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The Greek Issue Just Got Personal
Submitted by Raul Ilargi Meijer via The Automatic Earth blog,
It was already present over the past two weeks, for example in Yanis Varoufakis’ meetings with Eurogroup head Jeroen Dijsselbloem and German FinMin Schäuble, awkwardly obvious in facial expressions and body language. A touch of personal discomfort. A touch of a threat that required chest-thumping and hubris to be brushed off. ‘You better do what we say or else’. Back then, perhaps it was still experienced from a political, deal-making, perspective. But in the course of yesterday it became clear something has changed.
It has become personal, you could feel it in the air, and that raises the danger level considerably. It’s not personal from the Greek side; Alexis Tsipras and Varoufakis merely act according to – their interpretation of – the mandate handed them by their voters. It’s the other side(s) that have started making it personal. They see themselves, their positions, as being under attack. And they blame Greece’s new Syriza government for that. Which may seem logical at first blush, but that doesn’t make it true. The people sitting on the other side from Varoufakis have dug themselves into these positions.
Which, as they rightfully fear, are now threatened. Not because Syriza means to do so, but because they come to the table with that mandate, to put an end to what has caused Greece to sink as deep as it has. There’s nothing personal about that, it’s democracy at work, it’s politics. Still, it’s perceived as personal, because it makes the ‘old’ leadership uncomfortable. They haven’t seen it coming, they were convinced, all the way, that they would prevail. They mostly still are, but in a now much more nervous fashion.
It’s started to dawn on them that perhaps Syriza will not back down on its demands, that yet another – mostly superficial – political deal is not in the cards. CNBC reported last night that a deal on an extension of the existing bailout was near, and markets reacted quite strongly. It would appear, therefore, that both media and investors have been as deaf as the EU to what Syriza has been consistently saying, that it’s not interested in such an extension. It was never on the table, not from the Greek point of view.
Perhaps a headline such as yesterday’s ‘Greece Warned To Expect No Favors’ sums it up best. The EU side sees – or at least publicly presents – any negotiation with Greece as handing out favors, while Syriza says it doesn’t want any favors, it wants something that will give the Greek people back a future. And there is nothing that will make them not want that.
There is of course a fear within the EU that what is granted to Greece will eventually also have to be handed to other countries. Interestingly, though, the incumbent governments of the countries involved, Spain, Portugal, Italy, have a vested interest in Syriza failing. Because if it doesn’t, their powers are set to dwindle. This is most urgently obvious in Spain, where PM Rajoy’s ruling party is already way behind Podemos in the polls.
Podemos leader Pablo Iglesias, writing in the Guardian, made his position very clear:
If The Greek Olive Branch Is Rejected, Europe May Fall
During his swearing-in speech as Greece’s prime minister, Alexis Tsipras was clear: “Our aim is to achieve a solution that is mutually beneficial for both Greece and our partners. Greece wants to pay its debt.” The European Central Bank’s response to the Greek government’s desire to be conciliatory and responsible, was also very clear: negative. Either the Greek government abandons the programme on which it was elected, and continues to do the very thing that has been disastrous for Greece, or the ECB will stop supporting Greek debt.
The ECB’s calculation is not only arrogant, it is incoherent. The same central bank that recognised its mistakes a few weeks ago and began to buy government debt is now denying financing to the very states that have been arguing for years that the role of a central bank should be to back up governments in protecting their citizens rather than to rescue the financial bodies that caused the crisis.
And though Portugal may not – yet – have a full-fledged Syriza or Podemos, it’s economy is in straits as dire as those of its peers, as Ambrose EP explains today:
Germany Faces Impossible Choice As Greek Austerity Revolt Spreads
It is unfair to pick on Portugal but its public and private debts are 380% of GDP – the highest in Europe and higher than those of Greece – making is acutely vulnerable to toxic effects of deflation on debt dynamics. Portugal’s net international investment position (NIIP) – the best underlying indicator of solvency – has reached minus 112% of GDP. Public debt has jumped from 111% to 125% of GDP in three years. The fiscal deficit is still 5%. The country’s ranking in global competitiveness is close to that of Greece.
“The situation in Portugal is very different,” says Paulo Portas, the deputy premier. Sadly it is not. Once you violate the sanctity of monetary union and reduce EMU to a fixed-exchange system, the illusion that Portugal is out of the woods may not last long. Markets will test it. Only two people can now stop the coming train-wreck. Chancellor Angela Merkel and her finance minister Wolfgang Schauble, a man who masks his passion for the EU cause behind an irascible front.
