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Private Property: The Only Solution To The Vaccine Controversy
Submitted by Robert Murphy via Mises Canada blog,
A measles outbreak in the U.S. has prompted a national debate over vaccinations, a debate that quickly turned ugly baby vaccinebecause both sides think they are protecting their children from harm. Some parents say that they should have the right to refuse vaccines if they think it is in their children’s best interest, while others argue that ill-informed parental views can be overridden by the State if the public health is at stake. When argued on the traditional battleground, the problem has no solution. As with school prayer, immigration policies, parade permits for controversial groups, or allowing the homeless in “public” libraries, here too there is no way to solve the problem except by letting private property owners set the rules on their land.
When couched in the standard statist framework, there are contradictory principles in the vaccination debate. For example, many parents have read research showing the potential dangers from various vaccines, and they think all things considered their kids will be safer without getting them. They recoil at the idea that the State can forcibly inject substances into their kids’ bodies in the name of the public welfare.
That’s fine, but I’m betting many of those same “anti-vaxx” parents agree with the principle of taxation, and some of them might even be willing to accept the military draft in cases of extreme national emergency. At least for these parents, it seems they don’t actually believe in the principle of the individual rejecting State encroachment. They just happen to disagree with most people on the balancing of the pros and cons of vaccines.
On the other hand, consider the parents (and others) who are outraged at the (allegedly) unscientific, selfish, and anti-social behavior of the anti-vaxxers. For those of this group who think the State should be able to compel vaccinations against the wishes of a child’s parents, I wonder: How far are they willing to push this principle? Should the State mandate diet and exercise routines for the nation’s children? What about religious or political views? After all, parents from religious households might not want their kids’ minds to be “infected” with the horrible ideas of atheism brought into the schools from other children, while skeptical parents might not want their children hearing on the playground that they’re bound for hell unless they repent. Likewise, parents who believe in democracy wouldn’t want their children hearing about fascism from other kids on the soccer team. Certain ideas are far more dangerous than the measles. But most Americans (at least) agree that in a free society, the State can’t mandate particular religious and political views, no matter how harmful those views might be when put into operation.
The only way to address these fundamental conflicts is to take the State out of the equation. Let private property owners set the relevant rules on their land. Privately run schools, daycare centers, youth clubs, and pediatricians can set their individual policies regarding vaccination requirements for participating children. Health insurance companies can decide if they will insist on vaccination in order for a newborn to remain on a parent’s plan.
Private property doesn’t eliminate conflict, but it is a necessary foundation for the peaceful resolution of very heated disagreements. Bringing the State into the picture will hurt all children.
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Homeschool. Win all around. Stop paying corrupt institutions with propaganda curriculum.
YRBMERGR Please read.
I am glad so fucking glad you don't get paid as a statistician.
I assume you work for the cable company as a customer service agent?
Pod.
Vaccinations are a false construct fertilized with greed and fools.
Parents this, parents that. Glad I'm no lnger a child and don't have idiots making all my decisions for me.
No children yet, huh? Life looks a bit different when you think of yourself as a parent, and stop thinking about dear ol' mum and dad.
I moved out at 18. I had a coworker with a sign on her wall that said "Teenagers: if you don't like the rules under this roof then move out and pay for your own roof". I walked over, pointed to her sign and said "best decision I ever made".
Onset of puberty should be adulthood. In this silly civilization it is postponed until the arbitrary number of age 21.
Define "adulthood". No, really. I think I understand your point. The draft was another example. You could involuntarily die for your country at 18 but you couldn't legally drink until you're 21.
Adulthood in contemporary society is about context. And apparently so is childhood. Longer expected lifetimes = longer portions of early life defined as childhood? In the meantime, we wind up with a fucked up gene pool, social retards running the country (into the ground) and nary an adult to be found, well, that isn't immediately run out of the room.
When this pendulum swings back the other way, heads will literally roll.
Unless the state needs you for their recreational wars for profit. Then in that case you're an 'adult' at age 18. Still can't drink a beer though. Pay taxes? Oh for THAT you're an 'adult' at 16!
Like I said on similar article yesterday, stop living in the past, fairness now trumps any rights you may think you have, and "protecting the public" is just another way of saying fairness.
And forget the "guilliotine" talk, I think it's obvious by now no revolution will ever happen.
Socialism has been shown to be unsustainable so no revolution is necessary.
Revolutions in thought occur long before the blood spills.
Typical divide and conquer, nobody bothers to wonder why the vaccine is not actually protecting the "vaccinated" children. Don't believe me, then lets looks at one of the main arguments for forced vaccinations, you have to vaccinate children so they don't infect vaccinated children.
So long as people STAY on private property i have no problem with what they do. Where i have a problem is when people come off private prooerty onto public property.
You can't suck AND blow.
Fill me in on all your proclivities and I will find a reason to exclude you from the public sphere.
And BTW, anyone who can't both suck and blow (in the most polite use of those terms) likely has some sort of physiological problem. I can suck on a straw or blow out a match equally well. Can't you?
Not only are our local homeless allowed unfettered access to the library, if even just to stay warm, they are allowed to look at porn all day on the computers because otherwise would be a restriction of free speech. Abolish public institutions, they are funded by moral hazards anyway.
We are offer free Krugman vaccinations against banksters and globalists on Q99x2.
Our government should NEVER be allowed to put stuff into our veins/bodies without our explicit consent. This applies to our little ones, too. If they believe we are too dangerous for public schools or institutions, than they need to provide us with an equal and fair "opt-out," such as private school tuition and museum days for the non-vaccinated.
