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US Sends "Tankbuster" Jets To Europe Over Russia Fears After Germany Says "A Large Scale War Could Develop"
Karl-Georg Wellmann, a lawmaker in Angela Merkel’s Christian Democratic Union has warned that, despite its efforts to avoid arms being provided to Ukraine, Germany "will no longer be able to stop weapons deliveries from from the U.S. and Canada." Almost too coincidental to these comments, CNN reports, the U.S. Air Force is sending its A-10 "tankbusters" back to Europe in order to "increase rotational presence in Europe to reassure our allies and partner nations that our commitment to European security is a priority." As Wellmann ominously concludes, seemingly confirming Putin's warning yesterday that if Kiev aims at a military solution, war will never end, "a large-scale war could develop out of that."
As Bloomberg reports, Germany May Be Unable to Stop Weapons to Ukraine, Lawmaker Says
Karl-Georg Wellmann, a lawmaker in Angela Merkel’s Christian Democratic Union and chairman of the German-Ukrainian parliamentary group, tells newspaper Tagesspiegel that Germany won’t be able to halt U.S. weapons deliveries to Ukraine to fight Russian-supported separatists.
"We will no longer be able to stop weapons deliveries from from the U.S. and Canada" after rebel gains in the strategic town of Debaltseve in eastern Ukraine, Wellmann tells Tagesspiegel in interview
"A large-scale war could develop out of that," Wellmann says
Wellmann says further economic sanctions against Russia are "unavoidable," Tagesspiegel says
And so, as CNN reports, The US is sending in the Warthogs...
The U.S. Air Force is sending its "tankbusters" back to Europe.
The service's European Command said this week that 12 A-10 Thunderbolts would be deployed to Spangdahlem Air Base, Germany, as part of Operation Atlantic Resolve, which was formed after Russia's intervention in Ukraine over the past year.
"The Air Force is increasing rotational presence in Europe to reassure our allies and partner nations that our commitment to European security is a priority," Lt. Gen. Tom Jones, vice commander, United States Air Forces in Europe -- Air Forces Africa, said in a statement.
The Air Force said besides operating in Germany, the A-10s will be forward deployed to other partner nations in Eastern Europe. U.S. forces have operated out of bases in Lithuania, Estonia, Latvia and Poland, among others, in the past year.
The A-10, also known as the "Warthog," was designed in the 1970s to support ground troops in Europe against the tanks and armored vehicles of the then-Soviet Union. Though the jets can carry a variety of bombs and missiles, they are best known for their nose-mounted, seven-barrel 30 mm Gatling gun that can fire almost 4,000 rounds per minute, enough to quickly blow apart a tank. The planes are also durable, with the pilot protected from ground fire by a wrapping of titanium often called "the bathtub." And they are designed for easy maintenance in battlefield areas, with interchangeable parts for the right and left sides of the aircraft.
* * *
Not exactly the act of a peace-seeking force following a "truce"? But then again... Washington was not included in the Minsk Summit so apparently feels free to stir things up explicitly.
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And the Nobel Winner for Peace was ...........
this is insanity
..Who the f*ck makes these decisions in America?
It ain't Obama....because he's on the golf course every day.
Oh no, Spain is deploying the Spanish Armada! The A-10 is obsolete even by the USAF's own reckoning. It's only been kept alive by CONgress to "protect" jurbs.
Nahh.. It's still a viable weapon system for a limited conflict and well supported
But drones are probably the better choice now for an all out war.
They work fine as long as the enemy can't fight back.
Who the heck makes these decisions? The Bankers do:
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/allwarsarebankerswars.pdf
More American provocation to start war in Ukraine.
America ruins the world to rule it.
"Putin's warning that if Kiev aims at a military solution, war will never end"
And that was music to DC's ears and pocketbooks.
Looks Like MIRKEL And OilBama Want War... How Better To Distract The Sheeple From The Collapsing Economies...
Warthog, meet S 300...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9PGW80oYRY
Godamn Ziocons are praying to Lucifer to get their war they desperately want.
Warthog meet SU-25:
https://defencesummits.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/su-25vsa-10_1.jpg
The LBMA is in collapse and there is no chance that the financial industry behind the LBMA will not push for a war to cover the failure of their fraud.
Gold and silver will soar based on the 'fear trade'. Not collapse of paper manipulation.
This is a false comparison. The SU-25 is much faster than the A-10, but the Novoroussians are shooting them down with manpads. It would be interesting to see how the A-10 would perform against against the SA-18 and SA-24.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SA-18_Grouse
http://www.armyrecognition.com/russia_russian_army_light_heavy_weapons_u...
