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In NYT Op-Ed, Yanis Varoufakis Says Greece Is Not Bluffing, "Will Not Cross Red Lines It Has Drawn"
With only a few short hours until the process of everyone's cards being revealed in Brussels begins, it is once again Greece' turn to remind the other players on the table that no matter the quality of cards it has, it is not bluffing. Which is precisely what anyone bluffing would say.
In a just released Op-Ed in the NYT (were there no European newspaper willing to accept the Greek finance minister's Op-Ed one wonders that he had to go all the way to the bastion of the left... in the United States) the new Greek finance minister says that not only is he not bluffing adding "that I have no right to bluff", but using recent military jargon says that "the lines that we have presented as red will not be crossed. Otherwise, they would not be truly red, but merely a bluff."
But what if this brings your people much pain? I am asked. Surely you must be bluffing. The problem with this line of argument is that it presumes, along with game theory, that we live in a tyranny of consequences. That there are no circumstances when we must do what is right not as a strategy but simply because it is ... right.
Against such cynicism the new Greek government will innovate. We shall desist, whatever the consequences, from deals that are wrong for Greece and wrong for Europe. The “extend and pretend” game that began after Greece’s public debt became unserviceable in 2010 will end. No more loans — not until we have a credible plan for growing the economy in order to repay those loans, help the middle class get back on its feet and address the hideous humanitarian crisis. No more “reform” programs that target poor pensioners and family-owned pharmacies while leaving large-scale corruption untouched.
Varoufakis then proceeds to further steamroll conventional analogies, saying next that what Greece is doing is nothing like game theory:
"If anything, my game-theory background convinced me that it would be pure folly to think of the current deliberations between Greece and our partners as a bargaining game to be won or lost via bluffs and tactical subterfuge. The trouble with game theory, as I used to tell my students, is that it takes for granted the players’ motives. In poker or blackjack this assumption is unproblematic. But in the current deliberations between our European partners and Greece’s new government, the whole point is to forge new motives. To fashion a fresh mind-set that transcends national divides, dissolves the creditor-debtor distinction in favor of a pan-European perspective, and places the common European good above petty politics, dogma that proves toxic if universalized, and an us-versus-them mind-set."
So German exporters reliant on a weak Deutsche Mark and insolvent European banks reliant on a ECB-subsidized monetary union at all costs, need a realginment of motives? That may comes as a surprise to them. And, of course, just like with the bluffing rebuttal, anyone engaging in a game theory strategy, will of course deny doing so.
And then in conclusion, just to throw everyone off, Varoufakis invokes none other than a German philosopher as the "major influence" behind his deliberation stratgy to tie it all together.
One may think that this retreat from game theory is motivated by some radical-left agenda. Not so. The major influence here is Immanuel Kant, the German philosopher who taught us that the rational and the free escape the empire of expediency by doing what is right.
How do we know that our modest policy agenda, which constitutes our red line, is right in Kant’s terms? We know by looking into the eyes of the hungry in the streets of our cities or contemplating our stressed middle class, or considering the interests of hard-working people in every European village and city within our monetary union. After all, Europe will only regain its soul when it regains the people’s trust by putting their interests center-stage.
That's the problem: Europe is doing what is right - for the people of those countries that have all the power and leverage - at the expense of those without, just as 'globalization' has done over the past century. And because Europe isn't and will never be a true federal union, to those same people who do benefit from the Eurozone, the suffering of a "few" tens of millions of "peripheral" Europeans is, to continue using military analogies, perfectly acceptable collateral damage.
* * *
Yanis' full Op-Ed below, as it appears in the New York Times:
Yanis Varoufakis: No Time for Games in Europe
I am writing this piece on the margins of a crucial negotiation with my country’s creditors — a negotiation the result of which may mark a generation, and even prove a turning point for Europe’s unfolding experiment with monetary union.
Game theorists analyze negotiations as if they were split-a-pie games involving selfish players. Because I spent many years during my previous life as an academic researching game theory, some commentators rushed to presume that as Greece’s new finance minister I was busily devising bluffs, stratagems and outside options, struggling to improve upon a weak hand.
Nothing could be further from the truth.
If anything, my game-theory background convinced me that it would be pure folly to think of the current deliberations between Greece and our partners as a bargaining game to be won or lost via bluffs and tactical subterfuge.
The trouble with game theory, as I used to tell my students, is that it takes for granted the players’ motives. In poker or blackjack this assumption is unproblematic. But in the current deliberations between our European partners and Greece’s new government, the whole point is to forge new motives. To fashion a fresh mind-set that transcends national divides, dissolves the creditor-debtor distinction in favor of a pan-European perspective, and places the common European good above petty politics, dogma that proves toxic if universalized, and an us-versus-them mind-set.
As finance minister of a small, fiscally stressed nation lacking its own central bank and seen by many of our partners as a problem debtor, I am convinced that we have one option only: to shun any temptation to treat this pivotal moment as an experiment in strategizing and, instead, to present honestly the facts concerning Greece’s social economy, table our proposals for regrowing Greece, explain why these are in Europe’s interest, and reveal the red lines beyond which logic and duty prevent us from going.
