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Tomorrow Greece Decides: Europe... Or Russia
There was much confusion earlier today surrounding the immediate fate of Greece, when first thing in the morning Bloomberg reported a rumor that the European Commission would grant Greece a 6 month extension, sending futures surging, and then several hours later, futures surged some more when Germany's finance minister crushed the first rumor, saying "it was wrong" and that without a Greek program, it was "all over."
Which means that the only relevant overnight news when stripping away the endless trial balloons and BS that Europe covers itself with before every important economic summit, was what the Greek defense minister said as reported by Reuters, namely that Greece now has a Plan B if Europe refuses to budge - the same "plan" we hinted last month:
Greek Defence Minister Panos Kammenos said that if Greece failed to get a new debt agreement with the euro zone, it could always look elsewhere for help.
"What we want is a deal. But if there is no deal - hopefully (there will be) - and if we see that Germany remains rigid and wants to blow apart Europe, then we have the obligation to go to Plan B. Plan B is to get funding from another source," he told Greek television show that ran in to early Tuesday. "It could the United States at best, it could be Russia, it could be China or other countries," he said.
In other words, a threat that if Europe doesn't need Greece (as the EuroStoxx50 and S&P500 are so giddy to confirm), then Greece also doesn't need Europe for the only reason it has needed it for the past 6 years: to provide funding.
Not only that, but Greece would also promptly default on debt held by the ECB and launch the contagion that UBS described earlier, with the only question being how quick it would spread across what is left of the European "Union" and Eurozone.
Western observers were certainly not amused at the Greek comments. As Newsweek reported, Dr Jonathan Eyal from defence and security think tank the Royal United Services Institute (RUSI) called Kammenos’ statement an “unbecoming threat from a NATO member state.”
He told Newsweek: “It’s another reminder that the Greeks have never offered the kind of solidarity to Europe that Europe has shown to Greece.”
“It’s very obvious the Russians have an opportunity to subsidise a country that can stop a consensus that is required to keep up sanctions on Russia. It’s very grave indeed. The repercussions of this could be quite serious depending on what Greece do in return.”
This would lead to the unthinkable: should Greece pivot to Russia it would permit Putin to build Russian bases on NATO soil!
Eyal was not impressed: "It’s possible although it’s a farfetched. If you were to see Russian bases in NATO territory it would obviously raise serious concerns." Or, as Putin would call it, victory. Of course, just because on the surface this possibility appears "farfetched" is why the western punditry is refusing to completely ignore it.
We bring this all up because as everyone by now knows, tomorrow night is the emergency Eurogroup meeting when, among other things, Greece will ask for a bridging loan to cover funding needs until August, something which Germany has already suggested is a non-starter, and yet hopes remain that somehow a compromise will emerge. Furthermore, while there are future meetings in the immediate future, as a reminder Europe's 10 day ultimatum to approve the bailout program is ticking, and runs out just in time for the next meeting, after which all bets will be off. So for all intents and purposes, tomorrow is when Greece must get some much needed clarity on what happens next: whether Europe is ready to compromise or, if not, consider Plan B.
And while most are aware of all of the above, it is the Plan B aspect which few have considered. It is here that as Kathimerini reported yesterday, things are indeed getting serious, to the point where one may be forced to even think about the "unthinkable."
As Greek Kathimerini reported, "Greece's Foreign Minister Nikolaos Kotzias is to visit Moscow on Wednesday to hold talks with his Russian counterpart Sergei Lavrov, Russia's Interfax and TASS news agencies reported on Monday citing a source in the Russian Foreign Ministry."
In other words, at precisely the same time as the FinMin is in Brussels discussing the fate, or lack thereof, of Greece in the Eurozone, the new Greek foreign minister will be in the Kremlin, getting instant updates from Brussels and perhaps discussing the fate of Greece in the Eurasian Economic Union.
