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Tomorrow Greece Decides: Europe... Or Russia
There was much confusion earlier today surrounding the immediate fate of Greece, when first thing in the morning Bloomberg reported a rumor that the European Commission would grant Greece a 6 month extension, sending futures surging, and then several hours later, futures surged some more when Germany's finance minister crushed the first rumor, saying "it was wrong" and that without a Greek program, it was "all over."
Which means that the only relevant overnight news when stripping away the endless trial balloons and BS that Europe covers itself with before every important economic summit, was what the Greek defense minister said as reported by Reuters, namely that Greece now has a Plan B if Europe refuses to budge - the same "plan" we hinted last month:
Greek Defence Minister Panos Kammenos said that if Greece failed to get a new debt agreement with the euro zone, it could always look elsewhere for help.
"What we want is a deal. But if there is no deal - hopefully (there will be) - and if we see that Germany remains rigid and wants to blow apart Europe, then we have the obligation to go to Plan B. Plan B is to get funding from another source," he told Greek television show that ran in to early Tuesday. "It could the United States at best, it could be Russia, it could be China or other countries," he said.
In other words, a threat that if Europe doesn't need Greece (as the EuroStoxx50 and S&P500 are so giddy to confirm), then Greece also doesn't need Europe for the only reason it has needed it for the past 6 years: to provide funding.
Not only that, but Greece would also promptly default on debt held by the ECB and launch the contagion that UBS described earlier, with the only question being how quick it would spread across what is left of the European "Union" and Eurozone.
Western observers were certainly not amused at the Greek comments. As Newsweek reported, Dr Jonathan Eyal from defence and security think tank the Royal United Services Institute (RUSI) called Kammenos’ statement an “unbecoming threat from a NATO member state.”
He told Newsweek: “It’s another reminder that the Greeks have never offered the kind of solidarity to Europe that Europe has shown to Greece.”
“It’s very obvious the Russians have an opportunity to subsidise a country that can stop a consensus that is required to keep up sanctions on Russia. It’s very grave indeed. The repercussions of this could be quite serious depending on what Greece do in return.”
This would lead to the unthinkable: should Greece pivot to Russia it would permit Putin to build Russian bases on NATO soil!
Eyal was not impressed: "It’s possible although it’s a farfetched. If you were to see Russian bases in NATO territory it would obviously raise serious concerns." Or, as Putin would call it, victory. Of course, just because on the surface this possibility appears "farfetched" is why the western punditry is refusing to completely ignore it.
We bring this all up because as everyone by now knows, tomorrow night is the emergency Eurogroup meeting when, among other things, Greece will ask for a bridging loan to cover funding needs until August, something which Germany has already suggested is a non-starter, and yet hopes remain that somehow a compromise will emerge. Furthermore, while there are future meetings in the immediate future, as a reminder Europe's 10 day ultimatum to approve the bailout program is ticking, and runs out just in time for the next meeting, after which all bets will be off. So for all intents and purposes, tomorrow is when Greece must get some much needed clarity on what happens next: whether Europe is ready to compromise or, if not, consider Plan B.
And while most are aware of all of the above, it is the Plan B aspect which few have considered. It is here that as Kathimerini reported yesterday, things are indeed getting serious, to the point where one may be forced to even think about the "unthinkable."
As Greek Kathimerini reported, "Greece's Foreign Minister Nikolaos Kotzias is to visit Moscow on Wednesday to hold talks with his Russian counterpart Sergei Lavrov, Russia's Interfax and TASS news agencies reported on Monday citing a source in the Russian Foreign Ministry."
In other words, at precisely the same time as the FinMin is in Brussels discussing the fate, or lack thereof, of Greece in the Eurozone, the new Greek foreign minister will be in the Kremlin, getting instant updates from Brussels and perhaps discussing the fate of Greece in the Eurasian Economic Union.
Which means that as soon as tomorrow night, if the Eurozone is indeed intent on kicking Greece out as some have suggested, we may know if not Russia but Europe is who suddenly becomes more "isolated", as one of its current member flips allegiance to the man most hated by the entire "developed" world.
Or put in the simplest of terms, tomorrow Greece will decide: Europe, or Russia.
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if you understand people with a backbone they say no and mean it and QUITE TALKING ABOUT IT. he is caught between his id and ego. tough fuck, fuck. now you gotta fuck the people you promissed you wouldn't fuck. sucks to be you, ha...
Excellent point.
Excellent point.
Excellent point.
Yahtzee!!
Already know what the Euro banksters offer. Austerity and pain.
Go for the Russians. They offer plenty of party time with Vodka.
This play appears to be going as follows:
1. Greece rejects, denies whatever
2. Possibility of an extension from Europe
3. Europe: Extensions/Changes are out
4. We are going to Russia
Repeat cycle.....
End the shit show.
Go with Russia... they have better cookies.
The EU is about to be exposed for what it really is: a talking shop staffed by very silly people who think that they can get away with telling you how to live your life and billing you for their "advice".
