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Germany Gives Greece Just Enough Rope: Varoufakis Says If Troika Rejects Reforms "The Deal Is Dead And Buried"
As usual, the fine print of any European "deal" is revealed not only after the agreement, but after the US market close. So for all those waiting for the real punchline, here it is - it also is the reason why Greece got until Monday to reveal the list of "reforms" it would undertake:
"We’re in trouble next week if creditors don’t accept Greece’s reforms", Greek Finance Minister Yanis Varoufakis says. "If our list of reforms is not backed by the institutions, this agreement is dead and buried."
That's bad. But... "But it’s not going to be knocked down by the institutions."
For his sake, let's hopes he is correct in predicting what the Troika, pardon, Institutions will do. Because this is precisely what Schauble meant when he said that the "Greeks Certainly Will Have A Difficult Time To Explain The Deal To Their Voters": under the conditionality of the Troika's approval, the Tsipras government now has to walk back essentially all the promises it made to the Greek people - promises which by some accounts amount to over €20 billion in additional spending - or the Troika, pardon Institutions, will yank the entire deal and the Grexit can then commence.
And that's the bottom line.
It's also the reason Schauble was gloating: because he gave the Greek government just enough rope with which to hang itself.
Then again, if and when the Tsirpas government is booted out next once the Greek euphoria turns to disgust and disillusionment, does Germany really want to negotiate with Golden Dawn instead?
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The EU would probably breathe a sigh of relief if he did take it off their plate.
This was a chance to have crediblity, he was weighted and found wanting.
Golden Dawn im sure will have a lovely time at the table with Germany.
Greece will want "more talks" and "more talks" and................"talks.........." lol. Its over folks.
Why does Schauble feel compelled to pour salt in the wound? He's got the negotiating prowess of a 3 year old fighting over a gummy bear at daycare.
All these paper promises aren't worth the asses they'll eventually wipe. Greece bought itself some time, and Spain, Portugal, Italy & France are all taking notes.
For those truly in power it's never enough just to win...the other guy has to lose
Sorry, but you're kind of insulting the kids at daycare.
It's Friday evening, the Greeks are walking away with "a deal", guaranteeing them a continued flow of ELA-money (=how many more billions withdrawn from Greek banks?) until the first Greek banks declare bankrupcy. Then bank runs then haircuts, refused bank bailouts (!), grexit, the full program. Syriza will be able to put all the blame on the EU, Eurozone and ECB. And at the same time, lots of Euro bills ended up in Greek hands, while lots of Euro bits & bytes remain in rest of Euro zone.
So who exactly will have a hard time explaining what to their voters???
+1 Yen, Although I'm on the pessimistic side of this, that's a view I want to applaud. It is entirely possible that having bought a little time Greece will come back at an angle that will wipe the smirk off Schaeuble's face, although at this point the only thing that is likely to do it is Grexit, which wasn't in Syriza's mandate in the first place. You see, I think Varoufakis is a revolutionary, not a Greek one as some here supposed, but a European revolutionary. All his efforts have been focused on changing the European system, not Greek. Perhaps that was his Archilles heel.
Although disappointed in their defeat, I cannot share in the general condemnation of Tsipras and Varoufakis. They really faced insurmountable odds and had a good go at defeating the banksters, expressing and injecting some much needed truths into the public consciousness to the bargain. Looking back at my posts, I always hoped, yet feared much the same outcome. They were toying with the threat to collapse the major banks - sellers of derivatives - to repudiate untenable debts and yank their people (& others in the eurozone) out of debt servitude, replacing loans for investments. They were lucky to get out of the meetings alive imo, considering the gravity of the threats to the global financial system itself. They may still yet suffer the consequences of their audacity, even perhaps be usurped by the infamous Greek penchant for bribery and corruption. I hope not, but even idealists have to eat and the banks have infinite amounts of fiat to entice the saints themselves.
We shall see. Fingers crossed.
This planet needs an enema<>
I'm studying fusian reactors & anti gravity.
I will conquer gravity!
Vacillating-Varoufakis. This clown has ZERO CREDIBILITY. Greek people are soooooo fuuuucked!
Big hat - no cattle, sheep plenty of sheep he will need them for company when Golden Dawn takes over...
Even if this latest gets derailed Varoufakis has lost his credibility. He approved it.
Others may be correct, he now appears to just be controlled opposition. The 4 months will be used by the EU to prepare a trap that Greece cannot escape so easily. If Varoufakis was not prepared to do it now he will not be in 4 months.
May see the Golden Dawn leaders harrassed with trumped up charges and efforts made to outlaw their political group. And for their reputation to be tarnished in the papers. Small false flag opps such as killing of a few minorities and then blaming it on them for example.
It appears Varoufakis is going to do what he promised his voters he would not. He also made promises not to sell off the infrastructure, natural resources, land and islands to the outside bankers. Perhaps these things were actually the plan and taken from Obama's PR method of promising the opposite of what is intended.
