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Latest Greek Negotiations Fall Apart; Risk Slides After Greece Says "Won't Take Orders On Bailout"
UPDATE: *EU FINANCE MINISTERS' TALKS WITH GREECE OVER FOR TODAY, GREECE SAYS WON'T TAKE ORDERS ON BAILOUT
EU President Jeroen Dijsselbloem to explain just how far apart they are now...
* * *
Dijsselbloem headlines:
- *DIJSSELBLOEM SAYS MINISTERS WERE DISAPPOINTED BY WEEKEND TALKS
- *DIJSSELBLOEM SAYS BEST WOULD BE EXTENSION FOR GREEK PROGRAM
- *DIJSSELBLOEM SAYS EXTENSION WOULD ALLOW FLEXIBILITY FOR GREECE
- *DIJSSELBLOEM SAYS EXTENSION WOULD INVOLVE COMMITMENTS
- *DIJSSELBLOEM SAYS WOULD NEED AGREEMENT TO ROLL BACK MEASURES
- *DIJSSELBLOEM SAYS WE STAND READY TO CONTINUE DISCUSSIONS
- *DIJSSELBLOEM SAYS IT'S UP TO GREECE TO DECIDE ON EXTENSION
- *DIJSSELBLOEM SAYS COULD BE EXTRA EUROGROUP ON FRIDAY
- *DIJSSELBLOEM SAYS WE HAVE THIS WEEK, BUT THAT'S ABOUT IT
So the 10-day ultimatum was just extended by 40%? Clearly The EU is worried.
* * *
Well that didn't last long. It seems - just as earlier in the week - the ability for either side in this Euro-system death match game of chicken to find any common ground to even start negotiations remains lost:
- GREEK GOVT OFFICIAL SAYS THAT "IN THESE CIRCUMSTANCES, THERE CANNOT BE A DEAL TODAY"
- EUROGROUP DISCUSSED "UNREASONABLE", "UNACCEPTABLE" DRAFT TEXT INSISTING ON EXTENDING BAILOUT
Full statement (and rejected phrase) (h/t @EdConwaySky)
* * *
The reaction...
* * *
EURUSD is tumbling and S&P Futures are falling fast.
and Greek Bank Bonds had been hinting at problems all day...
Further comments:
- *GREEK GOVT OFFICIAL SAYS NO AGREEMENT POSSIBLE AT EUROGROUP
- *GREEK GOVT OFFICIAL SAYS EU PROPOSALS `ABSURD,' `UNACCEPTABLE'
Greek govt official says in e-mailed note that Eurogroup Chairman Jeroen Dijsselbloem’s proposals for the country to observe its existing bailout commitments are “absurd,” “unacceptable.”
#Greek govt says text presented at #eurogroup was a reversal of agreement @atsipras & @J_Dijsselbloem made last Thursday.
— Peter Spiegel (@SpiegelPeter) February 16, 2015
According 2 draft I got, #Eurogroup called for "best use of existing built-in flexibility in the current programme." Hence #Greece objection
— Peter Spiegel (@SpiegelPeter) February 16, 2015
A Greek government official said that a draft text presented to euro zone finance ministers meeting in Brussels on Monday spoke of Greece extending its current bailout package and as such was "unreasonable" and would not be accepted.
Without specifying who put forward the text to the meeting chaired by Dutch Finance Minister Jeroen Dijsselbloem, the official said: "Some people's insistence on the Greek government implementing the bailout is unreasonable and cannot be accepted.
"Those who keep returning to this issue are wasting their time. Under such circumstances, there cannot be a deal today."
* * *
So this is the next key event:
Over in Frankfurt, the ECB Governing Council will meet on Wednesday.
Close attention will be paid to any decision the governors take on Greece and its lenders' access to central-bank liquidity. Already, Greek banks, which have been hurt by an outflow of deposits due to the country's political and financial uncertainty over the last two months, can no longer use their government's bonds to get liquidity from the ECB, depending instead on more expensive emergency funding from their own central bank.
But of course that still leaves the uncomfortable post-Eurogroup press conference and statement which we suspect will be even more uncomfortable than last week's for Dijsselbloem.
