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Ukraine "Truce" Fails: Withdrawal Deadline Passes, Debaltseve Situation Deteriorating
UPDATE: *POROSHENKO SAYS UN MUST NOT ALLOW FULL-SCALE WAR IN EUROPE
As the game of chicken between Greece and the Eurogroup hots up, it appears another - potentially far more deadly - is escalating in Ukraine as neither side is willing to follow through on the terms of the Minsk Summit peace deal - removing heavy weaponry from the frontlines - as a key deadline passes without agreement. As The Guardian reports, The Ukrainian military have stated that "as soon as the militants cease fire, the Ukrainian side will begin to withdraw heavy weaponry from the frontline," and the pro-Russian separatists proclaim, "We do not have the right [to stop fighting for Debaltseve]," adding that as far as the truce, "we have everything ready for a mutual withdrawal. We will not do anything unilaterally – that would make our soldiers targets."
As The Guardian reports, and Interfax confirms, the situation in Debaltseve is deteriorating...
Kiev on Tuesday reported artillery strikes overnight around the key transportation hub of Debaltseve while the situation in the rest of the conflict zone appeared to be calm.
An Associated Press reporter heard sustained shelling around Debaltseve – where government troops are encircled – on Tuesday morning, some coming from Grad rocket launchers.
A senior rebel representative told Reuters that the separatists cannot “morally” stop fighting for control of the town.
Denis Pushilin also said rebels could not withdraw heavy weaponry, as set out in the deal, unless Ukrainian forces did so as well.
“We do not have the right [to stop fighting for Debaltseve]. It’s even a moral thing. It’s internal territory,” Pushilin said in the rebel stronghold of Donetsk.
“We have to respond to fire, to work on destroying the enemy’s fighting positions.”
Asked about plans to carry out the agreement to withdraw big guns, he said: “We are ready at any time, we have everything ready for a mutual withdrawal. We will not do anything unilaterally – that would make our soldiers targets.”
As AP reports, Russia-backed rebels in eastern Ukraine claimed Tuesday to have taken the key transportation hub of Debaltseve as both parties faced a deadline to start pulling back heavy weapons from the front line.
Fierce fighting on Tuesday appeared to be focused on Debaltseve, a government-held town surrounded by rebel forces that both sides claim to be on their side of the cease-fire line. The issue was not resolved under a cease-fire agreement negotiated last week by the leaders of Ukraine, Russia, Germany and France.
Separatist leaders said in remarks carried by the rebel mouthpiece Donetsk News Agency on Tuesday afternoon that their forces have pushed the Ukrainian army out of Debaltseve, gaining control over most of the town.
...
Rupert Colville, spokesman for the U.N. High Commissioner for Human Rights, told a briefing in Geneva on Tuesday that the UN is "alarmed" by reports of continued shelling in the areas and have not yet been able to get reliable information on the casualties there and the wellbeing of civilians.
"It is unclear how many civilians are still there," he said. "We are particularly concerned about the civilians trapped in the area - we believe there may be a few thousand hiding in cellars, struggling to get food, water and other basic necessities."
RT @loogunda: Gas pipe line damaged in #Svitlodarsk area @HromadskeTV pic.twitter.com/brGskT7BfN http://t.co/ALOgSZz6Q0
— Muschelschloss ? ? (@Muschelschloss) February 17, 2015
mashable: Russia-backed rebels claim to capture key rail hub in Ukraine. http://t.co/ivevmbr0Of pic.twitter.com/OTjb8lwAqu
— Jerem Owen (@Shop_OwnerMark) February 17, 2015
Report: Soldiers near Debaltseve ask for help, say they could all be killed http://t.co/QYB7mp82YT pic.twitter.com/34TzXL6mSh
— UNIAN.info (@UnianInfo) February 17, 2015
- *DONETSK REBELS SAY HUNDREDS OF GOVT SOLDIERS SURRENDERED: IFX
- *POROSHENKO TOLD MERKEL EU MUST RESPOND TO REBEL, RUSSIA ACTIONS
As the following AP clip shows, there are no signs of Ukraine weapons withdrawal at all...
As The Guardian reports, neither side is willing to move first...
Ukrainian government troops and Russia-backed rebels failed to start pulling back heavy weaponry from the frontline in eastern Ukraine on Tuesday as a deadline to do so passed.
Under a ceasefire agreement negotiated by the leaders of Ukrae, Russia, Germany and France last week, the warring sides were to begin withdrawing heavy weapons from the front line on Tuesday.
Anatoliy Stelmakh, a Ukrainian military spokesman, said in televised comments early on Tuesday that the separatists continued to attack their positions overnight and that the pullout hinged on the ceasefire being fully observed.
“As soon as the militants cease fire, the Ukrainian side will begin to withdraw heavy weaponry from the frontline,” he said.
* * *
So despite the market's kneejerk exuberance last week, it seems the Minsk Summit peace deal is about as effective as the last peace deal... time for more sanctions and costs...
- *POROSHENKO CALLS FOR `TOUGH' EU REACTION TO DEBALTSEVE ATTACKS
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After Debaltseve taken, Mariupol is screwed. Then it's on to Kharkiv.
Wow, what a surprise. Fuck Kiev and their hunger for war
Debaltsevo is about to fall to the rebels, with 1/4 of the Ukrainian army.
The Saker has this and other stories.
http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.com/
Where are the pics from 1995? Or from even earlier than that..... Maybe one of Stalin shaking hands with Churchill.....
