted with VS40 a virus that caused cancer why do you think it is an epedemic in America at the moment ,and they knew it was tanted.
It was the SV40, but close enough, spot on...
For those who missed it upthread... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZ5-liXcXLI
Sv40 increases the risk of getting mesothelioma by 93%. I know someone dying of it who was in the age group which got that v tainted vaccine. Minimal asbestos exposure - sometimes playing with his dad's work gloves as a kid.
NAMBLA Medical Association approved.
but there's scientific consensus that those antipsychotic drugs are absolutely safe. are you anti-scientific consensus?
I am in the anti-consensus crowd - prefer to think for myself and let the chips fall where they may
>>>US and New Zealand are the only two countries that let Big Pharma advertise on tv.
Possibly true, but I've lived in NZ for fifteen years and never seen a prescription drug advertisement in TeeVee, radio or print media.
FWIW essentialy all prescriptions for all patients are $5 a pop, to cover paperwork and inventory costs. It's a bit of a surprise at first, to actually receive a useful benefit from the government. That's socialism for you.
I upvoted you, and I expect your last sentence was uttered ironically but that "benefit" you received had to have been outweighed by its actual (hidden) cost to you. The state is a parasite; it creates nothing and can only "give" what it has taken first by force (minus an unconscionably huge handling fee). But if you are a Kiwi taxpayer, you already know and live that. My sincere condolences.
Usually most of you seem rational, but in this case, feel free to take steps to validate the safety of the vaccine, and then use it. The health of modern society, as opposed to earlier times with much higher death rates, at younger ages, and of horrible diseases, is based largely on herd immunity. Even if I can protect myself, why would I want smallpox in my neighborhood? The problem with your thinking is simply that you have never seen a person with smallpox. And that is because of vaccinations.
No one will hold you or your kids down and forcibly administer injections. But we will prevent you and yours from gaining admission to public schools, universities and, maybe, hospitals, without a record of proper immunizations. Be aware that immune-compromised individuals are often protected not by their vaccinations, but by yours.
"The health of modern society, as opposed to earlier times with much higher death rates, at younger ages, and of horrible diseases, is based largely on herd immunity. "
That statement is completely full of shit - almost word by word. The health of modern society has much more to do with improved hygiene and nutrition. Try to think, it isn't as painful as you fear. How did the "herd immunity" develop that you so blithely credit modern health with?
The very poor reasoning you exhibit is exemplified by your jump to smallpox as if smallpox and measles, or mumps, or the flu, are the same thing. Smallpox has a fatality rate of about 35% even in modern societies. The risk/reward is lopsidedly in favor of vaccination. Measles is something completely different. The mortality of measles in a modern civilization is miniscule. The mortality of the vaccinations, coupled with the known complications such as encephalitis, and the failure to obtain lifelong immunity which came with an incidence of the disease in childhood, make the case against vaccination very hard to dispute.
Whether the risk reward favors vaccination or not, however, does not make the consideration of state force, or coercion, a rational one. Even in the case of a deadly disease such as smallpoox, if the vaccine works, you have nothing to fear from me not being vaccinated. The only argument that can be raised is one of consideration of the immune compromised. That says that the liberties of the healthy majority should be limited to increase freedom for the unhealthy minority. However, even if you forced me to be vaccinated the unhealthy person is STILL at greater risk moving about freely than if they restrict themselves. Your argument devolves into reducing my liberty so you can increase the risk for the unhealthy. They only beneficiary is the state. Shove your thinking up your ass.
"I've seen the needle & the damage done."
Neil Young
you realize newborns aren't vaccinated until various ages of their life right?
Fucking tool.
Not true. Hep B vaccination is given in the birthing suite.
Blood-brain barrier matures at about 2 years of age. Until then, anything in the blood can cross it. Not a good thing if antigens cross it. Such as vaccines.
But you know that, of course.
Actually they all get the Hep B vax hours after birth now. I watched my godson react to it and then with each subsequent vaccine.
