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Ukraine 'Peace' Talks In Tatters: Defiant Putin "Won't Tolerate Unipolar World"; Hollande Proposes "Strong Autonomy" For Rebel Region

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Just as the existing 'truce' in Ukraine has been made a total farce as 1000s of military and civilians have been killed, so any 'hope' that this weekend's "peace efforts" will result in anything but more talk is rapidly diminishing... Germany's Merkel exclaimed honestly that it's "uncertain whether this will be successful," seemingly resigned to the fact as she added, "but it's at least worth making an attempt." French President Hollande admitted that Ukraine's eastern regions likely need "strong autonomy." Ukraine's Poroshenko blustered that he "trusts" Merkel, that the economy is collapsing (more money please), that the country does not need peacekeepers and a lack of arms is fueling conflict (so send us weapons) while pushing for a Russian withdrawal and quick cease-fire.  Finally Vladimir Putin blasted that Russia is unwilling to tolerate a post-Cold War global system dominated by one absolute leader, to which US VP Joe Biden remarked simply "get out of Ukraine." But apart from that, talks are going great...

 

Stocks rallied after hours on Friday on a spurious headline that peace talks were progressing...

 

That appears to be entirely false...

Merkel... not optimistic... (via Bloomberg)

"It’s uncertain whether this will be successful, but in my view and in the view of the French president, it’s at least worth making an attempt,” Merkel says in speech at the Munich Security Conference. “I feel that we at least owe it to those affected in Ukraine.”

 

“Russia needs to show its contribution” in defusing Ukraine crisis, Merkel says.

 

"This conflict can’t be solved militarily," Merkel says

 

Minsk accord must be fulfilled: Merkel

Hollande... does not see a united Ukraine anytime soon (via France24)

French President Francois Hollande called for “quite strong” autonomy for Ukraine’s eastern regions while speaking on France 2 TV. He also revealed part of the joint plan discussed in Moscow on the conflict’s solution. On Saturday, Hollande said that the eastern Ukrainian regions of Donetsk and Lugansk need “rather strong” autonomy from Kiev.

 

“These people have gone to war," Hollande explained "It will be difficult to make them share a common life [with Kiev]."

Ukrainian President Poroshenko appears tro demand more money and weapons...

  • *POROSHENKO: 5,638 PEOPLE KILLED IN UKRAINE CONFLICT SO FAR
  • *POROSHENKO: UKRAINE HAS LOST 20% OF ITS INDUSTRIAL OUTPUT
  • *POROSHENKO: ONLY THE MINSK AGREEMENT CAN STABILIZE UKRAINE
  • *POROSHENKO: UKRAINE'S LACK OF ARMS IS FUELING CONFLICT
  • *POROSHENKO SAYS UKRAINE DOESN'T NEED PEACEKEEPERS NOW
  • *POROSHENKO SAYS PRIORITY IS CEASE-FIRE, RUSSIAN PULLOUT

Russia's Lavrov slammed NATO...

  • *LAVROV TOLD STOLTENBERG NATO'S BUILDUP PROVOKING CONFRONTATION
  • *LAVROV SAYS NATO BUILDUP WORSENS TENSIONS, UNDERMINES SECURITY
  • *LAVROV: NATO BACKING UKRAINE'S CRACKDOWN WON'T FACILITATE PEACE

NATO’s backing for crackdown by Ukrainian govt in southeast doesn’t facilitate peaceful settlement of conflict, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov tells military alliance’s Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg.

 

NATO course to boost its military presence, infrastructure on its eastern flank, “substantial increase” in number of drills near Russia’s border worsen tension, provoke confrontation, undermine “entire system” of Euro-Atlantic security.

Putin added some more strategic spice... (via Bloomberg)

Russian President Vladimir Putin struck a defiant tone a day after talks in Moscow with the leaders of Germany and France failed to achieve a breakthrough in resolving the Ukraine crisis.

 

Russia won’t tolerate the post-Cold War global system dominated by a single leader, Putin said Saturday at a meeting with the Federation of Independent Trade Unions in Sochi.

 

“That type of world order has never been acceptable for Russia,” Putin said. “Maybe someone likes it and wants to live under a pseudo-occupation, but we won’t put up with it.”

To which US VP Joe Biden responded... (via CNN)

Vice President Joe Biden served up some blunt talk on Saturday, telling Russian President Vladimir Putin simply to "get out of Ukraine."

 

...

 

Speaking at the Munich Security Conference in Germany, Biden said the conflict had moved beyond the need for a "reset" with the relationship, instead requiring a "re-assertion" of the "fundamental bedrock principles on which European freedom and stability rest."

 

"We must judge ... any future agreement with Russia by the actions Russia takes on the ground, not by the paper they sign," Biden said. "Given Russia's recent history, we need to judge it by its deeds, not its words. Don't tell us, show us, President Putin. Too many times President Putin has promised peace and delivered tanks, troops, and weapons."

 

...

 

"We will continue providing Ukraine with security assistance, not to encourage war, but to allow Ukraine to defend itself," he said. "Let me be clear: We do not believe that there is a military solution in Ukraine. Let me be equally clear: We do not believe Russia has the right to do what they're doing."

*  *  *

But apart from that, talks are progressing nicely...

  • *POROSHENKO: WILL HAVE AN ANSWER ON CEASEFIRE IN HOURS OR DAYS (or weeks or months or never)

And as Daniel Hannan notes (via CapX.com),

...in a throwback to the Khruschev and Brezhnev eras, the Kremlin is seeking to detach Germany and France from Nato’s more hawkish Anglo-Saxon members. Angela Merkel and François Hollande oppose sending military or logistical support to Ukraine, and Vladimir Putin is now dealing directly with them, pointedly excluding Britain, the United States and Canada.

 

In theory, a peace settlement might be hammered out. While we don’t know the details of the current negotiations, the broad outlines of a deal were visible by the end of last year. Russia would, in effect, buy back the Crimea, possibly for a sum based on the capitalisation of its annual rent of the naval facilities there. The international community would recognise the new frontier – Crimea, after all, was the one part of Ukraine where there really was popular support for an Anschluss with Russia – and Russia, in exchange, would withdraw from the grim industrial towns of the Donets basin. Some form of local autonomy might well be part of the deal – a worthwhile reform in itself in a territory as large as Ukraine.

 

Here, though, is the question. Does Putin really want peace? Is his aim victory – and recognition of the annexation of Crimea would certainly constitute victory of a kind – or is it a continuation of the crisis? The conflict, after all, has sent his approval ratings above 80 per cent. When you are presiding over both poverty and autocracy, you need something else to legitimise your regime, and that something else, for Putin, is the sense of nationalism and unity engendered by a conflicts involving Russian irredenti.

 

...

 

The West never quite knows how to handle Vladimir Putin, and the crisis in Ukraine is, at least in part, a consequence of our prevarication.

 

Read more here...

*  *  *

Perhaps - in the same way - US leadership needs a 'foreign' boogey-man to focus national attention away from what is under the surface a weak and extremely divided economic 'recovery'?

