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Ukraine Ceasefire Deal Agreed After Negotiations All-Nighter; Doubts Remain About Its Implementation
It would have simply been too much to handle for Europe and the risk off algos if hours after the embarrassing failure of the emergency Eurogroup meeting in Brussels failed to reach any deal involving Greece, the Ukraine ceasefire negotiations in Minsk were also to fall apart. Again. Which is probably why after a marathon session lasting 17 hours, and following repeated trial balloons that a deal had and/or had not been reached, a short while ago all major media outlets were delighted to finally blast some Risk On news namely that leaders of France and Germany brokered a renewed deal to end Ukraine’s 10-month civil war in the separatist eastern region, which means that we have a Minsk-signed Ukraine ceasefire. Again.
As the WSJ reports, "details of the agreement weren’t immediately available" but it involves a cease-fire starting on February 15, Sunday, with each side pulling back heavy weapons, as well as steps to give greater autonomy to the Russia-backed separatist regions in eastern Ukraine. All negotiators, namely Ukraine’s Petro Poroshenko, Russia’s Vladimir Putin, Germany’s Angela Merkel, and France’s Francois Hollande said there are no alternatives to peaceful solution.
Some more from Bloomberg according to which Ukraine would start getting border control day after regional elections and full control after constitutional reforms, including decentralization, according to copy of document signed by contact group in Minsk, Belarus.
- Cease-fire to start Feb. 15, midnight Sat. to Sun. in Kiev
- Accord sets amnesty covering conflict in Donetsk, Luhansk regions
- Accord sets a minimum 50km buffer zone, 70-140km for missile systems;
withdrawal set from front line as of Sept. 19 for rebels, current front
line for Ukraine army - Ukraine to pass constitutional reforms, including permanent special status to Donetsk, Luhansk, by end-2015
- Ukraine to restore economic ties, banking links, pension, social benefits to east
- Withdrawal of heavy artillery to start no later than 2nd day after cease-fire starts; to be completed w/in 14 days
- Agree to create oversight mechanism to ensure peace accord is implemented
- Agree to support 3-way talks w/ Ukraine, Russia, EU on gas supplies
- Germany, France to help rebuild banking system in Ukraine regions affected by conflict
- All “illegal” groups to disarm
Ukraine's president Poroshenko was quick to preempt accusations that this was yet another major concession by Ukraine which has already ceded Crimea to Russia - a topic that was not touched with a ten foot pole -and said that there will be no autonomy for the separatist, natural gas and industry-heavy Donbas region and that the agreement won’t move to federalization. Still one can't quite explain the 50km buffer zone, whose purpose is not exactly clear if not to provide precisely that: autonomy.
Others were quick to point out that the agreement was not really a breakthrough, such as Germany's foreign minister, Frank-Walter Steinmeier, who said in e-mail that parties to Minsk talks sought to gain more from agreement sealed Thursday but achieved most important goal of sealing ceasefire. "We achieved something while chance remains that Feb. 15 ceasefire accord could be upturned by intervening violence."
“Today’s agreement is not a comprehensive solution and not at all a breakthrough” but added that the most "important” aim of ceasefire achieved in talks. “For the first time we have clear tasks with time allotments for the implementation of the Minsk obligations: on voting, border controls, exchanging prisoners among others.”
Others chimed in as well: “Much, much work is still necessary,” Ms. Merkel said after the talks ended. “But there is a real chance that things will turn for the better.” Merkel said both Mr. Putin and Mr. Poroshenko acted constructively in the negotiations.
“President Putin indeed did all he could to achieve the possibility of ending the bloodshed,” Ms. Merkel said. She added: “In the end, President Putin also put pressure on the separatists” to agree to a cease-fire taking effect Saturday night.
Merkel concludes by saying that "All things considered I would like to say that what we’ve reached now is giving us more hope than if we hadn’t agreed on anything. I don’t have any illusions, we don’t have any illusions that a lot of work is still required but there’s a real chance for things to take a turn for the better."
Mr. Hollande described the pact as cause for “serious hope,” and said France and Germany had committed to verifying the implementation of the deal. “Everything is not yet accomplished, but this is a serious hope for Ukraine and a relief for Europe,” he said.
But the questions already emerged: the negotiations hit some snags along the way. Mr. Putin blamed the last-minute delay on what he called Ukraine’s refusal to negotiate directly with the separatist leaders. There was no immediate response from Kiev to that.
Mr. Putin also said one area of disagreement remained about the town of Debaltseve, where Ukrainian forces have been under siege from rebels for days. Separatist leaders called on Kiev’s forces to surrender and abandon the town, something Ukraine so far has refused to do.
By Mr. Putin’s account the agreement appears to split the difference on one key area of controversy—the dividing line between the two sides on the ground.
Mr. Putin said Kiev’s troops would pull back heavy weapons from the current front line, which reflects months of rebel gains, while the rebels would pull their equipment back from the line in the original September agreements.
Even before the negotiations had reached an agreement, the IMF sent out a notice that its staff had agreed on new US$ 17.5 billion extended fund facility with Ukraine.