Ambrose also quotes Italy’s Beppe Grillo:
Beppe Grillo’s Five Star movement – with 108 seats in parliament – is openly calling for a return to the lira. Mr Grillo proclaims that Syriza is carrying the torch for all the long-suffering peoples of southern Europe, as it is in a sense. “What’s happening to Greece today, will be happening to Italy tomorrow. Sooner or later, default is coming,” he said.
Maybe for the reigning ‘kings and queens’ of the EU and its member states it’s inevitable that all this should become personal at some point. They’ve certainly tried hard enough to trivialize Grillo as some kind of clown through the years. Perhaps, also, it’s the demeanor, the popularity and the person of Varoufakis, the ‘new heart-throb of the thinking German woman’, as Ambrose characterized him. And I don’t think he meant Angela Merkel. Christine Lagarde, perhaps, who showed up yesterday in the sort of attire that seemed designed to blend in with Yanis.
But I still think the main reason things got personal is that with the arrival of Syriza on the scene, the ‘kings and queens’ can just ‘intuitively smell’ the changes that are afoot, and that don’t spell anything good for their own plush seats. For a while they could pretend it was all only – mostly right-wing – extremists that expressed feelings critical of the EU. And of course, Syriza is still habitually labeled ‘extreme left wing’ and ‘Marxist’, but Varoufakis clearly isn’t seen by people in Germany et al as some extremist nutcase.
The usual bag of tricks no longer works. And the subject Varoufakis brings to the table, that the EU and ECB economical policies have been an abject failure – at least for the people in Greece’ Main Street – is not some extreme notion either. Schäuble and Dijsselbloem can try and cling to the idea that Greece seeks to swindle German and Dutch voters out of even more money than they already have, and that still works to an extent, but it is wearing thin.
The contagion from Syriza success can be considerable, and though it pretends otherwise, the EU has no idea what it would mean down the line. Every single option they look at that is NOT Varoufakis surrendering, must scare them out of their socks. Anything they give up will be seen as a sign of weakness, and it will encourage parties for which Syriza ‘carries the torch’, and likely raise their support and votes.
However, if the Eurogroup don’t give up anything at all in the negotiations, there may be a Grexit, even with Russia and/or China stepping in to fund Athens. While there are all sorts of reports claiming that Grexit is manageable for the EU, don’t believe a word of them: nobody knows. And none of the present big shots wants to be held responsible for blowing up the common currency.
They have come to the realization over the past week that Syriza can be a ground-breaking force in Europe, not just a minor nuisance. They will have to adapt their attitude and their way of thinking, real fast. Monday February 16 comes to mind. Because Syriza will not back down and go for a bailout extension. For the simple reason that it is not what they see as their mandate. The Eurogroup had better be prepared for that, or it might become irrelevant in no time.
And no, no matter what they think, it’s not personal. Not for Varoufakis it isn’t. He merely represents the Greeks without access to health care who line up at soup kitchens. But you’re right, for those people, living in the third world that Europe has created within its borders, it’s very personal.
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Molon Laveh
...Time to "nail gun" suicide those two Greek guys.
Why? They are perfectly useful idiots for the bankster elite. Moar debt means moar banker bonuses.
Thats right, I read Gr hired Deutsche B, they will make at least € 1.000.000 from debt restructering
No one would buy a suicide at this point, so it'd be an outright assassination immediately pinned on a patsy. This avoids a long protracted investigation that might actually turn up real evidence by accident.
In all seriousness, I hope these gentlemen have top-notch security, because they're now well past the point that the financial gains from their deaths would outweight the losses and political consequences. They're literally undoing nearly 30 years of work by TPTB to integrate Europe, and by extension about 1/3 of the "new world order." That has got to have some people behind the scenes seriously pissed off. Have to love the butterfly effect of TPTB losing control of one tiny election in the backwaters blowing up the whole thing.
Very good seek. Political capital has different meanings to different people.
It is a populist movement. Suiciding a couple of guys wouldn't quell the masses. I know what would, and I don't know about you, but I'm not up for being drafted to go fight in Greece.
El:
Murdering the Greek leaders will result in a nuclear explosion of anger against the EU, ECB, Deep State, US, and everything else involved with TPTB.
The only suicide that would occur in that situation is the suicide committed by TPTB on themselves. I sense a redux of the French Revolution sweeping southern, and west central Europe.
Pods - you will get to see the blood flow in the streets . . .
