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Ukraine Fighting Shifts To Mariupol Whose Capture Would Grant Russian Land Corridor To Crimea
Yesterday, when we reported that the last Ukraine outpost in the rebel-controlled eastern territory, the town of Debaltseve, has fallen into separatist hands, we concluded that "perhaps the only question is whether fighting continues around Mariupol which would enable Russia to have a land corridor all the way to Crimea."
Moments ago we got the answer when Reuters reported that "pro-Russian separatists have launched mortar attacks on government-held positions near the coastal town of Mariupol in southeast Ukraine and are building up their forces there, local military reached by telephone said on Thursday."
"Right now there are mortar attacks on Shyrokine," a local military spokesman said referring to a village about 30 km (19 miles) east of Mariupol, along the coast of the Sea of Azov.
"There is no attempt to seize our positions up to now. The rebels are bringing up reserves," the spokesman said.
Well, since the Minsk ceasefire is officially over before it even started, one can be sure that an attempt will be made. The reason: as the updated map below showing who controls what territory in east Ukraine currently - with Debaltseve firmly in separatist hands - Mariupol is the last remaining outpost before "Novorossiya" will have a land access to Crimea.
As for what happens after Mariupol, too, falls? Well, the broke Ukraine government is just making it too easy. As Reuters also reports, "Ukraine has suspended supplies of gas to its eastern regions because the gas network was damaged by fighting between pro-Russian separatists and government forces, Ukrainian state gas firm Naftogaz said on Thursday. "Due to the extensive damage of the gas transport networks, the supply of gas ... was suspended on Feb. 18. The resumption of gas supplies is not yet possible because of the ongoing hostilities in the region," the company said in a statement."
In other words, with Kiev fully cutting off east Ukraine from its control, it will be up to Putin to swoop in and "save" the territory from its host government which no longer cares about the fate of the people living there.
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"That will do donkey, that will do..." -- Shrek.
The Ukie's make pretty maps.
Too bad they omit all the Ukie artilery and armor and only show the Russian stuff (all situated in Russia for emphasis).
To Kiev!
First they need the control over the gas crossing in Novopskov, north of Lughansk. ;)
We don't need no stinkin Minsk II ceasefire.
The ceasefire was an amusing distraction. That said, I think the chance of linking all the way to Crimea is a bit of a stretch.
Bob:
And so who's gioing to stop them? You ready for nuclear war over east Ukraine?
-30-
It's OK, this is not a signal that they want to fight to the death ... oh ... hang on ...
It's clearly a TOTAL waste of time making peace with the Russians.
Right, because making peace with America is so much better...
...unless you live in Vietnam, North Korea, Iraq, Iran, Libyia, Afghanistan, Syria...
That's a good sheep.
You are objecting to a statement of an implied fact.
I'm not interested in your contrived excuses and relativism. You are an often declared hardline pro-Russian partisan and not the slightest bit interested in such a ceasefire turning into a settled peace.
There's a good blood thirsty mass murdering maniac in drag.
>There's a good blood thirsty mass murdering maniac in drag.
You need to be more specific on whether you are talking about 1) Victoria Nuland, 2) Valerie Jarrett, or 3) Michelle Obama.
I can appreciate the humor, but I was definitely refering to "LawsofPhysics" thanks.
thanks for making it clear to everyone just how much you favor a policy of all animals being created "equal" with some animals being "more equal" than others..
You nazis always out yourself eventually.
Fleeing into self deception won't help you, the bombs are still going to drop on you. But keep digging your grave I'll just watch and applaude your goal of total self-defeat.
Wow! What a fucking pounding.
Did your boyfriend make you bleed again?
Element:
If you Nazis had not overthrown a legitimately elected democratic goverment with $5-billion in illegal US support funneled through the State Department, 9,000 people killed in this war would still be alive.
The blood is on your hands . . . GFY.
-30-
Oh another ignorant turgid dickhead claiming everyone other than themselves is a 'Nazi' (something the idiot can't even define) with zero evidence of any such thing, of course. And you only have to disagree with one of these pathological little jerks utilizing logic and solid material evidence, and this automatically makes you an instant Nazi.
Left Kansas, departed Wonderland, arrived at the Feb 2015 version of zero hedge.
You are indeed a cretin of the first order. I truly get the impression that the wages of your sins are immaterial (Langley meal ticket) and that you actually revel in your vituperativeness. R.I.P. is the best I can say.
I am afraid logic is way beyond your ken. Your personal agenda from the moment you appeared on this website has been all too transparent.
At least the laws of physics make more sense than the law of element...
I hope you get paid in element 79 to do your Hasbara job, if not renegotiate your contract...
The positions are not government held. They are held by the Azov batallion, the famous ones with the SS insignia (wolf hook).
UA troops were moved in a couple of days ago, allowing Azov to be 'rotated' out.
The after effects of Azov's maybe unauthorised attack east, which caused this flare up, should subside.
That's a good sheep. ... Who gets paid for it!
"."
Another brain fart from a retard with nothing whatsoever to add, of any merit - ever.
retard praising himself .
Max Steel,
Please do not feed the trolls. If we ignore them they eventually go away...
Bravo, for taking on the "Putin Can Do No Wrong" lobby .... that infest this place .... look mommy .... I'm a Communist .... cheap thrills for turncoats .... it's so Jane Fawndish !
I'm not not taking sides though Monetas, I don't therefore think the other side is any better (which terminally confuses 100% of partisans). I kick the shit out of all sides, and give credit where due. ... It's the one clear sane rational position to take (don't play) amid a sea of vile manipulative propaganda. Naturally one gets called a few names for pissing on everyone's parade of unmitigated bullshit. ;-)
If you are not taking sides, a good start would be not to take Ukrainian sources at face value.
I won't be taking advice from you, you've multiple times shown you're a Putin hero-worshipping fluffer.