That's sure to cause an uproar in CONgress.
Merkel gave Putin an ultimatum: stop running guns into Ukraine or face crippling additional sanctions.
I expect this to wind down soon, but if it doesn't, things get very interesting.
Poroshenko should move out of Ukraine for his own safety. He can run the show from the United States.
This will also save the US taxpayers the expense of flying a helicopter to evacuate him during the fall of Kiev.
Another huge military disaster for the Ukraine. Porkyschenko should fire his US advisors, who are used to beating down on lightly armed illterate ragheads, instead of tough, smart, motivated miners, steelworkers and ex military fighting to save their homes from Shell Fracking and Monsanto GMO.
But wait, Porky is a USSA puppet.... so, the Ukie pro US forces will continue to lose, meeting Lucifer earlier than expected.
.
Ukrainian troops surrender by the hundreds
http://fortruss.blogspot.com/2015/02/ukrainian-troops-surrender-by-hundr...
Even the Kiev Yatzi media aren't able to keep secret what is happening in Debaltsevo:
Ukrainian General Staff Confirms Debaltsevo Force Collapse
http://fortruss.blogspot.com/2015/02/ukrainian-general-staff-confirms.html
"Our HQ has fled, we are facing annihilation" -- Junta battalion commander's frantic call on live TV
http://fortruss.blogspot.com/2015/02/our-hq-has-fled-we-are-facing.html
must....fluff....putin
Nobody is stopping you, kittycat.
It can be your problem. It is not every one's problem.
why so coy...you're the fluffer-in-chief?
So the Ukrainian military isn't in collapse? Do tell.
By the way, of course Russia is helping the rebels. They'd be idiots not to, and we'd be idiots to think they're not. And of course Putin is a scary dude. You don't get to be the top enforcer for the Russian Mob by being such a nice guy.
I'm criticizing my own (USA) nation's shamelful role in this bloodbath. Nasty and corrupt as Yanukovich has always been, and Yuschenko and Kuchma before him, the Ukranian people have had a rotten time of it since independence and are rightfully full up with corrupt bullshit. The answer, however, is not for Nudelman and Pyatt to foist off the acolytes of the Galician SS on them, led by the few oligarchs to be found more corrupt than the old regimes. Eventually an authentic Maidan-type uprising would have happened, and maybe somebody less venal the Yatseniuk and Poroshenko might have come out on top. Yanukovich let the Maidan protests go on for months and there was very little violence until the Death's Head hooligans showed up, freshly spiffed up with new boots and US NGO/CIA dollars spilling out of their cauliflower ears.
I don't care who you are, you can't let Nazis do whatever they want in your house. Look at what they did in the Trade Unions building in Odessa last Spring, if you have any doubts about whom we're talking about here.
The whole point of US involvement here is the same as it is in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, Yemen, Somalia, and everywhere else we are stirring up trouble. To find nations on top of deposits of strategic resources or on the trade routes they have to travel to get to market, on the perimeter of Russia, China and the E.U. or their "spheres of influence," as we keep attacking Chinese investments in Africa. Within those societies, exploit the latent fault lines in any society. Cultivate the very worst, most extreme, unreasonable, bloodthirsty and terrifying elements, egg them on, give them money, training, weapons and intel, and turn them loose. All those people can do is destroy. They can't build anything, they can never surrender because nobody would accept their surrender; monsters like that, any sensible person just shoots them.
And why would we do something that horrible? Read Zbigniew Brzezinski's book "The Grand Chessboard." He lays it all out, in santiized terms of course. For a Galician, he's remarkably bloodless in his prose. The point is to use America's one remaining exceptional trait; the ability to project military power anywhere in the world at any time. Nobody else has this. So, that's the tool we have left to us to preserve our global dominance even as our financial system collapses due to the obvious internal contradictions of a system based on infinite growth in a finite world.
We've identified the potential rivals to our supremacy: Russia, China, and the E.U. So we're establishing control over their sources of energy, either by boots on the ground, or by placing a dogshit-filled flaming dumpster in the way. It's a lot cheaper than invading everybody the old-fashioned way, and that never works for long anyhow. This way, we don't even have to win militarily, which is handy, since we don't do that much anymore either.
So. My disapproval of that equates to "fluffing Putin?"
Fuck you.
yes and you're about to take a pay cut. the ruble is living on borrowed time once oil resumes its downtrend.
Shale is dead already. Just so you know...
http://www.nasdaq.com/markets/crude-oil.aspx
the uptick is merely a correction of the oversold.
It doesn't matter. Shale is dead, so US will be back to the importing levels of 2005...
as long as russia are fucked that's all that matters.
Don't get all that wet and excited. US importing more oil will only increase its price. After all, oil is a fungible commodity...
At last some sound remarks. Tough partially.
I'm really amused how good reputation Putin has here. I dont know why. He is responsible for killing hundreds press journalists. For mass murders in Chechnya. He has set up blowing the blocks of flats where many innocent Russian people were killed. It was the KGB operation which gave him the presidency. And so on
Putin is like other leaders of our world. It really doesnt matter. USA, Russia, China, UE. They are using the same means of working.
But there is one thing really important. The Ukrainian war is staged. Set up from the beginning. Putin has never lost control over Ukraine. Two years ago there were many, all in reality, oligarchs supporting Putin. You could nothing in this corrupted country if you did not belonged to ruling class surrounding corrupted government of Janukovich.