Which means that as soon as tomorrow night, if the Eurozone is indeed intent on kicking Greece out as some have suggested, we may know if not Russia but Europe is who suddenly becomes more "isolated", as one of its current member flips allegiance to the man most hated by the entire "developed" world.
Or put in the simplest of terms, tomorrow Greece will decide: Europe, or Russia.
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EUROPE = AUSTERITY
RUSSIA = STARVATION
Not rocket science
Kotzias shouldn't advertise his travel plans. We're still looking for any remnants of MH370...
Is this good for American stocks?
you did not get the memo ?
good or bad news stawks goes up
machines are still running, aren't they? until someone literally pulls the plug on the machines, stocks will go up
I'm just going to come out and say it. I predict an assasination in the not-too-distant future. These new Greek leaders just aren't taking the hint.
Nobody's rung my phone to line up the nail gun job yet, but it wouldn't surprise me.
How do you say "Pootie-Poot" in Greek?
Greece, Russia, Kazakhstan together in one Union?
Who is the most bancrupt of the lot?
Obama wishes he had his own Lavrov but instead he's stuck with that fucking idiot Susan Rice
they deserve each other
fun show zh. ! the che guavera of greece is a fine fellow over his head in a shark tank.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCgZxrf8nrU
Europe or Russia?!
Fuck that, let's just make Greece the 58th US state.
It was Mutti's choice,
and Greece is toast.
"Plan B is to get funding from another source,"
Legalize drugs and tax the hell out of it...
There's your plan B...
Is working in Colorado...
The Euro is peddled as debt for eternity. The Ruble is offered as credit without interest. Not a difficult decision.
'They' don't give a flying fucking shit about us...
Choose China.
If the freedom of speech is taken away then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter.
George Washington
Pravda: Putin Threatens to Release Satellite Evidence of 9/11
Flip a trillion dollar coin.....
i would respond to you ekm that :
starvation under the sun is always better than austerity at -30°C
Said the 33rd Degree Freemason who allowed the international banking syndicate to undermine our republic in 1791 by siding with the British spy, Alexander Hamilton, and signing the charter for the the first fractional reserve bank of the US.
Talk is cheap. Washington was no hero. Jefferson and Burr were.
The foolish and wicked practice of profane cursing and swearing is a vice so mean and low that every person of sense and character detests and despises it.
George Washington
Russia is solvent, has gas, and does not install and support genocidal Zionist and Nazi psychopaths. Most importantly, Russia could extend a line with the promise of payment built into the price of reliable future gas imports over a period of years, a recipe for some measure of real economic stability. NATO and the Troika, on the other hand, seem hellbent on pushing LAYER UPON LAYER OF NEVERENDING DEBT, "AUSTERITY" (breaking the nation and subjugating the populace by stripping what's left of the real economy) and the prospect of turning the Greek countryside into a PUNCHING GROUND FOR THE WAR THAT THEY WANT SO DESPERATELY. Gee. Ummm. Which side would I choose? Need some time to think this through...
Fantastic warm water ports for Vlad. Winning!
-
Profanity is more necessary to me than is immunity from colds.
Mark Twain
Fuck you, and the shit eating whorse you rode in on George.
(no offence meant Kamehameha)
Slave -> Finally a comment based on reality for this thread. BRICS banks have 200 billion set for taking in Greece usury free. This is a no brainer, and a win-win for Greece and BRICS.
Awful lot of snow around runways this time of year, not sure i'd hop in a plane
I'd be a lot more worried about European and US malls, subways, bridges and landmarks.
If the elite don't do a false flag over this, I'll be surprised.
" flips allegiance to the man most hated by the entire "developed" world " Is he talking about BarryO ??
Russia, Russia, Russia. Oh pleeeeeease, Greeks, do me the favor. If you guys leave the Euro and the EU I never will post the truth about you here, i promise.
all the ways they are corrupted?
Actually, he's stuck with that fucking idiot John Kerry, so far as foreign ministers/secretaries of state are concerned.
But he got rid of HRC, so you'd probably have to rate this as a win for the USA.
