The US' Suicidal Strategy On Ukraine

Tyler Durden's picture

Submitted by Chris Martenson via Peak Prosperity,

Ukraine is back in the news cycle and for good reason. The previous cease-fire has broken, fighting is intensifying, and the western-supported and installed leadership in Kiev is losing the campaign.  At this point, the West's choice is to either double down and bet even more on a badly failing set of policies, or admit it has lost this round and seek to deescalate the situation.

Meanwhile, Europe has finally woken up to the risks and seems to be ready to carve out a different path than the US. A lot hinges on the apparent 'truce' deal between Russia and Europe's leaders this week.

As the President Hollande of France put it on Feb 7th, "If we don't find not just a compromise but a lasting peace agreement, we know perfectly well what the scenario will be. It has a name, it's called war." Of course - since the deal's signing, shelling has continued with more deaths.

He's not simply referring to an escalation of the factions fighting within Ukraine. He's warning about the real deal:  a wider conflict that could easily spread into Europe, and possibly, the embroil powers across the world.

A Recipe For Unrest

As I've written previously, the West, especially the US, was instrumental in toppling the democratically-elected President of Ukraine back in February 2014. US officials were caught on tape plotting the coup, and then immediately supported the hastily-installed and extremist officials that now occupy the Kiev leadership positions.

In short, the crisis in Ukraine was not the result of Russia's actions, but the West's. Had the prior President, Yanukovych, not been overthrown, it's highly unlikely that Ukraine would be embroiled in a nasty civil war. Relations between Russia and the West would be in far better repair.

Russia, quite predictably and understandably, became alarmed at the rise of fascism and Nazi-sympathetic powers on its border. Remember the repeated statements by Kiev officials recommending extermination of the Russian speakers who make up the majority living in Eastern Ukraine. Were a parallel situation happening in Canada, for example, I would fully expect the US to be similarly and seriously interested and involved in the outcome.

The only people seemingly surprised by this predictable Russian reaction towards protecting its people and border interests are the neocons at the US State Department who instigated the conflict in the first place. In my experience, these are dangerous people principally because they seem to lack perspective and humility.

Ukraine's Civil War

Going Poorly For The Regime

Looking at the state of things, it's not going well militarily for the Kiev regime. Huge losses and persistent reports of low morale among Ukrainian troops tell the tale: Kiev is losing badly. 

Let's begin with the reports of the fighting in Ukraine which have recently intensified:

Ukraine bloodshed intensifies ahead of peace summit

Feb 11, 2015

 

Kiev (AFP) - Intense fighting in Ukraine, including a devastating rocket strike on Kiev's military headquarters in the east, killed at least 37 people on Tuesday, the eve of a four-way peace summit.

Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko said rockets for the first time hit the military's command centre in Kramatorsk, the government's administrative capital in the region, well behind the frontlines and far from rebel positions.

 

The latest fighting also saw rebels seek to encircle railway hub Debaltseve and Ukrainian forces launch a counter-offensive around the strategic port of Mariupol.

(Source)

The rebels have encircled and ruined a number of Kiev forces over the past several months in what are called 'cauldrons', where the encircled forces are slowly ground down and destroyed. This appears to have finally happened in Debatlseve, which would be just another in a long string of heavy losses for Kiev.

The losses in prior cauldrons have been staggeringly high, with many analysts concluding that Kiev has been underreporting losses by as much as 90%.

I cannot vouch for all of these sources. But the following is a typical example of reporting coming from the front lines of the Ukraine conflict, which directly contradicts the official Kiev war reports:

Ukraine hides devastating losses as Russia-backed fighters surge forward

Jan 25, 2015

 

ARTYOMOVSK, Ukraine – An ashen-faced man in a loose-fitting military uniform shuffles past a blood-soaked stretcher propped against the wall. Slowly stirring a cup of tea, he watches Ukrainian military officials announce the day’s casualties – one killed and 20 wounded.

 

“Don’t believe what they tell you,” he says, checking the door is closed before continuing.

 

“There are many, many more. At least 280 were injured in just one day last week and 30 or 40 killed. There were many more killed this week, Debaltseve and Konstantinovka are the worst cities now. I take 18 wounded to Kharkiv myself every day.”

 

The man, who didn’t want to be named, is a medic in Ukraine’s overstretched, under-resourced army. Clearly traumatized, he speaks quietly and hesitantly, barely audible over the low rumble of artillery fire from the outskirts of town.

 

His words confirm Ukraine’s worst-kept secret - that the Ukrainian army is drastically understating its casualties. But only now is the scale of that understatement starting to become clear.