Israel has set in motion the dominoes in the middle east, beginning with 9/11, (when PNAC Hawks engineered their new Pearl Harbor), and now it's come full circle to Russia-Ukraine (Ukraine odomoter of Russia, so that's redundant).
the benchmark in conspiracist fantasy
So far US lost all of its proxy wars. This will be no difference.
Direct war not a viable solution against a country that can transform the north american landmass into a glassed parking lot.
I was wondering how the Warthog would perform against the S300. I don't imagine the "tank buster" would have much of a chance, since it is slow and heavy.
Who would fly it? Vladislav Voloshin, the guy who brought down MH 17?
Aside from the obvious goal of putting a puupet government in Kiev to be ruled from DC, what are the long term DC/NATO plans for Ukraine? That's a lot of hardware they're donating for this fight. Are they gambling a win over the Russians? Even if they do win, it will be a bloody mess with no real Ukrainian winners, so the real incentive must be bigger.
Puutie invades Crimea. Then the gerbil decides that he needs more.
Puttie hopes to restore USSR totalitarian blanket with Puutie as Stalin.
If no one objeted to Stalin doing it, maybe Puutie can conquer more people to expand serfdom of Russia?
You're so stupid you have to work for a government somewhere.
Augustus, you poor stupid man,
how you dare NOT to label Putin - the HERO?
your voice is killed at instant,
never forget ZH is RUSSIAN BOAT.
ZH has practically become an FSB operation since the Godlikeproductions monkeys arrived. Long gone are the days of mining the comments for actual financial insight.
Pure comedy. Even drunk I could not make up your pathology. I have to give you a +1.
For all those in Detroit, let me translate:
He be driving a oldsmobile. Den he want a Broham. He got Obama surance so he can. No one check his cred, so maybe he git the ElDorado.
"America ruins the world to rule it."
Is that a corollary to "Everything government touches turns to crap -Ringo Starr"?
coup of the coup. only solution, but they have the weapons, hmmm. will my 308 suffice? tree top shooter? ha, ...
S-400's will need to be taken out for A-10's to operate, that means f-15,16's and HARM missiles this will not go well
In reality, this will not happen unless the Europeans allow themselves to be consumed in another war.
the S-400 is designed for use against high altitude aircraft. The A-10 fly's way too low. MANPADS and close-in AA guns are more effective.....
Your right, S- 300 has better low level performance..
This, the A-10 has to come in low and dinosar slow and the manpads are going to have a field day if they can stay alive long enough from that nasty nose. The russian made 25s lasted maybe 2 weeks. Goona be a lot of dead pilots. INSANITY, This is like a bunch of children. Disposal ground for all the obsolete crap, death of thousands and don't whine when Tampa or somewhere takes a buttshot. We need some grownups in the room NOW.
The amount they are spending is not even worth the shale gas they are after at todays price. The US has already said this cannot be solved by military means but yet keep escalating. Hello, Are you idiots in Fashington on the same fucking page? Unfucking believable stupid.
It was never any different in the cold war. The A-10s were just for slowing down WARSAW Pact armor until their tactical mobile SAMs and zsus took them down. Then it was time to unleash the tac-nukes to kill tank concentrations from further away with battle field artillery.
That's the signal being sent here.
Yes the signal is get the US the Fuck out of Ukraine, you don't belong here. When O-dumbass was talking when Merkel arrived everything he stated was a lie. And, he stated that sometimes when a problem hits his desk it is harder to solve? Like he did not even Know? So, my question and every journalist SHOULD be asking? If you did not know about this until it becomes a problem, are the Pentagon, NSA, CIA- acting independantly from congress and the WH persuing their own agenda or what? Are we that out of control? It looks that way to me. Do we have rouge agencies operating within the state? WTF
S300/400 can take out f15sF16s,18s, well before the can get close enough to "HARM" them.
HARMs are designed for tactical SAMs, not for strategic SAMs.
S300 and S400 were designed to kill platforms and missile IRVs that may be carrying nukes. You don't just pull them out at any old time and switch them on and wave them around.
The electronic noise gives away too many secrets that makes them vulnerable to defeat. So you keep them in the rear to protect high value strategic targets and use tactical SAMs on a battlefield.
Element, you are correct about the S300 deployment. There are other systems better suited to deal with close air support aircraft.
