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The REAL Greek Negotiations: Situation Is “Berserk", "There Is No Plan", "Greeks Digging Own Graves"
Forget any conciliation: what is going on behind the scenes a day ahead of the Eurogroup meeting is nothing short of disaster.
“The Greeks are digging their own graves,” warns one EU official, according to MNI, with another exclaiming the Greek plan as “hopeless” and added “how can you have a plan when you make no payment obligation till the autumn and then you probably scrap that.” Simply put, speaking on condition of anonymity, an EU official described the situation as “berserk” adding “there is no plan.”
As MNI reports, EU officials are "infuriated" by 'wildly misleading' Greek claims...
The carefully orchestrated dance between the new Greek government and its European creditors appeared to crack Tuesday, with top Brussels officials infuriated by what they see as wildly misleading claims coming from Athens.
...
A senior European official, who spoke on condition of anonymity, described the situation as “berserk” and said, “there is no plan.”
...
“The Greeks are digging their own graves,” the EU official said.
At the start of the Tuesday, Greece floated its latest funding plan via press leaks, including to the Kathimerini newspaper, proposing a bridge financing programme that would lead to a “new deal” with creditors from September onwards.
There were reportedly four parts to the new deal: 30% of the existing memorandum with the Troika will be cancelled and replaced with 10 new reforms agreed with the OECD; Greece’s primary surplus target would be cut from 3% of GDP this year to 1.49%; Greek debt would be reduced via an already announced swap plan; and the “humanitarian crisis” would be alleviated via policies announced by Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras Sunday.
...
The first official described the plan as “hopeless” and added “how can you have a plan when you make no payment obligation till the autumn and then you probably scrap that.”
An exchange between the new Greek finance minister Yanis Varoufakis and Europe’s representatives, Thomas Wieser and Declan Costello, on Sunday was not successful, according to a source with knowledge of the encounter. The source said the Greek side gave the impression that if the Eurogroup did not agree with its stance, then the creditors could “go to hell.”
...
“For the Eurogroup to just agree new liquidity puts an awful lot of faith in a new government, without knowing what’s planned,” he said. “The ECB has stopped support, the EFSF and ESM need programmes and bilateral loans would be hard to pass domestically.”
And finally...
Meanwhile, the only advisor to the new Greek government, the investment bank Lazard, is not seen as playing a positive role by the EU side to date.
One EU official described the Lazard bankers as “incompetent” and “counterproductive.”
Compromise?
Meanwhile, we may have just hit peak trial balloons. Too bad the ECB can't monetize those when it runs out of Bunds to buy.
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Bored of Greece. Need some more Ebola porn.
Let´s throw the Greeks under the bus already and move on. They are not worth wating too much time.
Greece will be bailed out.
Greece will Grexit.
Greece will be bailed out.
Greece will Grexit.
Greece will be bailed out.
Greece will Grexit.
Get used to the back and forth propaganda, rumors & constant stream of villainy to buy more time for the parasites/insiders to whipsaw markets.
It's almost like this whole European Union thing was a bad idea from the start.
“The Greeks are digging their own graves,” warns one EU official.
You can't bluff after you've already played your hand.
"...and by 'their own' I mean the European banks'" he went on to say.
Somebody is going to invade Greece
If they run out of trial balloons, they can use trial condoms. Trojans, anyone? ;-)
Looney
Puerto Rico...the Western Greece.
Judge Threatens Plan for Puerto Rico to Avert Financial Catastrophe
http://www.cnbc.com/id/102412830
Secret U-Boats being loaded for ECB bankster evacuations to Argentina..
Oh, that doesn't work anymore now either..
Would you believe... Belize!
Many, many, times PR could have voted to become part of the Union. Could-have-been the 51st state.
Greece was EU unionized with "proper" arrangements (via GS prenups)...and see what happens ?
"berserk" and "no plan" are pretty accurate descriptions for the state of the Brussels technocrats at this point. After all, they are absolutely not used to be openly resisted and questioned by a popular government. Go, Syriza, go!
"Greeks Digging Own Graves" ...... HUH ???
The "VAMPIRE SQUID" Has Already Dug ALL The Graves...
"Digging their own graves..." comment is priceless. The EU holds all the cards... sure they do. First it was TBTF banks, but Greece is upping the ante to TBTF countries. I maintain, they will get debt forgiveness, but it will be called something else.
I dunno, man - if Greece gets a pass, there will be a line forming up in a hurry. The parasites in Brussels can't afford to let one bleeting sheep get away or the other hosts might get "ideas"....
Shariah Law : Cut off right hands of all Greek males !
Bankers to the people: Schuld macht frei!
People's reply back to the bankers: Arbeit macht Frei!
You can't bluff after you've already played your hand.
You can if you're playing with a bunch of Magoo's!
