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If The Troika Says "Nein" Tomorrow, Here's What The "New Drachma" Will Look Like
While Greek officials remain 'confident' of their ability to deliver a reform package that the Troika-esque "institutions" will accept tomorrow (notably a bank holiday in Greece), it appears the Germans are not so sure. Hans Michelbach, a finance expert of the Christian Social Union, told the Handelsblatt newspaper it is "inconceivable that the German parliament can make a final decision on the bridge program for Greece before the end of February." Having already seemed to capitulate on the promises made to the electorate, and now beginning to crack down on tax evasion, we wonder how long it will be before the dreaded 'Drachmatization' occurs (by dictat or revolution).
After the cabinet council on Saturday Yanis Varoufakis told reporters...
“I am almost certain our list with the reforms will be approved by the institutions, they won’t say no. If institutions say No on Monday, there will be a eurogroup meeting on Tuesday. I hope they say Yes.”
The Greek proposals are thought as structural reforms to be legislated and implemented for the time of the “Bridge-Program”, but the "institutions" do not seem as confident...
The German parliament is unlikely to approve extending Greece's bailout before it expires at the end of the month, a senior lawmaker of Germany's ruling coalition said Sunday, according to Bloomberg...
Hans Michelbach, a finance expert of the Christian Social Union, told the Handelsblatt newspaper it is "inconceivable that the German parliament can make a final decision on the bridge program for Greece before the end of February."
The CSU is the Bavarian sister party of Chancellor Angela Merkel's Christian Democrats. The finance ministers of Greece and the other eurozone countries agreed on Friday to an extension of the bailout program for the highly indebted country, which has to be approved by the parliaments of some of the supporting countries, including Germany.
The Greek overhaul proposals must be examined thoroughly by the governments and the parliaments, and that process won't be concluded by Feb. 28, Mr. Michelbach said.
If there is a "nein" tomorrow then Tsipras has stated that he will call for an emergency Eurogroup meeting on Tuesday.
Meanwhile, as The BBC reports, as if the capitulation on promises were not enough to stir the angst-ridden heart of the Greek population, the Greek government will crack down on tax evasion and streamline its civil service in its bid to secure a bailout extension, minister of state Nikos Pappas says...
The government is working on a package of reforms that it must submit to international creditors on Monday.
If the reforms are approved, Greece will be granted a vital four-month extension on its debt repayments.
Mr Pappas said the reforms being proposed would take the Greek economy "out of sedation".
"We are compiling a list of measures to make the Greek civil service more effective and to combat tax evasion," he told Greece's Mega Channel.
He added that talks this week would be "a daily battle... every centimetre of ground must be won with effort".
* * *
And so, while the world appears to believe a deal is done... it remains very much in limbo at the mercy of the Germans. And in case anyone was wondering, The Greeks have already drawn up the "New Drachma" notes... just in case...
As News247 reported in 2013, the 6 banknotes (designed by Paul Vatikioti) of 50, 100, 200, 500, 1000 and 10,000 drachmas have pictures of Cornelius Castoriadis, Odysseus Elytis, Yiannis Moralis, Georgios Papanikolaou, Melina Mercouri and Maria Callas...
* * *
Good luck tomorrow Yanis...
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I like the pretty blue one.
Why not a single black person?
It's racist!
As a staunch liberal, I strongly believe we should have a 30-day worldwide debate on why no black artists are being honored at the Oscars, like the new Drachma bills, this year. It is blatantly racist and has become a global issue of grave importance. WE MUST DO SOMETHING about this most important issue of our time.
Greeks are razzzist! Sic Sharpton on em!
And honorable Eric Holder and especially Rev Jesse Jackson who I think already speaks Greek.
With tongue only slightly in cheek, where is the 10,000,000 Drachma note?
I would go with great thinkers from Classical Greece, not people from the modern era where the Greeks are barely fifty years from devolving into lemurs.
They should put Aristotle Onassis on one of the notes, for showing Greeks how to avoid government currency export controls.
Most modern Greeks probably couldn’t tell Onassis from the philosopher Aristotle and what he contributed to the lost art of common sense some 2300 years ago.
Who the fuck red knobbed Manthong? A Plato lover?
PS Know what the Greeks'll do if they're smart? Promise to pay off all their old debts with new Drachmas at the to be market determined exchange rates into Euros.
How much can you print?
Great German experiment a la post WWI if I remember correctly
That and demand Kraut recompense for WWII
Word on the street is that if you fold some of the new notes the right way, it makes a picture of the Parthenon getting blown up.
50,100,200... so 1 drachma has absolutely no value at all? That's rather sad. How are the young'uns supposed to understand the value of a drachma?
Pretty telling they are starting out with 10,000 drachma notes. I guess that's about equivalent to a $100 bill.
They will be Zim Dollars soon enough...
For anyone who is new to this stuff or is trying to educate someone else, this might be a great place to start. It’s long but compared to something like The Creature from Jekyll Island it’s a quick read.
http://debtcrash.blogspot.com/2015/02/history-and-introduction.html
" WE MUST DO SOMETHING about this most important issue of our time."
Can't you fucktards get together and decide exactly what is the 'most important issue of our time"?
Monday Humour
Napoléon Bonaparte & Syriza
http://twoshortplanksunplugged.blogspot.com.au/2015/02/napoleon-bonapart...
does Greece = Zimbabwe?
Zim debt is/was something like 8 or 9 Billion (U.S,) dollars w/ a debt to GDP ratio of 150%.
What's the Greece debt at? 340 Billion?
They better stop worrying about the pretty colorful pictures of dead people on those bills and start adding another 6 or 7 zeros to them if they wanna pay that shit off anytime soon.
Back to the printing presses, bitchez!
"does Greece = Zimbabwe?"
Economically... that is - fooled and abused by Jew usury - yes,
but, racially/culturally no.
Greeks are focused on centimeters when they should be worried about km.