"GREECE WILL NOT CROSS RED LINES IT HAS DRAWN" all board! pic.twitter.com/zWqhbqLAoT
— Mr. K. H&S (@ECantoni) February 16, 2015
Zee Germans are not happy and, as KeepTalkingGreece reports, are now suggesting Tsipras replace varoufakis at the negotiating table...
An SPD politician from Merkels’ social-democrat coalition suggested s that Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras should replaces Finance Minister Yanis Varoufakis as he apparently creates lots of confusion, German politicians cannot understand.
SPD executive board member, Joachim Poß, wrote in an e-mail for his party colleagues:
“Greek Finance Minister Varoufakis has best demonstrated with his performance until now, that he is not up to the demands of such an office. In the interest of the Greek people and in view of the difficult situation, Prime Minister Tsipras should consider to replace Mr Varoufakis with a political experienced, realistic-efficient person.” (Handelsblatt)
I suppose Varoufakis is an overwhelming challenge for some petty-minded politicians. He is much more than they can take. Or they just want a Yes-Man.
* * *
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That depends on what the meaning of "is" is.
Breaking : A four-month “moratorium” proposal not accepted in the eurogroupAdvice for Greece is the same advice for the everyone else in the Great-Central-Bankster-Fiat-Printing-Scam - You have nothing to lose but your chains. (and I'm not even a commie).
you may not be a commie, but i think you were just added to Obama's "extremist" list.
"Rise like lions after slumber
In unvanquishable numbers
Shake your chains to earth like dew
Which in sleep had fallen on you.
Ye are many -- they are few." The Mask of Anarchy, Percy Bysshe Shelley, 1819.
The Mask of Anarchy, Percy Bysshe Shelley, 1819.
The Brits are stupendous. Magnificent. Remarkable. Truly and always.
HAIR CUT TIME.
Technically these are Central Banks.
cyprus is the template no?
Cyprus is nothing but retirement villages and post office boxes. Nothing to do with the great country of Greece.
Still don't hear anything about them actually leaving the EU. Seems to me that they are OK with feeding from the soup kitchen, they are just negotiating better tasting food and larger portions. Same as it ever was!
They will not leave EU even if they are forced to drop the Euro.
Whether you support Greece or not, it is very refreshing to finally see someone tell the bankers to eat shit!
Yeah, I guess so. Don't hold your breath for a happy ending, though. Communists strangle their own mothers when they get hungry enough. And Greece has some very 'hungry' days ahead of her.
Don't underestimate Russian bridging loans.
So you've tried Greek food in Greece ?
I like the propaganda "falling-off-a-cliff" chart: a one-fifth of one percent drop constitutes a 'disaster'.
Nearly as powerful as one of Bill Clinton's farts.
Yeah. I agree. It's premature and due to the scale a fairly meaningless drop.
Wake me up when the S&P stays below 2000
Wow, 0,4% drawdown for futures, it's a bear market !
I hope some big French/German bank fails tomorrow. S&P 500 to 500 here we come.
Honestly, what a stupid f_cking soap opera...
Getting the distinct impression this game of attrition will drag on, but end poorly. Today's developments cast serious doubt over a happy ending.
Are they really? The bankers would be wounded from a total Greek default. They are only negotiating better terms and the E.U. Gubmints will make the banks whole anyway. The bankers will be just fine as always.
this is exactly what i said would happen monday, bc the u.s ''markets'' are closed.
dont worry though, late tonight we will here how there is progress on a deal and futures will shoot up 20 s&p pts on this bullshit.
Indeed. Notice how 'flat-lined' precious metals are when U.S. Markets are closed. No secret where the daily manipulation comes from.
what manipulation? its just a coincidence, no way our very honest bankers who are such great people, caring so much about the well being of the citizens and only wanting to help us out, would ever do something so wrong like that.
SARC/
Yes, small markets like gold and silver can be manipulated.
Investing in commodities that can be manipulated is simply buy and hope. You are at the mercy of the PTB.
And no one will want physical if things collapse. You can't eat it, drink it or shoot it.
Its funny how these things are always arranged to take place on non-trading days / weekends ^^ . . .