Sharia Law: Interest is forbidden !
Bankers to the people: Schuld macht frei!
People's reply back to the bankers: Arbeit macht Frei!
Dont know those languages. I have heard no one mention possible derivitive exposures. zero hedge?
The reason why the Troika is so fucking pissed is because they don't want to admit how fucking stoopid they have all been in this exercise of futility from the day they admitted Greece to the EU. What's funny is that they are getting extorted and they know it. If I'm Germany however and looking at a half trillion Euro loss and the potential fuck you's from Italy/Spain/Portugal vs. a 1.3+ trillion Euro loss for bouncing Greece then I know I'm fucked. Yea for fucking socialism....what a shit show.
Does anyone honestly think that only 70 years after these nations monkey hammered each other while Hitler and others flayed their orchestra sticks they can be trusted to have a commonwealth financial dollar..??
I sincerely SINCERELY hope that Greece greases and butt fucks the EU all the way to the exit gate..
Bankers to the people: Schuld macht frei!
People's reply back to the bankers: Arbeit macht Frei!
AR-15 macht Frei
Thorazine und Clozaril machen Frei.
I could not have said it better myself. I'd love to hear Ghordo's take on this.
Well Greece Better Flush Twice, It's a long way to the deli counter and those delectible Turds/Wurst The Germans are going to have to swallow won't taste good with even MANY LITRES OF FINE GERMAN LAGER,,,
"If they run out of trial balloons, they can use trial condoms. Trojans, anyone?"
First come many trial balloons, and then the lead balloons.
History repeats in mysterious under-the-covers hidden ways.
Yes, Greeks in a Troyan horse in the EU.
Good old efficient strategy.
The Greeks also have the Telly Savalis option.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e50KIEfj7cc
NGOs and US State Department on the way.
Ukraine 2.0.
I wouldn't want to be on a plane with any Greek ministers.
Euro banks were digging. Greeks stopping them. This is not confined to Greece.
“The Greeks are digging their own graves,” warns one EU official.
You can't bluff after you've already played your hand.
So I guess, according to this one EU official, what Greece really needs to do is continue kicking the can down the road by endlessly borrowing more freshly printed "money" from banks (which costs the banks nothing to create), agreeing to continue Greek enslavement by endlessly paying interest on this created-out-of-nothing "money", and then transferring control of national assets to these banks, turning themselves into renters and not owners of their own country. That sounds like a great deal for the banks, but not so much for Greece.
+1
an exact description of what they intend for us all, great and small.
big problem with greece is that their methods are laid out in the light for all to see. that's the unforgivable sin to the banksters.
latest wow statistic showed that there is more debt than worldwide GDP, which to me means that a value equivalent to everything produced for multiple years has a bankster claim on it. this is not intended to stop until they can claim the entire world's property as their own, and every one of us as their slaves.
long boiled rope and lamp posts.
Great comments. That is exactly how the fed was created, giving banksters control over US fiat. They helped the US gov bankrupt itself and be bailed out 2 times. The second time demanding creation of the fed as a condition. Little by little this will give them ownership of everything and everyone else.
Yep pretty much.. I think you have it pegged. Greece is the awkward sibling because they realized after the 100th comedic shot to the head by big brother EU that they were simply going to run away.
ROFLMAO
I wish the Greeks would dig an icy ICELAND GRAVE for the EU banksters.
DEBT REPUDIATION, Greeks!
Until they go the way of Iceland, it's all one big Poker game, with each side anteing up with each turn.
Germans, "Abwarten, Tee trinken". An old saying, which basically means "Keep Calm, and maintain a Wait & See attitude", casue you're in a better position than others.
Greeks need to plan for the Afterlife, cause this will boil over in a few weeks or 6-12 months:
- In the case of the latter, the Banksters and Oligarchs will have an extra 6-12 months to keep buying up cheap Greek assets and RE.
- Time is NOT your friend, and you can't pull off the Band Aid slowly.
The Greeks are trying to climb out of the grave the EU has dug for them.
...and by "almost" you mean "most certainly"
I think you can remove the word almost. The EU was a bad idea from the start. The bigger the central government is, the harder it falls. Small local governemnts are much more efficient and dont steal as much from their citizens. They are quicker to chaneg and adapt to certain situations. Its only a matter of time before the EU goes the way of the soviet union. I also believe that the American Empire is going the way of the Roman Empire. Both Empire's had too many foreign wars. They both debased their currency to pay for the wars. They both had a politician that stood alone warning the citizens (Cicero and Ron Paul). We are being destroyed from the inside out just like Rome.