Nineteenth-century German historians had a phrase, Primat der Innenpolitik, meaning that all foreign policy was essentially driven by domestic concerns. One government would pick a fight with another, not because of geopolitical imperatives, but in order to shore up its support at home.

 

Shakespeare has Henry IV give his son some advice from the deathbed: “Be it thy course to busy giddy minds with foreign quarrels”

 

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Sat, 02/07/2015 - 15:05 | 5755992 Pooper Popper
Pooper Popper's picture

obama is a traitor muslim piece of shit!

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 15:09 | 5756009 COSMOS
COSMOS's picture

Nobody wants to be under the Khazar pole.  That is why the western media which they control is so anti-Putin, how dare a gentile say no to the moneychangers and their underlings.  How dare he take the stolen assets they amassed after the collapse of the USSR.

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 15:13 | 5756021 El Oregonian
El Oregonian's picture

The show must go on. Bread and circus!

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 15:20 | 5756052 cossack55
cossack55's picture

Was it also in Henry 1V that the Bard wrote "kill all th lawyers first"?

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 15:32 | 5756088 Pinto Currency
Pinto Currency's picture

 

 

The rigged markets and economies are failing.

NY / London need a conflict as a back story to the failure.

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 15:34 | 5756101 Haus-Targaryen
Haus-Targaryen's picture

This.  They will need a scape-goat for the incoming financial apocalypse.  The Russians will fit the bill well.  

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 15:44 | 5756118 Pinto Currency
Pinto Currency's picture

 

 

Yes.  At its core, reduced to one element, this is falling apart and along with it the entire financial system rig:

http://seekingalpha.com/article/2871836-lbma-data-points-to-gold-and-silver-default-video

http://www.safehaven.com/article/36534/lbma-data-points-to-gold-and-silver-default

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 17:20 | 5756406 Gaius Frakkin' ...
Gaius Frakkin' Baltar's picture

Dear Biden,

Get the fuck out of my country and take all the jackasses who voted for your sorry ass with ya. Take them all to the promised land.

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 17:50 | 5756537 Latina Lover
Latina Lover's picture

Parasites like Biden will never leave us alone because without us, they would starve to death. They have no skills, no talent, nothing positive to offer, only lies, manipulation, deceit and death.

  We don't need them, but they sure as hell need us.

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 18:13 | 5756618 Publicus
Publicus's picture

World War 3, here we come, billions around the world are going to die, all for the elite.

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 19:27 | 5756831 aVileRat
aVileRat's picture

In Summary

- Germany, the same Germany who bitched in 1921 they could not pay back their war loans and got a stay & haircut in 1956 is failing to learn from history, or manage their own stalling growth

- Germany, the same country which signed on, and reiterated their support to defend NATO and EU markets with all facilties walks back on defending the Munich and Budapest accords which they signed to protect and gaurantee all markets which defaulted on their USSR obligations

- ECB and EU in general was willing to give Putin backed rebels all territory which they siezed following the broken ceasefire, effectively doubling their annexation claims since June 2014, and they balked. Which means implicitly Germany has now signed off that the Putin backed rebels have and will keep all territory gained since the November breakout.

 

So what does this mean?

Putin, that lovable sperglord we all love to hate has been pretty much given a free pass to continue onwards into Odessa. Expect a fall of Ukraine sometime soon and the wave of ethinic Ukranians migrating out of Denipers to Poland & Germany. This will be excellent for low-wage job rates.

If Geek and FBPIS will conclude there is no incentive to remain in the US system, I can see Rus trade increasing in everything but name into the 2018 cycle. It would also mean Zbigniew's view that the world must stand for something, namely the self determination of independent peoples will have been lost. Which implies the NATO cause etree of defending all Europe from Russian agression is dead, and expect world markets to adjust to this 'new normal'.

Actually, I'd laugh my ass off if Greece and Turkey adopt to leave NATO and become the first project petitions for BRIC bankq.

 

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 20:02 | 5756939 Volkodav
Volkodav's picture

anything close to an "ethnic" Ukrainian will mostly stay

 

ukrainian nationals...pollacks in large chunk of west and others can go..

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 20:16 | 5756970 Lore
Lore's picture

If you think Brzezinski advocates self-determination for anyone or anything, then you have never cracked ANY of his books. The man is a control freak's control freak, responsible in no small way for America's present trouble.  A dark place in history is reserved for his ilk.

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 20:17 | 5756981 Ayreos
Ayreos's picture

That sounds slightly too optimistic. The US will send weapons to the Ukies. You might recall them doing the same in places like Iraq, Lybia, Syria... after the weapons come the Intel, air support with no-fly zones, until finally, boots on the ground. Vlad won't just sit while that happens.

The potential for escalation is enormous, and as early as late spring. All the while Kerry, Nuland and Biden will be screaming about Putin, the devil and his dastardly invasion of Ukraine.

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 19:06 | 5756790 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Biden:  "Get out of Ukraine."  What a tool.  Bet he never read one page of Russian history.  Bet he doesn't know Kiev was once the capital city of Russia.  Bet he doesn't realize that fucking with Russia has been the doom of numerous egotistical twits like him.

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 20:13 | 5756971 Parrotile
Parrotile's picture

Try asking friends / colleagues / neighbours if they've even heard of Kievan Rus, let alone the significance / location of this city.

So far in Australia (where "everyone" is so very concerned about Ancestry (e.g. Ancestry.com.au ) and "Historical significance"), I've had a zero (0) success rate in even being able to guess the location (hint - Kievan - KIEV??), let alone historical significance!

(Not that anyone here knows the location of Ukraine anyhow!)

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 22:50 | 5757343 COSMOS
COSMOS's picture

Good point Ebworthen, which brings up the point, will the East Ukrainians take Kiev down the line and send the rest of the Poles and Khazars packing for Galicia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galicia_%28Eastern_Europe%29

 

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 20:25 | 5756996 Whoa Dammit
Whoa Dammit's picture

Biden said" Don't tell us, show us President Putin."

I somehow don't think Biden will like very much what Putin will show him. Be careful what you wish for Mr. Biden.

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 20:25 | 5756998 Ayreos
Ayreos's picture

He's not a tool, he's a career politician, which i guess is not that different. In any case, following the NWO/Hawks agenda as loudly and obnoxiously as possible is just his job. His opinion doesn't matter, just like Obama's. They're scum for being puppets, but they're just there to be the face of economically-tied and all too visible (for those who follow the money) puppetmasters. Meanwhile I'm here waiting for "Occupy Northrop Grumman" or the like, but if Vietnam wasn't enough for that, nothing will be.

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 15:45 | 5756126 El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture

"a lack of arms is fueling conflict"

 

And war is peace, freedom is slavery, yadda yadda yadda.  WHAT THE FUCK, COUNT CHOCULA?  Sending people in to kill and subjugate other people is what is fueling the fucking conflict you fucking marionette. 

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 16:01 | 5756172 unrulian
unrulian's picture

that stuck out for me too...there's probably 90% of people that believe that non-sense 

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 20:22 | 5756990 Parrotile
Parrotile's picture

I am certain Porky-Shenko is being told EXACTLY what to say, and when to say it.