Everyone in their right mind knows there will be no deal ever... Greece is simply trying to leave the Euro and return to a currency model that works for its population, it has to play these political posturing games in order to justify its actions . . . you have to show Europe just what kind of bad guy Germany and the ECB are so that they can all leave the Euro with Greece, because if everyone leaves the Euro that pretty much leaves the Nazi German govt holding the bag.... and thats the plan. . . no one wants to pay back these fraudulent govt loans . . . and no one can . . . so the only option is to leave the Euro and destroy it so that no one has to pay it back at all.
The MSG Greece is exposing to the world is "look at how they deal with us, how do you think they will deal with you???!" all the smaller nations in the Euro are in the same boat as Greece, they have been scammed into taking loans they did not need in order to fuel social programs that only serve to endebt their respective nations and strip their people of real productive assets so that Germans and Bankers can benefit, now the game is unwinding and the Germans are shitting their pants and trying to conduct damage control and save face . . . but Greece wont have it, they are out for blood and want to expose this arrangement for what it really is . . . a scam.
Didn't i say a couple of days ago that Germany has been the EU leech.
And i still believe that.
Germany has been always a net contributor to the Euro zone.
More like the primary beneficiary.
You can't just look at balance sheets.
You have to look at the overal situation.
Greece before the Euro.
Healthy youth employement, Healthy farms and farmers diversity in the economy.... low debt, there was actually a govt surpluse before the Euro implementation.
Supermarkets in Greece were... Greek owned super markets... the shelves were stocked with Greek products.
Govt debt was under-control ... a non-issue.
Greece after the Euro
A government that has been taken over by foreign bankers (Ex-Goldman people).
A troika writing the laws of Greece by Fiat
All the Greek markets closed down and were replaced with German Super Markets that sell . . . German products to Greeks at inflated prices in Euros... and whats worst , what little "Greek" Products did make it to store shelves were simply things like Greek Olive Oil which was shipped to Germany, taxed, Bottled, Taxed again, Sent back to Greece to be sold to Greeks in German Supermarkets...
All the utilities are being sold off one by one .. . to german interests....
All the islands are being sold off by the corrupt government ... to german interests...
60% Youth unemployement
What happened in reality
Germany has quite literally plundered Greece under the Euro.
All the money "loaned" to Greece went right back to the Ecb/Germany the next day.... the corrupt officials of Germany and the ECB were using Greece as a Debt Whore to launder freshly printed money back to themselves.... nothing more nothing less.
All the while the German Tax payer is saying "WTF IS GOING ON" and the German media was playing it off like "Greeks are lazy and they all own land" and The german people were like "wtf I don't own shit lets go take Greek peoples houses" and then Tax collectors showed up in Greece and started trying to Tax people based on how many windows their "house" had... (lol they came to my grandmas farm and counted the windows on her barn ) till she threatened to shoot them and they got off her farm.
Lol the entire situation is just funny and everyone fighting against Greece just has no grasp on the reality of the situation or what is really going on.
Greece did not borrow SHIT, it was other interests borrowing money THROUGH GREECE FOR PRIVATE GAINS.... its like your neighbor forcing you at gun point to take out a mortgage against your house and to give him all the money while you are left on the hook with the debt . .. thats what the EURO was doing to Greece in a nut-shell....
I agree that the Euro was a failure. Maybe more a failure by intention.
That Germany vs. Greece thing is just stupid propaganda. It's about the 1% fleecing the 99% via financial instruments. You can't blame the German people that all the corrupt greek politicians, greedy greek oligarchs with the help of their Wall St and City of London buddies who looted their own people transfer the booty to Germany (as can be seen on Target II balances) and other places in the world.
How is it Germany's fault that it builts some of the best cars and machinery in the world and the whole fucking world is lining up to buy "Made in Germany" from Anchorage to Zanzibar and from Auckland to Vladivostok? German producers have already outsourced production to other parts of the world. Sorry, there's no Porsche plant in Greece. Doesn't stop the rich Greek oligarchs from zooming around in a brand new Panamera.
The issue is not Germany vs. Greece or Germany vs. Rest of Europe. This is complete bullshit! The issue is the Euro which has created imbalances in the standard of living across Europe and in EVERY country. There is poverty in Germany as well because part of Germany's recent economic success is subsidized slave labor. Low unemployment but at what cost to the people?
