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Thousands Of Government Supporters Rally In Athens, Demand "Give Greece A Chance" - Live Feed
In another 'odd' event for Europe's status quo, for the second time in a week, tens of thousands of pro-government supporters have taken to the infamous Syntagma Square in Athens to ensure Syriza knows exactly what tomorrow's 'negotiations' are all about. With the latest poll showing Syriza in an even more dominant position nationally (45.4% vs ND's 18.4%) and Merkel's party looking like it will lose in a landslide in Hamburg local election, it seems the people of Europe have expressed their will. As Germany's Sinn suggests, Grexit would be best, "if Greece doesn't exit the euro, it will keep adding new debt it will be unable to repay." Perhaps that is why the rally cries of "Give Greece a chance" are so loud...
The people are moving more toweards Syriza...
Ifo’s Sinn Says Greek Euro Exit Would Be Best for Country, (as Bloomberg reports)
Previous policy to save Greece hasn’t worked “because it’s not making Greece competitive,” Bild-Zeitung reports, citing Hans-Werner Sinn, head of Germany’s Ifo economic institute.
Euro exit would boost economy, within 3 yrs unemployment would fall; Greece could re-enter euro zone later
If Greece doesn’t exit euro, it will keep adding new debt it won’t be able to repay Debt writedown is precondition for euro exit
Live Feed:
* * *
The crowds are growing as night falls ahead of tomorrow's critical negotiations...
#SolidarityWithGreece Anti-austerity pro-government demonstration in Athens Photo: REUTERS/Yannis Behrakis pic.twitter.com/xSy8UNkEFw
— euronews (@euronews) February 15, 2015
#Athens calling
#Europe is here
#Syntagma ???? #mazi
???? ???? ???? pic.twitter.com/B8SD7jUUsY— MisterCleO (@Diaplenomenos) February 15, 2015
RT @15MBcn_int: All We Are Saying... Give #Greece A Chance
#Syntagma sq Now
#Athens #Greece
#mazi
p/v @alfavita
pic.twitter.com/H5ryUHvUZa— Viva la causa! (@70torinoman) February 15, 2015
#Athens calling
#Europe is here
#Syntagma ???? #mazi pic.twitter.com/hedpXAecXO— MisterCleO (@Diaplenomenos) February 15, 2015
#Athens calling
#Europe is here
#Syntagma ???? #mazi pic.twitter.com/11oQRQ38gS— MisterCleO (@Diaplenomenos) February 15, 2015
Some messages for Europe...
????????, ????! Athens, now! pic.twitter.com/4iBbU0kXDP
— Leonidas Vatikiotis (@LeonidasV) February 15, 2015
MakisSinodinos :
"????" #lol #greeksolidarity #Athens #Syntagma pic.twitter.com/xcFsWG4qfi— ?????????? ??? (@movement_news) February 15, 2015
Europe may want to consider that back in 1985 the fate of the Eurozone was in Greek hands
Saturday, March 30, 1985
Western European leaders of the Common Market began crucial negotiations here Friday night with Prime Minister Andreas Papandreou of Greece, who has threatened to veto the entry of Spain and Portugal into the market next year.
After late-night talks with Mr. Papandreou, the leaders said early today that he stuck by his vow to block the two countries unless the other market members gave Greece nearly $2 billion in special agricultural aid.
Greece has said it needs the money to offset the effects on its economy of increased competition from Spanish and Portuguese products when those nations join the market, formally called the European Economic Community.
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All this has happened before, all this will happen again. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bOy3RNyWME
#Greekdebtdontmatter
I already figured out the problem. They are calling themselves "govt supporters". This will fail. They will go nowhere until they recognize the root of the problem, which is government, way too much of it
Government employees is probably the truth.
Scared to death they will have to look for a real job.
Real job?
LOL
Which job would that be?
Greece Population: 11 Million
#wedontgiveafuck
"Give Greece a Chance"
means, give us more money which we both know we won't pay back, while at the same time we refuse to pay back the money you previously gave us
What’s missing from this whole “Greek Conversation”?
Could it be a little history?
Was it ZH that informed me that it was a Greek government that got into bed with Goldman Sachs to “cook the books” in order to deceive the EU into thinking that Greece was a solvent & viable economic entity?
Shouldn’t the individuals responsible for that scam, who are responsible for the damage to so many people, be held accountable?
Where are the tens of thousands of protestors demanding such justice?
These few dollars you lose here today are going to buy you stories to tell your children and great-grandchildren. This could be one of the big moments in your life; don't make it your last!
John Dillinger
Think of the press as a great keyboard on which the government can play.