50 to 10.000.... now i understand.....
Knuck, it is obvious that, maybe just until recently, they forgot all about autarkeia, but that’s only after running up more than $300 billion in debt.
I hope Mr. Vatikioti didn't spend too much time designing the 50, 100, and 200 bills; those will be worthless in no time.
Where are the 100,000; 500,000; and 1,000,000?
That's ok. Each withdrawal of a 1000 drachmas or more will come with a free marker pen so that you can add your own zeros when the time comes.
Heil Euro!
"They better stop worrying about the pretty colorful pictures of dead people on those bills and start adding another 6 or 7 zeros to them if they wanna pay that shit off anytime soon."
The debts are in euros, so printing more zeroes on new drachma does not help. You can print all your own currency you want, but the exchange rate to the currency your debts are priced in is what matters. Maintaining confidence in your currency is key to being able to service your debts. Being able to service your debts, in turn, is key to being able to continue consuming more than you produce.
No can do when every paper cut is a CRISIS of severe bleed out proportions.
You lost me at
"History and Introduction"Hey, that guy on the 500 appears to be burning a fatty! Awesome!
I think you mean 1,000?
He was probably thinking a two-paper
2x500 = 1,000
So what's on the reverse side? Backs of their heads?
I bet the Acropolis, symbol of democracy.
"50,100,200... so 1 drachma has absolutely no value at all"
That is what coins are for: small change...
one pretty blue one, coming right up
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6bSrGbak1g
actually black and white though
In Feta We Trust
EU is giving to them up the ass, Greek style
~"In Feta We Trust"~
Can I get that denominated in olives?
One pesky little question - will this new, um, 'money' be debt based and created by way of a fractional reserve system of banking? Not that that is a bad thing because others have successfully implemented such systems. Oh wait.
Beautiful. The voice and the face.
aristotole was pro kennedy nationalist, hence kennedys wife showing up at his door, and his son was -accidentaly- killed in a small plane crash. Like jfk jr.
Kennedy decided he was going to be the hero of the planet, which was never in the script. My beef with kennedy is that him and kruschev had no oversight group to tell them NOT TO DO a certain something that really fucked us all up. Damn men playing with astounding powers. TODAY! Who is the oversight committee making sure the new toys and ideas arent just as powerfully destructive? Damn elites.
He the Community Organizer Judicially Limits His Own Powers and Grants All Dispensation of Indulgences within His Own Collective Vision of Good
relax... it's only gonna get a little more scary, because you've already correctly imagined the worst.
and no one can really ever love Plato, because by definition that love would be Platonic
^^^
She keeps Moe?t et Chandon
In her pretty cabinet
'Let them eat cake,' she says
Just like Marie Antoinette
A built-in remedy
For Kruschev and Kennedy
At anytime an invitation
You can't decline
Caviar and cigarettes
Well versed in etiquette
Extraordinarily nice
She's a Killer Queen
Gunpowder, gelatine
Dynamite with a laser beam
Guaranteed to blow your mind
Anytime
Recommended at the price
Insatiable an appetite
Wanna try?
I don't understand at all why you posted the lyrics, but it's a great tune from much better times
It was the 'Kruschev and Kennedy' reference in the previous [weburke] comment that made that song pop into my head.
YES ~ Great song!
Ah, okay, Gotcha
;-) Peace!
sorry to be vague about what they did, there is so much disinformation today to cover it up.
I set the date of greece being fully controlled as when the decision was made to put greek soldiers in that ballet skirt, a tutu ! and puff ball shoes. How greek men dont refuse to wear that is very telling.
Easy on the puff ball toe shoes. Some of us like 'em with pencil skirts and waxed moustaches.
Ahhh yes, nothing like a pair of hairy legs protruding from underneath a pleated skirt to put the fear of God into another man sitting at the bar.
Puff ball shoes, not so much ;-)
OK. 6" stiletto puff ball shoes with hairy legs and exposed greasy armpit hair...
How's about a drinkiepoo, sailor?
Hi Ho big boyz! I'm the belle of the bar!
(At closing time...lol)
I recognize none of the faces presented here, but Greece has much more to offer indeed: most of classical thinkers were Greeks. Archimedes, Aristotle, Plato, Socrates, Pericles, Democritus... just to name few. You know, southern Europe was more advanced place in their time (BC) than after the Middle Eastern Jewish god came amongst us! Europe of that age was more advanced than Europe in 16th or even 17th century -- almost 2.000 years after their time! What Jewish god brought upon us was calamity!
The people you call Greeks today have nothing to offer. Archimedes, Aristotle, Plato, Socrates and others have nothing to do with the inhabitants of a state called Greece today. And they know it. And they do not want to admit it of course.
They do have plenty to offer, are they not descandents of Archimedes, Socrates and Aristotle, hm? But they need to be done with Westernization first. Then you Germans ought to pay your due to them. After all, if you could pay the Jews, then I see no reason why you wouldn't pay everyone else you attacked, right? lol
I would recommend selling their islands to you Germans, and then nationalizing them! That would be a good leasson to you about "how much they still have to offer," now wouldn't it?!
"... are they not descandents of Archimedes, Socrates and Aristotle, ..."
No, they are not. Most of them are decendents of some Alis, Suleymans, Zoltans or Ötzgürs. Oh, and of of some Hanses, Jürgens and Fritzs if they are born in the 1940ies.
Most of you Germans are Slavs. Those true German tribes like Visigoths, who left for Iberian peninsula (Asturias was Visigothic state, they battled the Umayyad muslems for centuries; you can google it), Saxons who left for Britannia, then entire northern Italy is of ethnic German descendants from many Germanic tribes, have left historical Germanic lands a long time ago. Many Germanic tribes scattered throughout the territory of former Roman Empire after its fall in 5th century: part of them even went to north Africa and part of Middle East (today Turkey and Syria). Where do you think Assad got his blue eyes from, hm? It wasn't from Semites, those Arabs they are supposed to be, that's for sure. lol And who do you think went to inhabit their former lands, hm? Yes, Slavs. You are probably of Slavic origin yourself.