The great difference between this government and previous Greek governments is twofold: We are determined to clash with mighty vested interests in order to reboot Greece and gain our partners’ trust. We are also determined not to be treated as a debt colony that should suffer what it must. The principle of the greatest austerity for the most depressed economy would be quaint if it did not cause so much unnecessary suffering.
I am often asked: What if the only way you can secure funding is to cross your red lines and accept measures that you consider to be part of the problem, rather than of its solution? Faithful to the principle that I have no right to bluff, my answer is: The lines that we have presented as red will not be crossed. Otherwise, they would not be truly red, but merely a bluff.
But what if this brings your people much pain? I am asked. Surely you must be bluffing.
The problem with this line of argument is that it presumes, along with game theory, that we live in a tyranny of consequences. That there are no circumstances when we must do what is right not as a strategy but simply because it is ... right.
Continue reading the main story Continue reading the main story
Continue reading the main story
Against such cynicism the new Greek government will innovate. We shall desist, whatever the consequences, from deals that are wrong for Greece and wrong for Europe. The “extend and pretend” game that began after Greece’s public debt became unserviceable in 2010 will end. No more loans — not until we have a credible plan for growing the economy in order to repay those loans, help the middle class get back on its feet and address the hideous humanitarian crisis. No more “reform” programs that target poor pensioners and family-owned pharmacies while leaving large-scale corruption untouched.
Our government is not asking our partners for a way out of repaying our debts. We are asking for a few months of financial stability that will allow us to embark upon the task of reforms that the broad Greek population can own and support, so we can bring back growth and end our inability to pay our dues.
One may think that this retreat from game theory is motivated by some radical-left agenda. Not so. The major influence here is Immanuel Kant, the German philosopher who taught us that the rational and the free escape the empire of expediency by doing what is right.
How do we know that our modest policy agenda, which constitutes our red line, is right in Kant’s terms? We know by looking into the eyes of the hungry in the streets of our cities or contemplating our stressed middle class, or considering the interests of hard-working people in every European village and city within our monetary union. After all, Europe will only regain its soul when it regains the people’s trust by putting their interests center-stage.
And now we sit back and prepare for all sorts of red lines to be crossed.
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I hear the subtle humming of printing presses, new drahma banknotes coming... :)
Why would Yanis bluff just to get moar austerity from the Troika that's only made it a lot worse for the Greek people?
What part of that don't the EU, IMF and ECB get?
Duuhhh
Yanis is holding out for more bribes to be paid into his and associates accounts, to ensure Greece's compliance.
I will cross the red line for ONE MILLION DOLLARS!!
Greece Is Not Bluffing, "Will Not Cross Red Lines It Has Drawn"
It would be a mistake to confuse Greece with Obama.
This event has been planned for months now. Why do you thing Dragi is firing up the printing presses?
<-- Yanis (Bugs Bunny)
<-- DieselBOOM (Yosemite Sam)
There's no way out of this mess other than Grexit now
Greece can't take moar austerity to get into moar debt they can't repay ever anyway
And the EU and ECB can't afford to cut the debt cause Italy and Spain will be next.
So there's no choice now. Greece will exit and go it alone and be a lot better off in a year or so.
Europe will just continue to decay back into the mess it always was.
"were there no European newspaper willing to accept the Greek finance minister's Op-Ed"?
EU is deutche territory even claimed otherwise...
Greeks will have to learn to pay their bills themselves (in Drachma). Don't be naive to think there is something like "european solidarity". It's only about money and might.
German politicans sent a big part of their own people into poverty, so don't expect a cash rain for "foreigners".
Hbangers best post ever.. +1
Rickards insists there will be no Grexit. A mutually unpalatable agreement as the EU cannot allow Greece to start giving anyone any ideas. Sounds like right downs on the debt and the ECB printing 1s and 0s to recapitalize insolvent EU banks.
Moar $ stength.
Rikards is a CIA tool and shill, and associated another tool Al Gore, his analysis always miss key complements, like Putin or BRICS alliance.
Rikards is a CIA tool and shill, and associates with another tool Al Gore, his analysis always miss key complements, like Putin or BRICS alliance.
You do realize LTCM ran to George Soros for help, ummmm
What surprises me is that nobody questions the Emergency Liquidity Assistance to Greek Banks. Why do they send actual cash down there to "prevent a bank run"?? If I was Draghi, I wouldn't send one more bill...
Let's say the greek people really picked up about a billion of EUR each day over the last weeks and months, they might come out as big winners. Ok the Euro will be toast one day, but in between now and then, there will for sure be a phase where the Euro-bill will be worth much more than the Euro-byte on your online bank account that you cannot retrieve.
So wouldn't it be ironic, the Greeks having the most cash of all?? Maybe these Greek guys are much smarter than we think!?! He who panics first, panics best!!!