Convenient, as docs & pharma can claim that any reaction/effect 'started at birth', iow not the vaccines. They are cleaning up the messy mess that is 'regressive autism', which had of course never been a thing until the the vaccine schedule was increased, and the vaccine production companies pre-emptively exonerated in case of any lawsuits. Weird how the actual facts and timeline of this shit are never referenced in the 'real' media isn't it?
Dense people being dense.
The point being babies are at risk of catching various preventable illnesses until about 6-years old. Your point about only 1 vac at birth validates my point that babies are at risk of catching various deadly diseases for an extended period of their early life.
To say that vaccinated people shouldn't care because they're already vaccinated is pretty foolish.
4. If you believe absolutely in the benefit and protective value of vaccination, why does it matter what others do?
Because its not about health... It's about CONTROL.
It's about making sure the children of complete and absolute imbeciles such as yourself aren't killed by the horrific diseases you allow them to get due to your idiocy.
That's right. Because the medical industry is always looking out for my best interest. You're a douchebag.
Indeed. Why even bother with parents? Why not make all children wards of the state at birth?
Aren't they?
You are absolutely right. And, in keepng with your shitbrained reasoning, we will also mandate that women stay at home and breastfeed until at least 3 years of age as that provides the greatest immunity at the lowest risk for those oh so vulnerable and loveable children.
But that's not what the MAJORITY says.
Read LIBERAL's post above. The MAJORITY via THE GOV. Believes it's right.
The Best Doctor's Money BOUGHT said so.
/sarc
Whenever the MSM virulently ridicules someone for asking questions, my antenna goes up. It makes me suspect some hidden agenda is being threatened. Global warming and vaccine skeptics definitely fall into this category.
WAKE UP DUMBASSES! The Fuken instant this outbreak started the blame was stuck on the Autism crowd...HOW MUCH DO YOU WANT TO FUKEN BET....Measels came here, and is being spread by, ILLEGAL FUCKING ALIENS...absolutely NO MENTION OF THAT POSSIBILITY...Hell FUCKEN NO...let's blame the mothers of Autistic Children for this...and YOU DUMBASSES EAT IT UP.
GIVE ME THE STATS!
1. How many LEGAL residents that COULD/SHOULD have been vaccinated have the measles? All I see in the news are babies that cannot be vacinated.
2. HOW MANY ILLEGAL FUKING ALIENS HAVE MEASLES? Yeah, no reporting on those numbers...
~50,000 illegal children pour across the border, "Mystery Illnesses" begin killing our children and the Measles ramps up...
WAKE THE FUCK UP.
You are better off getting the measles as a child (and developing lifelong immunity) than being vaccinated (wth the attendant risks) and then havng your immunity decline at an unknown rate over the years. Of course, you can always pay a few bucks and have your body regularly injected with mercury and thimerasol instead.
Measles vaccine simply doesn't work. Data was faked. This is well known amongst those who pay attention to these things.
You do not have the right to harm your child by forcefully subjecting them to horrific diseases when they are not vaccinated.
You're an idiot
"forcefully subject"??
You are indeed a "State Theist".
Your 18 year.old.kid kills a guy while.robbing a liquor store.
Did you harm the dead man?
Probably.
Dupl.
Dupl.
Probably.
"Your 18 year.old.kid kills a guy while.robbing a liquor store.
Did you harm the dead man?"
Define "harm".
And you don't have the right to tell me or anyone else for that matter what we can and cannot do, so were even I guess.
But you do have the right to forcefully inject them with the disease and a cocktail of mercury and other heavy metals so long as the government is willing to sahip Merck a few bucks on your behalf.
You won't validate the vaccine as being good, I won't validate your need to enter into any public buildings. Y'all can safely stew in your measles virus at home. But all this aside, the moment the measles kills/harms someone one of these oh-my-god-my-children-are-too-precious-to-be-vaccinated parents knows, there'll be the fight of all fights as everyone rushes to get their kids vaccinated.
Fear will dominate everything.