Protect your hard-earned wealth and stop storing it in funny money. Silver survived the collapse of the Roman Empire and it will survive the collapse of the American Empire (and the EU). A less intimidating way to get someone started are these candles with silver coins: https://www.etsy.com/shop/ScentSavers?ref=hdr_shop_menu
It's easy to see that a silver dollar is worth 17 times over face value. Even the most hard headed people can see the dollar eroding away to nothing.
The whole EU idea was planted by the US (to have some sort of United States of Europe), but the reality is that it does not work, the main issue here is that the countries are way too different in terms of everything, they are talking about "united" Europe - total rubbish, nothing is united, it's all disunited... totally different economies, politics, mentalities, levels of income, corruption - you name it! They want all decisions to be taken "democratically" with all 27 countries voting etc., all meetings and documents being translated back and forth into all languages (imagine the costs involved!), FFS, they have couple of meetings in Strasbourg JUST to please the French... it costs millions to bring all paperwork back and forth from Brussels... the whole Brussels system is a bureaucratic nightmare! These people are well paid, receive massive social benefits all paid for European taxpayer, - of course they will never admit any problem with the "unity" in Europe... the present EU model is not sustainable, the only way for it to work would be to install a dictatorship in Brussels, remove any independence from member states on key decisions and make everyone use EURO... that will never happen. The other option is for each European country to go its own way... like it was before... Brexit/Grexit or whatever will lead the way...
Irony here is that the weaker nations appear to hold all the power once "unified". lmao. Greece is stipulating its own conditions for a lifeline? I mean, lol.
A little oversight by the central planners back in the day. Of course, the EU wasn't a strategy to include nations into a common currency, it was designed to exclude some nations from growing and creating independent trade deals. It was, is, and will be a failed US brain-child union meant to solidify US hegemony while the US shipped jobs to other nations. Once the jobs left, political control over trade and currency usage was the only thing left to maintain USD reserve status.
Bankers shot themselves in the foot with this one. If the EUR crumbles, the USD is right behind it.
I think it might be even larger than that. I think what is happening is this: the larger the artificial creation of nation / trading block, the harder it is (and thus, the more force is required) to hold it together. As time goes by, and the instabilities and difficulties inherent in large, complex systems become apparent, still more force, subterfuge, and manipulations are required to hold it together. Eventually, the entire system is nothing more than one giant farce, sustained and held together not with wealth creation but rather with a massive fear-murder-lies-surveillance state of armies abroad and armed enforcers at home.
As the situation becomes ever more desperate, and as the impending collapse looms ever larger, the sociopaths ratchet the controls ever tighter, making productive activity impossible, adding more and more enforcers which make the system ever more top-heavy, and eventually it collapses.
And that is where we are now, and it is becoming apparent to ever more observers.
The oligarchs believe in their own omnipotence, so they cannot see their own failure, and never will.
You guys are over thinking this. Greece can default on the debt as they eventually must, AND KEEP THE EURO. There is no reason the 2 events must be linked.
All they have to do is stop paying. They are going through all the motions of renegotiation as any new gov should.
The hardball stance of the troika means this is finally being accepted. There won't be any dire consequences of a Greek default. TBTF banks will be bailed out as we always knew they would. Those derivatives won't be allowed to explode.
me over think something?
Mrs SWR will tell you I never do that...
you might be right but then what of Spain Italy Portugal...when Greece is forgiven everyone else stops paying
The Euro shows us that people really do not like hard money. We hear a clamor for gold as money but when we look at Europe we see where that gets us. Debts must be inflatable or political systems collapse (and I am not arguing against that but...). The ECB has an ace in the hole. It has gold on it's balance sheet. Even if it over prints it's currency it still has a fixed amount of gold. How that fact plays out should be interesting.
Twilight of The Empire
It would have been a good idea if the the Euro was simply a mechanism to settle trades against different currencies.
There's an important distinction between the European Union and the Eurozone. People often wrongfully conflate them.
Norway opted to stay out of the Euro experiment, but I've been a long-time admirer of the EU as a political project. The Eurozone, by contrast, is something I've always been rather suspicious of. With good reason, as it turns out.
There's plenty of mixed feelings to be had about this affair.
"It's almost like this whole European Union thing was a bad idea from the start."
It´s what happens when outgoing politicians want a fucking "legacy" and push half-baked ideas into reality. Helmut Kohl is the asshole who forced the German public to accept the Euro without any public referendum. He even admitted to acting as a dictator in order to get it done: https://euobserver.com/political/119735
The EU was never ready for a single currency, not with all the different economic systems and cultures, and to this day, the compatability between the various systems is still as non-existant as it was almost two decades ago.
What sucks is that the people just fucking let themselves be trampled by this guy. Consequently, the Germans are again the bad ones, are on the hook for hundreds of billions of euros in past loan guarentees, and traded a solid currency (which was also nearly halfed from the get go) for one now being debased by a former Goldman-Sachs acolyte.