Yes! Greeks convert account credits to cash and PM and transfer a lot of the cash abroad particularly to Switzerlands where the system is inhundated with Greek-Euros.That is causing a lot of headache to SNB. Draghi's fat finger is resting on the the print-money-aqas command of his labtop and he hopes to keep the system afloat until the day of the GREXIT, or ITREXIT or SPREXIT or FREXIT when the whole structure will collapse.
It will surely be worth more than the Dracmas they are going to print...wait until the deflation of the value of the dracma..then exchange them..you could gain 60 to 90%
They send cash down there to prevent bank runs in other countries.
Schäuble always gives in after 48 hours. Greece is betting on this fact.
24 hours left for Schäuble...
"Whatever the consequences"
Great stuff...
Well......we didn't expect nothing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5QGkOGZubQ
I can promise you; no matter what happens, the oligarchs of Greece will not miss one 7-course dinner.
if, isay if the whole mess turn truely ugly and gets truely out of control, i think the masses will target the 7 coursers. we know where they live here, they know where they live there. doubt it will get to that point, though.
remain'g hopefull, ha...
Yes but it will not be in Greece.
What a bunch of tedious, cynical fucks! Just just because you cannot conceive of anyone motivated by something other than self interest, because you are incapable of thinking about anything but money, because everything you perceive is refracted through a lens of translucent dollar bills and because you have your heads up your collective arse trying to bite some mythical golden rivet, you assume everyone else is just like you. I guess if you truly represent Amerika, then you and Amerika are well and truly fucked. As I noted a couple of days back, one minute you're cheerleading for this guy, the next moment all you have is cheap shots. You're so critical of everything you feel is wrong with the US, the moneychangers and the shufflers of paper, yet in reality you're no different, you're part of the entire smart-arsed "if you're so smart, how come you're not rich" fuckwit mentality that is the defining paradigm of the good ole US of A. This guy will do what no one else until now has had the cojones to do. You've haped on about this kind of scenario for years apparently, yet when the day comes all you have is side and snide.
Here is your BLUFF Greece...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZHS-ZNEgVg
Its a shame that he will succeed in decentralizing european power, but will centralize greeces power (he is a marxist after all).
I am all for secession, but the greek people are idiots if they think socialism will help them.
This is a sign of what's to come to Europe again now that the central banksters wreck democracy for them
Don't be surprised to see the rise of radical left and right wing politicos in Europe again.
You are right: Socialism for the rich didn't work in the US. So why should it work in Europe?
Oh it works just fine for the rich.
Socialism is never for the socialists.
@giovanni.
Williambanzai is 100% correct. Socialism is a statist political system. It aims to invest the state with as much power and authority as possible. So empowered it becomes a natural tool of the oligarchy to maintain control and protect its interest.
It may seem like people are getting "free" stuff, but there's a powerful hand dispensing it that does so, so it remains the arbiter of who receives what.
That must be the US version of socialism, which BTW elsewhere is nothing like your conception of it. In Europe and the UK people get help on the basis of need and whilst it's far from perfect, no one up the command chain gets to decide that someone will be either punished or excluded. What you're thinking about is US bumfuck capitalism whereby the further you've got your tongue up someone elses crack, the better you're treated regardless of competence or personal industry. I've seen how THAT works at first hand , all the way up to VP level and beyond in very large corporarations.
Brooklynlou, us capitalism has lead to fascism not socialism. Hard for most 'mericans to hear. Where corporations like the fed, jdr's standard oil, bush's union bank, harriman's brown brothers et. al. control government and in return government let's these corporations control the market. Just look how business men glide from government into business and back, whether it's Goldman Sachs and the UST, or "news media to gov and back". Granddaddy Bush even ran an ad in the LA Times looking for a slimy politician to become president (Nixon). Or look how often the CIA used the mafia or the news media to complete certain operations - certain lawlessness there. There are no black hats or white hats anymore, just rich guys trying to get richer. They would even invest in a dictator to be a bulwark against a revolutionary uprising in the east - ww2.
Most 'mericans need to read more history particularly from civil war forward. What 'merica has become is facist not socialism. In fascism the rich get richer, and laws do not apply, propaganda is plentiful, police state monitors your life, and a country is in a constant state of war. That's what fascists do.
Every person on the planet is a Socialist. If you have children, you take care of them. If you have pets you take care of them, that being said we don't want to care for our kids their whole lives, we do what we can to make them independent.
What you're really saying is, " Fuck my neighbors and community"
Did I just write that????
You've got it in one spacecadet. There is an entire constituency posting on here about 'socialsm this and socialism that', who actually know fuck all about socialism, but nevertheless remain viscerally and venomously opposed to it as an idea, because it's actuallly an article of religious faith, rather than a reasoned critique.
Not only that, but they've managed to skew the meaning to the point where ANY notion of helping each other is sneered at as "socialism"...
For their moral authority, they reference selected passages out of a book that champions the notion of "I AM my brother's keeper..."