 

On Jan. 22, the director of Kostiantynivka hospital told Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe monitors that in the last two weeks that the number of soldiers admitted has “increased dramatically, with figures comparable to those in August and September 2014.”

 

Between Aug. 10 and Sept. 3, when Russian troops first entered Ukraine in support of a beleaguered rebel force on the brink of defeat, the Kyiv Post estimates at least 200 servicemen were killed.

 

Many of the recent casualties are coming from areas around the besieged town of Debaltseve, a strategic rail junction between Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts, where thousands of Ukrainian soldiers are struggling to prevent being surrounded and cut off from Ukrainian lines.

 

The town’s defenders – and its civilian population - have faced an incessant artillery bombardment from three sides since Russian-backed rebels launched a massive offensive all along the front line last week.

(Source)

I have read enough first-hand reports to suspect that this article is pretty close to the truth. The contradicting numbers in the statements from the Kiev regime about losses are very hard to believe.

Part of what plagues Kiev's forces is the age-old problem of fielding an unmotivated force. Not everybody is excited to be fighting against people from within their own country. Moreover, training is poor, equipment and ammunition are in poor shape and supply, and pay is often late in coming if it comes at all. This is a very usual litany of problems that have plagued struggling armies through the centuries.

On the other side of the battle lines, you have people fighting for their homes, their families and their ethnic community, which the Kiev regime has promised to exterminate if and when it's given the chance.

Dubious Reporting

It's interesting to contrast foreign reporting with US reporting on the conflict:

As fighting deepens in eastern Ukraine, casualties rise and truce is all but dead

Jan 20, 2015

 

MOSCOW — Intensifying battles, mounting death tolls and new accusations of Russian interference in eastern Ukraine have marked some of the worst fighting between government troops and pro-Russian separatists since last summer, rendering a months-old cease-fire agreement effectively defunct.

 

The two sides have been trading heavy fire at the Donetsk airport, a prize that, though more symbolic than strategic, has been at the center of punishing recent attacks that have reduced much of the facility to rubble. Each side has claimed control of the airport at various points, and militia and army fighters there continued to launch strikes against each other over the past several days.

 

The U.S. ambassador to Ukraine, Geoffrey R. Pyatt, bolstered Ukraine’s accusations Tuesday, saying the United States was alarmed by what he called a Russian-provoked military escalation, coupled with the arrival of large quantities of weaponry from Russian territory, according to the Russian Interfax news service.

 

Ukrainian Foreign Minister Pavlo Klimkin told reporters Tuesday that pro-Russian separatists were “taking advantage” of the military’s compliance to seize “very substantial territory — more than 500 square kilometers.”

(Source)

Let's decode this piece of writing from the Washington Post and provide some essential context that is, regrettably, missing far too often from US media sources when reporting on the Ukraine conflict.

To begin, there's the assertion once again that Russia has been supplying "large quantities" of weapons to the separatists.  While this may or may not be true, not one shred of satellite or other imagery or any other evidence has been provided by the US to support that charge.

In this day and age it is literally not possible to move large amounts of heavy weaponry across open land without satellites and/or drones taking pictures of them. 

Furthermore, in this case the charges are being levied by one Geoffrey Pyatt, the infamous US ambassador to Ukraine who was caught on tape discussing the imminent coup of then-President Yanukovych. He also famously tweeted out a crudely doctored photo purporting to show that the missile attack on MH-17 came from the separatists -- evidence that was quickly defrauded by the intelligence community.

Why the Washington Post would report anything from Pyatt as worthy of our serious consideration given his blighted track record so far is a complete mystery to me. It would be like recommending your friend to a doctor you knew had committed gross malpractice multiple times.

Next, the separatists are not 'taking advantage' of a one-sided lull in the fighting to claim territory. They have been winning battle after battle. What they have taken advantage of is the poor training and lackluster military strategy undertaken by Kiev's forces.

It should also be noted that the above article presents the status of the conflict an even match.  There's no indication that one side is winning or losing.

This is par for the course with US media reports these days and it's really a disturbing indication that the shoddy journalistic ethics on display during the horrendously mis-reported weapons of mass destructions lies that led to the most recent US attack on Iraq are still with us today. 

It's quite sad, really. Because when it comes to an issue as important as a potential conflict with Russia, the US owes it to itself to get the facts right. The stakes are worthy of that.

As a final point about the shortcomings of the Washington Post piece above concerns the heavily contested Donetsk airport. Five days prior to the above article's publication, the airport had been clearly reported by other outlets to have already been lost by Kiev forces:

Russia-backed separatists seize Donetsk airport in Ukraine

Jan 15, 2015

 

Russian-backed separatists announced that they have captured the shattered remains of the Donetsk airport terminal in eastern Ukraine and plan to claw back more territory, further dashing hopes for a lasting peace agreement.