Do you think that it has changed anything in Ukraine? No. Those oligarchs are still there. With their wealth and power. What they has done is just change of the labels. They are now pretending to be pro UE or pro NATO.
Look at Ukrainian army. All the staff was trained in former USSR and you have to remember that in previous 25 years all Ukrainian governments where depending on Russia. All the economy and politics. They were closely tied.
Only plain fool can now believe that all these people has changed in few months in the spring 2014. It is just impossible! The military generals, the key industry owners are the same. You really cannot say that Ukraine is fighting with rebels or Russia in the name of West interests. What you really see is corrupted Ukrainian government pretending to fight. What you really see is staged war conducted in the name much bigger politics.
No matter what side of this conflict you are choosing. You will choose wrong.
What you really see are preparations for big global financial crisis. They need excuses to make next steps. You are observing e.g. lowering of WTI crude. And you think: "Oh, ok it must be temporary. After shale will be done or something, they will boom again". But you are wrong. Because there is one really good way to screw up the economy and to further reduce demand. It is the war. Or the sanctions.
Greece, Ukraine are these steps. I was done many times before. And it will be done this time. They are working together. They dont mind nationalities. They are creating their own caste with their own globals goals.
it's bunker mentality. many of the posters here are soviet apparatchiks
I think they do not mind as long as more die either side
before more awake
clear the territories
less long term resistance to crimes
Well, that didn't take very long!
Brother in Law (Moscow) was expecting at least a fortnight (yesterday). http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-02-16/ron-paul-warns-us-militarism-will-end-one-way-or-another#comment-5793187
Obviously those who want "Their War" were very scared that "peace might break out" . . . . .
Major war in Europe? That must be why 'the market' has fled gold.
Nothing like sellng 10,000 Gold contracts short in 5 minutes on CRIMEX to knock down prices..... Never seen so much naked shorting ever.
Oh, I dunno... 2011 was pretty 'special' too.
Puppet Stooge Merkel has ZERO credibility to give anyone and certainly not Putin an ultimatum.
That's BS!
German business might give Stooge Merkel an ultimatum.
Go argue with the Wall Street Journal. They have an international news reporting system.
The Putin fluffers around here, not so much.
For FUCK SAKE kaiser you throw Rupert Murdoch at me!
All Ukraine needs is a level playing field.
They are fighting for their own country, in their own country.
I wish more people had guts enough to do that.
Ukraine gets no sympathy from me after shelling innocent civilians in Donetsk and burning innocent civilians to death in Odessa.
The Zionist Oligarchs however should get special treatment. Perhaps the medieval "drawn and quartered" technique, with lots of smelling salts to make sure the oligarchs don't pass out while their own entrails are lovingly wrapped around their necks...
.
For the most part, the Ukraine already is a level 'playing' field.
Yep, against the US-supported nazis in Kiev and Lviv.
Give them a little more time. I think most Ukrainians have had about enough with the Yats-Porky-Nuland clown show.
If you want a level playing field don't pick on guys 10X your size, and then expect others to save your ass afterwards. This is not a soccer game...
The leader of DPR was wounded in battle today. This tells me they are legit. Show me just ONE western leader willing to pick up a rifle and face inbound, just one.
Their guy seems to have guts.
Our guy seems to like nuts and butts.
...
Zakharchenko. Nope, I don't think the three stooges (Barry, Kerry, Joe) compare very favorably at all.
Excellent video of Zakharchenko. What a stud. The Uke Junta is so f'd.
What Ultimatum? What if Putin decides to ban German Car imports? Watch Merkel run....
LMAO, Porsche had increased sales in Russia in 2014.
Merkel is in no position to give ultimatums to anybody. She should worry more about how Germany is going to pay to keep EU together...
I'd have thought the Greek situation might be of more immediate importance, especially in view of German "exposure".
After all Greece is (was??) a significant importer of German weapons . . . . .
Greece is just the first in a long line of Euro wretched economies waiting for German subsidies...
Crippling additional sanctions on Russia will necessarily mean real harm to German economy. Is Merkel prepared to inflict additional cost on its own companies just to save Ukrainian government, which is a failed construct from the beginning anyway? I guess if kanzlerine wishes to embark on a fail train, she's most welcome, but why German business has to pay for that. I don't get it.
News flash to Germans: most stuff is made in China nowadays. Ask people in US, they know better...
there is right and there is wrong. sometimes you have to stand up for what is right. cue crippling sanctions.
.
Fixed it for you.
Sometimes you have to kick a cat.
Your principle is right. Your values are wrong, though...
IT IS TIME FOR A MATHIAS STROMBERGER PREDICTION:
"When in the outskirts of the forest the iron road will be finished, and there the iron horse will be seen, a war will begin, to last twice two years ...It would be fought with iron fortresses that move without horses". Two or three decades after the first war it will come one a Second War still larger. Almost all the nations of the world will be involved. Millions of men will die, without being soldiers. The fire will fall from the sky and many great cities will be destroyed. And after the end of the Second Great War, a third universal conflagration will come, so that it will determine everything. There will be weapons totally new. In one day, more men will die than in all the previous wars. The battles will be accomplished with artificial weapons. Gigantic catastrophes will happen. With the open eyes, the nations of the planet will go through these catastrophes. They won't know what is happening, and those that know and tell, will be silenced. Everything will be different from before, and in many places the Earth will be a great cemetery. The third war will be the end of many nations".