LOL. Unlike you, I don't pretend to be neutral. :)
Are you saying you haven't seen me kick the crap out of Washington about a million times? I did it just yesterday.
greetings from slavs element...
slav women have very hairy vaginas ... it's OK, but not really into that much hair
He relies on usa state department shills and their youtube links as long as they are showing rebels attacking not the other way round . He is an ignorant nato jizzpot .
I challenge you to find even one instance of me posting a political video about the Ukraine war, that is not what I ever do. I detest that crap and don't even watch it.
So the only video you can be referring to was this one, which I gave to you in a comment a couple of weeks ago to relieve your staggering incapacitating ignorance about US DDGs. You kept pretending they were incapable of fighting back so I hope it helped disabuse you of incredible stupor, though clearly not. You must have enjoyed it though, if it's made you that bitter and twisted to remember it. lol :D
Have another look, you can tell Puti all about it tonight, when yer biting down on his pillow:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvHlW1h_0XQ
Wow, you're really smarter than all the rest of us.
Good for You
Your knowledge on Ukraine crisis is preposterous .You never gave me any url regarding us ddg's earlier , mind you . I never said they are incapable . I said they are beatable and clearly you ignored my rebuttal on their capability of fighting back in a hostile environment . It's not rocket science to take them down which you didn't notice and neither you countered your stance on jamming rather you blabbered what your gut said because that's what you do . You talk unmitigated bullshit without backing it with substantial source . Their are alternatives to LRASM which poses similar threat to your ships too . Please pull your head out of your ass nato jizzpot . Bumper stickers for you : "I'm ignorant and proud of it."
thanx for the link now .
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-02-11/putins-top-security-advisor-cur...
I made a detailed comment pointing out exactly how ludicrously wrong the crap you've been repeatedly spewing about US DDGs is.
And it contains the same URL I posted above, so you are proven a dismal LIAR.
You have a problem with reality. You don't seem to like it much, need to embellish and misrepresent it, so you don't seem quite so pathetically stupid and absurd, but it's not working. :D
lol another fail for you jizzpot you quoted the wrong article . Give it a rest ignorant .
E
Know this speaks to your arguement that it's all one sided here. ... But in fact it has all been "one sided" and here is the proof....
Please forgive the date on this. It' should only be used as a primer as certainly alot has happened in the last 10 months! Just ask this guy about the reason(s) why we haven't heard anything from the government of the Netherlands who was placed in charge of the investigation that does not include the Country that lost the airplane and the rest of the OSCE and the ICC for reasons which have yet to be communicated since it fell from the sky last summer?!!!
http://orientalreview.org/2014/05/05/the-white-book-on-violations-of-hum...
I've told you before to get some sort of clue idiot. It is NOT even unusual for detailed airliner accident investigations to take well over a year before findings are released, two is common. 6 to 12 month even for GA crash. You could aid the sanity of humanity by shutting yer cake hole rather than yap about stuff you have no clue about, and not the slightest inclination to find out anything at all before you carp-on like a four year old attention seeking tanty-thrower - about nothing significant. Now fuck off and stop begging for a pat on the head.
I take it back E
You don't get paid for doing this!
The airliner country of origin is normally not excluded from an investigation.
I'm pretty sure I can't help you with that. We know where it was built, we know the company operating it, when know the history of the flight, the families were at the departure point. Page 11 Section 2.1 of the Preliminary Report, "History of Flught". If you're confused, why don't you tweet them about your questions and concerns?
I'm pretty sure I can't help you with that. We know where it was built, we know the company operating it, when know the history of the flight, the families were at the departure point. Page 11 Section 2.1 of the Preliminary Report, "History of Flught". If you're confused, why don't you tweet them about your questions and concerns?
I'm E.
And I'm still living in the mental asylum I've occupied now for.... I'm already 2 hours past my daily lithium intake and am getting highly agitated and nervous without it!
"I'm not not taking sides though Monetas"
Please provide links to your anti-US anti-NATO anti-Israeli comments.
Thanks
Go find them your fucking self, I've been here 4.5 years kicking the shit out of them fool.
you are tlkng to an ignorant tosser here . Dont expect .
Oh no, you misunderstand. It's not that Putin can do no wrong, it's just that I don't want to wait another 30 years until the collapse of the U.S. dollar, and the hard reset/armageddon that will follow.
I'm in my twenties, and I'd rather not be in my fifties when TSHTF. Why, that would be another 30 years of Fukushima's, "climate change" bullshit, Furgesson riots, and Ebola scares. Hell, I don't even think this country could SURVIVE another thirty years if we continue to have so many problems.
I would honestly rather everything blow up tomorrow, than wait through thirty years of bullshit that will make the end result so much worse...
...I don't want to wait another 30 years until the collapse of the U.S. dollar, and the hard reset/armageddon that will follow.
If this is good news for you, you won't have to wait 30 years! /s
In my late 50s I do not look forward to competing with the 20 somethings for scraps in a suddenly very physically competive world. To my advantage I own a lot of equalizers.
In my late 50s I do not look forward to competing with the 20 somethings for scraps in a suddenly very physically competive world. To my advantage I own a lot of equalizers.
Oh boy 83' and how on your words!...
I'm in that age group. And the kids that are coming out of University with no prospects thanks in large part to what our generation has done makes me wonder what is just around the corner.
Outside of the losers in the United Stated military that keep going back for "moar" because they feel they are incapable of doing "anything else"... You might as well paint a bullseye on your back for what they will endure because of our indifference!
As long as you are making lists try these invasions from the same over the same time period:
Korean War - (Russia was also a participant as part of USSR)
Hungarian Revolution of 1956
Czeckoslavakia invasion 1968
Eritrea 1974-1990
Afghanistan 1979-1980
Transnitria 1992
East Prigordodny 1992
Tajikistan Revolution 1992-1997
First Chechen War 1994-1996
Dagestan 1999
Second Chechen War 1999-2009
Russo-Georgian War 2008
North Caucasus insurgency 2009 - present
I hear what you are saying... but pots and kettle's and all that.
