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Greek FinMin Warns "Euro Will Collapse If Greece Exits", Says Italy Is Next
The time for the final all-in bet has arrived.
As we explained yesterday, when we wrote that "Greece Gambles On "Catastrophic Armageddon" For Europe, Warns It "Only Has Weeks Of Cash Left"", and as confirmed further by today's fire and brimstone speech by Greek PM Tsipras, in which he not only did not concede one millimeter to Europe but raised the stakes even higher, by promising among other things to raise the minimum wage and to halt foreclosures, Greece is now betting everything that Europe will not allow it to exit, hoping that "this time is not different", and the existential terror that would be heaped on the Eurozone as forecast in 2012 by the likes of Citi's Buiter and IIF's Charles Dallara, will still take place, and Europe will concede that spending a few more billion on Greece's bridge program is worth to avoid what could potentially spiral into an out of control collapse.
To be sure, that is precisely what Yanis Vaourfakis implied today when he said that "if Greece is forced out of the euro zone, other countries will inevitably follow and the currency bloc will collapse, Greek Finance Minister Yanis Varoufakis said on Sunday, in comments which drew a rebuke from Italy."
The comments emerged from an interview we commented on earlier with Italian state television network RAI, Varoufakis said Greece's debt problems must be solved as part of a rejection of austerity policies for the euro zone as a whole. He called for a massive "new deal" investment program funded by the European Investment Bank.
From Reuters:
"The euro is fragile, it's like building a castle of cards, if you take out the Greek card the others will collapse." Varoufakis said according to an Italian transcript of the interview released by RAI ahead of broadcast.
The euro zone faces a risk of fragmentation and "de-construction" unless it faces up to the fact that Greece, and not only Greece, is unable to pay back its debt under the current terms, Varoufakis said.
"I would warn anyone who is considering strategically amputating Greece from Europe because this is very dangerous," he said. "Who will be next after us? Portugal? What will happen when Italy discovers it is impossible to remain inside the straitjacket of austerity?"
So now that Greece is all in, the time for even more truth has emerged, and if Greece is finally being honest, it may as well spook Italy and drag it down - or rather up - with it.
"Italian officials, I can't tell you from which big institution, approached me to tell me they backed us but they can't tell the truth because Italy also risks bankruptcy and they are afraid of the reaction from Germany," he said.
"Let's face it, Italy's debt situation is unsustainable," he added, a comment that drew a sharp response from Italian Economy Minister Pier Carlo Padoan, who said in a tweet that Italy's debt was "solid and sustainable."
Varoufakis's remarks were "out of place", Padoan said, adding that Italy was working for a European solution to Greece's problems, which requires "mutual trust".
Italy's public debt is the largest in the euro zone after Greece's and Italian bond yields surged in 2011 at the height of the euro zone crisis. They have since fallen steeply and have so far come under little pressure from the renewed tensions in Greece.
And while the Greek "scorched earth" approach would have no doubt succeeded had it taken place three, two or even one year ago, when Europe still had some faint resemblance of an actual market, the difference this time is that by dint of its recently launched QE, which revealed that Germany's staunch "anti money printing " stance was nothing but melodramatic theater all along, it is the ECB that is in charge of every asset class in Europe: from the EUR, to the German Bund, to the Italian BTPs, to the DAX to, well, everything, and neither fundamentals nor non-central bank players matter any more.
Which is why Greece may have waited just three weeks to long with its final gambit, as Europe is confident that the ECB's interventions can offset the loss of faith in an already crashing Eurozone (if only for a short period of time, of course). Because the alternative, ceding to Greece, means that all other European peripheral states will demand the same treatment.
Which brings us back to Greece, for whom the moment has finally arrived: the moment which was so eloquently described by a Chuck Palahniuk character when he said that "it is only after we have lost everything, that we are free to do anything."
"We" in this case being Greece. The only question is whether the freedom from its final loss has arrived just a few weeks too late...
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nice
....Will not be known as the "WW #3, Black Swan" event, but as the "Hamburger, Pepsi and Souvlaki on a bun" event.
If Greece isn't already printing it's own currency, then they should all shut the fuck up. Same as it ever was.
Is this good for American stocks?
Futures unchanged...It's all Bullshit!!!
Varoufakis is correct... Europe will blink. The EU will suspend the debt and interest payments and act on Greenspans advice to finally complete European political integration.
Bankers uber alles.
Don't think so Zero. Mutti has fire walled the German banks. She no longer cares.
The worst possible outcome is a slow cascade of exits, with lots of bitching, whining, and gnashing of teeth,
so I expect that's what we will get.
It would be great if it could happen but I really can't envision a slow cascade of exits.
It would be like people slowly moving to the exits in a burning building. The euro was never designed to be taken apart.