 

The airport, on the fringes of the rebel stronghold of Donetsk, has been at the centre of bitter battles since May. Control over it was split between the separatists and Ukrainian forces, who had held onto the main civilian terminal. Reduced to little more than a shell-strewn wreck, the building is of limited strategic importance but has great symbolic value.

 

An AP reporter saw a rebel flag hoisted over that building Thursday, although fighting still appeared to be ongoing. Ukraine insisted government troops were holding their positions at the airport.

(Source)

Instead of the airport being up for grabs as the WaPo article implies, it has had the rebel flag flying over it as of five days ago. It's clearly in the hands of one side, the separtists'. That's a huge difference, and is just one more example of heavily slanted writing that passes for news in the US these days. 

But leaving the shoddy reporting aside, the main summary here is that the intense fighting in Ukraine has resulting in mounting losses for Kiev. 

All of which provides the context for this week's hurriedly-brokered 'peace summit' that will involve France, Germany, Russia and Ukraine.

Splitting Away

Europe has begun the process of splitting away from the US on the matter of Russia and Ukraine. 

What's interesting is that an emergency meeting is being convened amongst several of the top leaders in the world, but looks who's suspiciously absent from the talks:

Merkel and Hollande’s surprise Moscow visit raises hopes of Ukraine deal

Feb 5, 2015

 

The leaders of Germany and France abruptly announced a summit with the Russian president, Vladimir Putin, in Moscow on Friday in response to overtures from the Kremlin, raising hopes of a breakthrough in the year-old Ukraine conflict.

 

The sudden and unusual decision by the chancellor, Angela Merkel, and the president, François Hollande, to travel to Moscow, with the French leader talking of decisions of war and peace, increased the stakes in the crisis while also raising suspicions that the Kremlin was seeking to split Europe and the US. Putin was said to have made “initiatives” to the European leaders in recent days.

 

Merkel and Hollande met the Ukrainian president, Petro Poroshenko, in Kiev on Thursday evening but left without making any comment.

 

EU diplomats and officials said that growing US talk of arming Ukraine was pushing the Russians and Europeans towards a diplomatic deal, with both sides keen to avoid weapons deliveries but also to keep the US on the sidelines of the diplomacy.

(Source)

Note the progression of what transpired, which we can piece together from this and other articles. US Secretary of State John Kerry was in Kiev meeting with the president and prime minister of Ukraine, but did not attend similar meetings with Hollande and Merkel held on the same day. 

Then Hollande and Merkel jet straight off to Moscow for high level talks.

Missing in action from the Germany-France-Ukraine-Russia talks is John Kerry, President Obama, or any other ranking US official. This speaks volumes about where we are in this narrative. 

When the US started down this path of confrontation with Russia, which remains a complete strategic mystery to nearly all thoughtful observers, there were two large possible outcomes: isolating Russia and fracturing its growing ties with Europe, or accidentally fracturing the strong ties between the US and Europe.

Oops. Looks like we've opened Door #2.

I didn't know how serious it was until I read this:

Kerry Insists 'There Is No Split' With Europe on Russia, Ukraine

Feb 8, 2015

 

MUNICH — Secretary of State John Kerry on Sunday denied any divisions between the U.S. and Europe over how to handle Russia, as Germany announced another high-level summit aimed at stemming the crisis in Ukraine.

 

Kerry told a security conference in Munich that he wanted to "assure everybody there is no division, there is no split" between Washington and its European allies amid the crisis in Ukraine.

 

"We are united, we are working closely together," he told the conference following meetings with his French and German counterparts. "We all agree that this challenge will not end through military force. We are united in our diplomacy."

(Source)

It's not terribly hard to read through that diplomatic double-speak here. The US is "united in our diplomacy" with Europe, even though the US was apparently not invited to be part of the biggest gathering of heads of state on what could be the flash point for a major regional war.

Nice try, John. 

There's a saying that news is never official until it's denied. Well, I guess that makes it official: there's an emerging split between the US and Europe over the matter of Russia and Ukraine. And it's about time.

The key issue, apparently, is that the US, true to form, is ready to send in military arms to the Ukraine regime, and Europe thinks that's a bad idea for multiple reasons. I could not agree more.

After all, when has the US arming one side of a regional conflict led to regional peace and a good outcome for the citizens of any particular area? If you can't think of any recent examples, neither can I.  The track record of late is nothing short of being a complete disaster for the people of the various countries involved.  Iraq, Syria, Egypt, Yemen, and Nicaragua come to mind.

