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Greek FinMin Warns "Euro Will Collapse If Greece Exits", Says Italy Is Next
The time for the final all-in bet has arrived.
As we explained yesterday, when we wrote that "Greece Gambles On "Catastrophic Armageddon" For Europe, Warns It "Only Has Weeks Of Cash Left"", and as confirmed further by today's fire and brimstone speech by Greek PM Tsipras, in which he not only did not concede one millimeter to Europe but raised the stakes even higher, by promising among other things to raise the minimum wage and to halt foreclosures, Greece is now betting everything that Europe will not allow it to exit, hoping that "this time is not different", and the existential terror that would be heaped on the Eurozone as forecast in 2012 by the likes of Citi's Buiter and IIF's Charles Dallara, will still take place, and Europe will concede that spending a few more billion on Greece's bridge program is worth to avoid what could potentially spiral into an out of control collapse.
To be sure, that is precisely what Yanis Vaourfakis implied today when he said that "if Greece is forced out of the euro zone, other countries will inevitably follow and the currency bloc will collapse, Greek Finance Minister Yanis Varoufakis said on Sunday, in comments which drew a rebuke from Italy."
The comments emerged from an interview we commented on earlier with Italian state television network RAI, Varoufakis said Greece's debt problems must be solved as part of a rejection of austerity policies for the euro zone as a whole. He called for a massive "new deal" investment program funded by the European Investment Bank.
From Reuters:
"The euro is fragile, it's like building a castle of cards, if you take out the Greek card the others will collapse." Varoufakis said according to an Italian transcript of the interview released by RAI ahead of broadcast.
The euro zone faces a risk of fragmentation and "de-construction" unless it faces up to the fact that Greece, and not only Greece, is unable to pay back its debt under the current terms, Varoufakis said.
"I would warn anyone who is considering strategically amputating Greece from Europe because this is very dangerous," he said. "Who will be next after us? Portugal? What will happen when Italy discovers it is impossible to remain inside the straitjacket of austerity?"
So now that Greece is all in, the time for even more truth has emerged, and if Greece is finally being honest, it may as well spook Italy and drag it down - or rather up - with it.
"Italian officials, I can't tell you from which big institution, approached me to tell me they backed us but they can't tell the truth because Italy also risks bankruptcy and they are afraid of the reaction from Germany," he said.
"Let's face it, Italy's debt situation is unsustainable," he added, a comment that drew a sharp response from Italian Economy Minister Pier Carlo Padoan, who said in a tweet that Italy's debt was "solid and sustainable."
Varoufakis's remarks were "out of place", Padoan said, adding that Italy was working for a European solution to Greece's problems, which requires "mutual trust".
Italy's public debt is the largest in the euro zone after Greece's and Italian bond yields surged in 2011 at the height of the euro zone crisis. They have since fallen steeply and have so far come under little pressure from the renewed tensions in Greece.
And while the Greek "scorched earth" approach would have no doubt succeeded had it taken place three, two or even one year ago, when Europe still had some faint resemblance of an actual market, the difference this time is that by dint of its recently launched QE, which revealed that Germany's staunch "anti money printing " stance was nothing but melodramatic theater all along, it is the ECB that is in charge of every asset class in Europe: from the EUR, to the German Bund, to the Italian BTPs, to the DAX to, well, everything, and neither fundamentals nor non-central bank players matter any more.
Which is why Greece may have waited just three weeks to long with its final gambit, as Europe is confident that the ECB's interventions can offset the loss of faith in an already crashing Eurozone (if only for a short period of time, of course). Because the alternative, ceding to Greece, means that all other European peripheral states will demand the same treatment.
Which brings us back to Greece, for whom the moment has finally arrived: the moment which was so eloquently described by a Chuck Palahniuk character when he said that "it is only after we have lost everything, that we are free to do anything."
"We" in this case being Greece. The only question is whether the freedom from its final loss has arrived just a few weeks too late...
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The changes for Greece to get a deal are fairly bright even if it doesn’t look like that at the surface. let me explain:
Germany is in a ‘damned if we do damned if we don’t situation’ and therefore is willing to put extensive pressure on Greece but in fact over all are on the losing end if they don’t.
Because if Greece exits the European monetary union they not only get exposed to severe losses source which their banking system has to absorb but also lose credibility for the EU as a whole.
And Russia now has put even more pressure on Germany by vowing to help Greece and if this happens Greece may even offer the Russians some ports to park their battle ships exactly what Cyprus is doing now. This is an incredible development.***
Frankly I hope Germany keeps it’s stupid stubbornness and Greece exit’s the EU because if Greece get’s a deal it will be half baked and only postpone what will happen eventually with the EU on the long run taking into account the rapid declining economical situation especially concerning Italy, Spain and Portugal and now also France.
As Germany is the only country in Europe making economical progress this hardly can be a bases for a sustaining European Union, that’s just impossible.
***Europe Fractures: France Pivots To Putin, Cyprus Offers Moscow Military Base, Germany-US Splinter On Ukraine http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-02-08/europe-fractures-france-pivots-putin-cyprus-offers-moscow-military-base-germany-us-s
Youri, you are posting soo many news over the years but you don´t seem to read them.
- most Greek debt is held by the EU countries directly or indirectly. The banks are not involved much anymore. And they have collateral.
- Greece is not able to default on most its debt since it´s under English law, same thing as in the case of Argentine.
- ALL Eurozone countries have a significant share of Greek debt on their books. And a lot of other countries via IMF. And nobody wants to write this off.
And finally. the banking system most at the hook for a Greek default are the banks of the NETHERLANDS. Think about that.
English law or not, the Greeks can just refuse to pay. While that may get them blackballed from the western financial system, there's a brand new financial system ripening fast in the east. Is this the ideal time to start depending on the Russian SWIFT etc.? Hell no, but you play the cards you're dealt.