Never get into a mud fight with a pig. Everyone will get covered in shit. But the pig will like it.
Germany invaded Czechoslovakia in 1938 and 1968
At least they confine their incusions to bordering states. The U.S. has no such restrictions.
America isn't interventionist... naaaaaaaaaaaa.
Not making any judgement of right or wrong on some of them but here is a nice list.
Korean War 1950
Lebanon 1958
Vietnam War 1959
Bay of Pigs 1961
Dominican Republic 1965
Grenada 1983
Panama 1989
Iraq 1 1990
Somalia 1992
Haiti 1994
Bosnia 1994
Serbia 1998
Afghanistan 2001
Iraq II 2003
North West Pakistan, Yeoman 2004 onward
Libya 2011
ISIL / ISIS 2014.
Ukraine 2014
"Since 1945 the US has bombed 21+ different countries. Been involved in overseas military operations every single year. In fact, discounting the years of American Civil War, in the entire list from 1798 to the present hour there is only 1 year - 1892, when the United States does not invade another country... What went wrong?"
- Robert Newman
It sort of looks like Russia's version of the Monroe Doctrine, excpet our version (USA) tends to extend all over the globe.
Please do not conflate Soviet USSR with Russian Federation
otherwise, USSR did not invade Korea
Afghanistan facts is very different story than western version. Soviets were already there, built schools and other,
girls could attend school for first time, etc. Listen this son of moderate Afghan closely:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xc2KeSkl5H0
Soviet supported moderate govt, which was overthrown by radicals with outside help, bringing later mess..
I doubt you know anything about Chechnya. Try this:
http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2013/04/meet-chechens.html.
Georgia? Drug Addict Saakasvilli, well supplied with arms started that:
http://www.alternet.org/story/112457/that_was_no_small_war_in_georgia_--_it_was_the_beginning_of_the_end_of_the_american_empire/
Saakasvilli now given Kiev govt. position, while wanted by Georgia for crimes.
Just a little, not perfect...but make for thinking before throwing around term invasion
all Russian Federation actions were responses to crimes and outside interferences.
Volkodav,
Guess we're getting down to the details as we realize "how, deeply, FUBAR'd" some Govts' Foreign Policies and Actions turned out to be - with so many lives affected.
Don't recall your Country of Origin/Current Residence (apologies); but here in the USA, we've the Last Surviving Power from the Colonial Wars - or probably better described as The Sole SuperPower Hegemon - running amok with Socio-Psychopathic, Immoral-Amoral NeoCons, MIC, PetroDollar/Corporate KleptOligarchs (For the Libertarians - though I'd be in the top 5% Income Bracket if I were fully employed(and vested) as a Project Consultant, I prefer Eisenhower-Era Tax Rates, rational CEO Pay of Public Companies, and some sort of Mfg Tariffs since we're near the top of the income pyramid), Drug/Human-Traffickers, and PoliceState Abusers - causing grief and societal collapse within, while slowly being countered by various Regional Powers abroad.
It's not a Perfect World; but I think the "ambitions" of Team_USA's Policy Wonks and their Rentier Owners are now leading USA, their Five-Eyes-Club-Buddies, and Vassal/Trade Partners to Militarily Provocative Situations more likely to escalate into something very costly and ugly not only at the conflicted region(s) (as it has for generations); but also at home.
The Term, "trying to get blood out of a rock" may be a good way to summarize their Modi Operandi highlighted here in ZH.
All of those "invasions" border along Russia or were parts of the former USSR.
Not quite the same as the US meddling in the ME, Asia and Africa which dont affect our soverign borders and populace.
Nice try.
It appears the defeat of several recent offensive by AZOV NAZI Guards Battalion to the east of Mariupol were defeated by rebels fighting defensive battles. These attacks have been ongoing for a week. With the Nazi troops suffering heavy losses. Now rebels mortar a few AZOV positions and the western media catches on thet there is fighting there? They missed all the battles the last seven days, in which AZOV was beaten senseless in their attacks. Now that is your western media for you. Liars, but worse than liars is the news they fail to report. But not reporting it doesn't help the dead Nazi troops, who AZOV left for rebels to bury.
Hold a vote today in Maiupol, let the UN carry it out. The people of the city would vote around 75% - 85% to join the rebels. This is bad news for Obama, his Nazi troops are already being attacked in the rear by partisans.
Not to mention countless Native American tribes.
.
...whose credibility cannot be questioned since they've always been so honest, transparent, and straightforward. It is plain for all to see that, over the course of this conflict, Kiev has demanded complete integrity and truthfulness, from the highest government offices to the lowliest nazi rape/extermination squads. If it were any different, it would have been reported in the New York Times.
Kiev, that transparent government which has ejected all Russian journalists and blocked Russian tv.
It's hard to understand much about what's going on the ground in the West. There has been a total blackout of actual events in the cities being shelled by the Ukrainian army. Even those fighting for the army are absolutely certain they are shelling Russian "terrorists" until they are caputured. Lately, the separatists have made it a point to take captives into the cities...to see the people the Ukrainian army has been bombing. To see the destruction...schools, hospitals, factories.
If you are in the West and you have been watching and reading the news, you probably have this idea that Russia has invaded Ukraine to take over...then move on to Latvia...Lithuania...and who knows where else...as Putin has ambitions to bring back the USSR. The fact of the matter is...the USSR was very difficult to control centrally from Moscow and no really wants to deal with all again.
