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The Minsk Peace Deal: Farce Or Sellout?
Submitted by Paul Craig Roberts,
Judging by the report on RT I conclude that the Ukraine peace deal worked out in Minsk by Putin, Merkel, Hollande, and Poroshenko has little chance of success.
As Washington is not a partner to the Minsk peace deal, how can there be peace when Washington has made policy decisions to escalate the conflict and to use the conflict as a proxy war between the US and Russia?
The Minsk agreement makes no reference to the announcement by Lt. Gen. Ben Hodges, commander of US Army Europe, that Washington is sending a battalion of US troops to Ukraine to train Ukrainian forces how to fight against Russian and rebel forces. The training is scheduled to begin in March, about two weeks from now. Gen. Hodges says that it is very important to recognize that the Donetsk and Luhansk forces “are not separatists, these are proxies for President Putin.”
How is there a peace deal when Washington has plans underway to send arms and training to the US puppet government in Kiev?
Looking at the deal itself, it is set up to fail. The only parties to the deal who had to sign it are the leaders of the Donetsk and Lugansk break-away republics. The other signers to the Minsk deal are an OSCE representative which is the European group that is supposed to monitor the withdrawal of heavy weapons by both sides, a former Ukrainian president Viktor Kuchma, and the Russian ambassador in Kiev. Neither the German chancellor nor the French, Ukrainian, and Russian presidents who brokered the deal had to sign it.
In other words, the governments of Germany, France, Ukraine, and Russia do not appear to be empowered or required to enforce the agreement. According to RT, “the declaration was not meant to be signed by the leaders, German foreign minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier said.”
The terms of the agreement depend on actions of the Ukrainian parliament and prime minister, neither of which are under Poroshenko’s control, and Poroshenko himself is a figurehead under Washington’s control. Moreover, the Ukrainian military does not control the Nazi militias. As Washington and the right-wing elements in Ukraine want conflict with Russia, peace cannot be forthcoming.
The agreement is nothing but a list of expectations that have no chance of occurring.
One expectation is that Ukraine and the republics will negotiate terms for future local elections in the provinces that will bring them back under Ukraine’s legal control. The day after the local elections, but prior to the constitutional reform that provides the regions with autonomy, Kiev takes control of the borders with Ukraine and between the provinces. I read this as the total sell-out of the Donetsk and Lugansk republics. Apparently, that is the way the leaders of the republics see it as well, as Putin had to twist their arms in order to get their signatures to the agreement.
Another expectation is that Ukraine will adopt legislation on self-governance that would be acceptable to the republics and declare a general amnesty for the republics’ leaders and military forces.
Negotiations between Kiev and the autonomous areas are to take place that restore Kiev’s taxation of the autonomous areas and the provision of social payments and banking services to the autonomous areas.
After a comprehensive constitutional reform in Ukraine guaranteeing acceptable (and undefined) autonomy to the republics, Kiev will take control over the provinces’ borders with Russia.
By the end of 2015 Kiev will implement comprehensive constitutional reform that decentralizes the Ukrainian political system and provides privileges of autonomy to the Donetsk and Lugansk regions.
Both Putin and Poroshenko are both reported as stating that the main thing achieved is a ceasefire starting on February 15.
The ceasefire is of no benefit to the Donetsk and Lugansk republics as they are prevailing in the conflict. Moreover, the deal requires the republics’ forces to give up territory and to pull back to the borders of last September and to eject fighters from France and other countries who have come to the aid of the break-away republics. In other words, the agreement erases all of Kiev’s losses from the conflict that Kiev initiated.
All of the risks of the agreement are imposed on the break-away republics and on Putin. The provinces are required to give up all their gains while Washington trains and arms Ukrainian forces to attack the provinces. The republics have to give up their security and trust Kiev long before Kiev votes, assuming it ever does, autonomy for the republics.
Moreover, if the one-sided terms of the Minsk agreement result in failure, Putin and the republics will be blamed.
Why would Putin make such a deal and force it on the republics? If the deal becomes a Russian sell-out of the republics, it will hurt Putin’s nationalist support within Russia and make it easier for Washington to weaken Putin and perhaps achieve regime change. It looks more like a surrender than a fair deal.
Perhaps Putin’s strategy is to give away every advantage in the expectation that the deal will fail, and the Russian government can say “we gave away the store and the deal still failed.”
Washington’s coup in Kiev and the attack on the Russian-speaking Ukrainians in the east and south is part of Washington’s strategy to reassert its uni-power position. Russia’s independent foreign policy and Russia’s growing economic and political relationships with Europe became problems for Washington. Washington is using Ukraine to attack and to demonize Russia and its leader and to break-up Russia’s economic and political relations with Europe. That is what the sanctions are about. A peace deal in Ukraine on any terms other than Washington’s is unacceptable to Washington. The only acceptable deal is a deal that is a defeat for Russia.
It is difficult to avoid the conclusion that the Russian government made a strategic mistake when it did not accept the requests of the break-away provinces to be united with Russia. The people in the Donetsk and Lugansk provinces favored unification with the same massive majorities that the people in Crimea showed. If the provinces had been united with Russia, it would have been the end of the conflict. Neither Ukraine nor Washington is going to attack Russian territory.
By failing to end the conflict by unification, Putin set himself up as the punching bag for Western propaganda. The consequence is that over the many months during which the conflict has been needlessly drawn out, Putin has had his image and reputation in the West destroyed. He is the “new Hitler.” He is “scheming to restore the Soviet Empire.” “Russia ranks with ebola and the Islamist State as the three greatest threats.” “RT is a terrorist organization like Boco Haram and the Islamist State.” And so on and on. This CNN interview with Obama conducted by Washington’s presstitute Fareed Zakaria shows the image of Putin based entirely on lies that rules in the West.
Putin could be no more demonized even if the Russian military had invaded Ukraine, conquered it, and reincorporated Ukraine in Russia of which Ukraine was part for centuries prior to the Soviet collapse and Ukraine’s separation from Russia at Washington’s insistence.
The Russian government might want to carefully consider whether Moscow is helping Washington to achieve another victory in Ukraine.
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Obama.... A leunatic.
Gays don't age well,
like that's his biggest problem.