You are so clueless. The Greeks pay next to nothing interest and are not repaying any capital on their debt now and till 2020. What are you refusing, if you don´t have to pay anyway? And Greece gets billions of Euros in EU payments like structural find money every year, this is collateral for the other EU states as creditors. Greece will get no money from EU anymore, Greece will get no money on the capital market, Greece will get no money from the Russians, those guys are running out of cash too. Austerity will hit Greece in a way you havn´t seen jet after a GReek default.
Which brings us back to Greece, for whom the moment has finally arrived: the moment which was so eloquently described by a Chuck Palahniuk character when he said that "it is only after we have lost everything, that we are free to do anything."
Or, as Bob sang in "Rolling Stone", "when you ain't got nothing, you got nothing to lose..."
Don't need a Weatherman to see which way the wind blows.
Can we hurry through Greece drama and get to Italy? Been waiting years.
Oh, BOO HOO.
LET Greece fall. It's been downhill for the bastards ever since the era of their Great Thinkers, anyway.
And: IF the Euro were to "fail" it would only mean the countries with the strongest economies
would fall back on their previous currencies...you think that worries them?!
Just like dumping welfare as we know it in the USA, if the poor/lazy, parasitic European countries "fail",
does it really matter? I mean REALLY?!?
And, NO, your "CARING" about those poor bastards doesn't count;
IF YOU WANT IT TO COUNT, THROW YOUR OWN DAMNED CASH AT THEM.
That would be funny for JPM with all those Derivatives but the lawyers can work through all the contracts as currencies change and default. You Americans always see the easy way foward - Global Default
Time to invest in some Gold Phillharmonics. Not only for their intrinsic value, but their collectibility value seeing as they're all stamped "EURO"
Mr. Panos called it months ago.....& now it's down to the 'nut cuttin'... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zvl9N9GdraQ
Ha, that one never gets old. "The superior Greek brain fed with Feta Cheese and Olive Oil" LOL
We've been calling this since what, 08. Well now we have a time frame for the shit to start hitting stuff. Bout time!!!
Russia and Egypt might soon exclude the US dollar and use their national currencies in the settlement of accounts in bilateral trade, Russian President Vladimir Putin said in an interview to Egyptian media ahead of his Monday visit to the country.
READ MORE: Iran moves away from US dollar in foreign trade
The issue of abandoning the dollar in trade is “being actively discussed,” Putin told Al-Ahram daily newspaper ahead of his two-day trip to Egypt. The Russian president was invited for a bilateral meeting by his Egyptian counterpart Abdul Fattah al-Sisi.
“This measure will open up new prospects for trade and investment cooperation between our countries, reduce its dependence on the current trends in the world markets,” Putin said.
http://rt.com/business/230447-russia-egypt-trade-dollar-drop/
Which brings us back to Greece, for whom the moment has finally arrived: the moment which was so eloquently described by a Chuck Palahniuk character when he said that "it is only after we have lost everything, that we are free to do anything."
Or as Janis Joplin sang "Freedom's just another word for nothin' left to lose"
stateside
Pink offers probably the best vocals of BobbyMcGee:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwmUMvhy-lY
stateside
Compared to Janis Fucking Joplin? You're trippin' son.
ditto. You need schoolin'... now I'm not foolin'
I crashed at the same place with JJ in SF. Loved the way she said "Sheeit!".
As much as I like Pink, there really is no comparision.
What else can you do when you have this?
http://www.twoangelsfoundation.org/images/events/feature-poker-tourny.jpg
All I see are a pair of aces, and in Texas hold em, that is no guarantee of a win, I guarantee you that much. Even so, the Greeks are playing against a stacked deck.
It's too late baby, we really did try to make it. Something inside, has died...blah blah blah
It is almost too late for humanity, the Lucifarian secret societies have made certain of that much. Take a deep look inside you, do you have the fortitude to survive in total chaos, most don't!
If this thing really gets out of hand and a bunch of hot wars break out, there will be few left to tell the history.
The Greeks put themselves in this situation, the US, EU et al, politicians and banksters frothed at the mouth for world domination, guided by greed, averice and pride.
Get right with the man upstairs, the Lord Jesus Christ is your ONLY salvation.
Bullocks. Average Joe on the street in Greece is as liable as average Joe In USA, Kenya, Uruguay.
Quit the freak out mode. They've been playing this for many many centuries and we're still here. They have and will continue to extend an extraordinary amount of energy on manipulating, controlling and corrupting us. Just because your life and country may change form that does not mean they have won the war against us all or you personally.They consider nations to be brand names and like to mix it up a bit now and then for the greatest market share of the planet possible while wearing freak clothes and worshiping that which they ridicule us for (something we can't see but in our case is usually a benevolent God & not something that creates pure hell on earth for everyone).
Get right with yourself (i.e. some god other than an iPod or what the UN endorses), get a grip of how to make a good life in changing times (they hate that), be family oriented, stop watching tv and quite condemning other nations who have been manipulated and coerced into the same shit your "nation-brand" is about to experience.
Make friends with someone from a country you consider a joke - like Zimbabwe. You'll get a grip and perspective pretty fast without falling into a heap of fatalism or self pity.
Excellent
Half jokingly, this ensures a rapid coup, led by the CIA, and on orders from the global banking cartel.
" promising among other things to raise the minimum wage and to halt foreclosures"
Don't worry, Draghi will do whatever it takes.
The rulers in Brussels must be pissing in their collective pants. All their power, all their staffs, all their high pay and luxury benefits, all and more are now in question should the Union of Soviet European Republics begin to crash.
Greece is betting that Brussels will do anything and everything to continue to "extend and pretend". If Greece fails and drops out. The horrible state of Spain and Italy will refuse to pay their trillions back to european banks. Banks MAY, I say MAY, have finally overplayed their hand. Germany is now the banker enforcer, using state power of Germany to enforce bankers dictates.