If we can get that on youtube, we'll make a fortune. Would be better if we had some cats in it.
I think that's your department;)
I'm completely out of my nine lives and even MacGyver couldn't defuse the upcoming derivatives bomb.
Nine lives?
I'm trying to get by on kibbles and bits.
The fact that there are even negotiations tells us that Greece elected the wrong guy. Nothing will change for the better, it will get worse for the Greek people. Same as Obummer...
described by a Chuck Palahniuk character when he said that "it is only after we have lost everything, that we are free to do anything."
"Freedoms just another word
for nothing left to lose."
Got Drachmas, bitchez?
“How did you go bankrupt?"
"Two ways. Gradually, then suddenly.” -- Ernest Hemingway, The Sun Also Rises
The time is at hand...
I agree with Self-enslavement. The guy, knows it, is saying "The first mark-down is tyhe cheapest...".
But the Troika is not "knowledgeable" to stop the G-exit (Grande Exit of PIIGS-F) so making un-intelligent decision. Hence...
Greece is going to exit the Euro and nothing else is going to happen. Portugal, Ireland, Italy, Spain, France are going to stay where they are, the ECB has their backs and Greece is going to be a terrifying example for the remaining PIIGS to comply.
That's my bet.
When the first one goes, the Euro (or perhaps even the EU) will turn into a game of Musical Chairs. Whoever gets left behind gets the unpleasent monetary mess in their lap.
It will be hard to rebuild the national finances and gather faith in a new national currency, but at least they are in control of their own fate.
My bet is on Germany as the no. 2 nation to leave the Euro if Greece leaves.
Hook up your airbags folks, it's going to be a bumpy ride.
Nation buildiing, Greek style.
hey
who pissed in the baklava ..
Just as the Federal Reserve Bank recapitalized European Banks after the 2008 debacle, (and when asked by Congress where the funds went Bernanke told Congress that he would not tell them...remember?) ...
Yellen is not going to let this happen...
That is right. The US Taxpayer is going to be footing the bill for the Greek Debts and their WELFARE PROGRAMS.
You can downarrow this all that you want...but deep down you know it is true.
It sucks. But IT will not allow the collapse.
In IT's shoes would you, knowing that all of us actually want to kill the IT?
No. THis is not the Black Swan that you are looking for.
I'm afraid you are right Tom. Similar to the Fed secretly bailing out the collapse of Mexican currency in the early 1990's b/c so many merikan banks were holding the bag of they did not get bailed out.
AIG was bailed out to save GS...same thing.
It's all about preventing counterparty loss.
if the counterparty has corporate offices on Manhattan...yes.
Mathematically it is not possible to pay off any amount of interest on a loan. Loans are a scam, a lie if you will. The entire worlds governments are based on lies.
Re: "[Varoufakis] called for a massive New Deal investment program funded by the European Investment Bank." <-- MORE debt to cover OLD debt?! Screw THAT.
I'm waiting for the UK to fragment. Would do my heart good to see The City take some long overdue lumps, karmic blowback for many, many years of doling out misery and suffering.
Many have paid off loans, including myself. An opportunity for hubris and self-undoing. definitely. But how is it
"mathemathically impossible"?
Although we're on the same page of the Loathesome Index for the appeal and deanges of both loans and governments- I don't think you're on track to unravel any mysteries here. Proof of your "loan" declaration please, and ideally, some realistic and practical solutions beyond ropes and lamp posts.
We don't need more doctors to tell us we're terminally ill, we desperately need visonary healers with solutions offering indivudually-desired futures.
I would say it is incredibly possible, and it all involves inflation. Less real shit is needed to take care of the shitty paper loans...
Soulman
But how is it "mathemathically impossible"?
Under the corrent fraudulent banking model, loans are made out of thin air (you are not borrowing someone else's deposits). The receipient spends the principal amount of the loan and in doing so the amount of freshly printed currency adds to the currency already in circulation and increases it by that same amount. This part of the process is inflationary. However, when the loan is repaid, the amount repaid is the original principal plus the interest but the interest was never printed. The amount of currency in circulation is the sum total of all of the principals of all of the loans. There is no interest in circulation. When the loan is repaid the amount by which the quantity of currency in circulation reduces is the pricipal plust the interest. To repay the interest on any loan the principal of someone else's loan must be used. This is highly deflationary.
For the quantity of currency to remain constant the requisite number of new loans must be made add ing their principal amounts to the pot. mathematically this formula is exponential. It is, by definition, a Ponzi scheme.
If all outstanding loans were paid off there would be zero currency in circulaiton and all of the interest would still be outstanding.
This is why it is mathematically impossible.
"If all outstanding loans were paid off there would be zero currency in circulaiton and all of the interest would still be outstanding.
This is why it is mathematically impossible. "
THIS is the truth of the matter.