PLEASE GOOGLE THE MAN, YOU MIGHT LEARN A LOT :-)
MATHIAS STROMBERGER quick summaty :
A man from the 18th century
Stormberger, a cowherder by profession, was born in the 18th century, in Rabenstein, Germany. He was noted for his visions and was feared and hated by the local people. He gave some uncanny prophecies about wars that would be fought in the 20th century, the depression, and inventions that would be created.
Now Stormberger’s prophecies were not general, but were very specific. For example, Stormberger gave the signs when WWI would take place. According to Arthur Prieditis book Fate of the Nations, he prophesied that: "When in the outskirts of the forest the iron road will be finished, and there the iron horse will be seen, a war will begin, to last twice two years ...(p. 372)."
Now World War I began August 1, 1914 when the iron road, the railroad, between Kalenneck and Deggendoef was finished. He also stated that the war would last 4 years--"twice two years." Arthur Prieditis’s book states: "It would be fought with iron fortresses that move without horses…(p. 372)." These were the tanks that were first used during WWI. The reader must keep in mind that these prophecies were given 200 years before they actually occurred.
He stated that right after WWI, there would come a time when money had no value. One would need a great deal of money to buy a loaf of bread. This did occur in Germany after WWI. The great American prophet Cayce also prophesied of this great depression.
Now if one thinks the prophecies of Stormberger were a fluke, then one should see his prophecy concerning WWII. He states in his prophecy that two or three decades after WWI, there would come another Great War, which would involve most of the nations of the world. Millions of men would die and many cities of the world would be destroyed. Now this Great War was WWII.
There were others in past centuries that also prophesied of WWII, such as Nostradamus and Pastor Bartholomaeus Holtzhauser (16th century), St. Oldie, Miracle Fatima, Seeress Regina, the German Cassandra to list a few from the book Fate of Nations.
"You, my children, won't experience the largest mischief, you, my grandchildren, won't also experience it, but the third stock, that will easily experience it."
"Over night it will take place - in a pub in Zwiesel many people will be together, and outside the soldiers will ride over the bridge." ........
"The people will run out of the forest. Those, who hide themselves at the "Fuchsenriegel" or at the "Falkenstein", remain spared. Who survives must have an iron heading. The people become ill, and nobody can help them... however it will continue, and what follows then, is the end of the world. Sky and earth burn, because it is the time, when everything comes to an end. And this time will be, when the wild hunt with fire and sulphur roars over the country. But it is still long time, till it will happen, then no humans will know anymore, where "Zwiesel" and where "Rabenstein" (German towns) have been. Of all frights the this will be the last. When the people fall off the bank like the flies off the wall, the last time begins. It will be horrible." ........
"But when however someone at the whole Danube stream finds still another cow, then she is worth it to be attached with a silver bell by the owner." ....
Here's one from Nostradamous:
NOSTRADAMUS: Century 8, Quatrain 28 "The copies of gold & silver inflated. . .
."
The copies of gold & silver inflated,
which after the theft were thrown into the lake
at the discovery that all is exhausted & dissipated by debt.
All scrips and bonds will be wiped out.
Now that's a damn close prediction about what is going to happen soon. This from a
guy who lived in the 1500s.
(credit to ZHer nope1592 (the guy with geitner behind bars for his avatar) for pointing this out.
I'm sure there are a lot of very old secret society freaks who might leak the odd long range plan.
Just who these guys were worshiping is anyone's guess -the secret societies and their freaky mysteries that seem to be obsessed with planetary movements etc go back before Babylon. Planetary movements can be forecast. If your sick cult believes the movements will "magnify" an event then they will plan accordingly. Not only China thinks in terms of centuries.
Whether you or I believe this is irrelevant. Its what the freaks believe that's relevant. Once thats clear a lot of events and their timing makes sense in a way.
Further the secret societies are supposed to 'warn' the masses in atleast oblique ways. Today we get Hollywood yester year they got Nostradamus.
You can learn a lot from cows
I see thew NSA pedophiles have downvoted you.
Saker does good work. If you guys are able, send a few FRNs his way.
"Fuck Kiev and their hunger for war"
Fuck Nuland and the PNAC Revolutionaries hunger for war too.
They are the ones who installed the fat murdering zio chocolate king bastard.
There were 36 to 48 hours of calm...
then to Kiev. No wonder Porky king took all of his family out of Ukraine.
yeahh... no wonder why putin and lavron daugthers are hiding in europe as well
Welcome to Fight Club.
Enjoy the downvotes and reply if you have any balls.
I'll wait for your handlers to provide your response.
"nice ass" - i was instructed to reply. Sorry, we are low on cash so we can't afford anyone smarter. These days we are religiously betting against sp500 as instructed by grand minds of ZH.
Well if your handlers quit stockpiling FRNs and went the way of the PM, you'd be awash in a commodity highly undervalued and repressed.
Poro fears his Kiev enemies much more...his days as pres might be numbered.
90% of Debaltsevo now taken by novorussian forces according to reports. Mopping up the remnants of the pro-US forces in the city.
Wonder what they'll find there?
I can only imagine this will spread west.
