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Greek Government "Not Holding Out Much Hope" For Monday Even As Market Signals Deal Imminent

Tyler Durden's picture




 

With Greek money, deposits and time all running out ahead of Monday's key Eurogroup meeting, which in turn also marks the end of the Jeroen Dijsselbloem 10 Day ultimatum granted to Greece by which the impoverished nation should agree to extend its current bailout program, the political rhetoric has hit a crescendo, and so has the bluffing by every side as the cards are all about to be revealed. Case in point Greece, which on one hand is signalling that a deal is imminent and is willing to do
"whatever it can" to reach
it, and on the other, its government is posturing that a deal is not likely to come tomorrow.

According to Kathimerini, late last night, Greek PM Tsipras chaired a meeting of his cabinet on Friday night to brief ministers on the state of talks with the eurozone. "With the possibility of the government having to make a compromise with the eurozone over the way forward in the next few days, Tsipras was eager to assess the mood of his cabinet. Some members, such as Energy Minister Panayiotis Lafazanis have been adamant that the government should stick to its pre-election pledges."

Which probably suggests that Greece is if not about to fold, then certainly cave on most, if not all, of its demands.

Still, Greece is hopeful that some deus ex machina will appear in the last minute, and that delaying the inevitable will give it some further leverage. Which explains why, as Kathimerini reported, "the government is not holding out much hope for a solution in Brussels on Monday. There have been some positive steps but there is a lot of ground that has to be covered, said a government source.

Sources cited also insist that the Greek government would not be willing to back down from its position on certain issues such as labor regulations, privatizations and the lowering of the primary surplus target. Athens believes that the two sides can find common ground on issues like public administration reform, improving tax collection and tackling corruption.

“Greeks should understand that this is a critical and difficult negotiation, the pressure is enormous,” said government spokesman Gavriil Sakellaridis. “We will do whatever we can so that a deal is found on Monday,” he told Skai TV. “If we don’t have an agreement on Monday, we believe that there is always time so that there won’t be a problem.”

Alas, time will be a problem, as time is the only variable that will accelerate the culmination of the Greek game theory outcome, which has been explained on many occasions previously, and here by way of the FT, is merely the latest recap of how the Greek negotiations look like, if only in theory:

[W]hat kind of game are Mr Varoufakis and his eurozone colleagues playing? 

 

“The simplest way of thinking about it is a game of chicken,” says George Tsebelis, a professor of political science at the University of Michigan. The two sides resemble drivers heading for a single lane bridge from opposite directions. Each knows that if they swerve first, they will concede the bridge to the opponent. However, if neither swerves, the result will be a collision, and each hopes to intimidate the other by refusing to swerve. “In these scenarios, each side has an incentive to show he means business,” Mr Tsebelis says.

 

This might explain why Alexis Tsipras, Greece’s prime minister, says he cannot accept a compromise that includes an extension of the existing rescue programme as it would go against the mandate he has received from Greek voters. In a way, he is trying to signal to his European colleagues that he cannot swerve.

 

These games typically involve each player trying to influence the final outcome until the very end, when one gives way. But game theorists warn that in real life, the end game may be one in which neither side concedes.

 

This could happen if each party has committed so much to its uncompromising position, that it becomes impossible for it to change it. The new Syriza-led government is struggling to end its confrontation with the country’s international creditors

 

Alternatively, players may face extreme uncertainty over the costs of different outcomes. “Objectively, in this case, the pay-offs are not clear,” says Mr Tsebelis. Even within the eurozone, he says, governments might have different views over the exact cost of a “Grexit”.

 

Game theory also offers insights into why eurozone politicians may be forced to punish Greece even though they know this option would be painful for their own countries.

 

Germany and other creditor states have an incentive to threaten Greece by saying that if Athens reneges on its debt, it will be forced out of the euro. In theory, this intimidation is not credible. A “Grexit” would be damaging for all countries in the currency bloc, so even if Greece were to default, it could be expected that other member states would not want to eject Athens.

 

However, opting for forgiveness risks creating dangerous incentives for other countries to act in the same way as Athens. “Germany may decide that if the eurozone does not punish Greece, it will have problems with other countries such as Spain and Italy,” says Roger Myerson, a Nobel-winning economist at the University of Chicago.