The government's newest mandate is to ensure choice and diversity. That means that everybody must be compelled to do exactly the same thing. But thanks for playing.
. Smallpox vaccine seems to be nearly universally protective against the very fatal disease of smallpox, and use of vaccine led to the eradication of the disease in the wild. But the dirty little secret in recent outbreaks of mumps, measles and pertussis is – they are occurring in vaccinated people in highly vaccinated populations!
In 2006 an epidemic of mumps broke out in my state of Iowa. Ultimately, 11 states reported 2,597 cases of mumps. The majority of mumps cases (1,487) were reported from Iowa. As reported in “Mumps Epidemic – Iowa, 2006,” “Despite control efforts and a highly vaccinated population, this epidemic has spread across Iowa and potentially to neighboring states.” According to the CDC, “During the prevaccine era, nearly everyone in the United States experienced mumps, and 90 percent of cases occurred among children, although 97 percent of children entering school in Iowa had received two doses of MMR vaccine. ” Of note, this outbreak mostly occurred in young adults of college age who had received the vaccine. Only 6 percent of those affected were known to be unvaccinated, 12 percent received one dose of MMR vaccine, 51 percent had two doses of MMR vaccine, and 31 percent (mostly adults) were not sure of their immunization history.
In 2008-2009, Australia had epidemics of whooping cough and measles. Health authorities there must reveal the vaccination status of children in epidemics. Eighty-four percent of Australian children who got whooping cough were fully vaccinated, and 78 percent who got measles had record of measles vaccination.
In the 2010 outbreak of whooping cough in California, well over half the victims were fully vaccinated.
Whooping cough continuously declined in the U.S. from over 100,000 cases in 1922 to around 1978 when 2,063 cases were reported. That year, pertussis vaccine became mandated for school attendance. Beginning around 1995, when the U.S. had 5,137 cases, the incidence has increased, to 2012 when over 48,000 cases were reported, including 20 deaths. The majority of deaths were in newborns under three months of age. Why is this happening? It is not because people are not becoming vaccinated. The CDC says more than 84 percent of children under 3 years old have been vaccinated with four doses of pertussis vaccine. But the current vaccine does not include all strains of pertussis. And the most vulnerable to the disease – the small infants – are not able to take the vaccine. Since older children and adults are much less likely to die of whooping cough, the question that must be asked is this: Is vaccination effective in producing antibody transfer from mother to infant? Or is it better to allow the natural disease to occur?
MMWR (Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report) from the CDC and accessing the search engine for VAERS (Vaccine complication reporting site) at http://www.medalerts.org/vaersdb/index.php.
1. Since 2005 (and even before that), there have been no deaths in the U.S. from measles, but there have been 86 deaths from MMR vaccine – 68 of them in children under 3 years old. And there were nearly 2,000 disabled.
2. In countries which use BCG vaccinations against tuberculosis, the incidence of Type I diabetes in children under 14 is nearly double. (“Infectious Disease in Clinical Practice” no. 6 pages 449-454, 1997)
3. As reported in Lancet in 1995, inflammatory bowel disease (i.e. Crohn’s and ulcerative colitis) is 13 times more prevalent in persons vaccinated for measles.
4. In a nested case-control study within the General Practice Research Database (GPRD) in the United Kingdom, patients who had a first MS (Multiple Sclerosis) diagnosis recorded were compared with controls. The authors concluded that immunization with the recombinant hepatitis B vaccine is associated with a threefold increased risk of developing MS (Hernan et al., 2004). No increased risk of MS was associated with other vaccines, which included tetanus and influenza vaccinations.
5. In 1982 William Torch, a prolific researcher and publisher on Neurologic topics, presented a paper (later published) at the American Academy of Neurology reviewing SIDS deaths. He reported that in 100 consecutive cases, 70 percent of SIDS deaths occurred within three weeks of pertussis vaccination. In very convincing confirmation, a Japanese prefecture stopped vaccinating after associating SIDS with the pertussis vaccine. It is worth reading the entire description from Viera Scheibner, PhD:
In 1975, about 37 Crib Sudden Deaths were linked to vaccination in Japan. Doctors in one prefecture boycotted vaccinations, and refused to vaccinate. The Japanese government paid attention and stopped vaccinating children below the age of 2 years. When immunization was delayed until a child was 24 months of age, Sudden Infant Death cases and claims for vaccine related deaths disappeared. Japan zoomed from a high 17th place in infant mortality rate to the lowest infant mortality rate in the world when they stopped vaccinating. Japan didn’t vaccinate any children below the age of 2 years between 1975 and 1988, for 13 years. But then in 1988, Japanese parents were given the choice to start vaccinating anywhere between 3 months and 48 months. The Ministry study group studied 2,720 SIDS cases occurring between 1980 and 1992 and they established that their very low SIDS rate quadrupled.
6. A mail survey was done of 635 children in the Netherlands in 2004. German measles and whooping cough (pertussis) were twice as common in unvaccinated children. However, throat inflammations, ear infections, rheumatologic complaints, seizures and febrile convulsions were much more common in the vaccinated group. Aggressive behavioral episodes were eight times more frequent in vaccinated children, and sleep disordered more often. Tonsils were removed in 33 percent of children who had been vaccinated vs. 7.3 percent unvaccinated.