The fucking bankers have won every round, never lost a battle. It is high time this greedy cunts got fucked, fucked big time.
"The rulers in Brussels must be pissing in their collective pants"
OMG: now we know the truth: they all share the same pair of underpants. Monday = Junkett, Tuesday = The Pole Dancer, Wednesday = Barroso, Thursday = (nobody wants them) ... ... ...
I'm all in. Fuck it, I call.
What u got?
I don't take paper money, just metal. Black, silver or golden metal. Payment on delivery.
From the Sydney morning Herald regarding Varoufakis's economic game theory:
His specialty of game theory is possibly best known as the domain of management consultants and military planners - as far away from left-wing political economics as one could get.
The mathematical discipline studies strategic decision making in competitive situations. Its best known "game" is the "prisoner's dilemma", which shows how two individuals can "rationally" come to a decision that is in neither of their interests.
"He was aware of the limitations of game theory, but I'm sure he will apply what he learnt about strategic thinking to whole problem of Europe's political economy," said Frank Stillwell, another former colleague at the University of Sydney.
"And he will be doing it at a time when the future of the European Union is in the balance."
The academics are all drawn to "game theory" like moths to a light.
This is, however, not theory, but a real down to earth poker game with enormous stakes.
You better have balls of steel or just don't play the game.
Greece just called all in, but instead of holding 2-7 offsuit they have AA.
Nope.
Cards on table are KQJ spades.
Greece holds A-10 Spades..
Royal flush pisses on every other hand in the book.
Read it and weep.
Greece: Are you serious? I mean... seriously! Why on earth would you want to remain in this gang of predators who you clearly know are nothing more than drooling power-hungry predators?
I don't know enough about European history or politics or mindset to understand all the dynamics, but good grief! Perhaps this new dynamic duo is just pretending they want to remain in the EU and euro. I sure hope so, because otherwise they're completely crazy.
If Greece 100% defaults, the burden removed is enormous! Don't you realize that? If Greece is no longer constrained by the endless totally bogus, insane, destructive authoritarian rules created by the unaccountable EU, another great burden is removed. And if Greece exists... tourism from other parts of the world to Greece will explode.
Gads, I hope nothing gets in the way of Greece leaving the EU, followed by everyone else. The first thing they will find is... less antagonism between the countries, because no longer are they all trying to take advantage of each other through the mechanism of the EU.
Don't even wait for EU to kick you out. QUIT. Then live free and independent without debt, Greece. You'll find life is much, much, much better, especially in the long run. Don't be a putz. Break free.
In principle that is right, honestann, I couldn't agree more, but the thing is that historically the poverty of Greece has been dire. People there are terrified of going back to that. If you read e.g. Patrick Leigh Fermor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mani:_Travels_in_the_Southern_Peloponnese) it gives you a sense of what it has been like there. If your culture is incredibly corrupt, as Greece's is, it means you don't trust your countrymen to help you create a fair and productive new system; you hope for an outsider (the EU) to keep things in order and going. And most Greeks do not want to leave the EU, for those reasons.
That "outsider" is SUCKING THEM DRY. Doubtless you've seen the pie-charts published in the past week or so right here in ZH articles. 92% or more of every "loan" the Greeks receive is paid directly to banksters... to their "creditors", the remaining 8% being paid to the Greek government, who skims 6% to 8% of that 8% to pay cronies and various [non-bankster] oligarchs.
THE GREEK PEOPLE GET NOTHING.
Oh, sorry, let me correct myself.
GREEK PEOPLE GET TO PAY BACK 100% OF THAT DEBT.
-----
I have no idea what ABSOLUTELY INSANE notions regular Greek people might have about getting these loans. I really don't. Like people all over the world, they're probably grossly misled about what happens with these loans, and the fact that they get nothing, except repay the loan.
Every honest individual living in a corrupt country is inherently WORSE OFF when they receive loans. Why? Because the country is corrupt. The government has been thoroughly configured and habituated to feeding any income (from loans, taxes or elsewhere), directly into the hands of the human predators who ARE the corrupt, and who ARE the predators who prey upon the people.
And so, to eliminate all those sources of easy money for human predators is a GOOD THING. After all, it is never those human predators who PAY OFF THOSE LOANS... those human predators are ALWAYS and FOREVER on the RECEIVING SIDE of the equation.
-----
The Greeks may not want to leave the EU, but that is only because THEY DO NOT UNDERSTAND. They BELIEVE the LIES told to them. In other words, they are victims of FRAUD. They need to be released, no matter what they think, because to do otherwise is to abuse them further.
-----
The Greek people WILL DO GREAT... IF:
- 100% DEFAULT on all loans
- EXIT the eurozone and euro
- SWEAR OFF ALL DEBT FOREVER
- CUT GOVERNMENT SPENDING BY 90%
And THAT is a fact. Because in modern times, human beings are EASILY capable of producing enough to live the good life... especially people located in such a favorable place on the planet as Greece. The only requirement is... SWEAR OFF DEBT and KEEP PREDATORS AWAY.
Now, how does one do these things?
To swear off debt means just that. If they have to write it into their constitution or whatever fiction they have, then do so. Government cannot spend more than it receives. When government has less money than they "need", they reduce the size of all paychecks, and cut back the size and scope of new and existing projects.
To keep predators away is easy. If you make government tiny enough, and make sure it only does absolutely necessary tasks, then those predators won't see enough easy pickens in government to attract them. Of course the real solution is to totally abandon government, which can be done in mild and measured manner (for worry warts like yourself) is to switch over to a "government by subscription" model, where all programs are available by subscribing to them (and receiving the service), or not (and not receiving the service). Over time, private entities will always provide services more efficiently, and the "government" will gradually vanish... as it should... along with all the "easy pickings" those human predators love to get from government.
There really is no other choice but to let Greece leave. If the EU blinks, there's Spain, Italy, Portugal, etc that will want the same handout.