As the author points out, measles has killed zero people in the USSA for at least 10 years. MMR vaccine has killed about 100. And the 100 is the reported ones. It is accepted that only about 10% of vaccine reactions are reported, and thus counted.
So, zero fatalities vs. about a thousand. Which do you think might be the better risk? Tough question, I know.
Yeah, fully support that.
Thing is, your child is NOT your body.
Now, i'm for freedom of choice, but I'm wrestling with supporting vaccines for my ten month old grandson or laying the 'over my dead body'.
This is a tough one. I have the circle on my arm, I've had a shitload of vaccines in my youth. But I was also invoved in measles, mumps (and wtf was the other in the 60's) exposure parties, as were my sisters. I recall exactly zero deaths from any disease back in my childhood days from measles, mumps, rubella...(hell, we got vaccinated for rubella to prevent birth defects in FUTURE babies).
The only disease outbreak I recall from the 60's is a flare of bubonic plague in Colorado.
My dad recalls swimming in Bologna Creek in Culver City, CA. The Bologna in the creek were turds floating by from the City of Angels. Dad's worse case of the flu was a year ago...lasted a day. He's 85.
"I'm wrestling with supporting vaccines"
Spread the vaccines out; the doctor wants to give them as fast as possible, multiple at the same time, for efficiency.
Say no to that, get one, wait, get another wait; this gives the body a chance to deal with them one at time instead of overwhelming your system with everything at once.
Remember that some vaccines are just weakened versions of the REAL THING...your body needs time to deal with these injections.
And wait till the kids are two years old before you give ANY. Blood-brain barrier should be mature.
After 2 years, you may start thinking the kids are remarkably healthy considering the lack of all those essential immunizations. Far healthier than their friends. No ear infections, no flu, colds don't bother them. Then you may decide to wait another year or two.
My kids had mumps a few weeks ago. The worst-affected was sick for a day.
Hope any boys were children and not adolescents. For some reason, mumps can sterilize boys who are starting to sexually mature.
Yeah, that was mr Miffed's hope but he got me pregnant on the first try.
Miffed;-)
Hi, Miffed.
Better yet, don't take them. The ONLY reason anyone believes in these poisons is because of the propaganda brought to you by the same people fucking with financial systems. It's all one big game of control.
http://www.whale.to/vaccine/ImmunizationGraphs-RO2009.pdf
Do you feel competent enough to judge if it makes sense or not? Do you understand how vaccine works and why it is used in the first place? In the case you don't vaccinate and exactly this desease hits you(or your children) how would you feel about it?
Yeah, or if you vaccinate and the kid get's encephalitis and dies whow would you feel? I know it is rare - but so were/are complications to measles, mumps and rubella. Vaccinations need to be evaluated on an individual basis.
http://www.whale.to/vaccine/ImmunizationGraphs-RO2009.pdf
http://www.relfe.com/wp/children/vaccinations-science-fraud/
See for yourself and don't believe the hype from those who profit.
Same as usual folks, follow the money!
Oh bullshit, it's a public health issue just like smoking cigarrettes in public. It's not just your body, it's everyone else's kids.
The problem is you're making this "choice" for someone else . Someone who isn't competent enough to understand the risk you are putting him or her through. THAT's the problem. We're you vaccinated? How did you turn out? Good thing your parents were smart enough to do so. That way you were able to grow into adulthood and spew your anti vaccine anecdotal bs.
-
....
(what happened to the post and the link?)
Really???
Lets see if this one disappears...
"major rudy on fluoride"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqlafaGZyr8
Add the sarc tag
Gov. Knows best. We the MAJORITY say you are REQUIRED...
That is about as Anti-Constitutional, Anti Republic as it gets.
The Majority does NOT have the right to override the individual's rights.
"We the Majority think it is best if we use your house and land for ....... It's for the best of all comrade"
If people want to get thier childern injected ,then go right ahead we need to get rid of the stupid ones.
I´d say save the clever ones ;)
They tend not to die, but become (moar) autistic after the vaccinations.
as a staunch anti-liberal, try taking my kid away, moron!