Joseph Goebbels
All we are saying, is give Greece a chance.
What does population have to do with producers vs. parasites?
Most of the prosperous and tolerant countries are small, without a lot of "cultural diversity."
kaiserhoff
Producers vs. parasites?...... Most prosperous and tolerant countries are small, without a lot of "cultural diversity."
Producers? Are you talking about movies? Or, are talking about manufacturing?
Cultural diversity? Are you talking about remaining rural?
Most prosperous and tolerant countries are small? Can you name some ‘prosperous and tolerant’ countries that are small… but not tolerant (rural unsophisticated) of cultural diversity (your words)?
Anyway, below is the list of the largest manufactures of the world.
Say that you were left in charge, which manufacture of the link below would you move to Greece?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_manufacturing_companies_by_revenue
Is there any point to what you just typed?
The concept of countries is bullshit anyway.
Bingo.
If I where Tsipras I would nationalize the whole country, Syriza has already halted privatization, in the gold mining sector for example.
Greece is trapped.
They don't own their money. Bankers do.
And they don't have resources, like Argentina.
Then, the money (Euros) that go to Greece is siphoned through the bank systems out of Greece.
Wow, I think this is all interesting but I don't see Greek exiting the Eurozone. I think it is all posturing to get a great deal for themselves, which I think they will. Germany will take it in the Keester on this one, they have NO CHOICE.
If I am wrong and Greek exits, Markets will collapse, and the ramifications are not imaginable. The derivatives will unleash a fury not seen before. Gold will do everything and more.
If Greece defaults, refuses to repay its debts, exits the Eurozone, and starts a new drachma ISDA will determine no event.
It's Spain waiting in the wings that will cause the markets to collapse. Germany could give a rats ass about Greece leaving. If Germany gives concessions to Greece, you can bet that the people of Spain and Italy will demand those same concessions. Then the shit hits the fan.
Are you talking about American government employees in a political economy sponsored by foreign government loans to the US Treasury?
All that matters: Is Greekexit good for American stocks?
"GIVE GREECE A CHANCE"!!!!!!!
WHO ARE THEY ASKING FOR PERMISSION!!!!
TAKE IT GREEK PEOPLE!!!
YOU DONT NEED PERMISSION
TAKE IT!!!
Give Greece a chance really means give us more free shit so we don't have to work very hard and can retire when we are 55.
It is just like a homeless looking guy (who may actually be homeless) at the stop light holding up a will work for food sign -
He doesn't want a job, he wants someone to give him cash so he doesn't have to work.
The banksters love people who fall for class warfare.
Realize that you are being distracted from the real enemy.
There are always people looking for a handout, yet they are much fewer when the common citizen has: liberty, right to self-determination, and government and industry that supports rather than parasitizes said citizenry.
What you are saying about class warfare may be true but it has nothing to do with what these protesters want -
They want someone to give them free shit. They may - in their hearts really believe they are entitled to more fee shit.
But don't think for a minute they really want a chance to work themselves out of the hole they have dug for themselves.
Just like the homeless guy with the will work for food sign -
Offer one of these fuckers a job sometime and see how that turns out. They will look at you like you are from Mars.
A job? WTF you smoking - I am making $80 an hour holding this sign.
Banks get free money for doing nothing other than usury.
Corporations and insurers get bailed out on the public dime, get tax breaks, and preferential treatment in the courts.
Since this is so in Greece, Europe, the U.S., and nearly everywhere - the real question becomes why should anyone have to work or pay their bills?
Most of these people are not looking for handouts or are to lazy to work, they just want a job and enough wage to be able to pay for basic expenses.
The wages got cut in half over there so now many people can't get by anymore because Europe is an epensive continent you see.
What would you do if your wage and pension got cut in half just like that to compensate the losses of some degenerate gamblers and suddenly you don't earn enough to pay your rent or buy food.
They have a pretty low standard of life over there compared to Northern Europe.
Greece has one of the lowest standards of living in the EU because it has one of the lowest level of productivity. All the QE, and debt write offs in the world aren't going to change that.
Here's a thought.
Real money.
No inflation.
All taxes are excise taxes - the rich wouldn't be able to use loopholes to avoid them -
Start work at 20 - work 40 years & save half of what you make - retire at 60 knowing your savings aren't being stolen by inflation - you're good to 100 years old, if you have any sense. If you don't make the century, your kids get what's left.
Fuck the theiving banksters & pols and whatever animal they rode in on.
I have no problem working for what I want.
I do have a probelm with half of it being stolen at the point of a gun.
Exactly. Take your freedom from the parasite bankers.