But the people of Ukraine have to be kicking themselves right about now. Not only did they fall for the rosy promises of change and hope peddled by the West, they also believed the West would be a better partner for them than Russia.  Worse, instead of finding a way to have both as partners, they adopted the West's idea that it had to be one or the other. And now their country is being rent apart.

Why We Should Care, Deeply

So what? the average American might ask. Ukraine is half a world away. Who cares what happens there?

Putting aside the humanitarian reasons for not prolonging or intensifying a regional conflict, we risk not just only America's century-long ties with western Europe, but possibly the next world war. We are pushing our agenda and armaments right up against the Russian border -- for reasons that are still completely opaque at this time -- and Russia, understandably, will simply not stand for that.

In Part 2: America Vs Russia: What's At Risk, we explore in depth what's truly at risk here, why a lasting peace agreement in Ukraine is highly unlikely to happen anytime soon, and the biggest risks concerned citizens in the West should prepare for right now. 

Click here to access Part 2 of this report (free executive summary; enrollment required for full access)

 

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Latina Lover's picture

Simon is an obvious Hasbara, if not  low level Mossad. Only an israeli agent would have the guts to report on the ground, unlike our main stream media cowards, cowering in their hotel rooms and repeating Kiev Junta talking points.

Sandmann's picture

I thought the airport neat Donetsk was a heavily fortified underground base on several levels designed to survive a Western attack in war and that the fighting involved flushing troops out of the tunnels

monger's picture

And Ukraine will be doubly passed off, or at last the people of Ukraine will, if Greece turns to Russia/China and it ends up going great for them.  

rejected's picture

"Between August 10 and September 3 when Russian Troops entered Ukraine..."

They keep repeating this stuff without anything to back them up...

Show me!

 

 

basho's picture

there is never any back up to this BS. no sources just expert BS.

mjazzguitar's picture

How? Anything can be doctored with today's technology.

jerry_theking_lawler's picture

This is a huge chess board...and Putin has captured most of the pawns. This is so obvious, why do you think everyone is asking for the gold back from the Fed? First, they don't have it, next, they have been tipped off that very, very soon there will be currency backed by gold (Russia), and maybe two (Russia and China). When this happens all hell will break loose and if you don't have physical you will be toast. Next, after this happens, Russia will be a dominate player and the EU (especially Germany) wants to play with them, or at least sell them machines, etc in exchange for energy.

I think this has been in the works for 10+ years and is playing out (with little minor hiccups here and there) but the endgame has always been the same. Once everyone figures it out then we will see some real action.

dag's picture

Putin again finessed Sambo.

Score:

Putin - 3          Sambo - 0

VooDoo6Actual's picture

Something that was not mentioned in the article that should be is that while Ukraine seems like another US blunder is to consider Ukraine w/ NATO (9 Countires & Ukraine would make 10) keeps Putin busy while the US goes after ME. Israel has gotten NORTH of 121 Billion USD (3.1+annually on the books) in foreign aid & we all know that number is WAY low. Israel will be working to help sack Syria & possibly Iran if they can. The Neo-Ottoman Caliphate is alive & Oded Yinon's plan for the greater expansion of Isreal in their sights. Possibly to expand the Wahabbi / Israel theory same DNA & tribes per Iraqi Intel Doc. etc. if they can finally sing "Kum Bi Ya" together. No matter what, Ukriane has 1/3 of the EU's farmland & Globalist's want that for GMO crops & feeding Europe's future w/ their Geo Engineered Economic Model via Terra Forming the planet. Hard to say it it becomes a reality as parts of EU is splintering / fracturing or is it a scripted show ? I'm still trying to process how a Community Oraginzer can possibly reorganize the world especially when you consider how Jacked-Up most US communities are. Gives me often quite a WTF moment. No matter what, Sea Change coming in some form or another as we are way past the Rubicon Fringe & some kind of new frontier on the event horizon. Black Swan events galore & in full retard / batshit craZY mode.. Living in history & the script is not in stone it would appear & the US still has a severe PR problem to overcome.

basho's picture

"keeps Putin busy "

just read the news.

things are happening even if they are not featured this week on MSM.

you honestly think UE is is RU's total preoccupation?

very naive. lol

Niall Of The Nine Hostages's picture

This is merely the latest battle in the long offensive war by the Germans, its goal the conquest of Russia. It won't end till Russian troops are back at Russia's natural boundaries on the Rhine and Danube, and all Germany Russified, with those Nazi swine lucky enough to survive packed off to reservations in Siberia.

