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Ukrainians Rage Against Military Draft: "We're Sick Of This War"
Submitted by Justin Raimondo via Anti-War.com,
When Ukrainian army officers came to the Ukrainian village of Velikaya Znamenka to tell the men to prepare to be drafted, they weren’t prepared for what happened next. As the commanding officer was speaking, a woman seized the microphone and proceeded to tell him off: "We’re sick of this war! Our husbands and sons aren’t going anywhere!" She then launched into a passionate speech, denouncing the war, and the coup leaders in Kiev, to the cheers of the crowd.
What she did is now a crime in Ukraine: the only reason she wasn’t arrested on the spot is that the villagers wouldn’t have permitted it. But in Ukrainian Transcarpathia, well-known journalist for Ukrainian Channel 112 Ruslan Kotsaba has been arrested and charged with "treason" and "espionage" for making a video in which he declared: "I would rather sit in jail for three to five years than go to the east to kill my Ukrainian brothers. This fear-mongering must be stopped." Kotsaba may sit in jail for twenty-three years, the prescribed term for the charges filed against him.
Kotsaba’s arrest is part of a desperate effort by the Ukrainian government to intimidate the growing antiwar and anti-draft movement, which threatens to upend Kiev’s dreams of conquering the rebellious eastern provinces. Kotsaba’s particular crime, according to prosecutors, was in describing the conflict as a civil war rather than a Russian "invasion." This is a point the authorities cannot tolerate: the same meme being relentlessly broadcast by the Western media – that an indigenous rebellion with substantial support is really a Russian plot to "subvert" Ukraine and reestablish the Warsaw Pact – now has the force of law in Ukraine. Anyone who contradicts it is subject to arrest.
Also subject to arrest, and worse: the thousands who are fleeing the country in order to avoid being conscripted into the military. In a Facebook post that was quickly deleted, Defense Minister Stepan Poltorak wrote: “According to unofficial sources, hostels and motels in border regions of neighboring Romania are completely filled with draft dodgers.” President Petro Poroshenko, the Chocolate Oligarch, is readying a decree imposing possible restrictions on foreign travel for those of draft age – which means anyone from age 25 to 60. Ukrainians may soon be prisoners in their own country – but they aren’t taking it lying down.
Draft resistance is at an all-time high: a mere 6 percent of those called up have reported voluntarily. This has forced the Kiev authorities to go knocking on doors – where they are met either with a mass of angry villagers, who refuse to let them take anyone, or else ghost towns where virtually everyone has fled. In the Transcarpathia region of western Ukraine, entire villages have been emptied, the inhabitants fleeing to Russia to wait out the war – or the fall of the Kiev regime, whichever comes first. "It may seem a paradox," says Transcarpathia’s chief recruitment officer, "but from the western Ukrainian region of Ternopyl people have fled to Russia in order to escape army conscription." The frantic Ukrainian regime is now contemplating conscripting women over 20.
Poroshenko’s military mobilization is due not only to numerous setbacks in the east – Ukrainian troops are being pushed back on all fronts by highly motivated rebels defending their own towns and villages – but also because thousands are deserting, throwing down their arms and fleeing to Russia. In response, the Ukrainian parliament has passed a law authorizing local commanders to shoot deserters on the spot.
With Poroshenko’s war looking like a major disaster, one that could easily topple his EU/US-installed regime, the War Party in the US is turning up the heat, demanding that Washington provide Kiev with arms. Sen. John McCain is – naturally – leading the charge, but prominent liberals are also in the front ranks, with leading scholars of the Brookings Institution recently calling for heavy weapons to be sent. That provoked a response from a dissident within Brookings, former State Department official Jeremy Shapiro, who argues that the Ukrainian conflict is a civil war that cannot have a military solution, and is more than likely to provoke a dangerous military confrontation with Russia.
The Obama administration is under considerable pressure from within the President’s own party to start arming the Ukrainian army, but America’s European allies are reluctant to let this war go on much longer, especially now that their sock puppet Poroshenko is increasingly unpopular. With protests erupting all over western Ukraine, Germany’s Angela Merkel is openly opposing escalation of the war. She made that clear at a recent conference in Munich, where Merkel spoke after returning from talks with Russia’s Vladimir Putin and French President Francois Hollande. Meanwhile, on the sidelines, McCain was telling reporters: "If we had provided Ukraine with weapons they wouldn’t have had to use cluster bombs."