Like we said, "in theory." In practice, with Greek deposit outflows said to have hit €1 billion per day, the biggest Greek leverage, one which is amortizing at an ever faster pace - time - may just run out.

Which is also why, as the Guardian reports, not only did Greek risk assets, but the S&P 500 itself, surge on Fruday (with the S&P closing at a new record high, just shy of Goldman's year end price target).

Greek stock markets have rallied on growing confidence that Athens will reach a deal with its international creditors next week.

 

In the runup to a meeting of eurozone finance ministers on Monday, the new Greek prime minister’s office vowed to do “whatever we can” to come to an agreement over a new support programme for the bailed-out country... On Friday, the new prime minister, Alexis Tsipras, appeared to soften his stance. He agreed that Greek officials would meet representatives of the troika of lenders who supplied the bailout money and imposed and policed the terms that came with it. Previously, Greece’s finance minister, Yanis Varoufakis, said the new government would refuse to engage with representatives of troika, made up of the European Central Bank, the European commission and the International Monetary Fund.

But what if the Troika is called something else? Because increasingly it appears that the only "concessions" Europe will make is to extend the maturity of Greek debt, which is completely irrelvant for a nation that can never repay its debt anyway, although if Varoufakis can call that a "haircut", so be it. That, and replacing the name of the Troika to "The Institutions", something Spiegel mocks as a "symbolic victory."

Unfortunately for Greece, "symbolic" is the only victory it will achieve if in 48 hours it is not prepared to truly exit the Eurozone, an outcome which at least the roaring global stock markets have already decided is not going to happen.

As for what's left of the Greek population, it will simply have to satisfy itself with making angry posters, because as long as it remains in the Eurozone the only thing it has to look forward to is seeing even more of what little Greek wealth remains, transferred over to those who call the shots and print the paper money.

 

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Sat, 02/14/2015 - 12:50 | 5784353 Arius
Arius's picture

Disselbloom doesnt have much hopi either ... hope and change

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 12:55 | 5784363 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

"Hold...hold.....HOLD." - William Wallace. Of course we know what happened to William Wallace.

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 13:34 | 5784435 Wolferl
Wolferl's picture

Hey, why not just rename Greece to "Southern-Russia" or "Western-Turkey". And make the Russians and/or the Turks pay for that rat-hole.

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 13:55 | 5784493 agent default
agent default's picture

No way. Russia will definitely go to war over this one.

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 14:58 | 5784626 flacon
flacon's picture

I can't wait for the "It-will-all-work-itself-out" crowd to get a punched in the face. Hopefully Tuesday morning SPY will gap down 5%. 

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 15:35 | 5784720 HenryHall
HenryHall's picture

There is no formal mechanism to eject from Eurozone, only a mechanism to cut off funding.

The Greek goverment can abolish all regulation of foreign money trading and allow contracts in any foreign currency, including Euros. Then start paying pensions from Post Offices in Russian or Turkish money. Combine with a moratorium on evictions and the ordinary Greek people will get by.

No need to introduce a new Drachma, just allow the use of anyone's currency.

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 15:46 | 5784753 flacon
flacon's picture

I think Greeks hate Turks more than they hate Germans. That would be very ironic if they could stomach the Turkish Lira. 

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 17:20 | 5784981 Wolferl
Wolferl's picture

As matter of fact, Greeks hate themselves most. And they are not able to admit it.

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 16:29 | 5784857 prospero matthews
prospero matthews's picture

HenryHall- I think that GMN wrote a law regarding an exit path from the EU 2-3 years ago during the "GRC crisis" then.  But it was some savvy ZH article people who suggested that the exit path GMN was putting together was not for GRC, but for GMN.  I think that is in the cards for both....ultimately.  What I find strange is that is has not been given any ZH attention this time around.  If you have any pull with Mr. Durden perhaps you could mention it.

All the Best.

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 16:40 | 5784888 Augustus
Augustus's picture

Is there any limit on holding different currencies now?

If the Government of Greece did decide to pay pensions in some currency other than Euro, which country with acceptable currency would let the Greeks use their printing press?  Zimbabwemay have some left unused as the paper costs more than the currency is worth.