(The Jewish oblast in the Russian Far East would be appropriate---the Jews don't need it any more, and North Korean guest workers could use extra hands.)

That done, Putin can finally have an adult conversation with Marine Le Pen and Nigel Farage about the future of Eurasia and her peoples, to best guarantee them freedom, prosperity and peace for the next thousand years.

will ling's picture

mackinder is turnin' over in his grave as you speak.

basho's picture

"This is merely the latest battle in the long offensive war by the Germans, Americans"

SmittyinLA's picture

Pure Muslim play, the Kyiv plan kill off as many Ukraine men as possible before the turn over of western Ukraine to EuroKleptostan.

SmittyinLA's picture

How long before public GPS gets turned off?

Or do they not make the connection between rockets landing on headquarters from 50 miles away with GPS?

Wasn't turning off the GPS part of our cold war strategy?

No GPS would fuck up ISIS too!

basho's picture

""If we don't find not just a compromise but a lasting peace agreement, we know perfectly well what the scenario will be. It has a name, it's called war."  "

who is going to go to war over UE?????????

is europe going to go to war over UE???????????

FR?

DE?

IT?

ES?

who?

NATO?

think about it

f*ckin' amis. settle all their problems with war.

f*ckin' neanderthals.

Youri Carma's picture

You can write long pieces about it or short but the simple truth is that the US doesn't want peace but, on the contrary, wants to escalate the war and use Europe as a punch ball to Russia. Exactly what they did in WWII:

How Corporate America Supported Nazi Germany https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6UgHmeiXyo

Banking With Hitler http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=veQfroRUWdM

Element's picture

 

" ... Putting aside the humanitarian reasons for not prolonging or intensifying a regional conflict, we risk not just only America's century-long ties with western Europe, but possibly the next world war. We are pushing our agenda and armaments right up against the Russian border -- for reasons that are still completely opaque at this time -- and Russia, understandably, will simply not stand for that. ..."

 

Thanks for the reiteration of the pro-moscow propaganda narratives, it's invaluable stuff. You reminded me of why I've read almost nothing of yours for the past 18 months. But given you wish to present a 'pikture' of what's happening, and why, and why we should care, and what the West is pondering doing, in response, you might want to consider this rather large inconvenient fly in the koolaide. Something you and other tremendously informed people are curiously somehow unaware of or just don't want to acknowledge and talk about:

Russian Parliament Approves Troop Deployment in Ukraine - March 1st 2014

 

So Russia sent in its TROOPS 11 months ago, and Washington is only now edging to merely supply weapons to Kiev to defend themselves against those Russian deployed troops and arms. But that does kinda mess with your preferred themes.

 

 

 

btw, when people take out a loan they make an APPLICATION that has legally binding terms and conditions voluntarily entered into and witnessed. Yes, a borrower is in fact responsible for their borrowings. Sorry you object to reality Chris.

Serfs Up's picture

Pics or it didn't happen, idiot.

Oh, only fake pics coming from your glorious comrade Inhofe?  

I guess that means your whole argument is as valid as Donald Trump's hairpiece.

Element's picture

There are utube archives full of video of Russian forces occupying Crimean airbases (and are still there today) and Russian marines boarding, without permission and with arms, and taking over and stealing Ukrainian naval vessels inside of Ukrainian ports on Ukrainian territory.

That is observed and documented fact, and not reversed by petty denials and quibbling punk.

But more than that there's now also a band new Russian army MLRS system that exists only within the Russian inventory that has been delivered to no other country, and has during the recent ceasefire renegotiation been inadvertently admitted to be now operating within Ukrainian territory.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-02-13/thirst-war-sen-inhofe-releases-...

Serfs Up's picture

Wow.  Another post by you full of more derp than your last post.

Achievement!  

Of course there are Russians in Crimea, you idiot, it's part of Russia.  We aren't dicussing Russians in Russia, but Ukriane.

Try to keep up.

And, no, youtube videos that cannot be verified or sourced don't count as evidence, you GCI ignorant twit.

bid the soldiers shoot's picture

Surely you are aware of the fact that Russia had leases on military bases in Crimea long before the coup/farce in the Maidan. Leases that run into the 2040s.

There are utube archives full of video of Russian forces occupying Crimean airbases (and are still there today).

How can you, someone who knows history, argue that because 200,000 protesters (out of a population of 45 million), lead by Ukrainian Nazis, threatened the legally elected president in Kiev and forced him out of the capital, pretend that it was nothing more than an illegal regime change, BACKED AND PAID FOR BY ADOLPH OBAMA AND BENITO CAMERON?

Because these two fascists, posing as advocates of freedom and liberty, assert that the coup was legal does not make it so, just as Bush's claim that Saddam had WMD did not make that true.