Russia wants no part of greece. What would they do with millions of greek teat snugglers anyway? Expect status quo
I got news for you...just because you might think of Russians as kinda like the muscle-heads of Europe, and assume they'd only be interested in physical 'booty' like a bunch of Vikings, they are fully as clever and sophisticated as WE are...
They don't want the 'teat-snugglers'. The Greek 'debt' doesn't matter, because inconvenient debt can always be repudiated.
I'm sure the Russians are well aware of the other kinds of value that might be returned to an interested 'investor' in Greece should opportunity present itself...location, location, location!
As to what those might be, well, should a toe-hold in Greece be established, and ties with Turkey strengthened, your map of "Russian influence" starts to look like it's encircling Europe...an open mouth coming from the East.
Which incidentally, I see as a RESULT of what we have been doing for awhile. The neo-cons have been poking the bear and trying to box him in for years, response was inevitable. We may even have goaded Russia into a more active, defensive posture and entered a kind of Cold War 2.0 where the empires are ones of influence, and the weapons are technological.
But if Putin has a sense of humor, then that big ol' opening mouth on the map would look pretty God-damned funny...just for laughs.
Noone thinks of Russia as muscle-heads, more like the pickle on ones ass.
Yours is a throwback to the old idea of Russians as barbarians, not quite 'like us'. Not quite as civilized, not quite as cultured...
Then Peter the Great tears through Europe like a drunken frat-boy, leaving a trail of trashed rooms and vomit, and goes on to modernize, build St. Petersburg, and Russia's place as a Country to be Contended With despite the dreadful behavior...what cheek!
Well, if I'm Russia, and looking at things historically, I might think, "Yeah, well fuck YOU for all your "help" with the Mongols...they did more to us than puke on the linens and empty out the mini-bar."
Then I'd go on to become a World Power right in their FACE!
Historical references aggravate fools.
Fully as sophisticated and clever as we are...
In other words, they are clueless, selfish fuck-ups too.
Amid the clowning, a rational analysis. Well thought out BemObs.
Fact: Greece has more beachfront miles than the USA. And the water is warmer than most of it in the USA.
Makes for nice & affordable ports, resorts and vacation homes. Far enough for fun and safety, but close enough to countries and cities you want to visit or need to visit.
Recall also that there is the Levant gas field (Cyprus, Greece), and that Russia knows a tad more about that than Greece. Not to mention the Southstream pipeline that would go via Turkey and Greece to Europe.
So, aside from talking your usual Bangalore trash... You were saying?
Africa has more beachfront miles and gas than Greece and still doesn't make it a first world region.
You were saying?
Debt = first world.
Welcome to fight club nigger.
There are plenty first world nations with no or low debt.
Next try nigger.
put down the bong-youre talking nonsense Greece is a developed country
er....snuggle?
Europe will give the money to pay off old debts. Greece needs money for new infrastructure
[Drum roll]
Greece has to choose, but given the times its not a choice that is binding as its a race to bottom, an unsteady state.
The state of Greece has to survive to revive its eternal national heritage.
The State is the mother of the nation in that the nation is nothing if the state does not incarnate it.
Today we are not in a status of individual freedoms running the world, rather of neo-feudalism destroying the people. And only the state can save the people.
That is History. For the state to wither away we need people of a dimension we don't have today.
People's power is no match for Oligarchy power. Sad but true.
That still has to be invented like during the Enlightenment. Even then, it lasted a few years and then became statist.
I'm not sure I follow your logic.
I quite agree that humanity is being crammed back into serfdom, but it is not the state that is defending the people against this occurrence but the state that is instituting this occurrence.
When you say that only the state can save the people, you are effectively saying that servitude is their natural place in life and they should like it.
America, thanks to the foresight of its founders, knows how to answer this call.
doing a damn good job at it for the 0.1%.
There is no such thing as absolute individual freedom. General good has never been achieved without some sacrifice by the individual to the collective we call state. People are never islands unto themselves.
Never ever. So if you've seen a place other than Robinson Crusoe island where no state is required to regulate power between strong and weak, rich and poor, I'd love to know all about it.
Don't tell me its WS. And don't tell me the USA invented hot water and the republic.
"America, thanks to the foresight of its founders, knows how to answer this call."
Yet another person who doesn't understand the socioeconomic history and founding of the "United" States of America.
The founders were agrarian and quasi-industrialist oligarchs who created a Constitution to cement ownership and control over a (manifest destiny potential) landmass.
The Articles of Confederation were not what these oligarchs had in mind to satisfy their short/long term interests, and we know how that story ended.
Most Americans are living in a fantasy land of the free, home of the brave.
There is only one state currently allowed to have a national heritage...Israel.
More Judenfetzen either way, right?
Russia will not be stupid enough to fund Greece, given that Greece is threatening to tear up sovereign loan agreements worth EUR 252 billion. Quite apart from the fact that they need every rouble in Russia, they are not stupid enough to invest in Greek government bonds. Greek railroads are another story.
They will give them some dollars. They have plenty. Dollars are firesale.
