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Rising Interest Rates & Long Term Stock Returns

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Submitted by Lance Roberts via STA Wealth Management,

 

 

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Wed, 02/11/2015 - 13:50 | 5772094 wendigo
wendigo's picture

Raising rates might save the economy, but it will kill off the federal government. Sounds like a win to me.

Wed, 02/11/2015 - 13:53 | 5772113 Hitlery_4_Dictator
Hitlery_4_Dictator's picture

You guys didn't hear, this time IS different.  #raiseratesnow 

Wed, 02/11/2015 - 14:51 | 5772442 Spigot
Spigot's picture

Where in hell did Reggie's post go to???

Wed, 02/11/2015 - 13:57 | 5772132 AmericasCicero
AmericasCicero's picture

Itll take some banks with it too!

Wed, 02/11/2015 - 17:28 | 5773081 rocker
rocker's picture

Did not Zero Hedge go through a big post on Why Interest Rates Will Not Go Up ???

So why post this crap.  Is this the classic Flip Flop ??? 

Wed, 02/11/2015 - 13:52 | 5772103 Rehab Willie
Rehab Willie's picture

I have full faith in Calamity Janet (sarc)

Wed, 02/11/2015 - 13:53 | 5772110 rccalhoun
rccalhoun's picture

here comes a 1 basis point rate hike...with 2 or 3 to follow

Wed, 02/11/2015 - 13:55 | 5772119 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

^^^this, criminals and sociopathes never indict themselves or give up power and control.

Wed, 02/11/2015 - 13:53 | 5772112 Stoploss
Stoploss's picture

Oh.

Then sell gold...

Wed, 02/11/2015 - 13:54 | 5772115 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

The problem is that much of the DEBT is fraudulent to begin with.  This is debt that was placed on the back of the majority to the benefit of a chosen few.  Let me be clear, fuck em.

If all these "emergency measures" or the excuses that "we had to do this to save the economy" have worked, fine, raise rates!!!!!!

If this cannot be done then there will not be a progress from here unless the taxpayers get a serious refundIt's that or face retribution motherfucker.

Wed, 02/11/2015 - 13:55 | 5772123 mattgallis
mattgallis's picture

I guess we should keep rates at zero then

Wed, 02/11/2015 - 13:58 | 5772138 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

I vote for negative rates and banks paying you to take out another business loan!!!

Go big or go home right?

/s

 

Wed, 02/11/2015 - 13:58 | 5772137 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

FED will use upcoming war or Euro problems as excuse for no rate hikes.

They will not raise rates.  They cannot raise rates.

Wed, 02/11/2015 - 13:59 | 5772146 tribune
tribune's picture

why does the fed have to raise interest rates?. or are they just following the bond market?

Wed, 02/11/2015 - 15:30 | 5772638 daveO
daveO's picture

Eventually, to defend the dollar. When rates go negative enough, IDK exactly where, -1% or more, people will abandon them. Negative rates in other countries is temporarily helping the FED. Notice, gold and dollars rising simultaneously for the last few months. 

Wed, 02/11/2015 - 14:02 | 5772155 Kilobar
Kilobar's picture

The central banking cartel will never raise rates. They don't need to as long as the other cartel members keep theirs low as well. And when inflation starts kicking-in, they'll simply "adjust" the data to hide it.

Wed, 02/11/2015 - 14:02 | 5772157 bnbdnb
bnbdnb's picture

SP500 chart looks to be right on pace.

Wed, 02/11/2015 - 14:03 | 5772159 ChanceIs
ChanceIs's picture

Jon Gruber is correct.  Americans are stoooooopid.

The private fund managers should have been all over the real estate industry back in 2001 when we were already in a bubble.  They should have been pulling their funds and demanding bank manager firings.  much is made of the feds leaning on the banks to make ill advised mortgage borrowers.  Bank presidents listening to the threats from Eric Holder and Al Sharpton are one thing.  Having fund managers tell them to not make bad loans or their funding source will go away is quite another.

The bubble grew and burst.  The Fed bailed out the banks and feckless managers.  And the fund managers had to invest to get their requisite 8% returns in what???  Surely not government bonds yielding 3%.  This is going to be sooooooo painful.

Hey!!!  I just turned 65.  Start those checks coming baby.  What???  You gave all my money to Jamie Dimon back in '09.  Gee whiz. Sure wish I had paid attention and harried my congressman.

Of course I have been a pain in the a&^ to my congressman, but it didn't do any good.

Will we see septagenarians going after bankers in gated communities with nail guns?  Pass the popcorn.

 

Wed, 02/11/2015 - 14:03 | 5772160 Nafets93
Nafets93's picture

Bullish is a way of life!!!!!!

Wed, 02/11/2015 - 14:03 | 5772161 Lady Jessica
Lady Jessica's picture

It seems in the MSM there is a consensus that QE has "worked".

Federal government statistics (fraudulence notwithstanding) endorse this being the case.

Hence the scene is set for tentative rate rises.

All sane humans know this will tank the economy.

QE will be reinitiated once this occurs:  "It worked last time!"

This cycle will continue until the utter lack of efficacy of QE, and its frankly pernicious effects, are obvious to all and sundry.

At the heart of my thesis is: who is actually benefitting from QE?

Wed, 02/11/2015 - 14:08 | 5772198 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

many, myself include, have been cashing out and adding to the store of dry powder for just such a scenario.

Same as it ever was...

Wed, 02/11/2015 - 14:16 | 5772261 dsty
dsty's picture

the red picture of rising interest rates at the intro.

so suggestive.