BINGO! They are the perfect battlefield air support vehicle when the enemy is undefended. It has proven all the way back in Gulf war number one to be easily shot down by Soviet Era gound forces mobil air defense systems. Two of these babies where shot down at once by Saddam's boys in the desert battles. The SA-9 a Soviet model used to defend tank and infantry forces engaged and shot down one and another tried to attack the missile system itself and was shot down. Saddam's forces did not have many and were poorly trained in their use, but when it was available and properly used, it worked.
These planes would simply die like flies in the face of the PANTSIR S1 system and simply be exterminated by the new missiles mounted on the ultra modern TOR-M2u. Not to mention S-300 and S-400 taking these planes out at long range if they didn't hug the deck. Also, Russia just deployed a new MANPAD designed to shoot down planes at approaching angles, along with the older stern shot used by older MANPADS.
I am sure that this airplane would never be able to operate over Russia. Russia is well defended by mobile anti aircraft systems. Russia is not Iraq, and the US Air Force knows this very well.
Jack, you're full of it. Between 2003-2008 the Coalition lost only 24 fixed wing aircraft shot down, of that two dozen aircraft, ONE was an A-10 and the pilot survived a SAM hit.(April 8, 2003).
Ground forces know for a fact that the A-10 is a CAS Monster. Yes, the mobile SAM sites will have to be knocked out, but that is what the F-15 and F-16's are for. Once the clutter is out of the way, the A-10 is a game changer for ground forces. And this is the plane the Pentagon is trying to get rid of for it's F-35. Funny, the one weapon that the Pentagon turns to is the tried, true and reliable weapon platform over the Golly Gee Willikers Tech Stooge.
Russia is not Iraq, and if Russia "is not involved", then Ukies are going to have their hands full of Hog.
Jack said in Gulf War 1, and you referred to Gulf War 2.
"limited"
Meaning against anyone who doesn't have a surface to air missile made in the last 30 years.
The A-10 is still, by a wide margin, the most effective fixed wing ground attack aircraft ever buillt. Despite intense marketing by Lockheed, Boeing, and the rest, it has no replacement. That said, escalating with the Russians is pure insanity.
They're being deployed to draw out Russian surface to air missiles and "prove" the separatists are getting help in the minds of dumb-fuck 'Mericans. Do you seriously think a modern military hasn't devised a system to counter the A-10 in 40 fucking years? Talk about rah-rah delusional...
Ask any ground pounder, nothing like the comfort of hearing an A-10 overhead. World's best ground support out there, and no, nothing has taken it's place.
Ask the Brit soldiers that were sat in a Warrior armoured personnel carrier with a BIG Union Jack draped across it's roof in Iraq. The A 10 certainly FUCKED THEM!!!
The British were born to be fucked by Americans
In their current configuration, the A-10 cannot counteract the S-300, and S-400 air defense systems. They are simply not fast enough. I anticipate the next move from Russia will be to move the S-300, and S-400 to their Western border. Wait for the announcement, if it hasn't been made already.
They won't.
Those things can be detected and targeted from hundreds of kilometers away, NATO has plenty of weapons designed to kill those, and Russia knows it
Nope, they may deploy electro-optical passive mobile tactical tracked SAMs into the field though, ones that emit nothing themselves and work on the cues of regional EW radars and can then detect optically and fire without warning at short to medium ranges. There are several options but they're certainly not going to deploy huge active heavy SAM systems just to kill A-10s.
"NATO has plenty of weapons designed to kill those, and Russia knows it"
Won't happen unless it's part of the daisy chain to nuclear war because Russia is similarly armed.
True, see comment I just posted above on that.
and what are those by the way . Name those weapons nato jizpot . Keeping them placed 100 km away from russia's western border is futile because Baltics will be going under the non-nuklear barrage of missiles in the very first move .
pal, if you can't work it out (and you've already demonstrated twice that you're much too dumb for this stuff) don't bother asking me for pointers.
And I see that you're still immediately up-voting yourself EVERY TIME you post a comment, you pathetic laughable tosser.
What stuff you're talking about ? Your twisted facts regarding Ukraine which i corrected almost every time on zh articles on ukraine . But you've demonstrated every time that you're an ignorant cunt . Instead of acknowledging the facts you're busy beating your not picking any side narrative .
I don't upvote myself and comparing the red/green arrows starting from our first conversation you lead the way with more red ones . Your pointers being acknowledged quite well . It's evident who is a pathetic tosser here .
You've not named those nato weapons you talked about . If you can't back your phony claims with substantial substance/ source then kindly shut up .
Nato has those weapons which russians are aware about . yeah how do you know because your gut says so ? They haven't developed any counter measures yet despite knowing nato has some unnamed weapons according to you .
Hahaahh yeah mr.insanse your irrational rant of unmitigated bullshit is worthwhile .