Obama was not invited. This deal was about EU-Russian relations.
Imho they accepted that russia has to do the "nation rebuilding" work in Ukraine, but first they need to let the now ruling Maidan rebels look bad.
Ukraine right wing will never accept this: http://sputniknews.com/politics/20150212/1018155443.html
To Kiev!
China will respect the territorial integrity of Ukraine!
All of Ukraine will be liberated from the fascists.
Its still possible that Merkel and Hollande they try to f*ck Putin, but i dont think they will risk this.
This article is a very poor, third class analysis. I am far from gloryfying Putin, but this article assumes that this man is just a stupid moron. What he definitely is not. Minsk II is just another diplomatic battle in a protracted war (economic, political, military) that is far from over. The key to understand Putin's move is to think in the long term. The deal he (and the novorussians) agreed on is bound to fall apart right there in Kiev. While the West will certainly blame any failure to implement Minsk II on Moscow, this will be tough to do. But more important is the debalzewo cauldron. After all, Hollande and Merkel hurried to Moscow to strike a ceasefire deal precisely to save those 5000-8000 Ukrainian troups (likely containing also a substantial, but unknown number of Polish, French and Georgian mercenaries). But was anything in Minsk said towards Debalzewo? Not a single word! Now, IF the Ukrainians try to break out of the cauldron the novorussians won't idly stand by.But those thousands of soldiers will run out of food pretty fast, so they either capitulate, leave without their weapons ot try to break out. In the latter case, Minsk II is history and Hollande/Merkel did achieve exactly zero of their objectives. Actually, even less than that. Because Putin demonstrated his willingness to end the bloodshed and scored some points in the propaganda war. While the cauldron and the threat to eliminate another 8000 ukrainian troups is still there (and various sources say that the troups there are among the best that the Ukrainians still have after all the losses they suffered.
Declaring Putin the loser here and blaming him to have caved in is at the minimum very premature.
A few points.
Yes, given how the actual turnout rate for their conscription attempts is in the toilet (apparently it's 6%), it's quite likely that those trapped inside the cauldron will be a significant hit to the Ukie army. Their winter offensive was a total catastrophe. Which brings me to the second item to note.
Is the NAF going to cower in fear when a single batallion is giong to go to the Ukraine and train the Ukrainians? What kind of threat is that? It's not as if the Americans have done a good job anywhere and like they say, seventh time's a charm! From iraq and Afghanistan, the Americans have been training Syrians in Jordan as well as Libyians. I'm sure the Kremlin had a good laugh over that one. All the Americans can teach the Ukrainians is how to botch a foreign occupation and eventually get driven out by the locals.
As for Putin being the loser, yes he actually is. No matter how any of this turns out, (whatever is left of the) Ukraine will end up in NATO, right on more of the Russian border. Putin is operating in a damage control mode. Ultimately, he may lose the Ukrainian battle but may win the larger "war" as he might be playing the Afghan gambit by sucking in Western Europe and the USA into the failed state that is now Ukraine.
How can he be a loser, he can got Crimea back (does not have to pay hundreds of millions in lease each year, plus he gets all the gas and oil deposits in the black sea, and one of the best tourist destinations in the world), and stands to get back Novorussia which has the best bits of the Ukraine pie (all the coal and steel, and gas and most factories). The big losers are the Ukrainians in Kiev and Galicia. They will end up with a much smaller Ukraine that is economically devastated and forced to suck the IMF dick while in Chains for the rest of their lives. Welcome to the EU Galicia, enjoy the brothel life. If the EU wants to support a nation of 40 million unemployed let them. It may well break up the EU when other countries have a fit as the Euro plunges to shit as they keep printing the fuck out of it bailing out the Greeks, Italians etc and paying for the Ukraine sluts. Expect the Euro to be worth one third its current value in a few years.
Ukraine might end up in NATO some day, but by that time it will probably have both the size and the relevance of Lithuania. In this case NATO might want to be really careful what it wishes for it just might become true...
Highest probability, Ukraine falls into pieces like Yugoslavia did. US, EU and Russia will manage the pieces with their printing presses and spin...
Putin is biding his time.
A good chess player leads the opponent in. Obama and the U.S., the E.U., think they have pressure on him and a strategy. Putin is waiting and nodding his head as he lets the West bungle and show their true colors.
I mean really, trying to set up a neo-Nazi putsch regime in the former capital of Russia? Waterloo moment for the West, without even mentioning Stalingrad and what's his name.
ZH Putin's groupies don't want either understand or believe that Putin and Russia have lost.
This was not Minsk II. It was/is Munich II.
Now, like in 29 September 1938 when Czechoslovakia was invaded by Hitler, NATO/USA will invade Ukraine in preparation to destroy Russia. This was big win for the USA and China bud mostly for the USA.
As I stated many times, Putin will end up like Qaddafi or Saddam Hussein.
Sure, a people and a nation with hundreds and hundreds of years of repelling foreign invaders will just rollover for the corrupt backstabbing weasels of the West who betray their own people and principals.
It is the U.S. that has jumped the shark and betrayed everything it is supposed to stand for.
Europe is making the same mistakes it has made for the past 400 years.
Russia will not go down, and China is not an ally of the West.
What are you smoking?
Amnesia, my guess
caconhma, I agree 100%, Putler's days are numbered - he'll either be "suicided" or just be deposed overnight when no one expects it. He's already pissed off the entire world, now he's pissed off his butt buddies in the "DNR" and "LNR", useful idiots like Zacharenko and Pushilin - who are madder at Putie than the west after the percieved sell-out at Minsk-2. They're already pissing on the agreement that Putie made for them. Who knows? Maybe they'll wake up and Putie will find them on his doorstep, after crossing the conveniently open border he left for them to waltz right in...tanks can roll east as easily as west, y'know. Delicious irony...
pls, just...stfu and go facebook.com
Ah, Nato will invade Ukraine and then Russia? I wonder which NATO member state will be willing to sacrficie a couple ten thousand men to take on Russia? make no mistake, if NATO really sets up shop in Ukraine, Russia will strike pre-emptively at any advanced military facility NATO is trying to build up. Things then could get nuclear and very ugly very fast. While the USA and Britain may not have any problem with that scenario, as long as their own soldiers and their own territory is kept out, the rest of Europe is not going to like it. Does anyone seriously believe that German or French voters and their governments will be willing to send their troops there just because the russophobs in Poland and the Baltic states demand it? Come on!