Anyhow, all Greeks have to do is to sell everything they own to Western corporations (best to you Germans so you would learn a lesson well :)) and then nationalize everything they sold! I reckon there are plenty of things eagerly awaiting to be nationalized right now. They need to add some more, and then nazionalize everything. All they borrowed was paper currencies after all, and as we all know borrowing paper which is not anchored in anything is a FRAUD! They would be serving justice by nationalizing everything those Western corps got by fraud! Comprendo?
True. What the stupid English speaking world calls "Germans" is a actually a mixture of German-Slavic-Celtic-Baltic people with a huge portion of Roman civilization. And that´s why we are not "the Germans" but Deutsch. And yes, i have German, Celtic and Slavic ancestors and i´m pretty proud of it. But for the most part you are wrong, "the Saxon" didn´t emigrate to England, just a small part, the rest is still sitting in northern Germany. We have a strong part of Slavic ancestors since we occupied much of Slavic lands after 900 AD and we will continue to do it.
The Greeks are just debt slaves, they are on the hook for the next century or longer. Greeks will not sell anything, nationalize anything, do anything without the consensus from Brussels. When there will be new generation of Greeks in 30 or 50 years who learned a thing or two from/in Germany, Greece will maybe be released again, till then they will obey orders.
Good for you. But Germans did not occupy anyone, only assimilated (well except those Saxons which they did I suppose; it wasn't their land after all). Those Slavs accepted Germanic culture and became Germans. Germanic culture was more advanced than Slavic at the time, just like Romanic was more advanced than Germanic and many Germans became northern Italians today. Germany and Germans weren't in position to occupy anyone much of the history. You know how much it took to beat the Wends (Slavic tribe) and assimilate them, hm? Over 5 centuries if I am not mistaken. And Wends were small tribe. As for the Greeks, all I can tell you they would be well advised to have a new start by nationalizing everything Westerners bought by FRAUD currencies which they could print at will and in any quantities! Nothing those Western banks apparently loaned them they HAD OWNED prior to loaning it out. Nothing! How could you loan something if you hadn't have it in the first place? You cannot. Only by fraud you can make it so. It was all done so by expanding currency supply, by printing paper which they said was as good as gold. Well, after 15th August 1971. it wasn't as good as gold as it wasn't convertable to gold... the real money... anymore. It's even worse for much of European countries, as they departed from gold standard even earalier. But generaly speaking -- for most of frauds (by sheer size) have been perpetrating after that infamous day in 1971 -- after that day, it was all fraud. When the time comes we Serbs will nationalize everything owned by Western corporations. What better way to have the Empire pay for its transgression of 1999 as well as meddling in the matters and having their dirty hands in the fall of former Yugoslavia, not to mention that all they apparently own was made so by FRAUD. :)
How very German of you.
If you cant murder them with weapons, kill them financially.
You'll never change.
Specifically, Jewish-German.
man you stole my rely before i could post it.
Archimedes was the 2nd best mathematician of all time, he comes only after the Ruler of Mathematicians -- Karl Friedrich Gauss. And, as we all know, mathematics is the field where most intelligent men dwell. Archimedes was one of the most intelligent men ever to live. It's stupid not to commemorate him! But Greeks are trying hard to Westernize themselves so they too put faces of hardcore criminals and mass murderers on currencies. Ah, that Westernization, just like Jewish god, has brought nothing but misery to us all.
p.s.
Aristotle has set foundations of most sciences today too. He is not to be forgotten too! :)
Newton is first, Archimedes second, Gauss third
Are you stoned? What have you been inhaling there? lol All Newton did was make some theory just like Einstein did. He was a fantastic mathemetician, no doubt about that, but nothing close to Gauss or even Archimedes. Look for what Gauss did even as a 7 year boy, the problems we was solving even at that age. 90% of populace today cannot solve the problems he was solving at 7!Gauss was a prodigy even at very early age, as well as by far and wide the most productive mathematician ever! Newton doesn't even come close to him! Only very ignorant person could compare Newton to Gauss. You can compare Newton to Euler, Descartes or Pascal, but not to Gauss. Gauss stands alone!
look, the only person stoned here is you...
Newton crushed Gauss and was more than a match for Archimedes...
for writing Philosophiae Naturalis Principia Mathematica alone, Newton should be number 1...
hell, he anticipated Einstein's mass-energy equivalence, amongst other accomplishments... there was arguably no better geometer in the world, either... not to mention the derivation of e^x = (summation) x^k / k!, acknowledged by any mathematician of note as being the most important series in mathematics...
Gauss fanboys can suck eggs, Newton stands above all... "I recognize the lion by his footprint"
You really are a dumb creture, aren't you? Lol Look, even if you go to your English Wikipedia, this is what you will find there: „Sometimes referred to as the Princeps mathematicorum (Latin, "the Prince of Mathematicians" or "the foremost of mathematicians" and "greatest mathematician since antiquity."). Now why do you think his fellow mathematicians would bestow such an enormous honour on him, hm? Mathematicians are not the kind that dwells in realm of men's vanity, you know. When they do so, it is because they recognize the incredible genius of Gauss, because they recognize that he is unique even amongst geniuses. It takes special kind of stupidity mixed with vanity not to recognize and undestand such a basic, simple truth. In realm of mathematics, there is none greater than Gauss. He was unique, a genius amongst geniuses as one might say. That is reality.