He is no different in this respect to any other "Western Political Leader" - Obama, Hollande, Merkel, Cameron.

They are all just the equivalent of "Film Stars" - put there to do a job and project the "right image". Their "job" is to present the image carefully crafted well behind the scenes.

Never forget, although Gone With The Wind" was immortalised by Vivien Leigh (as Scarlett O'Hara), without Margaret Mitchell, there would have been no book to base the film on. Today's flavour of Western "Politics" is really no different, is it.

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 17:28 | 5756461 rejected
rejected's picture

With no one left,,, who needs a scapegoat?

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 15:34 | 5756097 smlbizman
Sun, 02/08/2015 - 13:33 | 5758599 Volkodav
Volkodav's picture

Sixth paragraph she gave away who she works for...."we"

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 15:38 | 5756109 Amish Hacker
Amish Hacker's picture

Nope. Henry VI, Part 2

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 15:57 | 5756158 oudinot
oudinot's picture

I believe its from Henry the IV part II, and the exact quote is, "First, we must kill all the lawyers."

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 19:57 | 5756932 Parrotile
Parrotile's picture

The reality behind this oft-quoted snippet (Part 2, Act 4), is not quite what it seems. The line was spoken by one "Dick the Butcher" (a member of the Jack Cade gang), and actually relates to the intention to remove the Lawyers, in order to smooth the path to a planned revolution. The Lawyers were the obstacle to the planned tyranny, seen as the last bastion of independent thinking.

So, sometimes "The Lawyers" can be really helpful . . . . :-)

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 15:30 | 5756084 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

A big segment of the Uke army has got itself trapped in another 'cauldron', and

is about to get pulverised.

Putin needs to do nothing, and Choco king will fall.

WWIII by May ?

The US percieves it has a temp. advantage/small window of opportunity, and will press it judging

by the proaganda intensity.Doubling down on stupid is Obozo's mo.

Interesting times.

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 16:21 | 5756236 Stumpy4516
Stumpy4516's picture

The last time the EUke forces had this advantage Putin forced them to stop, accept a cease fire agreement and to allow the WUke forces to safely leave their confinement.  The leader of the EUke forces called this a betrayal by Putin.

Now the EUke forces have had to refight the same WUke forces again and in some locations they have regained the advantage.  But it has cost EUke lives to get back to this point. 

You have to question, why did Putin stop the EUke forces from wiping out important forces of the WUke?  It served Putin's purpose but in what way?  Continuous fighting to slow down the advance to Russia's border coupled with the refusal to engage directly in any way that might cause direct contact with NATO or US/Israel financed mercs? 

These talks are most likely a political stunt to pretend to be seeking peace, and then stepping up the attacks and giving the WUke better weapons.  If Putin does not give the EUke forces everything they need to wipe out the trapped forces quickly (as soon as the talks in Moscow end) then it reinforces the possibility Putin is using the EUke forces as a pawn to be bleed dry.

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 17:37 | 5756472 flapdoodle
flapdoodle's picture

Are you being sarcastic or are you just a moron?

When the ceasefire was signed the "last time" as you put it the DNR/LNR Separatists had just closed the Ilovaske Cauldron, captured thousands of Uke troops and material, and were marching on Mariupol.

I take it from your previous posts you are merely a Uke/Hasbara troll, at least, I hope so for your sake as the alternative is that you are an imbecile.

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 18:48 | 5756739 Stumpy4516
Stumpy4516's picture

Being blind to the facts due to a position does no good.  What I posted is correct, but of course you do not want to have them posted.

If you take the time you should still be able to find the articles where the EUke forces leader stated this was a betayal by Putin.  He did try to soften that statement by saying Putin was surrounded by traitors and need to open his eyes (or words to that effect).

Surrounded troops were in fact given free passage to safety.  Now, how has that worked out for the EUke troops?  It has cost them needlessly wasted lives to regain the advantage.

If Putin does not authorize, supply and assist in the total destruction of the currently surrounded WUke troops as soon as the "show piece" Moscow talks are concluded then it is certain that Putin is using the EUke blood freely with little consideration.  At that point I would hate to be EUke, having the WUke out to kill you and your family and your only friend only using you with little concern about your death.

And at that point it will only make it clear how weak Putin is or his lack of backbone.  The US/Israel take out countries, destroy Russia's "allies", bomb and put troops on the ground with ridiculas justifications - and a friendly country next to Russia is destroyed while Putin is afraid to act.  48 hrs of Russia artillery, missiles and bombing would totally destroy the ability of WUke military.  Of course that would involve the death of some US/Iraeli persons, something Putin appears incredibly afraid of having happen.

Iraq1, Iraq2, Libya, Syria, Serbia, others and now EUke.  Russia/Putin sells arms but otherwise is impotent.

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 19:11 | 5756802 JohninMK
JohninMK's picture

Your analysis is pretty good Stumpy, the problem is that it is said here that Putin is playing a different game to the US and is well ahead on strategy. If that is correct one has to wonder just what he is up to. It is almost as if he is trying to go the longest route to the end.

To keep it going for as long as possible to allow Kiev to collapse financially?

The problem I have is that in doing so he is allowing the continued destruction of Donbas infrastructure and civilian deaths with the UA shelling of towns. If Russian counter battery radar is all it is cracked up to be why are the UA artillery batteries still in existence?

You really have to wonder what the Russian strategy is.

 

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 20:16 | 5756949 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

Buying time for territory is their strategy.

What they need the time for is the question ?

Any ideas John in Milton Keynes ?

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 21:52 | 5757202 WhyWait
WhyWait's picture

No, Putin's buying time for NATO and the Empire of the Dollar to implode, to thwart their plans to destroy and plunder Russia and achieve world hegemony, while building alliances around de-dollarization and the vision of a multipolar world.  And he's doing good at it, playing a weak hand like the pro that he is!

In case you've forgotten, you might want to  read this prophetic analysis from a Putin ally again; here's the ZH summary but click on the link and read the original:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-06-18/putin-advisor-proposes-anti-dol...

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 19:53 | 5756915 Lea
Lea's picture

Stumpy4516
"If Putin does not authorize, supply and assist in the total destruction of the currently surrounded WUke troops as soon as the "show piece" Moscow talks are concluded then it is certain that Putin is using the EUke blood freely with little consideration."

You have forgotten a little something. Putin or the DPR/LPR CANNOT authorize right now the destruction fo the Debaltsevo cauldron, since there are still about 6000 civilians (children, women, elderly people) trapped there. First, they need to be safely evacuated. Of course, the WUke are trying to hinder the evacuation.
As soon as these people are taken to safety, it will be another story.

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 20:35 | 5757011 Stumpy4516
Stumpy4516's picture

Are you saying the EUke artillery is located in the middle of the residential neighborhoods?  Perhaps they are this time, I do not know, but last time they were not.  Bombing need not be carpet bombing like the US but the use of laser guided missiles and jets.   The vast country side of EUke seems to be controlled more by the WUke's and they move troops and supplies.  Ariel photos of some of those batteries and/or missile sites show them as being outside of towns but out of the distance of EUke artillery.  Easily taken out by bombing.  