“The mission has reached a staff-level agreement with the authorities on an economic reform program, which can be supported by a four-year Extended Fund Facility, in the amount of SDR 12.35 billion (about $17.5 billion, €15.5 billion), as well as, by considerable additional resources from the international community. The staff level agreement is subject to approval by IMF Management and the Executive Board. Consideration by the Executive Board is expected in the next few weeks, following the authorities’ implementation of decisive front-loaded actions to achieve program goals.
“The policies under the new arrangement, developed by the Ukrainian authorities jointly with Fund staff, are designed to address the many challenges confronting the Ukrainian economy. Economic activity contracted by around 7-7½ percent in GDP in 2014, weighed down by the conflict in Eastern Ukraine, which has taken a significant toll on the industrial base and exports, undermined confidence and ignited pressures on the financial system. The economic reform program focuses on immediate macroeconomic stabilization as well as broad and deep structural reforms to provide the basis for strong and sustainable economic growth over the medium term.
“The 2015 budget initiates an expenditure-led adjustment to strengthen public finances within the availability of resources. This required bold, but necessary, measures, including keeping nominal wages and pensions fixed. The budget is supported by revenue reforms, including increasing the progressivity of the personal income tax and streamlining the tax system. The authorities are committed to medium term reforms of the civil service and the important health and education sectors, aiming to improve quality and efficiency, as well as widening the tax base and improving customs and tax administration. Fiscal consolidation would continue over the coming years which together with the debt operation envisaged by the authorities will strengthen debt sustainability.
Alas, with Ukraine having no gold left, the probability of the IMF staying to implement a long-term structural reform in the country is slim to none which means hyperinflation is almost certainly inevitable, but while Ukraine may or may not have reached a (temporary) ceasefire, it will at least have the cash to pay for its external obligations. Mostly to Russia.
Finally, as a reminder, this is the second time Ukraine peace has been signed on paper in Minsk, only for hopes to crash and burn in the days that followed. Many are skeptical this time will not be different, most certainly if headlines such as the following continue to appear in the coming hours and days, until the actual ceasefire is implemented on Sunday.
#BREAKING Fifty tanks entered Ukraine from Russia during peace talks: Kiev
— Agence France-Presse (@AFP) February 12, 2015
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Rebel Commander Confirms Use Of Tactical Nuclear Weapon In Donetsk
I do not want a cease-fire. I want Russia to step in and finish the job.
oh what job is that - an ethnic cleanse of the region?
The disposition of the current Kiev government.
democracy is soooo over rated. you mean that democratically elected government in kiev should be overthrown by the russian autocratic dictator?
Which democratically elected government is that? The previous government the US ousted or the puppets the US installed?
wake up. yanukovich was the puppet you muppet
INORITE? It's like being ambidextrous and trying to figure out which hand to use to masturbate.
leaving aside your bs conspiracy theories for a second we can say with absolute certainty that it certainly wasn't the democratically elected (sic) russian government
A conspiracy theory is a matter of perspective. Nothing can be said with certainty exccept for one: Ukraine has not been its own master for a long, long time. To say that events have not been influenced by outside interests is being disingenuous, at best.
if the ukranians believed their government had been installed there would be uprising. the only uprising is from some russian sponspored terrorists.
The USSA will find some way to sabotage the deal while blaming Russia. Nothing will change as long as the European leaders refuse to stand up for their citizens, and instead give in to USSA threats and blackmail.
you mock the ussa but yearn for the ussr?
http://www.moonofalabama.org/
Pendragon, don't put words in my mouth.
I was an original cold warrior, opposed to the USSR, and very glad that it dissolved. Contrary to your neocon BS, Russia IS NOT the USSA. Take out a map, read history, instead of repeating CNN propaganda.
putin would reconstruct the ussr in a heartbeat. putin and the ussr are inextricably linked.
Bullshit. Putin is not interested in reconstructing an economic and political loser like the USSR. Instead, he is casting Russia's fortunes with the East, particularly China. This is why the NWO wants to destroy him. Do you really think America gives a rats ass about the Ukraine, when 84% of americans can't even find your shitty country on a map?
Read and Learn:
THE GLOBAL COMMAND ECONOMY and the OUTLOOK FOR GOLD & SILVER...originally published February 12th, 2015
I have been doing some thinking in recent days. Who has all the money in the world? – the government and the big banks, who are the real owners and controllers of society. For sure they have huge debts, but they have brought these under control by clamping interest rates at 0 and printing money, so that they can effectively push these debts off onto the general population via inflation for years to come.
We now live in an age of unprecedented market manipulation, where the concept of “honest price discovery” has become a sick joke. Take, for example, “honest price discovery” with respect to interest rates – that went out of the window years ago, since we now live in a world of near permanent zero interest rates – the reasons? Governments and the big banks have decided that they want interest rates at 0 so that their enormous debts can be stopped from compounding, and so that they can scam the general population by charging relatively high interest rates for loans, which net them huge profits because of the difference between the rates they charge, and what they pay for money, which is nothing. They are happy that savers are disenfranchised and to add insult to injury even levy negative interest rates, so that you are actually penalized for saving money! They also know that all their money printing is diluting the real value of their debts, which are steadily being shifted onto the general population through inflation.