They don’t call him "Mad John" for nothing.
The United States is providing the Kiev regime with military training, and we already have American boots on the ground there, ostensibly to "strengthen the rule of law." What that means in practice is that we are bolstering a government that has declared war on its own people, and is rapidly closing off all legal means of dissent – charging political opponents with "treason," banning political parties, and unleashing ultra-nationalist mobs on anyone who dares dissent. While the US State Department regularly canoodles with Russian "dissidents" who defile Orthodox churches and bare their breasts for the Western cameras, you won’t hear Marie Harf so much as mention Ruslan Kotsaba’s name. As far as I know, the Global Post is the only Western media outlet that has noted his existence – and I’ve not seen a single mention in English about his arrest.
Ukraine is a tripwire that could easily set off World War III – and US provocations are edging closer to that by the day. The crisis was initiated by Washington’s regime-change campaign which succeeded in violently overthrowing elected President Viktor Yanukovych, whose electoral victory was made possible by the criminal incompetence and outright thievery of his predecessor, US-supported Viktor Yushchenko. The so-called "Orange Revolution" led to economic chaos, rampant corruption, and the unleashing of a virulent nationalist current that has culminated in the rise of open neo-Nazis taking seats in the Ukrainian parliament. We are seeing its openly fascistic culmination in the current gang lording over Kiev.
All this was done in the name of sticking a finger in Vladimir Putin’s eye, whose great sin has been kicking out thieving oligarchs and opposing US pretensions to global hegemony. Washington’s ultimate goal is regime-change in the Kremlin, and the reinstallation of a Yeltsin-like sock puppet who, when Washington says "Jump!", will answer: "How high?"
That they’re willing to risk World War III in order to achieve their goal underscores the sheer craziness of US foreign policy. The latest official US "National Security Strategy" puts the new cold war at the center of Washington’s military-diplomatic vision – an emphasis so monstrously misplaced that it’s hard to believe they’re serious. Yet you had better believe it: this is what we can expect from a future Democratic administration, if one should come to pass, with Hillary Clinton taking her husband’s Slavophobia – remember the Kosovo war? – to new heights of unreason.
The US has no business interfering in Ukraine’s civil war, and no legitimate security interest in the question of who gets to administer Crimea – which has been Russian since the days of Catherine the Great. The idea that we are going to confront Russia over this issue is dangerous nonsense – and, unfortunately, it is just the sort of nonsense politicians of both parties find hard to resist.
There are even some ostensible "libertarians" who can’t resist the temptation to refight the cold war, notably the voluble and well-placed NATO-tarian faction of "Students for Liberty" (SFL), who denounced Ron Paul for his supposedly "pro-Putin" (i.e. anti-interventionist) statements on Ukraine. Ron is appearing at their upcoming "International Conference," with several of the loudest NATO-tarians in attendance: one hopes he’ll give them a good talking to, although perhaps a spanking is more appropriate for these noisy brats. These juvenile blatherskites claim "Compelling arguments can be made for both advocates of globalist and noninterventionist foreign policy positions," but aver that "Ron Paul has crossed the line." It is they who have crossed the line: no libertarian is or can be an advocate of a "globalist" foreign policy – because conquering the globe is, you know, a statist thing.
Of course now that Ukraine – where SFL held a conference – is jailing draft-resisters and clamping down on all dissent, we don’t hear a peep from these adolescent cold warriors. They talk a lot about "liberty," but not in places where it can get them into trouble.
The main danger to liberty and peace in the world isn’t in the Kremlin, or Peking, or North Korea – it’s right here in these United States of America, in the global epicenter of evil otherwise known as Washington, D.C. This, our "libertarian internationalists" claim, is vulgar "anti-Americanism," but these foreigners have little conception of what true Americanism is all about. The Founding Fathers of this country are rolling in their graves as the usurpers in Washington sully the good name of America with the blood of innocents worldwide and defile the Constitution in the process. True Americanism means opposing these monsters as they rampage over the earth and destroy our civil liberties at home – not dutifully echoing their rationalizations for endless wars of aggression.
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What if the Zio-orcs threw a war and everybody refused to serve?