At the point of debt saturation there are only two ways out:
A. general broad based debt monetization -basically a suspension of the rules defining the debt-fiat currency system.
B. default/debt forgiveness -and systemic deflation.
BOTH results are suspensions of contractural agreement.
The problem with the present regime of loigarchy and captured institutions of regulation/government is that only certain classes of debt are being forgiven or monetized and others are being relentlessly pursued. This fact exposes the very essence of a two tiered/oligarchical system of looting and opression and exploitation. If moneization or debt forbearance/forgiveness is to be undertaken it must be undertaken with some degree of general uniformity throughout the system from individual to nation-state in order to maintain politicaln and social stabilities and cohesion.
IF the debts of the rich are being monetized the debts of the poor must be monetized too -or the poor will eventually repudiate the impositions of a crooked/false socilal paradym, rise up -and slaughter the rich in a destruction of the unjust tiered system of exploitation.
IT IS THAT SIMPLE.
Jubilee was not developed and undertaken to salvage the lives of the peasants/poor people, it was developed and undertaken to salvage the lives of the kings and nobility.
Go take a basic class on finance? Loan repayment absolutely is possible, it depends upon:
The interest rate, the future earning prospects, certainly the real size of the debt burden too.
In essence a loan is taking a chunk of future income up front today in order to invest/consume more. This is taken at the expense of future prospective earnings.
It is absolutely 100% possible to repay loans. It just isn't 100% possible to repay the tremendous amounts of debt which has been accumulated over the last half century. One way or another, the world has to deleverage. This is also possible if:
- Economic growth sees an enormous rate increase (highly unlikely in the near term.)
- The unit in which the majority of the debt is denominated in should decrease in nominal value. See: increased money supply.
- The repayments are stretched out over more time. See: lower interest rates. Currently being attempted.
- There is debt forgiveness. See: orderly, or disorderly default. (Highly plausible, though getting to that point will not be pleasant, according to the historical record.)
The notion that no debt can ever be repaid is both ill-informed, and laughable.
Repaying with cheaper dollars seems to be the preferred model, currently since as you say, there's isn't much growth. Another reeason why ultimately hard assets [that are not presently overvalued such as PMs] will rise substantially after we get over the initial deflationary event.
Re: "The notion that no debt can ever be repaid is both ill-informed, and laughable."
It is not possible for ALL debts to be repaid, since only the principal amount is created by loans. The currency to pay the interest must be borrowed, at interest.
Understanding this may require some thinking on your part.
Those who default lose the value of their labor to bankers who created the loaned currency at no cost. This is one way the issuers of a currency extract wealth from the users of the currency. Many other methods of theft exist: Front running intentional Inflation and Deflation, Deception, Lies, Bribery, Insider Trading, Blackmail, and much much more.
The system is a scam.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFDe5kUUyT0
One more reason Greece can not repay their debt is previous Administrations looted the Treasury. Have you noticed the politically connected rich folks get richer, while the commoners get poorer?
The Greeks can not re-pay what was stolen. This debt must be forgiven.
It's not just Greece. These issues are global.
Bro,
"Go take a basic class on finance? Loan repayment absolutely is possible"
You have mis-quoted Self-Enslavement. He did not say that. Furthermore, your statement is not true in the aggregate. It is only true of a relatively small number of individual loans. The quantity of currency in circulation consists of only the principal amounts of each loan. There is no interest in circulation. Therefore only a limited number of loans (P+I) can be paid off before the quantity of currency reduces to zero. Said another way, if the principal of all loans were paid back there would be no currency in circulation and yet all of the interest would still be outstanding.
"It is absolutely 100% possible to repay loans. It just isn't 100% possible to repay the tremendous amounts of debt"
Those two statements are contradictory and mutually exclusive.
"Economic growth sees an enormous rate increase (highly unlikely in the near term.)"
Here's Dr Albert Bartlett to explain why this is not possible:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5iFESMAU58
"The unit in which the majority of the debt is denominated in should decrease in nominal value. See: increased money supply."
First of all you are conflating purchasing power of the currency unit with the nominal (ie unrelated to purchasing power) sum of the debt. If your income does not increase in nominal terms the debt is no easier to pay off regardless of how much the purchasing power of the said currency unit decreases. Secondly you are advocating even more theft by stealing the purchasing power of those who have been prudent enough to save in order to bail out the lenders. Thirdly, to increase the money supply you have to issue more debt. That's just how the model works. Failing that you have to monetize existing toxic debt (QE). None of these are solutions.
"The notion that no debt can ever be repaid is both ill-informed, and laughable."
Whilst self-enslavement's question was not phrased quite as accurately as he might, the statement that "interest cannot be paid" in aggregate is a true statement. Why do you feel it necessary to deride someone who disagrees with you especially when the argument you provide to defend your position is flawed?