We have fascism in the West - Corporate Facism that extends from the banks out to the corporations and insurers who all have lackeys in government doing their will to oppress the common citizen.
Cronysociokleptofascistoligarchyism.
"Government Employees" = Passengers on Gravy Train
I get it: The goal is to get on that train and stay on. Human Nature, fine.
But in the interest of balance and national health, it is the non-Gov people who have to do their part and say loud, clear and incessantly:
"Thus far, and No More! Stop that train! Now get the f*ck off! Time to shorten that train, by half. Here, have a bike. Start pedaling and get fit. Livestrong, and no steroids."
In Griffin’s powerful book, The Creature From Jekyll Island, he explains the route the debt-repayment money takes. Originating from the Fed printing press, it goes directly to the IMF and proceeds to the bankrupted and bank- indebted nation whose politicians, taking their cut, then pay through their local banks to the big New York banks to prevent their possible bankruptcy or reduction in profits from their bad loans.
All paid for by the American taxpayers.
JR
Unfortunately, your choice has a credibility problem:
By Anthony Migchels: Ezra Pound, wrote ‘the Secrets of the Federal Reserve’, listing the banks owning the system. Ed Griffin then infamously plagiarized this book with his ‘the Creature of Jekyll Island’, to push the John Birch/Libertarian poison of the Gold Standard as a solution. We’re still dealing with this today, as seen in the ‘End the Fed’ movement.
Almost right. Eustace Mullins wrote it on request of Ezra Pound. Pound was imprisoned in an insane asylum at the time. He enticed (mentored probably a better word) Mullins into doing deep research at the Library of Congress (Mullins slept in the basement there while doing the research). Mullins book was titled "The Secrets of the Federal Reserve" and written in 1952. This was three years after meeting Pound's wife who then introduced him to Pound. Mullins was just 26 when he met Pound. Pound was 64. Griffin was 8 years younger than Mullins. Interestingly, Pound got sidewise with the US government (and the tribe) while living in Spain (during the Spanish Civil war) and broadcasting anti-American and anti-tribe topics ... i.e. calling a spade a spade. The Wikipedia article on Pound is probably the worst I have ever read ... if you are to believe anything Mullins himself wrote about Pound and his association with Pound ... which I do. You can listen to his recordings at http://www.eustacemullins.us/
Are you suggesting that the 'fiat standard' is a solution?
Are you suggesting the Fed is a good thing?
I'm not one of your down arrows BTW.
Waiting for a response first.
Hmmm. America is over $100 trillion dollars in debt!
Please, tell me who America is in debt to?
logicalman
The Fed is not the problem.
The problems are:
First: Money issued by the private sector. 97% of the dollar in circulation was issued by the Private Sector (Banks).
Second: Interest on top of money that doesn’t exist.
Third: Income tax. Primary purpose of taxes is to take some of your wages to pay bankers.
Here are two examples:
1) US Private Debt (Not including financials and government) = $42 trillion dollars / 316 million Americans = $133 thousand each man, woman, and child.
http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/z1/Current/accessible/l1.htm
Now, try to calculate, or, just guess, say, 3% interest rate?
Americans will be paying OVER One Trillion dollars in interest to the bankers, yearly.
On money the banks never had.
2) Americans, in 2014, paid $431 billion dollars to the bankers in interest.
So, if you divide $431 billion dollars paid in interest against Americans $1,715 trillion dollar paid in income taxes in 2014 = Americans gave about 25% to the banks, via income tax.
US Total Debt: $18,084,817,920,825.53
http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/debt/current
Interest Paid on US Debt in 2014: $431 Billion Dollars
https://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/ir/ir_expense.htm
US Total Taxes:
http://www.usgovernmentrevenue.com/yearrev2014_0.html
The solution: Sovereign Money
http://sovereignmoney.eu/
"Once a nation parts with the control of its currency and credit, it matters not who makes the nation's laws. ... Until the control of the issue of currency and credit is restored to government and recognized as its most sacred responsibility, all talk of the sovereignty of parliament and of democracy is idle and futile." -- Mackenzie King, Canadian Prime Minister 1935-1948.
Definition of Capitalism: "two years"
Derivation: Take $1M and capitalize a bank. Earn net 4% interest loaning deposits. Enjoy 10x leverage yielding 40% per year. 40% doubles in two years so your $1M is $2M after two years. Reclaim your $1M leaving the other $1M to do it again.
How much do you, the capitalist, have invested after two years? Zero!!!!!
Capitalism is a confidence racket. Those who are privileged to engage in it have a two year risk. From then on it is riskless!