Dimal 12-week noob, Putin-troll, and liar.
I agree with you. The A-10 is the ground pounders best friend. However... against a look down shoot down threat the warthog is itself a target. 10 A-10s to Euroland is PR from the White House on the 19th hole.
There is a U.S. "shadow" military that exists in fact. It has both tactical and strategic weapons of a terrible nature. Delivery systems that are bizzare and totally unbelivable.
We know how to "kill" but, do we have the will?
russians were always ahead of americans considering bizzare/black projects, only difference is they don't talk about them that much...I wouldn't be surprised if they are still ahead...
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-02-17/forget-hacking-cia-accuses-russ...
No drones won't fit the bill here, the U.S. needs a sacrificial marine corp pilot to be shot down by those "dirty red bastards" in order to kick this bitch up a notch. War does not "erupt", it's a stew that must seeth with many cooks hovering over the pot adding their own spice until it can be lapped up by the chin dripping with gravy screaming "more" public. All the while not understanding that the meat in the stew is the flesh of their own children. Fuck the politicians, and may God have mercy on them.
There will be NO mercy on them. They made their bed (and then shit in their messkit) and now must lay down in it...
Puutie is on a mission to get Russian military roasted so that the generals won't have him removed.
You know that shiny missile system that supposidly shot down MH-17. Yeah, that buk thingie -- I wonder if it plays well with the BUK missile system?
I dunno. Can the BUK hit targets at tree top level?
I don't know. I can see the headliens now:
"American A-10 pilot shot down and killed by Russian terrorists on a low altitude combat air patrol in the East of Ukraine. We expect a statement from President Obama within minutes."
It doesnt even have to be that, they could have a malfunction in some bad weather and blame the Russians. I mean, the possibilities are endless!
"My fellow Americans. Today I regret to inform you that like September 11th and December 7th -- both dates that live in infamy -- we can add April the 20th to the list. Today the armed forced of the Russian Federation directly engaged our armed forces while on peace-keeping mission in Ukraine. They destroyed not just the equipment, but they killed our brave men and women in Uniform. Let us all stop for a moment of silence in their memory. (silence for like 5 seconds) They not just attacked our military, but the freedom we enjoy. Now, I am asking the Congress of the United States for a declaration of war upon the Russian Federation. Like before, the US will sacrifice and persevere, and always we will prevail. May God Bless us in this endeavor and may God bless the United States of America."
(STANDING APPLAUSE FROM TEH CONGRESS AND 85% OF THE SHEEPLES IN THE US WHILE THE LIBERTARIANS AND THOSE WHO ARE AWAKE BOOK FLIGHTS TO SWITZERLAND)
The French and British get raging hardons, the Poles immediately invade Kaliningrad and the Germans shit a Latvian speaking chicken.
I saw what you did there.
Yes, but how long can we stay in Switzerland without citizenship?
I would fucking scrub toilets before fighting the Russians in Russia. Talk abouta death sentence. Just think though -- if all the MIC have a goldmine in the making, you better bet the Chinese and Japanese will just say "oh fuck it lets go" and with more than 50 million people in reserves (just so happens to be the same amount of boys more than girls in China) -- China could send a few dozen infintry divisions to help out the Russians and this its huge shitshow.
It will go nuclear and no one will need to die the in plains of Russia.
Well I can tell you I've been arguing against this crap for years now and I'll scrub toilets with you if that's what it takes. This is complete and utter BS.
And I don't believe for a second that this is going nuclear. Everyone knows that if we start trading nukes we're all totally screwed.
I can see some ground warfare complete with a draft, though. We have to "protect" our "allies" overseas.
Absolutely stupid beyond belief if we end up in another war. This is 2015 people, WAKE UP. We have robots and spaceships being built now! What are you doing quibbling over who's currency is the best? We have enough technology to feed and clothe the entire world twice over.
I don't have much use for Putin but unlike most posters on this website I've actually served in combat. #1 Lesson I Learned: war is the most horrible experience any human can endure. #2 Lesson I Learned: picking a fight with someone means you have to be willing to kill every damn one of them. And I don't want to kill a shit load of Russians. Bottom line: the Russian people don't hate the average American any more than Americans hate the average Russian. I'm lucky to be an American who has traveled extensively in Russia and I can state categorically that neither country is hungry for a war with the other one. It's the fucking politicians and incompetents.....on both sides. If there's a God I hope He gets off His butt and intercedes before we all blow outselves to hell and gone.
Politicans from your side US wants war not the Russian politicians . Putin has high ratings only because world knows US is the aggressor .