What you're saying is technically incorrect. It is possible even in a money invented debt induced Central Banking world, to pay off principle and interest. But all this is "up to a point"...with that point depending on many variables. The US pays off short term debt all the time. It's the net debt and interest that evnetually becomes the death blow as it swells
Anti,
What I said was not "technically incorrect" at all despite your protestations. There is no interest in circulation. The currency in circulation (M2) consists of all of the principals of all of the loans made. The government does not pay off its loans. It takes out new loans on a regular basis the sum of which equates to the principal plus interest of the old loans which are retired. If you believe this constitutes "paying off the debt" then you need to have a closer look at the maths.
If I have a loan of, say, 1000 currency units at an interest rate of 10% per annum then I added 1000 currency units to M2 when I took out the loan. When I come to pay it back I need to pay back 100 currency units more than I borrowed which means reducing M2 by 1100 currency units when I pay back the loan, if I pat it off. In your example, if, at the exact maturity date of the first loan, I take out a second loan then the principal amount now needs to be 1100 currency units because I don't have any spare liquidity to pay the first loan off. At the same interest rate as before I will be due to repay 1100 currency units plus 110 currency units back. ie 1210 currency units. And so it goes on. Ad infinitum. Now plot that on a graph. Can you see the problem? That curve is known as an exponential curve. Here's Dr Albert Bartlett to explain to you why that model won't work:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5iFESMAU58
Man overboard cap'n!
Steady as she goes helmsman, steady as she goes ;-)
Why does the name Barry Soetoro leap to mind?
He couldn't do it any better if he were trying ;-)
That nuke going off in Donetsk may change things up.
Probably not a nuke. My guess would be an ammo dump.
It's hard to hide those things, and easy to dispose of them.
Yea I am not sure what blew up there but that was a pretty big explosion:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYwbUCkVsBA
Aaaaha ha ha ha!! Rotflmao !
1. If Greece leaves, the € will strengthen
2. The € is a flawed construct and Greece is only speeding its demise by being a member.
3. They've promised a great turnaround to the already decimated Greek people and these are shots of desperation and hubris.
4. Resorting to blackmail because they don't have anything else.
Dear citizens of all nations: Never ever let your politicians promise you the world while running deficits. The end is never pretty.
A free glass with every fill up!
1) No, it will crater eventually, Spain or Portugal first, then Italy, finally France and done.
2) Yes. Its a debt ponzi, Greece is only stating the obvious while still trying to get...a loan from its richer "neighbors". Ideologically or fiscally, I don't know how that works together but it is Greece afterall...lol.
3) Politicians make promises they never intend to keep.
4) Yes.
Just to clarify and be perfectly clear:
1. I am not in any way making fun of the Greek people or their plight
2. I am sick and tired of politicians being elected promising us how great things will be and ........
3. People everywhere have to realize they have to actually and truly hold their politicians accountable (no more bullshit)
4. I am poking fun at the new government because their tactics, so far, have been amazingly predictable
5. What Italy will or will not do has nothing to do with current state of affairs in Greece (this culture started in the 80s with that sellout A. Pap and was amazingly destructive)
6. The only thing the new government has said that is 100% true is that it will take years to rebuild Greece (and I'm not certain they can, but they should try their absolute best anyway)
7. I wish them luck with the MONUMENTAL task of rebuilding the country
8. The first step to correcting anything is to realize the root of the problem. This is called "rock bottom" Straighten out the moral compass of the country and it will do well whether you use Drachmas, Lira, Euros or tulips.
9. Shrink the size of government, stop being such an unbearable burden. Instead encourage foreign and domestic entrepreneurs/businesses/investments.
10. Stop looking back. What happened, happened. Learn from the past but look forward.
11. All the best! ( we all need it, no matter where we live)
US banks engineer Greece into the EU, knowing it's a time bomb.
"Fuck the EU!"
Obama comes out in defense of Greece.
Greek Finmin talking very tough, as if he has funding wrapped up.
US objective= Full spectrum dominance.
2 + 2=4
US behind this operation to crash EU.
A crashed EU is a compliant EU, evermore dependent. Mutti und Ollande und Sarcosy know that. So which is it, to look east or to look west. Poor dumb bastards are walking a knife-edge. Whatever happens now, I don't envy poor pooroshenko.
Nonsense, The US is attempting to find a solution to the Ponzi by targeting another backward economy so the EU and Bankers can increase their debt with their peoples savings and resources as collateral----UKRAINE !
...And it keeps on goin'... Until it doesn't.
Precisely.