Shhhhh!!! Its still a secret that America is also bankrupt
pssst. the fed will backstop any disturbance with trillions, even enuf to bail derivatives. they can freeze the markets, (apply turnaquet-sp), reduce blood flow and get blood from the fed-lots of blood, a zeplin full if neccesary. folks nothing will get out of control, because they are in control. what didn't you learn from 08. ben, being interviewed on 60 minutes explained all this which was later proved by records from the fed.
Bloodfromturnips.org
But there are those pesky derivative thingies scattered all over the planet.
The debt is not owed by the Greek people.
In international law, odious debt, also known as illegitimate debt, is a legal theory that holds that the national debt incurred by a regime for purposes that do not serve the best interests of the nation, should not be enforceable. Such debts are, thus, considered by this doctrine to be personal debts of the regime that incurred them and not debts of the state. In some respects, the concept is analogous to the invalidity of contracts signed under coercion.
Are we now supposed to follow the link in order to find out what you mean, asshole?
Or, you could use your lil brain to assume what's there...your choice, bitch
Are you working for the government? Sounds like the logic of a low-ranked clerk who believes just because he accidentally knows (something otherwise completely unimportant but in this context relevant) everybody else not knowing is ignorant.
WTF are you talking about??? Since you are too lazy (or scared) to click a fookin link before hurling insults, I'll just tell you it's a clip from a TV show called Battlestar Galatica. You are probably not traveled enough to have ever heard of it, but I'll give you a pass since you're Italian.
It is sunday. I forgive you, my son. Be happy.
#enominepatrietspiritussancti
Take a hint Tspiras.
Let it burn.
What Greece needs is a new Riot Dog!!
I need more riot dog!! I gotta have more riot dog!! I've gotta a fever....and the only prescription is more riot dog!!
"Everybody's talkin' 'bout bagism, fagism, this-ism, that-ism
All we are saying, is give Greece a chance"
Great Lennon song.
#auditthefed
Yet another victim of an infamous "lone nut." It's an epidemic.
He was a talented, charismatic guy who could put 1,000,000 people into the streets.
John Lennon was an inebriated PATRONIZING overrated POS. His draft dodging fanbase bought halliburton shares and forced people into war for a survival job?
Sorry he was shot, but he's not really that great of a guy. His fanbase irritates me.
Thanks for that. John accomplished even more than I'd ever imagined!
This was not meant as fan-boy talk, just a statement of fact.
I still don't see the point in auditing it. Just get rid of it, it is not fit to exist in a 'free' society. But if you guys really think an audit will atually help that along, then go ahead, I suppose
as if audit something or someone ever changed anything... in an audit you present the data your wanna present.... the shit is always hidden or in the paper destroy machine bucket.
It matters less who is audited - it matters more who does the auditing, to paraphrase Joe Stalin.
DON'T hesitate for a second.
Be bold. Be violent. Be uncompromising.
Appropriate everything. Use everything. IF it has been said or seen or felt it has power of thought.
The culture and the language do not belong to tptb! The culture and the language belongs to all of us.
IF it was stolen steal it back again every day and twice at night.
Punk media and Gonzo Journalism and Dadaism...
Twist the words as they have and show them that their means of propaganda can be turned against them with even greater strength of force. Re-brand the imagery. Redefine the narrative.
Much respect!!
Is that a bitcoin belt buckle?
New Lennon (posthumous) tune: "Give the Audit a chance"
Tyler, Banzi, How about this T-Shirt being sold by ZH?
All I am saying... Give this t-shirt a chance. I'd buy a couple. With BTC or LTC.
I remember that guy.....Jesus in a Rolls Royce.
Is there any faction in Greece or Germany whose agenda isn't just some variation of trying to live at the expense of someone else?
No.
It is looking that way. No comments have offered any defense of either. They have only offered misdirection "look over there!"
I think part of the problem with the comments is that unlike most ZHers, some ZHers are like the many progressives I talk with who simply can't get their head around how voluntary exchange is different than living at the expense of others - a distinction that is crystal clear to most ZHers and all stripes libertarians.
It's not just Greece or Germany. We also have tons of those folks in the Military Industrial Complex right here in the US of A. Also Big Pharma, Insurance, the Financial Sector, etc...
The major economic reset looms globally. Greece is just this moment's spear point. More coming soon.
Sir, are you trying to imply the free sh*t army is more than just the EBT card people? Heresy
The biggest free-shitters are banksters and government.
Personally, I don't want free shit - just honest exchange without someone in the middle stealing from both sides.
True, but evasive. We're talking about Greece and Germany, so I take it you do not know of any factions in Greece or Germany who are not trying to live at the expense of others.