-30-
The EU hates Democracy. I am surprised they didn't tell the Greeks to go back and re-run the election again until they got it right. They did it to the Irish more than once the fuckers
Actually, I´d be keeping sn eye on the Greek military. Erdogan over in Turkey sensed the winds of change were in the air and he cleaned house (just in time) and avoided a coup, but the Greek government(s) have all been, and without exception, utter disasters, and are ripe for the picking. The current crew may get a few more weeks at most, and if they don´t bring home the goodies....watch out.
if it gets any more "personal" spx will be over 2100
I am really digging the 'moral hazard' that the corrupt banks are facing...If Greece says no they should convince Spain Portugal and Italy to bow out with them. They should form an alliance for the purpose of survival and growth. Think about it, walk away with a clean slate in an alliance of other countries who have done the same and all of them can start with eachother and zero debt. It would be incredibly painful at first, but then we might see some incredible growth, until it all happnes again...its a cultural thing.
It's possible the DOW will hit 18k today with a late day buying spree. 20k just around the corner after that.
The Syriza victory just hastened the Greeks exiting the Euro zone. The oligarchs plan was to string Greece along, give it more loans that went straight into the banksters' coffers and continue buying on the cheap everything in Greece that wasn't already looted, from port facilities to power plants to government owned land and buildings. What is happening in Greece is a "bust-out" operation no different than when the Mafia buys a business and loads it up with debt before eventally dumping the worthless shell of a business. Only in Greece's case, this Mafia is made up of banksters and their accomplices, including hit men who carry out the executions of opponents to the looting of a nation. Killers who have no fear of prosecution, no different than the pedophile murderers who operated with impunity in the UK 30 years ago, protected by Home Secretary Leon Brittan, one of their associates. Organized bankster crime rules the world.
+100 Bankers are predators intent on total asset stripping of Greece, before dumping the bankrupt shell.
Eventually, I fear, this could be said of all of us. More of us should be paying attention to this. A foreshadowing of what may come. But we are too comfortable and lulled into a dangerous tranquility.
Miffed;-)
Hmmm, a well written ZH article. Suspicious...
Good read on FOFOA http://fofoa.blogspot.de/
I understand the Eurogroups concern, but that is what happens when (if) you democratic elections
Are you saying that these elections where fraud?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_legislative_election,_2009
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_legislative_election,_June_2012
That's what all aspiring tyrants (as opposed to empowered tyrants) say when an election doesn't go their way, for example with the Swiss Gold Referendum.
Precisely what you get when you allow people who really don't know how to create anything of real value to control the monetary, legislative, and judicial systems...
6+ years of allowing bankers and financiers access to hundreds of billions of free money (ZIRP/NIRP)!!!!!!!!
How's that working out for everyone?
You don't give them enough credit, Tens of Trillions is likely more accurate.
What's several orders of magnitude between friends?
;)))
Europe won't fall if greeks are kicked out from the club. They where not favorite here anyway :)
You are correct if it was only the Greeks. The rest of the PIIGS are in the same boat as the Greeks and will also jump ship once they see that the Greeks are better off without the chains of slavery to the bankers. Jubilee!!!
Why then are the Nazi EUorcrats acting like cornered Rats.
If Greece defaults, the Euro banking system explodes. Greece cannot be allowed to leave, and the debts must be repayed or banks fail. This is the proverbial immovable object and irresistable force. I will be very interested to see how they handle it. This is a side show anyway. The system is destined to burn eventually - today or tomorrow is what they are stressing about.
Greek tragedy meets GameOfThrones - the Lannisters send their regards varoufakis
http://pbs.twimg.com/media/B8o77C7CYAAMavE.jpg:large
Just fucking break the EU already. Fuck all government officials EVERYWHERE!
all one billion of them. government is the enemy.
elections - what is it good for?
This is why history is non-linear. Things happen to a point, and then once that point is passed, people react. The Troika thought it could sodomize Greece forever, and that Greece would take it forever.
Obvious bad puns aside, history has repeatedly shown that sodomized populations eventually reach their breaking point. Once that point is passed, things change fast. When people get to the point where their lives are so miserable that they'd rather be dead than continue living the way that they are, revolution of one kind or another is just around the corner; it would appear that Greece has now reached that point.
It's all personal. We are being anally raped by TPTB in: Greece, Europe, the U.S. - anywhere the banksters and their lackey politicians run the show.
we will see. come monday moar debate and mis info til the dust settles come 2/28. i ask if anyone has any idea when greece runs out of money to fund government?
that to me this is the real date to peg hope and change to...
"However, if the Eurogroup don’t give up anything at all in the negotiations, there may be a Grexit, even with Russia and/or China stepping in to fund Athens."
1.) Russia doesn't have money even for tinny Transnistria http://www.neweasterneurope.eu/articles-and-commentary/1462-transnistria...