I agree! The Euro will collapse even if Greece doesn't exist. Fiat currencies are not immortal. They all have the same fate. Every single one of them. Get out of funny money and into real money. Silver is at crazy low prices right. You should advise your firends and family to do so as well. A good way to get someone interested in silver is giving them a candle with a silver coin prize: https://www.etsy.com/shop/ScentSavers?ref=hdr_shop_menu
When they see that their silver coin is worth 12-20 times its face value, they will start to see that dollar doesn't hold its value. They will learn that silver is real money because it does. I remember my grandpa saying things like 'I remember when a gallon of gas cost two dimes!" Well it still does...just not the zinc dimes that are circulating today.
We don't call them zinc dimes around here. We turn them on the side and describe what we see.....a shit sandwich.
Stawks futures down oil up gold up uh oh here we go
Everything is good for american stocks.
Greece just pulled out the trump card... from the bottom of the house of cards.
If he doesn't already have a few Spetsnaz platoons guarding him, he better get some, "toot sweet."
greeks borrowed other peoples money, spent it, managed to make their whole nation corrupt, and they admit it..........and finance guys will be fleecing them every step they take no matter what direction they go in.....tough spot !
Dr. V is half-Spartan and half-Vulcan.
A very formidable combination.
We might also discuss Sun-Tzu later.
$US 300B is one heck of a salvo to kickoff the hot currency war.
Wow !
Spartan/Vulcan captures my impression perfectly.
This ain't gonna be pretty. But it should be good for those paying attention.
I wonder if 300B going poof come Feb 16 will make a sound? something audible. Like Star Wars. "as if 300 billions bits of electrons suddenly cried out in terror, and were suddenly silenced."
Greece to EU: Paying back is a bitch.
I made a $100 bet years ago that Italy would exit first and I've gotta say that while there is still a chance Greece might make me a loser I'm thinking what remain calm wrote:
Merkel will fold. they will do a deal. This is all posturing. Just watch
and agree with the sentiment above regarding printing their own currency.
And then throw in shit like this from Lexi:
"Tsipras told lawmakers in Athens the government is seeking the bridge agreement to provide government funding until June, when he hopes to have a more lasting arrangement with international creditors." from bloomberg news.
That would be politico speech for "we're gonna stay with the euro eventhough we say we're gonna leave".
Robert Wenzel suspects the banksters have some good dirt on Lexi. My suspicion is that these guys are just operators who ran the smartest campaign a la Barry Sotero's Hitlerian Masterpeice in 2008 and sold their hype and change tagline to a bunch of dumbfuck Greek citizens who, if everyone remembers, were the foolish mutherfckers that allowed the mess to occur in the first place by thinking they could create some sort of utopian la la land without the benefit of the worlds' reserve currency or a MIC lerge enough to back it up. (That would be us, "Muricka folks for anyone who lost the train of thought there)
Italy. After the 63rd republic since WWII (or god knows whatever effing number republic they are on) government takes over.
But this is a bet I wouldn't mind losing. Just don't think Lexi and Yani are gonna do it.
lmao - I bet they wished they kept those Drachma's "just in case" it didn't work out.
these are politicians. sometimes one comes along and defies the profile.
with a socialist way left platform i think this slimmy fuck has got a whole shitload of zhers fooled.
a deal will emerge that will keep this shit train rolling. they can print the shit out of thin air. no skin off anybodies ass. moar money to greece, mark my words. no greexit, taking bets???
Merkel will fold. they will do a deal. This is all posturing. Just watch
Quite the pickle Brussels is in. Either they let Greece bail and grenade the EU or they print billions and unintentionally invite all the other bankrupt countries to come running to the table expecting their problems to be papered over as well. I'm betting on the latter, so I expect a little more can kicking...
Don't forget the "Egypt" option.
You obviously do not know the germans. Germans do notbluff, they are terrible actors, and they are very stupid in their own way. That is very very rigid naturally.
I know I was born in a country with shares a border with Germany.
Look at Schauble face, typical "Kartofull-salad" eater. No joking, not bluffing, confuses rigidity with courage and intelligence.
See WW2. The Germans don't do retreats. They do festungs. Fortresses that they build up and defend to the death. Hitler would look at lines on a map and if what he believed was his got a little smaller, he'd throw a shit fit.
Krauts don't surrender "billions" of precious things, even if it's just numbers on a screen
They don't retreat or admit they made a mistake
Lastly, their pride is such that they will not look at any proposal put forth by the Greeks, even if it solved everyone's problems, because it came from those lowly feta eaters that should be following orders rather than giving them.
This will not end well
Even apparent exceptions like Operation (ahem) Alberich. But even those subtle minds were an endangered species after 1942, and today I think your caricature is perhaps more true than ever
I disagree.
Von Mansteins fluid defence in 1943 after the death of Sixth Army, when facing six soviet armies plus Operational Group Popov.
Also dealing at the same time with hitlers stupidity and ever-fleeing italian 8th Army.