Susan Rice and Joe Biden, the scape goat and the old nag, chewing on straw.
And don't forget "Fuck the EU!" neo-nazi supporter Nuland.
What a rabble!
Ofall, the lot.
"Greece, Russia, Kazakhstan together in one Union?
Who is the most bancrupt of the lot"
According to the downvotes- none of the above-..........................................ITS YOU.
Wow, you're dumb.
DYODD.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_future_gross_government_debt
You're upsetting the Kazakhs here!
EU will kick the can and Greece will gladly accept.
Everything else is bravado....
But who will pay for all the communist election promises?
Certainly not the other european nations.
Either Syriza will have to break all their promises or they leave.
"who will pay for election promises"???!!? payment would imply the promises would be implemented.
You do not live in a democracy do you. let me give the simple explination: They lie to get elected and then they lie to stay elected. er go, syriza will break their promise.
But then the EU will have to kick the can four more times: Spain, Portugal, Italy and eventually France.
But then the EU will have to kick the can four more times
There is no alternative if the EU is to survive....can kicking = more money printing and the party continues.
Do not expect any of these people to make the hard decisions
Plans or desires of these people will soon be irrelevant.
me neither. at this point they might really want to make a statement.
Special Executive for Counter- intelligence, Terrorism, Revenge and Extortion (SPECTRE)
An assassination of Varoufakis or Tsipras would IMMEDIATELY lead to WW3. Surely not even the dimwits in Washington DC would consider that.
DavidC
No, they would NOT consider that an assassination of Varoufakis or Tsipras would IMMEDIATELY lead to WW3.
They are masters of their own imaginations.
Skynet is self aware. It has already secured alternate sources of electricity.
<<<<<<<<<<<Grexit tomorrow
<<<<<<<<<<< No Grexit
Alex, I'll take "Grexit" for 500?
Question: Date the Greeks finally took back their country from The ECB?
Answer: What is 2/11/15?
No good. Can't make that date sum to 23 in any combination.
Have you tried Common Core math?
What does a Common Core math graduate say?
Paper or plastic?
it says 2.11.15=
2+11= 13
15 -5 (for no apparent reason other than its what you want) = 10
13 + 10 = 23
Problem solved!
-Common Core
this will not be decided 2/11. (got til 2/16, then 2/28) - it will drag on with moar rumors and trial ballons til the sky is multi color. when greece runs out of money, then it gets real. when is that?
By the usual method, that date sums to 3. A prime number. I think it's a go.
2+1+1+2+0+1+5=12
1+2=3
Who's your daddy Putin.
Who's your daddy Obammy.
For the girls..
only one choice for the girly men.
2 x 11 = 22
22 - 15 = 7!
Christine! Christine! It's that 7 again!
DavidC
-1
It is in Russia's interest and Greece's to delay this as long as possible and try every strategy short of capitulation to avoid a Grexit, hopeless as it may seem.
The longer this goes on, the more countries Greece can sway, the more they can get on record that their exit is not their idea, the more strain they put on the three European alliances EU, Euro and NATO.
Russia's big win is not capturing Greede but seeing as much of Europe as possible breaking with the Empire, the Fed and ECB. And this is what Greece also needs.
My bet: they will make some sweet talk public to put the pressure on, but play for time.
Just like Angie playing for choco-time.
Agreed. Stall, stall, stall. Meetings, meetings, meetings. While the warhawks continue their large scale military buildup and the swindle becomes more obvious.
Since evil prevails until it either kills itself or gets killed, My guess is NO Grexit...the EU would rather cave and keep Greece to save face and not lose a member to Russia. Either way the sheep of the EU will pay, not the elites. All that matters to the elites is how long they can keep the plates spinning and if they can upgrade to that next yacht before the collapse or not.
Didn't you hear? If the sun rises, it's good news for stocks.
Yes, no matter how this plays out it is super bullish equities.
Would you travel through Ukranian airspace?