As for Newton's Principia Mathematica, yes it's a very important work and accoplishment, but not that more so than Euler's Opera Omnia for example. Euler was very productive mathematician; there are lot of books he authored. With that said, let me emphasize that is not my intention to belittle Newton's work in any shape or form, only to educate you not to compare pears and apples. Some men deserves to be held in high regard and reverence, and Gauss falls to be the foremost amongst such men. Newton also had a rust character, for he would steal from and cheat even his closest associates, if you must know. Gauss (Euler and Archimedes too) did not. That aspect also differentiates them. No Anglo will ever come close to a German of that age, you should know that too. Germans of that age were very disciplined and righteous, in thought like in their demeanour. Anglos were not... ever. But we are drifting off into some other subjects, so this would be a good place to end this discussion. Live long and prosper, hm! :)
they must be saving him for their 100 trillion drachmas note then.
Do you recognize Maria Callas in the blue note? The others may not be as recognizable outside Greece. I liked the old drachmas which had the Ancients on them. For aesthetic reasons alone, I would not have ditched them in favor or the euro (which makes me think of the expressoin "euro trash") :)
Yep, that's her. A blue note - that's fitting for her.
Troika. Nope, ain´t anymore. This is called "TIFKAT" now, the institution formerly known as Troika. C´mon, this the only goody they gave Tsipras on Friday so he could claim "victory".
CD- They haven't released that yet because they don't want to scare up a bank run any more than they already have. Its coming, rest assured.
The longer Greece allows a slow EU central banker bleed out the worse it will be once they do finally leave. Put a tourniquet on, cut off the gangrene and get on with it.
Someone already spent them all on a loaf of bread.
If you own silch you don't care about the 1'000'000.- bill, you care about potatoes.
Actually, Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton both speak fluent extortion.
Hey Liberal. Are you really MDB? nice post dude.
Dafuk you taking about? Thats Rev Wright on the 10k!
Beware Greeks taking gifts....
The first notes will be quickly replaced by notes with a extra zero once the drachma is replaced. It will devalue 60% in the first week.
If, they did have a black guy on a note, it would be a Nigerian guy selling knock off stuff on a blanket on the footpath up to the Acropolis.
A bit could make a better 'joke'
Truly pathetic.
Because color to us is of no importance, hence you will never find references to Socrates and the others skin color and secondly because most of great black Greeks are still alive and the people depicted on the bank notes are all dead.
Yep! The Dalai Lama got on the 50 though...
"I like the pretty blue one."
Interesting, I bet most would chose the same. Our perception of beauty is hard-wired into our DNA.
Sure! who doesnt like Celine Dion?
I told an ex-girlfriend once who had lost some weight that she looked like Celine Dion. It wasn't meant as a dig, boy was that a mistake.
Yeah, wired into the Y chromosome part...
There are certain characteristics, regarded as fair, such as the hourglass figure, which are actually more than a little bit predictive of fertility. It's better to be attracted to the fertile females, ya'know?
I was speaking to our perception of anything deemed beautiful. There's a definite mathematical balance and proportion that exists. Regarding the attractiveness of fertile females, let me tell you something, women are the most judgemental creatures the lord has ever created.
I saw you and raised you there, but this is all genetic for various reasons, like which landscapes are attractive (the ones that provide advantage for humans with forest, field, water and sun all present).
Why would women not be judgemental of their beauty and that of their genetic competitors? It is genetically important for survival to attract the mate most capable of support. Women DO have bigger orgasms with rich men, for instance.
"Creationist", then?
you ever examine the order of creation in genesis 1 and ignore the seven-solar day intrepetation as well as that chapter 2 was a retelling of chapter 1.... ignore both of these (which are not really supported by the text) and you can make the argument that the evolutionists are the plagarist here. all they did is keep the order and remove the original author... text book definition of plagarism
It is really difficult to interpret the meaning there, and cannot be taken at face value, as translated, I agree.
Just what are "waters above and waters beneath the firmament"? "God" is not a dude with a beard and a temper, though.
The serpent in the tale of Adam and Eve, with the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, is thought to represent a prior earth-goddess religion, which worshipped fertility, and was supplanted by the patriarchal religion, as happened across the world as agriculture became reliable enough to support kings and armies, who had to be obeyed.
The serpent told the truth, didn't he? Serpents were wise in the prior religion.
"Thou shalt NOT surely die, if you eat of the fruit."
Isn't Cline Dion the girl with the head of fruit who sings the cha cha cha songs? Or am I confusing her with Marie Harf?
Naw, I think thats Wasserman-Schultz with the head full of fruit or worms or bats or sumpin.
You're probably thinkin of Melissa Hairy-Pairy, she's the one with the tampon earrings ;-)
Now you've go me confused.
Who is the one who can't sing;)
Charo, once he did the sex change thingy he could never hit the low notes again...lol.
I never expected that to be a crowded trade.
Is there something in the water? I'll stick to booze just to be safe.
My girl laughed when I reminded her that she's had to wear a diaper ever since she was born. Nature's God and it's laws dude, we can't escape it.
Marie Harf is a fruit.
"Women DO have bigger orgasms with rich men, for instance."
I'm not sure about that, Dude. I've had my share of being a boy toy to unhappy wives married to rich DB's. Yes, it was wrong, I never said I was a saint. Sounds harsh, but physicalness trumps all, then comes power and lastly, intelligence.
Orgasm in women has NOTHING to do with rich. I'm sorry boys but you are are sadly deluded here.
Most guys are clueless how to give a woman a fantastic orgasm and few women will tell you how because if you knew, she would lose power and you would gain it.
Women, being vessels, can put on a show for you that can fool a man. Squeal and a few pelvic thrusts and you think she is really into you but in reality she's thinking of another guy she would rather be with. Men think when they penetrate a women with their cock, they have her. Nope, only the body. To penetrate the mind, heart and soul is a whole different level and few women will allow you to do this because they will lose power to you. This is our vulnerability.
Believe me I know this to be true and I have spoken to many women about it. But, due to space constraints I won't go into it here. ;-)
Miffed
OK, good job.
We'll buy the book;)
Shit,REALLY?