She dioesnt want her sons and husband to die for a choclate billionaire oligarch who serves the CIA?
Where is her patriotism?
Look Ukraine if you don't go and fight then the war may be over befor America can start a war with Russia and that would just not be on now would it so be citizens and go and die for your country like you are meant to . PS how's siding with the EU working out after your 50% loss of saving's.
Let's all do this reset without WW-3, since we can't rebuild afterward without cheap oil (gone forever), there are no real resources to capture, and dead people can't follow orders, anyway.
Ever been to Chicago?
Of course the Ukies are sick of this war...who wants to suffer and die for Ukie Oligarchs, the USSA state department and a dysfunctional EU?
Imagine, it´s war and nobody shows up.
German saying.
What? The slaves no longer willing to kill or die for their captors? Absurd! Don't they know their regime has been chosen by God? How ever will the parasites survive without a host...
"draft age – which means anyone from age 25 to 60"
WTF? I went in the army at age 18.
All of the 18 yro's are in Poland or UK serving coffee in bars. They have been there since they were 16yro.
Loved her speech. She used words like "sheep" and "poison on TV" that makes me think she reads ZH.
You Go Girl!
God bless.
She was absolutely amazing. I hope Obama watches it but then again it might get her instated on his "Kill List".
No doubt our KIev allies will spare no effort in hunting her down and administering their Nazi justice...
Tough old broad. That's the kind of woman I'd want to have at my back. (But definitely not on my ass.)
The Parasites survive because they have infected and taken control of several hosts already.
I'm putting this on a t-shirt: "We grow tomatoes here, you think we gonna sell them to America?"
Western powers that be need a diversion and someone else to blame when the ponzi blows up.
This civil war will end up being a huge embarrassment not only for the ukie gov, but also for US (Obozo in particular) and West Europeans. America will never regain its status and goodwill capital lost in this total fuck-up. This is no dinky little country in the middle of the desert (pick your favorite from among Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, or whatever), nor a small patch of land hidden in the Balkans (like Kosovo). This is going to destroy the credibility of the American foreign policy (Vietnam style) and its so-called system of alliances, as it stands today. Just watch, and see...
U.S. credibility hasn't been destroyed already?
(And totally agree with you)
Agreed, she did a great job. Her words were on point. Wishing her and her community much safety and strength with their continued stance against those bent on destruction.
Just a thought: draft everyone and give them, including that woman, a weapon. Things could get peaceful very quickly.
The military draft is the fastest way how to get rid of the current Ukrainian government. Even Putin wouldn't be able to come up with anything better.
What about Chicago?
Loseing 90% off the price of all assets that cant go to zero and a right down of all debt will not likely be peaceful. Catastrophic failure of all carry-on effects. WW-3 will be the cover for a reset. Just with fewer cities. Radiation is already killing the pacific the largest source of food on the planet.
Rebuilding at this point is a dream for another time, and another people.
The radiation killing the Pacific Ocean is also spreading around the world on the jetstream. There will be no rebuilding after what comes next, because there won't be other people to do it.
Worldwide 100 years tops. 10 in North America.
not too important,
+1 enenews reported another finding on fuku's fuel rods and reactors this morning. the nightmare that refuses to be ignored.
With the oceans gone and no more sources of food from there in the coming years, that makes the rich black soils of Ukraine that much more desirable.
Yeah right. Keep living in fear you tool!
From ABC, where they don't even try to disguise the propaganda anymore:
"The incident [the explosion in Donetsk] comes amid heightened tensions in the region that has seen fighting for the past year as the Russian government has underhandedly supported the rebels in an effort to gain control of the country."
http://abcnews.go.com/International/watch-explosion-ukrainian-chemical-f...
A helpful link that might explain such out-in-the-open propaganda:
http://foreignpolicy.com/2013/07/14/u-s-repeals-propaganda-ban-spreads-g...
Those rascally Russians! Unlike the US measured and smart support for the rebels in Syria, Libya, etc...
Here is the executive summary form from a Ukraine TV channel showing the power of Ukrainian Laws of Physics.
http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/rigort/17193211/103471/103471_1000.jpg
The rebels are shelling themselves to make USkraine look bad.
Only a Latvian could believe such a thing.