While the ordinary citizen is struggling to get by, whenever the government or big banks need money, they print it up, by the hundreds of billions or even trillions, and since they are no longer accountable to an impotent population, who cannot express their displeasure at the ballot box because there are no uncompromised parties to choose from, they do this with absolute impunity. They literally have hundreds of billions of dollars at their disposal at any time, and can herd the markets around like a flock of sheep. This is why, when we look at the price track for the S&P500 index over the past couple of years, we can see that whenever it has looked like it was in danger of “dropping out of bed”, someone or something has stepped in and propped it up and turned the trend back up again. It is why “buying the dip” has until now been such a successful strategy in the broad market. These are now totally managed markets – a controlled confidence trick.
Thus it can be said be said that we are fast moving towards a “global command economy”, where the elites and the governments and banks that they own and control have absolute power over everything of importance. This is capitalism taken to its ultimate extreme where it effectively eliminates free markets and competition and reverts to Communism.
On the geopolitical level what we are now witnessing is the end game, the final push of the Western elites towards world domination. Only Russia, China and the BRICS stand in their way. They intend to dismantle and destroy BRICS, and to achieve this end will destroy its constituent countries if necessary. Full spectrum war is being waged against Russia right now, with the aim of mortally weakening it and then absorbing it. This started with the Western planners’ organized coup in the Ukraine, swiftly followed by vilification of Russia in the mainstream media, sanctions, crashing the oil price, and now we are heading towards a full-on military confrontation in the Ukraine, where the Russian military, although certainly impressive, will be worn down by attrition against the combined might of NATO. After Russia, China will face a total onslaught. Both China and Russia know this, which is why they are clinging to other like frightened children.
From a practical standpoint with respect to trading markets, what can we deduce from all this? Western governments and banks now have such a massive war chest of money made available by QE, which can be replenished at any time by means of a few keystrokes, by simply “adding a 0”, that they can call the shots – decide whether there is going to be a bullmarket or a bearmarket or a crash or whatever. In the light of this the The Little Guy collectively deciding to sell the shares in his miserly pension plan is not going to make much difference anymore. The Big Guys control the entire show and decide the course of events. It therefore follows that if we are to have any hope of making money in these markets, we have to “ride the coat tails” of the elite controllers of the markets.
Now, we know that the elites don’t like a strong gold price because it exposes their debasement of money, but otherwise they really don’t care too much about it, and on a personal level they probably like it, for the same reasons as the rest of us. In the face of continued expansion of the money supply and ongoing QE it is simply not logical for the gold price to decline, because money itself is being debased at a rapid rate. In this environment the price of gold must rise and will rise a lot if an acute shortage of physical emerges, and this doesn’t take into account the numerous “black swans” which could appears and destabilize the situation, causing gold to soar.
Gold and silver are dropping back now, which we called as you know after our correct interpretation of the COT charts for both, and having reacted back significantly are starting to look attractive again – we will review the latest COTs at the weekend to see if they have eased sufficiently to permit a reversal back to the upside. This is a good point for gold and silver to turn up again as they have reacted back to the support at the upper boundary of their respective Head-and-Shoulders bottoms. Precious Metals stocks have held up very well on this reaction so far – and so they should given how horribly undervalued relative to the metals they still are – and let’s not forget that the low oil prices are going to result in much better results for many mining operations going forward that should drive a really big rally across the sector. We will be looking at more attractive mining stocks on the site in the near future, especially if it looks like the current reaction is about done.
you are ignoring the evidence - annexation of crimea and russian state sponsored terrorism in east ukraine. there are more russians posting on this website than ukranians. i myself have never set foot in ukraine nor do i have any ukrainian lineage
Pendragon, STFU already.
don't let me keep you from your fluffing duties.
I see .gov has enacted quite the pay cut for sock-puppet shills. Guess they realized their narrative has the structural integrity of a wet napkin and they only need to pay morons to go on MSM websites to regurgitate their bullshit and ad hominems to the sheep.
You are out of your league Pendragon.
what time is it in moscow?
I have no horse in this race.. 'I just calls em like I sees em' and any truly objective analysis of this situation brings you to the conclusion that US State Dept and CIA are the most responsible for this 'crisis'. Sure Russia annexed Crimea but their hand was forced. ZH regulars can smell your bullshit from 100 miles away. The fact that you alledgedly believe the complete horseshit talking points and 'facts' from known certified, pathological liars reveals you to be an idiot, a shill or both. I'm gonna go with both.
which pathological liars? you post on this website which means you have some ax. you have been brainwashed by the self-loathing doomers here talking their own short s&p and long gold posns
The White House. The State Department.The CIA. The Pentagon. The EU. The New York Times. Time. Fox News. MSNBC.
Those liars.
I just look at facts and reporting from all sides. I post on this site because they do the same. And the 'facts' from the likes of those I listed are almost exclusively lies and propaganda. Talk about an ax to grind. Nice pop shot at the gold bugs. You are a funny shill pendragon.
i am a uk citizen and not exposed to any of the outlets you mention. better luck next time
Oh really? You aren't exposed to the news(read bullshit) makers (the WH, the State Dept, Downing Street, Etc)? That's very striking considering the same things they are saying about Ukraine are the same things that you are saying! Imagine that...
the british are not involved in russia or ukraine. the bbc is an unbiased news organisation run by a trust to ensure it's even handedness. imagine that...