Which airline?
they are fucked either way
We need a new monetary system
> monetary <
NSA does enough monitoring already
.
DavidC
How about an old one....gold
sign me up
"We need a new monetary system"
Old? New? How about some good old fashion "honesty and integrity" designed back into any system?
not with this Fiat money
it has to be based on PM
beets and baklava
to back a new commodity based currency
It will choose Russia. Plenty of vodka.
Gannett (USA Today) now CHARGING students to write for some of its local papers!
http://tinyurl.com/ljvlvz9
Pravda.
let's hope so. they deserve each other
maybe if it was ouzo the choice would be easier
. .
0
LOL!!!
Actually, ASSHOLE, tens of millions of urban Russians with their country gardens and chicken-coops are the original preppers and as such are way, way ahead of most Europeans and nearly all Americans in the 'starvation/or not/collapse" scenario. There is a serene beauty to autarky (otherwise known as national independence). But you know that all too well, don't you Langley troll?
russians see us tv and movies and have missed out on much for 100 years. Yes, they do grow food. Still, it is quite rough there. They do have their elites, and of course, as always, the latest of american technology, kind of like how japan had all the tech to make aircraft carriers like the us, but without the engineers that designed all of it. Gosh, how did they do it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEaOhaxka8g&list=FLbxyCizMndI5D1xfClXNTq...
How do you fit country gardens and chicken coops in an apartment?
Serious question. I thought Urban Russians had all bought their old apartments during the breakup.
"I thought Urban Russians had all bought their old apartments during the breakup"
Many did, but like America, not everyone lives in the city. Russia has a much greater percentage of it's population who is capable of feeding themselves than America does.
You should watch some Russian videos posted to YouTube by the Russians themselves. It's quite enlightening to say the least.
In many ways, the people in the rural areas bear a great resemblance to our people decades ago, before food stamps, meth, crack and morbid obesity became the norm.
Here's one to get you started: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zaDOnnzMwQ
Russian Rednecks....that is beautiful.
Thanks for the link.
Only wish I could speak Russian.
Ever been to Russia? I mean, seriously, ever been?
Russian version of prepping: Killing your neighbor for their food. Learned that from real experience, not Russophilia.
You are the guy that thinks bailouts are not just new loans, but are free money that solves the problem of a sinking government. LOL, What propaganda! We'll call it a Bailout when it is not going to do anything but payoff some banks that are the most risky.
EKM1: They did the same thing to the USA. You can inherit debt from your family and the tightened up bankruptcy laws for individuals & households right before the 2008 Financial Crisis. This is probably a program over 3000 years old coming out of Mesopotamia. Debt Slaves who can't vote on anything in the court system or in the National Government who took the power to set up the European Banking System.
EUROPE = Royal Banking System, run by the hard core who outsource and keep investment down to a minimum
RUSSIA = Your MIC Commie Wetdream that you fear
1913 - Federal Reserve Act (third European Central Bank)
1998 - Brooksly Born Rejected on her concerns on OTC Derivatives
1998 - Derivatives expanded and were not regulated
1998 - Citicorp & Travelers Insurance Merger
1999 - Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act (Phil Gramm, W. Clinton, followed by 2008 Financial Crisis)
1999 - bombing campaign in Kosovo (W. Clinton, over 60 days)
2000 - Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000 (P. Gramm, W. Clinton, derivatives)
2002 - McCain–Feingold Act (G.W. Bush, Campaign Finance, soft money unlimited)
2005 - Energy Policy Act (G.W. Bush, subsidies, excluded clean air Water acts)
2005 - Bankruptcy Abuse Prevention and Consumer Protection Act of 2005 (BAPCPA).
@ekm1
it's very clear a la noodleman they are after russia's breadbasket, ukraine, with the agenda of infecting the soil with tainted gmo's. pooty is the only thing standing in the way.
europe=perpetual enslavement and starvation
russia=at least a chance
Precisely, which is why the Greeks aren't dumb enough to hitch their dracmas to the ruble. Or anything else Russian. They're trying to gain the upper hand in their own game of "chicken." But Europe is fed up enough with the antics now to call their bluff. Greece is trying to play 5 card stud with one card. Epic fail despite the valiant effort.