Fascinating, when you observe it. Infuriating when you have to LIVE it.
The world is watching and we are with you Yanis Varoufakis
Please do the right thing not only for Greece but for Humanity
You speak for "we"? Bold. I missed that vote.
A Greek exit seems a certainty...but average honest Greek citizens will suffer very badly. Only the existing gov't workers there will be celebrating. One has to wonder if the Greeks offered Krugman a lifetime pension (with all 13 months) over there.
From what I understand the ordinary Greek is experiencing a lot of pain these days. Do they go from suffering to suffering very badly?
They have nothing left to lose, they will roll the dice.
Choosing between two devils: the intransigent Germans (who should never have joined a currency union) and a totally corrupt Greek gov't that is unable to tax anyone (and were happy to take advantage of a currency union in which they made out like bandits for years). And always in the middle, average citizens that get force fed propaganda from both sides. The suffering will increase on an exit...but the Greeks have already chosen.
The average greek, much like the average Russian, has been "suffering" (by american standards) for quite some time asshat. They really don't give a shit and have learned to live just fine within a black market and barter economy.
Let's see how the U.S.S.A. makes that transition...
tick tock motherfucker.
This much I do know; if/when the USSA makes that transition, for many there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. The well off will expect certain priveledges and the FSA the same. As for myself, I expect things will suck, and can only do so much to lessen the blow.
Much like in real estate, it will boil down to one thing; community and location. I know many people that live in the city in "wealthy" neighborhoods that are surrounded by shit. You see, their are still going to have to leave their compounds to either get food and water or have that food and water delivered...
Living and working were I do I really don't give a shit about these folks. Fuck em. Something about "making your own bed" comes to mind...
Why so angry about city dwellers? Some of those "folks" that you want to "fuck" make the machines that defend your freedom. They also make computers and operating systems and appliances and medicines. Their contributions let you not give a shit about them and generally have a free opinion which you can post on internet forums.
City dwellers as an abstract jam Socialism down our throat for my own good. Look at a Blue /Red map of the country we are ruled by a narrow coastline. It does get irritating after years of failed policy that keeps repeating despite clearer heads.. But I want these people to come to their senses not be hurt..
And such pity that only the HFT algos are on duty today.
Monday could be a fun day. Thin Futures markets and breaking news, truth or lies. The suspense and tension mounts!
'Greece is ready for drachma. Tsipras is not bluffing, I can assure you.'
the only right thing to do: Grexit now!
Cause you would say you are bluffing if you actually were bluffing. Retard Varoufuckis.
Exactly. Expert in game theory? Hahahahahaha. Commie.
So Schäuble is getting mad as part of the bluff? Hahahahahaha. Game theory expert.
Just foreclose on Greece. Send the citizens to America routed though Mexico. The Americans won’t be able to tell by skin tone, dialect, work ethic.
How do you say amnesty in Greek?
"Just foreclose on Greece etc"
Most Americans are as blind as a bat, when it comes to people living in foreign lands..
Greece will invoke the Russian option to avoid more rape and pillage (foreclosure) by western bankers and similar financial crooks.
Or relocate Israel to Greece http://www.kavkazcenter.com/eng/content/2012/10/30/16913.shtml
If Varoufakis is bluffing, he's doing a damn fine job.
Does anyone know if he's a golfer. 'Cause if he is he's bluffing.
This is it. This is Liar's Poker.
We red-lined some folks...
He is so right. Will he stick with it? I hope that he does. It's not only Greece, but more than half the Countries in the World that are under the Iron Heel of the fat Bankers and it's time for the common People to retake the World.
New Greek government can't back down because they've built up people's expectations so high. Boink the Troika already and unleash the Drachma Kracken.
Tylers: "Europe is doing what is right - for the people of those countries that have all the power and leverage - at the expense of those without, just as 'globalization' has done over the past century."
That's what TPTB in those countries have been led to believe, yet it is not true. Developed Western powers are coming up against the fractional reserve banking financial asset ponzi themselves. It is a ponzi and it inures almost exclusively to the ponzi operators, while destroying value in the real economy... It has engendered a ponzi growth/consumption model that is certain to collapse and fail. Now, the ponzi operators are trying to take down oil and food so their PHANTOM / fraudulent, yet senior, claims on real flows of value seize control of those real/productive assets before everyone understand they've been running a ponzi and stealing from humanity...
"We are bankrupt"
http://ec.europa.eu/news/2015/01/20150108_en.htm
Greece can only defaut on its debt. And once they do that only the brave will lend them money again, at high interest rates.
As many have said, here comes the Dracma, Eventually the Euro will die, No one will want to keep ubsidizing Germany's standard of living. The only country that truly benefits from the Euro,
these syriza guys do not want to leave the eurozone or the EU. They want another 5 years' of somebody bankrolling their turn driving the corrupt machine of power, with the dreams of getting a seat at the bigger table in brussels after theyve sold their country into total slavery. Any bold words between them and the other miserable SOBs in this shitty drama are merely bold words either for positioning in the negotiation or to keep the hopeful suckers back home who voted for them , believing and hopeful.