The Russians did not want a NATO satelite on it's border and warned about the various issues that could arise from a coup as early as 2008. The state department didn't listen and funded a revolution led by nationalists. These want to accelerate exponentially the process already in place as it is. That process would be the conversion of a moscow controlled soviet republic into an sovereign nation. That conversion includes changing regional uses of the russian language and the education of the new generations to be geared more in line with a Ukrainian line of thinking. The issue is that border with Russia is a bit confusing to an untrained eye. There are plenty of Russian speaking, Russia alligned Ukrainan citizens who have Ukrainian passports who did not want Kiev to be controlled by ultra-nationalists. The revolution was led by people who have extremely radical views and the speakers on the Maidan Square stage included Oleh tyahnibok and Dmitro Yarosh. Read up on those two...and their organizations. Their followers have the following differences with those in the east: Ideology, hereos, beliefs, holidays, language, music, humor and allignment for geopolitical partnerships. Once the radicals came to power and it was evident they would try to sweep the country with their ideology...the peple in the east started to get concerned. Mainly because the people who represent them...russian speakers often, were boo'd in the Rada...the microphone was turned off when they would take to the podium....and their potential presidential candidate in the last election was stripped down to his underwear and was abused. Feel free to check the story...the guy's name is Oleg Tsarev. So...now they were cut off from having a voice, no representation and the radicals were doing anything they pleased...passing whatever laws they wanted. I would imagine if this happened to you and your family...you would probably try to organize some sort of movement...maybe a tea party style protest. Well...in that part of the world...people don't like to talk much. You'll know this if you ever end up around drunk Ukrainians in a club or a restaurant...heaven forbid you bump into one...or look at his girl a second too long. They're not much for talking...and they're really into doing. Plus...if we're talking about Donbass...they're the quiet but hardened ones. Generations of hard labor, working class men. They took up arms and showed the new ruling radicals what it feels like when you don't let that region voice their opinion.
So this whole notion of "can't make peace with the Russians" sounds funny and border line retarded to someone who is actually familiar with how it all went down.
You had a whole bunch of fucking so called hard asses storm the government...which didn't let their cops use force even as they were being burned by molotov cocktails...they didn't start shooting until they were actually being shot at but it was too late.
Now these so called hard asses are geting their asses handed to them by the people who are sick and tired of being told that they dont have a voice. And there's nothing Russian about any of them really...except the language they speak. They are fighting to live the way the want to in a land which was tilled and mined by generatation after generation in their family.
Google " Odessa union building May 2nd" and take a look at evidence of 40+ people being burned alive in a building while those who escaped were beaten to death. The opressors are those being handed more weapons by the West.
I leave you with this...many moons ago...the Americans fought off an opressor and gained independance. Imagine the Americans being called terrorists and an outside party providing more weapons to the Brittish and dictating terms.
Excellent summary, UpAndComing.
It's missing the various oligarch's interests and mafia-style gang wars, but that would have taken another three pages of detail. Suffice it to say the non-Russian-leaning oligarchs wanted to clean house of the more Russian-leaning clan heads, but that had nothing to do with the people of the East or West. The biggest oligarch left standing is the currently West-leaning Kolomoiskyi, the new czar and warlord of Dniporopetrovsk. Dniporopetrovsk is actually one of the heavily Russian-speaking, Yanukovych-voting Eastern oblasts, but it has a lot of industry and business interests that Kolomoiskyi doesn't want to lose at any cost. Note: nobody asked the citizens of Dniporopetrovsk for their opinions or vote - Kolomoiskyi just had himself appointed as head.
And I would reword: "...the Americans fought off an oppressor and gained independence...," to say that "...British subjects in the American colonies rebelled against their unrepresentative British government for an independent, representative U.S. government..." I know the U.S. wants to hide the fact that the founding fathers of the U.S. were (by historic British accounts and current U.S. definitions) French-backed terrorists and separatists. The U.S. media is careful to avoid any sort of comparison between Donbas and the U.S. revolutionary war because this interferes with their narrative of Ukraine fighting for independence from an 'oppressive' Russia (their characterization, not mine).
People who do not 'get' the current conflict in East Ukraine only need to substitute Donbas for the American Colonies like this: "...Ukraine subjects in the Donbas region rebelled against their unrepresentative Ukrainian government for an independent, representative Donbas government..."
Then terms 'Pro-Russian' and 'Russian supported' rebels can be identified for the thinly-disguised propaganda that they are. It's like the British describing the American revolutionaries as a Pro-French rebels or French-backed terrorists because France aided them. While technically true, it mis-characterizes the entire purpose of the American revolution.
I don't know where you are from, but I hope you don't think that this is the predominant view here in the West...Many, many people here are just as upset with the way this whole thing has been mishandled by our Western "diplomats". Of course, our corporate-controlled media would lead one to think otherwise...they are wrong, and their archaic views are despised by plenty. But unfortunately there are also a big group of flag-wavers who take the bait eagerly, because it DOES feel good to have settled on an "enemy" when things are uncertain, like now...
You'll hear us called "Putin-lovers", and ridiculed for our views. We're told that we "don't understand what is at stake", that we are foolish to think Russia isn't mere moments away from sending tanks rolling across Europe and throwing us all in the gulag.
They present a cartoonish version of Russia straight out of Orwell's 1984. And while Stalin may have fit that bill, he is dead, and the USSR no longer exists. Now Putin is being presented as the new 'bunny-boiler' who wants rape and pillage the entire world because, well, he's 'nuts' and can't be trusted. And besides, he wants to resurrect the old Soviet Union, and if we don't stop him, he will kill all our men and have his way with our women and send them all to Siberia to work in the salt mines....
Not all of us buy this horse-pocky, upandcoming, and I just wanted you to know that.
Any reasonable person, looking ONLY at the actual facts, would at least have to acknowledge Russia's obvious interests in a nation on its border going through a civil war, which is what it IS. They would see that Russia stepped in, secured its interest in Crimea, and did NOT then proceed to roll over the rest of Europe. A reasonable person would anticipate that ANY country in a similar situation would do the same if it could.
My American POV would be that the Russia has every reason to be concerned about an unstable nation on its border...especially if said nation was being actively 'courted' by people who have staked an obviously hostile position against it. Our ONLY appropriate response would have been to express concern, hopes for a satisfactory solution, and a gentle reminder that the world is watching. Then we should have taken Ukraine aside and told it in no uncertain terms that we won't let the Russians roll over them, but to get their SHIT together and face some realities...