.
Made me laugh strongly. That is not even propaganda. That is fantasy. Fantasy world.
Pretty clear to all now that this pendragon guy is a US citizen steadfastly.
Well, Pentragon, I do. I grew up in Western Ukraine, small town near Lviv. And I can tell you that you are just one of those"usefull idiots" (judjing by your language you are in your teens), getting your kicks by trolling. Some trolls are smart, but you are not. The best way to deal with trolls like you - ignore them.
if english was your mother tongue you might have a clue but it isn't and you don't
Give me a break. You're just recycling BS propaganda from yahoo or CNN or FOX, or MSNBC, or or or. All your sources are bought and paid for. Use your head muppet.
Anyone who yearns for the USSR is a moron. Full stop.
That being said -- anyone who opposes the Tribe's international banking carter is a friend of mine.
What? Who's doing the 'sabotaging' of the peace here? Do you have any grip on the reality?
Russia invaded Crimea
Russia stole the Ukrainian navy.
Russia used armed forces to take Ukrainian airbases and defense materials.
Russia admitted training separatists.
Russia has also clearly been providing heavy arms to attack another country via proxy.
On the other hand Washington could have this week flooded in heavy weapons, but didn't. It has instead conferred with Europe, played a bit of bad-cop, and decided to give one more chance for Putin to change the outcome from here.
What's going to happen now is Ukraine will continue to insist Ukraine remains a unitary Sovereign territory.
So it will be up to the Russian enclave to decide if it's prepared to live with that peacefully, and submit to the Ukrainian constitution and processes of law or else Ukraine certainly will be flooded with those heavy weapons.
So if there is going to be any 'sabotaging' of the ceasefire, it will be the rebels who do it.
It will all come down to what the rebels now do with this (most probably final) opportunity to avoid a much, much worse war, right where their families wish to continue to live.
Russia DID NOT invade Crimea fool!
It is amazing to watch how many trolls talk of "crimea annexation" as if it was a new flavor or a synonymon of "weapons of mass destruction". Most even don't know what "crimea" and "annexation" exactly mean - which is not really surprising given the fact that for CNN Hongkong is in Africa.
It's amazing how the NWO trolls come out of the wood work when NWO/MIC narrative about Ukraine is called into question. A message to all the neo-con, retard shills.. You are so transparent it's hilarious. Stop engaging these low information, low IQ shills.
a quick check of my zh wank word bingo scorecard - nwo - check, troll - check, neo-con - check, shill - check....full house. wankbingo
You forgot the most important: "nwo moron", which incidentally fits you best...
Sorry dickhead (can I call you that?), we actually saw them doing it, AND we saw them encircling and taking Ukrainian airbases in Crimea by armed intimidation and some firing, AND we saw Russian Navy boarding and stealing the Ukrainian navy, and we saw an attack on a remaining Ukrainian naval ship approaching Crimea. PLUS the Russians are currently providing troops, weapons and naval and airborne supplies into Crimea, PLUS Putin has even delivered speeches claiming Crimea to be a Russian 'Sacred Site', and asserting to use nuclear weapons to prevent his invasion being reversed.
And you, and the other like minded-clown are completely delusional idiots, who live in a fantasy world of optional facts.
The crimea was/is/will always be Russian. Historical, geopolitical fact.
But I am sure Putin is open to constructive talks if the US gives back Texas to Mexico with Russia opening a huge military near Santiago-de-Dallas so as to protect Eurasian interests.
fluffers at work.
Dumb cat is meowing again...
The only reason why Merkel and Hollande have publicly distanced themseleves from the USA is pure optics. They all know the Americans will continue undermine things in the Ukraine by playing to the ultranationalist power structure they've helped put into power there. So, it's the benefit of Merkel and Hollande to come out publicly even though they know there is no chance in hell anything they do will every stop Washington. Hollande and Merkel are simply playing to their domestic audiences. They can appear to their citizenry that they are opposed in principle so there is no threat to them poltiically for things to get worse. It's enough "red meat" for the left leaning people to blunt their future criticisms. "At least they tried..." when both are just dancing to the tune Washington is playing. If Merkel and Hollande really did oppose American activities in Ukraine, they would have distanced themselves ages ago, especially when the whole sanctions mess started to drag them both further underwarter.
It's exactly the same mentality that Obama has put forward with his new budget filled with all sorts of rhetoric for the left-leaning base. he knows damned sure it's never going to ever pass, so he can position himself as a champion without the threat that the traditional backers of the Democratic party will abandon them. They play populist on camera, and cut backroom deals with the money men and reassure them it's all kabuki theatre.
It's all a game, a shallow obvious one that 90% of the population continually miss.
Question everyone. Make sure you do not misplace your trust because people like Obama, Merkel, Hollande, Harper and, yes, even Putin will screw you over.
appeasement. that's a novel stance for the europeans to adopt.
The ZWO global gangbankster puppetmasters want war, so there will be war.
It's just a matter of more bribes for the corrupt traitorous barking seals we still euphemistically call "our representatives".
Here is the public statement from the separatist republics:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zht9O1onJMA
What could possibly go wrong when those nice Nazis in Kiev are still effectively running your government?