And please explain why the military apparatus in WUke would not be targeted?  All those military installations should be targeted by Putin.  Supply depots, bases, air fields etc..   Any WUke troops on the roads of EUke would be easy prey for Russian air strikes.   (Currently reinforcements from WUke travel unimpeded into EUke. 

Correct me if I am wrong on this but reports indicate situations where the EUke troops hold the town(s) and the WUke are located outside the town and strike with artillery or rockets.  Why allow this?  There are also cases where planes droped phosphorus on EUKe held towns, that alone is a war crime that justifies the destruction of all air bases.

The weakness and lack of resolve over the years haunts Russia I expect.  Even Greece must see Russia as not having the ability to be a strong military deterent.

Claim this as masterful chess game playing by Putin if you wish but what good is that to Russia's allies when they are already (or will be) destroyed before the masterful chess moves occur?

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 22:11 | 5757240 2handband
2handband's picture

Putin is going to lose. Why? Because he won't push hard enough to risk a nuclear war. I think he knows that the west would rather rule the graveyard than accept a multi-polar world. It's not really weakness; he just knows that if he goes too far the canned sunshine is going to get tossed around. He may be a rotten SOB, but he's not stupid. Trouble is, the side that IS willing to risk a nuclear exchange wins by default.

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 23:35 | 5757464 angel_of_joy
angel_of_joy's picture

I have bad news for you. Russia is in much better position to survive a nuclear war than US or Western Europe.

Sun, 02/08/2015 - 02:07 | 5757695 Curiously_Crazy
Curiously_Crazy's picture

 "since there are still about 6000 civilians (children, women, elderly people) trapped there."

So men don't count as civillians then?

Not disagreeing with what you are saying, but we really ought to stop with the nonsense emotive apeals using the "women and children" crap. Some civilians are NOT "more equal than others" no matter how many times it's spun.

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 18:21 | 5756634 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

Russia is going to attack Norway and Saudi Arabia and seize their oil in March?

Looks like someone has been dropping some very very bad LSD...

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 17:50 | 5756542 kowalli
kowalli's picture

It's not an uke army, there are 1500+ nato troops in "cauldron"...

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 17:52 | 5756550 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

Source ?

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 19:43 | 5756885 Lea
Lea's picture

Winston Churchill, there are rumors indeed about a sizeable amount on Nato troops trapped in the Debaltsevo cauldron. There would be about 7000 troops locked up inside there, over 1000 of which are rumored to be pure unadulterated Nato.

Even Putin alluded to Nato troops in Ukraine - though he didn't specifically name Debaltsevo - and his intelligence services are veeeery good.

If the Debaltsevo thingy turns out to be true, it will be testimony to the stupendous stupidity of Nato. I mean, you can have mercenaries you can swear are paid by Ukraine or volunteer foreigners, but unless you are very, very dumb, for Jeez sake, not Nato guys on Nato payroll.

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 20:19 | 5756987 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

If true, WWIII is on sooner than I thought.

Would not put it past Uncle Scam to nuke the pocket,to destroy the evidence,and

pin the blame on Russia.

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 23:43 | 5757486 Stumpy4516
Stumpy4516's picture

Source of the "rumors"?

The US/MSM have plenty of propoganda saying all sorts of things.  Russia official channels have been pretty good at not making official BS claims.  But I have not seen Russia officially claim NATO troops are fighting.

Yes NATO is in WUke.  Do they not do military exercises there?  Polish troops under direction of Poland fighing, maybe.  NATO, not yet.  And if there were NATO troops then Putin should send columns in to capture them. 

If NATO does move troops to the front line I would expect overpowering air support and the EUke anti air to be attacked in force.  I would also expect Putin to stop all arms supplies (supply lines would be cut by NATO anyway) and then Putin to try to gain some level of sympathy on the international stage for the massacare of the EUke's.  (For all the good that does the EUke's)

Sun, 02/08/2015 - 01:21 | 5757625 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Of those 1,000 - how many are Poles or other Baltic/Eastern European. 

I am praying the Ukrainain conscripts surrender or shoot their officers first then surrender.  Poor kids, poor civilians and the NAF. 

Anyone know if this cauldron will take out most of the Ukie equipment and main forces?  What is stopping the NAF from going to Kiev except a long trip-supply lines etc?

Sun, 02/08/2015 - 15:27 | 5759060 Al Tinfoil
Al Tinfoil's picture

The Vineyard of the Saker has been carrying reports from east Ukraine separatist territory.  Among their reports are statements that Nato uniforms were on bodies of soldiers found under the rubble of the Donetsk Airport, stockpiles of Nato small arms weapons were found in territory taken from west Ukrainian forces, and remains of artillery shells (155mm howitzer, as I recall) were shown a couple of days ago with Nato markings on the shell casings.  These shells were alleged to have been fired at targets in territory held by Novorussian forces, from artillery in areas held by Kiev's armed forces.  

As for the truth of things reported during wars........  Who knows.

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 15:19 | 5756044 Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

Zionism feasted on the rotten USSR when it collapsed. Not satisifed with becoming billionaires, the Zionists now seek more. No amount satisfies the Zionists, they always ask for more. The goal has always been for the tribe to hold 100% and the world zero. If people doubt what I saw, I offer them the chance to read some history, and then check back in after that. Christian Zionism and Jewish Zionsim are the powers that rule Washington DC. They rule it in the interests of one group and all others are not in consideration. Or a person can believe the Western Media, and just sit back and watch Zionist rulers consume our entire world.

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 15:35 | 5756095 Miss Expectations
Miss Expectations's picture

Or a person can believe the Western Media, and just sit back and watch Zionist rulers consume our entire world...

as in

watching Allison Williams have her ass licked on a truly creepy zionist tv show, then interview Brian about how he's ok with this.

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 15:58 | 5756156 Chupacabra-322
Chupacabra-322's picture

"Becoming the first credentialed, well-known media insider to step forward and state publicly that he was secretly a “propagandist,” an editor of a major German daily has said that he personally planted stories for the CIA.

Saying he believes a medical condition gives him only a few years to live, and that he is filled with remorse, Dr. Udo Ulfkotte, the editor of Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung, one of Germany’s largest newspapers, said in an interview that he accepted news stories written and given to him by the CIA and published them under his own name. Ulfkotte said the aim of much of the deception was to drive nations toward war."

-Global Research.

http://www.infowars.com/editor-of-major-german-newspaper-says-he-planted...

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 15:58 | 5756162 dsty
dsty's picture

Bull crappy

 

Peristroika is only a facade to lure the west into complacency

no we gonna get it

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 16:36 | 5756274 pendragon
pendragon's picture

the benchmark in anti semitic paranoia

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 16:50 | 5756326 Volkodav
Volkodav's picture

what is your definition of semite?

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 17:05 | 5756370 COSMOS
COSMOS's picture

His definition is anyone that threatens their gravy train of fiat print control, or plundering of resources.