Maiupol is at least 80% anti-Kiev
most afraid to speak cos extreme privat radicals there
RealTime-UKRAINE: —Alexandr Zakharchenko presser 14/02/15 ( New Minsk agreements come into effect at 00:00 15/02)
— NAF troops will maintain ceasefire along the entire territory of DPR except the Debaltsevo ( there will be no ceasefire there in case if UAF troops will attempt a breakthrough, and most likely they will)
— UA broder guards will not be allowed to control the borders, only DPR Border Guard service, DPR is ready to make a deal about it with UA
— DPR parliament works on the project of amendments to the UA constitution regarding their “special status”
— Republics interpret the “special status” as their factual independence
— It is their goal to liberate the entire territory of the former Donetsk oblast, doesn’t matter if they’ll have to do it in peaceful or military way.
video+more here: http://www.degaray.com/?p=4970
RealTime-UKRAINE: —Alexandr Zakharchenko presser 14/02/15 ( New Minsk agreements come into effect at 00:00 15/02)
— NAF troops will maintain ceasefire along the entire territory of DPR except the Debaltsevo ( there will be no ceasefire there in case if UAF troops will attempt a breakthrough, and most likely they will)
— UA broder guards will not be allowed to control the borders, only DPR Border Guard service, DPR is ready to make a deal about it with UA
— DPR parliament works on the project of amendments to the UA constitution regarding their “special status”
— Republics interpret the “special status” as their factual independence
— It is their goal to liberate the entire territory of the former Donetsk oblast, doesn’t matter if they’ll have to do it in peaceful or military way.
video+more here: http://www.degaray.com/?p=4970
if they bought their tanks from France, they definitely have a reverse gear
this is obviously why the Equity indexes r rallying and why the phony paper Gold and Silver markets collapsed this morning have nor recovered.
The tend seems to be to smack down PM's some time in advance of geopolitical
news that makes them rise again.
TPTB have a range they want them in, for the moment.
Yup, like just before the Swiss announced their peg back in 2011.
What - Nuland/Nudelman/whatever not picking up her cell?
Porky want some, Porky get some.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/02/17/state-department-spokeswoman-...
Makes perfect sense given her worldview of global socialist.
I keep thinking about how WW-1 started and the ego's of the various leaders have, if anything, gotten bigger. If we were smart we would stay far, far away but Obozo&Co. will bend us over and send us in just for a photo op....
WW1 was not about ego
it was planned before that...
Depends on your definition of Fail.
The USSA don't want Peace.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGPD0ZBiMs0
Generals gathered in their masses
Just like witches at black masses
Evil minds that plot destruction
Sorcerers of death's construction
In the fields the bodies burning
As the war machine keeps turning
Death and hatred to mankind
Poisoning their brainwashed minds... Oh Lord yeah!
Politicians hide themselves away
They only started the war
Why should they go out to fight?
They leave that role to the poor, yeah
Time will tell on their power minds
Making war just for fun
Treating people just like pawns in chess
Wait 'till their Judgment day comes, yeah!
Now in darkness, world stops turning
Ashes where the bodies burning
No more war pigs of the power
Hand of God has struck the hour
Day of Judgment, God is calling
On their knees the war pigs crawling
Begging mercy for their sins
Satan, laughing, spreads his wings
Oh Lord yeah!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4oZXfrf18Y
Holy shit, I was in sixth grade and it's worse than ever!
Sadly, not much has changed, eh? In fact, gotten worse by many measures.
New 9/11 Audio: FAA employees say Secret Service told them “Flight 93 hit Camp David”
aaaaaaaaaaand it's gone
What do we think the over/under is on when a tactical nuclear weapon is used??
Mid-march?
Who would use one*? Russia, possibly, if NATO looks like it's going to invade. But I can't see even NATO being that stupid.
My understanding is Ukraine doesn't have any (or, at least, is not supposed to).
So who does that leave?
*if nukes start flying around, I doubt it'll only be 'one', of course.
Nukes are like potato chips in that regard. You can never have just one.
Trust me, nato is that stupid...well at least the anglo part of it. The anglo world is so full of unjustified hubris they will kill us all if they cant get world domination complete. Watch.
Its not just the leaders either. If we admit tactical defeat millions of brainwashed yahoos will demand a nuclear strike even in the face of MAD
Time for some Nudelmans cookies.
Hey John Baird, if you think resigning is going to get you out of your war crimes trial, think again.
"must not allow"....
LOL! It woud appear that humans have indeed stopped evolving...
fuck em.
-LoP
Quite a good read and shows very well the direct involvement of the Russian military.
The report just hit the news in Germany and should together with the latest developments hopefully open the eyes of a few more. IMO Putin has not the slightest intrest in a prolonged deescalation. Furthermore he is actively fueling the war and is bringing death and misery to a neighboring country.
https://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-and-europe/2015/02/17/origin-of-artil...
Tj Eff One
Yer maz got baz.
Kind sir...if the military was actually involved...there would be nothing left of the pisspoor, ill prepared army thrown together last minute by the junta. Please do not make us spit up coffee through our nose. It Putin wanted a war, your friends in Ukropia would feel it. I think the man has been very patient with the likes of Yatsenyuk and Yarosh.
" shows very well the direct involvement of the Russian military. "
uhhh, where precisely does it show that, sherlock.?
riiiiight, cos it's in Russia's interests to have a failed state with or without NATO bases on their doorstep, isnt it? The only ones who want to prolong this madness are Regime Changers-R-Us and it's pet puppet in Kiev.
terrible source proves nothing
as if it mattered after Kiev aggression
when intentional cleansing of Russian types is fact...
is it important to you?