If the Ukrainians believed their government had been installed there would be an uprising;
There is an uprising;
Therefore, the the Ukrainians believe their government had been installed
When pro-Russia puppet #1 decided to align the nation economically with Russia, there was an uprising in the west that resulted in his ouster.
After, when pro-Europe puppet #2 was installed, there was an uprising in the east.
Somehow, in your mind, puppet #1 was a pawn of Russia, and his overthrow was democracy.
Now, puppet #2 is a model of democracy, and it is terrorism.
Considering you defeated youself with your own argument, you clearly have an agenda. So, as far as I am concerned, this conversation is over.
That is completely distorted bullshit.
Yanukovych rejected the unbearable conditions of the IMF loans offered, and also required, as the prerequisites to the signing of an EU economic association agreement. Yanukovych absolutely wanted to go the path of an EU association, but he made it clear to Parliament that the IMF's terms were not survivable, for the Ukrainian State, so EU association was thus rendered impossible.
At no time did Yanukovych reject EU association, and at no time did he re-align with Moscow.
So all that really occurred in mid-Nov 2013 was the IMF deliberately offered non-negotiable terms, which inevitably damned Yanukovych, damned Ukraine to financial suicide, and when inevitably rejected, then consigned Ukraine to turmoil and war.
I see the IMF as very much a prime culpable party and instigator of the resulting international chaos, and they should never again have any such role or deciding capacity in such a geopolitically sensitive and dangerous situation.
So, on the contrary, your grossly dishonest (or else deeply ignorant) portrayal of those events reeks of raw propaganda and mischief-making.
Nothing discredits and obscures the facts more effectively than the "conspiracy theory" card. Nice play. You can feel free to exercise congnative dissonance and ignore recent history all you want.
Yes, because Kiev values Democracy in the East of the Country so much, they are murdering thousands because they were "democratic" the wrong way.
you mean thousands of russian separatists armed by moscow?
Look at the bright side: If Russian forgeign diplomacy is as confused and inept as the US, in 6-9 months Russia will be fighting the same separatists they armed.
Russian?
Pray tell -- how many active members of the Russian military who are there -- on orders from Moscow -- haave the Ukies captured?
Oh yes -- ZERO.
Explain to me what its bad the Russians are arming the Rebels, but its okay we are arming the Kiev Junta?
scroll up and read the AFP tweet at the foot of the story. have any arms been supplied to ukraine up to now? (rhetorical)
Hi,
ma name is a FUCKING AIRPLANE LOAD OF BENJAMINS. Have we met?
Assdragon, stop speading lies. We have homework for you: Go find out what happend to the MH 17 black box. When done, tell us about the air traffic recordings confiscated by the Ukrainian secret service. One could do this simultaneously but given your sub-monkey IQ that would be too much of a challenge.
In case you should'nt be cynical: The government in Kiev was not elected but put in place by a putsch, president A. Janzenjuk was hand picked by Victoria Nuland and the later attempt to confirm the goverment by elections is invalid since according to the country's constitution all parts of the country have to participate in the election and the could'nt.
LOL
"Winning" = "ethnic cleansing"?
are you asking the question or giving us your view?
It's a commentary.
Porndragon, in light of the votes you receive your usage of "us" and "we" does not seem justified.
I think this agreement is hardly palatable for Kiev etc. hence why they won't sign it officially so we could see V3.0 of Maidan if it is actually implemented as it gives what equates to federal status of the regions at Ukies expense.
It's bad for Kiev, not Ukraine. Clearly, Kiev != Ukraine as more and more people there are finally seeing the sh*tshow and parade of dingbats in Kiev.
Looks to me like people in the Ukraine are simply tired of swapping various oligarch administrations who do nothing but use their positions to loot and steal (and Poroschenko, I can assure you, will be no different).
Federalization would have saved Ukraine, but it would not have saved Kiev and that's why Turchinov understood where the mood was going and why he unleashed tanks and air bombers on the people in the east. So, just like Washington sees things, if it can't have it all, then no one else can. So, scorched earth policy it is when they are faced with having to live in a just society where they would find themselves on the out. Poroschenko was put into power and inherited the same group of people from before (his cabinet was virtually identical so the continuation of the ATO is no surprise). Any sort of federalization would have slowed the gravy train that was created for connected individuals in Kiev. No more would political favour be transformed into material goods. You can see why the elites in Kiev have been consistent even between this government and the previous ones.
I also see this a bit more broadly. For example, Hollande comes out last week with the A-bomb. "Autonomy." Well meaning buffonry that hides more nefarious intent (I suspect this and given the constant stream of bad leadership decisions, one has to stop believing in coincidences). That would be the death knell for the Ukraine and I suspect he was towing the Washington line here. At the end of the day, dangling autonomy for the east would ensure that *both* sides won't agree. Kiev cannot tolerate and erosion of their power. If the east gets autonomy, how long before other regions in Ukraine demand equal treatment? Now one can understand why people like Poroschenko will not tolerate any talk of federalizatoin. As for the other side, the east would simply see autonomy as a stepping stone to independence and, quite frankly, would end up as another region in the Russian Federation. If that region were to secede, we all know Washington and NATO would continue to find ways to destablize DPR and LPR.