The thing is, Greece doesn't really want to leave, they just want want some "walking around money" for a few more years. If they were serious about their "independence" why even play this charade and just default already? Instead it's just threat after threat.
I hope the EU dissolves, but the Greeks will be slitting each others throats for toilet paper in a few short years under Socialism. Their future is Venezuela.
They don't want walking around money, they want a European New Deal. They want Germany to invest all their carefully amassed profits back into the PIIGS. If you think it's hard to squeeze blood out of a stone try getting a German to give up what he thought he gained.
This ain't gonna end well.
Extremely unlikely that other countries will leave Euro AFTER Greece does,
Because they will see that economy in Greece goes from bad to horrific.
Greece has been living on stolen money, I say "stolen" because the Greeks "borrow" the money under pretense of a loan, ie intent + obligation to repay the money, BUT historically, they do not repay the "loans". The Greeks have always used the stolen loot to live better than they have earned through their own products and services, and to rollover previous "loans". Eventually this scheme breaks down, and it seems the time is now, AGAIN.
Without "borrowed" money, the Greeks will havee to live on what they actually earn, which will be a HUGE step down. The Spanish, Portugese, Italians etc are not eager too make the same move.
Other countries are doing the same with "borrowed" money, but are not as far into the failure cycle as Greece.
We are entering the era when "lending" to politicians by buying their bonds actually constitutes gifting your money to the politicians because the probability of getting your loan repaid is diminishing - much better to spend it on yourself.
"Extremely unlikely that other countries will leave Euro AFTER Greece does,
Because they will see that economy in Greece goes from bad to horrific."
You, nor anyone else at this point knows Greece goes from bad to worse.
YES, I DO Know Greece's economy will be MUCH WORSE on it's own
BECAUSE
Greece has been spending HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS of "borrowed" euros, ie created money - they will not have this HUGE infusion of money when on their own.
Get your incompetent head out of your ideological ass and starting thinking instead of just reacting.
You're all full of shit. You act all act like Greece didn't even have an economy of its own before joining the Euro. What was Greece's international accounts looking like before they joined the Euro? As I recall, Germany was slightly in debt to Greece by 1999. When Greece leaves, their economy will shrink and go back to the scale it was trucking along on before joining the Euro. They will be fine. They may not be Germans, but they will survive and not eat each other. For all of you people shouting racist things about the Greeks, you outta be ashamed of yourselves - you act as if these people are animals or something!
DO NOT insult animals !!!!
The Greeks are parasites.
YES you are absolutely correct, after Greece leaves the Euro, the Greek economy will contract, by a very large amount, well-deserved, because the noble virtuous Greeks did not overthrow the politicians who commited fraud to get into the Euro, who borrowed and spent and stole the HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS of Euros, and who spent some of the money on HUGELY bloated government that crushes entrepreneurs, has millions of do-nothing-useful jobs, and pays absurdy numerous entitlement programs.
The Greeks are in for generations of misery, and they deserve it - all self-inflicted, because all they had to do to avoid this misery is to NOT borrow the money - ASSHOLE !!!!!!!!!!!
.
You ever think to ask yourself why anyone is loaning them any money if it is known 'historically, they do not repay the "loans"'?
Who is at fault here, the borrowers, or the lenders? Who is, and HAS been, the stupid one?
High time for these lenders to start eating their bad bets.
BOTH parties are guilty, NOT just the one you hate.
And both parties should suffer. The 'investors' and creditors suffer by losing their shirts, the debtors suffer by losing their access to the wealth of others to finance lifestyles they can't afford. Along with their pledged collateral, if any. All the bad debt is liquidated, and both parties pick up whatever pieces they have left and drive on.
This really isn't rocket science.
Is this like-- World Wide Y2K
A Great Light rises in the West, and the East. It is the truth. It is the real Spirit of the Christ energy awareness that is finding the true hearts across the world. It becomes moar and moar apparent that all humanity, all of the children of Creation are seeing WHO the real enemies of mankind are. It is as if there was some Greater unmutable Light-force giving each soul on board a choice of paths to take. Be it a path of salvation, or will it be a path of death? Time for diddly-daddling on the teeter totter of history is not an abundant commodity. Listen to your heart, and then make your choice.
Everybody knows the truth. Everybody knows who is the common enemy. Everybody has seen enuff of the lies and total bullsquat disinforming horsecarp over and over again, and they are sick and tired of it all. No one believes that the best and apparently honorable world leader in this century, Mr Putin sir, is the one responsible for all the mayhem in the Ukraine. Everybody knows it is this tribe of evil filth that has been responsible for ALL the govt sponsored terrorism since time immortal. Everybody knows this horrid trash has done moar to destabilize and control the world than any other tribe on the planet. It's just awful!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xe5cQDIbMs
Everybody also knows who and where these cretins of evil are. Ever moar growing lists and locations are are being compiled hand written on paper and passed hand to hand, hand to back, foot to foot, knee to knee, mouth to ear, and whispered into the ears of the growing masses that are waiting for the tribe to fire the next shot. No moar surprises or laughing stock tribe shenanigans will be tolerated. Instead, should it come again in state sponsored terrorism, it may trigger the pent up shark eating frenzy of the fully awakened masses that have had enough of these money changin things of the moneygod, and their slave puppets and slimy minions of hell that cause it all. People think the shot heard around the world was something. Wait until the Universe sounds off. For aeons the loudest sound ever heard will resound infinitatum in many many many galaxies far far away. It will be the magnanimous sound of, Freedom!
Sunday School:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lct-RZ3n4t4
Reality:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h27HRNm_r4U
----The evil ruling elites and lies of the moneygod tribe will fade like snow flakes in the desert sun...the truth of Love and Righteous Light will sustain forever on the Stones of Historical Time
Lazy greeks, italians, it all comes down to one thing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2R9Qiej-Tqo
And while everyone throws in his two cents, the world will destroy another $4.65 B in capital today (i.e. 93 million barrels of oil). Where are the CONSERVatives?