7. In 1947, the first reports of brain inflammation and chronic brain damage, including death, after pertussis vaccination began to be published (Brody, 1947; Byers and Moll, 1948, Low, 1955, Berg, 1958; Strom, 1960, 1967; Dick, 1967, 1974; Kuhlenkampff, 1974; Stewart, 1977, 1979). But it took more than 40 years of collective evidence before academic medicine decided it was true –1981 National Childhood Encephalopathy Study (NCES) and in 1991 and 1994 by the Institute of Medicine, National Academy of Sciences.
In 1991, after reviewing vaccine safety, the Institute of Medicine admitted, “In the course of its review, the committee encountered many gaps and limitations in knowledge bearing directly or indirectly on the safety of vaccines. These include inadequate understanding of the biologic mechanisms underlying adverse events following natural infection or immunization, insufficient or inconsistent information from case reports and case series, inadequate size or length of followup of many population based epidemiologic studies [and] few experimental studies published in relation to the number of epidemiologic studies published.”
Excellent post. You certainly point out some evidence showing problems with vaccines that needs to be considered. Using evidence and reason, you show that further research is needed concerning the effectiveness of vaccines.
Plus, not once did you mention the ZH magic cure-all for every problem facing mankind---more private property rights.
Mercury and autism: Accelerating Evidence?
Joachim Mutter*, Johannes Naumann*, Rainer Schneider*1, Harald Walach*1,2
& Boyd Haley3
Especially, in the U.S., the prevalence of autism became
endemic with an increase of about 5 in 10,000 to 60
in 10,000 after three additional thimerosal-containing
vaccines were introduced for newborns in the early
1990s, whereas in most other countries with a much
lower autism prevalence, like Germany or Denmark,
thimerosal in vaccines was reduced at the same time. In
California, the autism rate increased by 634% between
1987 and 2002, which cannot be attributed to shifts in
the interpretation of diagnostic criteria, migration or
improved diagnostic accuracies [3,4,9]. Other developmental
and behavioural disorders like attention deficit
disorders (ADD) or attention deficit hyperactivity
disorders (ADHD) have also increased up to 1 out of
every 6 children in the U.S. [10,11]. It should be noted
that in the 1990s, newborns until age of 6 months were
regularly exposed to a cumulative thimerosal dose of
187,5 µg [12].
Against this background it
is interesting to note that several scientists from the
FDA, NIH, and CDC may have been influenced by
vaccine manufacturers or dental boards [15, 20–24].
Despite this information, the Institute of Medicine of
the U.S. concluded recently that there is no relationship
between thimerosal and autism, and that no further
studies should be conducted to evaluate the relationship
between thimerosal and autism [25]. This was done in
spite of several biological studies reporting thimerosal
to have toxic properties that made it a major suspect for
the recent autism epidemic. There were no biological
studies presented that did not show major toxic effects
of thimerosal. Thus, it is pertinent to question why the
CDC committee suggested no further research and
emphasize the importance of carefully paying attention
to published and unpublished data and note pertinent
conflicts of interest.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Another recent study performed by Madsen et al.
[74] reported Danish autism rates of 6 per 10,000
for children born in the 1990s. These Danish rates
are very low in the 1990s compared to the U.S. [12].
Madsen et al. [69] report also inpatient rates for the
pre-1993 “psychosis proto-infantilis” at well below 1
per 10,000. This low rate would contradict the single
published survey of autism rates from Denmark,
which indicated an autism rate of over 4 per 10,000
as far back as the 1950s [75].
Additional confounders were present in the U.S.
with high prevalence of autism that were not present
in Denmark: Between 1970–92, the only childhood
vaccine given in Denmark until 5 months of age
was the monovalent pertussis vaccine. In the United
States, children were exposed to multiple doses of
diphtheria, pertussis, tetanus, polio, hepatitis B and
haemophilus influenza B (Hib) vaccines before five
months of age in the 1990s. Additionally, Denmark
did not administer thimerosal-containing Rho-D
immunoglobulin during pregnancy, which may
increase the risk for the development of autism [17].
The vaccine schedule for children
aged 5 and under has nearly tripled in 25 years. In 1983,
the Centers for Disease Control recommended 10
vaccines for this age group. Today, the
recommendation is 36 vaccines.
The United States mandates the most vaccines
in the Western world, double the average of the 30
countries studied. All countries with lower vaccine
mandates have better under 5 mortality rates and many
have materially lower autism rates.
United States 1 in 150, Iceland 11 vaccines, autism rate 1 in 1,100, Sweden 11 vaccines autism rate 1 in 862, Israel 11 vaccines, autism rate 1 in 1,000
AUTISM PREVALENCE in the United States has soared. In 1970, Treffert et. al. published the first known autism prevalence study in the United States, Epidemiology of Infantile Autism, with an autism prevalence rate of less than 1 per 10,000. In 1987, Burd et. al. published a study, A prevalence study of pervasive developmental disorders in North Dakota, showing an autism rate of 3.3 per 10,000. In 2007, the Centers for Disease Control’s Autism and Developmental Disabilities Monitoring Network released data showing that prevalence of autism had grown to 66 per 10,000 or 1 in 150, an increase of more than 6,000% from the 1970 study.
This study appears to lend credibility to the theory that the U.S. vaccine schedule is linked to the U.S. epidemic of autism, particularly when compared to the published autism rates of other countries. Urgent additional study is required.