For one, Ukraine and Russia HAVE been 'together' as a nation for many years, and that history cannot be negated overnight. There are long standing business, religious, familial ties that cannot be severed. THAT is a reality. A complete disengagement will take years, and not sprout overnight after demonstrations and challah bread.
They should have been reminded of their strategic significance to Russia, and been warned against unnecessary provocations, like their IN-YOUR-FACE! turn to the West at a time when tensions are already so high. Their security could have been ensured and business ties encouraged, but they should have been told we will NOT interfere, and they need to work this out with Russia. They should never have been given the idea that we would get involved in what is essentially a nasty divorce dispute and take sides. All that did was make everything worse.
Besides, as an American I'm sick of countries conducting their business from behind the skirts of the US military. Israel does that shit all the time, knowing they can get away with it because we'll back them up no matter what. Our name is MUDD all over the Middle East partly because of an Israel that does what it pleases under the umbrella of our protection...I've no desire to see that happen in Ukraine and end up in a pissing contest with Russia.
Well, whatever the giant, pulsating brains of leadership DO, remember a lot of us are NOT on board for it. They do a lot of demonizing of the Russian position here, I imagine they do the same over there about Americans...I've come to believe that 'regular folks' all over the planet have more in common with each other than they do with their own leaderships, and that 'nations' are just a construct of those leaderships designed to keep us all apart.
Well, then no time was wasted, because we never TRIED!
If they are under attack, what the heck is the local military doing answering phone calls from reporters??? Is this a joke?
just in case anyone was in any doubt as to the ussr's intention
The Cult of Putin will not like your statement.
The cult of anti-Putin will love yours.
Nobody was in doubt that Russia would defend its rights.
the right to invade a neighbour? yes nobody was in any doubt...they have track record
Seeing as the Easterners want to secede, the only 'invaders' are Kiev's forces.
you mean the russian terrorists
Pendragon, you have to understand that this conflict is not as cut and dry as the State Dept and media would have you believe. When DC funded a coup more favorable to NATO, the first thing the new rulers did was to threaten the rights of their ethnic Russian citizens of the eastern part of Ukraine, even going so far as to demand that Russian should not be spoken or recognised as an official language. Now isn't that asking for trouble? It only got worse from there until the east decided to secede. That's why Crimea seceded without losing one soldier, and notice no occupation riots or guerilla wars afterwards.
Son, if that shit was happening in Mexico, do you have ANY doubts we'd be there?
Seriously...you anti-Russians really need to stop. I'm no fan of Putin, but AM very sick and tired of the Cold War mentality where everything the Russians do is evidence they are trying, Pinky and the Brain-like, to "Take over the WORLD!"
Has it ever occurred to you that there are people on this planet who have to worry about protecting themselves from US?
Proof please Mr. Nazi.
The West makes it absolutely clear it arms the Nazi's.... soooo where Russia is concerned,,,Where's the beef?
I've seen Russian style military movements,,, Georgia, where western media tried even then to make them out as monsters. I remember a young girl on FOX news thanking Russia while the pundits were wringing their hands, unable to pull the plug on her as it was live.
From what I see Russia could go into Ukraine with both hands tied behind their back, and blind folded and still route your buddies in less then a week.
Don't be too hard on the tard. I don't think mister kittycat is a nazi. He's more of a NATO fan-boi, a General Philip Manlover, if you will.
and the difference is?
Touché.
They have a track record...yes...unlike the US...or the Brittish or French as they have never tried to invade or colonize anoth...oh wait.
It is a joke for an American, who has invaded countless nations, and bombs 7-8 every day, to complain about foreign invasions.
Washington DC and it's followers believe in their devine right to kill and invade anywhere on a whim, while they howl like scalded dogs when any nation defends itself against an American installed Nazi Government. In fact, rebels are made up of locals with a mix of volunteer Russian citizens of about 10% in number. While Kiev employs Poles, Balts, Germans, Albanians and others to fight in Nazi Battlions like AZOV. 350 foreign fighters bodies lay outside Donetsk waiting for someone to pick them up, nobody will. Poles and Balts make up most of these dead. Even Kiev does not want these dead bodies, so they rot. And good for them too!
i am not american. still laughing? not ukranian either...i know how the apparatchiks love to beat up on the "ukies"
Made me laugh.
Sure, sure, you are not american. You are 'american'. The delusion or the duplicity is thicker than I thought.
Neo-comms ... h/t turtle on a post dude.
the putin fluffer circle-jerk.
"Debaltsevo" please. The name of the city is "Debaltsevo". Please stop using this borderline retarded "debaltseve" western-media-politically-correct newspeak. Debaltsevo is inhabited mainly by Russians.
Same goes for Kiev which has been called Kiev for centuries and not "Kyiv".
Please explain for us monophones. What are the ethnic derivations of the various versions of these placenames? To see which foreign news source uses which version would be useful information to have.
Since a couple of days, maybe a few weeks, western media has - as if centrally coordinated - switched to Ukrainian names even in cases where it makes no sense.
In the case of German news which I sometimes follow, the city of "Kiev" is now referred to as "Kyiv" - which is beyond moronic because, as an example, nobody would feel the need to refer to the Italian capital as "Roma" and Germans continue to use "Rom".
It is probably enough of an indicator when a media outlet uses braindead "Kyiv" instead of "Kiev". In this case you know that it has entirely absorbed the orders of the minstry of truth to scupulously apply Poroshenko's naming conventions.
Thank you. That's what I was asking about. Not sure why my question got down-arrows. I'm not familiar with the Slavic languages, and I know in these areas where borders have shifted throughout history, such things are very important. Gdansk vs. Danzig means a lot. Etc. Changes in which language's name applies to places signify a great deal of blood shed.
(Can't explain the down-arrows as well...).