As for the USA, their big win was to orchestrate the regime change in Kiev. Everything after that didn't go as planned and hoped for and to claim that Minsk II was a victory for the US is more than a stretch. I mean, their puppet Poroshenko obviously didn't like to sign anything there. But yeah, a big U.S. victory....
Seems more like a hedged bet more than capitulation. Russia has to know Right Sector setup an alternate command structure and has vowed to not abide by the deal - not to mention to fairly well known divisions within the so called junta. They win and Ukraine will fall into genuine civil war. They lose and Ukraine holds it together, some-miraculous-how, and the republics are incorporated.
Donbass isn't really all that important at this stage. Keeping the war going is. Does it really matter to the west if the war is in east or west Ukraine? Russians are betting is doesn't.
BS GH
The self importance of politicians.
I'm making over $7k a month working part time. I kept hearing other people tell me how much money they can make online so I decided to look into it. Well, it was all true and has totally changed my life. This is what I do... www.globe-report.com
Have some hope for the human race, at least just once, PCR.
Stop going manic depressive all the time!
What is human? What is civil? Is civility human nature? If you could unbound, would you?
The oceans are all but dead, toxins are omnipreasent, and chemically addalled representitives believe they are gods of men. You trade on a shadow of a thing that you can not see. Plato's cave rules the days now more then ever.
To know all this and still call a tree a tree takes a greater effort of mind and sprit then the papers would have you believe.
That's so deep dude. I need to roll another joint.
? Slavoj Žižek
Did anyone else notice that supposed conservative white knight Ted Cruz is a co-sponsor of the bill to send arms to Ukraine? And here I thought I was a conspiracy theorist thinking that his Goldman Sachs wife suggested that maybe his words are meaningless.
Yep but I crossed him off the list long ago
He's a Farce... A total Farce
Ted is a lot like Rush Limbaugh, but without the integrity.
hilarious
Some people say ZH is libertarian, truth is, ZH is full of progressive douchebags.
Is that a shot across the bow of a certain someone that like's to eat Randian pussy willow pie?
Simple rule it took me a long time to learn. If they made it to national office, don't pay any attention whatsoever to what they say. They work for the bankers/oligarchs. Same goes for Elizabeth Warren and Rand Paul.
True enough in all cases but Ron Paul's. He was consistently antiwar when he held national office, and he is still consistently outspoken even though his son is running for national office on the neocon platform. Now what are we to make of that??
Ted Cruz's wife's connection to Goldman Sachs made me take a step back
Another simple rule: government (any government) always lies. It may not be always true, but it is true in well over 50% of the cases. Which makes it an useful though basic rule of thumb...
I need to start challenging you again Lola. I thought you said you were leaving? how many times did you say that now? You're the Brian Williams of ZH.
Don't be to hard the beave Ward.
He's got Rand's pubic hair stuck in his teeth and whenever he smiles it looks as if he needs to shave.
Sending weapons will be useless without Putins response. No one really wants to use them with any brains.
US forces have no real interest in fighting. You can always convince the fighter jocks to drop bombs.
Yeah but he's totally against everything Obama does, except he never wins THOSE fights.
It's not about conservative/liberal, Lola. Ted Cruz is no different than Fuckacuntas Warren. I see some good/deep conversations in our future. Happy Valentines day BABE! Still love you.
Merkel is bad looking tomatoe.... A sun dried tomatoe for that.
inhofe has pictures of the whole thing /s
Including the one with Big O on Mouchelle's bike?
he has the same resource connections colin powell
had back in 2002, the ideological fabrication mill.
.
Success is the result of perfection, hard work, learning from failure, loyalty, and persistence.
Colin Powell
Rather astounding really. When I saw those pictures I immediately recognized them from Georgia. Those pictures were used in every MSM story about the Russian invasion there. I wonder if he was ever in a helo with Brian.
And Holland " the french fry", is asking as in this photo: ""What the fuck am I doing here?"
Providing the fig leaf that this deal isn't strictly between Russia and Germany.
Clearing the way for Mistral delivery.
Pardon me but since 911 are they not referred to as freedom fries?
He wants to get rid of them ships. Because otherwise Sarkozy will shove them up his ass.
The propaganda is so rich from the DC cockmouths. "The seperatists are a proxy for Putin?" And the Ukies are not proxies for Nuland and the deep state? Fuck you
Hope is based on the outcome of realistic and scientific analysis.
Realism= Human Error
Scientific analysis= Human Error
What are you trying to say here Yen?
If you're serious about that, try explaining the veracity of that to the people who researched, developed, designed and fabricated the computer you're tapping on.
Hope is a psychological response to desperation, which may be due to real things, or imagined nothings.
And since when is analysis necessarily scientific? Analysis is rational application of logic to observation. To have a chance of being a scientific analysis, it has to start with scientific observations. Most observation isn't scientific, so most analysis isn't either.
So are you saying therefore that hope stems only from scientific observation of reality?
If you are, the error is yours.
But what were you trying to insinuate?
Or is this the product of a weekend happy-juice imbibe?
The deal is a charade for public consumption. The Ukrainian Right Sector already said that they will not respect the deal. The Novorussians have also stated that there are many flaws in the deal. Don't worry, our MSM media will blame the Novorussians and Russians for breaking the deal. It appears to me that our American foreign policy has always been, "do as you're told or we will bomb you". Expect war, a big war.
Mayhaps the USA has served it's purpose. Maybe that photo is just for plausible deniability, while Western leadership leads the world into a war (not a huge one) by design. Then, ... the global press, operating under the same masters, turns to demonize the West, with the court of global public opinion, thereby bringing the USA firmly under control of the UN.
Vichy DC isn't the only entity which has leverage over the Ukraine.
http://fortruss.blogspot.com/2015/02/germany-reserves-right-to-impose.html
The current Ukrainian government came to power on the backs of violence and fascists that yearned for war there so there is no way they can go back to them with this peace plan. Putin and Russia know this very well, Minsk 2 will cause a rift and split between Europe and the USA by highlighting the reality of the Kiev/DC position and ideology. In that regard it is neither farce nor sellout however there won't be any peace there for a while...or until Kiev finally surrenders.