That's what happens when you give/lend money to the FSA and corrupt gubmint officials.
I'm sure the losses will be passed on to innocent workers throughtout the EU or, even worse, covered by hard working merikans.
Wow, I had no idea my snarky little comment was going to strike such a chord in this thread.
Helmut Kohl.... I completely forgot about that guy. Thank you for the refresher. It's all coming back to me now. He was definitely one of the prime instigators involved in ramming the Euro down everyone's throat. If Germany hadn't done it, obviously the common currency would have happened in the first place. Is he still alive? Somebody should "thank" him properly.
I was the US national service manager for a Japanese company back in the day and by 1991 our company, based in Japan obviously, started refocusing it's efforts toward the coming unification of Europe. They believed as a single market Europe would be far more profitable than the US market. It's important to remember that the 'European Dream' was looked at through rose colored glasses back then even by the Japanese who if you recall were supposed to have ruled the world in the near (back then) future.
We saw what happened to the Japanese over time, and Europe will at some point be in the rear view mirror, as well. And by then the collective meme will simply be 'WTF were they thinking'.
"We saw what happened to the Japanese over time, and Europe will at some point be in the rear view mirror, as well."
With all the derivatives and crushing debt levels throughout the world, there won´t be any rear view mirror to look through, because no one will be driving ahead looking back. It will all just end up like The Road, with remnants of nations scavenging, slaughtering the weak, and living in fear.
It´s so ironic that the one or two possible nations on this Earth who may eek their way through the upcoming Great Reset, with any chance of a future, are ruled by totalitarians.
Fascinating background reading to the “Pan Europa” EU project here:
The Coudenhove – Kalergi project. The genocide of people of Europe
http://www.hellasforce.com/en/the-coundenhove-kalergi-project-the-genocide-of-people-of-europe/
Both Golem Van Rompuy and Mutti have received the Counden Kalergi Prize for their 'excellent contribution to the process of forcing populations into supra-national failing experiments':
European Council
On 16 November 2012 , was awarded to the President of the European Council, Mr. Herman Van Rompuy European prize Coudenhove-Kalergi 2012, at a special conference in Vienna , to celebrate 90 years of the Pan Europa movement. The prize is awarded every two years in leading personalities , for his excellent contribution to the process of European integration .
The decisive factor in the awarding of the prize was the balanced way in which President Van Rompuy performed his duties in the new position of President of the European Council , which was established by the Treaty of Lisbon . Handled this particularly sensitive leadership and coordinating role with the spirit of determination and reconciliation , and stress was also virtuosic arbitration on European Affairs and the unfailing commitment to European moral values ??.
In her (sic) acceptance speech , Mr Van Rompuy described the unification of Europe as a peace project. The importance of this concept , which was also the focus of his work Coudenhove-Kalergi, remains the same timely after 90 years .
The award bears the name of Count Richard Nicolaus von Coudenhove-Kalergi (1894-1972), philosopher , diplomat , publisher and founder of the pan-European movement ( 1923 ). The Coudenhove-Kalergi was a pioneer of European integration and popularized the idea of a federation of European states in his works.
Since 2000 , among the winners of the award include the Federal Chancellor of Germany Angela Merkel (2010) and the President of Latvia Vaira Vike-Freiberga, (2006)."
Break, unite, break, unite, break unite...each time the scope is broader, toward the 'going global' prison farm, using thesis/antithesis/synthesis to lever ordo ab chao.
It's like they didn't think big enough, new world order will surely solve all the problems.
If only Putin would roll over and squeal lahk a PIIG...
Both.
It's all good.
Those who can't remember the past are doomed to repeat it.
Germany would still be in debt if it weren't for the Marshall Plan after WWII.
Germany would never have been in debt if not for what happened after WWI...
If you are going to quote history, you must create at least a fully contextual claim.
The Marshall Plan...hah!
Germany and Japan raced ahead for one reason ALONE... NO MILITARY!!! Which was obviously a/the plan, but I digress.
And Japan for it's foisted upon free Energy nuclear moster, but I digress further.
Bankers going berserk...fantastic...
No military in Germany? You´re clueless. There was a standing 500.000 men army in Germany, the second largest tank army in the world next to the Russians till the early 1990ies.
And Greece got 4 times as much Marshall funds than Germany per capita. And about 100 billion Euros in aide from the EC/EU since the mid 1980ies. All that was wasted in that bottomless pit called Greece.
I bet you Germans are really pissed that Greece had to go into so much debt, thus weakening the Euro making YOUR products look better in world markets.
If not for the PIGS, German products would be good, AND super expensive.
pods
The usual senseless drivel. Germany had a huge export surplus before the Euro, has huge export surplus within the Euro and would have a huge export surplus without the Euro again.