If you, personally, would be treated that way and leave for another 'home', would you pay that loans back or would you let them sort it out on their own?
Russia doesn't really need more Roubles but they need a market and an independent central bank - quite a difference, imho. Unless recently they where wholly dependant on changing Dollars into Roubles, now they can make use of Yuan, too.
This is not about money, though your thinking is reflected through the lens of money, a product of the society you live in. This is about strategy and playing the great game, by which I mean chess. The US is in desperate straits, which is why the dogs of war are once again straining at the leash. All their plans have been set at nought by Putin and his team: the failure of the Ukraine project, locked out of Eurasia, blowback on the oil front, alliances with China, India, Iran and now Turkey, and of course bankruptcy: financial. spiritual, moral, social and political etc. Putin is no moral paragon, probably a seriously unpleasant person, but his actions are guided by calculation, not by the misapprehension that having vast fleets and myriad armed forces, avails one of every option. In todays great game these are little more than liabilities.This has been the fallback position of the US like forever: get in line or we'll stomp you. It might play when one is up against the disunited dervishes, but not with ancient cultures such as Russia and China who are both sufficiently developed technologically and united in ways that the US never will be. Such people can nod to the Greeks and see a commonlity of interests which they can exploit to mutual advantage.
PIPELINES....
BASES.....
You have three nations that have, historically, hated each other with a vengeance: Greece, Turkey and Russia. But if they can agree on pipline constsruction, they will have assured themselves a valuable future income stream.
With Russia and China backing all the PIIGS if they exut it would be sweet payback for the sanctions.
Russia backing Greece? Russia can't back itself.
Hey Greece, better the devil you know vs. the devil you don't know.
The devil is in the detail
http://nogoodforme.filmstills.org/images/satansarmy.jpg
When Ukrainian army officers came to the Ukrainian village of Velikaya Znamenka to tell the men to prepare to be drafted, they weren’t prepared for what happened next. As the commanding officer was speaking, a woman seized the microphone and proceeded to tell him off: "We’re sick of this war! Our husbands and sons aren’t going anywhere!" She then launched into a passionate speech, denouncing the war, and the coup leaders in Kiev, to the cheers of the crowd.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=9ea_1423300652#BtLFhV24xRGrSxcg.99
i believe(not wishing) that peoples around the world are sick and tired of war.
we will see. russia stopped a blow out. he is trying his damnest to stop furture bloodshed.
all the while merica stirs the pot. have mericans had enough? everybody i talk to says so. it's our leaders, quite the minority...
It's hard to beleive the leaders of Greece, the EZ, and the ECB haven't thought this all the way through yet in terms of viable options but then again, we're dealing with both politicians (generally not the sharpest tools in the shed) and banksters (generally the most arrogant and greedy MoFos around) attempting to resolve this problem. But let's play this out how it should be occuring:
- Step One: Greece is bankrupt, as everyone knows. There is no way their debt can be repaid so a massive debt destruction needs to occur. This is really not that different than an individual or company going BK as the same logic holds. Too much debt, not enough income/assets to repay the debt = debt destruction. So Greece has taken step one and realized their is no way the debt can be repaid.
- Step Two: What the leaders of Greece should be doing, as with all successful BK proceedings, is to secure what's known as DIP financing - debtor in possession financing while at the same time stringing your creditors along with some BS promises of how this is going to all work out over the long-term. The goal is to keep your primary creditors at bay until the DIP financing can be secured. Basically once you default, everyone is going to place you on COD so you'd better have some hard currency with USD, Euros, Yen, Yuan, etc. to support on-going operations. I don't believe Greece has done a good job of this as first and foremost, they should have strung the EU/ECB along more and played their BS game of "Yes we want to find a solution", "Greece does have debt obligations that will be met", "We understand the importance of the EU", etc., etc., etc. This would have bought sorely needed time to approach Russia and China with securing a DIP program. If Greece was clever, they would have played the game better but instead, the politicians suffered from foot in mouth disease and have given the creditors wind of a more drastic strategy.
For Greece, only three parties are really available to secure the $50 to $100 billion of long-term DIP financing they need. Russia, China, and the US. Russia would be a logical choice as for them to step up and assist Greece would be a direct shot at the West/US not to mention securing new favorable trade agreements and most importantly, access to ports/locations for military purposes (as for Russia to provide financial assistance in the form of hard currency to use, collateral such as ports would be required). But with the recent oil/Rubble problems, I'm not sure Russia can really offer the type of financial support Greece will need. China would be a very logical source of funding as with trillions in international reserves (money to spare) and attractive military/economic expansion potential, moving its footprint West into Greece would make sense. Further, what better way to exchange excess USDs for an interesting strategic asset - i.e., Greece. Finally, the US would have to be in play as to watch Russia or China expand into Europe and establish a further footprint would be something that Washington and Wall Street would probably become very concerned with at both the economic and military levels.