Yes sir.. You are a not a 'checkers player'..
Probably the only reason any truce was considered by Kiev at all was to buy time to stave off the imminent massacre of UKR forces in Debaltsevo.
The deal was about driving a wedge between the U.S. & their European allies...
Read between the lines... When Washington blows up this deal, they will further alienate the EU bloc & make Putin look a lil more attractive in the process... Putin knows, 'the trend is his friend'.. Meaning, there is already a split emerging & he's trying to widen it..
Remember, if it looks too good to be true, IT IS..
any deal must include the saudis,
israel and, of course, their puppet,
the us. no?
.
"...Now, amazingly, those same countries are taking this same failed strategy again with Greece. European elites haven’t been kind to Greece. They’ve made the mistaken assumption that there are no other “fish in the sea”, but they’re soon likely to discover that Greece, like a spurned lover, has found a new main squeeze, one which offers them things that Europe never did.
When that happens, Europe’s elites will find themselves on the outside, looking wistfully in…
And they’ll have no one to blame but themselves." t.d.
.
The Wild Card Question that Brussels Dares not Ask
Posted on February 13, 2015 by The Doc
http://www.silverdoctors.com/the-wild-card-question-that-brussels-dares-...
Scary thought actually.
"Two free fire zones."
Enter Martial Law Monday?
Everything covered under the ISIS statute? "Run the whole thing out of the White House itself"?
Welcome to Washington DC.
Why do we even have the Pentagon again?
regarding the question "why do we have the pentagon again?".
.
we never had the pentagon, the pentagon
always had us, "had" us,
or the pentagon had us and we became
an expendable asset, traded in a strategic
confidence with greater potential.
frightening indeed.
Every vacuum of the last decades, especially those created by sanctions, was right away filled up by China.
Washington Post "US alleges Russians fighting in Ukraine hours before cease-fire"
The Washington Post-------- need anymore info past that to continue reading?
Exactly. I just point it out to know where the US stands
This is nothing the "Russians" shooting down another jetliner can't resolve......
Spewing MSM propaganda without evidence and you blame the Russians.... wow, this is hopeless. Enjoy your propaganda and war. The 65" flat screen in HD is the new reality.
th "" indicate /sarc.
pay attention.
Geeeze Louise, gotta spell everything out for some people, lol.....
Hitler watches the Three Stooges Trailer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paWBKZ6ap60 (2:36)
I'm curious Tyler? What's the shill count on Z/H?
Putin still the thorn in the side of DC that won't go away.
PCR is right about "presstitutes" though. MSM prostitutes.
"judging by the report on RT". Stopped reading right there. Why trade one set of propaganda for another set of propaganda? Fuck it, I'll just put on MSNBC and go full-frontal lobotomy.
careful, you have entered the twilight zone.
"fair is foul and foul is fair."
The Germans said tonight that there will be a big price to pay if there are any cease fire violations. With what will the Ukrainians pay with? Obviously they will only blame the Russians for any and all cease fire violations and the Russians know this. In a way, the entire Minsk charade is just another provokation by the West. Poroshenko did not even sign the Minsk deal, he asked Kuchma to sign for the Ukraine. The deal is worse than a joke, just bad faith actors/puppets trying to save their lame investments.
We will see tomorrow new sanctions
And new invasions.
methinks the krauts will get theirs in the end.
Maybe. But note, that the Krauts are misrepresented by their puppet-politicians. Two thirds want friendship with Russia.
The Summit and every Summit is designed to provide relief/escape for trapped Wuke troops and mercs.
When the Truce breaks, the pre-planned ratcheting of Sanctions continues.
The strategy is to give Russia only three options, in order:
1. Cave in to US Globalists & Neocons
2. Strangle under the Boa-like ratcheting of sanctions and enabling of its WUke enemy. Keep raising the temperature and pressure on Russia. Slowly cut EU's ties to Russia, deny Silk Road 2 (the Eurasian super-tradezone) from evolving.
3. Force Russia into military action. Use it to immediately and completely sever it's relationships with EU.
Russia is caught between a rock and a hard place. None of the above options can or should be accepted by Russia. They must create new options, which are possible.
The most powerful, necessary and inevitable option is the one that the selfish and compromised Chicoms and the Fifth-Column CBs won't let them: Peg their currency to REAL ASSETS.
In fact, All the BRICS & allies MUST* peg their troubled currencies to real assets and leave the US altogether. Before it's too late, and the Divide & Conquer campaign consumes each and every one of them.
* Real Money based on Real Assets = the GPS of Economics. Without it, you're just winging it.
They are continuum shooting... No peace, forget any peace deals with west backed Ukr-nazi
The leader of the Ukrainian nationalist movement "Right sector" Dmitry Yarosh said that two battalions of soldiers extremist organizations continue to advance under Debaltseve. This was said in a statement Yarosh, published on its website the National Guard of Ukraine.
Russia IS demonic.
yet, IS is a creation of the cia, saudi arabia
and israel. as clinton said......
Bill Clinton " It Depends on what the meaning of the word is is."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4XT-l-_3y0
.
and he went to oxford and was a freakin' president, twice.
US and Ukrainian officials seek to torpedo Minsk cease-fire agreement
By Niles Williamson14 February 2015
American and Ukrainian officials issued provocative threats and accusations against Russia less than 48 hours after German, French, Russian and Ukrainian negotiators reached a cease-fire agreement following marathon talks in the Belorussian capital of Minsk.
The statements of Obama administration officials and Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko were designed to create a pretext for scuttling the cease-fire deal and escalating the assault on pro-Russian separatist forces in eastern Ukraine along with the diplomatic, economic and military campaign against Russia, while attempting to foist the blame on Moscow.
Washington and Kiev did not wait for the truce to take effect on Sunday to launch new charges of Russian military aggression, none of which were substantiated. Meanwhile, fighting in eastern Ukraine between pro-Russian separatists and government forces intensified.
http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2015/02/14/ukra-f14.html
From The Headlines the Western Media Will Blast When Minsk 2.0 Agreement Fails:
i was reading The John McLain headline until i see "canada", that forced me to repeat the reading to realize i missread the sentence.