The Euro is the banksters ultimate weapon of mass destruction. It needs to go away and the old currency order needs to be reinstated. There is simply no way around this. Maybe 2, 3 or more European nations can agree on a fiscal union before they restart their common currency.
While we're at it, bring back sound financials and to hell with GAAP funny money accounting. Let them blow up the derivatives tomorrow and we can rebuild our future and our children's future with sound money.
Why is Greece even sitting down at the table? Posturing?
Greece appears to be in the drivers seat. It already knows the outcome it desires...just put out a statement of its position and get on with rebuilding the country.
So at the end of the day Greece can say
"I tried to negotiate with you and structure a give and take payment system" you give a little I give a little... but "you were not reasonable" so "you leave me no choice".
No matter what The European Councel does, the ECB and IMF are taking a haircut.
"Its funny how these things are always arranged to take place on non-trading days / weekends ^^ . . ."
Oh really? Please tell the SNB about your arrangements...
this is exactly what i said would happen monday, bc the u.s ''markets'' are closed.
dont worry though, late tonight we will here how there is progress on a deal and futures will shoot up 20 s&p pts on this bullshit.
SNAP. My thoughts exactly. Very rare indeed to see the MSM abandoning their "everything is awesome" mantra and hype up how we are on the edge of a cliff.
Methinks this is all a set up for the Dow to roar up 400 points Tuesday once a deal is announced.
Methinks this is all a set up for the Dow to roar up 400 points Tuesday once a deal is announced.
exactly. very sad but true. its so sickening, bc the ''market'' has pretty much said there will be a deal, so even if there is a deal, there shouldnt be any fucking rally due to it, but we all know there will be, and that will be the excuse used.
Naturally, one step back and a two step forard jump as always. So often, futures red at bedtime and green in the am on something like the hint of "progress".. Roger that!
Death of the money changers.
We've all seen this gameplan before. Shake the weakhands, insiders pick up the long positions, suddenly last minute deal is struck.
When it's down to the last minutes the Euro-cowards will buckle and will give Greece all that it wants.
The Germans will buckle as well.
Greece can claim victory soon and then the rest of the PIIGS can ask for the same deal.
Debt forgiveness.
Would have been the case before AfD came to scene in Germany. Not going to happen with them snapping at CDU heels. Greeks are fucked no matter how much people here dont like the phrase.
anyone and everyone who defaults on their debt will not have a "happy ending"
Why should anything ever get resolved when we can extend and pretend until the heat death of the universe?
Well, CB's do take the punch bowl away.
I thought in Europe every country could print their own euro's?
"Bank runs were impossible"...
Ok, who are your sources? How did you get your hands on the Greek plan?
There's a point in the movie Dead Man Walking that everyone realizes Sean Penn' character is not getting off. This feels like that.
It's pretty clear the Banksters have only one plan, and it the same as it has ever been. Greece has at least 4 options... 1- force the banksters to capitulate. 2- secure alternative financing. 3- Grexit. 4- cave. Right now, both sides are on their plan 1. This is going to go on for awhile.
Three of those options are haircut for a Greek bond. The cave means the Marxists will be removed from power. They'll never choose to lose their grip on power.
Merkel caves, Guaranteed.
Enjoy your holidays Ghordius !
( we will call upon you when and if the euro reaches parity with the dolla )
Yeah, where the fuck is he?
'Shit, I'm still only in Brussels ...'
"In Brussels the bullshit piles up so fast you need wings to stay above it "
So...
You're saying that it's like any major city in medieval times when there was feudalism? Not only would animal shit build up in the streets, but so would human shit, random refuse, guts from butchers plying their trade, etc...Cities in the days of feudalism were cesspools in a very literal sense and on a scale unimaginable to anybody living today. How does that work in the days when we have wannabe neo-feudal lords?