RichSOB, yours is probably the best comment I've read today on ZH. Too many idiots think they understand war, when they know jack shit. I also agree that the vast majority of Russians are not interested in a fight with the US and do not hate Americans because the idiot box told them so.
Politicans from your side US wants war not the Russian politicians . Putin has high ratings only because world knows US is the aggressor .
Too bad we can't count on God for jack.
It has to take off before getting to tree top height and it shows up on the radar up to 5000km away.......so I reckon at 560km/h this thing should be lighting up even a BUK radar with 150km range and those misiles explode above or below the plane delivering a payload of shrapnel
They are being used for cannon fodder. Too obvious...
The USAF proves they belong in a museum and the MIC gets a new war. Win-win.
A10s can fly with only one engine and severe hull damage while killing dozens of tanks or APCs. Shilka-class mobile AA, not BUKs or other long range anti-aircraft systems, are their main problem. Still very effective against the type of forces fielded by separatists, IMHO.
Wait and see......
These same idiots will be calling for moar war when one is easily shot down.
Russian tank drivers will be hard to find after few hours.
Puutie will be praised in his Parliment for getting Russians involed in a senseles invasion to support his ego trip.
And Augustus will fly into Moscow on winged horse to announce the new Millenium, LOL.
Not to mention that a good part of the 'Hogs effectiveness is psychological. There are a couple great videos out the on the web of CAS missions being run by A-10s. There's nothing quite like hearing that ugly engine whine and the burping of the Vulcan. Huge morale effect on both sides.
Shilka will chew them in half... Sorry but truth is truth.. A-10 is great for insurgent fighting absorbing up to 12.7 mm ground fire, against a Shilka 23mm not so much..
https://duckduckgo.com/l/?kh=-1&uddg=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwi...
The A-10 is like the Ju-88 Stuka, transplanted to 2015. The Stuka reigned in Poland in 1939 after the Polish Airforce was neutralized and the Luftwaffe fully dominated the air.
The rest of the war, when the Luftwaffe had their hands full, they were easy meat for the RAF, USAAF, even the Soviet Airforce.
Without full spectrum air superiority, the A-10 reputation as a formidable ground support platform will get tarnished quickly.
In this respect, the Su-25's superior speed makes it a better platform - it has a better chance of running away from air defenses - THIS is the true heir to the Ilyushin iL-2 Sturmovik, which is what the A-10 really tries to emulate.
Good point. Everyone's talking about SAMs but if it came to it the Russians need only fly a couple of air superiority missions and the A-10 is done for.
A-10s are designed to fly under radar acquisition systems, and are even difficult for hand held SAMs to lock onto using infrared.
If you can't acquire the target, you can't shoot it down. These planes were specifically designed and modified for operations in the European theatre. Funny how the bugs were worked out in desert combat before heading to land of the trees, home of the brave Europeans.
good luck finding trees in these areas of Ukraine
PANTSIR S-1 can kill a tree top level aircraft. That is why it mounts a dual automatic 30MM cannon, radar, optical, an infared aimed. PANTSIR S-1 carries small missiles as well designed for low level use.
But it is the TOR M2u and it's brand new missiles that would be the death of the A-10.
Because American hasn't faced a modern anti aricraft system since 1971-2 over North Vietnam, does not mean that the last 40 years has seen missiles and guns stand still.
Yes, the ground punders love it, anyone would. But we haven't fought anyone with a real military since Vietnam. Iraq is a dangerous illusion of victory
Wondering which airfields would be utilized by A-10. If airfields outside of Ukraine in Poland or other surrounding Nato nations are used, then war is dramatically escalated and certainly will bring in Russia which has numerous air fields close to battlefield. Within Western Ukraine do they have airfields close to the battle zone and what is effective range of A-10 which would have to fly at higher altitudes in order to save fuel making them vulnerable. Donetsk airport is obviously not an option. Many questions remain making the A-10 another failed Neocn fiasco. At some point people in Kiev will turn on Poroshenko, regardless on imposition of Martial law. The entire Ukraine venture sponsored by Washington is ill fated. Obama would be wise to cut his losses or find a scapegoat--Nuland being on top of the list.
The yanks tend to rely on Israeli incursions and aggressive ELINT to gather information on newer systems. I think from this they feel they know existing and fielded system performance fairly well now. The US owns versions of most of the SAMs, either captured or bought off some officer. Everything's modeled and most combat training and mission planning is pre-flown in simulators with those weapon performances precisely modeled within them, as tested in the real systems, and pilots constantly fly against those within full-scale networked theater sims. The SAMs can also be simulated within the avionics of the real jets within exercises. So they do have a fairly good idea about most of these systems through that process, and how to defeat them. A lot better than you'd expect. You can expect the CIA has spared no effort in trying to fish a Pantsir out of Syria and I know they already have the TOR M2.