Liberal writes strictly SATIRE, moron.
He points out the lunacy which Liberals use in their thinking. He is not as dry as MDB but he is damned good at demonstrating their bullshit thinking and is quite affective.
He is just as aghast at the bullshit CPS tactics as you or I.
There is a rule of thumb. If it is too out there and off the wall that nobody in their right mind can take it seriously (other than a braindead, zombiefied liberal which does not have a mind at all) THEN IT IS NOT TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY.
Of course you probably thought that Jonathon Swift's, "A Modest Prposal" was an actual suggestion that the Irish actually breed so that they can eat their children.
Tall Tom, thanks for the rule of thumb, but I will say this, there are a bunch of people I see post who ACTUALLY feel that way. It would be common courtesy to post the /s tag. You seem to know this poster a lot better than I, perhaps I will be able to identify the true liberal idiots vs the liberal sarc in the future!
I will refrain from calling you a moron though, as you are trying to help...heh!
<sarc> dumbs it down. Necessary for modern mercans, unfortunately. There's plenty of it on the Hedge, get used to it.
Anyway, it's not sarcasm, it's satire. A higher form of wit, it seems to this poor bastard.
As a staunch realist, I believe liberals are not smart enough to have or raise children therefore should be taken away.
1. The voices shrieking to forcibly vaccinate people are the same voices shrieking to support a woman’s right to choose abortion under Roe v. Wade. If a woman’s body is sacrosanct, if she has the right to choose to deliver a child or not, if she has total authority over her body, how can she not have the right to accept or refuse a vaccination?
What a wonderful strawman argument that is.
If by "strawman argument", you mean "crushing indictment", then, yes.
Not quite sure where "strawman" comes in. But it is a very good argument. It's OK to murder foetuses, it's your choice. But woe betide you should you question the right of the MIC (medical industrial complex) to squeeze every little bit of profit out of you.
Come to think of it, abortion is presumably very profitable for the MIC.
And where the fuck does government come into it?
Duh. One is a public health issue, the other is not.
Abortion is not a public health issue? I can point you at many millions of aborted foetuses who might beg to differ. If they could.
And yet you care so much about a few cases of measles? What sort of asshole are you?
You don't know what a strawman is.
In 2008, the number one prescribed drug in hospitals (over $4 billion in sales) was Lovenox (enoxaparin sodium), a blood thinner given by injection that is derived from pigs' mucosa. This drug is given to prevent the development of deep vein thrombosis in hospital patients who spend much time lying in hospital beds. Trouble was, the Lovenox Sanofi-Aventis marketed in for most of 2008 was poisonous, contaminated with excessive chrondroitin sulfate (OSCS). S-A used pigs from Mainland China to manufacture its low molecular weight blood thinner at its processing plant on Jurong Island off Singapore. The FDA coverd up the deaths of thousands of Americans who had adverse reactions to the contaminated batches of Lovenox. People going into hospitals for knee or hip surgery would die suddenly without explanation after receiving injections of contaminated Lovenox. Americans were treated with less respect by the U.S. government than dogs who died after being fed toxic Chinese pet food. So when people worry about the toxic complications from vaccines, that is normal behavior. Except to the degenerate trolls who push for the continued prescription of poisoned and contaminated vaccines.
Whoa, whoa, hold on a second there. Are you suggesting that pharmaceutical companies are morally degenerate shitbags who have the FDA by the balls??
if you're spending enough time in a hospital bed to need that shit, then youre already dead...
No what he's saying is the chosenites created the fake "FDA".
No, no, it's MUCH worse than that!
Thanks for the information, I would like to know more about the "Lovenox" (what a misnomer) scandal, but there is not much I've been able to find. Is there a credible source of the FDA's cover-up of the deaths caused by the tainted products?
The Hegemon's paid trolls are out in force tonight I see, trying their damnedest to pretend that there are ZH followers who believe in forcing others to inject themselves and their children for the good of the community. They are trying to sway appearances because they believe that appearance drives substance. Which is the same philosophy behind vaccination.