The topic of renaming places is indeed a highly charged one. The first thing the Israelis do and did after having ethnically cleansed an area from Arabs was to rename the place. After WWI Mussolini tried it with South Tirolia but wasn't successful. People resisted until they were given full autonomy in the 80ies.
Whenever names are changed one an be sure that some genocide-freak is behind it.
It is probably enough of an indicator when a media outlet uses braindead "Kyiv" instead of "Kiev". In this case you know that it has entirely absorbed the orders of the minstry of truth to scupulously apply Poroshenko's naming conventions.
How bad could it be g_f when some Zionist Yid is now telling us that Russia invaded Germany and that the Russians were not necessarily the ones that liberated Auschwitz???...
Mossad played a key role the last 20 years in Lvov and Galicia helping to organize the Nazi groups. Israeli and USA money went into youth groups, news papers, school books, youth clubs and other forms of organization. The Nazis were raised from youth in this western province, a province never a part of Ukraine, till the Soviet, German Polish settlement in 1939. Stalin added Galicia to Ukraine. After the USSR ended, CIA and Mossad spent billions courting Lvov's strong Nazi party and Galician Nazis. Organization culminated in thousands of well trained Nazis who carried out the Coup in Kiev, on orders from the USA and Israel. Each Nazi was paid 50 dollars, organizers and commanders got 100-500 dollars a day. A months wages in Ukraine. These shock troops carried out the coup, and Israeli probably provided the trained snipers to kill a 100+ people to cement the coup. All the while Zionist Media in the USA and EU lies every step of the way.
What is so funny are the posters who use CNN as their baseline knowledge of history and Ukraine. They know nothing, but speak with authority. This is funny, you must admit. I know zero about Ukraine they admit, but I have a real solid opinio, because I watch CNN.
Good question, Guy!
and Lwow for the Poles in the west
Debaltsevo, Kiev is Russian
Debaltseve, Kyiv is used for Ukrainian (west)
Thank you. Can I assume that the choice of which form of the name to use is something carrying a great deal of meaning?
But, but, but. Then Putin's judo buddy can't make a billion dollar profit on the bridge contract across the Kerch Strait.
You mean it is just unfair because it should have been one of Poroshenko's pals?
better worry about your own country
another waterfall effect in gold and silver this fine morning in new york
correction: "..in gold and silver futures.."
not in gold & silver, as in metal
moderate syrian rebels direct B1 bombers to hit ISIS around Mariupol, Ukraine
Other moderate syrian rebels confuse B1's with Syria air force and direct S300's to shoot them down. Ukies deny responsibility.
.
President Urkel Momjeans: "Did I do that?"
+100 as I snort coffee all over my keyboard from laughing.....
Putin is running this by the numbers. NATO may do well to...reassess their position.
>From The Vineyard of the Saker... "the beginning of the end for the Nazi experiment in Kiev."
One can only hope.
With ceasefires like these who needs war?
Oh my goodness gracious me?... Those "nukes" must have just arrived USPS earlier than anticipated from Uncle Joey and Ensign Hunter? At least something in America works and is uncompromised in it's efficiency in the business of "delivery"!!!
Guess that Zionist Jew fuck Kolomoisky "IS" that stupid and dangerous just like Binny N. after all???!!!
Wouldn't want to be a Russian Jew in Russia right about now as I think the only way you could prove your loyalty to the Russian Federation is by taking up arms with the NovoRuss to defend Mariupol from Kiev!
Russian Jews are fine in Russia. They've lived there for decades and were never singled out or treated differently in modern times. This is by *their* own insistence after recent awkward Western attempts to paint Russia as anti-Semitic. There was an earlier effort by the West to warn about rising anti-Semitism in the Russian-speaking South and East of Ukraine - also strongly denied by the Jewish communities there.
The Jewish communities in Donetsk are terrified, but that has more to do with Grad and Tochka-U's fired by pro-Kiev troops landing in their living rooms or at their bus stops.
Israel is exploiting the situation to recruit more Jewish settlers for their ethnic cleansing campaign in Jerusalem. They're very active in Ukraine right now. I'm not against any Jew that wants to emigrate to Israel, as long as their new home isn't built on the bulldozed ruins of a Palestinian family that has lived on that land for the last five hundred years. I'm also pissed that my tax dollars have been used to pay for such ethnic cleansing resettlement for the last twenty years. The fact that Israel needs to 'recruit' new citizens from a humanitarian crisis it may have helped create is immoral by any stretch of the imagination. As usual though, Israel plays both sides of the fence - I notice they did not support sanctions against Russia and are now profiting from new trade agreements with them. Go figure.
Anyone who expected anything other than this is an idiot. Why would the Novorossiyans stop fighting when they've got their enemy right where they want them? Also am I the only one who noticed that they didn't have any official representation at the Minsk talks? Putin was there, but Putin technically has no control over them. Unofficially I'm sure they get plenty of support from Putin but how could anyone really take this thing seriously without their representitives there. If I were them I would keep pushing forward. If I was Poroshenko, I'd be rethinking alot of things.
Exactly. The Minsk talks were a joke, without any rebel representation. And further, when Ukraine wouldn't even admit their guys were trapped near Debaltsevo and they insisted they should be allowed to ride out of there with all their gear, even though they supposedly weren't surrounded. As someone else said, "What the hell was Poroshenko thinking?" Well, he wasn't thinking of reality on the ground. He was posing and acting the part for Western consumption.
That map, being from the Ukrainian Ministry of Defense, is pretty damning. If that's what they're publishing, the reality is probably a lot worse for them.