Will you get it in your fucking heads? Varoufakis works for george soros. This is a well known fact admitted by varoyfakis himself a few years ago.
I have not seen that type of information but am now inclined to believe it due to his actions.
If this is so Greece will be economically destroyed and pillaged beyond hope.
most people suck, lie, cheat, steal. so what is the big deal here? outcome predictable.
who has the cookie?
if that big talking now humiliated Greek had any balls, he'd flip that former Nazi out of his wheelchair and commence to goose stepping all over his fucking smug head...
but we already know he doesnt.
This just in... Mr. Panos states we got our assed kicked and our Ouzo drank by a guy in a wheelchair, Varafoukis he is fuckin geniouss, gennious, genius......
Game Theory bitchez
tic tac toe maybe...
Schauble gloating ?
I find him always looking
- half asleep
- drunk
- almost bankrupt
- just left by his wife (or mistress)
- half dead (or a bit more)
And the Greek people get screwed again. You think they'd learn.
As we have learned?
The compromise : Yanis gets 4 months to save face and put a plan B in place. ECB gets 4 months to start QE. The banks get some respite to avoid Grexit and ripple fall out.
Its just buying time. But what Greece wants is to try get out from under the liquidity gun that Schauble held to their heads, hoping that if deflation continues they could get a better deal of payment of principal over 40 years at low interest rates.
Nothing changes about the structural problem of galloping debt and no growth faced with general deflation.
What now? If the WS spike continues the harder will be the fall; so goes the doom n gloom logic.
And meanwhile in Ukraine...
He can try to explain that macro economic thinking to the dudes surrounding Parliament with the torches..
Nothing new here. Lie you head off to get in office, then do a complete about face once you get in. What can the people do staring down a gun barrel.
Syriza could learn from Obama. Try to create fear through terror to justify tyranny. People will always give up liberty for safety.
If they're in the mould of all other Greek politicians they'll clean out what's left of the Treasury and hightail it for Monte Carlo.
Check Schauble's boat. That's , boat race ( face ) or coupon. His daughter just got engaged to a member of ISIL.
I want to see him go up the apples ,on his own two plates, without falling on his boat.
Does anyone else but me wonder if the Greek government officials were threatened? Like with death? As well as their familiies? Does anyone think the Troika (or, really, the forces behind them) wouldn't...haven't in the past... resorted to AT LEAST that level? Milosivic, Ghaddafy, Hussein, all threatened the Petro-dollar as do, currently Iran, Syria and Russia. Anyone see a thread?
Pretty funny you got a down vote.
Lol @ Schaeuble. The previous government had already agreed to (in the, famous in Greece, Gikas Chardouvelis email) several major cuts! This deal involves no cuts whatsoever, results in a lower primary surplus target and aims at a new negotiation, this time from scratch, on the way forward on debt sustainability. Not to mention the German finance ministry had unequivocally said NEIN yesterday to the same stuff it said YA to today.
Plus, 4 months later we'll be closer to elections in Spain and Portugal. If you thought Podemos were lurking, now they'll surge!
The Empire Struck back and struck back HARD!
HOWEVER, It could be counter-productive to the EU. Because, if Syriza can't sell this to the people of Greece, lose a "no-confidence" vote, get booted out and Golden Dawn come to power, then, negotiating with GD will be tough. Because GD won't be interested in negotiating with the EU. That's why they're an extremist party. Greece will be automatically be withdrawn from the EU and immediately alligned with Russia as a satellite state. GD will accept any terms from Russia, provided Russia covers their finances.
Therefore, Russia's border just expands that little bit closer to Europe.
In short, the EU may have won the battle, but may lose a massive war...
Any political party in Europe that puts its own people first and wants to clear out the illegal immigrants swamping their country is branded 'far-right' and 'extremist'.
I want to be absolutely clear about this. When I use the word "extremist" I meant in a complimentary way. Because if it was a mainstream party, they would try negotiate a deal, which means people will lose out. Whereas, Golden Dawn have a vision and intend to execute it. There would be no half-measures (Mike Ermantraut?), no compromises, no anything. We want out of the EU? We're getting out of the EU! No re-negotiating of treaties, no referenda; just complete withdrawal. I may not agree with their policies or the way they execute them, but I do respect they'll do what they say.
Just like UKIP in the UK. Do I agree with everything they say? No. Do I respect that they want to execute policies that benefit the people rather than special interests? Yes.
I hope that makes it a bit clearer.
do they back the platform with threat of violence?it takes just take a few to scare millions.