Not senseless. Just illustrating life as we know it now. The whole world runs on fiat (or more correctly debt backed currencies). If Germany was still using the DM with such an account surplus YoY, the DM would skyrocket and German goods would be more expensive.
Not faulting Germany, just saying that nobody is innocent in this competitive devaluation scheme going on.
Germany benefitted by this union as it would not be alone in creating more Euros to keep their currency competitive with others around the world.
It is just math.
pods
So Germany should be thankful to Greece for sucking billions from them?
Are you an economist by chance?
That is the problem.
If Greece (or the other PIGS) did not create more of these Euros, Germany would not get that benefit in terms of currency arbitrage.
And it is not Greece sucking billions, it is the EU banks that are doing that. They are just using Greece as a proxy.
Did you think that AIG sucked billions from the USA? Or was it the banks that set up AIG as the fall guy?
Germany and all the rest of the EU knew that Greece could not pay these loans back. Hell, they knew Greece did not meet the criteria to enter into the EU.
But they were let in?
So what does that tell you?
If Germany is not happy with the terms of their being in the EU, well, there is the door. Then Germany can be a righteous exporter using the DM. The Swiss found out just how easy it is to get utterly fucked by going against the debt flow by unpegging the swissie to the Euro.
An economist? No, I work for a living.
pods
We have pure Fiat to thank for Creative Finance...the banksters just implement the PLAN.
By fiat.
The PLAN is a non-democratically externally developed Entity...it lives ! (like Frankenstein's Monster).
we are lazy and allowed it.
Physical currency backing would stop all the "creative" finance, dead in its tracks.
Berserk, yes.
It tells us that the Euro is a political idea that costs Germany AND OTHER NATIONS billions.
It is absurd to claim that Greece is doing Europe a favour by being a leech.
I guess reading is not your strong suit?
Care to address any of my points?
Maybe you are one of those balanced budget guys who wants to pay off the national debt? (I get a kick out of those types)
I am saying that Greece was added to the EU with a wink and a nod (read fraud, helped by GS). Europe (and banks) needs as many users of the Euro as possible, as it is still a fractional reserve, debt backed currency.
Why do you think the EU wants to keep expanding? That way the amount of debt can go up but it is spread out more evenly.
Why would anyone attempt to renegotiate debt that all parties know is impossible to be paid off?
Because the banks need to keep this charade going for as long as they can.
People are now just pissed because Greece knows this fact and called the EU's bluff.
pods
I adressed your point.
You claim that wasting billions into a black hole called Greece somehow benefits Germany AND OTHER NATIONS.
Which is absurd and everyone knows it.
The debt is also not held by banks, but by other european nations. So wrong again.
I claim that Germany benefitted from having as many nations as possible use the Euro as the unit of account.
And banks will certainly benefit from not having Greek debt defaulted (hard default) on.
To address your strawman, yes, all those in the Euro who have outstanding debt will benefit from not allowing Greece to default. Why do you think they are trying their hardest to not allow default?
Because if a large portion of Euro debt goes kaboom it will make it more difficult to service existing debt as when the debt gets erased, so do the assets.
Why do you think they are scared shitless of "deflation" in Europe? (meaning debt destruction through default)
pods
It's not only a question of "Germany" and "Greece". On each side there are very diferent forces, instesets and classes.
Plus, there are geo issues like NATO membership, the war for the gas lines. Even a religious-cultural layer; Europe is roman legacy, not greek. Come on, they are ortodox christians using cirillic alphabet... and they were part of Otoman empire up to 1835? (not sure).
Reducing all this to "Germany vs. Greece", like two players of Risk or Monooly looks too simple, dont' you think so?
It's not only a question of "Germany" and "Greece". On each side there are very diferent forces, instesets and classes.
Plus, there are geo issues like NATO membership, the war for the gas lines. Even a religious-cultural layer; Europe is roman legacy, not greek. Come on, they are ortodox christians using cirillic alphabet... and they were part of Otoman empire up to 1835? (not sure).
Reducing all this to "Germany vs. Greece", like two players of Risk or Monooly looks too simple, dont' you think so?
Your math forgets the input side of the export equation.
Your math, thus sucks.
Germany had a huge export surplus before the Euro, has huge export surplus within the Euro and would have a huge export surplus without the Euro again.
Really.
Then explain to me what the Swiss' problem was/is?
Swiss are rich as fuck, you idiot.
Amen to that IronLead...and fucking rich is really rich.
The Swiss problem is a huge capital inflow, to much for an economy so small like Switzerland. The problem is not export outflows.
I think it's time to hear again what Mr Panos has to say to the EU [in an exclusive interview]:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zvl9N9GdraQ
Oh, and the huge capital inflow and it's second round effects have no significant influence on exports?