I know a Lithuanian whos looking for a bridge, Brooklyn prefered.
Sounds like Viet Kraine
Or is that U Nam?
Regarding this type of draft, it comes to mind the insightful words expressed by Lone Wadi in The Outlaw Josey Wales :
I didn't know others hadn't surrendered. I didn't surrender, neither. But, uh, they took my horse and made him surrender. They have him pulling a wagon up in kansas, I'll bet.They need to wait till the women get close to the time of the month and offer them vhocolate for thier husbands and sons. My wife would surely go for that and could no imagine if she didnt get her monthly chocolate I would rather go to wat.
Sarc
It would have been funny if some security type would have taken the mic and said, in perfect English, "Get outta my face, please".
"Why of course the people don't want war. Why should some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece? Naturally the common people don't want war: neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country." -- Hermann Goering
fortune is not from candy, but prostitution, organs, white slavery, weapons, drugs,and personal gangs intimidate, beat, murder to seize/steal businesses.
"Red" mafiya...followed his Father in this...family name is Waltzman
Creamy chocolate is such a sweet and sootheing cover for Porkie's real business, isn't it? Apparently just enough to look past the gory filthy truth. He would gladly sacrifice half the youth of Ukraine with not a thought, other than "business is good, da?"
they did.....it was called Vietnam
Vietnam, oh that reminds me...
"If we had provided Ukraine with weapons they wouldn’t have had to use cluster bombs."
They don’t call him "Mad John" for nothing.
If I'm not mistaken, cluster bombs are a war crime, no? But when have silly things like International Law mattered recently?
Their use is a crime only when the losing side use them.
Here are some photos of the loading of 6 million pounds of munitions aboard the USS Stennis, which include a photo of the loading of pallets of CBU-99 cluster bombs:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-01-26/aircraft-carrier-stennis-has-bi...
Is this photographic evidence of international war crimes, provided by the US Navy themselves?
The real question is how much of this death load is Depleted Uranium munitions? That stuff is genocide in a casing.
Call it poetic (in)justice or pyrrhic irony for civlization but the poor lady actually understands free markets and capitalism better than most.
Your credit card will still be charged.
They gave a war and nobody came
Zor and Zam
Without Russia seizing Crimea and delivering weapons and soldiers to East-Ukraine there would be no war.
If Kiev had recognized the right of people to vote on their participation in a coup of Nazi's sponsered by the US government their would be no war.....there... fixed it for ya....
There was an election last year. And no Nazis in any significant number, you liar.
IronLead, I'm imparting this with all respect due to one of your ilk: fuck off, you ignorant fucking troll.
Are you really female or just a hairy russian sitting in his basement?
Now you fuck off.
Fed.gov should demand better trolling skills for the $7.25 an hour they're paying you; your efforts aren't even worth that pittance.
It's not Ironlead, it's Iron Head
Hey Ironhead, shouldn't you be fighting and dying somewhere in Debaltsevo instead of corwardly hiding behind a keyboard. No wonder you Ukie cowards are losing.
It's about time for someone to strap rifles on Nuland and the rest of the PNAC Zio Revolutionaries and let them start fighting their own wars.
Traitorist psychopathic scumbags.
Fun Ukie travel photos:
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=ukraine+nazis&qs=n&form=QBILPG&pq=uk...
The best Nazis US taxdollars can buy.
No amount of trolling skills will make up for a lack of substance.
Ukraine 'operation' is a disaster no matter how you spin it or troll your way out of it. Obama and his protégés in Kiev will have their asses handed over back to them by none other than the people of Ukraine as soon as they are fed up enough with this charade. I swear those jokers couldn't do any more favours to Putin than they already did, he will perhaps look like a saviour once again by the year end. Imbeciles.
I am just expressing my opinion. And I highly doubt you are female. Just a gut instinct but usually I am right with that.
'Ms.' indicates neither male nor female; that was the point of the prefix in the first place, troll.
NSA or GCHQ troll?
You smell over fiber optics dude.
Now go to your local NSA lair for some fresh trolling instructions.
2 weeks, 21 hours. I'm guessin' his ISP is in Kiev or Kharkov.
Langley?
Utah. The trolls are all Mormons now.
They're all Saints, dontcha' know, so it doesn't matter what they say/do/kill.