- Step Three: Implement all of the necessary steps to re-introduce the Drachma ranging from designing and producing new currency to establishing exchange rates, limits, etc. There is no doubt that this re-introduction is going to be very painful as the value gets hammered on the open market, hyper-inflation sets in, and the Greeks standard of living decreases but this is what happens in a BK. Whether it is a business, person, or country living beyond their means, the adjustment back to living within your means is very painful. This will be no different for the Greeks but is necessary to cleanse the palate and establish the foundation for long-term growth. Eventually, the market will set a fair exchange rate for the ND (new Drachma) but it will take a while and involve a lot of volitility but can be managed/supported again by having ample DIP financing/hard currency liquidity to help manage the process.
- Step Four: Then finally, at the right time, the primary creditors all given the shaft as new, senior financing is secured and the primary creditors fall to the bottom of the priority chain in terms of getting repaid. Not much the primary creditors can really do other than continue to demand payments (bitch and moan), seize collateral (thus starting a war), or simply realize their plight and accept whatever return they can get, somewhere in the distant future. Greece should have managed this process better by stringing the EU/ECB along and then offering a "cram down" financing deal when the plan was ready to be implemented. Being in control of the creditors is best when you have secured resources to execute a turnaround and exit. Again, Greece has not planned or developed a pre-packaged BK well and have thus given the EU/ECB leverage in the process.
So that's the story. First acceptance/realization that BK is reality. Second, develop a plan and secure DIP financing. Third, take the pain with the reintroduction of the Drachma. Fourth, pull the rug out from under the creditors by giving them one hell of a cram down (after promising to work with them). Remember, all warfare is based on deception. BK is warfare for survival so deception is rule number one in the process.
As for my prediction, some BS short-term standstill agreement will be reached between the EU/ECB and Greece to buy six months of time (and everyone will be happy). Then, Greece will finalize its plan and eventually blackmail the EU and US into providing all the financial support it needs in order to avoid allowing Russia and/or China to establish a strategic foothold in Southern Europe. The US and EU will spin it at as a win-win for everyone expect that evil Mr. Putin in Russia but everyone knows that it will be just another victory for the twin axis of evil, Washington and Wall Street, to extract even more wealth from the taxpayers of the US and Europe.
My compliments on a well thought out comment. One additional possibility would be for the US, because of its totally military orientation, to make Vicky Nuland's vulgar remarks come true by bypassing Europe and offering Debtor-in-Possession financing directly to Greece to keep it in NATO.
Fuck the EU!
Filthy Captured Bastards.
FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT!!!
Erm, Russia is also Europe. Just sayin'...
Mostly Asia.
Used to be North America too....it's a big ass place.
Time to make friends with Turkey too
Greece's exit from the West back to the East, its rightful place, is symbolic. Foretold by Carroll Quigley in his "Evolution of Civilizations" (1961), Western civilization which has staved off decay multiple times in the past millinium expected its last hurrah soon, and that waiting in the wings will be numerous nascent civilizations: Russian/Orthodox, Mexican, Indian, Chinese.
We are living in historic times...even if it is pre-destined WWE...
Mexican? Has it moved from its former location next to the USA?
CanMexica
No politician will make any difficult decision until the last possible minute, or later.
Impeccable timing, right? I just wonder which meeting takes place first...
I look for undermining of coalition gov't in Grease. Oligarchs simply unermine the gov't and get EU stooges elected.
The enemy of my enemy is my friend.
So I have 5 billion friends.
I have just gone on Facebook and clicked the button "enemy of my enemy" making you a friend.
http://theodore-katsanevas.blogspot.com/2015/02/dean-andromidas-will-gre...
The Greek people gave Syriza and the Independent Greeks an overwhelming mandate in the July 25 elections to say “ochi” (“no”) to their foreign oppressors. The performance of the new government, led by these two parties, in its first week in office, demonstrates that it is fulfilling expectations—much to the consternation of the Euro-fanatics bent on saving their dying financial system. This is not a “coalition” government, patched together to implement the wrong policies. This is a government of “national salvation” that is not intimidated by bankers in three-piece suits, the pale-faced European Commission bureaucrats, including EC president Jean-Claude Juncker, or the likes of German Chancellor Angela Merkel, let alone the silly Dutch Finance Minister Jeroen Dijsselbloem, who chairs the Eurogroup of finance ministers, who claim to be the “partners” of Greece, but in reality, are in the thrall of the hopelessly bankrupt European banks.
Just as important as this government’s gutsy defiance against the financial imperialists, is the real possibility that Greece could become the first European country to join the BRICS. If Greece’s European “partners” attempt to carry out the threats they have made, Greece—despite its determination to convince them that it is in the interest of all of Europe to cut Greece’s debt in the context of a “New Deal-style” policy—has the ability to turn to new allies: Russia, China, and the emerging new economic order being created by the BRICS and allied countries.
What the hey... if Obama wants a $4T budget, why not add another $358B and bail out Greece in exchange for all their islands. Just the tourist $$$ from a US territory in the Mediterranean would pay that off in no time.
It will be interesting to watch how Greeks deal with Russian loan sharks.