My post and it's parent are references to lines from the film "Apocalpse Now" the original lines being 'Shit, I'm still only in Siagon...' and "In Vietman the bullshit piles up so fast you need wings to stay above it", I assumed the parent was refering to the general insanity of the situation which mirrors the insanity of the situation in the film. I highly recommend the film, it's Joseph Condrads Heart of Darkness meets Vietnam war fiction that ends up not quite as strange as fact, see In Search of Kurtz-
https://vimeo.com/40140694
and the trailer for the film-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkrhkUeDCdQ
It's probably been over a decade since I've seen that film. I'd get a "Charlie don't serf" or a "I love the smell of napalm in the morning" reference, but yeah, it's been a while.
+1 for serf rather than surf
el vaquero - you are always on the spot. but - i have to disagree.
Cities in the days of feudalism were cesspools in a very literal sense and on a scale unimaginable to anybody living today.
i haven't been there, but try, maybe lagos, tripoli, cairo, yemen, bombay. shanghai and peking are probably real resorts, but sometimes media reports pollution problems.
these are big cities. i have no interest in visiting first hand. i've heard. after you've been there - let me know. i think we have it pretty well in the united states, including detroit.
one very simple fact. tossing in mexico city.
if these places weren't still cesspools, then THEY WOULD NOT BE COMING HERE IN DROVES.
does anybody get it?
Ukrainian troops and rebels in the country’s east have been blaming each other for sporadic ceasefire violations. Both sides say they only respond to attacks launched by adversary forces and question the possibility of heavy artillery withdrawal.
The ceasefire is largely holding in eastern Ukraine, the head of the OSCE mission there, Ertugrul Apakan, said Monday. He added that the one exception was Debaltsevo, a town where an estimated 5,000 Ukrainian task force remains trapped, surrounded by rebel forces.
http://rt.com/news/232723-ceasefire-violation-mutual-accusations/
Never forget they conjure it out of thin air...it's never about them getting more, it's ALL about everyone else getting LESS
Who has written 50 trillion or so in CDS's againt 350 billion in Greek debt. Thats the news I'm waiting for. These banks will pay Greece's debt just to avoid making good on the contracts.
In the new normal, credit events are only imagined.
Wall street will never be accountable for its bets.
Q: "Who has written 50 trillion or so in CDS's againt 350 billion in Greek debt." ?
A.: Goldman Sachs clients.
No deals for Greece, Greece can leave but it doesn't get them anything, the Russians will grind just as hard but aren't as desperate as the EU, the EU is still thinking recovery of principle plus interest, they'll get neither, the best the EU can hope for is no future losses.
http://www.investing.com/currencies/eur-usd-advanced-chart
And see the DAX down 1/2% in 10 minutes.
There's still nothing to negotiate. You either pay or you don't. If that's so absurd, then this whole "meeting with Greece" is absurd.
The Greek Marxists have shot their wad already. It's haircut time.
It *should* be haircut time. Bums are bums; they never change. And why should they? "Good Samaritans" keep financing their crack habit...
Smoke up, Johnny.
This Greek Marxist gov't is just another fiend. They've sold "let's default on the debt so we can end this 'austerity' and spend more money!"
Assassination Plot against Former PM Karamanlis
...Back in 2008, Karamanlis was seeking to improve energy ties with Russia and his government was negotiating over the South Stream pipeline project, which aims to transport Russian natural gas to Europe and was heavily unpopular at the time with the United States....
http://www.keeptalkinggreece.com/2012/03/15/russian-spies-revealed-assas...
Interestingly his successor became George Papandreou, a US-citizen (born in St Paul, Minnesota, US).
A few years ago when the Greek finance minister could talk openly:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwAClUrhrek
His aim is default.
Greeks are consumers. Germans are producers. You need consumers to produce. Now send Greece your crappy BMWs and Mercedes and give them your stupid Euros or no Feta cheese and olives for you krauts.
Print, problem solved.
The Greeks could try some perp walks today. Start with every dickhead that put thier name on any of these deals.
When they make the announcment do it with the official loan papers in hand. Wave the papers around calling them clear evidence of fraud and treason. Then publish all the names in the deal. With warrents in hand.
That wont happen. But it should. In stead they will get some song and dance and a new deal even more criminal than the last.
Actions speak louder than words. What we have here is a global chainyank.
Germany should Gerxit.
No, not jerks it. Well, sorta.