The United States has a higher infant mortality rate than any of the other 27 wealthy countries, according to a new report from the Centers for Disease Control. A baby born in the U.S. is nearly three times as likely to die during her first year of life as one born in Finland or Japan. That same American baby is about twice as likely to die in her first year as a Spanish or Korean one.
Despite healthcare spending levels that are significantly higher than any other country in the world, a baby born in the U.S. is less likely to see his first birthday than one born in Hungary, Poland or Slovakia. Or in Belarus. Or in Cuba, for that matter.
Monsanto is the more likely culprit.
Whomever is most to blame, the basics are fraudulent junk science being done and relied upon because that is what makes the most money inside of fundamentally fraudulent financial accounting systems!
In addition to the sloppy science (and incorrect conclusions as to conclusions and real world applicability) - there are also economic drivers other than of the vaccine makers...
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-10-08/finally-here-come-banks-ebola-t...
Most of the studies (that the drug companies pay for) also seem to analyze single vaccines (ceteris paribus)... There are combinations both of ingredients and entire vaccines to factor in, particularly when you are giving small children batteries of multiple simultaneous vaccinations (which is much more difficult to properly quantify).
Back when they rolled out MMR over 40 years ago (I've heard from older relatives)- guys in medical school at the time still regarded autistics as circus freak aberrations that they "might not ever get another chance to see", and the spike in cases of autism seems a generation more recent...
As an adult I've done boosters for T/D and HAV & HBV and a separate typhoid in one day. Probably the worst was my first yellow fever and my first meningitis along with an MMR booster and polio booster. But I wouldn't subject a small child to all that toxic shit in a single day, much less a single year, but you have schools demanding annual flu vaccinations and all these newfangled (but probably benign in a vacuum) vaccines IN ADDITION TO all the other shit that everyone else grew up with... and then they try do as many at one time as possible to keep the per transaction labor and administrative costs down and the per-patient volumes up...
I AM AGAINST VACCINES!!!
/catches hepatitis in Mexico then claims there was no way to prevent it
When in doubt whether something's a right or a privilege, ask whether you can freely do to "them" what they do to you.
Obey Merck!
Was listening to this "energy medicine" mother interviewed on why she wouldn't vax her kid.
Big pharma, people die, ass burgers, not needed, I keep my kids healthy with alt medicine"
Then comes the question
"So what would you do if your son got measles?"
"Oh I'd take him to the hospital"
FUCK!
Right, because when you pay for a service you always do exactly what the provider tells you to do. Trying to make an informed choice about services offered is irrational. Service providers always have a complete understanding of your needs and they never make mistakes.
I got no problem if she doesn't get her kids vaccinated, but if they get sick she should deal with it. But no, she wants to rely on witchcraft to keep them healthy and when that fails she'll b-line to the local hospital and demand a fix. I see these jack asses all the time, they want to do whatever they want to do cause it's their choice and no one has the right to tell them, which I agree with, but they're fucking spineless because as soon as something goes wrong they're screaming to know who's coming to help them out.
If you want to not vaccinate and they get sick, cool, but have the fortitude to take it all the way. Keep 'em quarantined in your own house until it passes or they croak.
Seen similar with Xtian fundies who decry medical SCIENCE. I knew one who got pneumonia and did what you said, straight Bee-line to the ER. I had hoped she'd never give up prayer and crawl begging to the local ER to prescribe antibioticis when it goes from bad to worse.
The faithful believer in Jesus finally did go to the ER, ended up with drip of third-generation cephalosporin and intubated.
But you see, Jesus opened the skies and bags of IV antibiotics fell from them! It was never science!
Thy hypocrisy is amazing.
How is hypocrisy? Why isn't prayer for these people something that they're allowed to do as well as hard science? It's not like she tied you down and prevented you from going to the hospital - did she? It's amazing how people with hard-ons for the state and establishment institutions completely lose their thinking.
Btw, you didn't give the full story - how much money did the hospital rob from this lady when she probably didn't even have a serious disease? She got intubated? She had penumonia and then voluntarily went to the hospital and wound up intubated? Sounds like a very caring system. Jesus opened up the skies and bills of 100s of $1000s of dollars fell from them - it was never corporatocracy in the guise of "prograssive" statism and science!
I hope that is /sarc
As a lawyer, I advise people on matters which, ostensibly, impact the larger populus depending on which choice they take. That is, choosing to take this or that action may move money outside of the US, avoid tax revenues, or reduce a job for an American. I tend to think that these consequences, which are occuring every minute of every day - add up to quite a bit more than a measles outbreak. However, if someone makes a choice in the interest of their own liberty which increases the risk for others, if something goes wrong as a result - I wouldn't ever expect them to simply suck it up and eat it "until...they croak". What idiocy! Your presentation is basically that either you have to buy in to statism or reject it full-force - there certainly isn't room in your mind for making a balanced set of choices. Hell - if you're not in jail for avoiding taxes, then you deserve forcible injection of antigens into your body by the state...what idiocy.
That is one fucked up line of reasoning there.
"I got no problem if she doesn't get her kids vaccinated, but if they get sick she should deal with it."
Yeah, because it's your natural right to tell others how to live their lives. You just can't get past your desire to control other people, can you?
"in a free society"
ruined the whole argument right there. America has never been a free society, at least, not since the establishment of the state.
anyone who thinks 'Americans' have ever lived 'free' in any sense of the world is even more fucking delusional than the whoever is holding up the US stock market.