That is, if any of them are dumb enough to loan them any money.
The propoganda value is priceless.
Putin didn't have to do a thing except pick up a dinner bill.
BRICS will be the player.
oh come one, everyone knows what's gona happen here ...
they'll just announce a last minut deal that pushes the can down the road for let's say 3 months (yeah 6 months was just an ugly pointless rumor)
Greece and most of mankind are destined to spend their future dealing with the fallout of their smoke n mirrors program to get Greece into the Euro.Maybe it's Goldman that needs to be accused of failing to offer solidarity to Greece and Europe
I'm so excited
And I just can't hide it
I'm about to loose control and I think I like it
Oh Yeah
On the coin toss, putting on the biggest position possible in EURUSD. What could go wrong?
Consider a third mortgage....
This is the stronghold that the New Government should move too unless it is too vulnerable from the Sea.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palace_of_the_Grand_Master_of_the_Knights_...
I can't believe they still have a plaque there for Benito Mussolini
I floated past that castle one morning at dawn on an overnight ferry boat. Very nice sight ...
andremove it from the evil clutches of unesco aka redshield.
"I'm so excited" - maybe the words can be changed to "I'm so exited."
If tomorrow, Greece comes up with a nice offer from Russia, there will be a stampede in the EU.
Grab the popcorn.
Cramer ads ?? ...
"I missed the trading floor so much, I created..."
Not enought Sheeple and Muppets here, bitch.
Greece and the rest of the PIIGS should join the BRICS after they default on their debts owed to the Euro banksters.
Greece should join Russia. They are both marxist and broke.
Too true
This all begs the question: is NATO like the EU, in that there is no orderly process in place for a nation exiting the treaty?
It's like a gang, blood in blood out...simple as that!
Putin's sanction payback is if he can get the PIIGS to default and dump the Euro.
He'll win the economic war plain and simple if he can pull in Euro countries in the BRICS. China will gain as well. Stregthen the country support.
More baby steps to knock out the US as the world's reserve currency. And the Euro is showing starting cracks.
And we all end up winning as that collapse hastens the reset.
You two have valid points there...hmmmm!!!
Greece Malaka
Merkel wishes she would of got titty fucked to save Euro
Greek govmnt receives vote of confidence from the Greek parliament
If Greece decides to go toward Russia we will see a Poroshenkys new leader real soon brought by Soros and co.
Eyal-RUSI: “It’s very obvious the Russians have an opportunity to subsidise a country that can stop a consensus that is required to keep up sanctions on Russia.”
This is the biggy win for Russia if things go its way.
Russia has said they would give them aid, I know why, as a wedge. But the Greeks will be SCREWED...between a rock and a hard place!
I would guess that getting Greece to withdraw its support for EU sanctions - and according to Eyal they require EU member state unanimity - would be an even higher priority for Putin than setting up a military base in Greece. That could always come along later.
phissshhh phissssh, wait until City of London gets a pain in the gulliver. The economist will be writing three sheets to the wind.
Let them eat cake, so what if it is 3 weeks old and stale as a fart! EU, Russia, EU, Russia, I wouldn't want either of 'em...the Greeks are in for it, fuck the broke bastards now!
All part of an orchestrated script:
Huff and puff and make noises about Grexit and Russian aid.
At the last minute the EU blinks.
Dow up 400 tomorrow.
The can gets successfully kicked further.
In the end this is all about who picks up the tab to support huge populations of unproductive people.
It's not just greece.
The worlds workforce is shifting into neutral.
But they still have to eat. Right?
'shifting into' neutral....?
That happened way, way back there….
Indeed it has.
At a cost of 10 trillion dollars the U.S. has been able to hide the effects of 95 million who no longer work. In reality those people would be starving and homeless . This would cause massive social chaos. By loaning ourselves trillions we have been able to pretend that all those folks can exist without producing anything of value. Mis thatcher made the now famous statement ; the problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money. This already occurred and we (solved) this minor problem by creating unlimited debt. In Greece''s case they solved the same problem by having Brussels create the debt needed to keep the unproductive fed and housed. At some point it breaks down, and all those unfunded liabilitys will need to be liquidated.
Exactly. What works in finance doesn't work in real life. The labor force x'd off the balance sheets REMAINS as a liability, costing way more than they would have been paid in many cases.
Russia and China for the win.
I'm tired of listening to this Greek $hit.
Hmm MSFT did a 10.9BN bond offering http://www.forbes.com/sites/spleverage/2015/02/09/microsoft-boosts-bond-.... That was easy.
"Greek Defence Minister Panos Kammenos said that if Greece failed to get a new debt agreement with the euro zone, it could always look elsewhere for help.
"What we want is a deal. But if there is no deal - hopefully (there will be) - and if we see that Germany remains rigid and wants to blow apart Europe, then we have the obligation to go to Plan B. Plan B is to get funding from another source," he told Greek television show that ran in to early Tuesday. "It could the United States at best, it could be Russia, it could be China or other countries," he said."