The problem is that the Greek Govt has nothing of value to use to make payments with.

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 17:58 | 5785061 wintermute
wintermute's picture

Greece has 112 tonnes of gold.

It could issue a gold-backed new drachma, computed as 1 ND = (112 tonnes gold / Greek M4)

Repudiate all external debt,.

The gold-drachma will float with the gold price as it is redeemable by anyone. It will rapidly become stable. The government can run balanced budgets. Business and individuals have sound money.

Smooth sailing ahead.

Sun, 02/15/2015 - 05:21 | 5786359 SoDamnMad
SoDamnMad's picture

Wintermute

They HAD 112 tons of gold. It was used as ballast in one of the submarines Greece bought from Germany.  Greece still owed a billion for the purchase so one of the submarines was returned and you know which one that was. "And that is the rest of the story" PH

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 14:03 | 5784513 new game
new game's picture

does anyone know when greece has to call 1800-gravy train? as in out of money to operate the government.

that imo is the last day to poster for a freebee. at that point in time things go down the shitter if no bend over agreement is struck OR they defect to an outcome of anarchy til a white knight rides or sails to athens...

also wondering if the econ hitmen have arrived? calling j perkins for advice,ha...

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 14:15 | 5784544 Wolferl
Wolferl's picture

Actually i have the feeling the Greek econ hitman has the name Varoufakis. He´s in bed with the ruling Greek-American elite like G-Pap since decades.

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 15:56 | 5784792 Carpenter1
Carpenter1's picture

These guys have Russia and China offering to back them financially and Obummer offering at least symbolic support, and they're still afraid of the EU?

 

Fucken cowards

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 16:43 | 5784895 Augustus
Augustus's picture

No one has information on what the terms of a Russian or Chinese deal could be.

The Trioka has agreed to "back them financially" as well.  Greece just does not like the terms.

Anyone expecting that either Russia or China are going to just do a helicopter drop of billions in liquidity as a gift is a moron.

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 16:56 | 5784929 elegance
elegance's picture

Lol, you just called 95% of Zerohedge commenters morons... And you are right in that assesment cause they really think that would happen.

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 14:12 | 5784535 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

After these leftists get thrown out.  Greece should elect some libertarians,  become a tax haven and tell the Marxist EU to fuck off.

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 14:27 | 5784565 new game
new game's picture

not before a whole lot a hate spills out of the boiling cauldron of societies ills from a century of entitlement.

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 15:02 | 5784635 AustrianJim
AustrianJim's picture

Wouldn't that be something?

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 18:54 | 5785241 Reptil
Reptil's picture

It's slightly more complicated than that. To put it mildly.

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 13:36 | 5784437 garypaul
garypaul's picture

QUESTION: Many of these loans were brokered by groups like JPM, GS, etc. Why doesn't the Greek government just declare the loans legally void because they involved a criminal organization? (God knows there is enough evidence on those big banks)

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 14:02 | 5784515 Vincent Vega
Vincent Vega's picture

Not sure that'll work but it's a nice thought.

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 14:25 | 5784558 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

It would be nice if they called out those drug money laundering public treasury robbing Corzine abetting jackals.

Tsipras may just be meeting with the Eurogroup and saying there might be a deal to buy time while behind the scenes telling the Greek people to buy Gold and Silver and preparing the Drachma.

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 18:55 | 5785246 Reptil
Reptil's picture

Because the EU Court is on the side of Goldman Sachs.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-11-29/goldman-wins-again-european-uni...

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 12:50 | 5784354 Miss Expectations
Miss Expectations's picture

Sorry for interrupting...but here's another Hitler Parody, this one taking down Brian Williams:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Fu6uBHl0hE

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 12:58 | 5784361 Arius
Arius's picture

thats funny ... wonder what is happening to brian williams team .. that guy obviously was a scambag, but what about his team since he never traveled alone, they knew all his lies ...

how can NBC not even investigate it? 

 

what about watching his daughter act as a porn star?  and this guy is the face of news for the country?

 

http://www.thesuperficial.com/allison-williams-ass-eating-scene-girls-le...