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 19:47 | 5756905 Volkodav
Volkodav's picture

I never get an answer when ask that question..

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 22:26 | 5757285 dsty
dsty's picture

oh, those guys are gone

but a new crop is growing

kind of like weeds

Sun, 02/08/2015 - 03:18 | 5757748 pendragon
pendragon's picture

jewish.

Sun, 02/08/2015 - 13:15 | 5758549 Volkodav
Volkodav's picture

What is your definition of Jewish then?

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 18:00 | 5756577 HowdyDoody
HowdyDoody's picture

I have aunt who is a bit of a goer. She is known as Aunty She Might.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jT3_UCm1A5I&t=26

 

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 19:27 | 5756854 goldhedge
goldhedge's picture

You either like em or you don't.  Oh wait thats Marmite.

Sun, 02/08/2015 - 19:31 | 5759912 Jaka98
Jaka98's picture

Zionism ???

repulsive contribution!

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 15:29 | 5756079 Fun Facts
Fun Facts's picture

Nuland and the rest of the Zio PNAC Revolutionaries will stop at nothing to get their "total war", because it will be used to obfuscate a bankster ponzi collapse.

Meanwhile, all the drooling zombies will be [already are] convinced by the ZWO media that it's all Russia's fault.

By way of deception...that's the name of the game today donkeys.

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 15:39 | 5756114 DavidC
DavidC's picture

Fun Facts,
Spot on, I was just about to post "Thank you Victoria Nuland". Those people are disgusting.

DavidC

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 16:25 | 5756245 Fun Facts
Fun Facts's picture

Of course Nuland is married to Kagan [not even born in America] who was one of the original New Pearl Harbor architects as enumerated on page 51 of the PNAC bible.

"Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event — like a new Pearl Harbor" - Kagan

This is all part of the same thing, and the PNAC revolutionaries manufactured the consent for it all from the dummies with their New Pearl Harbor.

Needless to say, if there was any justice left in the justice system, they would all have been tried and hung from ropes for treason and crimes against humanity.

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 17:42 | 5756509 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

"We're going home and we're taking our toys with us!"

 

There...that wasn't so hard.

Sun, 02/08/2015 - 04:55 | 5757830 Dave
Dave's picture

Hey Cosmos.

They just don't make Jews like Jesus anymore.

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 15:32 | 5756090 tired1
tired1's picture

I'm afraid that folks will, in the near future, look back on Obummer's terms in office as 'the good old days.'

Things certainly seem to be unravelling more quickly.

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 16:36 | 5756273 August
August's picture

Back when cannibalism was, officially, still illegal.

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 16:54 | 5756340 Iwanttoknow
Iwanttoknow's picture

Make up your mind.Is obama atraitor muslim shit or barry Soetoto/His mother was jewish.

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 17:16 | 5756408 Gadfly
Gadfly's picture

He's an errand boy, sent by grocery clerks, to collect a bill.

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 17:55 | 5756562 Wile-E-Coyote
Wile-E-Coyote's picture

War it is then............................... fucking bastards!!

 

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 19:33 | 5756868 kill switch
kill switch's picture

Victoria Nuland should be hanging upside down in the town of feces DC and have passerby's use bamboo saws to take a small chunk out of her neck slowly....Chinese torture that fucking cunt.. Or maybe Nashville....

 

 

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 15:15 | 5756016 Son of Captain Nemo
Son of Captain Nemo's picture

Vlad I got only one thing to say. Tear Mr. Biden and the rest of his paid Zionist whores a new asshole! 

Your biggest mistake was that you didn't spare the lives of all those innocent people in Eastern Ukraine thinking Germany and France would capitualte and come around!...  But they won't because they are owned and operated by the same management that fucked them over 75 years ago!...

Whatever happens at this point "happens" And it will never be your fault no matter what your decision(s) happens to be!!!

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 16:00 | 5756170 oudinot
oudinot's picture

Vlad:  "Build that wall back Mr. Obama!"

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 16:35 | 5756270 pendragon
pendragon's picture

the benchmark in putin fluffing

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 17:41 | 5756506 adeptish
adeptish's picture

How would you know???

Kitty ...

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 17:29 | 5756465 noben
noben's picture

I strongly suspect that what & who is holding back Putin is not the West, but its Fifth Column and China itself.

China will have Russia's "back" alright... as long as it's profitable for their Tong oligarchs. The US knows this, and are playing the Divide & Conquer game perfectly, to make the Chinese hold back Russia.

Playing hardball with the West, would deny the Chinese oligarchs the opportunity to buy up stuff in the West, especially fancy RE in NYC.

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 18:15 | 5756625 TungstenBars
TungstenBars's picture

If Washington foolishly keeps pushing those button there won't even be a New York in a few years..

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 19:11 | 5756803 Volkodav
Volkodav's picture

chine know they are next

I recall read somewhere that Russia will provide security for new canal China building

that will eclipse Panama canal

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 19:19 | 5756829 Not Too Important
Not Too Important's picture

Open question:

Is Kiev using US-supplied DU munitions to destroy Eastern Ukraine? DU will render all those areas under bombardment uninhabitable for millions of years. It would also prove genocide, as that is the only result of DU bombardment:

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=depleted%20uranium%20birth%20defects...

 

Sun, 02/08/2015 - 05:03 | 5757835 Dave
Dave's picture

Things keep progressing as they are a new canal won't be needed. The old one either.

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 19:39 | 5756882 kill switch
kill switch's picture

I love the LLC concept....

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 22:54 | 5757353 RichardParker
RichardParker's picture

noben:

"Playing hardball with the West, would deny the Chinese oligarchs the opportunity to buy up stuff in the West, especially fancy RE in Detroit."

There, fixed it for you...

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 15:14 | 5756026 Smiley
Smiley's picture

Putin is standing up for his country and its national interests; it sure is funny and sad that so many in the Western media are trying to portray him as a bad person for this.

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 15:23 | 5756061 Carpenter1
Carpenter1's picture

Ok, thot for a moment this wasn't going well, but I see the bankers and their cronies have this under control.

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 16:32 | 5756262 new game
new game's picture

vlad is the monkey wrench in the sytem to liberate the world from thier national past times...

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 16:55 | 5756344 ChiangMai
ChiangMai's picture

 

"Putin is standing up for his country and its national interests"

The Saker — and others — have been writing for some time that Russia is standing up for much more than that.

Excerpts below are from:

Listening to Lavrov in Munich

7 February

If you look at the Saint George Ribbon on the left side of the page you will see that above I wrote "Russia stands for freedom"…On a much deeper level, Russia stands for truth both as a logical category and a moral principle. The western 'elites' stand for the exact opposite of that, they are the embodiment of un-truth in the logical and moral sense…

Dishonesty, intellectual and moral, has been elevated to an ontological principle and foundation of the modern western political thought and culture, it is what these societies do best and all they can do. Not only are "right and wrong" gone in a moral sense, they are now also gone in a logical sense...