Former Goldman Sachs employee convicted of killing drug dealer, Bronx DA says ...He was aiming at a banker and accidently shot an innocent bystander [drug dealer] who actually worked for a living...
Or the lender can roll the mortgage into a lower-interest loan, effectively entering partial forbearance: the promised return on the mortgage plummets, but as long as the borrower makes small monthly payments, the loan stays on the books at full value.
Both of these strategies have been deployed in Japan for decades to keep impaired debts on the books at full value.
The last choice is to turn the mortgage into a zombie loan: the loan is neither written off nor listed as being in default: it enters a zombie state, not in good standing but not in default, either. The mortgage can stay in this netherworld for years, as the lender waits for the market to rise enough that the house can be sold without the lender absorbing a huge loss on the mortgage." http://charleshughsmith.blogspot.com/2015/02/greece-and-eurolands-crumbl...
greece wants The last choice is to turn the mortgage into a zombie loan germany thinks this is insane.
germans wants it can loan the defaulting borrower more money, with the explicit guarantee that the borrower will use the money to pay interest on the original mortgage greeks know this is hell.
Leave the damned Euro already.
There is no more to fleece from Greece...that sheep has been clipped, shorn, shaved, starved and had a fork stuck in it.
What part of bankrupt do the ECB morons not get? Either make it managable, or you get nada, zip, zilch, zero, nothing.
I have Euros 26.20 from a trip I took there in 2008. Should I cash them in for another more viable currency, like the drachma, or Renminbi? Local Driving Range tokens?
Will I surely lose it all?
Hey. I have a couple of thousand drachmas from back in the day. Maybe they'll be useful again
Save your Confederate dollars—the South will rise again!
http://www.ebay.com/sch/Confederate-Currency-/3414/i.html
Stuff is worth more than what printed on the bill. Beats the Euro by a mile :-)
"I have Euros 26.20 from a trip I took there in 2008."
You took a trip to Euro?
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c17_1422626222
The positions are way too far apart between Greecea and the EU with too little time to come together.
One side is going to make a big 'mistake'.
Gonna have to sell a whole lot of gold to keep stocks looking attractive!
....replace Mr Varoufakis with a political experienced, realistic-efficient person.”
There it is
Meaning, "We can't buy this guy or threaten him..."
+1
That's exactly it. They want someone they can blind with bullshit and jargon. Varoufakis (Phd Econ) obviously ran their arguments into the ground.
Then they will ask us to replace Tsipras.
I'm sure there's a Greek in the Goldman alumni who would set this all in the banksters favor again /sarc
"....replace Mr Varoufakis with a political experienced, realistic-efficient person."
They cannot bear to deal with a savvy economist. Too sexy for his shirt to boot.
That draft statement from the EU is just a long winded way of saying "Bend Over, Here It Comes Again".
Varoufakis is about the best pro people pro Greece guy that I have seen in years.
Makes sense that Germany wants him to be replaced. Putting the country first. Oh my God.
Yeah how dare he!
Everyone knows the Greek FinMin is supposed to put over leveraged, thinly capitalized German and French banks first!
EU does not speak truth, so what varoufakis says make no sense to them. they simple can not comprehend why he is speaking this strange language as it does not help them to steal from the poor.
Yeah, EU group want to put the bankers first, fuck the Greek people.
Greece is a welfare state where >70 % of the people work for the government doing nothing or don't work at all.
Germany wants Varoufakis replaced.
In other news, the rest of the NFL want Brady and Belichick to be replaced.
Either the Euro-bureaucrats agree or Greece defaults and the debt owed gets hammered.
Greece might just turn out to be a bigger problem for EU than Ukraine...... expect a Merkel/Holland trip to Athens soon!
Gerxit is the solution of all problems, they are so clever ..