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 12:58 | 5784369 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Lol. You think they are actually seeking "truth" here? Their first objective is the rehab of Brian Williams.

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 13:04 | 5784381 Arius
Arius's picture

at least they got to keep up appearances ... it is stupid to keep this guy and his team if they care about audience .... who is going to watch them?

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 13:15 | 5784399 DeadFred
DeadFred's picture

Every braindead fool who has watching them so far will continue watching them. With a attention span of about five seconds the public will forget about this in no time.

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 15:44 | 5784590 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

I heard NBC will be giving, Al "No lies" Sharpton, Williams' time slot.

Sun, 02/15/2015 - 00:28 | 5786087 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

You mean Al "FBI-informant" Sharpton?

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 14:23 | 5784532 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

"... it is stupid to keep this guy and his team if they care about audience .... who is going to watch them?"

You would think so. But we are talking about the effect of prior investment, both for NBC who has invested 10+ years into the Brain Williams 'brand' and the audience, who has done the same thing.

Most people would rather forgive him and be able to return to the comfort of a familiar and 'trusted' news reader repeater than start all over again.

Just as employee turnover is expensive to the employer and precisely why many will keep a sub par employee on long past the point they should be fired, so too with the NBC audience, for whom it would be emotionally expensive to start all over again with a new and 'trusted' news 'anchor'.

This is precisely why they suspended him rather than fire him. Plan 'A' is rehab. Rest assured there is a plan B and C in the wings. After 6 months they will begin the rehab by bringing him back on 'special assignment' and within a year he will be back on the desk.

During the first few months of the six month suspension Brian will lay low. Then he will begin speaking publicly on interviews and profusely apologize with no excuses given other than to say he was stupid and careless and human. This is a tried and true script.

Insanity and logic cannot be used in the same sentence, let along paragraph.

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 14:33 | 5784575 new game
new game's picture

and don't forget he looked the look, so polished and honest. i mean he is mericans news idol.

i want to puke up all my cog dis from the last 40 years and see it land on his front exposure...

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 14:42 | 5784596 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

:) I started to google NBC lied and it suggested, Zimmerman, Romney tapes.

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 14:45 | 5784603 new game
new game's picture

curious how many matches, ha, oh what a fucking joke...

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 14:50 | 5784609 new game
new game's picture

reality for me has become a walk in the woods and sitting for at least an hour with nothing but non-human activity. i mean not even an airplane flying over...what can i say anymoar, i want to check out. throw every fucking gps trackable device away and disconnect. just south of the boundry waters and howl like a wolf til one comes by and have an intelligent conversation...

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 14:58 | 5784625 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

Don't fret, times are changing and the perception managers are losing control.  Soon the masked totalitarians will have to show their face by trying to ban information on the web.

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 13:14 | 5784397 roadhazard
roadhazard's picture

Brian Williams = the first person to pay for lying about Iraq. Whats funny is FOX Nooze hanging on Geraldo's every word while dunning Williams. 

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 16:46 | 5784904 Augustus
Augustus's picture

Don't think I have interest in that "eat shit and die" move.  The fellow must have received an education is a NYC bath house.

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 13:30 | 5784424 DeadFred
DeadFred's picture

I'm no financial/political wizard but I'm can't see a reason why Russia at this point wouldn't be telling Greece to run through all the steps then just repudiate the debt and take a new credit line from them, with or without China. The reason why countries don't default is because it cuts them off from future funding. For a really small amount of money the Russia/China team could precipitate a crisis that could do grave damage to the West's Ponzi finance system. What would do they risk, more sanctions?

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 13:40 | 5784450 nevadan
nevadan's picture

Agree completely.  Greece has a huge trump card imo.  Russia wins bigtime also.  They need Greek agricultural output and another warm water naval port is just the icing on the cake.  Talk about shaking up NATO!  Advantage Greece in EU negotiations.

Sun, 02/15/2015 - 05:31 | 5786370 SoDamnMad
SoDamnMad's picture

Nevadan

But what about Turkey is Russia resuscitates Greece.  Turkey wants that gas pipeline and the Russian support of a dictatorial government.

But will they be able to get over having their sworn enemy under the other wing of their parent?