As with all things, consider the source:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eliot_Higgins
"In 2012, when Higgins began blogging the Syrian civil war, he was an unemployed finance and admin worker who spent his days taking care of his child at home."
and:
"Higgins has no background or training in weapons and is entirely self-taught, saying that "Before the Arab spring I knew no more about weapons than the average Xbox owner. I had no knowledge beyond what I'd learned from Arnold Schwarzenegger and Rambo."[1] He has never been to Syria and has no friends or family there, and cannot speak or read Arabic."
"My life fades, the vision dims..."
What, and leave a Nazi rail depot on their flank? Even Sherman was bright enough to put a stop to that shit in Atlanta.
Up til now, the impression I got was that Poroshenko was throwing the Nazis and private Oligarch battalions under the bus entirely, which would have been the smart move. What's he up to? Is planning to run face-first into a brick wall for a third time?
Sherman was total war criminal
He was never a defender
He would fit as Kiev helper
What he did made good military sense. He was given the task of conquering the South and he did it, by destroying the infrastructure needed by the South to wage war. There's moral arguments that can be made in either direction but the effectiveness is beyond debate.
This is worth reading, even if you don't agree;
http://pando.com/2014/11/20/the-war-nerd-why-sherman-was-right-to-burn-a...
You are correct from a strategic standpoint. The South did not anticipate the level of incursion or brutality - acts of desperation really, that the North was bent on carrying out. It is war after all.
No moral argument for blatant aggression
The South was right
maybe you can argue for morals of carpetbaggers arrived to Ukraine also
much less the Sherman types...
Neither side in Ukraine has a culture that's dependent on the labor of literal slaves.
I'm still with the LPR and DPR though.
Better study the true history of slavery in US.
including Lincoln's real position
After civil war end there remained slaves in the north, including whites.
that war was never about slavery
less than 5% white southerners owned slaves
and there were many blacks who owned slaves
slavery in us was never a construct of Southern people
It was business run from Amsterdam
btw there is those masters of Kiev expect slavery of Ukraine and submit or die
with plan to remove or eliminate...
you missed that?
Like I said, I'm against Poroshenko and his various bands of miserable conscripts and evil goons.
There are a lot more arguments against it you missed. Britain and Brasil both ended slavery without it coming to war, a feat that the North didn't seem to care to replicate. And of course solving the slavery problem with war led to Reconstruction and Jim Crow rather than a genuine peace which might have been sustained if the problem had been approached differently.
There's a time for peace and a time for war, but as for us humans we're fallible to a fault.
That was a different era and war crimes did not exist. What Sherman did was appropriate for warfare at the time.
The only thing more immoral than starting a war is losing a war. Ponder on that when you condemn people in the past.
Lee did not think it appropiate
your last statement is inane
many times the immoral have won against righteous
When I see the term 'government troops' I automatically default to cheering for the other side
You know once this war in Ukraine fully escalates out of control and we are in the middle of it........things back home will get worse. Ukraine will be the catalyst for the powers that be.......
East Ukraine is lost to Kiev they need to simply recognise Donetsk and Lugansk independence now and MAYBE the war won't reach Kiev and the rest of Europe.
Conversely, Kiev is not lost to the rest of Ukraine and payback will be a bitch. Porky will and should die for his actions.
The funny thing is that he is probably as misinformed about what is really going on as your average joe. He went to Minsk insisting the Russian army was in Ukraine and there was no Debaltsevo pocket. He's nothing but a pawn and soon to be fallguy. The obvious takeaway is that there will be a next and even if that guy goes down the real PTB won't feel a thing.
it's not going to reach europe.
europe is going to embrace western UE. a piece for PL, HU, and RO.
porky making chocolates in israel and yats selling them there. lol
The fighting around that part of the region never stopped. There were thousands of Ukies surrounded there. The folks at DNR and LNR told them they can just put down their weapons and leave. Kiev seemed set on trying to keep claim on Debaltseve. Kiev denied for a while that there were even troops in danger there. It's kind of sad...but their TV channels have all this praise and glory for the army and their heroism...while mentioning nothing of the death tolls in the east...nor do they mention the currency collapse, the GDP projections, the factory closings, the rising food prices.The little known/reported fact is...there is a very strategically important road going through Debaltseve...kind of connecting DNR and LNR. I would imagine those interested in having a means of supplies moving between the two self proclaimed republics would very much want to have Debaltseve be a territory under the control of the Novorossiya project. As a side note...the Russian news seldom refers to it as Novorissiya anymore. There may have been a command not to mention it by that name because whether it would be a single unit came under question. Just a guess.
Its got jack to do with a road, well other than advantage linking Lugansk and Donesk. Its Bidens scummy assed sons future well locations. draw a 45 SE from Slovansk to Devasevo and these are the coal mines and future fracking locations besides areas that have already been captured, Maripol is a distraction. The titty babies are blowing all the mines when they retreat.