Exactly what I was thinking. The EU/ECB is playing with fire. Do not think for one moment that Russia will not use this to their advantage, even if it means a free handout - but with stipulations. Which the Greeks will take in a heart beat... the alternative, GD comes into power and ALL bets are off, and Russia's move is pretty much in the bag... The next move will be massive political upheavel in the other PIIGS nations, combined with ISIS/ISIL may actually spawn a campaign to eliminate the "foreigners" as they will be perceived as the threat and the reason for all the financial issues... funny how history is stuck in the circular loop mode...
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The future of Greece is bright!
They bought 4 months time, after which Grexit,
So, on Monday, if the banks dont agree, Grexit will be upon us and with Drachma issued, Greek exports and vacations will be cheap again, Life will be good again in Greece.
Or, they wait 4 months, and at that time, if they dont get a better deal, Grexit will be upon us and with Drachma issued, Greek exports and vacations will be cheap again, Life will be good again in Greece.
The outcome is the same,but under game theory having 4 months to plan your strategy will be extremely helpful.
Add on your equation the fact of the BRICS bank hopefully being, by then, operational, and the (growingly interesting for all southern european countries), prospect of courting the Eurasian Union, and you have the meaning of the victory attained today by the Greeks. And if thigs get real hard in all this hibryd warfare, they drop their financial atomic bomb and comfortably default on their debt (owned by the european banks) while being assisted by the Eurasians.
While, by then, all the major german auto manufacturesrs will have factories built in Russia, the Greeeks can still buy mercedes, if they really have the bad taste of willing it.
And Uncle Vlad will even, no doubt, push Schauble's wheelchair in future negotiations on the subkect, being the real Gentleman he is.
Better hurry 'cause Germany may also be on that path.
Remember the 'advisors', and translators were banned from that meet in Moscow.
For sure propositions were made. Interesting Spring ahead.
The future of Greece is a Civil War and a millitary dictatorship. Because if Golden Dawn gets traction and they will other special intrests will want to put a stop to that.
Millitary force is always the last option, because if it fails then europe will feel war again.
This is not a game and history is not theory.
so put 6/28/15 in your calendar as another round of this shit. can't wait. think i'll buy rope and piss up it...
Like most seemingly stupid ideas implemented on a broad scale, such as the European Union, a tiny group of billionaires always ends up toasting to their profits.
the bailouts will continue until morale improves
or how about: austerity will continue until living standards improve.
There comes a time when you just have to say "FUCK IT"!! Haven't they reached the FUCK IT stage yet? Really? Come on Greece FUCK IT and walk away. Let the chips fall. FUCK IT.
Every drunken spending binge has to end at some stage. Seems it's ended for the Greeks and they're now facing the morning after. I don't envy them but they brought it on themselves. Just a pity that they can't hang the bankers who enabled it all.
the populace did not directly. goldman sachs did via the corrupt government, who certainly also got paid off well and the people bought into it.
yes monty - god bless you.
the people were dumb and believed there leaders. they DESERVE it.
however, i am a humanitarian. and a leader. if one chooses to be a leader, one should look out for the flock, including educating them to avoid finding bad leaders.
no sarcasm.
which is why i admire clinton/bush/obama and company - because they clearly are doing everything they can to elevate the common man in usa....
"the Tsipras government now has to walk back essentially all the promises it made to the Greek people"
$20 million in the swiss bank account will ease the burden
No nation can stand up to the beast. Certainly not greece. All the nations neoCONzi's newly voted in or soon to be voted in, all have wish bones for backbones. When Russia roars and China's dragon get pissed off entirely, the beast gets a shot to the head. Oh! The west will be back but certain it's been set up for a certain skull cracking death blow by appearances only to rise from the ashes!
The EU was set up to benefit the international bankers and multinational oligarchs. Period. The peoples of Europe were sold down the river by their corrupt leadership. And, now, Greece is on the way to being the first to bail -- along with LePen's France,
As one commenter said today:
“Greece will force Europe to reconsider its policy. A Europe for the 1% or a Europe for the 99%? The EU will never be for the 99%. If you believe that, you're a fool.”
And:
“The rotten, corrupt, EU dictatorship causes misery and problems wherever it interferes in the world. The EU is the cause of all the trouble in Ukraine. The sooner the EU has gone the way of the USSR, the better.”
Also:
“Before the inception of the EU and the Euro, people in Europe were living a better life than they are now.”
OR, as Tarantula wrote:
"Greeks are very smart and hard working people, Go to the real friends China and Novo Russia. And who will follow Greece now....?
"Remember that Government Sachs led them into this big mess with bad advise showing Greece how they could be member off the EU by fraud.
"Greece had to pay Government Sachs 300 million for this bad advise that led them into disaster and let their countrymen suffer.
A former minister off Finance in Greece was a former employee off Government Sachs.”
All on RT post-agreement news today.
The future bodes ill for the EU oligarchs, not the Greeks. Rebellion is in the air as globalization and its European embodiment, the EU, are shown the door and nationhood reenters.