Sheeples in the USSA still laothing about SuperBowl and have no idea abt what is happening around the globe.
We resent that! Don't you know Bruce Jenner is getting a sex change and he was involved in a fatal car crash yesterday?
Fuck Greece, who bought $2,500,000,000.00 in Dominican Republic "Human Development Bonds"?
My guess is the Federal Reserve or ECB.
There are bigger ripoffs than Greece.
Just for the record, the new Greek PM is a raging marxist:
Tsipras is not married. His registered partner is Peristera Batziana, an electrical and computer engineer. The two met in 1987, when 13, at the Ampelokipoi Branch High School and both became members of the Communist Youth of Greece. They live together in Athens with their two sons.[17] Their youngest son's middle name is Ernesto, a tribute to Che Guevara. Tsipras is an avid football fan and, having grown up near the stadium, supports Panathinaikos, attending every home game that he can.[7] Tsipras is a self-described atheist,[18][19] making him one of the at least four atheist leaders in the European Union (along with Francois Hollande, Miloš Zeman, and Zoran Milanovi?).[20]
If that's what it takes to kill the monster in Brussels, then so be it. Once that's done, who cares what he does in Greece. If the Greeks don't like his domestic policies, then they know what to do. (No DV from me, though.)
Much of that sounds to be true. Nevertheless, it seems to me he might be going thru a brain reshuffle and beginning to realise that Greek sovereignty and national self-determination is more important than fantasy Marxism. For sure, his current behaviour does not befit a raging Marxist.
Yeah but he probably has some bad points too. Seriously, an atheist who cohabits with an engineer. No wonder he seems so grounded in reality.
Did anyone explain to Tsipras that Communism is just an affirmative action program for khazars?
The spic gets it next!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_JOGmXpe5I
Are the Itaians not also tired of living under the Jackboot of Germany & The USSA, just wondering?
Stocks wiil be ripped to smithereens': SocGen bear...take it for what it's worth
http://www.cnbc.com/id/102400384
If everything here was measured the same as Europe...
Well, I would never have believed that I'd be supporting two socialists: Tsipras and Yanis. But here we are, and I wish them the best of luck at dealing a death blow to this utterly corrupt socialist construct and blood-sucking vampire known as the EU. May it die a painful death and all those who sail in her.
ps: we'll be round to repatriate the €billions you've siphoned off thru huge pensions and severance pay-offs.
Same feeling.
Interestingly , they're about as socialists as they are currently broke , that alone is worth a few solid Au bullions priced in irony. But giving massive headaches to those commies-totalitarian-bastards euro technocrates hiding in their goldman-sponsored bavarian castles in the process ,
is just the absolute cherry on top of the giant shit cake. the entertainment value of the whole show is just off the scale.
.
"Which is why Greece may have waited just three weeks to long with its final gambit,..."
What? Syrzia could have acted faster?
This whole denouement is playing out at lightning speed, and by the time of the Greek election the timing and synchrony of events was already determined. But if Greece had somehow been able to act faster, don't you think the ECB's interventions might not have happened sooner too? It's their last card - were they not bound to try playing it?
I pray everyday that those lazy, whining, Greek deadbeats get kicked the f out of the EU.
As opposed to those hard working, tax paying Oligarchs?
You make me laugh.
New investopidia term: WVWAP. Weekend VWAP. The closing price from friday to market open. All weekend news comes in. Market opens 18:00 EST and by 9:30am moves to close any gap down. cheers. short over the weekend in a slight hope more than 10% of the sheep start catching on. We know how this ends, I go long PCLN for 10 inutes to make up for my small short position over the weekend on monday.
Greece could exit the EU, cancel its' obligations and it will still demand German compensation for WWII.
Why?
Because the new government of Greece is just a bunch of hot air.
NOTHING WILL CHANGE IN THE WAY GREECE OPERATES.
Eniugh, default already and clear the debt. Just like Iceland.
The rest of the PIIGS need to do the same.
Greece is not systemic so I think the troika will let them go and try to set an example for the rest of the EU. Greece will be better on its own. With the drachma back they will become competitive again in a few years.
Let's just hope all this isn't another example of scripted reality -- pushing all the vcows into another field.
Drachmas going to skyrocket in value as soon as its released into circulation . . . going to set record gains.^^
Greece has no obligation to pay sums that the lender KNEW they could NOT pay at inception; the so-called "bailout" was a scam from the outset designed not to save Greece but rather to falsely claim solvency of institutions such as banks within the EU and even the ECB itself.
THE SAME SITUATION EXISTS RIGHT HERE, RIGHT NOW IN THE UNITED STATES AND DESPITE THE CLAIMS OF "GREAT EMPLOYMENT REPORTS" THE CONSEQUENCES THAT ARE INHERENT IN SUCH MONETARY SHENANIGANS ARE EVIDENT IN THE NUMBERS. WE ARE HEADED FOR THE SAME OUTCOME. UNLESS WE CHANGE COURSE WE ARE ARGUING ONLY "WHEN", NOT "WHAT."
http://market-ticker.org/
by dint of its recently launched QE
As far as I understand, ECB's QE was recently announced to effectively start in mid-March.
While I do believe it will really happen this time (not just more jawboning), I would not call it launched yet.
Will they, won't they...do they, don't they...are they, aren't they...ALL binary options guaranteed to do one thing...divide and conquer the people. Anytime you see only two choices, there is always a third or fourth that you are not supposed to think about and probably won't because you're too busy arguing about what they want you to argue about.
Year of the Sheeple !!!!!!!
https://moonlightenedshelves.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/chinese-zodiac-...
Italy, Spain and Portugal will be watching this situation with Greece very carefully. These countries still face the same kind of threats that are being applied to Greece. And of course the Irish have suffered dramatically under the austerity imposed on them.