Although, there are lots of Mormons that want to turn off their power and water.
There must be a small group of demon worshipping Mormons that survive the vetting process, that hate all the other Mormons, and want to kill them all. Or was that some other group?
It's getting so hard to keep these demon worshipers straight.
I have never even heard of Langley, but you russian paid basement dwellers probably know your opposition better than me.
Good luck peddling your MSM/.gov rhetoric around here, assmaggot.
As I said before, being pro-russian on Zerohedge is like crying how tough you are while your mother holds your hand.
is your operation running low on dormant i.d.'s?
Nazi is an abstraction. A label. In reality all government is a bunch of totalitarian oligarchs who think they know what's best for everybody.
What is the purpose behind enslaving, and oppressing one group of people (via draft and charges of treason)? Is it perhaps to liberate another group of people who are "enslaved" and "oppressed?" How exactly does that work?
Damn straight! I'd take it a step further, and argue that "All political, social and religious groups and labels" are mere 'Flags of Convenience' to these Werewolves, Vampires* and Familiars**.
The elite totalitarian Oligarchs just keep getting richer, while laughing their asses off at the collective stupidity of the Pleb masses: Sheep are sheep, and always will be. Baah!
Looks like Revolutions typically result in only a TEMPORARY setback for the sociopathic Oligarchs, whose descendants eventually rise back up to rule over the new generation of sheep.
If you don't want to be Sheep or a Wolf, then maybe something else is a better alternative in the ecosystem. Something like a Shepherd, maybe. And maybe that's why there are so many (tax-exempt!) churches in the US? ;-)
* In a literary allegory... Vampires are Global Zionists, and Werewolves are Imperialist Oligarchs
** Select Christians and Jews are the Useful Fools and Familiars, who either benefit or take the heat/fall for their shadowy and insatiable Overlords.
FWIW:
'
G’day Pilgrims,
Almost no one apart from Brother Nathanael, emphasises that the Kiev COUP was a Jews’ COUP, just like the Jews’ COUP in Imperial Russia in 1917 which is always mislabeled the “Russian Revolution”. It wasn’t.
For those interested I list some of the Jews now in power in the Kiev Junta as a result of the murderous Kiev Putsch:
President-Poroshenko (Vlatsman) - Jew
President Turchinov (Kogan) - Jew
Prime Minister - Yatsenyuk (Buckeye) - Jew
Minister of Finance - Alexander Shlapak - Jew
Secretary of national security and Defence - Andrew Parubiy- Jew
Vice Prime Minister - Vladimir Groisman - a Jew
Interior Minister Arsen Avakov - Armenian Jew
Minister of Culture - Sergei Nischuk - Jew
Mason - Director of the National Bank - Stepan Kubiv - Jew
Head of the Administration of President - Sergey Pashinskiy- Jew
The main presidential candidates from the opposition:
Yulia Tymoshenko (Celia Kapitelman) - Jewish
Vitali Klitschko (Etinzon) - a Jew by his father
Oleg Tyagnibok (Frotman) - a Jew mom
Dmitry (Avdimou) Yarosh - Jew Hasid
See also this list of the so called nazi-regime in Kiev:
http://abundanthope.net/pages/Political_Information_43/Ukraine-SITREP-26th-January.shtml
Governor of Dnipropetrovsk Oblast: Ihor Kolomoysky - A Jew, the second or third richest person in Ukraine (after Rinat Akhmetov and/or Viktor Pinchuk) since 2006.
Kolomoysky has a triple Ukrainian-Israeli-Cyprus citizenship because dual citizenship is not recognized by Ukraine. Kolomoyskyi explained that: “The constitution prohibits double citizenship but triple citizenship is not forbidden.”
On 2 March 2014, amidst the 2014 pro-Russian conflict in Ukraine, acting President Oleksandr Turchynov appointed Kolomoyskyi governor of Dnipropetrovsk Oblast.
Two days later, Russian President Vladimir Putin described Kolomoyskyi as a “unique crook,” and said that the citizens of Dnipropetrovsk were not happy with his appointment as Governor of Dnipropetrovsk Oblast.
In contrast, The Daily Beast, a US publication, wrote in mid-June 2014 that Kolomoyskyi enjoyed the local population’s strong support.