You left out Big Government and the College Industrial Complex (which by the way mostly made up of Maserati Marxists, Lambourghni Liberals and Porsche Progressives).
The list is long. I did not aim for all-inclusiveness.
Those are nice liberal car strawmen. Do you know any personally or have any pertinent examples? I hear this kind of thing all the time, and even spend time on a university campus now and then, yet never see a Maserati, Lamborghini or Porsche in the parking lots.
What do you think the US fiat petrodollar is all about, if not living off the resources of others?
True, but evasive. We're talking about Greece and Germany, so I take it you do not know of any factions in Greece or Germany who are not trying to live at the expense of others.
I think you miss the point.
It seems to be that those who don't want to work go into government and use the 'legal' system as their method of extracting what they need from people who actually produce something that other people want. The banksters love this, as it enables them to do likewise and use what they gain to bribe the pols.
Lobbying is just another term for bribery
Evasive.
A more relevant statement would have been that the people of all factions in Germany and Greece, even those who work and produce, are trying to use government to live at the expense of others.
Not evasive at all - just removing the (fictional) boundaries you put around it.
It's global.
True words.
uuuh, if you could spare a quarter I'd be happy to google that
Such voluntary exchange, offering value for value - voluntarily, is not living at the expense of someone else.
"Is there any faction in Greece or Germany whose agenda isn't just some variation of trying to live at the expense of someone else?" - Future Jim @ 12:32
Incorrect or non-useful question. It is the very nature of all life forms that, in order to survive, we take in whatever free nutrients or energy that we can. Luckily Mother Nature built in a Fail-safe Mechanism: "All matter and energy is merely borrowed. It is always returned -- both partially (on a daily basis) and eventually completely (death)."
I therefore submit that... "It is the function of all members of a society to be active participants in the CHECKS & BALANCES of a system they have set up. Without that feedback & control loop, you get... Cancer, disease, death." Fig. and lit. speaking.
I rather suspect, that in the 1980s, the US started removing its Checks & Balances, under the pretext/smokescreen of "Deregulation", which was going to lead to a new, GOP-led economic boom. Yeah, well, NPK and Roundup also does wonders for crops -- for a while.
In a finite system, you can NOT have unconstrained compound growth, which is what Fed capitalism and its fiat currency/debt and FRB demands. We, as a nation, got duped by Banksters and TPTB. And so have the Europeans and Developing Nations. We have deluded ourselves, and deceived the World -- while preached the peace and prosperity of our Monetary System (of diabolical servitude).
My $0.02 worth.
"the pretext/smokescreen of "Deregulation", which was going to lead to a new, GOP-led economic boom"
So those darned Republicans are thwarting the solution, which is more government ...
In a free-market, regulating ones enemies or competittors is an attempt to live at their expense.
Every variation of more governmet is a variation of living at the expense of someone else.
For example both the existance of the Fed and its ability to outcompete others is a result of more government, such as more regulation.
"In a finite system"
Socialism is indeed a finite system, and the problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people's money. Whereas. a free-market makes the pie continuously bigger through innovation and efficiency.
Won't you consider promoting voluntary exchange instead of promoting just another variation of living at the expense of others?
Langley CIA Headquarters is on lockdown, according to Breitbart.
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/02/14/cia-headquarters-in-l...
Four journalists dead in a 24 hour span, more banker "suicides".... If there are bodies in the CIA halls then it might just be GO time.
Either that or the film crew is on-site, filming the next false-flag. I don't know which is worse.
There was on the NYT site today that was a live interview of Snowden by Carr the day he died.
Things are happening hour to hour now. Keep a bottle close by.
they just put a jew in charge over there (CIA)..............
http://forward.com/articles/214670/david-cohen-becomes-the-cias-financia...
''David Cohen, whose appointment as deputy director of the CIA was announced in January, will be the highest-ranking Jew now in the spy agency’s hierarchy — but not the first to reach its upper heights. In 1995, President Clinton appointed John Deutch, a scientist and Energy Department official, to head the agency. Deutch served in this position less than two years.''
Read more: http://forward.com/articles/214670/david-cohen-becomes-the-cias-financial-batman/#ixzz3Rq3w8RMithis asshole helped to write the Patriot act as well.........he is the enemy
''Among other things, he was in charge of drafting part of the USA Patriot Act, a controversial law that expanded the government’s authority to reach into citizens’ records.....''
Read more: http://forward.com/articles/214670/david-cohen-becomes-the-cias-financial-batman/#ixzz3Rq7IhK5UGlobal Zionists have an army of Sayanim* dispersed all over the world.