So if these countries see that Europe will not ameliorate the hardships that have been imposed on them by these austerity programs, and these countries turn to Russia, China and India — the BRICS — you would then see a total breakdown in the EU system. This is a system where the banks get countries in debt and then they send in the IMF to impose austerity.
The Ultimate Black Swan As Countries Are Looted
The bank's clients then buy the premier assets of these countries for pennies on the dollar. It’s a looting process. That’s what happened to Greece. It also happened to Ireland. So if these European countries realize that all they are just being looted, they will then accept Putin’s offer and turn to the Russians and the Chinese. The BRICS can easily assist the Greeks.
These countries would then abandon Germany, Washington and the IMF, who are imposing all these hardships on them and also looting their countries. So there is the potential for the ultimate disaster here if the West is stupid and arrogant enough not to bend. That would mean the unraveling of the European Union and of NATO — the ultimate black swan.”
http://kingworldnews.com/paul-craig-roberts-putins-ultimate-move-crush-e...
They'd love to change the world, but they'll leave it up to you. Life is funny........
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKGYMA8Fnxs
Everywhere is freaks and hairies
Dykes and fairies, tell me where is sanity
Tax the rich, feed the poor
Till there are no rich no more?
I'd love to change the world
But I don't know what to do
So I'll leave it up to you
Population keeps on breeding
Nation bleeding, still more feeding economy
Life is funny, skies are sunny
Bees make honey, who needs money, Monopoly
I'd love to change the world
But I don't know what to do
So I'll leave it up to you
World pollution, there's no solution
Institution, electrocution
Just black and white, rich or poor
Them and us, stop the war
I'd love to change the world
But I don't know what to do
So I'll leave it up to you
Dexter, you can do your part by starting a new series: "Dexter in Manhattan".
Start on Wall St.
Greece flushes Germany or Germany flushes Greece? Germany has alot more to lose by letting Greece go but has no good reason to allow them to stay if they are not going to play by Tuetonic rules. Greece wins, even if they "lose" (leave the EU) and they WILL "lose," it's in their interest!
Negative interest rates are just prepping investors for their future - I expect that a number of countries will suddenly declare that your $1000 bond will be paid $950 at maturity rather than $1000.
Spain will be next ,,... then Italy . . I'll bet a cup of coffee on it...
How could Greece possibly have qualified to get into the European Union? Oh wait! now I remember:
http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/greek-debt-crisis-how-goldman...
Goldman Sachs , Euro suckers!
chess is a game of patience and opportunity
Dex, banksters are a bit like you:
They have a Code and their Rule #1 is "Never get caught".
Their trail of death and destruction pales anything your targets ever did.
I never could wrap my mind around how any economic bloc could maintain a uniform exchange currency without uniform economic and monetary policies. It seems like a recipe for disaster...no incentive for fiscal dicipline, evidenced by the PIGS. I'm curious to see how this all pans out.
Isn't this headline kinda like if all welfare takers go on strike it's going to end badly?
> A grexit-Euro-collapse will be avoided by murder or military diversion.
> The Greeks will be able to follow the path to financial freedom.
Perhaps this is all finally coming to a head.
A painful, if cathartic, rectal flush is what the world needs to clean up the decades-in-the-making of a mess it's in. If Greece is the initial domino, so be it.
The EU should never have happened in the first place. There was never any real basis for union beyond a presumably more powerful trading bloc. No one cared about the even-then obvious laggards in the south when the credit-laden times were good. The EU knew full well who Greece and the others were when they married them. They did the deal anyway.
Now, they raise hell about it.
If Greece goes, so will Germany.
Then the fighting will really start. The score settling will go on for years.
New deals between the east and former EU states (already happening between Russia and Greece) will further inflame the situation, and that'll probably call NATO out in the street to do something, or fold.
That's the trouble with blocs; when they disintegrate, lots of consequences follow.
What a mess...
m
The south are not laggards. In the 90's Italy was the 6th country in world by GDP. The UK was 7th.
It's the monetary union that destroyed everything.
Nothing to say about greece.
I DO however want people to STOP calling Madona by that name...it's disgusting...She will now and for ever be called by her plain ass middle name...LOUISE !
How's that for a name for an aging, devil worshipping, uniluminated WOP !
Now, back to Greece, bitchez !
"it is only after we have lost everything, that we are free to do anything."
How's that working for the people of N. Korea?
They're free to do it, whenever they get sick enough of living that way. Freedom to do still requires you to get up and DO it.
Eric Dubin on Greece/EU, Michael Cutler on Immigration Policy; General Paul Valley on Radical Islamic Threat; Dr. Dave Janda on "The BIG Lie"
TND Podcast Spotlight: "Operation Freedom"
http://thenewsdoctors.com/?p=280719
The new math:
Greek: hey, will you lend me 20 euros?
German: I've only got ten euros on me.
Greek: you can owe me the rest.
I''m feeling paranoid...what if Grexit was the plan all along.
What if they never seriously expected the Euro to work...they just wanted to have their filthy, devil worshipping, cabalisitic hands on they various currencies, suck the lifeblood from each economy and once they drained each country (now the case), it's "so long" and "good luck" rebuilding your extinct respective currencies.
Seems more likely than thinking that any of the Euro ass hats really thought a united europe could work...which I always considered tantamount to HEARDING CATS.
Herding cats is easy.
Get them hungry and they'll go where you want by using food.
A little too paranoid for my taste. Giving somebody way too much credit for being able to plan too perfectly.
Good luck Mr. Varoufakis. Someone in your situation could be a bit more humble, but I bet you will not get hurt by a financial collapse. I am sure your assets are safely stashed away abroad just waiting to scoop up Greek assets at rock bottom prices.
Meanwhile, the Germans who have lent massive amounts to you are getting spat on by your rethorik. Hopefully the pitchforks come out after a collapse to chase these morons out.