Newsflash trolls. Reality does not need your permission to have its way with you. And the time is getting closer when it's going to have its way with you good and hard. And we are all going to love every minute of it.
But keep banging out your posts to keep your post per minute stats up. Lord knows the pitiful simulacrum of an economy your philosophy has produced can't actually gainfully employ you to do anything useful and we all understand that you have to put bread on the table somehow. Your deal with the devil will earn its comeuppance in due course and lord knows we don't want to be peeking in the oven too much before the cake is done.
So, what exactly do you disagree with ? Don't like facts over government propaganda much do you ?
I believe the only fucking idiot here is sysin3.
And you're another fucking shill.
+1 for the idiot call. Im medical and this person really needs a refresher.
I'm medical, and we know best.
Sure. Just like with thalidomide.
Yeah, and the DES fiasco wasn't too good either. My mother refused it when her dr prescribed assuring her it was safe. I can't tell you how much I am thankful for that. This drug has caused multigenerational problems and no one seems to know about it.
But some just bow to the authority of a white coat
Miffed
Well that settles that then.
I distrust Big PHARMA and look very closely at anything new they come up with. A good example is the HPV vaccine that is recommended for girls to prevent cervical cancer. Cervical cancer is not a threat to women's health as long as they have regular pap smears and get treatment for any infections that don't clear up on their own (90% do, within 2 years). The death rate is insignificant because most women do get screened. The HPV vaccine only targets 2 of 15 strains, and perhaps gives women a false sense of being protected to the point where they stop having regular screening. Also, it has not been demonstrated whether the benefits of being vaccinated outweigh side effects.
So, yeah, I have a problem with that vaccine. But MEASLES have a long history of being deadly AND preventable. Any side effects from vaccines are so small they are greatly outweighed by the benefit of erradicating measles, for the most part. Its sad that susceptible young mothers get sold on bad science, mostly due to their lack of critical thinking skills and scare tactics such as this ZH post. But then, ZH frequently takes the low road. Anybody who takes everything they read on ZH to be true is too lazy to check facts.
"We now have two generations who haven't seen measles," he says. "The mothers were vaccinated. They never saw measles. Their mothers—the grandmothers—barely saw measles themselves. So the grandmother has no influence. The mother is clueless and so the child goes unvaccinated."
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2015/02/150206-measles-vaccine-d...
You are full of shit. Measles doesn't jave a long histpry of being deadly. In the US it had a long history of exposure parties where when one kid got sick everyone had their kids sleepover to get exposed. Get it all over at once and the kids had their immunity. Measles is not deadly when people are well nourished and practice good hygiene. Deaths from measles were almost non-existent in the decade BEFORE the damn virus, which kills dozens annually today, was intorduced.
If you didn't shit your pants whenever the government says boo you wouldn't need your vaccine either.
Check out the graphs on measles...if you dare...
http://www.whale.to/vaccine/ImmunizationGraphs-RO2009.pdf
Awesome the way you digested his points and then dismantled them!
Completely agree, another fucking idiot. If vaccines work (and they do) it is unethical to not get vaccinated. We need another huge flu or small pox outbreak to get people to come back to their senses.
I get vaccines, but i also know the side effects are possible..the list is long and a small # do not do well afterward. so yes one should have the right to refuse a substance injected into your body or your childs, well it is not a right .,.by many here, too bad they really do not understand the risks, this is not a right it is the basis of freedom, take that away, and you are a serf, but then so many so called rights are long gone it is moot. we are serfs debt slaves owned by the corrupt state.
The moment our government proves that it really cares about vaccinating our children, will be the day that same government quits bombing babies on every continent.
Vaccines are all poisons. As a pharmaceutical chemist for 20+ years I have examined the subject in-depth.
OK, don't believe me, but DO some research.
There have been natural declines in many diseases for which the vaccine crowd takes credit. Check this:
http://www.whale.to/vaccine/ImmunizationGraphs-RO2009.pdf
Allopathic medicine is designed to make money, NOT to heal OR prevent disease.
http://www.naturalnews.com/022332_disease_medicine_germs.html
I agree, bring back all these diseases, the place is too crowded anyway.