A masterpiece.
Go read Von Mansteins 'Lost Victories'. He puts all the blame on Hitler's map delusion. All the fluid stuff that he pulled off was in defiance of Hitler's orders and caused him to be relieved of his duties. He was the exception, not the rule.
I call bullshit.
The Germans were the best counterattackers in WW2. They problem they had is that they were very poor at retreating.
They'll pull back if they see a better position to attack. The problem here is that it doesn't exist. They know how to surrender.
Tell that to Christoph Waltz
Yeh, right.
German rigidly stated that there'd be no money printing and a trillion dollars a year later, we have EU money printing.
Humans can't be trusted with paper money, even the precise Krauts.
Merkel will collapse. Already priced in.
If I am rite its the excuse they need greece will be blamed for the collapse putin steps in saves greece then the mother of all wars start next week. Pressure is so thick you can feel it in the air 3 minutes till midnight where are your children asks the global elite hide your young girls if Bill Clinton is around
Germany promotes dropping off the debtors, guaranteed.
Germany (and old EAST Germany) has direct pipeline to Russia natty via NordStream, built many years ago.
France is selling Mistral class ships to Russia for the Black Sea and Crimea !
France was semi-pro-Russian through the Cold War.
Germany, France and Russia have been closer before this.
Q. Why did Hollande and Merkel meet with Putin without scribe in private ?
A. They are working their own exit strategy, with Russia involved. Both France and Germany were independent countries before...and they can offload their own Euro debts too...just like Greece.
You got it Zero. Germans pushed Swiss to de-peg few weeks back when ECB announced printing, and after Germans lost battle to defend no EU QE. Pieces are coming, together Greece is just the start, Germany will let them walk. Turkey works with Russia and Greece on pipeline, and Turkey is now with Russia and BRICS.
Putin wins with Germany and Hollande on Ukraine as well, as they will not support US weapons to Ukraine. Looks like US getting more isolated each week.
hope you are correct because ussa has become a lone rabid wolf. they are all wolves.
get your tail back down and get to work and don't fuck my bitchez or you will pay with a a hellva bitch bite.
russia is in pivotal position to come out the winner, courtesy of utterly terrible ussa positions of moar violence to control the uncontrolable.
it seems some humans understand war and the horrific outcome. germany and russia emerge stronger. first the gold then alignment with oil source...
Here's the deal that will 'save face' for Greece & Germany & keep the EuroZone going (til Italy, Portugal, Spain & others ask for the same deal)
Some long term loan at a very low interest rate - i.e. 50 years @ 0.01%
Good patch for 1-3 years - deal with it later, just like all the other kick-the-can-down-the-road deals.
Phew! Saved, until tomorrow, next week, next year.
Ding ,Ding ,Ding
Lets Get Ready To Rumble!
There will be no hamburger or souvlaki left.
It's just Pepsi on a bun from here on in...
"It's just Pepsi on a bun....."
I wish I was that creative, ZerOhead.
10pts :)
"lol mutual trust"
I imagine those with a EMZ hardon will keep saying cute little catch phrases as the house burns around them.
Keep it up oh shitheads, ye! You are next.
Note to self:
NEVER play poker with a Greek.
Never lend money to a Greek,and I have Greek Cypriot in laws,nieces and nephews.
Im Greek and I agree with Winston, never lend a Greek money.
right on ... lend money to anyone else ... got it ... lol
A Greek will ask his family for money first. If his family is not willing to lend him the money he will then ask you.
The correct question to ask yourself at this point is "Why isn't your family giving you the money and you're asking me, a xeno, for money." The alarm bells should start ringing at this point.
Who loves ya, baby!
"Nought from the Greeks towards me hath sped well.
So now I find that ancient proverb true,
Foes' gifts are no gifts: profit bring they none"
bitchez!
You can't run a 100:1 (and growing) leveraged ponzi with participants calling your bluff. No, just like political fascism, you HAVE to believe it. You HAVE to understand why you need TPTB. That is why there is no plan B, because there was never meant to be any escape from slavery.
Voufakis (sic) knows how this all works . . .
He is a former VP Finance of a video game company,
and is a Game Theory expert.
He Can Play Chess With Putin
and the rest of the assholes
.
Yes. Game Theory on what to do when you are both on the edge of a cliff and chained to your opponent : dance closer to the edge than they are prepared to, to win.
Thing is, there is a real risk they might slip and fall off.
Game theory doesn't help unless both participants are rational. And when one participant misjudges the opponent's rationale (or doesn't fully understand its framework) they become "irrational" and the applicability of the calculations goes out the window.
You can switch horses and pretend its a plan B.