Everyone at ZH saw the charade in the Maidan last year, AND WE ARE ALL ENTITLED TO THINK IT WAS A CROCK OF SHIT IF WE THINK IT SO, just as you can think it is exactly as perfect as Keats' 'Ode to as Grecian Urn'.


WTFUD's picture

@ Element
Your avatar is interesting in that you've managed to brainwash yourself Excrement.

Jano's picture

Germany was not denazified orderly.

Russians should return to Germany and make the denazification again.

Or better, bomb them down with A-bombs, once for ever.

Then there will be peace.

bid the soldiers shoot's picture

 

Until the rank and file in the MSM and at zh admit to themselves that there's prolly a 100% chance that there is an essential component of the enmity between Washington, Moscow, and Beijing THAT'S NOT IN THE NEWS,  we're doomed to follow either the Fuck Russia Highway or the Neo-Nazi-American Troll Road.

Element's picture

It's a fairly simple thing, all people have to do is to explicitly decide to be non-partisan in all things, then you go down no one's road.

Curiously, there's barely a handful of commenters at zh doing that. All the rest apparently want to be perpetually led around by the nose.

Why?

It seems to be that they're spineless weak-minded followers. Sheep, getting easily herded into 'idea-pens', and they're too dumb or scared to just jump out, so they stay there and bleat the idea, of that idea-pen.

Captured!

 

No freedom for mental sheep.

bid the soldiers shoot's picture

 

Goebbels should have called it "Triumph of the Willingness of the Deutsche Volk to Believe Propaganda", but it was too long a title, so he chopped off the superfluous part of the end.

ebear's picture

"No freedom for mental sheep."

Sez the guy who cites a BBC article in support of his thesis.

No bias there.

Element's picture

OK smartarse, explain how the title of the link, and the contents of the link are 'biased', or demonstrates my bias for posting factual material that just happens to come from the BBC?

Russian Parliament Approves Troop Deployment in Ukraine - March 1st 2014

Are you trying to assert that Putin asking for war authority to put Russian combat forces into Ukraine, unvited (otherwise known as an invasion), outside of a UN mandate from the Security Council, is not relevent to this post's presumptive topic of, "The US' Suicidal Strategy On Ukraine". And you might want to ponder why that's not being expressed in a similar article as a suicidal strategy for Russia? But one thing at a time.

Let's see what (if anything) you think you've got other than that adolescent chip-on-your-shoulder that continually makes you act like a snivelling mincing snippy little twat?

 

 
Proceed.

Latina Lover's picture

President cancels ruling allowing Russian troops to cross border:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jun/24/ukraine-crisis-putin-russia...

But you already knew that, asshole.

Why aren't fighting in Debalstevo against the Russians, instead of hiding as a coward behind a keyboard?

 

ebear's picture

Seem to have struck a nerve there.  Let's take the ad hominem first, shall we?

Snivilling and mincing are actions you'd have to actually witness to report on correctly, and  since you've never met me, how can you be sure that I snivel and mince?  Maybe I only sniff a little bit, and mostly just amble along?   Not exactly the same thing.

Just as an invasion is not the same thing as acquiring the legal authority to proceed with one in the event it becomes necessary.

You blurred that distinction fairly well, just as the BBC misdirects its audience as to who actually started the hostilities, and (in particular) where the shelling of civilians is coming from.  Sure, they report on it, but they studiously avoid saying who's doing it, while the entire tenor of their non-reporting leaves the impression that it's Russia, and not Kiev that's responsible for the atrocities.

I chose that last word "atrocities" carefully, as one needs to be accurate when deailing with things of a serious nature.  This will all come out eventually - much of it already has - at which point we'll see how authoratative the BBC is on the subject when it's no longer possible to deny what really happened.

Just for the record, I supported the Maiden revolt at first until I learned from my own investigation what was actually going on.  Those posts are probably still there -  if you doubt me, go look for them.  Not going to do it for you though because you hurt my feelings calling me names and stuff, and that's just not fair!

WTFUD's picture

That's called covering all the bases or sitting on the fence, bid the soldier. Red oder Black, NO MORE BETS.

bid the soldiers shoot's picture

I beg to differ.

4 years ago I said here and on the Guardian that the US plotted the World Wide Recession of 2007 to choke off demand for crude oil because the Pentagon was concerned that 10, 20, 30, of oil was not enough for the US Army of the 21st Century.

Back in 2010 I was spot on about choking off the demand for oil.  I don't remember anyone else predicting the evaporation of demand we have seen in the last year.  If you do, please link me.