Wait, am I vaccinated?
If everyone else is vaccinated, why would I need to be?
Because if everyone free rides the system doesn't work,
News flash: the system doesn't work already.
Actually it does work you fucking moron. Disease after disease has been eradicated until morons like you refuse to vaccinate your kid and it reappears.
There has been a paradigm shift in the medical industry since the money changers have taken over. If you don't understand that, then you're the "fucking moron".
Way to bring your anti-semitism into this bullshit debate.
I actually like semites. It's the mafia I don't have any use for.
Hmmm. Americans are easily the most vaccinated people on earth, and yet our overall health is terrible, cancer is running rampant, autism is increasing exponentially, and autoimmune diseases are out of control.
I wonder if those things have anything to do with each other?
See a McDonalds and the amount of prescription pills they take.
But, yes, blame vaccines that have been around for decades that have only served to save millions of lives.
And yet tens of millions are dead from cancer, a disease which has multiplied exponentially in the 20th century. Not to mention the millions who suffer from Autism, a disease virtually unheard of in the US before vaccinations became common.
But hey-- I'm sure that has nothing to do with anything-- right??
Life expectancy more than doubled in the west in the 20th century; cancer is an old age disease. What a conspiracy!
There are no credible studies showing that vaccinations have caused the admittedly higher levels of autism. That could be anything. Poor diet, other environmental factors, etc.
If cancer is an "old age" disease, why are more young people than ever getting it?
You need to quit while you are behind.
No credible studies? Well, I guess it depends how you define "credible". Because there are studies, plenty. But if you don't like the conclusion much, then they must not be credible.
I'd also point out that to the average moron, when one thing follows another in close proximity, then it is reasonable to assume that one led to the other, until it be shown otherwise. With the burden of proof being on showing the otherwise.
Autism didn't exist 80 years ago. It sure as shit does now.
Give it up Bonzai. Fucking guy is a tool. The classic life expectancy is longer argument now gives way to higher incidences of cancer but sadly fails on the higher incidences of kids, 20, 30, and 40 year olds getting it. Cancer is an old age disease.
Find which way the wind is blowing Silver, and kindly fuck off with it.
My cancer developed when I was 29. Care to explain that one, or is 29 the new 79 in our brave new world?
LOL, saved millions of lives for what exactly??? We all are going to die, no matter how many vaccines one is pumped full of Humpty Dumpty.
I say let the fittest survive, and let nature take it's course.
Where is the PROOF that vaccines "save" lives???
http://www.whale.to/vaccine/ImmunizationGraphs-RO2009.pdf
If it works, then you need not be afraid of diseases "reappearing". Period.
If you are afraid of that, it doesn't work. Period.
Silver Bullet is absolutely right. This page is the worst case of mass hysteria and stupidity I have ever seen on ZH.
You are a propaganda spewing shill. I doubt you have any knowledge whatsoever of what you confidently assert. Come on shithead step up to the plate. Give us the annual # of cases of measles (or mumps or rubella or any other common childhood disease) and the annual number of fatalities by year and the vaccination rate. Show us the data which supports your bullshit.
There are some diseases which were deadly and have been eradicated such as smallpox. That was then seen as a justification for getting the government to pay for any vaccination for any disease no matter how much harm it caused.
England and Wales measles mortality rate from 1838 to 1978.
(Record of mortality in England and Wales for 95 years as provided by the Office of National Statistics, published 1997; Report to The Honourable Sir George Cornewall Lewis, Bart, MP, Her Majesty’s Principal Secretary of State for the Home Department, June 30, 1860, pp. a4, 205; Essay on Vaccination by Charles T. Pearce, MD, Member of the Royal College of Surgeons of England; Parliamentary Papers, the 62nd Annual Return of the Registrar General 1899 (1891–1898))
http://www.dissolvingillusions.com/graphs/#2
Sorry, can't figure out how to post pictures. Summary: about 50 deaths per 100k population in mid-19th century. Dramatic decline as 20th century entered. By 1950's death rate close to zero. Vaccine introduced 1968.