As for the consequences of the EU, Joseph A. Hariss said recently in The American Spectator, “There is literally no more local," in Europe.
“The majority of the laws in EU member countries are now made by anonymous, unaccountable bureaucrats in Brussels. Adoption of the euro has obliterated such cherished, centuries-old currencies as the franc, deutschemark, lira, peseta, and florin. Christianity itself has disappeared in large swaths of the continent, often replaced by an aggressive Islam. Jobs have been outsourced and non-European illegal immigrants flood across porous EU borders to compete for the few that remain. Meanwhile, mainstream politicians still either don’t get it or lack the political courage to tell the public the blunt, unpleasant truth. In France, that means painful root-and-branch reform.“
In short, the EU's days are numbered, evidenced by Europe's amazing rise of populism.
"once the Greek euphoria turns to disgust and disillusionment,"
The deal guarantees greece remains in a Depression for years ... what's not to like??
Fuck it Greece, just say FUCK IT and bail. Charge German's triple for everything in your country when they come to vacation.
Is Troika, pardon "Institutions" watching the government how it spends every penny?
4 months allows government to implement "reforms" and see what sticks.
If Greece exits, Kraut taxpayers will be on the hook for €50 billion at least.
Wolfie needs Greece.
50 BILLION dream on...
Through the majic of rehypothication of Greek assets, more like 5 trillion.
They can't leave, or the whole abortion that is the fractional reserve system crashes.
A house of cards suspended in mid-air with a foundation of hope is not the basis of a financial union.
I did say €50 billion at least (€50 billion is the amount Greek debt guaranteed by the German taxpayer via EFSF).
German state would have walked away from 50 billion. No more "good money after bad money" tactics.
Ain't no tarp big enough to cover all that junk DB is holding.
Hope and Change - 0
Nail-Gun - 2
Greek finance minister sold out to the banksters.
Better is to wait for their final accord and see what’s in there. I think over all it will be a very disappointing compromise. Just an other can kicked down the road.
What if Greece reneges on it's debt but stays in the Euro?
Who's to decide if they have to leave the monetary union if they default on their debt? Denmark decided to keep their Krone but still gets payed in Euro's for example.
"does Germany really want to negotiate with Golden Dawn instead?"
Well you know, nazis amongst eachother...
Just kidding. But has Germany forgotten its own past with rampant debt and inflation out of control back in the 1930s? That is why Germany had debt forgiven in 1953. To prevent something like in the 1930s from happening again.
Then again, Germany has shown a tendency to start wars if it isn't doing well on the economy front. Greece, not so much.
Exactly my point. Debt and inflation in Germany led to social unrest and the rise of a 'great leader' who would 'fix it all'.
West Germany did.
Germany owns you now Greece! You'll be bankster debt slaves for the next 100 years.
And we have a contract to collect all the Greek GOLD!
Let's see what happens next week. I don't think the truth is being faithfully reported. I've got a feeling we are just seeing round one of a 4 round cage match and the Germans just pulled out a knife. It may be over, but let's see what the sneaky Greeks have in their back pocket.
We'll see what the Greek government once the cash is deposited in the bank.
I promise you everything baby but we've gotta do the deed now. Ahhh, see ya baby.
Do you think that the money is given to the Banks. I don't think so. It is given to the Central Banks who are in bed with all Central Banks. One Family. Thats what Greece doesn't want. Maybe if the new financial Minister will have control over it?
Then they may make changes that is good for the people and ideas for other countries in the same position. HOPE.
And it plays out as many of us predicted. SYRIZA ran on hope and change. Well so much for that. Actions and not words were needed and many go red tagged big time for stating it. People forget the Greeks want to use the Euro and this is what they will have to do to use it. Now SYRIZA has 4 more months to brainwash the Greeks into either to continue under this oppression because they want the Euro or convince the Greeks that their only way to freedom is to leave the EU. I bet they choose the Euro and austerity and SYRIZA is out.
We have heard the bankers’ side all day and the cowboys who are having a wonderful time. Now let’ s wait for the Greek government’s response so we can finally decide what really happened.
Yanis, slip the wheelchair Herr a brown, paper envelope. If that doesn't work break a coctail gla$$ on his way out.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolfgang_Sch%C3%A4uble
A little humor:
50 shades of purple: couple tries to repeat scenes from the film and ends up in hospital.
- A couple of Recife, Pernambuco, left excited movie after the premiere of the film 50 Shades of Grey and decided to put into practice some of the film. The result was nothing exciting: just in the hospital ward.
"I think we missed this thing better match the time to stop beating," said businessman Roberto Soccolo. "I think she took also I walked around and giving a escapades may have excited in time to take the blows in my face."
Have Renata, Roberto's wife said to have liked to order but think they could have combined best word to be shouted in time to stop. "'Still' was not a good word," he said. If would again? "I think not hit cool," said the woman.
link:
http://sensacionalista.uol.com.br/2015/02/13/50-tons-de-roxo-casal-tenta...
hehe!