All the UKES in Canada are concentrated in Winterpeg ....it will be a while before they can march on OTTAWA-Bass region. /sarc
Disagree that Russia and DPR/LPR gave up the farm, the deal as currently constructed under my understanding forces Ukies and others to officially to recognise the two Republics and allow them to legitimise themselves with their own laws, army, elections etc., something which Porkyshenko cannot allow at any cost. With Germoney and EU basically having to cover costs of rebuild, wages/pensions, etc for the redevelopment and acting as guarantees for Ukraine keeping up those clauses otherwise some of the other clauses cannot be enforced. If Porky recognises them he is dead, if he doesn't he is also dead because he can forget any EU, IMF or other money coming his way and if the big dogs of EU get fed up with him Russia could take advantage and invade proper with EU "approval".
Secondly no mention of the cauldron in Minsk which makes it the airport of the arrangement ie any figthing will be completely ignored as everyone turns a blind eye to it as was the case with the airport situation under Minsk I deal.
Bravo Kawaii!
PCR is right. This battle won't end until Little Russia is re-incorporated into the Russian nation and its pro-German elite liquidated.
The war, of course, won't end till Russia removes Germany from the map of Eurasia.
I think it's more an US vs Russia issue than a Germany vs Russia issue. Germany acts like an US puppet state by slitting it's own throat with the sanctions and all. They still get the energy from Russia tough so Germany is playing a dangerous game here. Germany can't do without cheap Russian energy. If that cheap energy is gone German industry will leave Germany and they have said so. We are talking about cheap oil, gas and coal here.
Germany Buys Most Russian Coal Since 2006 to Diversify
13 February 2015, by Alessandro Vitelli (Bloomberg)
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-02-13/germany-buys-most-russian-coal-since-2006-amid-eu-diversity-push
I agree with PCR. The question then could be are there any reasons for Putin for not doing what PCR suggested might have been the better solution? Only thing I can come up with at the moment is that maybe he wants the US to believe they can win this war and draw them in while we know the future namely that they never can win this war so close to Russia. That way he can keep his enemy close and worn him out while being able to observe him closely. 'Operation US Downfall'
"An enemy who knows the future never can lose. We were allowed to win. This thing wants us to believe we can win."
Edge of Tomorrow - Finding Out Why This is Happening https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EL7UZjCwSek
Big question is if Poroshenko can keep the hardline right-wing nationalists on-board?
I think here he must be playing to the gallery - he cannot really mean he wants to bomb eastern ukrainian civilians into basements?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHWHqj8g7Bk
That is precisely what has happened, so yes, he did mean it.
Poroshenko was quoted as saying 'we got what we wanted without agreeing to anything.' Negotiations are futile. Only facts on the ground will decide.
Paul, you are one of my heroes, a defector from the criminal warfare state who has become a voice of truth, reason - and outrage. There is a level however at which I don't think you quite understand what is going on yet. Strategies for defeating the Empire have to involve engaging the people at all levels, building coalitions, exploiting cracks in the Empire's coalitions and isolating its moves one after another. It has to be a long-term game. Putin understands this. Many of the supporters of Novorossia do too.
Questions to ask:
Peace in Ukraine becomes possible when Germany, France and other nations of Europe put NATO in check, break with Washington and insist on it. Does this deal increase the pressure on those governments to break with Washington's plans to expand the war? We've seen very clear and dramatic signs over the last week of a growing schism.
Peace in Ukraine comes when the Nazi thug "government" in Kiev collapses and the people of Ukraine take over and hold the criminals responsible. Does this agreement increase the pressure on them? We see a huge popular movement against the draft growing while the crazy right is mobilizing to overthrow the Poroshenko "government". Each defeat on the battlefield is making Ukraine's regular soldiers ever more bitter, and the defeated troops if they are set loose from Debaltsalvo instead of mostly being slaughtered which they know is coming are going to go home looking for blood! And when the Kiev government fails to implement its agreements, if and when the Kiev government tries another offensive, the disgust of the people of Europe will reach new heights.
In the meantime there is the Greek drama, not unconnected. Putin is manoeuvering to give Greece critical support, while keeping maximum pressure on the European governments to break ranks with the ECB - and holding out the carrot of a Eurasian Alliance and escape from the Empire of the Dollar Bill. For this he has to keep avoiding every move to paint Russia as a determined agressor, and to patiently but vigorously keep fighting the information war. Many European leaders are too compromised to bite but the people are watching and raising their demands. And even the compromised ones have to be chafing under their humiliation.
Meanwhile every week that Putin buys with this manoeuvering sees another step in the collapse of the Dollar as the world's currency, the growth of bilateral agreements, exposing of the fraudulent nature of the whole dollar-euro system. The US alliances in the Middle East are in tatters. Iraq, Syria and Yemen are not toppled dominoes any more, they're the Tar Baby. The global economy is collapsing, as witnessed by the collapse of the Commodities Index and the Baltic Dry Index. China, forced by its collapsing export trade, is about to cast the dollar lose and the rising dollar is putting intense stress on the entire dollar-denominated bond market. Now, the demand for an audit of the US gold reserve is bringing to a head the growing conviction among the world's bankers that the gold's not there, and the policy of suppressing the dollar price of gold is on the brink of collapse. The world is a very different place from the one last Spring when Putin took his stand.
As in the 1960's when the US' advanced plans to wipe out the "communist world" with a nuclear blitz were derailed by growing entanglement in wars along the periphery, the US' troubles are multiplying beyond anything that can be focused on Russia.
Putin's playing for time, and winning, and the Donetsk Republics need Russia to win. The brave and heroic men and women of the Donetsk are the front line in the battle against fascism and world war. Much is being asked of them, but not too much - no more than they're capable of. They deserve our support in the only way we really can, to speak out for them and demand Washington back down. We're not helping them by calling Putin a traitor.
btw I got some facetime with my Congressman last night. I have many pieces of business with him, but I used my two minutes to talk with him not about those but about the Ukraine and the Russian sanctions bills. I feel proud that I did, and sad that I had to. He seem startled that I confronted him bluntly with things he evidently knew to be true but was used to weaseling around. FWIW, I think he heard me. Just one conversation between one Congressman and a constituent he counts on, but history is built of the cumulative effect of millions of choices, millions of events. Like the brave defenders of Donetsk hunkered down in the cold, all we can do is play the part that life puts in front of us, and trust that it matters.