Although many Jews are not Global Zionists or even another flavor of Zionists, you can be sure that all the ones in positions of Wealth, Power or Influence are. It's a Prerequisite.
It is useful (and constructive to the narrative) to learn the different types of creatures in the NY and DC zoo of actors, players, dupes and fools. Please call each critter by its right name, to avoid confusion or digression in the debates.
* http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/Sayanim
Precision in language is important!
One term, however, fits all of those on your list - Psychopaths.
Maybe ISIS flew a missile into Langley! Time to give up some more liberties....
I'm gonna need a bigger tin hat...,
but you're right. Some powerful volk are very nervous.
We never leave the ranch without the tin Stetson.
"Four journalists dead in a 24 hour span, more banker "suicides"...."
Dead men tell no tales. "Conscience Cleansing" of Useful Fools (Suckers) who have served their purpose and who knew where the skeletons are buried.
Press release:
After an audit of the stash, 4g of finest Bolivian Marching Powder was found to be missing. No one leaves alive until it is returned.
Obviously the protestors are all Kremlin agents! :)
The Stasi Troika don't want to give you a chance. They want to keep their jack boots pressed firmly down on your throats or wedged up your arse.
Check your gold reserves in the vault as i have an uneasy feeling it's tungsten with a gold spray. If it is real call Vlad to send someone in to pick it up before Draghi & Goldman come calling.
Bullshit! It is the Greek oligarchs, government employees and welfare recipients with their boot on the throats of the common man or woman in Greece.
The war is not over if there is a Grexit. Do you think that the kept oligarchs, governmeent pensioners and employees and welfare recipients are going to give up "their" benefits without a fight???
Lets see what happens when they go after the unkept net taxpayers who have already had to set up one of the largest black market economies in the world to avoid these socialist government thugs.
If I follow your reasoning : its the Oligarchs, the government employees and the welfare recipients who have the boots on the throats of the people...and there is also a huge black market economy; all the while you call Syriza the socialist government thugs...
So, those who don't pay taxes phuck those out of jobs who phuck the Oligarchs' wallets who phuck the common man and anybody who tries to put some ORDER in this anarchy, by raising taxes, by persecuting Oligarchs, by cutting down the black market is the designated government thug ?
What sort of country would you consider efficient economically? One without any local population, a virgin land for Oligarchs and outsiders to loot and profit from without restraints?
If we could oNLY get rid off all those mouths to feed in all those countries, life would be so easy !
Hey Presto, lets start those ovens and those war games ! Debt is linked to human presence.
No human presence, no debt. Lol, its that simple! Those who are owed just walk in and it Appaloosa!
Winner takes all ! Just like those HSBC bankers and diamond mine owners of Central African Repub.
Babbaloosa
You said it, your avatar loved it.
You are nothing but a piece of shit socialist. Do us all a favor and go kill yourself you stupid fucking moron. Come try to take the money I earn for me and my family you stinking pig. You will die.
The government does that to you EVERY DAY.
They are stinking pigs, thouh, have to give you that.
Greece would be the Cuba of Southern Europe if they went back to the Drachma. I mean that in a good way.
Can you imagine the amount of capital inflows that would move into Greece with the currency devaluation. The tourism and agro. sectors would go parabolic!
I don't think European tourists will be flocking to Greece if they default and leave the rest of European taxpayers holding the bag. No matter how cheap the currency.
Wrong. Europeans aren't stupid. They Know Greece will never repay their debt. Europeans will see it as discount on their "good will".
Oh,they will. In their millions. And then Spain and Portugal will feel the effects....and want the same.
You reckon the average European is any more moral or smarter than the average Yank? I don't think so.
You speak as if humans have morals when seeking discounts on anything including vacations.
Exhibit A French carriers for Russia
Exhibit B NJ oil purchases from ISIS
Exhibit C (I could go all day)
Professor Sinn is absolutely right: peoples interest in Greece is best served with a GREXIT. However there are two problems: (1) EU politicians seem to be immediately stricken with a kind of "political ebola" as soon as they hear the word "GREXIT" (no surprise!) (2) Purportedly the greek population themselves would prefer to stay in the EURO treadmill and Syriza should undertake some efforts to confirm this by new polls and provided it should be necessary, educate the people so that they understand the benefits of Drachme2 and of independence from the EURO-ponzi scheme
Grexit is only possible if all member states including Greece agree, but the new government does not want to exit.
The international socialists in Brussels are now hoping the Golden Dawn boys will rise up in Greece ...
"Give us your bureaucracies, your nanny statism and your bank loans, we yearn for it all to be interest Fareeeee!"
Doesn't quite have the same ring to it for some reason ;-)
Protests and demands are more fun than work.