Yeah, I know, anti-science.
Explain how my unvaxed child can cause your vaxed child harm if the the vax works? It would be logical that only free riders are at risk of the non vaccinated.
You wouldn't until the vaccination rate in the population drops below about 90%.
+1
Dovetailing with your point, there are some people who can't get certain vaccines or don't have he proper reaction to them. If you add people who outright refuse to get them for no good reason you run the risk of dipping below that (roughly) 90% for most diseases.
And then a bunch of people get the measles at Disney.
+1 to you as well. My oldest son is a cancer survivor from early in his childhood. For various medical reasons he couldn't receive his vaccinations until well after his cancer treatments were concluded- far later than most children get vaccinated. In that interevening time he had to rely on the fact that most other people WERE vaccinated to receive his protection. He has since been vaccinated, of course.
I have no regrets about our decisions in any way.
Yeah, most people only care about themselves, even to selfish extremes.
I have family that refuses to vaccinate (among other things) so I've heard their ridiculous reasons for doing, or not doing, so. They don't get sick, so it "justifies" their bullshit choice...when in reality all they are doing is free riding off everyone else.
I hope your son is doing well. One of my friends has a kid who has been ravaged by cancer who is exposed because of people who refuse to vaccinate it.
Yeah, I got all my cancer vaccinations. I hate people who don't get vaccinated for cancer. They are assholes. Why, if everybody would just get their cancer vaccinations, there wouldn't be any cancer.
Go fuck yourself, dude.
Seriously, you're a fucking a piece of shit.
My friends kid is vulnerable to diseases of yesterday because morons like you (excuse me, FUCKING MORONS) don't get their brainwashed kids vaccinated.
Again, fuck you.
..and there we have it!!! The conclusive "winning" argument for vaccinations!
(See disease rates for vaccinated diseases)
My god...
See disease rates as sanitation, clean water and better hygiene all came online
YES!!! http://www.whale.to/vaccine/ImmunizationGraphs-RO2009.pdf
The vulnerability of your friend's kid doesn't trump my right to refuse to inject something unwanted into my body. Why do you think your friend's kids life is more valuable than mine?
well said and reasoned
Especially the Vaccinated ones.
That 90% figure comes right out of your ass. Kindly return it to its rightful place.
I don't care who is vaccinated, but I hope these know all mothers keep their measle ridden kids away from doctors and hospitals too.
I bet they'll be screaming blue murder for treatment though.
If the doctors and hospitals are vaccinated, what difference does it make? It's about CONTROL. It's always about CONTROL.
It's because the hospitals have people in them who are imunosupressed for various reasons, which makes them more vulnerable to viruses spread by non-vaccinated people. Same at the doctors' offices. Not about the doctors themselves.
But yes, part of it is about control.
I don't understand why the list of vaccinations has grown so long in the past twenty years. I don't get why an newborn needs a Hepatitis B vaccination when that is transmitted via blood or sex, not something that newborn is likely to engage in for a long time. Why not save that vaccination until later, when the immune system is more mature? I get that compliance is higher right then but I also think there is something to putting more time between vaccinations.
You have to get those infants vaccinated immediately, so the pharmaceutical companies can GET PAID.
You don't want them to die before they get all their shots-- imagine all the lost profits!!
I don't disagree with you, Jena, however, I do not belive the medical industry has the "people's"" best intrest at heart.
My veterinarian doesn't do all vaccinations at once.
I don't think Big Pharma or the medical industry as a whole have peoples' best interests at heart either. I used to work in it and I know that there are psychopaths/sociopaths there just as in every other place where money gathers. But I also still have great memories of people who worked hard and did the best they could for people. (I was an RN in a trauma center, also did critical care SICU.)
You know, gsd, the practices of good vets seem to make more sense to me than some of what we do in the medical world. Maybe it's because there isn't any verbal communication to get in the way.