Mon, 02/16/2015 - 09:38 | 5789549 nevadan
nevadan's picture

Projected routes for the new pipeline I have seen include both Turkey and Greece so that seems to be a non issue.  Perhaps the "parent" will be able to instill a little discipline between her unruly siblings.

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 12:52 | 5784357 Sanity Bear
Sanity Bear's picture

If I have this down correctly, we should see a massive pop with leaked news of a deal, only to be kicked in the balls when the real news of no deal comes in at the end of the day.

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 13:06 | 5784385 brooklynlou
brooklynlou's picture

Sounds about right ...

Funny story. Went to my local Greek store to buy bread. Asked the owner if he takes Drachmas. Without missing a beat he goes " Yes, starting March 1st. I hope you saved your old ones"

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 16:23 | 5784848 Chupacabra-322
Chupacabra-322's picture

Two Greeks, a Russin & a Chinaman walk into a bar....

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 12:53 | 5784359 Payne
Payne's picture

Do not exit until your banks are broke and need a bailout.  EU will only offer Haircuts to the banks,  eventually you will default on debt and exit Euro.  

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 12:59 | 5784370 kwatinhu
kwatinhu's picture

You can feel the Syriza stance softening as often happens when campaign rubber meets governing road, but hopefully Greek pride will at least sting the banksters imprudent pride a little. They do have the spirit of liberty on their side regardless of the mess their elite has gotten them into. Lots of false flags and blocked hallways in this maze. Good luck to the Greek people who have to endure this burden.

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 16:50 | 5784913 Augustus
Augustus's picture

The result of all of the trauma from Tsipras is that bank and private lenders will not take Greek debt or buy the bonds.  There are other borrowers who will repay so why ever screw with the Greeks again?

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 13:00 | 5784374 Racer
Racer's picture

Symbolic?

Shambolic more like, if that is all they agree to... a name change FFS

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 13:03 | 5784380 Fix It Again Timmy
Fix It Again Timmy's picture

I can't really remember when any government successfully solved a major problem; for an entire plethora of reasons this very necessary trait is sorely lacking...

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 13:13 | 5784394 The Duke of New...
The Duke of New York A No.1's picture

#PrintDrachmasEndEuroDebtSlavery

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 19:44 | 5785421 LetsGetPhysical
LetsGetPhysical's picture

#PrintDrachmaStartHyperInflation

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 22:36 | 5785870 The Duke of New...
The Duke of New York A No.1's picture

#PrintDrachmasGreekTourismIndustryBooms

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 13:15 | 5784396 yogibear
yogibear's picture

"Minister Panayiotis Lafazanis have been adamant that the government should stick to its pre-election pledges."

Oh, the drama!"

A Greek play.

Year 6  act 1 (Tsipras)

Coalition of the Radical Left will fold like a bunch of cheap suits. So much for being radical.

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 13:16 | 5784401 cornfritter
cornfritter's picture

"Welcome aboard!  Christine and I have been petitioning to get some daring, young handsome fellows in here.  We'll have have housekeeping change out the oils in your new home away from home.  Reproductions, but they are quite good! If you are a good boy, we'll go look at the real ones down in the basement :-)"

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 13:20 | 5784403 Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

IF there is a deal, some kind of deal. I assure you it will not solve the Greek economic problem or it's bankruptcy. The EU wants a deal to avoid admitting and accepting the losses of a bankrupt Greece. At all costs, some papering over, extend and pretend must be made. But this is just what the Greek government says they are sick of. Another deal to cover up facts, another extension of Greek bankruptcy.

The EU is desperate to avoid BOOKING THE LOSSES, the losses that are real, but they refuse to acknowledge, because banks would go under if losses were booked.

Shit, we all know the whole world is now run this way. Big investors and banks book all their gains and take the money as profits. They do not book their losses, those they can't put on public balance sheets, they use financial engineering and the Fed to hide sonewhere in the system to prevent being booked and accepted.

It is a Banker paradise. Book the winnings, slip the losses off the books and into a Fed generated Limbo. The EU is the same game.

Greece is a bankrput entity, will never repay 300 + billion Euros. The EU can't deal with this loss, or the spread of loss booking to include Spain, 1 trillion. Portugal is off the radar, but look at it, worse than ever! Italy is a slowing sinking rust bucket, nobody want to acknowledge their growing insolvency.