Look US Vietnam conflict air losses.
real numbers are worse, btw.
BTW this was posted on Janes a couple of weeks ago now, Pantsir said to be seen on roads in east Ukraine.
http://www.janes.com/article/48685/russian-tos-1-and-pantsyr-s1-systems-...
A-10s do not come alone. They bring along some friends who can deal with SAMs like BUK. But we´ll see how good those S-400 or S-500 SAMs of the Russians really are.
Yeup. The problem is two fold;
1) As American jets approach the Russian border, the Russians like NATO will scramble fighter jets to shadow the American jets -- but across the border. Having these weapons in close proximity over a war-zone is just asking for something to go wrong.
2) So lets say the S-400 is as good as they say it is. We send out with a sortie with 6 aircraft and nonecome home. All confirmed downed, with 2 pilots killed, 2 unaccounted for, and 2 captured.
What is the US' next play?
Won't be the S-400 - you forget Kaliningrad which has Iskander ready to take out Polish airfields - oh and Poland was just found guilty in the European Court of running secret CIA torture facilities - not what one expects of Polish democratics really now is it ?
If the Russians fire on Polish airfields fielding American aircraft -- for no other reason than the American aircraft are headed east is definitely the act of war our banksters are banking on. I don't think Putin is that foolish.
If the US continues its war build up it may be a question of who makes the first mistake.......
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_rocket_incident
If the Russians fire a missile from Kaliningrad territory aka Eastern Prussia into NATO territory the Russians can forget about Kaliningrad.
They probably have just as the US wrote off Chicago
Maybe the Germans get it back this time?
I doubt this will be a clever move of the Germans. But you can bet that Pentagon has some plans for that already. Throwing the Russians out of Kaliningrad would be a major strategic victory for the US.
Why would this not be a good idea?
Because it will bring Germany into trouble with the Russians again and even with the Poles and the Lithuanians. OTOH, since the Russians seem to be committed to be in a constant state of conflict with the rest of Europe throwing the Russians out of Kaliningrad would be a relief for many.
I don't think the Lithuanians would care. The Poles would get bent out of a shape, but I cannot gas up my car in Poland without some old fucker coming up to me asking how long before the tanks show up.
I normally reply he should ask the calvary. That one they don't find as funny as they thought it would be.
Preußen belongs to Germany. Not Poland. Full stop.
Don´t forget the Poles now sit in a even larger part of Prussia than the Russians. Soo, your last sentence is somewhat "problematic".
I am quite familiar with geography. Its why I hope Germany sits the upcomign shit-show out, and when the Poles get their asses handed to them by the Russians, the Ruskies say "thanks" with alt-Preußen back.
I am quite familiar with geography. Its why I hope Germany sits the upcomign shit-show out, and when the Poles get their asses handed to them by the Russians, the Ruskies say "thanks" with alt-Preußen back.
That´s what i hope too, keep us Germans out of this conflict, Angela. Doesn´t matter what will be the result. But i fear the ´Muricans will drag us in. What a funny coincident, all our military equipment isn´t working and needs repair at the moment. Sorry guys, we Germans can´t make war right now. :-)
You hope Angela keeps Germany out? Germany is up to its neck in this with its MH17 propaganda, sanctions (economic warfare), support of Nazis in Ukraine etc. Sorry buddy, but Germany deserves all it gets.
Of course, and if we play that crisis clever enough there´s a lot to gain for us.
Of course. You can bet your bottom dollar, no matter who fires first (I suspect we will) both sides will claim its the other.
My only question/reservation -- is what is our long game with this flight deployment? If we keep our jets out of East Ukraine -- I think all will be well. If we start flying over the war-zone using our pilots and aircraft as bait -- then its game on. I don't see someone not firing at somebody in that sense.
I'm sure well know soon enough. I could also see us leasing the A-10s to Ukraine, with our pilots as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vUgcrzB9A8
Perfect setup for a false-flag.
Usually there are banker agents on both sides to make sure the false flag or act of war happens, right?
With all the awareness in Europe of Banker Imperialism and Lording over the common people with totally corrupt and evil purposes... the banks have to start a war to make people forget the investigations and the sweeping reforms that are needed.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-02-16/hsbc-bank-secret-origins-launde...
I, for one, have lost count of the Acts of War committed so far.
The escallation to full out war has a momentum all of its own, and its all downhill
from here.