So far I have zero enthusiasm that the BRICS alternative is nothing but a short "better" alternative for some. It gives the appearance of a much resisted Plan "B". Once again I refer to the historical works of many people like Sutton, Farrell, Watts. Griffin, Kahhn, Mullins, Quigley who are among many that provide verification there is a very long range planning scheme by a few that appears incredulous to most.
'Mr Global' has a very very very long history that is not national. Mr Global will and is switching his useful idiots around the board. Mr Global invested in preferred nation status for China in recent years. Coincidentally China is part of the BRICS & able to accumulate gold whilst other nations have been selling/robbed of theirs. It is odd that those playing chess since the days of Babylon, carefully interfering with the rise and fall of many civilizations across the globe would somehow become stupid and incapable of plotting chess strategies. Only their minions, the useful idiots would be worried about being on the wrong side of a planned destruction/up-rise of various nation BLOCS.
Note we're increasingly talking about blocs...not nations. It appears to be a natural defense mechanism - form a bloc. Read a few of the above authors -it becomes obvious that the obvious was extremely well predicted before most of us were born.
lolololololololol turn down for what?
tsipras and yv seem to be playing good cop, bad cop. tsipras talks about an exit like a foregone decision, then yv comes in and mollifies them with niceties about working out the debt, blah, blah, blah.
"The euro is fragile, it's like building a castle of cards, if you take out the Greek card the others will collapse."
So it's still a house of fucking cards, so again, what's the point other than to use greece as a conduit to bail out the bond holders at 15%? Greece is still fucked, it's citizens are still in debt up to their ears, the rest of europes and the U.S. productive slaves are still on the hook for the money and the bankers are happy as a pig in shit. What? Greece got a new change of clothes in Tispara and more free shit for greek public sector workers?
Greece leaving the euro would cause it to collapse like a prisoner leaving a prison would cause it to collapse... greece cannot and will not leave as it is a prisoner of the EU system
It seems to me the Greeks could very easily solve the problem by purchasing several truckloads of pretty paper and an attractive blue ink. By printing off a few billion drachmas and declaring a one-to-one exchange rate with the euro, they would have all the money that they need. They can pay off their debt, and maybe even lend Portugal and Spain enough drachmas so they can pay off some of their debt also.
After that they can declare eminent domain and pay drachma fair value for all the public properties the bankers ripped off from them in paying down paper EU debts.
Do not know why they have not thought of that one yet.
1 Drachma = 1 Euro.
Backed by the full faith and credit of the Greek government and people.
Legal tender for all debts public & private.
ECB members could go to jail if they refuse to accept payment in Drachmas, according to Greek legal tender laws!
Not just nice, but genius.
Have we been witnessing Project Mayhem all along?
You are a genius Tylers.
...yeah, let it hit the fan...
How many Euro short-squeezes will hit first though?
Obama PSA airs during Grammys, is his presence now mandatory at all major televised events?http://tinyurl.com/o9hf3tl
Euro dies and not because of Greece, but Greece will be blamed for it
Euro dies
EU constitution dies
EU lives on as common market
"EU lives on as common market"
And they could have stopped there in the beginning, but for the wild aspirations of EUtopian dreams and a common currency between disparate economies.
common market without political integration is saying we don't like you but we want to make money off you. so you have a group trying to get one over on the other. hardworking ones thinking they will out compete to win and the Lazyones that think they are smart and have others do the work so they can enjoy their lives. creditors vs debtors have fundamentaly different goals. same as it ever was. bankruptcy always ends that game, so that they can do it all over again. human nature takes more than centuries to change it seems.
Euro dies.
No questions asked.
It is over
so completely over.
I'll call your trillion
and raise you 2 more ...
Exactly right MG, it was formed around a common currency instead of a common people, which as we have seen do not think alike and have differing values.
The guy sitting under the tree will have to go back to work and the guy squeezing the last drop of blood & sweat from the over-worked will need to find a different victim or do it himself.
And the circle of life continues ;-)
I recall in 99 when this monster was created, someone saying it was like the Pope, the Mafia, and the thrifty Dutch all sharing a bank account.
Buffet said they all effectively traded credit cards and then went out for diner and drinks to celebrate.
But what about the one world government, the absolute peak of efficiency.
So what if it requires we all be reduced to automatrons? For the sake of efficiency we must be made all the same, only differentiated by number, seen by easily printed tatoos and implanted chips. Ah, to be one with the Borg.
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Man can make, Man can break...
So do you think greece will exit now? I know they will, it is just a question of when. Glad to see you post.
Is that before or after the global economy collapses?
Damn, I hate agreeing with you!
Now that's moving forward!
Greece should default, kick NATO out and proceed with Russian discussions.
Same with Italy.
Screw the Euro banksters. Let them eat their loans.
The icing in the cake is if they did the same as Iceland and jailed the banksters.
LegaNord! LegaNord! LegaNord!