The Mises Institute of Canada continues to lower the bar of intellectual discussions ... For anyone who may be interested, here is a link to my overview of the vaccination issues, which was orginally written back in 2009: Question the disease diagnosis: bioweapons?
Basically:
Medicine is inside the money system, which is inside the military system. Medicine can not make much sense outside of the context of human ecology. However, real human ecology is tangled up in the history of militarism, in which success was based on deceits, and spies were the most important soldiers. That became the foundation for the monetary system to be based on enforced frauds, and for medicine to become primarily a Profit From Disease System.
Better medicine takes better human ecology. (The benefits attributed to so-called vaccinations have been grossly oversold and misrepresented.) The pithy paradox is that the central feature of human ecology are the death controls which limit human lives. Better human ecology necessarily requires better death controls. However, the actual death controls have developed through history to be most socially successful when done through the maximum possible deceits, which drove the creation of a monetary system based on enforced frauds, inside of which was a medical system perverted to the maximum possible degree, primarily due the basic mechanisms of the funding of the political processes driving vicious spirals of the profits from frauds being reinvested in more frauds.
Although there are some abstract theoretical merits in the notions that one could teach the immune system, the actual implementation of that has been as crazy and corrupt as it could possibly become, due to that developing inside of the overall context of a Profit From Disease System, operating through a fundamentally fraudulent financial accounting system, backed up by the methods of organized crime operating the most crucial death controls in the most deceitful manner possible.
And then there is the percentage of us with autoimmune diseases, most probably caused by the triggers put into our bodies by vaccines. Why is no one on this thread mentioning the negative effects of vaccines - I only hear a rights based discussion regarding the balancing of freedom to choose and risk of catching measles. What about RISK OF AUTOIMMUNE DISEASE AND CHRONIC INFLAMMATION!!
Yes!
The increasingly overwhelming barrage of vaccinations that children are receiving appears designed to backfire. There are some terrible reasons to believe that is deliberate. Every individual or family whose lives are destroyed by autoimmune diseases, or autism, is another group which probably will not be able to have enough surplus time and energy to resist being enslaved by the established systems.
The ruling classes WANT the people they rule over to be kept sufficiently sick and/or stupid, to not be able to effectively resist. The overall war against the consciousness that the rulers wage against those they rule over appears to include deliberate poisoning.
The paradox of
final failure from too much success.
As to the vaccine dilemma, if your kid gets vaccinated and another kid doesn't and your kid doesn't get measles and the other does or doesn't, every one got what they bargained for, so what's the dilemma?
My view of this as a volunteer fireman and EMT is that with vaccinations, like finance, it's all about risk. Everyone weighs his risks before placing his bets in life. As far as vaccines go they are in no way a silver bullet against disease, at most they will alert your immune system to a biological threat. Hardly any guarantee. If your immune system is weak all bets are off. There are other risks to vaccines, for example quality and effectiveness to which the arguments are many and certainly each vaccine carries it's own unique risks and rewards. In a post such as this one argues that the risk outweighs the rewards to the degree that society should reject universal requirements for vaccinations.
Personally when I answer a fire call I come into your home and deal with you in your most inopportune moment in life. You are most likely trying to die and bleed, shit, puke and curse all over me while I try to keep you alive regardless of what your moral objection to vaccines are. So in my case I get all the vaccines I feel are safe and reliable so I can save you all regardless of your moral obligation to the rest of society. Please understand my selfish responsibility to myself and my family to survive.
Sometimes I think you are all just afraid of the doctor and needles from birth, probably justified in some cases, but never the less I will be coming for you someday when you are least expecting it.
P.S. I'm a libertarian
I find your desire to provided forcible resuscitation services to be highly suspect. Can't you find any guys who want to kiss you on purpose?
No but my liberterian in me allows me to let you die in your car wreck if that is what you want. And by the way fuck you.
Clickbait.
Vaccinations at the barrel of a gun, what's next Zyklon B.
Being stupid is the barrel of the gun. What's next is stupids fucking shit up.
Listen you fucking statist prick, I decide what's best for my family and I, not the state. I pay my taxes because of the threat of violence by the state, and I ask for and take nothing from the state but to be left alone. But when it comes to me and my family, just try and force your poision on us.
Ah the arrogance - it's quite a breeze....
The state has hundreds of years of research, and the current collective knowledge of all the scientists, doctors and researchers they employ. What do you have to 'decide' what is best for your children? A few badly told myths handed down from yer grandmother and a sterilised emergency surgery set?
Your ability to 'decide' is countered by the fact that you know fuck all.
writings U are so self assured that all that science is fact not fiction or er fudged numbers? do U understand the bell curve? did U take this yrs flu vaccine? much less than effective by data, but I bet you think well it will mitigate the severity of the flu strain it has no effect on..right.
don't know how long you been around this game of science being above it all, but pal it's also many times a racket.
"Your ability to 'decide' is countered by the fact that you know fuck all."
And their ability to decide is countered by the fact that they can not have my interest more at heart than I do myself. You want me to believe people in power can be trusted to act in my/our best interest just because they say so ? This is ZH, not sheeple hedge.
I read your shit and the only thing I could think of was South Park's Cartman sayin "I do wha I want!". Go ahead in your fight in stupidity about stupidity through stupid means and arguments. Go ahead, don't vaccinate your chirrun. And pray away the disease, specially if they get polio or develop cancers later on life because of HPV, or get hepathitis, or smallpox or rabies or tetanus. You know what it's best, even though it's stupid as you are. Your stupidity trumps over a hundred years of cumulative scientific knowledge about disease. Way to go, back to the dark ages.