Damn it, I've told a few guys some female secrets and didn't charge them a penny! They just looked at me with big saucer eyes, thanked me profusely and skedaddled. Didn't even offer me a coffee. Forever a dumb blond microbiologist wage slave with no business acumen.
Miffed;-(
thats interesting--I thought only guys thought about some one else while they were screwing the wife/girlfriend---wonders never cease--
So you're saying I shouldn't be wasting my time with the clit anymore? ;-)
//////
Hold that thought, gotta get a drink...
Wow,
I think I better stay sober for this exchange. Team Girl will have my head on a spike if I'm not careful. Perhaps I should drive home from work first.
Clit should be done after the proper sequence of events. Most men go for that too soon thinking that's the money maker. No, no and no! We refer to this as the 24 hour rule. Poorly evolved women is more like 2 week rule and that is just a fringing pain in the ass to a guy.
A good analogy is hunting. Some hunters go to a private hunting range and pay to sit in a hide. When the deer shows up at the feed trough, he shoots her. He mounts the body on the car and shows off to his friends. Another Hunter studies his prey, her habits in the woods. Through great skill, he bags her. The last Hunter, the rarest of all, creates a condition where the doe walks out of the woods and stands before him. She willingly goes to him and is at his complete mercy. This women will have the most goddam fucking incredible orgasm that will put her in a hospital. And he will be damn pleased himself ;-)
Miffed;-)
So how do you convince that last doe that you're rich?
cough (fake rolex) snort, cough
That's the kicker. It doesn't matter if you are rich or poor. You could be living under a freeway ramp.
The appearance of wealth only attracts an insecure woman who wants someone to provide for her. She will gladly give her body because that is meaningless. As she fucks you wild and acrobatically, she is always several chess moves ahead in her mind, scoping out the next guy.
Most men fall into this trap. Trolling for fucks using a corvette. Sure, you can get them but so many guys complain to me that women are so vacuous and materialistic. Well, no shit Shirly. You are using bait for bottom feeders vs rainbow trout.
Miffed;-)
I'm in love with you. Wanna go down to the gas station for a burrito?
Sure! I'll pay ;-)
Miffed
I'll also buy the book on deer hunting.
Sorry bout that, I went for a drink and got drafted into peeling potatoes.
Now I need a smoke ;-)
too much work
Unfortunately there's much truth in that, Miffed. If I told you that I can give her an orgasm without penetrating her, you would understand.
You are absolutely right! A woman can be kissed to orgasm. I know this personally.
Miffed;-)
This comes from God, woman. It's who we are without the worldly BS that separates us. You know, wanting to control each other.
Well then thank the Lord! Truly I am blessed among women that I can receive his gifts and be so ever thankful. I wish I could teach others.
We are being torn apart in all ways. Economically, politically, environmentally and now even sexually. When has there ever been a time in history when men and woman have hated and misunderstood one another? And you think this is a coincidence?
Miffed
Orgasm first was always my modus operandi in the 1970s. You've heard of the '70s, I trust.
It's all true,
True love and dedication to one's destiny are better, though. Gave all that other stuff up completely by the '90s
I'd tell you not to give away our secrets, but they wouldn't listen to you anyways.
Here's the study about the bigger orgasms with rich guys, but upper body strength and humor are helpful, too.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25376054?dopt=Abstract
I had a dream a few years ago now. I was a roman being taken on a tour of my soon to be inheriited slave holdings., we we're on horse back. as we crested the hill, the manager of the state spoke proudly of the housing quaters. i saw a modern housing estate, with parcelld up houses, all packed into subi=ubrbia, with not enough land to grow on etc parcelled of into individual lots, no lager than 1/8th acre. ie modern>
I woke in a shocked sweat.
i still cry over the fact my forefathers were unable to resist the lunacy of susan b anthony....
Warning: imbecile creationist spotted.
sticking your fingers in your ears and calling names to those that say what you don't want to hear does not negate the validity of the point they make.... silly rabbit...
I think 'MIFFED' might be telling the truth. More than a handful of women I know really got turned on by Swirlies (I swear I'm not joking or exaggerating in the least way when I say that).
WOULD YOU LIKE TO KNOW MORE?
Edit to 18:18 above: ^^^ A woman can be swirlied to orgasm. I know this personally. (I'm not kidding peeps ~ & trust me it wasn't even my idea, I was following orders)... Expecting JUNKS here but facts are facts
Edit to 18:16 above: ^^^ "To penetrate the mind, heart and soul is a whole different level and few women will allow you to do this because they will lose power to you. This is our vulnerability. Believe me I know this to be true and I have spoken to many women about it"
Look , I'm not trying to make an enemy with you here, but you are speaking from a podium of 'one womans perspective' about lovey dovey emotions that you've happened to consult with other women about using 'lovey dovey' as a basis.
Some (perhaps many) are like yourself. But there are other 'TYPES' out there for sure. Any 'FAKING IT' that they do stems from pure boredom from non deviant sex (which, IMO, & based on witnessing, most haven't even scratched the surface as to how far they'd be willing to go, but something is gnawing at them for an opportunity to try).
You're speaking to the:
"I believe there ought to be a constitutional amendment outlawing Astroturf and the designated hitter. I believe in the sweet spot, soft-core pornography, opening your presents Christmas morning rather than Christmas Eve and I believe in long, slow, deep, soft, wet kisses that last three days."
fans
But there are others who want to have sex in hotel hallways &/or be tied up ON THE FIRST DATE.
& what's so special about that? Well ~ the relationship won't continue unless it gets more erotic than that. I'm not for or against anything. I'm just telling you what's out there that might be beyond your cute little girlfriend chatter.
& I'm stone cold serious when I say this. I don't even expect a reply because you'd be way out of your comfort zone on this so go ahead & feel free to retreat back to your 'FIFTY SHADES OF GREY' ville & try to coquettishly dangle the 'mystery' aspects of CONTROL, when, IN FACT, 'out of control' is the elisir.