You could look at it the exact opposite too and it would still be true.
If you owe the bank 100 dollars, that's your problem. If you owe the bank 400 billion dollars, that's their problem.
No matter who calls or doesn't call whos bluff, everyone gets fucked. Be a slave or starve, take your pick.
I'm somewhat drunk right now, so I apologize if I'm not making much sense.
Now if I was a household. If I had affinity to my extended family. If I had the power t decide between slavery and forfeiture of my assets and my future? If I was sitting in a chair and given the choice of sellling out my countryside and neighbours and generation into the future. To benefit global bankers and corporations.
If I was a private home would I sell out the future? Iceland.
I'm making over $7k a month working part time. I kept hearing other people tell me how much money they can make online so I decided to look into it. Well, it was all true and has totally changed my life. This is what I do... www.globe-report.com
Eney, meeny, miny, moe. There, that was easy.
<Show me the money.>
Not so easy
Isolated Russia.... That's maybe why Obama is furious tonite
Hopefully Reggie will be hard on Chalky the Gimp tonight.
Next up Serbia. Mr. Nikolic, pull out of the membership negotiations with the EU and join the Eurasian Union!
I think Vicky N has Hungary in her sights first. The blue cookie or the red?
What's wrong Janet?
https://twitter.com/SarahPortlock/status/565251330579910656/photo/1
That wasn't a fart...
Always the bridesmaid, never the bride...
I think that was a Shart!
fukkin debbie downer
Russia:
Greece and Russia being targeted by the Western imperialismIs there anything or anyone on this fucking rock that isn't?
Unfortunately no ... for the moment ...
If the 2 Greek Ministers are smart they'll take the train.
Just sayin...
Seeing how this is Greece, there are many implications in "taking the train".
Look at the map - trains from Athens to Moscow have to pass through....
... Ukraine!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keiuXB3dJ0E
As if, I wish Greece would have the balls to actually do what it says and go knocking on Russia's door just to fuck the EU, it will never happen.
Greece fucked itself years ago by burning billions of Euros they didn't have. It is now a zombie nation. The current show is nothing more than the final death throes of that country's "logic, and pride." (Why should they have to pay back money they borrowed? Germany invaded 75 years ago!)
Troika or Russia??? Fail, or fail.....
Iceland.
East Timor!
Close.
Remember The Alamo! All them injuns out there? They're bankers.
just like when my kids needed money, nein. so greeks, figure your shit out. go to your traditional currency and tell the parasites sucking the system to line up for bread lines and that is that. set flat tax on all transactions and scale gov to that level. greeks, time to get real and look in the mirror. what do you see? what do you want to see?
no sympathy from me...
moar loans-wtf. meth for heroin addicts...
fucking joke this whole world has become.
I believe they were Mexicans who "were out there".....
Definitely NOT Indians.
Please read some history books.
I thought they were Mexicans
Tomorrow?
Is that kinda like one of Obama's bullshit red lines?
"If you were to see Russian bases in NATO territory it would obviously raise serious concerns." 200 years ago Russia had a naval base in the Adriatic.
Meanwhile Obummer stands in front of a Muslim group and tells them Islam does not believe in terrorism. Our country has become a fucking caricature of its once proud self, and Obama is doing everything he can to destroy what remains.
Putin is simply taking what he is being offered freely.
If anything happens in politics you can bet your bottom dollar it was planned that way - Henry Kissinger.
As much as I hate Kissinger, I pay attention to what he says.
You magnificent bastard...
He broke the neck of the lord, he won't get another chance, and has yet to pay the consequences of this first one. Countdown bitches!
Exit already ....
All this foreplay is getting old.
If I had a nickel for every time I've heard that...
...you could afford condoms.