I think your analysis is spot on. I think now Obama will pay a big price for trying to destabilize Ukraine . Putin is now destabilizing Western interests in the M E Africa South America Europe Asia and has been given credit for the disruption of opium trafficking out of Afghanistan. Putin believes he he can defeat the US Financially without a war. Come May Russia will not be shackled by the dependency of Western finance when the BRICS own bank financing kicks, that will render US/EU sanctions totally useless enabling Putint to trade with the West under his own terms. Putin has struck a number of trade deals with a number of countries China,Argentina,Brazil,Turkey,Egypt,Iran, Bahrain,India,Pakistan,Syria,Finland worth billions(not in US$) The EU/US far from isolating Russia with sanctions has in fact lost out with a number of trade deals to Russia's new trade partners, Germany does more than 40% of it's total trade with Russia involving 350.000 jobs. Russia now has a big Ace card with Greece, It could be payback time for the EU should Russia decide to bail out Greece and leave the EU high and dry with mega debt that would surely sink the EU economy which is no less than they deserve.
Thanks King
Putin is not defeating the Empire like a boxer in the ring, but like a Judo master. The Empire is going down under its own momentum. Putin is just stepping out of the way and giving a little strategic tug or sticking out a leg without seeming to. A dangeroud game where he has to keep winning, can't afford to lose even once.
But of course he's not alone.
The brave and heroic men and women of the Donetsk are the front line in the battle against fascism and world war.
spot on, as our British cousins say
Drawing a connection:
I wrote:
"Peace in Ukraine becomes possible when Germany, France and other nations of Europe put NATO in check, break with Washington and insist on it." <snip>
"Peace in Ukraine comes when the Nazi thug "government" in Kiev collapses and the people of Ukraine take over and hold the criminals responsible."
Well, Putin, Hollande and Merkel evidently made a deal, one which evidently their national interests impelled them toward strongly enough for them to break ranks with Washington. Poroshenko swallowed it but it didn't take him 24 hours to reverse himself and renounce it. The Right Sector has declared that their militias won't honor it. Washington is proceeding with talk and plans for providing the Ukraine "government" with arms and training, in violation of the deal.
Correlary: Hollande and Merkel must conclude that they need to cooperate in bringing the fascist "government" in Kiev down to secure their own vital interests. They both - especially the French - have experience with overthrowing non-compliant governments, but not necessarily with bringing down a US-supported one.
This could go from interesting to interestinger.
Well, one thing is certain: peace will be declared until options expiration on Friday so they can drive the VIX down and pocket the premiums
An excellent article Dr. Roberts and after having read it It seems to me that both The United Sates and Russia might be totally controled by one single entity otherwise Mr. Putin would not have made such a deal.
It was an near perfect deal for him. I don't think you understand what's happening.
What I have beeen wondering since the whole "Euromaidan" thing started is how Russian GRU and FSB could miss what was about to happen? I have no doubt they knew about US$5 billion "investment" by the U.S. State Department in another "color revolution" in Ukraine and its consequences.
Oh those poor, poor misunderstood Russians. So kind. So giving. Thinking never of themselves and certainly not of territorial conquest. Oh, perish the thought. When will those poor, poor Russians be understood?
F'n tools!
yeah, we consider you gone.
This will not last, then the Novrussian forces can get back to destroying the Ukrainian army. It is pretty well broken already.
Seal off Maruipol and take the coast.
You're missed.
I won't ask you're opinion regarding the "Gulf of Aden"?
A lot are not getting this. Putin wants east Ukraine independant and in command of it's own area. He has Crimea, and all he wants now is for the west to pay for all this.
That requires a certain subtlty as he wants his cake and to eat it. I suspect he will largely succed.
>>> Putin wants east Ukraine independant.
I very much doubt this. Since I personally don't speak fluent Russian and have few contacts in the Kremlin, I don't know what the Russian government wants, but I suspect it really is what they say: an intact Ukraine, absolutely non-NATO, which is federalized. Galicia, as many Russians have said, should just go its own way. If Ukraine ultimately is carved up by force (aka plan B), I'd expect the Russian-backed Novorussian state to include Odessa.
Since you personally...stfu/
"Galicia, as many Russians have said, should just go its own way."
Galicia has little chance of survival on its own. If/when they become independent after a dissolution of the Ukrainian state in its current borders, they will have to look for some kind of association with Poland, their historical overlord. Maybe this is why Poland has been so heavily involved in destabilizing Ukraine.
The same goes for independent Ruthenia. They will have to associate themselves with Slovakia or Hungary.
how is UE 'intact' w/o Galicia?
if it's carved up expect, PL, HU, and RO to come in for a share.
He wants the land bridge to Crimea and he wants a buffer zone 80 miles wide along the coast of the Black Sea around the peninsula.
The coup in Kiev was illegal, but the demented politicians in Western Europe ate it up like a pedophile eats up 8 year old boys and girls.
And just last week the Clueless Negroid allowed that he had to twist a few arms to get his way.
Obama makes Uncle Tom look like Idi Amin.
And Idi Amin makes Obama look like a turd in the punch bowl.
@".. That requires a certain subtity "...
this proposed "subtity" concept intrigues
and interests me. developed, it might
include the biologic and cake design,
and cakes are nothin' to sneeze at.
Relax people. Vlad knows what he's doing. Fewer casualties if you let the enemy self-destruct. Besides, for now, the fantastic NovoRussians don't have enough troops to hold territory. In a few months they expect to have another 100k troops trained and ready to deploy. Good luck with that Zino-Nazis.
The Ukrainian army is getting worse and the Novorossian army is getting better.
So who are ya gonna call?
Nazi busters!
I'm not sure.
Is there such a thing as a false farce?