In April 2014 Kolomoyskyi offered a bounty for the capture of Russian-backed militants and incentives for the turning in of weapons. He also is believed to have spent $10 million to create the Dnipro Battalion, and also funds the Aidar, Azov, Dnepr 1, Dnepr 2, and Donbas volunteer battalions.
Members of the Aidar Battalion “have been involved in widespread abuses, including abductions, unlawful detention, ill-treatment, theft, extortion, and possible executions,” according to Amnesty International, while the Azov Battalion was seen flying flags carrying symbols of a Ukraine neo-Nazi party, Patriot of Ukraine.
Russia is asking for Kolomoyskyi to be put on Interpol’s wanted list. On 2 July 2014 a Russian District Court authorized his arrest in absentia for “organizing the killing of civilians”. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ihor_Kolomoyskyi)
US liaison and sponser: Victoria Nuland (Nudelman) - Jewess married to a Jew.
http://fortruss.chatango.com/
See: Some of the Jews in power in the Kiev Junta:
http://abundanthope.net/pages/Political_Information_43/Some-of-the-Jews-in-power-in-the-Kiev-Junta.shtml
Peace and Blessings,
Ron '
http://www.realjewnews.com/?p=1004
Not really so shadowy, just seldom mentioned.
So what?! Rothschild chosenites run the USA and most other western countries, in the shadows.
Call it the 'opression ponzi'.
It's on the last leg as well.
Well hello, Mr. 2 weeks and 21 hours.
Hey, are the government benefits as good as they say?
Sorry, stepped on your comment. I sometimes get too excited.
This is an outsourced industry, like everything else. But, did you know that the East European trolls are paid in potatoes ? Hence, their efficiency...
nothing wrong with potatoes
but they can't help weak genetics that wander to ZH and post crap
Emelianenko brothers poor and ate nothing but potatoes
Liar? Guess you have not been keeping up on current events or have been watching to much MSM....if the truth is a lie then you are hopelessly lost...Leadass.
/rolls eyes
Yeah, so did 'Murika, a lot of change that did.
Ironlead. Your defecting here to ZH from CNN is laudable and a start. +1
Ironlead, not one man was lost in the return of Crimea to its centuries old border within Russia. The primarily Russian populace voted to reverse the 1954 annexation and return to Russia. There were no protest riots at that time and none today.
And you might consider--the Russians have their navy base on Crimea, wouldn't it be nice if NATO could get their grubby hands on it courtesy of Kiev? Do you really think that the Russians would just walk away and let NATO set up shop?
The only reason you're against this is because the media morons tell you what to think and you comply. If you want to blame someone don't look eastward toward Ukraine/Russia. Look at the idiots in DC who triggered this whole fight.
>>>the Russians have their navy base on Crimea, wouldn't it be nice if NATO could get their grubby hands on it courtesy of Kiev?
I hope that most ZHers are aware that the US Navy was actually soliciting bids for the renovation of buildings in Sebastopol for use by the USN; I suppose the USN wanted a local presence during the period before the Russian Navy was transitioned out of Crimea by Kiev. It's pretty funny in hindsight.
August, that is very interesting -- and not really surprising -- about the USN sniffing around Crimea for yet another precarious, money pit base. Do you have any links with more information?
>>>the USN sniffing around Crimea for yet another precarious, money pit base.
The below may not be the original posting of the "request for bid" by the USN, but it's all I can find with a quick Google search.
I have zero doubt that the US Navy knows a great deal about Sebastopol, and would like at least influence in the area. My understanding of the treaty governing the Straits is that non-litoral states cannot have bases* on the Black Sea coast (though their ships can visit). So the idea may have been to merely have an advisory and/or spying facility in Crimea.
https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=2bb691b61c59be3a681...
* Addendum: And the Nazi's never had submarine bases in Spain either; they just had German merchent vessels in Spanish harbours, loaded with torpedoes and diesel fuel.
And the moon is made of cream cheese
That's what Brian Williams said! Wow, it must be true!
.
Hey, he was there, and even tasted it, so he should know.
IronLead:
Crimea? It was always Russia's. Your trolling is pathetic.
Do you think that what the US is doing in the Ukraine is OK? Let's flip the script. Is it OK if Russia were to conduct their foreign affairs the same way that the US gov't does? Maybe Canada needs a pro-Russian PM.