One better, MSFT could provide a bridge loan. Greece shall henceforth be called Microsoft land and only use MSFT products, locking in a client base forever and kicking out competitors.
The hoard of cash from AAPL or GOOG could probably buy out the entire debt and their cashflow to buy the rest of the country.
Wow,Greece is actually pimping itself out to the highest bidder..
If you're gonna get fucked up the ass you better get the most coin you can. Plus, if you're good at something never do it for free.
Or they buy gold and back current debt with it. People would buy their bonds.
Come on people , eveybody knows EU will fold and kick the can ad vitam eternam ..
Nothing will ever change.
As long as i can remember , it's always been very simple:
Who is really paying for the worlds corruption , fiscal irresponsability ,and moar free shit ? hard working middle class. Small caps businesses
Who is bailed out with trillions of free cash whenever they screw up ? None of the above.
I'm getting tired of this shit. I simply wish complaning about it on ZH could make a difference.
.
All i am sayin, is give greece a chance. I remember a song bout dat. Maybe we will have whirled peas.
I was just thinking... what is stopping the Greeks form just getting on a flight, coming to the US and signing up for all the illegal alien benefits.
Hell, they would be able to set up a breakfast shop in no time. Y'know right after they got their Obama fone, food stamps, drivers licenses, voting cards, ObamaCare, etc...
"Cause they ain't white 'neither right ?
Bernie Sanders agrees.
Those Greeks are doing a pretty good impersonation of Cleavon Little in Blazing Saddles:
"If you don't give us more money, we're going to borrow from someone else we'll never pay back."
Alexander the Great did not head to Europe - he went east into Asia and spread Greek influence over Turkey, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, etc.
spread influence in Europe? to whom?
europe rose after the fall of Constandinople, when they moved the knowledge and money there ... it is a long ongoing war of thousands of years
Hey Jose, Al was long before the Turks were ever around the neighborhood.
Uncle Vladimir just waits for the bankers to fuck up. He waited for them to crash the Ruble, so he could buy up Rubles on the cheap in exchange for his worthless US Treasury Bonds.
He watched the IMF bankrupt Egypt and foster a coup. Then he offered the new leader an AK-47 after they showed their callousness to the US.
He's not aggressively going after any allies. He doesn't have to. The over-blown egos in Washington spend all our money sending everyone to his side.
Hey Greece, your rich Uncle Vladimir is on the phone!
http://eng.letters.kremlin.ru/
Send a Letter to the PresidentPlease read the following carefully before you send any letter addressed to the President of Russia.
For messages related to appeals against court decisions, it is imperative to remember the following.
Under the Constitution of the Russian Federation, only courts can administer public justice. The judicial authorities are independent and work separately from legislative and executive authorities. Decisions by judicial authorities can be appealed in the procedural order established by the law. Applicable legislation prohibits any intervention in administration of justice.
(Help! Our govt have been captured in a coup! Signed, Canadian in Distress)
can talk to Russia but if connects it would be with THE GROUP of 77+China and Russia [135+nations]
you should know this by now
Ouzo for Vodka....
Tspiras is going to love Putin's bunga bunga parties.
I think Putin is going to do to Tsipras what I'd like to do to some of those Russian mailorder brides who advertise on ZH's webpages...and, no, it has nothing to do with generously pumping in money. There will be a "pumping" of sorts but it'll be on a more organic level.
GREECE: PARTNER WILL RUSSIA.
-----
You have something VERY REAL and VERY VALUABLE to offer Russia... a pipeline to ship their energy products to Europe sans Ukraine and other predator-dominated locations.
And Russia has something VERY REAL and VERY VALUABLE to offer Greece... a pipeline to ship their energy product to Europe.
To be sure, Russia makes the bulk of the gain, but after all, it IS their oil and gas being shipped through Greece to Europe.
But Greece can make an ENORMOUS sum of money on a per-capita basis by skimming off just a tiny percentage of the revenue for every bit of energy that flows through Greece. They have ENORMOUS leverage in the positive sense (vastly more people consuming that energy than live in Greece).
The EU has NOTHING to offer Greece... except SLAVERY.
EASY CHOICE... for any sane individual.
A real world WIN-WIN scenario.
Greece WINs.
Russia WINs.
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IMPORTANT: For this easy opportunity to work, these fees MUST be kept out of the hands of the Greek oligarchs. Otherwise the Greek people will get nothing, and those oligarchs will just get richer, more powerful, and more destructive. And so, PART of the pipeline deal must include language that ASSURES without any possible loopholes that ALL the revenue is distributed directly to the Greek people. This way, if the Greek oligarchs want to remain rich, they'll need to trade real, physical, valuable products to the Greek people for their currency, not skim it off from corrupt government cronies via sweetheart deals.
Well the Russian oligarchs will have to do business with somebody. We will see how legit Tsiparis is.
You can only smile when HonestAnn posts. That is a good woman. Women like that do not turn up often.
Keep the car running Ann. I can't have two wifes not that you would want me anyway. Intelligent women are on my list but I already have one of those. I like women who are smarter that I am on certisn issues. You know how to fly a plane and I might want a Cessna 152. I have flown a 150 before but I will need some help. It is all good.