Lovey dovey emotions!
Oh my God that is hysterical! Keep it up. You are so clueless it's entertaining.
This is NOTHING about emotions. This is energy. Powerful sexual energy between men and women.
Fifty shades of grey is an absolute fucking joke. Hollywood crap for the unenlightened. Comfort zone....really? You haven't come remotely close my dearest. Nice try but you appear to be not able to grasp some concepts. No offence and certainly this not meant to provoke enmity by any means.
Miffed
Miffed, me thinks you could (and should) write a best seller on this subect !!!
( high five) yeah baby! Let's show those on the bottom feeding rung how it's done! ;-)
Seriously, I wouldn't mind a collaboration with a worthy talented guy. We could be sitting on a gold mine!
Miffed;-)
Miffed
I have no doubt that you speak sincerely from your own personal experience.
What I DEFINITELY have no doubt about are my personal experiences [bordering on what most would deem 'BIZZARE', &, to a large extent, were not manifestations of my own imagination, but INSTEAD, things that I was coaxed into to fulfill the fantasies of my partner].
I don't presume to come close to knowing the level of ecstasy that was or was not fulfilled. I'm just saying that NOBODY [even yourself] is qualified to make wholescale judgements on that... So go ahead & high five Hulk all you want about your exquisite knowledge...
FFS, I'll give you an example [& this wasn't even the most deviant]...
In another thread, I talked about how I'd lived in Europe for more than a decade... Well ~ during the last 3-4 years I lived there, I found myself spending 3-4 months out of the year in the US... Bored as I was, I decided to go on MATCH.COM to find 'dates' for my time in the US [I'll not burden you with stories about the troia in Europe]... I doubt anyone could wholescale call MATCH a 'sexual deviant' site...
Let's just focus on one, for now... She was a yoga instructor [ethnic identity withheld]... Incredible body... about 100 lbs [not that that's a 'type' for me]... We e-mailed back & forth for about a month before the Christmas/Hannukah holiday while I was still in Europe... The e-mails got more & more erotic... By the end, we were gonna meet, but the 'push-shove' got to the point that I insisted that on the first date, she meet me naked at the door [which, to my surprise, she obliged to]... So we finally meet... FOR THE FIRST TIME... at her house... On Christmas Eve... She's buck naked [as promised], I have a bottle of champagne... We spend about a half hour breathing a little & drinking the champagne, then hit the bed... In the process, she starts telling me about her fantasies about the "STORY of O" [& bondage & submission fantasies], and about that's the only thing that can get her off, & that, while what we've done so far has been extraordinary, that's only scratching the surface...
I swear ~ I couldn't keep up with the depths of the fantasies she wanted to go to...
OK ~ So that's a 'one off'?.................. No!
The whole experience got me so wired into the mindset that for about the next dozen FIRST DATES I went on I pushed those same boundaries [just to see if it was weird or not]... Turns out it appears to be quite common... I'm talking 100% success rate [which I don't equate to as CONQUEST as much as I equate it as WTF?]...
That's the world out there... Anyone who doesn't know it hasn't really tried... & to be sure, NONE of it, in my life, was any idea that I forced upon anybody else...
So that's my world... Yours is yours... I REPEAT... 'OUT OF CONTROL' is the elisir [if getting kissed in the right way, to you, brings you to that state then so be it ~ Then again, there are OTHERS who get that state by getting fucked by a relative stranger in a hotel hallway on the first date then begging to go further on the 2nd date]...
So go ahead & write your book with HULK... Try your best to IDENTIFY your audience if you expect to make any sales...
My dear thirst,
Please understand me. You are not remotely close to what I am speaking. Fuck fantasies are just that, fuck fantasies. If this is your experience and what you wish, what's the problem? Be satisfied and enjoy! But the story of O.... Oh dear how cliche and just sadly pathetic. You don't describe the interaction as a good memory. It seems like you were being used as a toy, not appreciated as a man. BIG difference. A man should be celebrated as a man in the bedroom and this doesn't mean gymnastics or playing out fuck fantasies is a requirement.
Bizarre kinky sex is show. It skims the surface. No depth means a drink without quenching thirst. It leaves one empty and unsatisfied and the quest for more resumes. Like a drink of sea water.
What I am describing is beyond a fantasy but there is nothing wrong with fantasy in itself. Used well it can heighten experience. However, having a great desire to give your partner the best experience of their lives every time you have sex with them is far more important. I am fortunate I am with such a man. Sometimes it is all about me and he sets a marvelous stage to pleasure me and I practically convulse in joy. Other days it's his turn and every desire is given freely. We experiment to what we like and not like and are honest with each other. This has caused respect and honor to grow strong between us. Really, without judgement and worries about meeting others expectations can make sex just damn fun. And, outside the bedroom, life is pretty good too when the same conditions apply.
I am not saying everyone should be like me. Far from it. We all have our different wants and needs but I have talked with many women about sex and what we share among ourselves is not what we share with men. Of course I am speaking of my own experience. How can I do otherwise? You speak of your experience and I accept this as truth and I respect your point of view. But please believe me, some of us do more than have " lets see how I can preform kinky bizarre fuck fantasies to impress my first date how evolved sexually I am" experiences.
Miffed;-)
Fuck fantasies were never even part of my fantasy vocabulary until they were hoisted upon me. After that ~ I'll admit, I started expanding boundaries I never b4 knew existed. In all honesty, I can't say that I 'WISH' them...
It's a blessing & a curse...
I think I recall a thread here the other day that discussed the hypothesis of 'ABSOLUTE EMPIRICAL POWER'... I don't remember the protagonists thereof [but I think you were one of the parties involved ~ & I vaguely recall that that the other protagonist admitted that the 'RESISTANCE TO ABSOLUTE DEBAUCHERY' period might not last more than 2 year time period ~ which I thought was a noble admonition]...