The European Union of Soviet Socialist Republics is an entity based on a lie, the lie of solvency. The lie of growth potential to pay off debts. Only by robust growth can debts be serviced.

I ask everyone, tell me where European growth will come form? Which nation will break out into robust economic growth? What new industries will employ the tens of millions unemployed. How will a falling wage economy stimulate spending and housing? NO WAY!

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 16:36 | 5784871 Chupacabra-322
Chupacabra-322's picture

Answer:

No one will.

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 17:56 | 5785068 geno-econ
geno-econ's picture

Of course Greek Fin. Mins. says Germany should have recycled surpluses into other EU nations, but too late now.  In a sense Germany did recycle some, with other EU nations contributing as well but with printed debt that went into social programs that yielded no return.  Only area of possible growth is investment in  Ukraine recovery but same EU financial model would lead to same results. Russia also would not stand by for strategic reasons. Unfortunatly, war is still a growth industry, especially in US  and it seems we are heading in that direction ala Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya, Ukraine, etc. Problem is these wars are financed with debt that can never be repayed making the US another Greece

 

Sun, 02/15/2015 - 00:38 | 5786106 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

So, you're discounting Islamic Prayer rugs as a growth industry in the EU?  Spiderman Towelz it is then! :>D

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 13:22 | 5784411 rsnoble
rsnoble's picture

Oh of course the precious markets signal a deal.

I place odds in favor of this being like an earnings report.  You know, a run up into earnings because everyone just knows there's going to be a huge beat and then they shit all over everyone.

And it would really be a non-event for now.  What?  Say the US markets dump 400pts on tbe DOW from these levels.  Whoopee.  When/if the bear market starts will be the signal they've lost it because they won't let it happen until they are no longer able to keep this mess of shit propped up.

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 13:28 | 5784422 Arius
Arius's picture

i have a feeling smt is wrapping up ...

there wont be any deal at least for 2-3 days ...

ukraine is exploding again even they say there is a deal ...

netanyahu will have a speech which is highly debated (biden not attending it)...

i woould guess there will be a rise a volatility before the tide goes down again in couple of months to come up again ... and so on...

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 14:43 | 5784597 new game
new game's picture

the cauldron of financial bullshit is ozzing over the edge...

 

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 13:22 | 5784413 Jack Daniels Esq
Jack Daniels Esq's picture

Besides Puffpost, nobody cares about Greece

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 13:25 | 5784416 Fix-ItSilly
Fix-ItSilly's picture

The Ez needs to throw in some meaty bones.  Or the next negotiators may be Golden Dawn.

Germany should know this historical lesson well.  The outcome of the Dawes Plan and Young Plan set the table for...

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 13:39 | 5784448 Wolferl
Wolferl's picture

Historical lesson learned. Since the Greeks are underachievers in any way, it doesn´t matter if they have a Nazi government.

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 17:15 | 5784970 Augustus
Augustus's picture

Maybe the Greeks can resurect that fellow who did such a good job running Albania, the workers' paradise.

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 13:25 | 5784418 Boondocker
Boondocker's picture

More useless drama...plenty more can kicking ahead

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 14:18 | 5784554 UselessEater
UselessEater's picture

plus the global governance dream cannot lose the EU crown jewel...not sure all is as it seems, suspecting a charade is being played out

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 13:30 | 5784423 NubianSundance
NubianSundance's picture

Greece has to sound positive in preparation for the oncoming blame game when default occurs, as is inevitable.

It is written in the holy book of central banks chap. 4 verse 2 ' and lo, Greece defaulted and there was great tribulation across Europe, as the nations taxpayers had to pay the debt which caused fresh elections and new radical parties and the downfall of the euro.'

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 21:10 | 5785680 Clowns on Acid
Clowns on Acid's picture

.......... "As all Euro countries headed for the Grexit".