What if Greece had focused their energy on making high price consumer products like autos, appliances, electronics? SOMETHING.
Not in my case.
I do something I enjoy for a living.
Protests are boring, often cold and wet, and occaionally involve being manhandled by men in uniform - I know this from personal experience.
Dirty job, but someone has to do it.
Give us your printing presses, your magic electronic digits, your billionairs and your 1%. We long to print our way to wealth like the great Obama!
We can afford this because we will simply shaft the citizens with mandatory insurance payments that can never be collected on. Next we will ban all buisness startups by charging millions for upfront carbon tax deposits. Let's Golf!
If what is being 'printed' or entered as digits on computer hard drives is real money, what is the reason for taxation?
supplemental income
What are they silly. Nobody pays debt back these days.
They only pay it back if it's under $1 billion.
It's under [Sec.]Jon Corzine rule.
I'm fed up with Greeks' demands. If they don't agree on becoming a fiscally responsible country, they can go screw themselves... And we all know it won't be "back in 3 years", ZH should stop fostering this myth! Grexit would be horrendously painful... but the choice is up to them.
I'm fully aware it could be a Lehman-style event: I don't care any longer. Greeks got to learn some manners, either the gentle way or the hard way.
Grexit will be horrible for the lenders.
Because they have to write off their loan before it can be fiddled into EU-taxpayer debt.
You know that almost all debt is held at the ECB?
we can survive losing some billions. But can Greece afford to loose market access and an ultimate lender...?
"we can survive losing some billions."
YES WE CAN ... only the interest on US debt is over several billions a day,most likely in the double digits ... in any case can always type a few more trillions ...
I appreciate your sense of being exasperated or fed up. That's natural.
But in the case of the Greeks, I submit that is wiser to proceed on Fundamental Interests and Principles, rather than on one's level of emotional or psychic energy in the tank.
That being said... I'd argue that Greece and all the PIIGS need to do more than just "leave"; they need to completely re-invent themselves as a nation and society. Greece needs new intellectual giants, doers, movers and shakers, and not a rehash of what was. (As do we.)
Without a better Vision, better Plan and decent Execution (to said Plan), they (and we) will be no better off.
p.s. After my original 15:44 post, I read yogibear's comment below, and am reminded of the "Iceland solution" which many of us have stated before.
Fiscally responsible country?
Almost couldn't type for laughing!
Greece should settle for a complete write off of all the debt exit the EU nationalize the countries assets and start their own gold backed Drachma 2.0.
The ECB just started to print more then a €1000 billion so they themselves can fill the holes in the banks budget with that currency.
One of my friends brothers married a Greek girl he met on holiday there about 15 yrs ago or so.
She is from a big family, apparently the salt of the earth, nice and very friendly, have met some of them and my friend says that the entire extended family in Greece have one thing to say to any fuckers who say they have been irresponsible.
Including cunts like you.
And that is fuck off, fuck you fuck your mothers and fuck all who come. no fucking bankers no fucking corrupt EU arseholes, and no fucking stinking IMF maggots are going go get fucking swat from them.
They would rather burn their houses down than let the thieving cunts take what they built over generations.
When the day dawns that someone asks them if they want to be included in fucking ponzi criminal bankster inspired rip off loans and they agree then they might consider honoring such a loan.
Tell the cunts in Brussels to see the corrupt crony cunts who signed the loan agreements if they want it back
Until then I can only pass the message on,, Fuck you
please have your sister-in-law&family read this: http://www.vanityfair.com/business/features/2010/10/greeks-bearing-bonds-201010
if there's anyone corrupt in this story, it's nobody but a Greek (politicians, accountants, authorithies, companies, etc...). They bankrupted Greece, not the EU!
Greece needs to do the opposite of what the ECB wants.
The people and government of Greece need to do an Iceland, raise their middle finger and tell the banksters to eat the debt and go to hell.
Jailing the banksters like Iceland would be icing on the cake.
When was the last time you had a relative arrested and jailed?
I learned something about the etymology of the word, "Bankrupt" theother day from Susie Dent, a lexicographer known for her appearances in Countdown. It comes from the days when the money changers, lenders and other traders put up their stalls in town markets in banks (rows) of tables. When one of them went insolvent, people would literally break the banks of tables into pieces to make sure that person could not work there again, hence the bank-rupt origin.