Something is finally happening to call the bluff. I've been waiting years for this. I haven't been so exited since the pigs ate my little brother.
YV has to play the game (something he seems to be very good at) by the rules at this stage. He has to let the EU turn down his loan request before he can take Greece off the Euro and out of the EU. Once that first barrier has been overcome, he will probably outline to the Greek people what will happen next to test the water and then execute, or hold a referendum if necessary.
EDIT: he's only asking for less than $10B in bridging which Putin could pay out of his own bank account. And the chinese will loan to anyone as long as they can set the conditions for replayment.
The EU has no choice but to reject Greece's demands. If they fold to their demands, they'll need to to do even more for Italy, Spain, Ireland, and Portugal. As for survival without Greece, absolutely. As for Greece surviing with no banks lending to them any time this half of the 21st century? Well, there's Zimbabwe.
Basically, Its the NWO losing control of everthing, It's just people, and someone is fighting back and they don't know to react. They will regroup and someone will die. I'd lay big money on that fact.
Delusions of grandeur.
i dont know what it all means. i do know the utility average was don 4 % on friday. now that is something to watch.
Italian Economy Minister Pier Carlo Padoan _tweets_....
" Italy's debt is solid and sustainable."
Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahah
Greece is only 2 percent of the Eurozone's GDP. So financial catastrophe is improbable.
If the EU reaches infinite Improbability, it passes through every conceivable point in every conceivable universe simultaneously.
Infinate shit to hit the infinate fan. Finally.
It really depends on who the weak hands are and how many derivatives they hold. Counterparties, my friend.
Waiting for Germany to raise the stakes here... Come on Bundesbank. Just mention the DM. Say the treaty has been broken. You're reevaluating the future of the union. The French will shit themselves. But make it hurt the Greek govt before Grexit.
All the money the Greeks (and eventually the citizens of the PIIGS) start stuffing in their mattresses is worthless if it isn't laundered in some way either by (1) sticking it in a German bank so it can't be discriminated against or (2) its converted to some other more stable currency.
Once non Euro countries place capital controls on their currency with regard to the Euro or the Germans see billions pouring into their banking system from the periphery (stuff they'll have to convert to DM) the whole thing goes tits up fairly quickly.
And while Europe's stuck in the accounting nightmare from hell, Putin can do whatever he wants.
... stuff they'll have to convert to DM ...
no, they won't. If Germany "gerexits" by simply introducing a parallel currency, it can choose what to convert, and people living abroad will not be amused ... same for Bund-holders. Germany won't pay the price again for the french imposed €. Payouts only thru Target2.
What you guys don't understand, (fiat-) money is just cotton or bits/bytes, nothing with real intrinsic value. The PIIGSF "printed" worthless cotton sheets and got real value for it (cars, machines, food, ...). Now Germany is sitting on these piles of nothing without hope of getting anything real back. A real PIIGSF-ponzi. So who is the real winner of this €-thing?
END THE EURO-SCAM NOW !
Bet against Germany; who represent EU Banksters and their failed toxic derivatives.
"The euro is fragile, it's like building a castle of cards, if you take out the Greek card the others will collapse."
Putin's Russia and the rest of the BRICS nations see Greece as a nice target for sanctions-busting trade and aid if Greece doesn't get what it wants from the EU.
Or as a legendary space commander put it:
"If we hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes should fall like a house of cards. Checkmate!"
I give you .... the disease... all else are symptoms:
THE PERFECT STORM (see p. 59 onwards)
The economy is a surplus energy equation, not a monetary one, and growth in output (and in the global population) since the Industrial Revolution has resulted from the harnessing of ever-greater quantities of energy. But the critical relationship between energy production and the energy cost of extraction is now deteriorating so rapidly that the economy as we have known it for more than two centuries is beginning to unravel. http://ftalphaville.ft.com/files/2013/01/Perfect-Storm-LR.pdf
"I don't get hepatitis C. I give hepatitis C"
Glenn Quagmire
So an honest question for those that wish to answer it. If Greece leaves the eurozone and this precipitates the collapse of the euro this should mean that the dollar becomes stronger against other currencies correct?
If this means a strong dollar and forces the PIGS to default wouldn't this mean that PM's should drop, especially if oil goes back up?
Also couldn't Russia and or china start to drop treasuries to buttress against a strong dollar? Have they started to bypass the dollar in order to offset this possibility?
OK that more than one question. Just trying to assess the playing field of stratego.
Yes all those scenarios are guaranteed IF the euro collapses ( very very doubtful ). Even if Greece exits the euro will not collapse, in fact it will be stronger. People saying that are falling for scare tactics by Greece and it's supporters. But IF the euro did collpase then yes the dollar would be stronger, PM's and other commodities would fall in price. This would happen in the short run but the question is what happens next? How will the government and US central banks react? Likely the printing presses would go full steam ahead.
Akis Tsochatzopoulos, former defense minister and Socialist party member (the Socialists have since kicked him to the curb). During his tenure as defense minister, Tsochatzopoulos reportedly took $26 million in bribes for assigning military contracts to rich buddies.
Head of Russian National Nuclear Risk Reduction Center announces that Russian inspectors will conduct an observation flight over Greece under the Treaty on Open Skies on February 9-13.
More:
http://tersee.com/#!q=greece&t=text
There is no plan B.
Plan B is in action it's calleed Blackmail.
Ze Germans need to make a good example of Greece, so they can push through a plan for full political and fiscal union under the conditions of an emergency. They know what they are doing.
Let's name that correctly: Blackmail
Harvey Organ: $4T in Greek Derivatives to Detonate in 10 Days - ENTIRE FINANCIAL WORLD WILL FALL LIKE DOMINOES!
http://www.silverdoctors.com/harvey-organ-4-t-in-greek-derivatives-to-detonate-in-10-days-entire-financial-world-will-fall-like-dominoes/
Your portrait of the "huge bet" is one possible explanation but not the only one. Syriza had "promised" to stay in the Euro and they are now fighting to deliver. If the fight is lost the might find themselves in a position where the could leave the Euro because they have been forced to.