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 13:38 | 5784436 Philby MI6
Philby MI6's picture

[Euro Finance Ministers Meeting] The German delegation were incensed that Mr Varoufakis had shown up to the meeting with no written set of proposals on how Greece would like to modify the country’s austerity programme. Apparently, in response Mr Varoufakis quietly asked for a pencil and piece of paper on which he wrote “GREECE DEBT PLAN - WE’RE NOT PAYING!” then handed it to the German delegation. Personally I think the Germans were asking for too much from the Greeks, after all, their financial plan 2000-2009 could have similarly being written on a small piece of paper “GREECE FINANCIAL PLAN 1.CON OUR WAY INTO THE EURO 2.BORROW AND SPEND LIKE CRAZY 3.HIDE THE DEBT PILE 4.BORROW AND SPEND LIKE CRAZY 5.WHEN BUSTED PLAY THE VICTIM AND REFUSE TO REPAY”

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 13:37 | 5784442 Monetas
Monetas's picture

Juan Williams .... Brian Williams .... starting to see a pattern .... yet ?

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 13:39 | 5784447 Catalonia
Catalonia's picture

When it all blows up Greeks will still have the cheese, the olives and the fish.

 

Germany will have 100 trillions in derivatives.

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 17:19 | 5784977 Augustus
Augustus's picture

If the Greeks had been happy with only their own cheese, olives and fish they would not now have a problem.

Hard to run a healthcare or transport system with only those inputs.

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 13:47 | 5784468 trader1
trader1's picture

"Greece is hopeful that some deus ex machina will appear in the last minute"

No, we're waiting for the return of Aurora ex Machina

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 13:59 | 5784504 Byte Me
Byte Me's picture

We're having roast goose next Sunday.

Was going to use an old Swedish recipe, but now I need to look up the Greek method. It's obviously sooo much more "betterer".

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 14:32 | 5784573 El Hosel
El Hosel's picture

Goose Recipe....Find a rock about the same size as the goose, pre heat oven to 350.  Place the Rock and the Goose in the oven, cook until the rock is tender.

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 15:47 | 5784758 R19
R19's picture

Do you smell what The Rock is cooking?

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 14:11 | 5784534 Joebloinvestor
Joebloinvestor's picture

If Greece doesn't reach a deal they can always have another election.

That seems to punt the can for a few weeks.

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 14:22 | 5784563 VWAndy
VWAndy's picture

Why is it nobody in any government can do the job right? FFS just blame it on the previous leaders. Have a legal court order placing the debts on the former gov clowns. Then tell the bankers go get it from them. Cut spending and send most of the gov workers home. Stiff the pensioners and cut off the dole. Nationalize all the multi nationals operating in house. Leave small mom and pops alone for one fucking second and watch as they lead the country out of this shitshow.

 Start with a coin backed by an actual real organic product like cheese or booze by quantity. Zero inflation and real savings will be paying real returns. This magic money aint magic its theft. Treat it as such.

 

 

 

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 20:18 | 5785510 bluskyes
bluskyes's picture

Maybe the EU will sell the debt to Blackwater for $0.30 on the dollar.

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 16:14 | 5784829 safe as milk
safe as milk's picture

oh, just grexit already, jeez!

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 16:14 | 5784830 geno-econ
geno-econ's picture

Most are wondering and speculating what the Greek PM and Fin. Min will do as well as other players in this tragedy.  The real question is how will the Greek people react to any agreement.  So look at the record of results of US/EU initiatives

Iraq-----civil war/ISIS

Afghanistan----civil war

Syria-----civil war/ISIS

Libya------tribal war

Ukraine----civil war

Greece-----???? Spain, Portugal, Italy, etc.????

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 16:51 | 5784914 R19
R19's picture

What letter grade can we give Zero and his administration on foreign policy?  I will give a little and give an F+.

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 17:48 | 5785044 Augustus
Augustus's picture

Removing a totalitarian government is not a smooth process.  That is not news.

It seems that there are many on ZH who support the totalitarian rulers.  Currently the Puutie lovers are most active in promoting it.

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 18:18 | 5785126 dreadnaught
dreadnaught's picture

Trouble is-IF you had graduated from High School-and did a lot of investigative reading, you would know a little of what is being spoken of here and what is going on in the world. You libs are dumber than hell

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 16:46 | 5784903 Bazza McKenzie
Bazza McKenzie's picture

ZH seems to be misinterpreting the statement the Greek government "is willing to do whatever it can".  They didn't say "whatever it takes".  When people say they'll do "whatever they can", it frequently means not very much.