As long as you don't live in Venezuela.
You could barter - oh wait...
please explain why greece can't default exit eu and get a fresh start with IMF loan. Isn't that what sovern bankupt countries do?
@ zeropain
The IMF are part of the problem, they use the same play book as all the other banksters. Loan sharks have nothing on this lot. Show me one country that is better off from having been "helped"by the IMF.
From Paul Craig Roberts . . .
http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014/07/09/shall-rule-world-michael-hudson/
noted, but it takes two to tango. just wondering who is willing to dance with greece. will the russian/asian banks step less on greeces toes?
Russia represents a new start
The west represents monkey shit.
Anyone that believes Russia represents a new start to anything is diluded.
I am in constant awe at the amount of unjutsified russophilia that goes around these threads...but maybe it's just more or less a bunch of closeted nationalists and statists that yearn for the kind of autocracy that Putin is bringing in...who knows.
Diluded?
Personally, I am in constant awe of the genius that is Putin.
If you find bowing and scraping to a bunch of elitist banker nobleman more to your liking, then by all means, get to it. In fact, move back over there and get the experience first hand. Get a house in Greece where the IMF bankers have increased property taxes 1000% times and tied them to their electricity bill.
My ancestors were put on a boat by the ancestors of those pompous asses and I find it really amazing that idiots, such as yourself, think you're being patriotic. Go work for Fox.
And, to ChewyBunny, my ancestors were on the first boat...and you're an idiot.
#DumpTheEuroPrintDrachmas
Too much fucking chit-chat over this. A Grexit and a pivot is "priced in". There are no surprises, just different schedules.
disco chit chat :)
Even Schäuble must know deep down inside that it's all bullshit and that there is no solution other than kicking the can further.
He is doing the bidding for the banksters and an army of Eurocrats.
None of this makes any sense anymore because it never made any sense to begin with. It was DOA, flawed from the beginning and just confusing the hell out of everyone and making millions of lives miserable.
Who here doubts that Greece, Italy, Spain and Portugal would not have recoverd much faster without this fucking ball and chain of a Euro?
There's a hand in tha back...oh wait - never mind. He's doing the pull-my-finger-joke with the waitress.
I do. Sure, the Euro's fcuked up. But that 2007 standard of living, however brief, was too good to pass up for the Greeks. Without the Euro, it's back to a simpler economy. That might be a good idea for those countries, but I doubt they think so.
Greece hasn't been standing on its own for the last 185 years
http://www.europac.net/commentaries/greece_dependency_has_created_danger...
Heavens to Betsy, the Russians doin it back...
EurAsia all the way. I think everyone is fearful of the dominance of the US. We may see more countries turn their back on the WEST. If it snowballs so will Germany. Snowden's NSA exposure has scared many countries.
Step 1: Syriza bluffs, ups the Ante, then 'Kicks the Can'
Step 2: EU accepts 'Kick the Can' and plays for time (to topple Syriza)
Note that the 'Tell' is the line "We want a deal...", rather than "Forget the EU! We are leaving and repudiating the Debt". Learn to read the SUBTLE subtext, masked by loud bluster.
As I remember it the US Military kept tabs on places where there were communist sympathies. This was the former Yugoslavia, Italy, and Greece amoung others.
I'm guess this played out in the Greek Coup of 1967 and in some terrorism later in in Europe of the 1970s-1980s. Whether these terror attacks in Italy or Greece were staged by the Right Wing secret armies of NATO or not doesn't matter.
My guess is that the USA, CIA, NATO still want to control the Left Wing Politics of Europe through a strategy of tension or intrigue.
How many stores sell Nail-Guns in Greece?
How do you protect the families, activists, political groups, and elected leaders of Greece?
- Fortress?
- Safe Houses that are unknown locations?
- Cancel Political Activities?
- Living in Government Buildings?
- Centralize the Politicians and their families in a city center like in the capital or another city?
Defy Death and Kidnapping by being courageous and just doing your job as normal.