Oh Tyler, either you're doing this for the hits or you're really going senile.
For a second I was about to write tons of arguments against the bullshitness of this article. But I desist. You just can't fight dumb. And between the dumbest around here are the Mises Canada guys and the stupid idiots who believe their crap. Idiocracy is here.
Immah gonna push that "save" button which according to "alleged" science, sends messages through a series of TUBES DUDE! and post this crap on a crappy post. ZH's going doooown.
"You just can't fight dumb."
You couldn't fight dumb so you joined it? I've never seen anyone act so self righteously about the stupidity of others who was at such a loss to come up with anything resembling a grammatically or semantically coherent statement.
Guess I've been around people who read the Mises blog too much. I'm becoming a stupid too.
Vaccination programs only work if a very high percentage of the population are vaccinated.
In those vaccinated the vaccine does not work in some people but as long as a very high percentage is vaccinated the program still works.
Measles has made a come back in the UK due to low uptake of the MMR.
Those who take the risk can find their children contracting measles due to those parents that have hoped their children are safe due to everyone else being vaccinated.
Really it is being selfish, but that is today's world.
You want others to vaccinate their children even if they find it to be objectionable because you fear for your own health and safety. If selfishness is a sin you just qualified for a go 'round in purgatory.
Let's get back to Victorain child death rates by abandoning scientific advances.
Everyone needs to have lots of children because only a few will survive into adulthood.
Let's limit couples to one child like China does. After all, it's government's job to make such decisions.
And BTW, you're continued instance that others bend to your will in raising their children remains a selfish desire no matter how you try to divert the argument. Confront your hypocrisy and deal with it.
The tetanus argument is a good one (above).
When your child gets a cut from a rusty nail (or similar) only your child would get tetanus.
Would you vaccinate them?
Why even ask such a question? Isn't it your position that children should be strapped to a conveyer belt and perforated automatically? The issue at hand is not the efficacy of any particular medical procedure but rather an individual's right to chose which medical procedures will be performed upon himself and his children.
Or we could just let some of the children die, jus'sayin.
Thank you for the lesson in logical non sequitur.
Of course, in order for your fear-mongering to work, you have to travel back over a century. Because, of course, if you only went back HALF that distance, you would find a time when medical advances and understanding had already reduced the death rate of measles to virtually zero, and a vaccine was not the reason.
The funny thing is all the sophisticated posters here never bring up Tetanus - a disease that usually doesn't spread from human to human, but is contracted when you scratch yourself on a rusty nail or similar.
Would they all also skip those vaccinations?
It's not funny at all.
It may seem odd to YOU, because you lack correct premise. You - in your ignorance - think you "know" something, which in fact you do not. You simplistically assume "if", and "then", but are missing a whole bunch of "and ifs".
Wow, now that's a sophisticated fact-free rebuke!
Now please tell me if you have stopped taking/refreshing Tetanus vaccinations.
For which they routinely vaccinate you AFTER you step on a rusty nail when it is too late to do any good.
Then go ahead and reject those after-the-incident measures, if you believe to know exactly that it is too late to do any good!
The good thing for bystanders is if you contract that, it's difficult for you to infect others.
To take vaccines one has to trust the US government, the corporate owned news media, and the multinational drug companies that are free from liability for their products. Also you would not have to have done any research.
Do an internet search on SV40.
By the way folks: There is NO measles outbreak. More "FUD for folks" so as to benefit empire.
They say that this started at Disneyland, a place that cycles thousands of people through their gates each day, most of whom are only one time visitors, and all are from disparate locations around the nation, and world. Then measles takes 10 to 12 days to incubate, produce symptoms. So, unless thousands of people came together at Disneyland, got measles, and then hung out for 10 to 12 days, I'm not buying it.
And now they want us to believe that the measles are spreading here and there all willy-nilly around the nation, and within relatively low density population centers.
Last, as always, they want us to believe that the DC US is about to be wiped out by some plague, while other places with much higher population densities, and filth, go unscathed.
Whatever. Just another bout of Zionism.
The banksters need to repay us.
I'm libertarian. I'm a parent. I vaccinated my kids for everything I got when I was a kid in the 80s. None of the hep or hip or chicken pox or there's another one that's ridiculous. Oh, and fuck the flu shot, anyone with a brain knows that's a fraud.
It's not about being pro or anti vax. I'm anti-government compulsion. Vaccination rates are still like 96%. They are cheap. Most insurance companies gladly cover them. And you can barely find a pediatrician that will accept you as a patient if you refuse. There's no epidemics of any of these diseases. I credit a lot of things going right at least in American society for that.
So what to do? Nothing. Right now works just fine. Hopefully the medical science will advance to develop more vaccines to wipe out more diseases over time.
"So what to do? Nothing. Right now works just fine."
This is not an option, as TPTB have deliberately decided to make this a point of contention. They have artificially stoked the embers of fear, fanned the flames of ignorance, and used the smoke of "theory" (herd immunity) to cover their motives.
You are correct, of course...there is no thing that needs to be done about this. But that won't stop them from doing it. And they will use the cover of dimwitted rabble to do it.
By definition, Statists do not recognise Private Property.
When you accede to voting, you embrace the notion that every "oik" has an equal say in the disposition of your property.
Right there and then, you have given up your "property rights.
So where's the revolution of taking back your property and additional rights you non-voters have?