Puutie had the assumption that invasion of Crimea and Ukraine would be ignored and unnotied. His acts of war clearly were intended to trigger a response to get Russians killed.
So what? Are you honestly afraid of that? What are the chances of this happening? The probability of a WIII in the 21st Century - come on. Really? I believe that the human species is stupid. But that stupid?
So what do your bankers do? Hide under the surface for the next 30-40 years - Fallout style? Woah. Great life down there in the bunker.
If we have WWIII - just don't be drafted with me, okay? I am a mental case. I won't take this shit serious.
I cannot belive you idiots are discussing this like it is a good thing... You morons heard of the SS-18, maybe Iskander.. Pick up a gun and head on over you assholes, leave my kids alone...
It's not a question of being foolish, but if Putin feels Russia is backed in a corner, then he may act with an overt aggressive conventional deployment (as he has been only been alleged to up to this point).
If Russia acts and the US doesn't back down... then a tactical nuke detonating right over your neighborhood is a very realistic option to preserve Russian manpower and force a negotiated solution. (Poland might be more likely, and my preference would be the City, and who knows exactly how far you are from the nearest NATO/USSA imperial installation in the German colony, but those are relatively trivial details).
The important question is what level of conventional losses (or threat of imminent losses) would provoke an escalation in accordance with their longstanding military doctrine?
The BUK achieved victories In IRAQ against F16s and gave them a hard time, the BUK 2 is far more advanced and superior with a kill radius of about 50 nautical miles. The Serbs took out a stealth 117 with a 60s technology 125 GOA, IT singled out the 117 from It's F15 escotrs. It's the Russian Radar tht is so good.
Serbs used mobile phone masts
You select them to fill a mission right.
Then you update the avionics, communications, and friend or foe Signal units whatever they are.
There is no other Drone or Airplane that can fill the same mission as the A-10.
....or the A-10's function as a trigger to get some pilots show down and thus 'justify' larger US involvement... oldest trick in the book
sure American voters are ready for Permanent War after 25 years
the ignorance in this comment is staggering
you can smell the fear building up in the RTHedge brigade now... no more fucking around, the Warthogs are going to be on the scene... if you're a NeoComm in a tank fighting for Mother Russia your butthole just puckered up...
they don't call it "The Devil's Cross" for nothing...
NeoComm ... funny ... not heard that one before.
It would make a good recon system too even above or offset from MANPAD reach, persistence, stability and low speed. Plenty of scan time and maneuverability to turn around for another look. From there task small drones to go in and have a closer look at points of interest.
Frankly, given the way Russia's putting in artillery and tanks on the sly something has to be done. Some LongBows next, plenty-nasty new missiles for them these days, better seekers more standoff and external target designation cuing. Nasty. I'd be just as concerned by AH-64s except for the loiter being so much shorter.
The Warthog is far, far from obsolete for ground support in limited warfare situations, which seems to be what there is a lot of in the Ukraine and Middle East these days. Air Force Generals want the public to believe the A-10 is obsolete, cause they are pushing the multi-billion dollar F-35 boondoggle multi-purpose presently mostly grounded fleet.
Meanwhile, the Warthogs only have to be taken out of mothballs and put lback in service - relatively cheap, tough as hell, easy to maintain (compared to the F22 and F35) and the right weapon for the job to fight WW two point nine six.
Assholes. This is just in case the Eastern Ukraine 'rebels' decide to stop fighting once Eastern Ukraine is secured - gots to keep the war going...
Endless war. Krugman will be pleased.
Dup
the a-10 is not obsolete. this is a deliberate lie promoted by boeing and jpl and lockheed who need money and want to promote the lie that newer better aircraft exist, and are therefor necessary.
they are not. the a-10 is not obsolete. it was intended for a certian job undert certain circumstances and is does that job reliably and cheaply in circumstances which remain COMMON on battlefields. it is not a anachronism like a biplane.
it is vulnerable to flack and anti-aircraft weapons , and yes, it is increaingly vulnerable as those weapons become more sophisticated. no---it was never meant to be stealthy in the slightest and no it's not a sitting duck if you don't send it into circumstances in which it will be considered a sitting duck.
those circumstances STILL exist.
Put your vote to Val Jarret and eliminate the middle man!
The Warthog is a fearsome war plane, but a fat lot of good a few dozen of them will do over there if the SHTF.
They ain’t playing with Saddam this time around.
It is sad that psychopaths are in charge nowadays.
Love the A-10, they are so stukaesk, the German government should buy them up. Or develop a completely new CAS airplane.