Certainly a valid point. That whole entire region...Donbass...is just on huge fucking coal mine. Most of the guys who took up arms are miners. With production down and them not getting paid...not much left to do but go and fight. A few interesting points : 1. Anyone who actually speaks the language and knows the region will tell you that the people have a specific dialect. They pronounce their letters differently. Saying that it's Russian military is plain out retarded because as soon as you hear the interviews, you know that they're locals. Of course, western media will never tell you this shit. But...just to help you understand just how different the dialects are and some of the tells...it would be like hearing a Canadian say the word "about". Or...hearing someone from North Carolina say "Ya'll. To a Russian, the standard language is basically like the Mid-western 'Murican speech. So..as soon as one of those separatists starts speaking...you know that the fucker is local. 2. I would argue that the reason Porkoshenko is so easily firing on the poor souls in Donbass is because most of the radicals couldn't give a fuck less about the locals. They want the land...or rather...what's under it. 60% of the energy on which Ukraine is so dependant...comes from that region. Finally...if you're curious about what you've been missing out on in the western media...Just google #Donbass...which will show you quite a bit of info on the region once you click on the twitter link. I don't use twitter but it is a decent source of updates on the issue at hand...organized in one place. Although...one does need to filter through the crazy layers of garbage these so called unbiased journalists are passing through their colon :)
The farmland is long term worth far more than the coal, or any other other resources.
Only can't be carried away and sold....
Monsanto can exploit it and ruin it over time though agribusiness mines the soil, is all....
These steal, then run away to next project easily if uprising against their crimes..
What's to worry about, the S&P has got to 2100?
DavidC
The Guardian
I am afraid the Guardian is now proven to be a total tool of the UK government and it's various intelligence and foreign serivce agencies. Though they do report some Ukrainian news, it is best to bear in mind that they will report what Kiev and London deem fit for publication.
One thing this Ukrinian Coup has revealed for all to see is that western media no longer is independent and free to investigate and report. Anything damaging to the Wests policies is off limits. MH-17 is not allowed to be investigated, the presence open radical and open Nazis in the Ukrainian Coup government may to be investigated, the fact that Kiev invaded Donbass with a massive army may not be reported, the constant shelling of cities and town by Junta troops may not be reported, etc. etc.
Even the Germans are beginning to backlash against the stream of demonstrable lies there media has pushed since the start of the NATO Coup in Kiev.
Anyone with the least interest in the true situation, willing to check sources and study available raw information coming out of Ukraine can see the steadt stream of lies. Culminating in a US Senator using fake pictures on the senate floor as proof of a Russian invasion. The biggest lie since IRAQ war stuff!
No, this cease fire never happened. Ukrainian artillery poured down without let up. The evening of the CF signing 3 massive Ukrainian Army attack were launched. At the Donetsk Airprort, on the Line North of Lughansk, and many attacks related to the Debaltsvo cauldron. They were timed to kick off the every evening of the cease fire implementation, in hopes of catch the Rebels in Cease Fire and pull back mode. A usual, the Kiev Junta gambled and lost, as the rebels are not so stupid. All attacked were turned back with heavy losses. 100 + KIA, 40 tanks, 25 APCs and around 40 artillery pieces knocked out in counter battery firing. Debaltsvo is a death trap now, and Kiev has ignored the trapped and is letting them die, which is usual for the cowards who inhabit Kiev.
jack, jack, jack...used to enjoy your posts. what happened?
the guardian as a tool of the uk govt is the most inaccurate statement i've read in some time and that's a pretty tall order around these parts of late.
So what's up in the propaganda/fantasy bin this day?
certainly not fortruss you clown.
Made me laugh. This pendragon guy accidentally got one correct.
The fortruss site would have a lot of catching up to do if they aspired to the heights of propaganda attained by The Guardian.
A guardian reader is a non-entity. No credible Brit buys Establishment News Papers. Due to the collapse in sales of those Spy Infested Rags it's the Government & Corp Riff-Raff that sponsors that SHITE.
of course - the guardian...the very same spy rag that broke the ed snowden leaks. they're in the govt's back pocket for sure...
This pendragon guy made me laugh louder still. Another accidental correctness.
The Guardian is in the govt's back pocket because they broke the Ed Snowden leaks.
russian logic? your ignorance is breathtaking
Snowden and Wikileaks fit the dialectic perfectly, to breed fear and mistrust of everything, including the supposed good guys, and to enable them to expoit the chaos. They are there because they are supposed to be! The minute they aren't they won't. Simples.
As a FORMER Guardian reader, I can vouch for Jack Burton's statement.
Actually Udo Ulfkotte has an intersting book about European Journalism as a whole:
‘Bought Journalists’The best-selling book which has become hugely popular in Germany and talks of bribery, spies and cover-ups could easily be mistaken for a script from a Bourne movie. According to the book’s author, ex-journalist Udo Ulfkotte, journalists can be bought to put a specific twist on news stories and that he was taught “to lie, to betray and not to tell the truth to the public”.
Udo Ulfkotte, author of the book ‘Bought Journalists’.
During his time working as the editor the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung, one of Germany’s largest newspapers, Ulfkotte explains how he was secretly paid by the CIA and the German Secret Service (Bundesnachrichtendienst ) to spin particular news stories in a way that was positive for the United States and bad for its enemies.
European MediaFor most people this will come as a shock but for German journalists, it’s not at all surprising: “I think that people who know nothing about the work of the media in Germany and in Europe as a whole, will be shocked. For those who still believe that our media is free and independent, reading this book will certainly be a shock, because it denies everything, what they believe” says Zuerst Oksenrayeter, chief editor of ‘Bought Journalists’.
English EditionThe book is now ranked seventh in the list of best sellers in Germany with more and more people turning to it in an attempt to understand what is happening in German journalism. At present, the book is only available in German and can be ordered here. However, Agenda Daily can confirm that the book is in the process of being translated into English, Russian, Turkish and Hungarian.