Anyway... You say that "Bizarre kinky sex is show. It skims the surface"...
1. How can I possibly agree or disagree with that?
2. How can YOU unequivocally state that OTHERS agree or disagree with that?
You're plastering your own opinions on other peoples lives & fantasies.
Furthermore ~ You're applying a 'PERIODICITY' to the equation that doesn't often exist in the natural world...
Don't do that... [MEH ~ Do whatever you want, but I'll presume to guarantee you that your conscript numbers won't add up to what you presume them to be]... & at least I won't be UNORIGINAL...
Good Luck!
PS ~ I'm a FAN of yours, [not an enemy]
OUT.OF.CONTROL.
That's all u need to know [the effect being when BOTH parties feel that same OOC-ness at the same time]. There's no way, for EITHER party to be able to pre-determine or synthesize that feeling. INSTEAD ~ it just happens.
It would seem to me that you have a pretty decent imagination that covers most of that territory, so consider yourself lucky. The rest of us poor slobs, I guess, are sadly relegated to fucking in elevators to reach your levels of the ecstacy you seem blessed to experience by divine Providence, &, of course, plan 'MANIFESTOS' about to sell to the blithering idiots abroad as a way to improve their miserable lives.
& naturally [This should go without saying], I'm 100% POSITIVE that your 'hubby', is so 100% deeply enthralled with your 'MYSTERY' & 'ALLURE', that he has ZERO porn sites... EVER... cached on his internet browsing history... Which means to say... Are you a follower or a leader?
Sayonara Miffed!
And I always have been a fan of yours as I have stated before.;-)
Conscription implies compulsion. Of this I have no part. I present myself. If accepted I remain. If denied, I examine and readjust to new information. I am not here to lecture on dogma, just my personal discoveries. Why should I hold on in a vague hope I have found an anchor of absolutes? This is limiting when life should be expansive; and endless sea of exploration.
If bizarre kinky sex is used as a tool to impress another then sex is not pure in itself. It has an ulterior motive, a manipulation. That motive itself is immaterial but it's existence blocks sexual depth. Women often believe they must be sexually adventurous and aggressive today to be on par with men. They falsely think he will be impressed and stay. But women are fungible aren't they? There is always someone new to explore and no amount of theatrics will hold anyone as you seem to be showing me in your experiences.
I have obviously touched something in you. You seem affronted in some way when I meant no offense, of this I will ask for your forgiveness. Honestly, I am just sharing my attempt to bring a physical act to an incredible spiritual plane and I have spent years and sought advice from many how to get there. Yes, I'm still a work in progress.
To be a fan of yours is truly an honor and I am humbled beyond belief. Your opinion and prospective is always welcome.
Miffed
Ha! Saw your edit!
I am not sure if Mr has a cache of porn sites. I never thought to ask actually. What business is that of mine? He did hang some naked photos and drawings of me in his office and was told they had to be removed immediately because the women of the company were highly irritated about them.
I always wondered why the men I met at his company parties looked at me so strangely and intensely.
Miffed;-)
"I am not here to lecture on dogma, just my personal discoveries"
Quite... I don't consider this a LECTURE... I consider it a DISCOVERY... So far ~ I've only done the same... [I think]
"If bizarre kinky sex is used as a tool to impress another then sex is not pure in itself."
That's an assumption that is based upon a multitide of variables... 'ULTERIOR MOTIVES', IMO, are part & parcel, of sexual 'FANTASY'... & therefore should not be divorced, sight unseen... I challenge that they, on the contrary, are a worthy substitute for the 'DEPTH' you posit [within certain &/or exceptional minds that you have not had the experience to probe]...
"But women are fungible aren't they?"
Yes they ARE... Men are too... In any case ~ THAT's my point... Moreso [in my wild experience], than you can possibly imagine... You & I could talk about this all night & NEVER reach a resolution... The 'MAGIC' exists [not via the INTERNET], but when ACTUAL PHYSICAL entities meet [both of which are 'fungible'], and fall into the state, not by predetermination, of being OUT.OF.CONTROL.
"You seem affronted in some way"
I'm not affronted in any way... ALL of the stories I described before are true... I still consider them EROTIC [not mistakes]... For reference, my former partners [some of whom are now married & have moved on to those realms] still contact me now from time to time [for thoughts which are too personal to share]... It is THIS which tells me that there are DEPTHS that nobody understands...
My experiences are my own [although I've shared them here]... Yours are your own... I'm not trying to argue with you as much as I'm trying to add perspective to the argument...
I've never been married... So it's likely that your perspective differs from mine... But that doesn't mean that my relations are, or ever were, INVALID...
Edit: "I am not sure if Mr has a cache of porn sites. I never thought to ask actually. What business is that of mine?"
It should be your business... Hear me out on this... While I was living in Europe [as I'd indicated above], there was time when I flew my GF over to visit me a couple of times [to, you know, see Florence, Rome, Venice, etc. & to go shopping at the Versace, D&G, & Prada outlets]... In any way ~ she just HAD to get on my computer, of which I'm not a PRO, but not an idiot either... I had some "x" sites cached there [which were CURRENCY EXCHANGE, Euro to Dollar, sites]... I noticed the LOG-INS to those sites on my cache [which, of course, I confronted her about on the premise that she was spying on me]...
Fuck all the rest... In the end it just turned into a laugh fest between us... Actually ~ I think it worked out IN MY FAVOR because she was so embarrassed that she was caught SPYING on me that she wanted to REPAY by being more of a sexual slave...
That's how it goes [I guess]... If NOT ~ then keep your own experiences to yourself [but don't PRESUME to tell me what mine have been]... It's ALL been consentual & all in good fun [based on the mindsets of the parties involved, which, actually, blow like the wind over time]...
& if you think your HUBSTER has ZERO porn sites cached on his computer... Then, my dear, you're living in the sort of LA LA LAND that would instantly liquidate all your previous arguments about sexual fulfillment...