I had seen posts claiming that Greek could simply default and walk away, happily hereafter. Well, that was not what I saw in a Mafia movie.
Sure, if the creditor is the lousy pension funds, hedge funds, private institutions, then Greek can walk away. But if the creditors are other sovereign nations....?
What if the Germany and other Eu creditors are hell bent to get the loan back.....Say
Germany, etc., impose an special import levy of 3% from Greek to the Eu for the sinking fund for payback loans...What Greek is gonna do? Pay up the 3% or no export to Eu...
What if Germany, etc., impose a special fee of $50 Euro per person for anyone departing from Greek and arriving at Eu creditor nations...What Greek can do? Sure, don't go to Eu....
OK, Germany, etc., impose a special fee of $50 per person for any person departing from Eu and arriving at Greek.....
What Greek can do?
The Godfather from Italy has spoken: pay me back money or pay me back with......one way or the other, I am gonna get paid...
All these measures that you suggest are illegal in the EU and also against WTO regulations. Greece would sue Germany for damages.
And when that new gas pipeline from Russia via Turkey to Greece would be constructed to replace the gas supply via Ukraine, Greece could then simply charge some 'transfer fees'.
The EU and US think they are above the law. They'll invent some reason for why they are right in imposing these measures, just as they are doing with Russia.
I upvoted you for that one. That is the essence of power games. But with that they show their true nature, the mask comes off. And then perhaps also the gloves. The world is increasingly disconnecting itself from the old structures: the new BRIC bank, the alternative for SWIFT, countries dumping the dollar in trade, etc.
Straightershooter, you forget the Lone Ranger who rides through the West to assist those challenged by the lawless banksters – Vladimir Putin.
2 greenies
one for good sarc, and you led me to laughter
out loud
If there is a Grexit, the EU will simply confiscate the Euro deposit account balances and EU member bonds owned by any Greek citizen that are held in EU banks or countries. The Greeks haven't had enough time to get their cash into USD and into US Treasury Bills.
What do you think the four-month
"extension" is for, limpwit ...
Germany defaulted in 1933, it was ready to take on the world six years later.
Default works in ways austerity just doesn't.
If you have a determined, hardworking population......Which Greece does not. They never wanted to "default" or to leave EU... Just more free money.
Your opinion forms a one-track idea, built perhaps from reading (or being told) one-side statements. Due to my job, I've been back and forth in Greece which allows me to say that the Greek citizen, in general, is hardworking only to something that is fruitful. When a nation is swung 180 degrees off course after joining the Eurozone, there's no saying how this will result; and, this was not forseen by the European Constitutions. If Greece decides to leave, or be shown the door from the Eurozone, then this procedure will take 3 years always according to EU regulations. By 2018, the Phoenix currency may fall into Greece's hands easier than other European countries, because 3 years from now is time enough for Greece to jump off the Euro-pebble onto the Drachma-pebble only to land safely onto the Phoenix currency. (The Economist: "Get Ready for the Phoenix," 1988, Vol. 306., pp.9-10.)
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=157940421008619&set=pb.100003779...
Batman,
There is something in the German DNA and work ethic that defies the Greek and Italian culture. It will be interesting what Putin does next and whether NATO folds. I see a lot of lines redrawn on the maps.
No...I think Russia and China both didn't sign off on the drachma---that was the real problem.
The thumbs up was just for the picture so varoufakis could paste on his Facebook page
No...I think Russia and China both didn't sign off on the drachma---that was the real problem.
The thumbs up was just for the picture so varoufakis could paste on his Facebook page
I don't think the proposed Greek reforms are going to be acceptable at all.
Varoufakis hasn't backed down Grexit is still on.bwahahahahahhahahah, the little Communists are gonna have to walk back all their promises! Suck that Greece...
And the EU will follow in their footsteps, then Amerika, as the whole ponzi collapses....BRING IT!!!!!
I don't think the "troika" can refuse on Monday what they gave today.
So Greece will push ahead its reform budget hoping to renegotiate down the road in 4 months.
4 months is what Lagarde and Co gave Yanis.
The Greek government thanked Dijselbloem in a statement. I have the impression they don't like dijselbloem that much so the statement must be sarcasm. They must be up to something.
Looks like somebody got payed off.
Time will tell. Now, the newly elected leader, may have some controls over the new funds. Maybe with the funding courts could get set up and charge then trials will get to those who caused the Problems. One can only hope, Greeks have some hope after they had none...............the masses there backing the Elected could start a new Greek spring....Focus and corraling the Criminals that sold out their futures for what.....Derivatives whom no one can follow or understand. Except those who profit from the theft of whatever they could get.