All that remains now is for some high government official to acknowledge that the planet doesn't have as much crude oil as the Dept of Energy pretends we do. 

How can we find out whether the proven reserves we've been told about for years are anywhere near accurate?  Can we channel M. King Hubbert?

Of course we can't.

So I'm just going to sit on the fence until I see another story like this:

U.S. officials cut estimate of recoverable Monterey Shale oil by 96%


http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-oil-20140521-story.html

Darwin gave us brains to think with, no?

Batman11's picture

Every country the US interferes with descends into civil war.

We should be getting used to it by now.

 

Joe A's picture

This thing is Yugoslavia 2.0 on steroids. Then also America played an instrument role in the dissolution of YU and the subsequent wars there. Europe stood by powerless then. Europe tries not to be so this time. Cause they know that this can spill over to other countries in Eastern Europe. And these are NATO countries that might invoke the common defense rule.

Is it a plan that comes together? I am not loving it.

WTFUD's picture

@ Joe A

Joe it's not America it's the Cabal who've Captured America and Rule by Executive Orders, by-passing the Stupid Congress who turn up and sign in just to receive their Welfare Cheques. Same in EU

Jack Daniels Esq's picture

Obama & Musk in Cell-block H

gadzooks's picture

I think the real problem with Ukraine is it always plays out on outside influences,

when its convennient, and then cries foul when it goes bad, we need to stop imposing

every outside option to them and hold them accountable for wanting independance,

and not taking the responsibility that goes with self-determination.

lakecity55's picture

Reminds me of Blazing Saddles.

swmnguy's picture

Mr. Martenson makes a very common mistake here.  He sees that the US has been the key instigator of the carnage in Ukraine, as in many other places around the world.  He fails to take another step back and look at the overall picture.  He needs to spend some time with a good atlas.  It's one thing to understand that the US government, through its corporate-controlled subservient media, is lying to us.  It's quite another to grasp what the lying is meant to distract from and conceal.

Of course, they don't tell me what they're really up to, so I have to get out the atlas.

Can we agree that the US is involved in bloody chaos engulfing Ukraine, Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Somalia, Yemen, Sudan, and threatening Pakistan, Iran, Egypt, Lebanon, Nigeria, Chad, Mali and potentially the various -stan countries?  I don't think there's much argument there.

So, looking at the atlas, what do we see?  All these countries are either on the perimeter of Russia and China, or they sit on top of deposits of strategic resources, or astride the routes such resources have to traverse to get to market.  Once these countries are smoldering dumpster fires of horrific violence, only the militarily strong can control the resources.  How many countries are there in the world that can place military power anywhere in the world in a matter of hours?  One, right?  And which countries are dependent on the flow of these resources, or fundamentally threatened by violent chaos on their borders, which has a way of metastasizing and crossing borders?  That would be China, Russia, and Europe, wouldn't it.

Now, have any of us read anything about Zbigniew Brzezinski's "The Grand Chessboard," or anything Paul Wolfowitz has ever said or written?  They aren't keeping it secret.  They view the US as the rightful dominant global power, with the sacred duty of eliminating any possible rival to US dominance.  Who might be potential, or even hypothetically possible, rivals?  I can only think of China, Russia, and the EU (F*ck them, by the way, as a noted Brzezinsk/Wolfowitz acolyte once said).

Look, the point isn't to win militarily.  The point is to maintain bloody chaos at all costs.  To ring-fence China, Russia and the EU with fire.  The beauty of it is, winning wars is hard as the US has shown over the past 70 years.  So adopt a strategy where winning doesn't matter; the carnage, upheaval and insecurity is the objective.  The US can send in force to open or close any supply routes it chooses, at any time.  That's a lot of leverage.  When a country like Turkey dares to vent off some of the pressure on Russia and Europe by allowing an alternative to gas pipelines traversing the dumpster fire Ukraine has become, that suggests mysterious and gruesome developments in Turkey's near future, doesn't it?

US policy isn't suicidal.  It isn't failing.  It's working brilliantly, because what we think of as "success" and "failure" are irrelevant to the strategy.

Sure, maybe I'm paranoid and cynical.  But damn, it's hard to keep up these days.  Empires in decline are prone to huge, overcommitted and desperate rolls of the dice.  It's really hard, and unpalatable, to let one's mind warp enough to comprehend what the mandarins  of Empire are thinking in such times.  So one has to consider what they say, not believe it, and when possible, examine the white parts of the page instead of the text.  A decent atlas is a good place to start.

swmnguy's picture

Just one measly down-arrow?  No rebuttal?  Somebody prefers their narratives tidy.