Writedown 1.4 trillion Euros ah now there is some deflation, thats a lot of Euros that will not be available for buying gold.
Whos up for loaning Greece some money after the bust?
>>>
...now there is some deflation, thats a lot of Euros that will not be available for buying gold
<<<
Which is why gold is a very bad idea right now (another, less sophisticated reason is that the last large scale gold buyers were central banks).
Good ideas for Europeans might CHK, NKK, DKK, held as cash (small denomination notes) at a secret location (like an obscure hole in the ground).
Watson
F U Malakas
Greece? Who gives a shit? Smaller population than Bavaria and no economy to speak of...
Everything revolves around the margin. Greece is small but its impact will be immense contrary to what the BS tells you!
There is no legal way for Greece to get out of EU! OK Greek banks will go bankrupt and maybe the government and perhaps some businesses then all will have to start over within EU... it is that simple. No one in EU will want this to happen to them and this is the lesson that Germany is trying to teach the rest of EU...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zvl9N9GdraQ
Financial "Crisis" in Greece
(funny skit 5 min)
I got the hotel room for the Northwest Coin Show and now my nephew is coming and he makes decent money and likes his coins too. It will be epic. 39 days to go.
What many here obviously don't get; the €uro per se is not the goal of the quisling BrUSsel$ pedophile politburo of the Third World Fourth Reich bankster Washing town mob. The United States of Urupp, the stunted bastard twin, permanently lashed to the dead Mercan albatross of the United States of Chaos has always been the goal. Without the IOU petroscrip Saudi Mercan toilet paper €urodollah, BrUSsel$ and the Empire of Chaos and its NATO hit machine will get no farther than the Ukranian ditch in which the AngloZio Nazi nightmare is now drowning. To keep the AngloZio NAZI totalitarian project on line the €uro toilet paper illusion must be preserved...... until they are ready to try the IMF BIS SDR scam. If Greece doesn't cut off the stinking albatross from its neck someone else will.
Sieg Heil!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnd0nzeuM5s
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/feb/03/greece-finance-mini...
We don’t want bankers to be reassured by Varoufakis just now. We want them to be terrified. Don’t mess with me, he is saying. I have a sovereign electorate behind me, and I have a bankrupt country. When your banks go bankrupt you bail them out. When your businesses go bankrupt you write off their debts and let them start again. Do the same to me. Your banks have lent my country crazy sums of money, way beyond the bounds of caution or common sense. Now you honestly think you will get it back.
Oh those poor Greeks, getting loaned all that money by those big, bad, bankers! How dare they bail greece out of bankruptcy and expect Greece to actually make reforms and pay back the money! Something has to be done about these banker villains!
Correct.
Seems to be a lot of confusion here between the Euro and the EU. Greece can leave the Eurozone (Euro) without leaving the EU. Leaving the Euro, however, would greatly enahnce risk of default on 315 Euro loans, and more importantly, on the huge amount of derivatives attached to that. We live in interesting times.
The Greeks were not capable of producing all of their own food in the time of Pericles. Their countryside is beautiful but it is very dry and rocky. Back in the 70s, before all this EU stuff, Greeks were really, really skinny; they were still gathering wild herbs out in the hills as a real food source. Now they are eat hamburgers and pizza and have one of the highest obesity rates in the world (http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/greece-obesity/).
I don't see how they can be self-sufficient, and live without some sugar-daddy, unless they change their culture in a profound way. They are terrifed of going back to self-sufficiency and hunger and if you look at their history they have reason to fear.. Yes I know many there are hungry now, but there is hunger and hunger. Their culture is so corrupt that they don't trust one another to help in reform; they don't think it's possible; that's why so many of them want to stay in the EU. Good luck with that.
a shoot in your own knee, dear EU. € is FED and Bank of England construction, to control some folks. And it is good, what the Greeks say: if we go out, or if we are forced to go out, we shall take you with us to the hell. I see it the same way. Slovakia is in with 8bn Euros (every Euro-member was forced by Merkel to contribute and has assigned "his" number top down, this funny Euro fund to help Greece, money went to German and French banks.). Slovakia has a GDP of 72bn and annual budget of 17bn. The 8bn represent a 45% load on budget, or 9% of GDP. This will move the country to the verge of bankruptcy and definitely into a deep recession for decades. Very similar math is valid for other EU countries. Most of the heavily shaken, like Slovenia, Spain, Italy end even Germany, Austria Finland and Holland too. The 8bn are guarantees to support derivatives attached to Greek bailout loan, but should the ECB call-in the money covered by the guarantee, then it is the end.
Get rid of the weakest link and the chain is stronger ...
Get rid of the parasite [Troika] then Greece and rest of Europe will be stronger.
The 'finmin' is desperate and trying to spread fear. Greece will be the only ones who collapse.
completely agree. I dont gamble but i would call his bluff. Greece will become a failed state outside the EU. fine with me.
Oh those poor Greeks, getting loaned all that money by those big, bad, bankers! How dare they bail greece out of bankruptcy and expect Greece to actually make reforms and pay back the money! Something has to be done about these banker villains!
This man is a fool. Should Greece exit, which i believe they must, The Euro zone will be fine. Greece used to be part of the EMBI Index that JPM started in the 90s, much to their indignation, so somehow, JPM were persuaded to remove it. Clearly, JPM was right all along. The EZ should have allowed Turkey to enter, not these cry baby, lazy , tax cheating , Greek assholes. Fuck them. let them starve.
Varoufakis is neither a fool nor an idiot. He has been in the center of this debate for years and understands it as well as anyone. From 2011...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVxaTC7Qp44