Meanwhile.... Another bankster death?
http://dlvr.it/8SKYFk
"died from self inflicted stab chest"
Nice.
Agreed. Dat be sum bad-ass gansta journo, truf!
A number of reasons for the "murder-suicide" that I can see right from the start:
1. Worked for JP Morgan (strike one)
2. Lived in NJ (strike two)
3. Wife's name was Iran (strike three)
4. Had 15-month-old baby (strike four(?) and two-month late h/t to Stevie Wonder "... broke the looking glass...")
Much Older Wife.. probably didn't like, Hooker stains
I know someone, who knows that person. Will look up what happened.
Bring it on.
Just as an aside, Greece' influence over the Euro has very deep impact upon all things Ukraine as well, and not just being cosier with Russia.
The deals being made for big agri in Western Ukraine counter the strategic scramble for the heavier industry in the pro Russian east.
The fact or even the perception of a pan Euro "collapse" impacts Poland's economy and their influence across Belarus, the Baltics and Ukraine.
How does a de-stablinzed Euro impact Germany's payment to Russia for natural gas?
The butterfly's wings can either turn into a fairy's fart or a hurricane.
It will be up to the 'garchs on both sides - just like WW1 as to whether they want disaster or not.
When each side of a conflict feels that can consolidate their control with war watch out.
EU blackmailers being blackmailed. Greece needs to leave the euro and save the western world from unmoney.
UN counterfeit.
Fixed.
I agree. The new leadership in Greece has been threatened but ultimately it will be bribed and, sadly, I suspect it will take the bribe. Why bribed? Exactly because it is afterall "unmoney" that it will be bribed with, and "WHATEVER IT TAKES".
Putin holds some cards now and could help topple the Euro.
Sweet!
Toppling the Euro would be counter productive.
Putin wants to topple the dollar.
A radioactive Japan and countries seceding from the Eurozone makes toppling the dollar more difficult.
I don't think he wants to topple the dollar. I think he wants to be Europes sole energy supplier and not have the Germans tell him what to do.
In order to to remove US hegemony and create either a multipolar or pluralistic order, the status of dollar as WRC has to be changed, US control of IMF & WBG (including ICSID and the Washington Convention framework) has to be removed, WTO has to be decorporatized and a schism has develop between the EU and the US or at least the continental EU and the US (which would serve to isolate the Anglo-Saxon domination of NATO and the G10 read BIS) - which would cause the relative value of his exports versus the services and financialization exports of the West increase. Perhaps goal wasn't the best word choice - how about pit-stop on the path to a Puti World Order?
Since Rockefeller for one example, is behind SWIFT, has free landing status in Russia and is part of the China preferred nation status, a key driver of the G20, co-formenter of the BIS, SWIFT, UN, IMF, and just about anything that cuts both ways....I wonder where theoretical "US hegemony" fits into the much longer and bigger picture?
The USA was, a potentially annoying, but by and large coerced into being a very useful brand and is more now useful to shape the impending chaos that calls for.....new order. Some seem to applauding the usual option of choice A or B, Red or Blue, East or West. How odd, the universe provides space for creativity not merely an either or option.
You could always ask Bill Browder if Safra got the Magnitsky treatment?
You don't live to David Rockefeller's age and operate at that level, when you cross the wrong people.
Forget the euro. Putin could help topple the Fourth Reich---has to, actually, for Russia's sake, and the sake of all Europeans of good will.
On to Dresden!
Putin.
The Russian word for Kardashian.
It's amazing the dumbass Eurocrats ['smartest guys in the room'] constructed such an elegant, 'perfected' system with absolutely no robust staying power whatsoever. They never 'ruggedized' their creation.
This sums it up perfectly:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/19898838@N04/16475565581/
weak dude, very weak
Varoufakis is no diplomat.
You are correct. A diplomat is someone that keeps the same old shit rolling along.
A diplomat is one who plays Diplomacy. The entire point of the game is timing your betrayal perfectly.
I'm not so sure.
Exactly:
In case that SYRIZA has a secret agenda, and be pressed by the lenders beyond red lines, it could nationalize the central bank and return to the national currency, blowing up eurozone. This could bring a disaster to the plutocrats' plans, as may trigger the domino of other Leftist European parties to follow SYRIZA's example and drive Europe towards the direction of the real democracy and unification under different terms for the benefit of the majority.
How about nationalize the Central Bank and print all the euros they want?
I love this marine,,,as he tells it like it really fucking IS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Can you imagine him being interviewed on the nightly news hahahahahaha
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9RXonzoJPg
This is based on self respect and tradition - remember the Riot Dog!
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=riot+dog&t=ffsb&iax=1&ia=images
The clocks ticks another minute closer to midnight for country finally pressing the giant RESET button.