Show me a map from before 2014 where Crimea was Russian. You can't, you liar.
Russia signed a treaty to respect the territorial integrity of Ukraine INCLUDING Crimea.
I heard you like maps, bro:
https://hallmouat.wikispaces.com/file/view/ussr.gif/140031087/ussr.gif
https://russianuniverse.files.wordpress.com/2014/06/territories-annexed-...
This one is even better, pre WWII doesn't even show the Ukranian border, and you can see how West Ukraine used to be Poland: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d1/Europe_in_1923.jpg
Idiots like Ironhead live in an alternate universe, where they are genetically descended from Nazi Venusians, and believe they are destined to rule all lesser species.
Ukraine has never been a sovereign nation
I am sure ironhead will not grasp that truth,
no reason, no logic..
You show a map from the USSR. Ukraine existed more than 20 years without the Soviet Union. Do you get your error or is logic not part of your brain?
Yes. Unless your fascist brethren start removing constitutional rights of the vast Russian majority that lives there.
BTW, Crimea was never part of Ukraine before 1954, when Khrushchev (conveniently, Ukrainian) appended it.
And, here's what bothers me: I understand that agencies like NSA or CIA are necessity. But man, the fact that they employ imbeciles like you is a terrible value for money.
Given the irrefutable facts/maps presented by Samsa above, what say you IronLead?
Are you willing to renege (because you're a "facts kinda guy"), or are you going to pivot and deflect (cause you're "something else")? Please respond.
p.s. This is an open question and challenge to all the Troll-meisters and "We're #1!" Exceptional kinda guys out there, BTW.
Noben
I think everyone is entitled to an opinion including FePb, as for Samsa, maps (and borders) change on a regular
basis. I cant be fucked cutting and pasting links to maps over the ages but Ukraine was independant for a short
while in 1917 and its borders stretched up to Rostov and into the Caucases and as far west as they are now just
'google it'. I've worked and lived in Ukraine so I have a rough idea on the situation. As for pivot and deflect, well theres a lot of
you out there doing just that.
He's been watching too much MSM
Another troll earning potatoes
Another one working for the NSA/GCHQ
I think this board as any other needs diverse views otherwise knuckleheads
wont have much to take the piss out of.
For the record, I dont work for any government, I dislike politicians. I hope Greece defaults,
I dislike bankers. I watch MSM (Mainstream Media & Moscow State media), somewhere between
the two sets of lies and half truths I try and form an opinion. If you dont like that opinion then....
You missed an option.
The UK army has seen the Novorossians in action and told the UK government that "there's no way we are going to go there, but we will fight them from the keyboards".
I give you:
UK soldier from the 101st keyboard brigade
http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/pandukht/17177466/813233/813233_600.jpg
Je Suis Chindits!
Samsa showed a map of the Soviet Union.
Crimea was ukrainian since decades and no map showed otherwise.
Bullshit, you moronic fascist pig.
That treaty you are referring to also stated that none of the signatories would interfere with the POLITICAL independence of Ukraine as well. I beleive the US and EU violated that months before the crimean referendum with their open support of regime change. They also insisted that , as part of the EU integration agreeement, a known fascist Yulia Tomoshenko be released from house arrest in Ukraine. Essentially allowing her to flee the country in exchange for the EU trade agreement. Of course, the socialists couldn't vote for that agreement with that stipulation. Therefore, the proposal was tabled which started the coup.
Something about agreeing with Gorbachev to not put NATO on Russia's doorstep, in return for a peaceful end to the USSR . . .
Everyone in Russian politics knows the West is fucking them. Ever met a Russian? I dare you to get up in his face and tell him you're fucking him, and he better well take it. Good luck. You, your family and your ancestors. They'll dig 'em up out of the ground and kill them again.
Nato is on Russias doorsteps since a long time.
And all those neighbours are more determined then ever that their decision was right.
Wonder why that is.
No legitimate government in Kiev
Crimea seceded
Saved themselves from Kiev red mafiya
Territorial integrity of Crimea is honored
Better look who violated Ukraine in real......
Without Russia seizing Crimea and delivering weapons and soldiers to East-Ukraine there would be no war.