Now, as for who wins, people think that Putin is going to win here. He's not. The winner is actually NATO, and they've already one and just waiting for the dust to settle. No matter how this turns out, NATO is on more of the Russian border. If Kiev wins, they're in NATO for "protection." If they lose, and the country is divided, then NATO will be in what's left of the Ukraine.
Give it time. It will collapse without any military intervention.
So now we can add Ukraine having no way of avoiding default (through the spoils of war) to Greece's
Unless countries have the balls and organization to stand up to US hegemony at the IMF (and it doesn't take much - less than a 20% shareholder rebellion) - then the US can continue to bailout Ukraine and the big European banks (through the PIIGS).
The flip side of US hegemony at the IMF is that cock blocking Uncle Sam can be acieved with the same 17.69% of the vote that US currently wields.
Oh, c'mon, I don't think Russia should. I mean, the US would never do such a thing.
Any news on who is going to bailout Ukraine?
Merkel asked Russia for help. Can't understand his nyet.
"Somebody here" (that includes you) want badly the WW3.
Because if "Russia finishes the job" one can be sure of that. So the only solution is ceasefire and the reunification of Ukraine, followed by cleanup of the Nazis.
Who's gonna clean up the Nazis?
DPR, LNR and the rebelling Ukrainians. Who else?
Wrong. At the end of the day, Ukraine will split with eastern provinces joining Russia, and the western provinces joining the EU, assuming the EU still exists at that time.
Somehow I doubt that the Novorussian forces will just let the Ukrainian Armed Forces walk out of the Debaltsevo cauldron.
How many NATO soldiers, American mercenaries and other cretins are in with the stupid Uki fools who allowed themselves to be caught up in yet another cauldron
Worst. Amy. Ever.
Re: tactical nuke. And not one word from the US or the world at large? I'm skeptical.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OTR-21_Tochka
it wasn't nuclear :)
The initial Scarab A entered service with the Soviet Army in 1975. It carries one of three types of warhead:
Ts
If they had used a tac nuke I have to believe that Russia would have been using their media to broadcast that one loud and clear.
Have not heard a word from Izvestiya, Rossiyskaya Gazeta, Pravda, RT etc.
Anything with doses of radiation including death counts would have been tabulated by now.
That isn't to say that the team in D.C. isn't capable of it in the future. But when that event makes it's debut a game changer from the other side will be in the works and you'll know it!
Thats a misleading headline from what is quite likely just a slip of the tongue. The warhead isnt 500tons its 500kg and theres alread a dozen photos and videos of the creater and reporters standing in it to show its size.
Hmm, so that explains the 200 point(!!) pop on the DAX this morning.
I wish this whole thing would just get it over with and fall apart. 7 years now of this complete bollocks and bullshit.
DavidC
Love the Tweet,that must be what, the 100th invasion this year?
I imagine russia sent in water tanks for humanitarian aid, but thats just how the West rolls with its representations of events
"Even before the negotiations had reached an agreement, the IMF sent out a notice that its staff had agreed on new US$ 17.5 billion extended fund facility with Ukraine."
Why did nt they do that for greece? suckers ...
If Russia sets up a naval base in Sparta -- I would expect something similar.
Essentially federation without calling it federation, seps get own government, militia/army, laws etc., and Kiev has to pay for it and not Moscow. Only after all this is done and local elections are held can Ukraine forces gain control of the border until then its open season for "special deliveries". How long this will last I have no idea I think it won't go down too well with Maidanuts.
Anybody hear about Angi Merkel bucking for head of the UN?
It was reported Poroshenko left the meeting for a while to talk with "command"... I guess they told him not to sign anything...
Some chatter that he spoke with Romania and another useless country to set up meetings to see if they will send arms (believed purpose of calls but speculation). He cannot sign this agreement because it does not bode too well for his political career with the nutters in Kiev etc.
I love it when a (neocon) plan falls apart.
Nothing has "fallen apart" yet... all they did is reach a verbal agreement, no paperwork signed... we know how well the previous cease-fire agreement went... so I'm not that optimistic. Of course I do hope the agreements can be implemented, but I fear there are evil forces behind the scenes that want this disaster to continue...
Obozo will announce defensive arms for Ukraine today.
Damn the torpedos,full steam ahead No. 1.
And poor Joe Biden's son. I guess because he's not associated with Haliburton, it's o.k.
+1000!
(1) European policy is less algo driven and stock price concerned than in the US. The continous financial support of the proxy war in the Ukraine is difficult to sell on the long run to the european taxpayer who will indirectly also suffer from the sanctions against Russia. The Greek support for the sanctions seems to be on the brink and with a Greek veto in place they sanctions could not survive. It has been about the last chance for Merkel to broker something that could explain a later lift of the sanctions. Call it a preemptive measure from Merkel's side. (2) The 50 km buffer zone shall likely be largely on Ukraine territory to prevent Ukraine's artillerie (ranging up to 45 km) from shelling living areas in east Ukraine (including the use of cluster ammunition as reported by Human Rights Watch on their webpage).
Read somewhere recently that the U.S. is looking to send some old A10 (ground attack) aircraft to help the brave Ukie forces defend themselves against the civilians in eastern apartment blocks.