2.) China has so far shown little interest in getting involved in financial help for Greece, with the foreign ministry on Wednesday saying it had no knowledge of any aid offered by Beijing, after a Greek official mentioned such an offer. http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/02/12/us-eurozone-greece-china-idUSK...
I recommend to ZH sometimes visit planet Earth.
russias' interest would be bilateral(of course), coastline, ports, pipelines and drilling. something to be taken advange of in a coperative manor. we fund you bend over...
I recall Russia is taking over the Arctic Circle for ports and oil.
Nobody said the aid would come for free. Greece has what china and Russia could use. For Russia, a warm water Naval base outside of the Black Sea. For China, safe ports to ship their junk before being distributed to Europe.
Do you think aid from the US, EU and IMF are free? I recommend you sometimes visit planet Earth.
Russia is currently engaged in 10's of Billion PROJECTS ( signed ) in Brazil, Argentina, India, South Korea, Iran, China ( 100's of Billions ), numerous Asia and African countries and Eastern Europe, OTHER, and all the while the EU,UK and Vichy DC invest in the MILITARY.
Joke is on you numbnuts! FleaDUMB my ARSE.
Greece (with the help of GS) LIES its' way into the EU (after a couple of tries).
Takes out massive "loans" and the money is poofed.
Turmoil on repayment ensues.
"Lagard's List" shows up and somehow Greek names are poofed.
More turmoil.
An election and Alexis Tsipras (in his manifesto) states corruption is a core problem.
Since the election NOTHING has been done, NO arrests or prosecution for any of the "core corruption", but a whole lot of finger pointing at Germany.
Greece is doomed.
This is one of the stages of grief that comes after bargining.
Dontcha just luv the way these visionary 'caring & sharing' socialist/marxist/communists blame their sloth, mismanagement, neglect, irresponsibility, deceit & dependance on eveybody else except themselves or their twisted pathetic ideology? Absolutely adorable!
"Greece wants to pay its debt"
Why did they join the EU in the first place ? To simply be able to pay back debt within that system ? You know, as an independant Greece, you could have had the priviliege of paying back debt without joining the EU if paying back debt is something you just love so much.
Nigel Farage must be LOL'ing his ass off
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvHSbGRALHI
Nig's latest speech this morning. A gem.
The planet needs a good dose of antibiotics to get rid of a lot of the parasites....
" They see themselves, their positions, as being under attack. And they blame Greece’s new Syriza government for that"
These are the most true words ever spoken! The elite financial mangers of the EU now have their jobs, their careers, their high postions being mocked by the voters of Greece. YOU bet it is personal NOW! You ever threaten these guys "Iron Rice Bowls", and they come out swinging for blood!.
Like I said from day one, beware the Coup that may be coming, or worse. Greece's Army is integrated into NATO, NATO is under American command, they act only on orders from Washington DC. The Obama holds the trigger to a gun aimed right at the Greek Government's Head. And you can bet, Mr. Peace Prize ain't afraid to pull the fuck'n trigger either.
Any Greek Army intervention without a National popular mandate would result in a Civil war. Respect your views Jack. What do you think of Ukraine cease fire arrangement ? Seems Poroshenko has a bloody nose with 5,000 Ukraine soldiers surrounded and ready to lay down arms by Sataurday.
geno:
The NAF say that the UAF is surrounded and must surrender before they will get out of the cauldron. The Kiev Nazis say that they are not blocked in; right.
I want to see what so many others want to see: What nations have "boots on the ground" in that cauldron?
"Get out of my face" isn't going to cut it when they have to lay down their arms and surrender to the NAF.
-30-
"They have come to the realization over the past week that Syriza can be a ground-breaking force in Europe, not just a minor nuisance. They will have to adapt their attitude and their way of thinking, real fast. Monday February 16 comes to mind."
we shall see...
we r all Greeks.
Prudent lending and banking can only be achieved under the threat of default by debtor. How many times now has Greece been "fudged" to make it appear solvent? GS did it origninally in order that the EU would exist to begin with. Then what, 3 more tranches of more bad loans betting same?
No different than in US. We should have forced them all into BK in 2007; provided we were so stupid as to allow Gramm-Leach-Blyly. And NOW? They are multiples larger and multiples more insolvent if everything is On Bal Sht.
The thought of a Chinese navel port in Greece and a Russian gas pipeline through Greece should bring the EU negotiators back to the table and forgive debt equivalent to at least the lost revenue from port leasing and pipeline transit fees over time. No doubt NATO and US would be willing to kick in to the debt forgiveness. Look at the Chessboard, not the money owed that should never have been loaned by greedy Bankers.