Yes sir. I'm hopeful, I do not like to see the Americans start WARS everywhere, even if their economy is based on them. USA "Christians"................Not Likely.
looks like nobody knows. til monday
Not sure why Greece is not going with Russia - and leaving the Euro - makes no sense
Could have just been a head fake to get a better deal. Who knows if and what the Russians acutally offered.
Germans don't gloat over other's misfortune. There is no Schadenfreude over their European, Greek brothers .... although the usurious Shylock bankers might!
Does anyone have a link to the camera feeds in the main square in front of the Parliament building in Athens? Might be an interesting watch. Or not. Maybe the Greeks have been shaving the hair off their balls for too long. Extend and pretend will carry us into warmer, i.e. better rioting weather.
Don't have the patience to go through it in detail, but the gist of it seems to be that Greece needs to find more money to pay its debts/interest - if it wants to stay with the program, that is.
Two obvious possibilities are that it could screw the people that voted for it a bit more or screw the people who didn't a lot more. Here's my suggestion:
Announce on (bank holiday) Monday that all assets outside of Greece are to be declared to the tax authorities. Penalty for non-declaration: 50%. All these assets to be taxed at 2% per week. All assets, within Greece, (cash especially) above a certain threshold subject to a haircut to deal with the nation's debt.
Check with Spain and Cyprus for the admin details. Or I'll do it for a percentage :)
Greeks should have voted Golden Dawn, GD would have told the Euro Bankers to shove their usury racket. Till next time.
I think the Greeks themselves are more afraid of GD tax collectors.
Carr: Them clothes got laundry numbers on them. You remember your number and always wear the ones that has your number. Any man forgets his number spends a night in the box. These here spoons you keep with you. Any man loses his spoon spends a night in the box. There's no playing grab-ass or fighting in the building. You got a grudge against another man, you fight him Saturday afternoon. Any man playing grab-ass or fighting in the building spends a night in the box. First bell's at five minutes of eight when you will get in your bunk. Last bell is at eight. Any man not in his bunk at eight spends the night in the box. There is no smoking in the prone position in bed. To smoke you must have both legs over the side of your bunk. Any man caught smoking in the prone position in bed... spends a night in the box. You get two sheets. Every Saturday, you put the clean sheet on the top... the top sheet on the bottom... and the bottom sheet you turn in to the laundry boy. Any man turns in the wrong sheet spends a night in the box. No one'll sit in the bunks with dirty pants on. Any man with dirty pants on sitting on the bunks spends a night in the box. Any man don't bring back his empty pop bottle spends a night in the box. Any man loud talking spends a night in the box. You got questions, you come to me. I'm Carr, the floor walker. I'm responsible for order in here. Any man don't keep order spends a night in...
Luke: ...the box.
Schauble: "What we've got here is failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach."
There is a difference between giving in and retreating.
Syriza needs to organize a broader coalition, prepare the Greek people for the battle ahead, build its external alliances ...
and choose the ground of battle!
We're so used to see chicken-shit sell-out politicians walk away from their promises that we're afraid to believe in anything but charging the enemy's guns right now.
I think you are correct. At this point in time, Syriza has a very weak hand. In four months we are that much closer to the election in Spain that could usher in a like minded government with Podemos.
WhyWait
You don't have a lot of upvotes here but I gave you another. Agree 100% with you and Accounting101. Exiting NOW was never a realistic option: exiting suddenly and chaotically turns ALL their European friends into instant enemies; there is no alternative currency in circulation or even printed yet; they have no trading partners established outside the euro system; and they have no friends yet outside the euro system. Russia and China have offered to consider some support and help if necessary, hinted at a couple of benefits they may give, but that's hardly a reliable trading block. Those aren't even promises, let alone contracts. Exiting RIGHT NOW TODAY would be a short trip to ruin of the country and fall of the government, since no alternative is yet in place. Obviously, nobody - not Russia, not China - is volunteering to be the next ECB sugardaddy and dictator.
This gives everyone notice, and the brand-new Greek government time to get something else set up. I'm not sure why more time is now considered a bad thing, which can only be to Greece's benefit. As far as I can see, so far the Greeks have consistently said "more time" but the troika has pushed tight deadline after tight deadline, of which Monday is just the latest. (Typical bankster rush-bullying.) Before we hear about any reforms Tsipras might commit to, I think they did the only realistic thing that could be done. As some have said, their mandate is not to exit the euro but to end austerity - which probably entails exiting the euro. We will see on Monday what kind of reforms the Greeks might offer for an extension of time until what will almost certainly be an exit of some kind.
Everyone is now on notice that change begins within four months, which to me is orderly and civilised. Right now all Tsipras has to explain to the people is, 'We have four months' extension', and 'we've promised reforms to the EU, more on Monday'. Maybe some of those reforms will sell the Greeks out to austerity. We don't know until we see them. Nobody should expect any major changes until a realistic alternative can be worked on for at least a month or two.