And somehow a destruction of the Euro would also have no, or no more than short-lived effects on Germany's exports?
Since you seem to such a smart person you know that Swiss exports colllaps because the Swiss Franc is overvalued 50% because if the capital inflows that have nothing to do with exports, but with the role of the Swiss Franc as a safe harbour. But in the case of Germany with a own currency (that´s what we are discussing here) that wouldn´t be the case because the German export surpluses themselfs wouldn´t create such an insane overvaluation of a currency. And by that the German export industry wouldn´t be hurt like the Swiss today.
Hmm, cyclical logic.
German export surpluses themselfs wouldn´t create such an insane overvaluation of a currency
Now suddenly only export surpluses can create an overvaluation of a currency??
How was that again what happened to the Swiss?
Just reread my comment. Seems you´re not such a smart person.
That's all the ad hominem you've got?
Son I am disappoint
The swiss are rich, you idiot.
I am sure everyone would like to have their "problems" including Germany.
So what was YOUR point again?
Have to agree with wolferl! The Germans will do well with or without the Euro because they do those four letter word things like save and work. For those who think Germany would be screwed by a DM that would be too strong, el wrongo. Most if not all German debts whether public or private are in Euros...so if your currency tripples in values...one prints three times as much money and pays the debt off entirely in the cheaper currency. Problem solved for the producers. The free shit army on the otherhand, well, the free shit just ran out. Back to work boys and girls.
Woferl,
German re-unification was in 1990.
Are you (misleadingly) including the armed forces of East Germany in your
claims about the standing army and the tank army?
No, i don´t. West Germany had a standing 495.000 men army till 1990. The eastern German forces were another 300.000 or 400.000 men in addition. Heck, just google it, have a look at wikipedia.
West Germany had a standing 495.000 men army till 1990.
That number is correct.
It might be noteworthy though that a large proportion of those (2/3 if I remember correctly) were conscripts who just waited for their "Grundwehrdienst" to pass.
Lol, you are so clueless. Being one of those "conscripts" from the late 1980ies, all of us received a full infantry training on all standard weaponry of the German army and advanced training on special weapons systems. That´s why Germany still has a potential of several million trained soldiers ready for combat if necessary.
Sorry to tell you I was one in the mid-80's.
Ok, I only did Instandsetzung-Kompanie, but the material (weapons, vessels, personal equipment) we were using and seeing (including twice support for LeoII and Luchs in HanMuenden) was mostly past it's due date or even complete crap from the start.
And the few good pieces would be sitting ducks as no ground-based Flugabwehr was present in meaningful numbers.
That was quite a downstep from the show the Bundeswehr had put up when my school visited some "Tag der offenen Tuer" where they demonstrated training on the MILAN - I didn't even see a single one of those from a distance during my W15.
I shot my G3 rifle maybe 10 times on a shooting range, 2 times did 20 rounds on an MG3 without any practical training whatsoever, and one day the Kompaniefuehrer decided everybody should shoot his P1 in competition - damn I made second place without ever having shot a pistol before in my life, and only lost out to the Kompaniefuehrer because I had no idea where the trigger pressure point was on my first shot.
But so much for the "full infantry training on all standard weaponry"...
Note:
It would really help your credibility if you wouldn't stick out your neck so far, and emanate this "I'm really full of yourself" most of the time.
PS:
You might want to compare the German "standing army" to Switzerland, where they really do reserve trainings regularly for everyone (at least up to 2007, not sure about nowadays.)
Sorry to hear you just made it to some transportation unit. Poor health? And you think your personel experience in a transportation unit makes you an expert for combat troops in the German army? Seems you´re pretty full of yourself. You shouldn´t point with a finger at others, you know, those four finger thingy ...
Yeah, especially if you cannot grasp the difference between Nachschub and Instandsetzung...
Happy to hear Germany is in such competent hands when it comes to defending it, for example at the Hindukush!
Inst, those guys who are truckin´ our spare parts around. But hey, if you are so proud of your "Waffengattung" i give you that. I´m pretty sure you guys can kill our enemys with a screw driver.
I'm always happy to defer to the Panzergrenadiere that you must have been part of. Above all you received that full infantry training you were proudly referring to earlier.
Actually i´m pretty sure everyone in the Bundeswehr got a decent "Grundausbildung" in infantry tactics in the Bundeswehr back in the 80ies. Even my brother did, who was a medic. And no, i´m no PG, we usually didn´t drive into mission.
Yes, berserk describes congress, wall street and bankers. The loaned money was funny money. The interest on it is blood money and a form of tyranny.
You mean Germany would not have ended up hosting 21 US bases. Debt is a tool.
On Oct. 3, 2010, Germany finally paid off all its debt from World War One. The total? About 269 billion marks, or around 96,000 tons of gold.