Ironhead....remember the Noodleman tape....please try to keep up!
He's typing from his .gov script.
They dont pay them to think.
Without the overthrow of a democratically elected government there would be no war.
Especially since the next election in Ukraine was only 3 months away!
Ironlead ,you cannot be that stupid .
Perhaps he is engageing in a bit of ZH sarc?
Yes. Yes he can.
No. He's collecting a gubmint paycheck.
Stupid and government paycheck are not mutually exclusive concepts.
In fact, in certain sectors ....... it's mandatory.
"No matter how stupid you think the average American is,
know that half of them are dumber than that...."
-George Carlin-
Wrong. Without the "West" overthrowing Yanukovich as reprisal for Putin blocking a war in Syria there would be no war. Asshole.
And if the world had let Hitler consilidate control of the EUSSR and finish getting rid the Jews, there'd be no war either.
Just give the fascists what they want, and you are "free" to continue your slave existence.
Don't waste your time, people here are way too educated and informed. Go back to CNN, there might be an audience for your trolling.
Ironlead:"Without Russia seizing Crimea and delivering weapons and soldiers to East-Ukraine there would be no war."
Sez Mr two weeks ten hours shitbag troll.
Non-members can't see it but IronLeads party-line comment has 4 upvotes and 63 downvotes right now. It just goes to show that ZHers aren't much for swallowing MSM propaganda.
Fuck. You.
Look, solanine poisoning is nothing to fool around with. I'd get yourself to a doctor asap...
+1 for the oblique potato humor.
Of course, if he's a Latvian troll, he's probably built up a bit of a tolerance to potato-based alkaloids.
"Without Russia seizing Crimea and delivering weapons and soldiers to East-Ukraine there would be no war." -IronLead
Are you trying to be the new MDB (MillionDollarBonus) of irony, parody and sarcasm?
Surely no person with an IQ>85 can be that ignorant of the facts. Unless they are a paid Troll, or... a 'secret Tyler' juicing the blog posts and thus juicing the site ratings. (I say this because I've learned here that ANYTHING is possible, in a world where everything is manipulated).
I miss MDB and as for this troll I think he's funny.
Remember Bagdad Bob?
You know, it would be really sad if he was actually sincere....
Crimea seceded.
get lost pissant
Burn it, there is no other choice.
But wait....our ZWO leaders and lapdog media tell us this was a grassroots revolution, a coup from the peeples - they wouldn't be lying to us, would they?
Dex, I so wish you'd pay Porky and Yats a visit, and then take them out boating.
I'll chip in and pay for gas for the boat, or your fave culinary HW. ;-)
Could be dangerous. Ukraine and boats don't go together very well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcZgPzwFcgA
From US backed Kiev junta:
Either you are with us or we will kill you.
I WILL NOT COMPLY...........
kick that zionist puppet out of office. You have nothing but Zionist making Ukraine scorched earth. Atleast with the Russian puppet, people were living a life. This is what the Western fascists promote, lies, propaganda, chaos, war and bloodshed so they can pillage the country!
Oligarchs are the only winners in any war.
Yeah, since raping and pillaging went into disrepute, what's the point for the common man?
/s
In a nuclear war with Russia or China the U.S. oligarchs would be the first to die in the fireballs!!
Strangely, they do not think of themselves as oligarchs and they have absolutely no sense of responsibilty for creating the disfunctional mess that the U.S. government, which they control, has become.
Further, it would appear that they cannot imagine that they would be held responsible by some foreign power which they are causing the U.S. to attack. They think that they are invisible and untouchable.
That's how psychopaths roll, dawg.
FUCK YEAH! Good for her! Someone in this world still has it! HIZZUH!
Goes a long way to show how much more civilized those redneck Ukies actually are, vis s vis the zero chance of an American woman having the balls to say that in public.
So you won't see this Youtube upload on CNN.
Funny bc Youtube is like their only source now.
Lagarde's Brigade
The redskins.
The Cheetos
THERE ARE MORE OF US THAN THERE ARE OF THEM.
Never. Fucking. Forget. That.
Who are you referring to? Joos? neocons? the terrorists?
But you repeat yourself...
He means People! Numbers!... People willing to stand up and fight these assholes...Put down the dorm room bong and wake up Dope.
^^THIS^^