Quite funny seeing the MSM shit themselves over Kotsias being an admirer of Aleksandr Dugin, never mind that Dugin is the greatest political philosopher of his generation, with a better understanding of world politics and Russia's place in it (present and future) than all the court pundits of the west put together.
If anyone will undo the damage done by the followers of Marx, it will be the followers of Dugin.
Imo Rusia needs Greece in Nato to act as an effective veto against further sanctions , more than it needs a future base for the moment.or its exit..which Russia would be more than happy to oblige with assistance as the hat is passed around by Greece to help meet a least a modicum of payments, to the ECB.. as its gesture of good faith..and buy breathing time for all involved..except Nato.. A friend in Need is a friend indeed..
Greece could get kicked out of NATO if they use Russia to fund their State.
I don't think Greece would mind a Russian gas pipe line coming out of Turkey across the Agean either.
The world seems to have become Vlad's chess board.
If you're going to dance with the bear, don't stop when you get tired.
You must choose. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oF2UrYSDb3k
They will side with Russia.
Greece is a very socialist country now. It is what is responsible for their current situation. One of the definitions of socialism is "communism lite". That is because no country ever descends into communism without first having gone through socialism. One is just a super set of the other in that communism is socialism carried to the extreme. They will be with their own kind and be showered with pseudo benefits until the time when it is impossible for Greece to extricate themselves. Then it will be too late - - as all the former USSR satellite countries discovered. But they WILL side with Russia. I would be very surprised if the did not.
Maybe this isn't an either or situation.
Greece could put themselves on EBay and sell themselves to the highest bidder.
Greece, Time to lead the World that default is no stigma. Paticularly when you default on Predators. It used to be a dead weight in a global economy dicatated by IMF. Look at Argentina who in substance can pay but only the dominant Predators (in this case hedge funds) who insist that they pay their prices.
Time to lead the World back to dealing with physicals. Physicals that Greece are blessed with and have standards of living pegged to the limitations of these physicals. No need for paper shuffling in Casinos with odds dictated by Predators. By now you should know better of the spin of a greater economic future to be huddled like Preys. This is snake oil.
Any deal with EU will only benefit the Predators. US will be much delighted to have a devastating EC. Not that Russia is perfect but at least try it and show the middle finger to these EC Predators that there are real alternatives.
This story does not seem to be credible: Russia has no interest to help out a Euro / EU country by providing financing other than to purchase a Greek veto against the EU-sanctions put on Russia. However the Greek's did not stood firm on the last meeting of the EU-foreign ministers and with Greek support the existing sanctions were expanded and prolonged. That looks to me like a non-starter. In a GREXIT scenario Greece would not need additional funding since it is achieving a primary surplus at the moment and after defaulting on all Euro debt Greece would be cash-positive. From a Russian viewpoint Greece might be a partner only after a GREXIT, i.e. GREXIT first and assistance possible thereafter
This is a good point. The Greeks just won few Russian friends by voting to extend sanctions. Vlad will however you imagine be interested in the air base and also having a more stable country than Ukraine transit Russian gas to the European market for him. So while he doesn't have an interest in abandoning Greece to its fate completely, it's probably not a bad idea to let them suffer a little first in order to obtain bargain prices.
Putin wins again, no matter what happens. If Greece stays in the EU, the EU is weakened. If Greece exits the EU, the EU is weakened. Putin has experience working around failed states. He won't have to spend a dime.
Minsk is a set up for failure as was the last one. Russian aggression will be the excuse for west to go all in because I don't think the Novoruss will be willing to back down after the betrayal of the last Minsk agreement. Whats the saying - Screw me once shame on you, Screw me twice shame on me. We tried diplomacy and it didn't work!!! Wah!! Putin!! WAH!!!
Greeks are bluffing stalling teasing. The greeks are trapped, they sold their souls long ago..
Here is another angle from Business Insider re Russia that makes this whole thing more interesting
http://www.businessinsider.com/russian-official-we-could-help-iran-attac...
Russian official: We could help Iran attack Saudi Arabia if US arms Ukraine
where's krugman, the Greeks owe this to themselves.
all these loans, and bail-outs, ect. around the world, since 2008, (and actually a hundred years before that), have been made using the citizens as assets for collateral, (debt servitude, taxes), rightly or wrongly the Greeks can't, or won't pay these loans back.
Greece's former elected, and unelected officials agreed to these, for no better words, (pay-day loans), now the present elected, and unelected officials say there unpayable.
now they got to go back to the gruber documents on the terms of these loans, which look as if Greece will have to default.
the bis just moved decimal points around to make these loans, and they can move decimal points around again, and they disappear, and life goes on.
here lies the worry, (dominos), what's good for the Greeks should be good for Spain, Italy, and a couple dozen other countries, more decimal point moving, soon no ecb., boe., boj., and fed..
Russians do not want the Greeks.