Nobody knows yet what the two bad boys from Athens are up to. It is possible that they would prefer an immediate departure from EU but they think this will not be acceptable to their electorate. Maybe they try to get Greece into a position where the population finds the departure acceptable. Regardless whether some sort of deal is made or not, the departure could take place any minute as long as this government is in place.
No, they have been very clear about wanting a solution inside the EU, which they don't even really bother to conceal. They are all about further integration of power, total erasure of soveriegn states in europe, as long as they and their nomenklatura get a free ride (which of course they assume is going to happen as a matter of course).
They are not going to take greece back to the drachma or get greece our of the EU. In greek politics you have to go to the nationalistic parties to find that. ANEL, which is part of the syriza coalition, was anti-EU, but then, they made some deal and formed a coalition, so they were somehow for sale. XA is, well, anti-everything, and the establishment is scared of them, but then, they seem to be in a market niche and not capable of anything useful either. The others in parliament are all in favor of staying in the euro and the EU 'whatever the consequences'.
Do you mean to say that people in general and politicians in particular are always telling exactly what they are up-to?
are you playing deliberately thick?
politicians' first loyalty is to whatever gets them into and keeps them in power. Beyond that, if there is any latitude, you might see them do something different one from the next.
Sometimes you also have people who are fanatical ideologues. Ofthen they don't get into powerso easily because the ideology sooner or later gets in the way of their serving whatever gets them into or keeps them in power. Sometimes some politicians are pragmatic enough to do what it takes to get into power and will push their ideological fanaticism as much as they can without titally jeopardizing their hold on power.
and what is the fanatical ideology that inspires guys like tsipra and varoufaki? they have been clear about it for many years, they are avowed marxists, worshippers of concentrated centralized power, and they of course have gotten thoroughly drunk on having gotten their hands on a machine of concentrated power.
The fact that the majority of the population , in greece as well as most other countries, are too stupid to figure out that they are cheering on totalitarian power, is merely sad comedy.
people like tsipras and varoufakis at a very fundamental level genuinely believe that nothing can manage or survive without centralized control of everything. in their own minds they are doing god's work as much as blankfein is in his own mind. This is one of the things which makes people like this so deadly to everythign around them.
Trust me they will happily throw greece and the greek people under the bus to further their version of god's work.
THEY WANT TO STAY IN THE EURO BUT WITHOUT THE DEBT...
or as we say in Greek....'As eixa tin ygeia mou kai as imoun plousios'
The corallito is coming..
Genius plan, but how are you going to have "no debt" if you keep borrowing money from everybody?
Merkel and the other powers that be in the EU should fully federalize the EU into a single empire, with full fiscal and political union - with Angela Merkel as Caesar. After Greece is fully integrated into the new order, the honchos of the Syriza Party should be rounded up and executed - French Revolution style. Just because full union is the right thing for Europe, does not mean that any of these Syriza clowns should ever be allowed to have power in the New Order once full union is achieved.
"WITHOUT THE DEBT"
whose debt? the debt you are talking about of 700 billion dollars was created the last 10 years ... before the entry in EU the debt of Greece was only 2.4 billion ....
Besides what media tells us daily, do you really believe this kind of money was REALLY borrowed or are we just talking funny money???
Here is a BBC short piece on this so-called debt ... and this is BBC, imagine when BBC is willing to put out this much
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07-hA9DW-Po
I am sorry to inform you that XA (Golden Dawn) is a Nazi party, not even neo-Naziand and as such pro-German.
Once again, the vast majority of the Greek people would like to see a solution inside the EU.Without a solution this same majority has nothing to gain and much more to loose by remaining in the EU.So the choise for the vast majority is easy.
If you dont mind my saying so, your second phrase is not true, you are simply misinformed.
I disagree..they have been very clear...they do now want to pay any of their debts...and they wnat new money...that they say they will pay back when they can...lol...in the future when Greece is a fincancial powerhouse...lol...I say let them go......in one year..let the UN save them with food.....
If this takes one more year, the Greeks will be the richest folks in the EUROzone. They will have withdrawn all their positive balances and magically transformed bytes in bills ("brought to you by ELA"), and only debt-bytes will still be with the banks which can then subsequently be defaulted on.
In the meantime the ones with the cash can by assets and gold and wait for the Euro to become worthless. All thanks to Varoufakis and Tsipras.
Poor people will have no more debt, rich people have assets and gold. What a plan... Chapeau!
Definitely this. All politics are local.
The benefits are limited: real wages did drop over an extended time and average nominal loans are stagnating. The EU system in it's current format is an unsustainable ponzi scheme that needs the integration of a new member with underutilized credit capacity from time to time to function. This is likely not happening any longer and thus the ponzi, i.e. the EURO shall collapse. It is only question of time (1-3 years my guess).