What property do you think you 'own'? - the land stolen from the native indians and handed down to you by your theiving forefathers?
Land is "owned" by whomever can occupy and defend it. Have you read any history? Do you think that property rights issues started with the red skins?
And property encompasses more than just land.
I can picture it now:
StatistFuck: "Om nom nom good sandwich is good!"
Thug: "Lemme grab that mid-bite yo. Bitch!" *smack*
SF: "Ho hum, better move along because who am I to claim that sandwich was mine?? It cannot be so, as private property does not exist!"
Don't worry, this idiot's bullshit is too thick for even him to believe it.
Where do you live? I'd like to have all "your" stuff.
Dolt.
Oops, I just bought all of the early 1960s Roosevelt dimes off one website that I do business with. I know that those coins are ugly but these are BU. I had to buy a roll of 1946-S BU Washington quarters. Mintage is only 4,204,000. That roll cost me dearly but so what?
How about we fix the fucked up debt money first?
Here's my question: Why do people who have been vaccinated fear those who have not?
Isn't that a completely irrational fear?
By definition, they (and their children) would be immune to the disease - why would they even care if someone else didn't make the same choice?
My guess is sheep syndrome. Too bad there's not a vaccination for that.
Because you are ignorant, Vaccines do not give complete protection. It is the force of having everyone vaccinated that helps stop a virus from spreading. The higher the percentage vaccinated the greater the chance if it does arise that it dies out quickly.
Alas, it is YOU who are ignorant....and illogical...and easily led astray by shallow theories that appeal to your intellectual laziness. It is turds like you that make 'democracy' inherently dangerous, necessitating the 'eternal vigilance' of thinking individuals.
So besides calling me ignorant, you're basically stating that vaccines are for the common good.
I love this line: "the force of having everyone vaccinated" ... double entendre?
I'm in the medical field, and I find it down-right medeival that neither doctors nor scientists have any idea what causes alzheimer's or autism.
Even worse, they don't even know what the physical indicators are for either one - they rely strictly on behavioral observations to diagnose both. You trust these people injecting mecury-laced deadly diseases in your body? I don't.
CDC says flu vaccine only 9% effective for seniors
In Russia childhood vaccinations are entirely voluntary and income tax is only 13%! And GM food is banned.
Sounds like a libertarian paradise
Nah, there is still a gubmint. Somalia is the true Libertarian pair-o-dice. Every man for himself and the biggest gun wins!
"1. Since 2005 (and even before that), there have been no deaths in the U.S. from measles, but there have been 86 deaths from MMR vaccine – 68 of them in children under 3 years old. And there were nearly 2,000 disabled."
This is an amusing use of satistics to "prove" a point. Oooh, 86 deaths! Quick! Stop the vaccines!
We should stop all medical treatment since it leads to many more deaths than a mere 86 (surgery-related, infections, side-effects). And we must not use that eveil chemotherapy any more either! It makes people bald!
Spot the irony, win a prize!
I'll start vaccinating my 3 children,when the Border Patrol starts quarantining the million illegals streaming annually into our country..
Don't vaccinate your children. We need the room for Hispanic immigrants who really know how to work hard.
When I was growing up, measles was commonplace. We even had measle parties. Nobody died. You suffered a headache, rash and occsionally pain in the eyes. After a couple of days you were back on your feet, and importantly you had permanent immunity from measles forever.
More people die from the measles vaccine than die from measles itself. The most important thing is to have a healthy immune system -the human body is equipped to deal with most childhood diseases on its own.
same with chicken pox. Get it while you're young, it's easier to get over, as getting it over 30 (ish?) will be much worse for immune system to fight.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fta6oEM3h1U
shingles
More killer Libertarian shit. Shooting a Llbertarian is always self defense.
This message sponsored by Pfizer. Or Merck. Take your pick.
Vaccines work alright, in SPREADING the fucking viruses. Documented fact.
What a child needs is a healthy immune system. Something that one does NOT get from eating corporate food. Fuck pharma and the author of this propaganda piece.
R v W makes your body private property.
Republicans insist this should be changed.
Being BORN makes your body private property. THIS is the fact that the author sadly seems to miss.
More people have commented on this story than have gotten measles.
That's some outbreak.
The fact that only a hundred or so have gotten measles is irrelevant. The important thing to remember is that, like the flu vaccine, the measles vaccine can overnight grow into a multi-billion dollar market.
Just kidding. Big Pharma is planning to give the vaccines away because they love "The Children."
I suspect a trust issue with the governmet.
That's a wee understatement.
if the lying mass-murdering psychopaths in the USG recommend vaccinations, that's good enough for me !
Why don't we force all of our kids to just drink colloidal silver, problem solved.
Oops sorry FDA, I forgot about your trillions of dollars. Sure, vaccinate, whatever is the most profitable to drive that S&P over a googagillion.
It will soon be law, and their reason will be accepted without any problem whatsoever, and if you disagree, you'll be the outcast full of 'hatred' somehow to children.
colloidal silver ?? not a fan, for what we are talking- might as well hang garlic around your neck ..silver has some very good effect on non systemic infections (topical use)..prevention of viral infections I think not.
So does this mean private property owners can make recently vaccinated individuals liable if they shed the diseaae and spread it?
It's all a numbers game laddie and you're a number.
Lol - is this what passes for 'logic' in the immoral support of 'private' property? Gosh what a wheeze, and such a contradiction.