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 16:57 | 5784932 thamnosma
thamnosma's picture

Si se puede!

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 18:16 | 5785117 dreadnaught
dreadnaught's picture

'whatever it takes' can mean what it says-and can also be a LIE

'whatever it can' is more like 'we cant or wont do much'

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 19:06 | 5785280 El Hosel
El Hosel's picture

Let see if the new Boss in Greece can be bought just like the old boss. If the new boss won't join the club its going to get interesting, don't get fooled again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjA_RtsBfAo

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 16:57 | 5784930 thamnosma
thamnosma's picture

Default and leave the Euro.  Any other resolution just delays the former.

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 17:43 | 5785031 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

Greece should use its last 5-10 billion to put in simultaneous orders for physical silver. In ths way it will have a currency of its own, it will probably shhot in price and will cause a great deal of turmoil in what is a rigged market.

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 17:50 | 5785052 Augustus
Augustus's picture

Even 20 Billion in silver would not last two minutes if some phoney Greek currency was exchangeable for the metal.

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 18:06 | 5785079 BlackSwanOil
BlackSwanOil's picture

I am for the Greece people.  The Banks and the Government need to grow up and accept reality.  It gonna break sooner or later.  Lots are going to get hurt.

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 18:15 | 5785105 Lea
Lea's picture

In-Fucking-Credible. These guys have locked the door to their own prison cell and thrown away the key. How could they hope to get out?

With the UE, darlings, the only way is the way out. If you haven't figured that out by now...

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 18:40 | 5785202 saulysw
saulysw's picture

The EU is like hotel California - you can check out any time you like, but you can never leave.

To me it comes down to a question of remaining sovereignty - who has control over Greece - the Greeks or the EU beurocrats and bankers?

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 18:43 | 5785214 Firewood
Firewood's picture

"Unfortunately for Greece, "symbolic" is the only victory it will achieve if in 48 hours it is not prepared to truly exit the Eurozone, an outcome which at least the roaring global stock markets have already decided is not going to happen."

Ironic for the anglozionazi banksters that their Third World Fourth Reich NWO be rejected by the founding fathers of democracy as plundered Greece pivots East and the other NWO.

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 18:59 | 5785259 El Hosel
El Hosel's picture

Turn off the lights and light up a fart, watch the roaring global stock markets go green a soon as the news of your burnt ass hair hits the wire.

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 20:39 | 5785589 Brazen Heist
Brazen Heist's picture

Why the fuck is it this hard to simply default?

The fact that it is such difficult thing to do indicates what a cultish trap the Euro has become.

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 22:37 | 5785871 Vinividivinci
Vinividivinci's picture

How's this for a crazy theory :

Greece sticks it the Euronazis
Eurocesspool Union crashes
Hence, global markets crash
Hence, the American Fiat dollar implodes (or explodes, whatever)
Obama activiates EO 13603
The End.

Sat, 02/14/2015 - 23:52 | 5786021 VWAndy
VWAndy's picture

Tanks in the streets an shit?

Sun, 02/15/2015 - 06:04 | 5786390 honestann
honestann's picture

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What's so complicated about that?

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Greece will do much better without EU masters.

And without all that debt they just shrugged off.

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Sun, 02/15/2015 - 11:17 | 5786707 Sandmann
Sandmann's picture

how do you default if your debts are being serviced through agencies outside your control.....? Greece does not see the money it is simply allocated as a recurring charge

Mon, 02/16/2015 - 04:41 | 5789245 honestann
honestann's picture

You just announce... officially... "we will never pay, period".  Then if accountants want to write numbers on pieces of paper and pretend those numbers have something to do with Greece, they can do so.  They can also create fictional ledgers for every other fictitious entity on the planet if that makes them jolly.

Sun, 02/15/2015 - 11:16 | 5786705 Sandmann
Sandmann's picture

The only other option is for Greece to charter buses and send millions of Greeks by bus to Austria and France and Italy where they can use their EU freedom of movement to claims benefits - better still go to Victoria Bus Station in London and claim housing and welfare

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