"In 1953, following the end of the Second World War, West Germany agreed at a conference in London to pay off its debts from before World War II, and in return was allowed to wait until reunification before paying €125 million in outstanding interest owed from 1945-1952. In 1990, the Berlin wall fell and Germany started paying off that interest—the very last of which was paid in October 2010 on the 20th anniversary of reunification."
All assets to be valued in terms of GOLD by a banker/creditor committee according to the original terms of the Treaty of Versailles. And so the worm turns.....
When these commies are done with the Troika I think I'll hire them to negotiate with my mortgage company.
1. You, my banker friend, will give Mr. red pill a bridge loan so he can pay his bills for the next six months.
2. During that time you will not charge interest on his mortgage or the bridge loan
3. We will use that six month period to discuss how big of a loss you have to swallow for Mr. Redpill to remain a customer.
4. And you'll do it all because we'll burn your bank down if you refuse.
Sound about right?
4. And you'll do it all because we'll burn my house down if you refuse.
Sign here. And here......and........
Not just "my house". The whole fucking neighborhood.
Why are you saying that Greece will be bailed out?
Don't you really mean the Banksters who got huge profits loaning to Greece will be bailed out?
That is WHY they got HUGE returns, because the probability of default was HUGE.
Let the market work. Banksters can go to hell.
Lies, more lies and damn bullsh*t from all these Eurobueacratic t*rds
Yup time for a hot war sumwhere to really get the investment juices flowing and get the DOW to 20,000
Wolferl, You are being spiteful. The Greeks were thrown under a bus a long time ago.
For weeks I have been saying the problem is not financial or political, nor can it be solved with this incessant posturing. This problem was created by the banksters in the late 70s/early 80s.
The core problem is:
If they get a bailout, the old ways return. If they do not, they sink to the bottom of the ocean or try to get some scraps from someone else. They can't go it alone. Then, the new "master" will be kind and generous for a while until ............... As a leader, you do not want your country/people to be in this position. It is not desireable. Unless, of course, your intention was to throw them under a bus all along (and that is exactly what happened).
The big mistake people make is to blindly follow politicians who are there to trick them and not to see them flourish. (Obama comes to mind as well)
The only truthful and meaningful thing the new government has said is that it will take years to rebuild Greece. The rest is horse shit, posturing and lies. (extension or no extension, bailout or no bailout, haircut or no haircut)
I acknowledge the Greeks need to learn a hard lesson as it's the only way this will not be repeated. You, on the other hand, seem to enjoy their pain and suffering. There is a big difference there and I find your position to be deplorable.
"The Greeks were thrown under a bus a long time ago."
Very true. And over and over again. And those stupid idiots still don´t learn anything.
It's people like you that bring out the worst in others.
You sound like a born dictator. You'd keep people under your thumb for as long as you could. Are you sure you are on the right website?
So maybe we should have let the Russians have you after the war? That would've been fun right? We saw how great East Germany turned out.
Instead you swallowed your lumps, got help and rebuilt a powerhouse. Hard lesson - great payoff!
Nobody else deserves this chance?
Who is "we"? Please elaborate. And the Russians had a great deal of us Germans after WWII, and the `Muricans and Russians and others committed a genocide against 10 million Germans. We Germans are far away from being treated nicely after WWII.
We were a powerhouse long before WWII and WWI and didn´t needed help. And that is true even if the `Muricans needed the West Germans so badly to fight the cold war, so they gave some capital to kickstart the West German economy.
The Greeks got about 100 billion Euro in aide from the EC/EU since the mid 1980ies, about 50 billion out of this is from Germany. Pretty much all of that is wasted. Don´t you think this is more than enough "chances"?
I have never questioned the German peoples' ability to excel. I find Germany to be a remarkable place actually. Would you consider Germany's historical choices wise?
What did you expect after WWII? A warm hug?
You are correct about the Greeks taking in money and squandering it. Bankster tricks aside, they will squander their own money if the leave the Euro, they will squander Rubles, Yuan etc. The place is a black hole. I know that. The place needs to be rebuilt from the ground up.
Maybe you can understand this:
East Germany was producing Trabant and you were making BMWs. Same people. Same ability to excel, yet very different results. Why?
So, Greece today is a Trabant. The first step to meaningful and lasting change is for someone to tell them that and for them to realize it (naturally this isn't happening) The rest can be worked out over time.
You want to push them off a cliff and scream "fuck you" as they are falling. If they fall on their own, they fell. If that is what they choose, fine. No reason for hate and even less reason to wish and hope for the worst possible outcome.
Starting a war and not winning it is always a bad choice in history. But history doesn´t end and most of the time you get a chance to make good on your loses. If you as a people are able to learn from history. If not you´re doomed. And that brings us to Greece.