I am completely aware of who Putin is, what he is, and what he represents. No illusions here, and I never have had since he came to prominence. But his response to this situation has been exactly what one would expect. No surprises at all, and no hasty over-reach. For the moment, for his own reasons, he's willing to play along with the US scenario of an interminable war of civil extermination. I suspect his thinking is to let the situation put so much stress on European/US relations that cracks emerge. The Turkish pipeline plan announcement makes that pretty plain. If Putin were looking for a war, Russian troops would have over-run Ukraine last summer at the latest. So that's not his aim, for any of a number of plausible reasons. Perhaps he doesn't mind watching Ukrainians kill each other, as the Nazi Germans didn't mind watching Ukrainians and Poles kill each other.
Which leads me to one of the odder aspects of this; the behavior of the Polish government. If it weren't for Uncle Sugar, and the Pole's odd faith that America will never let them down, I can only imagine they would hunker down, not take a side, and cement their Eastern borders. If you want to perplex a Pole, tell him he can kill a Stalinist Russian or a Banderite Ukrainian--but only one, and he has to choose. Why the Polish government is vocally supporting Banderist Ukrainians is very weird. If there's anybody they might hate worse than Russians, it's Banderist Ukrainians. That's US money talking, and Polish wishful thinking.
The Europeans are having a choice thrust upon them, which is something they must have hoped would never happen.
I think Putin is worried about one thing, and that is his approval rating with the russian people. And rightfully so. This is war, doesn't matter if you love russia or hate russia, america is undoubtedly at war with russia. The economic front is obvious to see, but I think if Putin bum rushed kiev then he would give the CIA the ammo they need to start stirring up unrest. They could convince some people that he really is a psycho dictator stalin 2.0 whatever. If he is, then he is doing a good job of hiding it by playing mr nice guy at the peace talks and press conferences. I'm sure he wants to blitz the kiev junta, but he has to stay blameless. As for the poles, only God knows what they are thinking...
That makes sense. I also don't by the persistent meme that "Putin is trying to reinstate the USSR." Bullshit. Putin saw the collapse of the USSR from the inside. The last thing he'd do is reinstate something that failed. Sentimentality is not one of Putin's prominent traits. Now, a modernized Russian Empire I could see as an aim of his. It would be a global threat to US primacy, but without the emotional reaction Americans have to the phrase, "USSR."
I don't think anyone in Eastern Europe needs to be encouraged to be afraid of a rising Russia. The psy-ops are for the benefit of Europeans and Americans, and maybe with the hope of throwing a little doubt into the Chinese.
Just wanted to toss a sincere thanks your way for your post, forced me to search on what Banderite meant and now have 10 tabs of reading to do. But, IMO, essential reading, as it adds additional layers of context to what's taking place right now, and highlights some of the secondary dynamics in play. Anyway, posts like this represent the best of what ZH has to offer in its community and again, my thanks to you for your contribution to this thread.
check out a blog called colonelcassad.livejournal.com Its in russian but they have a faithful english version, link should be easy to find. They were talking about banderites. It is an all around good resource from the people on the ground in ukraine right now. Very insightful to say the least. Some one else posted in a comment here, cant remember who but mad props. I love this site
Will do, thanks for the source!
In reading up on this stuff only very recently, I've had to keep my wits about me. These people hate each other for actions and reprisals that go back to the schism between Constantinople and Rome, when the Catholic and Orthodox churches split. That process started around 800 AD and became official finally in 1054 AD. That's not even ancient history to them. Not a day goes by in that part of the world without something bringing that up. After over a thousand years of brutal tit-for-tat, all the ethnic, tribal, linguistic factors are layered on, not to mention economic divergences, access to energy, water, food; all the usual stuff. But to keep score for 1200 years? An incredible amount of hate gets built up. Hard for me to comprehend. But none of the history or current affairs in that part of the world make any sense without some awareness of all that horrific history.
Make no mistake. There are enough 'ethnic hatreds' floating about to make just about any nation go against any other nation, any group against any group.
Time to step up and see the forest instead of the trees. What is more interesting than the 'hatreds' is the answering of the question, who or what is stirring them up?
Post cold-war, its pretty clear who is doing this, where they come from, where they are based, and why they are doing it.
The same gameplan is used between Ukraine/Galician againstRussian, Sunni against Shi'a, black against white, and going back to the early hits, class against class.
Its worked so well that they are basically in control of all the major centers of importance in the USSA, whether Congress, Academia, the MSM, Hollywood... or Wall Street, something they have patiently been working on since before 1913.
Hint: they came from 'khazaria' and another hint, they are doing it because they find that it increase their power and leverage to stir up strife, fear, uncertainty and chaos.
Try reading some Oded Yinon to get another clue.
The english version of the Colonel Cassad site, which is run independently and, due to the time and work involved, translates some, but not all, articles is at:
http://cassad-eng.livejournal.com/
You can also use the yandex.net machine translation. It's a URL prefix (which changes from time to time) followed by the site address. Currently this version can be found at:
https://z5h64q92x9.net/proxy_u/ru-en.ru/colonelcassad.livejournal.com
The same guy also runs the Voice of Sevastopol site, which provides its own english version at:
http://en.voicesevas.ru/
Thanks! Eastern European history is something kind of new to me, but what went on there between about 1920 and 1945 is gruesome beyond belief. I read Dr. Timothy Snyder's "Bloodlands" on someone's recommendation not long ago. I think Dr. Snyder has some biases, but the fact that he's been attacked for being both too sympathetic and too hostile to Russia is a pretty good sign. Whatever the viewpoint, it's some seriously disgusting reading.
Everybody in Eastern Europe is very much aware of what can happen, that's for sure, regardless of where they see their own interests. We in the US are not aware of that. Without that knowlege, why Eastern Ukraine reacted the way they did to the Maidan coup, the makeup of the government that came to power in Kiev a year ago, and their earliest legislative inititiatives, doesn't make much sense. I have absolutely no doubt of Russia's involvement in Eastern Ukraine; none at all. And having some inkling of what Eastern Ukranians; ethnically, culturally and linguistically Russian; must be fearing, it comes as no surprise whatsoever.