We've had some initial talks with the aliens, but they decided to hold some kind of planetwide referendum.
Yanis himself stated this would be implausible as it would take several months to reconstitue the Dracama by which time its pre-devaluation would kill the country before it could effectively resurface.
Greece has a long history of defaulting and then being granted new loans, as is the experience of every other defaulting country in history.
Russia and China will not lend them money to repay existing loans but would be much more likely to lend once Greece has defaulted on the existing millstones. However, it is unclear Greece would need such loans since it currently has a primary budget surplus and the "new loans" are to rollover existing loans and pay the interest on them.
It is also not necessary for Greece to recreate the drachma. It can go on printing Greek euros (all euros are marked for the issuing country). Then there would be Greek euros and EZ euros (just like USD, Canadian, Aus, Singapore dollars, etc).
That would save a whole lot of conversion and logistic drama and would no doubt cause conniptions in the ECB but if the ECB is party to forcing Greece out of the EZ, as it is currently doing, then Greece may be quite happy to flip the bird to the ECB. It would probably provoke arbitrage among the euros issued by the various countries remaining in the EZ (do you want to hold Spanish euros or German euros?)
"The principle of the greatest austerity for the most depressed economy would be quaint if it did not cause so much unnecessary suffering."
find and replace game:
quaint --> absurd
if varoufakis cross the red lines there is no way to come back in greece. he must find another country to stay....
If I'm not mistaken, I believe he currently resides in the USA.
Well said Yanis, EU/Mutti has to come to your side.
The case history of the Euro crisis has proven that by protecting the Bankstas-- first Gordon Brown in 2009, after the G20 meeting in UK, where nothing was done to ensure the Casino got regulated and the banks be bridled-- then Geithner in 2010 --, it started a panic stricken movement to save the Squid's own fraternity, by refusing to accept hair cuts in Ireland as proposed by IMF boss DSK. It led to the bail out of all banksta shenanigans in Club Med and concomittant austerity all around. Greece, as Oligarchy run "Non state", was the prime culprit/victim of this absurdly vicious rape of people's wealth.
If the EU/Geithner trust had followed the route of Banksta austerity and nationalisations to stop the rot, this cancer would never had grown at the expense of the people to feed City and Oligarchy by "doing what it takes" under the Mutti half in half out dictat. For that to work we needed federation and eurobonding and all countries on the same footing. That is not the reality of today !
Now its too late to save EU without extreme pain but its time to stop it from growing further. Pain and reset is better than feeding the illusions of a runaway train that will ruin Europe worse than the Plague of the 1300s.
This current conundrum however will not define what will be the reality of tomorrow. As there are two many powerful heads in Europe sitting inside their own asses!
Denial of reality is not a sign of wisdom.
Obamas red line was virtual..... I mean...... bluff?? Thx
does a line, being red, have some cultural significance in greece? red being a much moar serious line than black or something? did he mean bread line? because that is the only line i see forming in greece.
There's a myth that Tyler Durden is from Eastern Europe or sumfink of the kind. I say, BS. That guy is 100% Murican.
Proof: He doesn't get someone might be telling the troof. Just doesn't get it at all.
He's a Murican.
Proof: He doesn't get someone might be telling the troof. Just doesn't get it at all.
Time will tell. Up to now, we've seen words from both sides. Nothing can be determined from words. Actions tell the tale, and soon, there will be action. Then we will know.
This ^ is exactly right, prepare for something because something is about to happen. In this spiral of shit since 2008, we have rarely been warned as fully that "something" is about to happen. Well, you've been warned..
It's just that you can only play Charlie Brown and run to kick the football only so often. So many disappointments since this Turning started, so many catalysts fizzled out. You get tired of it. But that's the nature of this game; it will go on until it doesn't and the cycle will start again.
It would be nice if Alexis and the rest of the jokers were telling the truth. Just for the novelty of the whole thing. But no one is holding their breath.
I cut my teeth in the finance business many years ago. We'd make a loan and when that person fell delinquent, we'd bring them in and 'flip' them in to a new loan. Of course we'd keep most of the new loan to pay off the old loan and send the client on their way with $40 in their pocket from their new $500 loan. This worked great for a while. But once the client had been flipped 4 or 5 times, they could no longer afford the loan. So when it inevitably came to 'I don't want another loan, I can't pay you' they werent't bluffing. Same with Greece.
It does buy you time to set up their life insurance policy though. ;)
Ha ha. True. It's been so long I forgot about that. AD&D and anything else we could pile on.
"To fashion a fresh mind-set that transcends national divides, dissolves the creditor-debtor distinction in favor of a pan-European perspective, and places the common European good above petty politics, dogma that proves toxic if universalized, and an us-versus-them mind-set."
I'm imagining a world where people forget Greece is in debt. Who's with me?! Anybody? Hello?
If we are to forget Greece then why not the rest of the world?
If we are all to forget debt then any money lent by your retirement fund will also be lost.