...fundamentally this is an existential struggle for both sides and only one will be left standing… 

MORE (both dated today):

Talks in Moscow - a two-part analysis

Alexander Mercouris

[VIDEO - 43:39] Lavrov Munich speech

 

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 15:14 | 5756029 Flybyknight
Flybyknight's picture

"The West doesn't know how to handleVladimir Putin"  That is because Biden and friends think they are masters of the universe and what they want they should get. Go listen to some straight talking from Lavrov, the Russian foreign minister, in his speech to the European security conference (available on RT) and compare the honest straight talking with the hypercritical bullshit and weasel words coming from Biden and others. If this situation degenerates into all out war or even nuclear war then the blame can be laid squarely on Washington and NATO who have inflamed things at every oportunity 

 

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 16:00 | 5756171 Captain Willard
Captain Willard's picture

Yes. Lavrov and Putin have made it clear in recent speeches that they welcome the old-style bilateral "linkage" diplomacy of the late Soviet era. They seem prepared to be reasonable if we stop the expansion of NATO and the isolation of Russia.

Yet the outline for peace is already visible. Hollande spoke of "autonomy" for the Russian-speakers in east Ukraine. The Germans have floated their readiness to accept no NATO for Ukraine. The Russians will probably accept this.

Of course, this requires the US to give up its project of installing a puppet government in Ukraine and trying to expand NATO into Ukraine. Putin and Lavrov have hinted broadly that the expansion of NATO into Ukraine was a violation of the tacit agreement in place since German re-unification.

And what is Ukraine anyway? Are Soviet-era borders still relevant? Or is local self-determination still relevant to NATO and US foreign policy?

We approved of self-determination in Yugoslavia, but now it's a terrible idea in Ukraine.

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 17:15 | 5756404 kowalli
kowalli's picture

You first destroy Yugoslavia and all bridges and plants and then you told people of Yugoslavia to break up.

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 17:53 | 5756553 Torgo
Torgo's picture

"We approved of self-determination in Yugoslavia, but now it's a terrible idea in Ukraine."

 

Yes. The hypocrisy is revolting. Now it's all about "territorial integrity" as the highest value, after the Kosovo precedent in 1999 destroyed the legitimacy of national borders and enshrined the Responsibility to Protect doctrine so beloved by Samantha Powers and her fellow bloodthirsty humanitarians.

 

The fools in Washington have absolutely no logical consistency nor moral authority and no one should risk a hair on his head for degenerates like them. And yes, that means I will merely support the troops to the extent the law requires but they can kiss my ass after that. I never asked them to cast their pearls before swine like Obama, McCain, and Poroshenko.

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 19:44 | 5756897 kill switch
kill switch's picture

The fools in Washington have absolutely no logical consistency nor moral authority and no one should risk a hair on his head for degenerates like them

 

Fucking DITTO!!!!!!!! Nice formulation..

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 15:17 | 5756034 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

Vice President Joe Biden served up some blunt talk on Saturday, telling Russian President Vladimir Putin simply to "get out of Ukraine."

Instead of ripping on Williams (piece of shit), the corporate media might check the veracity of Biden parroting this f*ckin' lie.

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 15:34 | 5756100 Fun Facts
Fun Facts's picture

Zio Biden hasn't been sober in two decades. His liver probably has tumors the size of Brian Williams brain.

Joe Biden says I am a zionist - YouTube
www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0ZIJdN05QE

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 16:49 | 5756320 Volkodav
Volkodav's picture

so he alcoholic and told truth once?

Sun, 02/08/2015 - 05:06 | 5757840 Dave
Dave's picture

Not much of a tumor.

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 16:17 | 5756220 skepsis101
skepsis101's picture

Joe Blow Biden, for whom i must embarassedly admit I actually voted for once, is just talking his shit.  He's out to secure a SINecure for his worthless son.  On the backs of serfs and weak nations ye shall build empires, yea, so sayeth the zionist lord.  For chrissake, how naive I was.

The world will be a healthier place once its been ridden of such vermin!

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 16:49 | 5756322 August
August's picture

>>>Joe Blow Biden... He's out to secure a SINecure for his worthless son.

A little cocaine use, mostly on weekends, is surely no reason to terminate this man's exemplary naval career.

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 17:17 | 5756410 rejected
rejected's picture

Right you are... Daddy never served and little Hunter was kicked out of the Navy. The only way they could make a living is by leaching off of productive citizens.

Sun, 02/08/2015 - 05:12 | 5757844 Dave
Dave's picture

I had to down arrow you for voting for that clown even though you admitted it was a mistake. Don't take it personally.

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 15:20 | 5756036 JustObserving
JustObserving's picture
As usual, Biden lies about Russian troops rolling through Ukraine:

 

Meeting in Moscow fails to produce agreement as US plots escalation in Ukraine

 

By Niles Williamson 
7 February 2015

 

German Chancellor Angela Merkel and French President François Hollande met for approximately five hours with Russian President Vladimir Putin in Moscow on Friday in an attempt to hash out what has been described as a last-ditch effort to resolve the ongoing crisis in Ukraine.

The talks concluded Friday evening without any agreement, and the two European leaders left Moscow late at night without making a press statement. There were pledges of further discussions this weekend on a ceasefire between Ukrainian armed forces and pro-Russian separatists in the country’s eastern Donbass region.

Prior to Friday’s meeting Merkel told reporters that the European leaders were, “convinced there will be no military solution to the conflict.” She also sought to lower expectations for the meeting’s possible outcome, saying, “We know, however, that it remains completely open whether we will be able to reach a cease-fire through these talks.”

“Russia cannot be allowed to redraw the map of Europe,” Biden told reporters. In fact, it is the United States and the European powers that have utilized the coup in Ukraine as the basis for a vast militarization of all of Eastern Europe, including the doubling of NATO combat forces announced on Thursday. NATO will station six command and control units in Poland, Romania, Bulgaria and the Baltic states of Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia.

Biden later cast aspersions on the trip by Merkel and Hollande to Moscow, “President Putin continues to call for new peace plans as his troops roll through the Ukrainian countryside, and he absolutely ignores every agreement his country has signed in the past.”

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2015/02/07/ukra-f07.html

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 15:26 | 5756073 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

At a point in this bar room argument Russia may decide that US/NATO wants a fight and, seeing no other choice, might deliver the 'forearm shiver' to get it going.  The dreaded WW III is a distinct possibilty with this insane Western 'Big Lie' policy.

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 15:41 | 5756085 JustObserving
JustObserving's picture

US foreign led by warmongering Neocons has always sought conflict and war.  US spent more than $5 billion destabilizing Ukraine and now is proposing to send arms to Ukraine.  That is as good as a declaration of war:

 

Europe on the brink of war

 

7 February 2015

 

Reports that Washington is considering arming the Western-backed regime in Kiev with weapons to attack pro-Russian separatists in eastern Ukraine have placed the risk of world war at the center of political life in Europe.

Earlier this week, French President François Hollande warned of the risk of “total war” before jetting off to Moscow for talks with German Chancellor Angela Merkel and Russian President Vladimir Putin. These comments were echoed Friday by former Swedish Prime Minister Carl Bildt.