Pretty sure 4 months from now will find troika exactly the same. But if I were in the Greek government, I'd use that time to set up some trade deals with extra-EU partners, or at least some consistent dialogue, get closer with Spain and Italy's opposition and maybe see about co-ordinating something if elections go their way, and certainly get some drachma printed up and a plan to convert that DOESN'T cause the population to wake up 100% broke the morning after Grexit. Who knows. Maybe they are the same old assholes as the last lot were. It's too early to tell. I'm cautiously optimistic about Putin, about Xi, about Erdogan, about Tsipras. We'll see.
I think the troika are Rothschild theft agents. I hate central banks with the fire of a thousand suns. But even in my happiest fantasies I certainly never expected Grexit news this soon, since the new Greek government does seem to have a brain. Still to be shown whether or not they have a spine to match. So far this is not a lot of news one way or the other. Tyler, I love you for publishing all the news as soon as its hot, but I think you're over-reacting. At least wait until Monday to scream sell-out?
Anyone wanto bet the banks do not reopen on monday?
Monday's a bank holiday in Greece, Why would they? Edit: second thoughts, what odds you giving? Might take you up on that.
Should be: after monday.
Ominous timing. Open Tuesday with Drachmas?
Perhaps the buying of time is exactly what the Greeks need in order to give Russia and also China enough time to do some maneuvering to swoop in like a Eagle hunting its prey. The prey being the EU and West in general.
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No politician can survive, literally, the Langley & company operators supported and upheld by the Roman Catholic satanists. Ironically, the European nations in the most economic trouble are the Roman Catholic variety and the nations holding up the EU by means of real production come from the Reformed Camp. However, the strong-arm camp, as noted by the history of the EU Commission Presidents, are the Roman Catholics, again the satanists.
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Keep in mind their are only two types of people in the WORLD; those for Christ and those opposed; the majority are opposed, yet seek the very thing He freely gives...Love & Peace. Man is so stupid.
yep
Didn't America buy six moar years of time by printing $10 trillion?
Fuck the non productive Bankers. They take taxes, live the High life, tell lies and make threats against those whom they should be working for. Giving the Banksters money that they gamble, with out personal risks .
They threaten Wars, bribe Politicians and thru decisions, cause misery. Seems they worship Money. The pendulum will swing back, maybe after the People have mass revolts against the .01% and force a return to honest money. I am amazed those who have lost all including Hope haven't gone off the deep end and out right took back their pound of flesh.
It is too bad that OWS failed. I think the next time it may not be as peaceful as it was the first time, even the Army have become more outspoken, next it may be the Police?
I just can not believe that as a policepersons they would fire upon the masses..........but then again it is America.
Exactly how are you and you and that person over there any different?
Just because the size is bigger doesn't make it any less true...as it is written "there is none who does good, no not ONE" [just in case you felt you might be the exception].
alas
The reason you can't believe these stories is that you are a greater consumer of American propaganda than you think.
The TROIKA and Germany have relented and now given Greece a say-so in how it is hung out to dry. By the neck with rope or upside down by the ankles with piano wire.
How bout on a chaise lounge near the bar by the swimming pool, frolicing with Sports Illustrated swim suit models?
If that's what's on offer, I should arrange some meetings with the Troika and ask to be hung out to dry ;-)
Where's, "When it get's serious, you have to lie" , Jean-Claude Juncker?
ZH does not seem to see the difference between the German people and the international banksters controlling their politicians. It's the Shylock banksters who are running the show.
I think the rope will swing back and hit Schauble square in the face....
Greece—1, Germany—0
The show is about to begin!
http://o-antonio-maria.blogspot.pt/2015/02/no-grexit.html
Quick reply on behalf of a non conventional view of Schaeuble arrogance...
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-02-20/are-two-big-problems-deutsche-b...
See, Syriza's not completely insane.
They knew full well that their MorerFreeShit economic programme would have been impossible unless financed by foreign taxpayers. Hence, when those foreign taxpayers balked, they gave in. Given that said economic programme would have wrecked Greece even further, this is great news. The only problem is that the Greeks might (and, sigh, probably will) react by throwing out Syriza and electing an even more radical socialist party (who might not let a little thing like economic reality stand in their way).
So this "deal" is better than what the Russians/Chineese were offering?
Oh wait, did the Russians actually ever offer a deal? Mights and maybes aren't cutting it.
Smells like another gullible populace was sold a bill of goods.
Fools around here actually believe the Tea Party stands for restraint in spending and fiscal responsibility.
What a sick joke that turned out to be.
Whatthefuckis Bleh, fuck this greekshit. HELICOPTERMONAY FTW!
Now run along and tell your Xerces that he faces free men here......
Monday...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oatYw2H7H_g
Ruined In A Day - New Order
Meh
first minute OK, the rest not so much.
what if on monday greek hands the troika a blank sheet of paper?..monday should be the answer to did the new greek gov fold somehow I do not see varoufakis giving the troika what the troika thinks he will give them.