The Russians invented the type.. You are going yourself right wolfie...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilyushin_Il-2
The "type" is somewhat older. Look at this bird from 1917.
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junkers_J.I
I prefer this
http://tinyurl.com/oouvbr3
Psychopaths yes, demonic vessels as well which makes it worse.
As for the Warthog, certainly an bad ass machine. However, my view is, as the US war machine has been hijacked by overpriced private corporations and self interest, it has become an industry that pays twice as much for half as much.
On the other hand, at leat the way I see it, in Russia there is some sense of country, and a desire to get the respect they deserve. This has given birth to what many people smarter than I have said is a scenario where much Russian military hardware ( anti ship missiles, anti aircraft missiles, helicopters ) are better than the West. Oh and Nuclear too.
Bring a hand ful of equipment to a fight you yourself picked in the other guy's backyard, and wonder why you get your face melted off.
p.s. the SU 25 is a nasty little piece of work as well. Recall that is the one that shot down MH 17.
That, and the A10s will probably need a part which can only be made of some metal sourced from Russia.
At one time they estimated losing up to 60 A-10s a day if a full fledged conflict broke out with the Warsaw Pact.
https://medium.com/war-is-boring/an-a-10-pilot-could-hope-to-last-two-we...
I imagine Electric wires are a problem too.
So the pilot gets maps & is briefed on where the radar and other threats are for each theater or battle field. I assume they are in a support function... to harass enemy tanks.
But look in the cold war the biggest scenario I heard was that massive Soviet Tanks and other Equipment would move in from all directions in an all out attempt to take whole countries or more all at once. If it is just Poland that is a smaller area and would think a smaller Russian Force.
So the Battle Plan would look much different from the Cold War. But it could be both Germany and Poland would be attacked and it could take days to move Russian Tanks into position even after the attack started.
So... there are a lot of variables. How many Tank Battalions can Russia put on the field in Poland and Flanking Germany today... is it less than under the USSR? What does it expose if it moves too many tank Battalions to Poland and flanking? Does it have Logistical Support, Gas, Diesel, Food, Water, Ammo, Rockets, Planes, Trucks, Trained Troops, Shelters... assume they can use commercial vehicles to deliver all their supplies and gas... can they get all the troops & equipment in place at once without giving away the plan? Is there enough terrain to help protect troops from rocket fire and air attacks?
Anyway the A-10 can be used to just slow and harrie the Enemy... plus take out Tanks on the edges or ends... which may be a long way from AAA/SAM.
When the russians line up 10,000 tanks to invade Europe, wherever, the NATO plan was to line up artillery units in front of them and take out the tanks with 1000s of neutron bomb artillery shells. The russkies knew this and the nuclear deterrent worked again and they never did amass tanks... The cold war explored all the conventional scenarios and doubtless some unconventional ones. The Caucus Attack, etc all have war game plan names. Neither side is figuring this out as they go...
For one thing, they were regular fission bombs with oval pits, not "neutron bomb artillery shells". And they only made around 2,100 of them before they realized it was a stupid idea and wouldn't have worked anyway. These shells were reprocessed at Pantex where a large quantity of them disappeared out the back door, probably to Israel after the Dimona incident.
bored
Nowadays!?! Psycopaths have always been in charge. It is just easier to spot them now with the internet.
A-10s are on the way out. I am pretty sure they said sometime in the last couple of years they were phasing the A-10s completely out of service. I guess instead of parting them out and recycling them the old fashioned way, the new improved Keynesian way is to have an operation in theatre and have a massive "broken window" for a GDP "boost"?
The Air Force has been trying to get rid of the for 30 years, primarly because the program does not lend itself well to promotion within the airforce. They were saved severl times by the Army and Marines stating they will take them and the close air support role off the airforces hands (along with the money that goes wth them).
The Marines don't want the A-10 and never have.
Fair enough, I suppose it can't land on a carrier so the Navy can't operate it. But the army most certainly has wanted it for some time.
The Army is set up to support choppers. Supporting the A-10 would require a lot of training and support gear they don't have right now. I agree, it's a perfect fit for the Army.
Some members of Congress have fought getting rid of the A-10 so it's gotten a short reprieve. It's all because the MIC is pushing the F-35 and (wrongly) saying it can perform the close air support role of the A-10. The lies are catching up with the paid off Air Force brass trying to get rid of the A-10.
http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/at-what-point-does-the-usafs-war-agains...
F-35 is a piss-poor substitute for the A-10. It's a piss-poor substitute for the F-18, F-15, and F-16. However, it is very expensive, so it does have that going for it.