As an American born and raised, I've never even heard of such barbarity except in scary stories. These people's parents and grandparents lived it.
swmn guy. Just had to log in after a three month hiatus to upvote and give you kudos on your post man. Cogent level on point and hilarious analysis man. Congrats brother
Thanks!
Mariupol is easily within the 40km exclusion zone set in Minsk 2. Ukraine is supposed to pull back away from the city.
BULLSHIT
The withdrawal is of artillery.
The mortars attacking the Ukrainians within their own state borders are short range artillery.
Guns, howitzers, cannons, single- and multiple rocket launchers are artillery.
Mortars are battalion and/or company-level support weapons, as are heavy machineguns.
haha! are you an idiot or what? The only difference is the angle of the barrel and range, they are indirect fire ballistic pressure tube weapons. A machine gun is not indirect. They are nothing like each other. A collection of mortar teams is called a Battery, as per other forms of ballistic artillery.
Next one is Odessa and this is where Kolomoisky should be publicly burnt, very slowly.
GOOOO PUTIN!!!!!
Fuck The EU!!!!!
Besides, what's obama gonna do? Draw a pink line? Gotta love that fuckin "ceasefire" ... dingleBarry is no doubt thinking right now "but I thought we all agreed???"
Many geo-based facts in this article simply not true! LOL!
Just look at the map, even at your own map. Donetsk oblast (region) has no land connection to Crimea! Mariupol is just a city is Donetsk oblast. There are two more regions between Donetsk oblast and Crimea. These regions are Zaporozhie oblast and Herson oblast, one of which is even shown in your map!
"...Mariupol... would enable Russia to have a land corridor all the way to Crimea." <- not true!
"Mariupol is the last remaining outpost before "Novorossiya" will have a land access to Crimea." <- not true!
Please check the map before writing!
While maybe not as, um, passionate as you, I too have been confused as to how Mariupol represents a land bridge to the Crimean landmass when it's 200mi/300km away from its northermost edge. That's a lot of ground to cover, like saying controlling NYC would grant a land corridor to Boston (in terms of distance).
That said, I haven't seen too many Area of Control maps showing who's in control of that 200mi stretch to the SW of Mariupol, so I do allow that I'm working with an incomplete picture here.
Things are happening really quick (RU-EN automatic translation):
http://rusvesna.su/news/1424341339 19.02.2015-13:22
Medvedev would like the Department of Energy and Gazprom to prepare an offer of humanitarian assistance in the form of gas supply for the needs of DNR and LNR. Prime Minister of the Russian Federation Dmitry Medvedev has instructed the Cabinet of Ministers and the Ministry to do everything necessary for the delivery of humanitarian aid to the starving in Ukraine, including Debalcevo.
http://rusvesna.su/news/1424343921 19.02.2015-14:13
DNR has gas coming directly from Russian Federation. Donetsk People's Republic has gas coming directly from Russia, said the speaker of the National Council of DNR Andrey Purgin. "From now on the Republic uses gas. Now there is heating, the switch is on."
Guys, study the map - Mariupol won't give land corridor to Crimea.
Why is Mariupol important
Located on the Azov Sea, some 100 kilometers from the rebel-held provincial capital Donetsk, Mariupol is seen as a key element of a potential land corridor from Russia to the Crimean peninsula, which the Kremlin annexed from Ukraine in March, should the city fall to the rebels.
But because Mariupol and Crimea are separated by several hundred kilometers of territory controlled by the Ukrainian government, the city's sea access and status as a temporary regional capital controlled by Kyiv could be of more significance to the separatists.
Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko in June declared Mariupol the provisional capital of the Donetsk Oblast, whose official capital, the city of Donetsk, is controlled by rebel fighters.
Just days before rebel leader Aleksandr Zakharchenko announced the fresh offensive against Mariupol on January 24, Poroshenko said the Russian army had recently sent 2,000 troops into eastern Ukraine.
Should the separatists manage to push through to Mariupol and take control of the city, its port could provide a critical logistical lifeline for the rebels and Russian fighters battling Ukrainian forces.
The Mariupol Sea Port handled 13 million metric tons of cargo -- including steel -- last year, making it Ukraine's fifth largest port in terms of freight traffic in 2014 and by far the busiest commercial marine hub on the Azov Sea, according to official government data.
Should the rebels capture it, this would essentially deprive Ukraine of the Azov coast. Not in a geographical sense, but in an economic sense.
source
Find / Change "Pro-Russians" to "Russians"; find, change all:
There, fixed it for you.
Find/Change "Marley" to "retarded". There, all fixed.
"...we [ZH] concluded that "perhaps the only question is whether fighting continues around Mariupol which would enable Russia to have a land corridor all the way to Crimea."
Eh? Mariupol is over 200 miles from Crimea via land, and it goes through another oblast on the way too and several large/key towns - how is that enabling a land corridor "all the way to Crimea"?
What a daft story - check your geography.
Also, do you think publishing Ukrainian 'government' maps really aids understanding of reality?
Finally, you [ZH] say, "..it will be up to Putin to swoop in and "save" the territory from its host government "
Poor English - if you use double-quotes it's quoting direct speech/text, whereas your intention was to use the word save in its ironic or novel sense, so single-quotes should be used.
Do you really think, by your use of irony, that Ukrainians aren't being saved from annihilation from their own 'government' (note single-quotes) by the DPR/LPR resistance?
This site used to offer intelligent analysis.
I'm glad Obama is President. Any other would be asshole deep in WW3 by now. Thank you Prez Obama.
Obama is too busy getting his asshole punched by Reggie Love to waste time on trivialities like foreign policy.
Hahahhaha.... "tongue-punching the fartbox"..... hahahahahaha
Fuck yeah! STOMP the western stooges!
from the USA I'm Rootin'for Putin
Good lord at the trolls today
What will be the next MSM distraction to take the attention off of the latest DC fail?
PS - these are the initials of the biggest twat in DC right now. That bubble head that made Chris Matthews look like a genius the other day wishes she had the balls that Psaki has.