“Unfortunately, war with Russia is conceivable,” Bildt told the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung in an interview at the Munich Security Conference. “We are definitely living through one of the more dangerous historical phases,” Bildt said, “especially if you view the situation from a European perspective. There is fighting to the east, there is fighting to the south. The flames are coming very close to us. What makes the situation so explosive is that there is also great uncertainty about global power relations.”

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2015/02/07/pers-f07.html

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 16:22 | 5756238 FJF
FJF's picture

The only liar is russia!!!!!!!!!!!

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 16:36 | 5756277 scrappy
scrappy's picture

They ALL lie bud.

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 17:06 | 5756375 rejected
rejected's picture

The u.s and it's puppets are acting so stupidly no lying is necessary.

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 21:21 | 5756785 Volkodav
Volkodav's picture

are you polish or what?

 

(that might explain cos inbred butthurt genetics)

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 19:54 | 5756924 kill switch
kill switch's picture

The only liar is russia!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

Thank you so much for that incredible,,,,,, comprehensive,,,,,,, analysis,,, as my geopolitical view has now changed.... Russia lied...I feel free..

P.S. Fucktard.

Washington DC is Liars paradise..

 

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 21:12 | 5757091 noben
noben's picture

I reiterate my prior position :  Russia will NOT attack preemptively, because China will not back them in that situation. 

Perhaps it is more important to expose the Anglo-American agenda, and to thus persuade Europe  (France, Germany) to grow up and act independently, rather than remain under their master's thumb.

Everybody with half a brain knows that Europe's future is as part of the Silkroad 2 and the Eurasian market,  and that such an organic re-alignment is the worst nightmare of said AA Alliance.  All else is BS and noise.

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 15:46 | 5756128 Tinky
Tinky's picture

Putin ignoring his country's agreements? That's fucking rich, given that the primary cause of this whole problem is the U.S. having completely ignored its pledge crucial to Gorbachev.

What a sick joke.

 

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 16:20 | 5756227 FJF
FJF's picture

Tinky........and how about the agreement to protect ukraine in exchange for ukraine giving up it's  nuclear weapons?????????

Time for obama to give ukraine all the military assistance it needs.......congress allowed approved it.....so what are you waiting for, obama.

do the right thing, obama, and approve weapons for ukraine. 

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 18:39 | 5756707 Latina Lover
Latina Lover's picture

Great idea! Amerika should fight against Russia to the last Ukrainian!  /sarc off.

I suggest you do the right thing FJF, and put you money where your mouth is and go fight against Russia by volunteering for Debalstvo....but you would rather hide behind a keyboard, you fucking coward. 

 

 

 

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 19:02 | 5756775 Volkodav
Volkodav's picture

Russia has protected Ukrainians

put up with the criminals steal gas meant for citizens and much other...

what you promote is more poor sons forced to death by Kiev illegal goverment

the less of all Ukrainian left alive, the easier their crimes will be.

Sorry you do not know how it works

War is a Racket  Maj Gen Smedley D Butler

 

 

 

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 19:40 | 5756884 Latina Lover
Latina Lover's picture

Exactly.  The greatest tragedy is a civil war, with brother killing brother while the USSA laughs.

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 21:19 | 5757112 Volkodav
Volkodav's picture

Only now the carpetbaggers arrive quicker

 

Sun, 02/08/2015 - 04:34 | 5757813 Gavrikon
Gavrikon's picture

Do the right thing, retard.  Put a shotgun barrel into your mouth and pull the fucking trigger!

Sun, 02/08/2015 - 13:08 | 5758524 Volkodav
Volkodav's picture

No agreement stands with illegal govt of Kiev reds takeover

Elected legal Ukraine Yanuk admn. the agreement was active.

Rules don't just apply one side

even though some want that way

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 17:47 | 5756529 Berspankme
Berspankme's picture

Like how the US observes the agreement James Baker made with Gorby that Nato would not move one inch closer to Russia? Biden as usual has no shame, lying cunt

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 19:50 | 5756914 uno
uno's picture

nothing to do with Ukraine, but please watch this video, poor childern talking about abuse and even children being killed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtncDnCRPYo

many more of this brother sister

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtncDnCRPYo

 

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 15:17 | 5756038 Bemused Observer
Bemused Observer's picture

"Get out of Ukraine", Biden demands...

You know, not for nothing, Mr. Biden, but if Russian troops started showing up in Acapulco and Putin told YOU to "Get out of Mexico" you'd be foaming at the mouth...

Shut up! Just shut the FUCK up, you opportunity-squandering bunch of Russophobes! These people should have become our FRIENDS and our ALLIES...the Fates did all but chew it and swallow it for you in the late 90's! All you had to DO was NOT FUCK IT UP!

But you DID. Somehow, someway, you managed to take the opportunity of a lifetime, a generation, and blow it instead of extending a friendly hand to a people who would have TAKEN it!

But instead, you hand them 'missiles in Poland', and NATO right up their asses, and you scratch your little wooden heads at Putin...Fuck you! Fuck ALL of you and your stupidity and short-sightedness!

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 15:38 | 5756108 davey
davey's picture

Well said bemused,I couldn't have said it better..it's nice to see that some people have a handle on common sence.

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 18:41 | 5756716 Latina Lover
Latina Lover's picture

cHey Biden, why doesn't the USSA get out of Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya,  Cuba.......etc Etc.

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 16:15 | 5756188 FJF
FJF's picture

Bemused observer.......

I have never sworn on any post before. But the stupidity of your comment calls for an exception. 

You are a fucking jack ass with no morals. You support another fucking jack ass that wants to take over the world - putin. 

If you  don't  believe  that, get out in the real world and see what every country under russian rule (formerly ussr rule) has experienced - economic catastrophe.  No wonder, countries prefer being alligned to the west then to russia.  The usa is not perfect but it sure beats being forcibly tied to russia.

If you like the russian system so much, and if you don't already live there, then you should move there. After a month, you’ll be begging to come back to the west.....you fucking jack ass.

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 16:39 | 5756282 scrappy
scrappy's picture

How about detante'?

My family likes non nuclear air.

Yourself?

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 18:42 | 5756720 Latina Lover
Latina Lover's picture

You are a Coward FJF, a keyboard warrior who would shit himself if he faced real battle.  I just hope your Ukie employer fires you and send you to the Russian Front, LOL.

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 16:46 | 5756309 Volkodav
Volkodav's picture

ignorant post

Do not conflate Soviet USSR with Russian Federation

Soviet was never a Russian construct

There is no outside country under Russian rule.

Much less economic catastrophe...that is the west's ongoing project

better worry about your own country

 

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 17:54 | 5756556 FJF
FJF's picture

Volkodav. ...a few comments regarding your post.

Putin (Russia's leader) is attempting to re-create the USSR....with satelite states et all. That is how Russia and the USSR are related.