The EU Powers believe that than threaten and Jawbone the new Greek Government into changing course and accepting a new "extend and pretend" plan, one that allows all of the Brussels Soviets to act like the "Party" can continue. They don't care about solving Greeece's problems, they DO care about extending their Soviet Power for as long as it takes to transfer all Greeks assets to the Banks and Investor Class. One Greece has no land, no resources, no Islands, no public parks, no public utilites, then the Brussels Soviet will have what they want, and Greeks can be damned to starve for all the Soviet Commissars in Brussels care. The elites are looking to purchase all Greek Public assets classes at fire sale prices, so they can be RENTED back to Greeks with a toll booth economy. Just think about it, what will Greece gain by remaing a Soviet Republic under Brussels Supreme Soviet of Bankers.
those privatized assets create rents which the populace cant pay - ultimate objective is Greece without Greeks. In Ukraine - they want the same - everyone to go away to Russia or dead - and land goes to Monsanto, Oil and Gas to Hunter Biden and a US wall of nuclear weapons for invasion all the way to Vladavostock
take the world wide population to 3.0 Billion one country at a time
Chinkies to the rescue.
Rescue what? A bunch of crack smokers?
Impressive dialogue. You two should start a blog, and analyze current events together. Sky's the limit.
Great. All that's left is divorce court.
Now Syriaz can get on with the entertaining business of building the socialist paradise, where everone lives off the Govt. but nobody pays taxes.
The bright side is now the Greeks will have a printing press.
Opa!
Why doesn't ZH provide a link to S & P futures? That way, readers can determine quickly, at any moment, whether there is a plunge.
http://finviz.com/futures_charts.ashx?t=ES&p=w1.... Escalate
http://www.investing.com/indices/us-spx-500-futures
It's in the Greek interest to tighten the screws.
Greece should also threaten to exit NATO.
Do they have more leverage officially staying in the club but voting "no" to everything than being officially outside the club.
Just look how the fake gold and silver markets do not react on this news in a USA closed market (while the euro tumbles)
Haha just one fake manipulated bull shit market this all is.
Good luck everyone, what a mess
gold drops on Tuesday's CRIMEX as news could have worse. There will be continued run on Greece banks.
Why would anyone with more than $100 worth of money trust they will see any of it. Too risky for no return.
Then Spain, and then Italy. That is how it goes.
Good! Hope it accelerates from here. The Euro needs to go. Paper gold is useless. The day CRIMEX blows up is the day I would start trade my physical for real assets. Until that day, gold and silver are on "sale".
Stay with it everyone and buy the SNOT out the S&P 500 Magical Mystery Tour event driven extravaganza!! Hello Mortimer!
germany has already printed dmarks, greece drachmas and the players in between are ready too. get ready for the eurocrat tantrum to create grexit turmoil as ittts only defense to the contagious bleedout of the eurofarce.
anyone selling on this 'news' obviously hasn't learned anything in the last 6 years.
Greece is close to meaningless, and downside is all priced in.
Soon as they announce any progress or some deal, no matter how ridiculous, s+p will jump 20 points or more.
PM's should drop 3 to 4 % as well.
zzzzzzzzzz boring
This is the greatest buying opportunity since Friday!
It's almost like someone cuming in your mouth....FOR FREE!!!!
Varoufakis is candidly honest... Greece cannot take any EU proposal as they are laid out...
They were broke before, they are broke now. Their stand is aimed to find a solution that makes sense, getting out of the lies of the ECB. Maybe instead of replacing Varoufakis, they should consider replacing the entire EU leadership, including the ECB heads. It should not be that difficult to prove their insanity or criminal decisions… Ah, I forgot, the ECB actions are totally independent from anything, not punishable, not sanctionable nor they have to answer to any democratic elected body…
Isn't there something deeply wrong also with that?
The first bailout of Geece was aimed to save mostly German and French banks that were exposed to Greek bonds. Nobody cared about what was happening to Greece then, nobody cares now, maybe that is the problem. The sooner ECB and the Euro go, the better it is.
I am laughing thinking that Varoufakis should sing in Bruxelles: "LET MY PEOPLE GO"
:-D
Greece kick NATO out as icing on the EU bureaucrat cake.
Probably Greece will fold and stay in the EU. I hope it doesn't happen for their sake... as there is no price high enough for freedom and dignity, but most likely they will fold... regretfully
No we will not fold.We may stay in the EU or we may not, it is up to the EU.
I hope you will not, Aristofanes. I hope you will not.
The Eurocrats want Varoufakis replaced because they can't handle the truth.
He's a lot smarter than they are and you don't need to bluff when your people haven't got a future anyway.