These days it's not the banks that get broken asunder when they are insolvent, but everyone else to bail them out, then forced to borrow more useless "money", add more debt, and service them for generations. The "Grexit", if it happens, is going to be one hell of an orgy of breaking banks the old fashioned way. I'm hoping it will happen (Gird your loins!) but very doubtful that it will. The squid is more than likely to detonate a nuke in Athens than allow their dominoes to fall. There are some questions as to how the greek bonds were sold under "English law" and therefore open to asset seizures on default, but I think that's just a side show to the tsunami of derivatives tied to them.
Most likely scenario is more of the same - bringing Greece to the brink of default followed by a save that fudges the status quo and giving every fund manager whose spreads on default risk have risen to massive profits and bonuses all round. But then again, this might be it. This might be the actual moment when the villagers come out with pitforks and torches to break the banks of the moneychanger's tables in to pieces.
Good post.
That was a great comment, and history lesson. The Greek situation is a no win scenario for the EU.
If Greece goes it (caugh*caugh*)alone then then you have the soveriegn debt issues. I can assure you that I'll be investing in Greece if they leave the Euro Group.
If the EU continues to kick the can and ponzify Greece with Unicorn feces(ECB), Italy,Spain,France,Cyprus Ect. will come looking for adjusments to their payment and GDP schedules.
The Technofarts in Brussels have screwed themselves into the event horizon that is the EU Black Hole.
Hail the Derivatives Revolution !! It was meant to diversify risk and instead passed it on to you and me. Problem is Congress made derivatives legal and the Fed finances its bailout leaving us with the tab in future years. Not exactly a rallying cry for the villagers. A more lkely scenario is an unanticipated Black Swan event such as bank scandal, assasination or Syzira sticking to its mandate
cue early morning smash of the only 2 forms of REAL money at lunchtime in Asia and continuing into the London dump...
and still more will be stacked...
DEATH TO THE MONEYCHANGERS.
Greece and Haiti .... should merge into a new Cariterranean Union .... think of the synergy in merging their .... foreign aid begging boiler rooms .... a plead for every need !
Do you know anything about the history of Haiti?
I hope the Greeks know they have a lot of support. They aren't the only ones bankrupt. Every country is. Please let this be the change that starts the change for all of us in the right direction.
So GREXIT already! Why are you even talking to those snakes who will try to do nothing but con you again?
Because they don't want to give up their free money, and they don't want their economy to collapse.
The ultimate agreement will be this- Greece promises not to make any noises about how they aren't actually paying anything on the debt, Europe agrees to not make any public noises about how Greece is paying on the debt. The only goal Europe has is to not have Greece openly default or be given an explicitly stated writedown. That is the only goal- to not have to account for the bad debts on a balance sheet. Extend and pretend as it has been.
I can tell you Spanish Podemos is watching very very closely. Whatever is given to Syriza, Podemos will demand in a few months.
All of this reminds me of when Bernanke testified in front of Congress and said that the big banks had to be bailed out because they were "systemtically important."
No one bothered to ask the obvious questions:
Oddly similar were the speeches from the CEOs of banks who said that they needed to give out bonuses to "retain the talent."
No one bothered to ask the obvious questions at that time either:
There is only one thing that the Greek people must do: Abolish the banks.
That should be their message and their mission.
You lot will love this. You know the fucking fat pasty faced cunt who is Prime Minister here of the child abusers of Parliament blame the fucking impossible debt on?
Dig this, fat people. Fat people of this land will have their benefits removed if said fat people dont seek help and pay the national, un-payable debt off, the lazy fat bastards what they are. These obese fuckers are the cause of all our collective problems. How dare they alter the narrative and expose these child molesting cunts, when its far easier, and think the public will believe that fat people are the problem.
I do believe these child rapists could be clutching at straws because not a man on this planet could blame some 500 trillion of debt on fat people. These cunts are running out of options, lets keep it like that and continue the wake up of our fellow men.
Fucking down right priceless? Pick on fat folk? What about skinny cunts like me then?
Mint
;-)
I was born in UK, but now live in Canada.
Always good to read your stuff. If I say things like that here, I get funny looks!
Like all magicians, the Parliamentary Child Abusers want you to look at the hand they want you to watch, while the other is fucking with your perception, among other things.
I'm a skinny fuck too.
Such a twisted paradigm & purposely done. Greece exit is the best soultion for the planet. Break up the consolidation of power of the EU / NATO. Whether or not they join BRICS & exit NATO remains to be seen. Sea Change coming not matter what as we are too far past the rubicon.
YAY!! Communists and NAZIs parade on the streets for more free money! Gotta love it!!! Although I'd love to see them break the EU!!!
EIDT: What's with all the downvotes, Greece is toast, they lived off other peoples money long enough. And Fuck the EU too.
ZH and CNBC both filled with statist stooges. Whoda thunk it???