And if there is, is it better or worse than a plain vanilla farce?
ok, you have reduced it to "peace deal or sellout". where is the distinction with a difference? . re-enter the farce factor, no? so, the false farce is reestablished as a worthy opponent of the vanilla farce. . problem is, this is the beginning where no sane man enter. i would be astonished if there could be a coherent continuation of this particular thread of thought; would be exceptionally grateful and amazed, humbled beyond the ubiquitous common state , soil. je suis "chappie".
"How all occasions do inform against Obama and NATO."
I humbly thank you, sir
b
Radio Svoboda (Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty) - the US Congress propaganda beacon came out today with a curious documentary called "Poroshenko's Zarskoe Celo" (Tsar Village of Poroshenko) . The documentary is the result of the documented investigation into the scheme of Poroshenko (real name Weisman - the US bloody fascist puppet) and a dozen of his advisers to privatize land (free grab) in the most expensive and prestigious part of Kiev. Poroshenko-Weisman was a minister in every government of Ukraine including the last Soviet communist government.
I think that it's very significant that this video came out the day after the Minsk peace agreement. It's a clear indication that the US government and Congress is ready to sack Poroshenko. We all know that the accusation in "government corruption" is the code word for any national government being a target for a US organized "color revolution."
http://rusvesna.su/news/1423954732 ( In Ukrainian with the Russian outline.) Use yandex.ru translation service.
sack him before the nazis whack him
My vp who speaks Ukranian, and Russian , as well as traveling with me to Kyiv, Soche, and Moscow 5 times over the last year have first hand experience with life there. Neither Russia, the Ukraine, Europe, or the US will rebuild the damaged eastern regions of the Ukraine. By making them autonomous the east Ukrainians will have even less ability to ask for infrastructure rebuilding from the cash depleted Kyiv central gov.
are we there yet
No, you are wrong.
When Ukraine will be cleared from fascists, both homegrown and foreign. And after Ukrainians will purge themselves of the Nazi ideology, Russia will help to rebuild Ukraine. There are millions of Russians living there. Most of the Ukrainians have relatives in Russia. It's really a family issue.
maybe you should change vp's?
The USA & NATO should supply ALL the eastern European countries who fear continued Russian aggression, with ALL the weapons available, including nuclear weapons.
The USA & NATO should expand the war so that it becomes a kiliing field for Russians, bleeds the Russian economy of money and Russia of men stupid enough to serve tzar Putin, and purge all the Russians from eastern European countries.
Justice and a small pay back for the decades of suffering under the soviet regime.
Fucking hell, Obummer the fucking whitehouse faggot has got his pet cocksucker to join ZH
Obola is a piece of living garbage, so are you.
to prober
Thank you... Trolls and software programs like you make it so easy to see the danger for the rest of us coming from the morbid satanic West.
The US makes it a point to solve all its problems for the expense of the rest of the world. Whatever it takes. Even if it means that the US will destroy all the other countries and suck the last drop of blood from the last human.
you are full of s*it.
read some history.
it was churchhill and roosevelt that ceded most of europe to the soviets.
NATO is an empty shell.
the ussa would not be able to control the players
look at iraq and afghan.
you are full of s*it.
The Ukies can just go a bit further west and train in Poland or suffer (the Ides of March).
i think PCR missed it on this one.
the fact that it was supossed to fail was lost on no one from day one, except maybe PCR.
Putin demonized? Who besides PCR cares? It's part of the game. This is not a popularity contest
Putin's latest ratings in RU are 85%+
Poroshenko is on the hook. He can't tame his nazis.
UE is on the hook. No money.
Maidan anniversary coming up soon, supossedly not very auspicious for porky and yats.
ussa was represented in the talks by porky, who better?
DE and FR are back to taking to RU, privately, w/o UE.
This is significant, isn't it?
What is the ussa winning here?
Kiew?, western UE?
sounds like a little PCR paranoia or fear mongering.
Terrible political errors did produce a damaging conflict, a festering wound in the flesh of Europe that is going to be there for a long time and the population of the Ukraine is first and foremost the victim with a significant number of killed people (offical numbers are crap - realistic estimates are 10000-20000). The biggest mistake has been made by Berlin and Bruxelles. The support of the putsch in Kiev and participation in the sanctions against Russia has wrecked the friendly and constructive relations between Europe and Russia and crippled the political influence that Europe had on Moscow. The negative effects on the European economy are significant (the real revenue losses have not yet been admitted by our leaders) and long lasting. The confidence of the electorate in the european government will be crushed if the negative effects can no longer be hidden. Europe has now the responsibility for the amputated remainder of the former Ukraine which lost its export to Russia and is terminally insolvent. Europe has gained nothing and lost everything: it is in a loose-loose position. Moscow did pre-empt the entrance of a functioning Ukraine into NATO and EU, safed at least the crimean peninsula and the adjacent territorial waters in the black sea including the confirmed and unconfirmed energy ressources in these areas and possibly a bridgehead in the eastern Ukraine. The economical fallout from the sanctions seems to be manageable for Moscow but the political damage is very significant. I agree with the article's conclusion that for this price Moscow could have pushed forward further, perhaps not occupying the entire territory but everything east of the river Dnjepr. That plan was certainly on the table and some day in the future we might learn why it was not implemented. That is the second biggest mistake. By seeding and managing the Maidan revolution (or better the Kiev putsch) Washington succeded in damaging Europe and Russia alike and opened one more teatre of war and destruction. It depends on the viewpoint if that is a political success or mistake. I consider it a mistake because Washington did demonstrate once more it's destructive impact on global politics and the need to be controlled and curbed in the future. This is the third biggest mistake. Everything lost and nothing gained particularly because of the undeniable stupidity of the European leaders. It is a shame!
kind of weak analysis.
it is obvious why minsk 2 is so important even if it does fall apart. it is defiance in the face of the usa for france and germany. how dare they try to solve a euro crisis without the usa? and how dare putin act so civil with his peers.
so minsk 2 is the deal the euro/asia zone came up with if the usa was not involved. now we get to watch the usa destroy every part of the deal. all kiev has to do is pass a law and the war is over. they won't because they serve a different master. everyone knows kiev is run by the usa so the usa is to blame for the failure of the minsk deal. hollande and merkel can both claim they tried but were thwarted by the usa. that plays well at home.
most importantly, the leaders of eurasia got together to hash out a deal like a prototype of the future when their economies will be able to operate withoput the spectre of the usa zionutz wanting to blow everyone up.