Then again we do have the non-sensical situation of bank deposits being at a negative rate of interest.
But please do have a look at the trillions upon trillions parked in tax havens just accumulating and vacuuming moe wealth for the few rather than a broad spectrum.
I was channeling Yanis, not advocating a jubilee...moral hazard is for pussies. ;)
Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people sharing all the world
John Lennon
Merkel and Hollande should come up with a plan for full fiscal and political union. If such a union is ever implemented, that is when Tspiras and Varoufakis are executed.
pretty much every single politician in this circus is dreaming of exactly this, of course they all think that they will get some position of great power inside that even bigger monster, but this is a common feature among sociopaths, since they cant really comprehend that other people really exist, they could never comprehend _themselves_ not being made emperor. they will give their own mothers, their left nut, their firstborn, and happily their own countries, for a chance at even more absolute power in a pan-auropean empire.
the fact that it is such a horrifically bad idea makes it seem to most of us normal people, that it is some kind of way-out-there impossibility. in fact, it is what all of these miserable assholes is dreaming of.
Greece will not cross the red line
Russia will not cross the red line
I suspect that Europe may well cross the red line
And the bankers in the US will be doing lines.
"We are determined to clash with mighty vested interests in order to reboot Greece and gain our partners’ trust. "
There's a pretty long history of that particular strategy not ending well for the leader of the not-vested. Avoid window seats.
America was the right concept. Now, the ideas of the founding fathers need to be applied to the entire world.
In order to "fight" a "world order," you have to create one yourself. America as the "bastion of freedom" couldn't withstand the centuries-long reach of the world elite power structure.
dismantle the power structure.
Or it was a bunch of smugglers tired of not being the one taking a cut. All a matter of perspective.
"The biggest gang I know is called the government. And a gang is a weapon that you trade your mind in for."
Yanis Varoufakis, the new Finance Minister of Greece, has a very interesting view of how the current global economic problems developed and why they continue to get worse instead of better.
In a four part video interview with Varoufakis, he explains, in metaphorical terms, how the United States has played the major role in collapsing the global economies and why Europe’s economies, through their own mismanagement, have little hope of surviving another looming financial crisis.
Anyone who thinks this guy will cave to the Troika doesn't know his history.
http://www.globaldeflationnews.com/the-global-minotaur-a-global-finance-...
lets hope this government is for real. the bankers are evil. debt is evil. what do u do with something or someone that is evil. nuff said
If you want to your debt you can keep your debt.
If you want your doctor you can keep your doctor.
I fear the red line is more likely a red herring. I wish that were not so, but I have followed the prognostications of James Rikards for a few years now and he has been pretty much dead on target. Here is what he is saying to his subscribers.
"During the event, Jim’s going to explain why, exactly, Greece will not break away from the European Union -- despite the clamor in the mainstream media. Most newspapers and pundits believe the so-called “Grexit” will be a major event that could create a financial panic.
Jim wholeheartedly disagrees. Even better, he believes the noise and volatility gives you a “no-brainer” way to profit, if you position yourself early enough."
"Let justice reign even if all the rascals in the world should perish from it"
- Immanuel Kant, Zum Ewigen Frieden
That's my Kant quote for the day. God I loved that bastard when I was younger. I was the only one in my class. Sure, his moral concepts had some major flaws. But fuck you! I still love my Kant.
If it would help, I would gladly raid my piggy bank and pay into the "Help Greece" fund. It would be worth the sacrifice to bring down the EU organisation once and for all. Let the other nations follow.
People must realise we have an opportunity to clear out the criminal elites of Europe, ranging from politicians to bureaucrats to bankers, to the judiciary, and to corrupt corporations. We must take back our rights and make a better world. The Western system does not have much life left. Once the banks fail, rebirth can start.
Too bad few people in EU will read this well written piece. These Eurocrats could learn a few things from this democratically elected government. Sometimes it is the one that you least expect that come up with the best solutions
I truly hope this man means what he says.
The days of banks offering to lend "so much money you'll never be in debt again" need to end.
The answer to debt never is, never was and never will be ever more debt. Varoufakis seems to be the only politician on the planet who realises this.
I see the EU knees buckling on the Greek demands. The EU talks tough but gives in. They always do.
The EU is a bunch of nervous cowards.
i can't believe how much they talk and quibble. it is endless. blah biddy blah biddy blah. egad, it's nauseatingly endless.
It's the only thing that the Eurocrats know how to do, becasue they've actually started believing their own rhetoric. They cannot imagine another course of action because of their groupthink.
Those people are dangerous, but they are usually pussies who you can dispose of with a few well placed 9mm rounds.
if i ever start talking that much just shoot me
Fuck the EU.
I hope the Greeks kept those old Drachma engraved plates, and are using them. Did somebody order a large batch of ink on Alibaba?
Isn't it strange that the country of Kant is let by a cunt?
Game theory simplified;
The parties are in a Nash equilibrium when no one party will alter its behavior as long as it thinks the other parties are not going to alter theirs.