You say that Russia doesn't control any outside countries. One example of where this is happening is Georgia. And if Putin has his way, ukraine as well. Hopefully, this will never happen and Putin will learn to live peacefully with his neighbors  (probably just wishful thinking.......can you imagine Putin living peacefully with anyone).

just curious, and i ask this because of your last comment..........if you do not mind saying.....in which country do you live in?

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 18:43 | 5756723 Latina Lover
Latina Lover's picture

Volkodav, don't let this Ukie loser troll you.  Let him go instead and fight like a real man in Debalstvo.

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 18:49 | 5756745 Volkodav
Volkodav's picture

in vain I try reach the hopeless

sorrie me

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 18:48 | 5756741 Volkodav
Volkodav's picture

Putin controls Georgia?

Is that you Michael Saakasvilli?

 

two countries, one which is becoming more free

while the other is rapidly less free and I wind down business to seasonal

future near full time is Samara, Adler seasonal, but Crimea is interesting

 

 

 

 

 

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 16:58 | 5756356 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

Somewhere, there's six pack of dicks you need to crack open and consume. STFU.

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 17:44 | 5756518 Berspankme
Berspankme's picture

Instead of consume, I believe you meant resume

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 16:59 | 5756357 rejected
rejected's picture

Boy, did you drink the kool aid... Want to show us some proof of what you say?

 

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 17:12 | 5756394 ChiangMai
ChiangMai's picture

 

 

"If you like the russian system so much, and if you don't already live there, then you should move there."

That was special — I haven't read the moronic "USA, love it or leave it" in years.

"You are a fucking jack ass with no morals… you fucking jack ass."

Perhaps, after a brain transplant and years of rehabilitation, in your next comment you can move up one step from the very bottom here:

Graham's Hierarchy of Disagreement

 

 

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 17:37 | 5756485 FJF
FJF's picture

ChiangMai.....

on this site, regarding this topic, most people like you don't have a brain.....because, if you did, you would remember that putin called the breakup of the ussr to be the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the 20th century. Since making these comments, he has sent his army to invade other countries. 

Only, someone so one sided as you can't join the dots and realize what putin is up to. The only other explanation is that you are very naive. so, into which category do you fall into?

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 18:56 | 5756759 Latina Lover
Latina Lover's picture

Yeah, tell us what Putin is up to, how he manipulated the US to overthrow Yanukovich and replace with with a puppet, so that Putin could steal Crimea back, and dreams about invading Latvia, because Russia needs more 'living space',. LOL..

Fucking Neocon chickenhawk shill, coward and liar pushing others to fight because you lack the guts.

 

Sun, 02/08/2015 - 05:27 | 5757858 Dave
Dave's picture

Just curious, what countries did Putin order invaded?

Sun, 02/08/2015 - 18:29 | 5759654 Bemused Observer
Bemused Observer's picture

Ok FJF, let's see if this makes it past that waving Gadsen flag of yours...

We DID fuck up the whole post-collapse handling of our relationship with Russia, and all the other countries left behind in the aftermath. To ignore one's own mistakes in favor of mindless flag-waving for one's failed policies isn't patriotic. It's stupid.

People like you call me a "Putin-lover"...umm, no. It's not ME who elevates the man to demi-god status-wants to 'take over the world', really? You watched a lot of "Pinky and the Brain" as a child, didn't you?

No, to me he is no different from any of the other world leaders. He just happens to be right in THIS particular matter. And I refuse to stand behind mindless 'patriotism' to avoid admitting that my country screwed up.

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 17:12 | 5756396 August
August's picture

There's plenty good money to be made

Supplyin' the MIC with the tools of the trade.

Be the first one on your block

To have your boy come home in a box.

 - after C. J. McDonald

 

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 15:17 | 5756042 Jam
Jam's picture

Can you blame anybody for not wanting the Tribe to run the show? Take a look at the skid the USA has been on the last few decades, and it is accelerating.

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 18:01 | 5756578 Wile-E-Coyote
Wile-E-Coyote's picture

Maybe Hitler had a point!

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 15:19 | 5756047 the phantom
the phantom's picture

Here's the conversation (and reason) Hollande was even there:

Hollande: Hello Mr. Putin, great to see you again.  I look forward to-

Putin: (interrupting) Deliver the ships immediately or pay us the billions of Euro fine under the contract.

Hollande:  But Mr. Putin-

Putin: Get out, I'm talking with Merkel.

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 17:49 | 5756540 Analyse2
Analyse2's picture

@the phantom

childish post

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 19:20 | 5756832 the phantom
the phantom's picture

Are you French or German?  A frenchman would might be offended in that his gov't does not honor their contracts.  Germans are just humorless.

Actually, don't answer that... I don't care.

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 15:20 | 5756048 chunga
chunga's picture

Joe Biden is such a fucking jerk.

Am I the only one having trouble with ZH being so slow. It's driving me to drink.

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 15:44 | 5756123 Volkodav
Volkodav's picture

nyet...it has been acting badly here also

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 16:46 | 5756222 MarsInScorpio
MarsInScorpio's picture

CHUNGA:

It appears ZH is running numerous, poorly written scripts that eventually freeze your browser up entirely.

In addition, ZH is opening up TCP addresses to everyone and their brother attempting to sell the world to its readers, while these companies also rape your computer for all the data they can mine.

This TCP opening floods bandwidth, and slows your browser down to a crawl.

ZH is as guilty as any other crony for the way it loots its readers' computers for its own financial gain.

To verify the TCP connections, do this: 1) (Windows 7 and 8 users - don't know about Apple and Linux, but I'm sure there is a way with them as well) Move your mouse over the Task Bar that normally resides at the bottom of the desktop; 2) Right click the mouse, and then left click on Task Manager; 3) Look at the tabs at the top of the windows, and left click on the tab entitled Performance; 4) Go to the bottom of that windows, and left click on Open Resource Monitor; 5) Look along the top of that window, and left click on the tab entitled Network; A window entitle TCP should be open - if not - click on the downward pointing arrow and it will open; 6) Scroll down the list of addresses and see for yourself how many list the name of your browser - also look at the chart on the left hand side of the window entitled TCP Connections - you'll probably find you have about 100 or more open; 7) Go back to your browser while keeping the Resources Monitor window open, and close the tabs for ZH; 8) Over the next 60 - 90 seconds watch all the TCP Connection drop off the chart, and the list - that is how many ZH has opened up on your computer to other computers on the Internet; 9) if you want - you can go to those addresses and see for yourself how many of them are data mining operations and other sites you'd never knowingly go to because of all the data you'd be sharing with them that you don't want them to know.

To get back up to speed, shut down your browser, wait 2 minutes for the TCP connections to close, then re-open it. Of course, over time, you'll be slow agan - there is nothing you can do to solve this permanently with ZH.

Of course, it's all legal for ZH because they told you they were doing this in both the terms of service, and the privacy policy. This is how you pay to play on ZH.

(I wonder if I'll be banned for that revelation . . . I hope not. Finding that out about this site is pretty elementary computer tracking.)
-30-

Sat, 02/07/2015 - 16:46 | 5756308 scrappy
scrappy's picture

Try lightbeam for firefox.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!