The facts are 1. America started this with it's support for regime change in kiev 2. snipers being used by both sides,protesters being shot etc 3. the new kiev govt made rule that the russian language was not to be used, extreme right wing factions pushing hard for that. 4. Russia takes Crimea, elections held overwhelming support to return to the motherland. 5. people of eastern regions of ukraine defend themselves with russian arms and supplies.
While the former president of Ukraine was a mongrel, it all stinks of russian bashing mainly and as always the common people pay with their blood. while the leaders suffering from long winded meetings and little sleep???? screw the pissing contests, and throw all the leaders into a open field and let them fight it out. YEAH I BET IT WOULD ALL BE SOLVED REAL QUICK??????
Paul Craig Roberts:
“Putin could be no more demonized even if the Russian military had invaded Ukraine, conquered it, and reincorporated Ukraine in Russia.”
My comments:
When Western countries do something evil nowadays the see to that the time span for these actions are as short as possible. When Israel attacks Gaza, for instance, the don´t let such operations drag on longer than necessary. Instead they bomb more intensively during a short period of time. Thereby they limit the negative media exposure in the West. If they had bombed Gaza for, let´s say, 6 months with the same total amount of bombs they would have stood out as more evil.
The problem for Russia with the conflict in eastern Ukraine is that it drags on and on never seems to end. Therefore, the total amount of negative media exposure for Russia becomes bigger than it should have been.
So I think that the smartest thing Russia could do now is to try to evacuate the rebels to Russia and replace them with UN or EU troops that can protect the Russian speaking population from Kolomoisky´s private army. Let me also repeat this proposal:
“In Russia, Putin can use the rebel soldiers as reliable anti-riot policemen or as an anti-coup militia. It is probably hard to find people that you can trust for such tasks. If Putin pays them well he will have a rock-solid anti-coup unit if we are talking about a coup sponsored by the West. But perhaps he should separate fighters who are communists from nationalists and other non-communist fighters. The communists could perhaps join the existing Dzerzhinsky Division. Nationalists and other non-communists could be placed in a new unit. Perhaps this unit could pick up the name for the secret police under the Czarist rule – the Okhrana. So if the communists attempt to topple Putin he can use the Okhrana unit against the communists and vice versa.”
...which I posted here:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-02-13/thirst-war-sen-inhofe-releases-fake-photos-russian-troops-ukraine
I would also like to add that if Russia would have invaded Ukraine I guess that there would still have been fighting going in Ukraine which would have meant continued bad publicity for Putin and Russia.
Another problem is that no matter what Russia does Putin can expect bad publicity in Western media since Western media are owned or controlled by people who think that it was wrong to take Chodorkavsky´s money and put him in prison. They won´t give up until you got Yeltsin style rule in Russia again. If Putin had controlled Western media it would have stood out just as legitimate for Russia to attack Ukraine as the US attack on Iraq because of alleged “weapons of mass destruction”. So I think that real problem for Russia is who controls the big media in the West. I also think that China should be concerned about this problem.
You seem like a very confused person; things are so much simpler than this.
I thought that I would might be accused for oversimplifying things. Or being too cynical. But political power in the West is primarily about controlling the big media. Campaign contributions also matter but controlling the big media is most important.
As I see it, the separatists only have to allow Ukrainians to police the borders after the law is changed to allow autonomy and also that elections are held. (meaning observed elections that the US can't pretend aren't rigged) So if that gets delayed or doesn't happen, neither does the border control. Mariopol and the route to Crimea was the next bloodbath and city to fall, which is why Merkel was so anxious to get a deal in quickly. VP had to agree to it, even though strategically he expects Kiev to fall apart before the later changes get implemented.
Here's a Spiegel article from late last year that presents the story about how the whole Uke situation blew up. Very interesting read. No one wanted to deal with the Russia issue. Oh well!
http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/war-in-ukraine-a-result-of-mi...
Paul Craig Roberts
Please write an article explaining why you think it was OK for armed Russian Marines to board Ukrainian Ships in a Ukrainian port, and take over those ships and steal them?
Was that an act of interstate armed aggression, or just Putin being a friendly innocent misunderstood good neighbor and champion of freedum?
Don't think that because you're a doddering geriatric old poop with an ego bigger than Jupiter, that you can get away with talking ridiculous insane bullcrap without getting called out.
And btw, is it OK if I do that with your home, and your car? I really like them Paul, so if I put a gun in your face and tell you to fuck off and run for your life, we'll still be cool, right?
People have just let you rant on like a fucking lunatic, for far too long.
Geriatric piss-pot.
PS: to the sheep of zerohedge, when Orwell warned that people would re-write history in front of your eyes, while you watched events, and turn things that were, into something that never was, he also meant the muck Paul Craig Roberts is crapping-on with here, as a mechanism to do it. Now chew yer grass and bah about how he's yer fucking superhero again.
If these ships had boat-shore missiles or weapons, I can easily see the need for Marines to take the boats. Were the boats in Crimea? That is now Russian Territory.
Nobody should be naive here. Russia is supporting the freedom fighters as I would. If Nothing Else, the marines would have neutralized weapons which would have caused a lot of extra civilian casualties. Putin would not authorize an operation like this unless it was to even up forces or to prevent ethic Russians from danger.
Bath House abandoned men in Libya.
Putin does not do that.
Bath House is a Coward, who cannot do anything nor has the power to do anything unless he is Ordered to do it.
Word is , and you can research it, Bath House was doped up and in the middle of a NAMBLA sex fling when our men were killed.
POTUS appears to be utterly indifferent to human suffering or protecting Human lives. He and his Capo, Hillary, insured the murder of Qadaffy.
The thought of this utterly amoral lesbian devoid of any conscience, as president guarantees WW3.
Fuck off idiot you're talking completely psychotic drivel, can't even stay on topic without trying to contrive a smorgasbord of excuses and special exceptions. Bloody fool.
Farce or sellout? Reminds me of a commercial, is it a breath mint or a candy mint answer is both. It is a farce and a sellout.
Obama told Putin he could be more flexible after his second election, Glad to see he is keeping that promise.