Sigh...as of this morning Italy can finance its 30 year debt, that will never be repaid, at the same rate as the US. Efficient markets, congrats Krugmanites and banksters of the world.
So ... this bullshit will last all of a day.
Putin is sooooo gonna FUCK THE EU!
I think this quote sums it all up very nicely!
Putin got em. Im sure he told them that if they reduce Russia to utter starvation and chaos, he will launch nukes everywhere, starting with 50 warheads headed at israel. Its the only recourse he has. Desperate times call for desperate measures.
I am seeing some certain flaws in Obama's demeanour which are readily picked up on. Firstly, when standing he appears to carry his weight more on one leg which twists his spine, the creases in his suit emphaise this.
Secondly, his head and shoulders are coming foward and he is starting to lurch, this combined with his weight lose in the jawbone facial area which makes his ears appear to stick out more.
These posture issues appear to make him look primitive.
Putin on the other hand stands with equal weight on each leg meaning vertical creases (if any) in his suit. He also keeps his shoulders and head held back so as to define his centre of mass.
If the first round of this battle is in posture, then for me, Putin is winning hands down - He has the posture of a winner.
Obummer is reverting to his natural stance..
Which anyone can see in any zoo with a monkey house, particularly where all the male chinps are forced into the same cage for long periods.
there will be no lasting peace in ukrain until one side is completely bashed down
ukrainians are simply too stubborn and never keep their promises
I am convinced that the only reason Porky signed this agreement was to get his troops out of the cauldron. Once they are safe, he will pull out the big guns again and start killing women and children again - he is SO good at that!
Oh Poop
.........
The devil is in the details and its all about money. Ukraine and Donbass are bankrupt.
Who pays? and for what?
That has still to be sorted out, as the dividing line between Ukraine and Novorussian domains (en detail).
There also have to be "fair" elections to define the political structure of this deal in secessionist regions.
THE BIG BRAKE ON MILITARIST PLAYS IS THAT NEITHER THE EU NOR PUTIN HAVE THE MONEY TO PAY FOR MORE MILITARY TURBULENCE. (Only Potus does...and that...)
Unless there are bigger stakes to the GREAT game than JUST Ukraine.
Lets see...
Now the question is: what do we have to show for our money?
Victoria Nuland famously said the US has invested more than 5 billion dollars in Ukraine. That was more than a year ago, and does not count expenditure since. So I repeat the question: what do we have to show for our money?
Zilch. Zero. Nada. Declare vistory and go home.
Hooray! Obama keeps us safe.
Obummer will only temporarily lick his wounds.
He will be back again with more nonsense and this time with more force
You can keep a rabid wild dog down can you?
And this time he will act on his own without Merkel or Hollande.
Possibility that his English Bulldog may gave him support.
February 12, 2015
Translated by Kristina Rus
Marina Kuzina, Kharkov News Agency:
If the President of Ukraine will sign an agreement about peace and withdrawal of troops today, he should not return to Kiev - he will be immediately destroyed. This opinion was expressed by the human rights activist, a leader of the civic organization "Mothers of Ukraine", Galina Zaporozhtseva.
"I personally hope for a peace agreement and very much would like one. But I have a justified suspicion that even if a peace plan is signed, Kiev will violate it once again. Representatives of the "hawks" are not interested in the end of hostilities, because too much easy money is earned on war," - said Zaporozhtseva.
She also stressed that the Unites States will not allow Poroshenko to make peace. Only Europe and Russia are interested in peace.
Recall that U.S. Congress registered a bill, which provides military assistance to Ukraine at $1 billion. In particular, the head of the Committee on Armed Services of the U.S. Senate, John McCain insists on arms shipments.
"If Poroshenko will sign an agreement on ceasefire and withdrawal of troops, he should not return to Kiev. He will be immediately destroyed, and replaced with Yatsenyuk, who will begin a new, more bloody stage of the war," - said human rights activist.
http://fortruss.blogspot.com/2015/02/if-poroshenko-signs-off-on-peace-he...
Look, Unless & Until 'someone,' some force gets in there that is sizable enough that can not only monitor, but also shoot back at belligerents from both sides, no amount of announcing cease fires is going to work, Period. Welcome to endless wars 21st century style...
IF ONLY!
If only ' Hoss Lurch Ketchup Kerry ' had participated in proceedings we might have had something more substantial in the final draft.
Signed
Sarkus Bastardus
Only if he brought along James Taylor
Hahahahahahahah
All the neo cons in Washington are purple with apoplexy. All their fucking carefully laid plans are turned to utter shite and Putin fucks Obummer the Kenyan monkey with his sabre again.
Neatly pills France and Germany into his allies fold now, and I am certain the fat bitch merkel, with any sense of self preservation at all, told the fucking fat choc faggot that he does what hes told or Germany will arm Putin just to finish the fat bastard off.
Notice not one word from the war mongering Nazi backing corrupt slimy scum in K St.
Wish I was there to piss in Nulands gaping mouth as she screams in pain
Her real name is "Nudelman". Another Khazarian psychopath . . . .
'Paranoid psychopaths' as the entire world is out to get them - even though they never, ever do anything wrong!