Latina Lover's picture

Gave you an up arrow not because I agree but because you at least gave us some thoughtful content.   Personally, I believe that the Ukraine was the fulcrum for the USSA to take down Russia to steal her resources. Then China would be next.

  Fortunately, with the reunion of Crimea with Russia and Donbass army, the USSA hit a huge impasse, and has managed to radicalize russians against the west. Putin now has carte blanc to crush american NGO's and slowly eliminate the russian atlanticist fifth column. Moreover, the neocons s have done an excellent job of driving russia into China's sphere of influence, uniting the 2 most powerful nations in Asia.  Job well done, LOL!

swmnguy's picture

Not asking anyone to agree.

I can agree with your view without necessarily negating my hypothesis.  I don't think the "USSA" intends to invade Russia to steal the resources, nor China, by main force.  It would be by creating bloody havoc all around Russia, adding huge stresses to Russia's economic, military, political and social systems.  The intent would be for Russia to weaken to the point that a "color revolution" or similarly tarted-up coup could either break Russia up into smaller, more easily-manipulated parts, or to impose a neo-liberal/conservative-friendly puppet regime that would allow Russia to be looted.  Again, as Yeltsin did so well before his pickled corpse gave out.

I agree on the actual effects of the Ukraine gambit so far, but it's early yet.  Syria has been demanding Russia's attention.  Now Ukraine.  Next maybe Turkey?  Or one of the -stan countries suddenly gets a Sunni extremist insurgency that hadn't ever been there before?  It's the "death by a thousand cuts."  Brzezinski thinks he's done it before to Russia, with Afghanistan in the '70s.  This time is for all the marbles.  Or maybe something happens to Belarus, jeopardizing other pipelines transporting gas from Russia to Europe.  The Uighurs seem like promising candidates to suddenly get a lot of money and new gear.

As I'm seeing it, the strategy has the aims you describe, but it doesn't require any military success to work.  Just out-of-control chaos, which the USSA is pretty good at manufacturing and distributing.  That strategy would continue even if Russia and China were to officially merge.  Then the strategy would focus on picking at dissimilarities between Russian and Chinese local interests.  

ebear's picture

"Empires in decline are prone to huge, overcommitted and desperate rolls of the dice."

An Atlas is useful, but a study of history will take you further.  There have been many empires in the past, and they all went the same way.  This one is no different, it just seems that way because we're living through it rather than seeing it in the rear view mirror.

Good take though.  When you can't win, just tip the game board over and scatter the pieces.  Do that enough times though, and no one will want to play with you.  I think we're close to that point, if we haven't already passed it.

swmnguy's picture

I don't think the people benefitting the most today from Empire care if anyone wants to play in the future.  They're looking to defend and consolidate their winnings right now.  Every moment they can buy helps them in their aim.  And of course there are some self-delusional nuts who think they can fix it and save it all with just the right clever strategy.  I don't think so, but once they get ideas like that they become even more dangerous.  There were those in France who wanted to nuke Vietnam and Algeria to wreck their Empire if they couldn't keep it.  They didn't, but it's not like some wouldn't have done it.

I really do think the idea in Washington is to get everybody else to fight amongst themselves, once again leaving the US as the "cleanest dirty shirt" left standing.  Energy, immigration, religious divides, internal cultural divisions and the like are all good fracture points to pick at and we're plenty good at that.

rsnoble's picture

It would be funny seeing that others are shutting out the US bully if it weren't for the fact the US can blow up the planet 10,000x and has crazy people at the helm.

I still think this goes back to the events leading up to 2008 and up to now.  The US is bk and intends on stealing and conquering the rest of the world in order to survive.  There are(were?) other ways to go about this but they have a playbook they like to go by.

Republi-Ken's picture

MARTENSON IS A FOOL.

UKRAINE IS ABOUT A SINGLE "MACRO" PRINCIPLE...

NATIONS DO NOT TAKE TERRITORY OR VIOLATE NATIONAL BORDERS.

THIS RULE OF THE WORLD IMPOSED BY US MILITARY POWER AFTER WWII

IS DESIGNED TO STOP FUTURE WORLD WARS.

EUROPE IS UNITED BEHIND THAT SAME PRINCIPLE.

TACTICS ARE NOT PRINCIPLE. TACTICS ALWAYS SHIFT.

DYLER TURDEN AND MARTENSON DONT KNOW THE DIFFERENCE.

CUZ DEY IS DUMB AZZ LIBERTARIANS WHO THINK WITH IDEOLOGY. NOT FACTS.

 

HowdyDoody's picture

Just a friendly tip - your argument would have been improved greatly if you had used 'bold all caps' throughout.