So lets ask Mr Private property what the consequences are when I use my 'right' not to vaccinate (on my property) - and then go into town for some supplies, and carrying a disease I infect and kill hundreds?
Did nobody tell you that no man is an island?
Did nobody tell you that NOBODY can own what was not theirs to begin with?
ZH should remove this article now - before it becomes too embarrassing.
I think this alarmist statement sums it up.
Bringing the State into the picture will hurt all children.
...by that margin we should ignore scientists who have brought us penecillin as there is a chance it could kill us!
What a flat earther you are - come into the modern world and see the wonders of science.
idiot
Oh - and one more thing, a lot of people are (rightly) suspicious of 'big pharmacy' - well how do you think 'big parmacy' came into existence? Ah that would be the PRIVATE and INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY LAWS which allowed them to gain and maintain thier power.
...the very concept this writer is arguing will 'solve' the problem.
Wrong, 100 years ago there were hundreds of pharmaceutical companies. The FDA only allows multi billion dollar companies to get drugs approved. The SEC has allowed consolidation to just a few companies.
This is why the small start UPS have been pushed offshore.
Today more people in the US die from the MMR than measles. This is pure fact published on CDC.gov, so why should you get the MMR.
The flat-eathers were the popular science crowd of their day. And just like today they attacked anyone who doesn't buy into their beliefs.
Doctors were putting leaches on us 150 years ago. Just twenty years ago they told us fat, not carbs made use gain weight. About 50% of cardio knawledge has been overturned in 20 years.
The word science means to study, we don't study gravity becausewe accept it as law. I don't think there is any comparison between antibiotics and vaccines. If you have a disease fight it with all available tools, very different from mandatory prevention.
"Today more people in the US die from the MMR than measles. This is pure fact published on CDC.gov, so why should you get the MMR."
No, this is pure bullshit you pulled straight out of your ass and then went on to actually call other people "flat-earthers" without a trace of irony. Link or shut the fuck up.
"The word science means to study, we don't study gravity becausewe accept it as law."
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/6a/22/ec/6a22ec1372350bb647575...
http://i.ytimg.com/vi/1IkGj5Ghgm4/hqdefault.jpg
https://warosu.org/data/biz/img/0001/85/1394137913477.jpg
If you carry a disease downtown, infect and kill hundreds then you are a zombie.
Pssst, penicillin isn't a vaccine.
You are an illogical, unthinking, alarmist, statist, deceiving, twerp.
Edit - I will add chickenshit to the name-calling, as it appears you fear downvotes.
So from what I gather I should expect an outbreak of Polio? How does vaccinating my child from Hep A stop massive outbreaks?
A few months ago, the courts have declared that a woman with Ebola could not be quarantined. If Ebola is 60% fatal and chickenpox is 0.1% fatal what is the argument for the state to compel people to take medical advice that they don't agree with?
All these cities where measeles are popping up..... I wonder if they recently had an influx of people from Mexico, Somlia or some other foreign land?
The author is a fuckin idiot. We place constitutional restrictions on our representatives for the purpose of maintaining our liberties. So lets just find a way to walk around those restrictions by allowing the individual to do directly that which those that exercise our soverenty for us are prohibited from doing directly.
And thus, under the guise of free will, those that decide that vaccines are poison will be isolated to the point of unemployment, denial of medical care, ect. In other words, ISOLATE those that refuse to conform and let nature take its course. Delusions of utopia from another tyrant.
Yes.
Considering the supposed 'libertarian' source venue, and all the reference to private property, the author ignores the FIRST private property.
I'm sorry, exactly where did the author said all that? So your solution to the potential embarrassment, loss of job, denial of medical care etc, is to empower a small group of people to use violence, threats of incarceration and theft to prevent it?
Huhhh???
The ignorance surrounding the history and science of vaccines is appalling even among many who seem to project that they are 'in the know' .
It's amazing how many adults are taken in by the concept of herd immunity. Despite their own kids being vaccinated, these adults believe unvaccinated children pose a threat to their vaccinated children because they believe they could be carriers of disease.
Of course the elephant in the room is that if your children are so immune from disease because they are now vaccinated, then why are you afraid of carriers.
The even larger misconception is the idea that if idealy if an entire population can be vaccinated - then there will be no more carriers and therefore the disease can be erradicated from the world. Seemingly rational adults actually believe this disinformation from our so called learned authorities.
In a survey of 22,000 Amish children who are typically unvaccinated, only 4 cases of autism was discovered. Three were vaccinated and one lived near a chemical plant. That should raise alarms but this survey is suppressed in the media by the same people who are allowing cupric acid pesticide in infant formula.
The truth is - vaccines, GMOs, poison-based food and fluoridated water is part of a vast poisoning campaign by our hidden Fed rulers to handicap the public and disable any possible threat to their absolute parasitic power.
Stupid is as stupid posts. Because vaccines aren't 100% effective. The more people vaccinated the least chances for the disease to spread. There's never a 100% certainty in nothing except death and taxes. There are chances.
Revenues from bad theories never stopped us before. We are putting up more wall calendars and giving out pens with our tier 1 drug names on them to get the "word" out. Please take our vaccines and bring society into the Utopia it deserves. That's all now.
Sorry doc, on this one you are wrong. The difference between the state run public schools and a private school demanding you vaccinate your child is violence from the state vs choice from the private school.
If the private school demands yo vaccinate you are free to move your children to a private school that does not.
If the government school demands you vaccinate, you have a choice to obey or have Child Protective Services take your kids away.