So a social "programme" in Greece is 'the blonde'? ;)
this reinforces my old conviction that in any environment, you cannot beat stupid.
Yanis Varoufakis, a politician who speaks the truth. How rare. Jack Nicholson's famous movie line "You can't handle the truth" comes to mind.
It will be interesting to see how this all unfolds.
Greeks!!!, What is your profession?. ... Ah hoo! Ahoo!!!
as poker players would say - you can't bluff stupid players...
OpEd in NYT because Fed (US tax payer) will bail Greece. Audit the Fed!
Find a way to pay off the debt?? WTF doesn't Varoufakis know that is sooo old school, like maybe the 1800's?
Surely he can see by the examples of Japan and the US the only way to deal with overwhelming debt is through use of massive increases in moar debt.
Didn't obama have a few red lines too.
Oh-bomba
Translation: "we don't want more debt, so just give us more free money without conditions."
I wouldn't be surprised if this guy has an Obamaphone.
-- "...or else we'll hold our breath until you turn blue."
I rather liked the OpEd by Mr. Stark in the FT better than this bit of Gaming the Game. You might have to register for your limited set of freebie reads from the FT first - they are worth every penny :-).
February 11, 2015 6:26 pm http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/e08ec622-ad28-11e4-a5c1-00144feab7de.html...
The historical and cultural differences that divide Europe’s union
Jürgen Stark
Oh yeah one more thing. ZH got me hooked on the Real Vision TV series (courtesy of the Bass Interview) - and this is another good one. On topic: David Hay notes that for investing : Stock price / Sales is harder to *GAME* than PE (where most US companies are bloating up on debt to reduce their float (number of shares outstanding) thus increasing EPS artificially at the expense of balance sheet fragility as Mr. Hay notes).
Stock price / Sales : https://vimeo.com/119339741 at 31:00 'ish
US : 1.65
EU : 0.75 (per Mr. Hay)
Thus EU stocks are on a 50% off sale...
You might have to register for your limited set of freebie reads from the FT first -
If you're worried about cookies, then view the site while in a "private" browser - CTL-SHIFT-P in FF.
If you hit a limit, just restart the "private" browser and all counters are reset...
As soon as someone says "I'm not bluffing" you know you can go all in against them.
Yeah, especially when they draw the red line in the sand!
Arrest Papandreou.
Publicize his bank acct info and all paperwork with his signatures on Greek loan / EU admission papers.
Send his head along with all copies to Brussels.
Invite Goldman officials to Greece for an "exploratory conference."
Repeat.
" Europe is doing what is right - for the people of those countries that have all the power and leverage"
Sorry Tylers, on this one you are wrong. What is ethically right, as Kant so clearly proved, will be actions which are generalizable to all (i.e. independent of an individual's particluar stake in the decision). All moral agents, in all situations, must be willing to agree that maxim underlying their action be generalizable to all moral agents in all places and at all times (i.e. a univeral law, with the same binding nature in the realm of ethics that the law of gravity has in physics). The very fact of distinguishing moral agents based on their circumstances (country with power) is exactly what Kant showed to be morally incorrect.
If Varoufakis will truly following the Kantian principle, then those using a game-theoretic analysis will be very mistaken as to what he (and Greece) will feel obliged to do.
" Europe is doing what is right - for the people of those countries that have all the power and leverage"
Sorry Tylers, on this one you are wrong. What is ethically right, as Kant so clearly proved, will be actions which are generalizable to all (i.e. independent of an individual's particluar stake in the decision). All moral agents, in all situations, must be willing to agree that maxim underlying their action be generalizable to all moral agents in all places and at all times (i.e. a univeral law, with the same binding nature in the realm of ethics that the law of gravity has in physics). The very fact of distinguishing moral agents based on their circumstances (country with power) is exactly what Kant showed to be morally incorrect.
If Varoufakis will truly following the Kantian principle, then those using a game-theoretic analysis will be very mistaken as to what he (and Greece) will feel obliged to do.
Yanis is a sub-prime debt mortgage broker, he gets paid on commission by the crooked bank promoting a social agenda on behalf of duped investors.
Yanis will literally "say anything" to push through another loan.
Good article. Great speech by Varouvakis. Only one question:
Tyler, you were being sarcastic when you wrote "... were there no European newspaper willing to accept the Greek finance minister's Op-Ed? One wonders that he had to go all the way to the bastion of the left... in the United States....", right?
Good article. Great speech by Varouvakis. Only one question:
Tyler, you were being sarcastic when you wrote "... were there no European newspaper willing to accept the Greek finance minister's Op-Ed? One wonders that he had to go all the way to the bastion of the left... in the United States....", right?
Varoufakis is a total legend. A man who has something interesting to say and is also a government minister.
He is raising the bar for politics all over the world.
Go Varoufakis!
Varoufakis is a total legend. A man who has something interesting to say and is also a government minister.
He is raising the bar for politics all over the world.
Go Varoufakis!