If Syriza is serious it will have ONE year to put its house in ORDER. Before debt payments really hurt.
'Cos no amount of money will change anything if the economy does not pay its taxes, work out in the open and do honest value added. That is Syriza's MAIN Problem, putting the economic house in order.
Once that is done or begun Syriza can then activate Plan B; to get its debt in line.
Without cash, without a producing economy, Greece is a dead duck. First things first.
Winning time to turn the economy round is just the beginning : get to work Syriza.
Getting loans and shitting on German banks will not be a big deal if they can first get their house in order.
HAHA! Meet the new boss same as the old boss.
they have not signed off on the fine print yet
HAHA! Meet the new cocksucker, same as the old cocksucker.
greece says we are broke
EU says no your not
Tsapiras will say whatever he is told to say and the Greek voters will pretend to believe it, ............til the check is cashed, then back to the status quo of "we'd like another loan and can't pay off the last loan", repeat until liquidated like Ukraine
We shouldn't ignore that Syriza's hands were tied. The Greek electorate want to retain the Euro by a large majority and the street demos recently and last weekend were to reinforce a narrow negotiating position available to Syriza. Troika and Germany will have known this.
Without the option/threat of defaulting and exiting the EZ, Syriza's hands were well tied.
The Greek people know which side their moussaka's buttered on (!)
Agree with many of you. How pathetic of a sellout by Tsipras and Varoufakis.
Enough already. Stop wilth the Kabuki theatre and bring on the Golden Dawn.
They even have a branch office in New York
https://xaameriki.wordpress.com/
xaameriki – ????? ???? xrysh aygh GOLDEN DAWN news in english
Favour Ask I
Oaf Via Rusk
Via Ark Of Us
Greek Spring?
Coincidence that Russia rating cut by Zandi while fed leaks dB sub will fail it's stress test. And that German finmin's roots in the kohl legact. The same kohl who called Merkel a dolt
Varoufakis just wanted to get the hell out of there for the weekend. How much of this shit can one person take? I hope Varoufakis ends all of the proposed reforms with "...on the condition that Schauble gives me a rim job".
Ha! Greece accepts being a vassal state to Germany. Wonderful. You'd think they'd have already learned their lessons after 600 years of occupation....
A Evans-Pritchard @AmbroseEP · 4h 4 hours ago
"After hearing all sides, the Eurogroup capitulated just as much Greece. Troika idiocy on fiscal water-boarding is checked"
Greece averts bankruptcy and softens austerity in last-ditch deal | The Telegraph
Greece claims to have defeated 'exhorbitant demands' for more cuts and averted suffocating primary surpluses that would choke growth for years
By Ambrose Evans-Pritchard
10:29PM GMT 20 Feb 2015
Greece has secured a four-month reprieve from eurozone creditors at a last-ditch summit in Brussels, heading off imminent default and a traumatic rupture of monetary union.
The interim accord gives Greece breathing room to flesh out its economic agenda and reform plans, and effectively scraps the draconian fiscal targets imposed by the EU-IMF Troika. ...
Eurogroup finance ministers have softened demands for yet further austerity, accepting that fiscal tightening should fit “economic circumstances”, the core Greek condition. This is a victory for Syriza on a crucial point. “It is a balanced agreement. It will help Greece to get on its feet again,” said the EU economics commissioner, Pierre Moscovici. ...
92 comments
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11426378/Greece-averts-bankruptcy-and-softens-austerity-in-last-ditch-deal.htm
little boy yahoofakeass who cried wolf...this is what the 10th time in 2 wks this yahoo has drawn a red line?
Unless this deal falls through over the weekend or next week (and it might) then Syriza is finished.
Golden Dawn is the next government in Greece on a platform of "Only we can be trusted to honor our promise to withdraw from the Eurozone".
A lot of ZHers don't realize that Syriza never promised to withdraw from the eurozone. In fact, they swore they would not. I don't even know for sure that Golden Dawm has promised they would. In any case, Golden Dawn could never gain the popular vote. But there are other parties that favor a Grexit (in Parliament there is the communist party, and not yet in Parliament are smaller parties that favor this).
The important question is 'how much did it cost for Goldman and the TBTFs to buy off the Tsipras leaders?'
Greece employed the services of Goldman Sachs to commit fraud on its behalf to gain admittance to the EU. EU should have thrown Greece out as soon as they knew about it.
The kleptocracy of Greece ensured that EU membership meant a decade of tax evasion for the 1%.
Greece has got used to handouts, which was the original intent in joining the EU.
The EU should have let Greece leave the EU instead of pouring money down the drain but what is money nowadays, just digital stuff that can be made up by sovereigns whenever they choose.
Tspiras can hold another referendum on whether to bend over or exit. :)