It's already decided, isn't it? Tomorrow, $50B are due, and if the finmins decide Greek is out, they will most likely at the same time prevent ELA rollovers, so as of immediate Greek banks will be shut. Not that there are any deposits left in those banks of course. Unless China or Russia - former more likely in my opinion - make a deposit of $50B tomorrow at a Greek ATM, I don't see wth else could happen.
It is interesting to consider how far Germany has come in a rather short time. When Merkel took office in 2005, she became chancellor of a Germany that was at peace, in a European Union that was united. Germany had put its demands behind it, embedding itself in a Europe where it could be both prosperous and free of the geopolitical burdens that had led it into such dark places. If not the memory, then the fear of Germany had subsided in Europe. The Soviet Union was gone, and Russia was in the process of trying to recover from the worst consequences of that collapse. The primary issue in the European Union was what hurdles nations, clamoring to enter the union, would have to overcome in order to become members. Germany was in a rare position, given its history. It was in a place of comfort, safety and international collegiality.The world that Merkel faces today is startlingly different. The European Union is in a deep crisis. Many blame Germany for that crisis, arguing that its aggressive export policies and demands for austerity were self-serving and planted the seeds of the crisis. It is charged with having used the euro to serve its interests and with shaping EU policy to protect its own corporations. The vision of a benign Germany has evaporated in much of Europe, fairly or unfairly. In many places, old images of Germany have re-emerged, if not in the center of many countries then certainly on the growing margins. In a real if limited way, Germany has become the country that other Europeans fear. Few countries are clamoring for membership in the European Union, and current members have little appetite for expanding the bloc's boundaries
https://www.stratfor.com/weekly/germany-emerges?mc_cid=eed5c7cc54&mc_eid...
The Euro is a doomed ponzi scheme. Most countries joined not because the populace wanted it but the political elite which is benefitting from generoulsy paid positions in Bruxelles. In Europe there are no countries left to join: Ukraine is just dismantled by Russia, Russia and Turkey do not want to join. Other countries available are economically irrelevant and can't keep the Ponzi's straw fire burning
If they stay they'll get what Ireland got or worse. If they go with Russia they'll have a chance to restore democracy and the rule of law.
I say they stay and start confiscating the stolen wealth from banksters, build or buy a few nukes of their own and tell everybody to go fuck themselves.
Greece will go with Daddy (Putin) because mommy (Merkel) is an old softy and her other European children have no direction and no machismo. Russia's debt is way its GDP unlike The West which will soon be skimming from the bottom of the punch bowl. Russkies can survive on borscht 3 times a day. Even once a day.
Maybe they can try Kickstarter
Long Defense. Short plow shares
OECD’s Going for Growth 2015 report
Get your KY jelly and a few tissues while watching this video.
/sarc
12 hours from now.
it is now 10AM Wednesday morning in Greece, and 11AM in Moscow.
No 10 days ... but maybe 10 hours...time is fleeting.
I know Russians love their homosexual leader but how will he sell paying for a US$790 a month pension to Greeks, when the people that vote for him get the equivalent of US$265 (pre Ruble crash value)? There's obviously a strategic value in undermining NATO and the EU but when your people are suffering domestically through disastrous economic policy, is throwing money at foreigners going to help your popularity
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/02/11/us-eurozone-greece-china-idUSK...
(Reuters) - China's Foreign Ministry said on Wednesday it had no knowledge of any offer by Beijing for aid to Greece after Greece's deputy foreign minister said China had offered economic support even though Athens had not requested it.
Nikos Chountis, who also holds the European Affairs portfolio, told Greek radio that Russiahad also offered Greece help, while Greek Defence Minister Panos Kammenos said that if Athens failed to get a new debt agreement with the euro zone, it could always look elsewhere for help, including possibly China.
"There have been proposals, offers I would say, from Russia, recently after the election, for economic support as well as from China, regarding help, investment possibilities," Chountis said, adding: "We have not asked for it."
China's Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying said she had seen the reports but had "no knowledge" of the matter.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/02/11/us-eurozone-greece-austria-idU...
(Reuters) - There is still time for Greece to end a debt standoff with its European partners, though no Plan B is in the offing, Austria's finance minister said, adding that Athens must honor the terms of its bailout package.
A showdown in Brussels looms this week as Greece's new leftist government tries to cancel a deeply unpopular bailout program with international creditors.
"I think we can reach a timely solution before the end of February if Greece wants this," Hans Joerg Schelling of the conservative People's Party told ORF radio in an interview broadcast on Wednesday. If not, matters would enter a "critical phase".
"We again have a situation now in which money is being withdrawn from Greek banks. We have a situation that certain debts may not be able to be serviced, and that is of course a critical phase because the reaction on financial markets would be enormous," he said.
He ruled out prospects of Greece's leaving the European Union or euro zone, saying it was in the interest of both sides to avoid such scenarios.
"..Dr Jonathan Eyal from defence and security think tank the Royal United Services Institute (RUSI).."
Translation - an anglosax debile from Royal United Parsel Services Of My Boots.