" CNBC reported last night that a deal on an extension of the existing bailout was near, and markets reacted quite strongly. It would appear, therefore, that both media and investors have been as deaf as the EU to what Syriza has been consistently saying"
NO, not deaf, just conditioned by past events to ALWAYS believe another financial trick can be invented to extend and pretend, or bail out the positions, no matter how hopeless. Like Pavlov's Dog, investors react to central banks slightest whisper.
Socialism kills! Communism destroys everything it touches! Theres' nothing more expensive than a liberal!
"Liberal" as a descripter, in my humble opinion, is dead. I prefer independent or statist. Central power or decentralized power...
Stupidity is what is expensive and all concerned in Europe acted...stupidly so there you go. Simplistic but hardly admitted to over there. Default and get it over with. Not as if Greece has not had practice, they know how to go BK.
Agreed! The common denominators being a general loathing & hatred of free markets, honest price discovery, freedom and the democratic process - all factors that permit their disfunctional socialist excesses!
my buddy's mother makes $81 /hr on the laptop . She has been out of work for 7 months but last month her check was $17719 just working on the laptop for a few hours. read this article www.globe-report.com
She sounds like a whore.
What about your mother what does she do ?
Hey, you should be posting that on a Greek website.
All their problems could be solved with just a few short hours of work!
:)))
It's getting to sound like Greek.
The EU had the seeds of it's own destruction within it from day one. What they should be doing now is negotiating the orderly break up of the union to minimise financial fallout. At this point orderly break up may not even be possible.
I think the best part of all this is seeing a big bloated bureaucratic socialist bloc pontificating to a tiny hapless deadbeat group of communists about responsibility & character! What a pair of winners!
the gist of the comments rings the truth- threatened of their power. a false power backed by violence(rad mayjane-hello out there). so as j.b. suggests, violence next.
time has come to scare some folks to the reality (behind the scenes)-death or comply.
the economic hitmen are on there way.
Dear Customer (Greece);
We regret to inform you that we have reviewed your last 200 years of borrowing & have determined that you now have the lowest credit score rating ever & that your application for further funding has been seriously declined. Please remit all funds that have been extended to you within 7 business days to avoid further legal proceedings!
Signed,
Hung Out To Dry Financial
Mr. Panos says "when you loan me small money, I have a problem. When you loan me big money, YOU have a problem".
.... while the youth main line heroin, girls prostitute themselves, seniors commit suicide, families are destroyed and HIS country burns & rots!
Another wonderful socialist visionary/superstar!
Paging Olivia Newton John -
Lets Get Fizzycal, Fizzical... I wanna Get Fizzycal....
Negotiations are tense between the EU and Greece -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8yjNbcKkNY
Perfect!
It's the battle at Thermopylae allover again but this time there is no Ephialtes to show the small path that leads to behind the Greek lines.
NOT SO FAST, not so fast.
There is, SHE IS CALLED Elena Panaritis. Varoufakis' Assistant or rather the one to keep him in the staight and narrow of the International Banksters roadmap.
Check her out Elena Panaritis. Especially HER BACKGROUND.
Greece is a small place, if one is intending to do a crime , he or she, better not talk and the Greeks always talk.
Where you hear there are a lot of cherries hold a small basket.
Welcome to the wonderful world of infected socialism & its like that debauches free markets, destroys democracy, undermines integrity & consistanly delivers pain & suffering to the naive masses!
You could replace "infected socialism & its like" WITH "crony capitalism" and it still makes sense. Both groups become parasites, no?
Definately! The latter is a function of the former! Extortionate bedfellows!
but isn't "what has caused Greece to sink as deep as it has" the debt that the Greeks themselves took on? It wasn't an external force that caused the problem.
Correct! Contrary to popular 'Bankster' finger-pointing the Greeks were very anxious to join the ill-fated EU project & fudged all the financial data & forecasts accordingly. Once they secured Germany's 'AAA' credit rating the showered themselves in excesses & expanded an already unproductive & bloated civil service & bureaucracy. They are definately the authors of their own misfortune! And now like true socialists they blame everyone but themselves - especially the 'crooked' financial system!
If Greece were smart, they would string EU along to where the EU is practicallly throwing money (loans) at them. Then take the loans. Once the money is in the bank to buy some time, DEFAULT. Kind of like the muricans who max out all their credit cards and personal lines of credit and mortgage, before declaring bankruptcy (with belongins stashed away somewhere).
And don't kid yourself... this is how many of the rich do it - borrow money with no intention of ever repaying.