When you are at the bottom of the barrel the only way out is up.
Default, go back to the Drachma, put up with the agro a little longer and fuck up the entire EU stupidity.
"When you are at the bottom of the barrel the only way out is up."
Ummm, pretty sure that's not how it works, adonis. You get an "A" for your great attitude, though.
@adonisdemilo/somecallmetimmah: Absolutely.
"When you are at the bottom of the barrel the only way out is up."
Shout To The Top (play loudly)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7m94ip38UKs
Pretty sure that going back to the Drachma, isn't the Change that greek voters were Hoping for.
They aren't meeting in a rail car are they?
French General Charles Huntziger would not sign the Armistice of 22 June 1940 without a written order from the French Government to do so.
Hitler blew that car up after the French surrender as you know remus...
euro has to blink. they have no choice unless they decide to dissolve the euro.
greece knows this. they also know what is being discussed is an accounting entry. the model has to balance. that is all. greece's solution of keeping the loans on the books but extend them to eternity sounds absurd but in the present absurd world of finance the proposed solution is brilliantly simple. it is an official accounting entry for the trillion drachma coin while conforming to gaap accounting( sovereign accounting is nongaap anyway) or a jubilee of sorts which ultimately is the prudent tested solution.
germany needs to keep italy in check. they probably view that greece needs to be made an example of what happens if you do not become more german like.
germans have a history of wanting people to be more like them which is why mussolini made the trains run on time when the two countries were butt buddies.
germany and france need the euro, so does italy and the rest of the eurozone dependent upon germany and france. portugal and greece not so much, with spain on the fence.
there will be regime change in greece determined by the urgency of the situation and maybe something as dramatic as a takeover of sorts with nato forces where greece as a country ceases to exist except as a geographical reference and the debt is "absorbed" by the entire eurozone with those persons ion the geographical area formally known as greece will still be on the hook for it with a special tax assessment collected by sharply uniformed and officious german tax agents.
greece will not give up it's sovernty for paper.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zvl9N9GdraQ
not withoput a fight but the banks will repossess it with troops if neccessary. i love that tape.
And what if Tsipras refuses to dismiss Varoufakis? Is the plan to have the CIA do it for him?
the cia will get involved along with the eurozone security apparatus and greece will be gone. that is the ultimate solution, isn't it?
It could be if it was that simple buat it aint.
according to some us navy scuttlebutt, the russians are doing the security work for the greeks.
wimpy was glad to pay you tuesday for a hamberger today, until he had a stroke from all the bergers he was eating. now he got to learn to talk again but a least he has lost his taste for hambergers...
Screw it! Let's get this collapse going already!!
Once you have nothing, it is too fucking late to negotiate shit. Go greece, fuck the criminal bankers and financiers!!!!
Assuming they do so, it'll be sweet in the short term, fo shizzle mah Phyzzle, but the 20th century shows what usually happens a few years after the German manufacturing sector "tanks"...
Translations
"Institutions" Overlords, self appointed, omniipotent, principals identities irrelevant
"Program" Document evidencing looting and plunder of correspondent nation. Irrevocable.
"Extension" Submission to future looting
"Toxic" Any suggestion, verbal or written that plunder by "Insttutions" will not continue.
"Negotiations" A path forward for submission to "Institutions" "Program".
"Money" Nebulous creation emitted by "Institutions". If not returned wiith interest, unstated, immutable laws are deemed violated.
Were I Putin, I might consider lending "bridge" funds to the Greeks, if they told the EU to gfy, and such a promise might well embolden them to do so.
Even if the money were never paid back, it would probably be worth the expenditure just to mess up the EU, et al. The EU is hardly going to sanction somebody who lends money to a member state.
somehow you get the feeling that the greeks have a backstop here. RU? CN?
Bobby - IMHO it is still too early. Why should Russia show a bid now? I think that the "price" is going to get a lot lower very soon. Maybe buy 60% of Greek debt ($650B approx) at 80% haircut = $31B approx. Restructure bonds to link payments to Greek GDP, commodity based basket.
Fuckin' duh !
has Jeroen Dijssebloem just coined a "broadly on track" as a new way to say "we re hoping we can put it together somehow"?