Greece is just the basket case in the EU. And a country like Greece that spills their hatred over another EU members, threatens the other members with a breakup of the EU and it´s institutions just to get some money, declares all treaties and written arrangement as invalid and doesn´t comply anymore has simply no place in a community of civilized countries and states. Frankly, i don´t care if my country loses a few billion Euro over a "Grexit", actually i´m happy to pay as a German taxpayer AS LONG AS THAT LYING, CHEATING THIRD WORLD COUNTRY CALLED GREECE GETS OUT OF MY UNION AND THE EURO. As a German, and that´s my lesson from history, the EU is much to precious for peace around my country to let some stupid idiots in Greece, who are culturally much nearer to the Russians anyway, threaten to destroy it. So let´s throw them out already, they proofed they don´t belong to this western European Union anyway.
Just when I thought we started having a civilized discussion, you started with the hate again.
Oooooh, you mean like those German guys that decided they didn't want to stick to the treaty of Versaille?
Since this is going nowhere ............
Well, if you think the treaty of Versailles and the EU are pretty much the same, you´re right, this is going nowhere ...
Shhhh, Flounder is napping.
Vix is waking up.
The Kraken is outside the door, gently knocking.
The house of cards is set and waiting.
Which domino will crash into the house of cards ?
These things take time. The first domino fell in 1971 (US perspective).
The pin on the metaphor grenade has been pulled.
Is there a cliche contest on Zero Hedge I do not know about?
Jaws!
"Yer gonna needa bigger econonmy ..."
Thinking the drama is just now starting to pick up.
Show Time. Get your popcorn.
Expecting some wild market swings with each news release, true or not.
Bad, bad Greeks! They don't want to play with us anymore!
I'm really curious how long it will take them to grasp that the game is definitely over.
I would like to see topless greek female rioting. That would spice things up.
RIP Loukanikos...
Greek women under 30 can be hot.
Not so much afterwards....
Regardless of a woman's ethnicity or nationality - if you wouldn't fuck her mother, don't marry her.
Now ya tell me....
It had to be said, for the children...
So what you're saying is I gotta score me some good MILFs and then try to hook up with their daughters?
That's why I liked Mrs Robinson.
and will be getting cheaper!
Well don't hold your breath. That news got blacked out as soon as the first military humanitarian plane for Africa left the tarmac....
Here ya go:
Mistrust and machetes thwart efforts to contain Ebola in Guinea When Red Cross pickups crawl through the streets of the Guinean town of Lola in search of Ebola victims, crowds of women gather to shoo the medical workers away, young boys throw stones and angry men reach for their machetes.http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/health/mistrust-and-machetes-thw/164...
Better yet, how about someone in Greece gets Ebola?
Greek porn where all the actors have Ebola? Film crew in hazmat suits?
Sooooo, none of them really had "a plan"
(backs out of burning building)
Agree, We need an out of control Ebola outbreak in Brussels.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that Brussels is pretending that what Greece is doing is all berserk and without a plan because it's not what they want to hear. Sounds to me like the eurocrats aren't very happy so they'll use the media to project their claim that Greece is the one who has no plan or is acting crazy.
The party with the serious vested interest in the outcome is always the one who tries to deflect back on what they suggest is the 'problem' in an attempt to place blame on anyone but themselves.
The louder the rhetoric from Brussels the more the threat to the status quo is real, and heaven forbid someone upset the eurocrat apple cart, we can't have that.
Digging their own graves, that's laughable really, Greece was already digging their own grave sidling up to Brussels and the IMF to begin with.
agree... we knew they can't pay it back, which means it won't be paid back, which means their creditors are screwed
game over EU, move on
Ebola is sooo last year. This season its all about whooping cough.
Have you signed up for your obamacare yet? Do it! Do it now! NOT NOW, RIGHT NOW!
The dysfunctional family always blames the family member who tells the truth.
Ain't it the truth
Blame the messenger.
Plutarch: "The first messenger that gave notice of Lucullus' coming was so far from pleasing Tigranes that he had his head cut off for his pains; and no man daring to bring further information, without any intelligence at all, Tigranes sat while war was already blazing around him, giving ear only to those who flattered him...".
I think it does come down to Greece being the first one to tell the EU that number one Greece is Bankrupt and can no pay. Number 2 is implied by number 1, The EU will face major banking shocks as those all over the EU unable to meet the debt obligations are going to do like Greece.
The deperation and the anger at EU headquarters is evident in the latest press releases from EU Brussels. Real anger that their Bankers who hold all these crap loans may face default.
Trying to run the EU on a Debt Bubble did not work. What is it they don't understand.
I still say a Coup in Greece is possible. The Greek Armed Forces are NATO, which means they are American armed forces, and respond to command from Washington, nowhere else.