Wed, 02/11/2015 - 14:17 | 5772265 OpenThePodBayDoorHAL
OpenThePodBayDoorHAL's picture

LOL "raising rates" LOL. Get ready for QE4, not that QE 3 ever "ended", the Fed's balance sheet hit another alltime high in the December quarter. Huh? Yeah they said they would not shrink it until *at least* the end of the decade, everything that matures gets rolled into new monetization, $16B last month. That's like a new asset manager with AUM of $16B opening their doors every month and the only thing they're allowed to do is BUY.

Race to ZIRP on the 30-year with the Swiss leading the pack at 0.37%.

Wed, 02/11/2015 - 14:38 | 5772362 glenlloyd
glenlloyd's picture

I don't think a rate hike will ever come, and when I say that I mean a real rate hike, not some 1 or 2 bp 'hike' or similar. If the Fed does hike it will be something symbolic so they can say they did it but we will never see rates at their historic levels ever again, that is until the Fed has fully lost control, but that could be some years away too. We'll blunder down this Japanified route for a while before they're forced to do something.The rate hike will just continue to get pushed out into the future at some undefined time.

As for the Fed balance sheet, good luck ever normalizing that mess.

The above analysis is pertinent but I believe that any significant hike would bring about a calamity much more quickly than is being proposed in the above article, at least the initial calamity. There might be subsequent downturns in stock prices too which occur later but the initial jolt will not take months to appear. The historical data regarding that is important but the analysis fails to take into account where we are technologically and how that is vastly different from market downturns in the past. I think people are already hudled at the exits wanting to be the first out the door when the shock occurs.

 

Wed, 02/11/2015 - 14:43 | 5772410 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

We will never see fed funds above 1% again.

Wed, 02/11/2015 - 14:41 | 5772403 Larry Dallas
Larry Dallas's picture

I will ask this question again, does anyone see a true catalyst for rates to increase in the next 10 years?

Before you answer, keep in mind that rates have been perpetually low since 9/11.

The dollar’s ascent is already eating into American corporate profits.

 

Somebody please challenge this thesis.

Wed, 02/11/2015 - 14:47 | 5772425 Lady Jessica
Lady Jessica's picture

The catalyst will be mounting positive assessments of the economy (fraudulent of course).

Wed, 02/11/2015 - 15:07 | 5772405 nakki
nakki's picture

Does anybody proof read anything anymore? First graph/table says S&P hit 1950 in 2001 and I'm pretty sure the S&P never hit 665 in 1969. Am I missing something?

Wed, 02/11/2015 - 15:38 | 5772568 annabelleballow
annabelleballow's picture

Raise the rates... I want the stock market to correct. 

Wed, 02/11/2015 - 15:43 | 5772685 In.Sip.ient
In.Sip.ient's picture

Rate hikes???

 

Get a clue here folks, if you hike rates, money flows into

your country, which begets a need to invest that money.

In WHAT you may ask, other than USTs???

 

Therein lies the rub, all that money flowing into the US$ is

getting trapped.  All other CBs are actively lowering rates or

indeed going NIRP ( as per Switzerland ), because if all that

money flowed into their countries ( as with the USA ) there

would be no effective investment vehicle other than gov't

bonds.

 

And THAT is a death trap for capital and the currency in question!!!

 

Wed, 02/11/2015 - 16:17 | 5772820 AGuy
AGuy's picture

" All other CBs are actively lowering rates or indeed going NIRP"

That's because ZIRP has run out the clock. Because of ZIRP, Sovereign and Corporate debt has ballooned. They need NIRP to finance the extra debt load. Although NIRP arrives first to the nations that are in the best financial state, as savers move capital to places that are less risky. The Bigger players (France, US, China) will land in NIRP land eventually.

 

 

Wed, 02/11/2015 - 16:11 | 5772804 AGuy
AGuy's picture

"There have been ZERO times that the Federal Reserve has entered into a rate hiking campaign that did not have a negative consequence"

There has never been a time when the Fed Lowered rates that it did not have a negative consequence.

 

 

Wed, 02/11/2015 - 16:18 | 5772821 dscott8186
dscott8186's picture

<i>1) There have been ZERO times that the Federal Reserve has entered into a rate hiking campaign that did not have a negative consequence.</i>

In the short term yes, in the long term, it is absolutely necessary to clear out the defective managers who bungled the economy.  Contrary to the doom and gloom of this article, I look forward to the buying opportunity it poses.  For you technical folks, short, short, short!

BTW- This would be a good opportunity for the Fed to clean up the Treasury balance sheets by letting all the fools buy bonds at the current interest rate level, then BAMM, raise interest rates to 5% thus shrinking the national debt to 20% of it's current level.  If you know anything about bonds, the principle must drop to match the par level of the higher interest paid on new bonds.  Only a fool owns bonds at these rates.

Yum, yum, it smells like chum!  I smell a feeding frenzy...

Contrary to the idiots handling the economy, the business cycle has not been canceled, it has been waiting with pent up fury to correct the stupidity of those who foolishly think there are no consequences and bail outs forever.

Wed, 02/11/2015 - 16:40 | 5772903 Blue_Balls
Blue_Balls's picture

I am prepared for a "symbolic" rate hike. Like above, a 1bp hike. 

Wed, 02/11/2015 - 22:55 | 5774281 kelley805
kelley805's picture

Here is a website that confirms deflation is inevitable using 52 years of Fed data aka FRED data.

http://michaelekelley.com/2015/02/11/fed-inflation-target-is-abnormal/

 

Thanks

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!