Putin know Porky won't come close to abiding by this agreement, but that Russia will look good in helping to engineer it (and possibly even get EU sanctions removed in the process). And your point about having herded Germany and France over to his side is astute because now if Porky reneges on the deal and Putin ramps up the military support again, they will have difficulty opposing him. Also, Germany and France will look pretty stupid supporting any future US initiatives there.
Good job, Putin.
Not sure how they can make a deal involving Hitler (US) without Hitler there
You are a fool.
Some Minsk photos
http://img.ct24.cz/cache/616x411/article/63/6288/628703.jpg
http://img.ct24.cz/cache/616x411/article/63/6288/628711.jpg
http://www.ceskatelevize.cz/ct24/svet/301391-valka-nervu-evropsti-statnici-jednali-na-summitu-v-minsku-celou-noc/
Interpretation:
Tzar Putin, who has always claimed that Russia is not involved in or supporting the invasion by Russians in Ukraine,
1. Acts as the negotiator for those invading forces that he is disavows any responsibility for
2. Agrees to withdraw the heavy weapons that he always claimed Russia never provided.
Only Russians, with their history of tzars and soviet dictators and "news" media like "pravda", ie "truth", could believe this pile of 100% propaganda shit.
Putin is just manipulating the idiot self-self-abssobed western Europeans, consolidating gains, and preparing for the next territorial land grab west.
I don't know if you realize how low quality your narrative is.
What would a "stooge" know about quality ???????
Must be nice to live in your world. Fantasy all the way.
Stop smoking marijuana and your abused vestigal brain might possibly function for the first time.
Gotta love US citizens. Quick on the draw with ad hominem when they have no ground to stand on, which is often.
Careful not to lump.
Not everyone in America repeats the official narrative and calls it critical thinking and the truth...like the probe.
RIPS
As Abe Lincoln said; "It's better to be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt".
Knowing this, why do you speak ????
This is a ceasefire agreement? It is a recipe for disaster!
"Merkel concludes by saying that "All things considered I would like to say that what we’ve reached now is giving us more hope than if we hadn’t agreed on anything. I don’t have any illusions, we don’t have any illusions that a lot of work is still required but there’s a real chance for things to take a turn for the better."
Was it just me? Or did I hear Angela's right shoulder crack after she made that statement with a "yelp"?...
Thought I smelled "white monkey" and the "lucky charms" goblin after she "cried out"?
Putin punk'd the clowns agains:
KIEV (Reuters) - Around 50 tanks, 40 missile systems and 40 armored vehicles crossed overnight into east Ukraine from Russia via Izvaryne border crossing into the separatist Luhansk region, a Kiev military spokesman said on Thursday.
http://news.yahoo.com/fifty-tanks-40-missile-systems-crossed-russia-east-114255433.html
2 hours ago
KIEV (Reuters) - Around 50 tanks, 40 missile systems and 40 armored vehicles crossed overnight into east Ukraine from Russia via Izvaryne border crossing into the separatist Luhansk region, a Kiev military spokesman said on Thursday.
And you heard it on yahoo and reuters... VOAs commercial arm!
Perhaps it came from this acquisition? What I love about that story is the Hungarian government went viral with that deal after they took the Kiev governments money!!!!
Bwa Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha!!!!
Source? "Yahoo.com"
No ceasefire with the Anglo-Zionist Axis. Novorossians must not become the new Palestinians.
**REPEAT OF POST MADE ON 'Spot The Mal-Investment Boom' THREAD**
Greetings to all the Zero Hedge posters,
This is my second post and, having joined up (after a belatedly extended acc verification process?), would like to say how much I enjoy the witty posts made by you guys, which is most times.
My reason for joining was so as to weigh in on the poll/debate regarding the accent of the foreign merc in the Ukraine which some posters had speculated might be South African. Well, as a Saffa of British extract I can tell you all quite confidently that he is neither S. African nor British. He absolutely has to be American (North East coast perhaps?) or maybe Canadian at a stretch.
Anyway, I look forward to interacting with you all from time to time. FYI, if you need to know, I am absolutely dead set against the "Zionist" agenda. Well, it's either appropriately described as a Zionist agenda or otherwise as a flavour of 'Anglo-Zionist' agenda, but with strong overtones of 'Zionist', and I shall be opposing it at every opportunity. There are people intent on pushing us all into destruction and I refuse to stand idly by while they do so.
For the rest, have a great day,
Beans
I just found out that nulands pet monkey yatsarsefuck was only told what happened AFTER he demanded to know the details
You couldn't make this shit up.
Clearly Germany and France are now working hand in glove with Putin to stop what the three of them know will Europe more than even Ukraine and they didn't want yatsarsefuck on the phone to his control to update the cunts on K Street
The only thing that can end the Ukraine war is EU solvency, and demographically speaking that's not gonna happen growing Muslims, ask the Tsapiras mob coalition,, Muslims traditionally vote socialist.
Islam is the Arab version of Jewish Socialism, and they will vote as taught.
No pass go .
To use a wrestling analogy: you don't get to call time out when you are being pinned to the mat. The Rebels would be fools to fall for this shit again. Only way for a true ceasefire is a military defeat of the illegal coup junta.