Updates on the English release date to follow soon.
I wonder if some of the rebels looked at the probable victory in Debaltsovo like it was Christmas. I saw one interview with soldiers who seemed sorry about the likely loss of life but happy about the expected "prizes." Those artillery pieces and tanks were probably not all destroyed but captured. Quick repainting of the Ukraine mark to the Novorossian mark, and bingo, that same equipment is turned around and pointed at Debaltsovo or Svetlodarsk.
No pipeline route, and Lebensraum for Israel in Syria, no peace in the Ukraine.
The Ukraine is literally, and I mean literally, Zion, and Zion's true nature on display for all to see--from the killing, to the lies.
The banksters need to repay us.
Where are MH-17's black boxes?
with the soundtrack of ghostbusters:
you have a smoldering war in your backyard, who you gonna call?
usa usa
and a warm commercial voice blends over: 50+ years experience in calming the world for the better
When Putin gave Merkel and Hollande the truce documents to approve he was assured by the rebels that Debaltseve would fall BEFORE the ceasefire took affect 2 days later. The Ukrainian forces held on and by ceasefire time at midnight, the town was still held. But like all good Russians they now refused to honor the ceasefire and MUST take the town in order to block coal from passing through on the rail system to the power plants. Remember Russia knows energy can make or break you. So the Russian reinforcements rushed in and have pounded the city for the last 5 days. OSCE was not allowed in by the rebels. Look at all the ammunition the rebels have fired. Where did it all come from and how did it get there. Most suppliers on E Bay just ship by mail. Ammo, rockets are kind of heavy to mail and most postal service require a hazardous material certificate.
wow, maybe a 2nd career writing pulp fiction is in your future. lol
ROFL
Debaltseve was in cauldron. Borderline are south from it. Debaltseve is internal territory of Donetsk Republic. GeT IT.
osce is a nato troops which wanted save nato troops in Debaltseve. GET IT
Most suppliers they buy from ukrainian side and they have 3 military bases in their soil + they have military plant in there soil.
They are not Russian reinforcements. Many of them are lived there before Debaltseve was occupied by NAzi and Nato
Fuck man> are you for real?
The last part was true, about the osce not allowed in.
most do live there....were ordinary until Kiev sent force.
ignorant do not understand all made required duty, and many older guys you see from
normal services and also specialties, Afgantsy and other conficts and very experienced, capable.
OT; mean while on the southern flank of EU:
"As ISIS makes inroads into Libya, officials in Rome are panicking about an Islamic State just across the sea—but have no idea how to combat the crisis."
ISIS did post we are south of ROME. does ISIS have a navy?
Kowalli,
Russia is in total support and a member of OSCE. This is true. Please do not lump OSCE in with any usa/euro ragtag team. look it up yourself osce.org... Otherwise I'm in the same camp you are in. Fema region Vi.
"But like all good Russians they now refused to honor..."
Did you have a bad experience with a "good" Russian in the past? Lets hear it.
OSCE observers were not allowed in because they were getting shelled by the Ukrainian army, which was/is shooting at anything that moved.
Anybody want to tell me what national security threat those two republics fighting for self determination and want nothing to do with u.s. supported nazis pose?
This citizen wants to know why in his name the national government is not only politically backing a Nazi Regime but is using the treasury to fund it?
This citizen thought the Nazi's were our enemies,,, remember WWII????,,, now Muslim Arabs are the enemy and Ukrainian Nazi's are allies? Which is it Washington?
Or is the whole damn world America's enemy now?
Signed
Sick of this shit...
The UK/USA does not have allies and enemies. The UK/USA has people it is expedient to side with and people it is expedient to war with.
Putin isn't playing chicken, he's fighting for the livelyhood and freedom of Russians, they're done with slavery, nukes will fly before the EU decides to live within it's means
""nukes will fly"
really, now?
are you ready for them?
in your back yard?
USSA: Proudly Spreading Democracy - One Ethnic Cleansing At A Time....
Long Kalashnikov!
Even "longer" Kardashian!
I'm almost certain that MIC Booz have a 'War Wheel of Fortune' and take turns spinning it every month.
As The Guardian reports, and Interfax confirms, the situation in Debaltseve is deteriorating...
And who wouldn't trust the Guardian for it's unbiased integrity and journalistic ethics in the "reportage" department in giving it's readers the unvarnished truth.
Stage II planned well in advance because nobody inside the Country wants to fight for the current government. Porko-Jew has allegedly fled and the reinforcements are being rounded up from elsewhere of course from far away lands just like ISIS in Syria, Iraq and Lebanon!
Volunteers anyone? Anyone???
The Army and Marine Corps needs your ass pronto! Don't pay any attention to the bad press getting worse concerning morale these past 8 years.
All a pack of dirty lies we tell you!
Uncle "S"!!!
Until social mood changes for the better in Europe (and around the world for that matter), the friction between Ukraine and Russia will not ease. Nor will the mood of those onlookers who want to impose their own will on the conflict, e.g., the U.S., Germany, Great Britain, etc. What most political analysts believe is that the anger and frustration evident in geopolitics today is caused by the tension around the world. In fact, the opposite is true... the conflicts won't cease until the tension does - not vice versa.
http://www.globaldeflationnews.com/robert-prechter-explains-that-social-...