"Ulterior motives are part and parcel of sexual fantasy"
I will have to disagree here only because I have not experienced this. What you describe is control. A guiding of events. This may be true at the start. Let say for example we decide to play out a fantasy I am a chick at a bar and you come to the bar and pick me up ( I have done this before). The original framework is implemented but the scenario can go haywire and end in a completely different place because of random elements inherent in real time. The experience can be the wildest ride of your life or you may spend the evening in the back of a police car ( been there too)
A fantasy starts in anticipating a sexual experience but if that experience is defined too rigidly then the experience could be diminished. Mating in captivity is always dangerous to becoming routine. Edginess is necessary for sparks to fly. A willingness to explore and push boundaries but honoring the needs of your partner. Being with the same man for 30 years has challenged me to keep things fresh and alive. This can be difficult in a marriage and yes there are periods when children are born and drudgery starts to take over, the possibility of becoming lost is great. This is less likely with a single guy who will always find a new woman to renew himself.
Our bodies are designed for pleasure and there are a multitude of ways to experience this. I have known men that have confessed to me they fucked hundreds of women and felt a deep void of loneliness they could not satiate. How they lamented if they only found " The One". Yet their experiences with these women did seem pleasurable. So maybe some are content with just sexual encounters alone and others want sexual encounters with more of a communion of spirit. Reaching for something beyond the mating of bodies. A joining of souls if you will. This does not imply what you say as being invalid. Eroticism can be part of all of this but, for me, I would have personal trouble having a fulfilling sexual experience just banging a stranger in a hallway. I'm sure for some the anonymity would be highly satisfying but, for me, having tasted sexual orgasms that resemble a samadhi with a partner that helped me get there, I just can't believe it could be as good. But, yes, I do have limited experience in such matters.
Of course we can come to no resolution. Why should we? Sharing of perspectives and experiences is the beauty here, not judgment!
I could really care less what my husband has on his computer. Why do you think I should care?nReally you seem so insecure. I don't give a damn! I've never looked and never will. I don't bother with such pettiness. You reallly seem far less evolved than I thought. What are you so afraid of?
Miffed
Since we’re telling gender secrets, or perhaps just diddling each other for fun, allow me to make sweeping generalizations and speak for all the Y chromosomes out there.
You know that guy snoring on the pillow next to you? The one hopelessly devoted to you, the one who lives and dies on your every breath? Well, after shtupping you the first few times, every one since has required images of someone---anyone---but you. Sure, he’ll sweet talk you and tell you otherwise, but he’s lying. Guaranteed. It’s a white lie, though, because he doesn’t want to hurt your feelings, partly because he cares for you and partly because you’re any port in a storm. You're convenient, like a pizza delivery service or a microwave meal. And with the lights off or his eyes closed, he can’t tell the difference between the Four Seasons and a Motel 6. He may well be a breast man, and you might have a rack better than anything Michelangelo could have chiseled out of white Italian marble, but it’ll be someone else’ pair he’s got on his mind after he’s dallied a few times with yours. Every male who ever had a woody knows this. The good news is he may well love you, in fact, he probably does. Take some solace in that. But he’s a male. He is driven by millions of years of biology. He is driven to spread his seed far and wide, because the absolute only reason he exists is to propagate his gene pool. The purpose of life is more life, and damn if he isn’t going to do his job and fulfill his evolutionary role.
Women hold their babies and think the little drooling, burping, farting and wailing piece of meat is something wondrous, while anyone---well, any male---without skin in that game just sees a future cashier at an Interstate 7-11 in Keokuk, Iowa. In other words, what the woman cherishes above all else is nothing special to those not driven by instinct and biology. Would you get all goo gooey if your hubby pulled that same drooling-farting shtick? Hardly. You get goo gooey because your biology drives you to get that way and fools you into thinking there is something special and unique in a little blob of which there have been one hundred billion since Oldavai Gorge. Rare they ain’t, but the illusion/delusion that they are is what allows you to smile when the little blob pukes on your shirt or squirts green or brown liquid all over you.
Society, at least female society, champions the Madonna and Child. Men play along, but really don’t care all that much. Aware males know that Madonna thing is just instinct, driven by the realities of biology that limit the number of propagated gene pools a female can squeeze out. Women are driven to cherish their limited production, because if they lose one, churning out another takes a lot of work and puts stress on the body.
The exact equivalent drive in the male is spreading the seed. The Lech, the Leering Horn Dog, the Serial Shtupper are just the male doing his Madonna and Child thing. It’s hypocritical that society tends to champion one instinct and lambast the other, when both the Double X and the Y The Hell Not are just doing what comes naturally.
We make sex a game, and in a sense it is. We write songs and poems about it, paint or hammer out museum pieces devoted to it, and do whatever we can to make it more than what it is: simple continuation of the species. That reality doesn’t detract from its enjoyment, because without that enjoyment we wouldn’t do it. We'd get that G. B. Shaw kind of embarrassment at the very idea of it. We willingly fool ourselves into believing it’s love. Life is all about pretending it’s something more than it is, so why should sex be any different? It---or rather both life and sex---are still a kick.
Was that good for you?
End of tongue-in-cheekiness.
Haha!
And if this is true what is this to me? Every morning caresses me and kisses me. Brings me coffee while I'm showering and we talk before I leave to work. When I return, he grabs me in a bear hug as I exit my car and kisses me again. We make dinner together and talk about our days. Maybe we flirt a bit and have a wild evening, maybe have a hike and curl up in bed together reading books. It varies. We are great lovers and friends and if he's jerking off to the playmate of the month all day....really tell me why do I care? He's quite a specimen to do so considering he has sex at age 54, 3-6 times a week by his own choice.
I admit I'm no expert in male sexuality but the one I have doesnt seem to have any complaints and his fascination with female sexuality makes my life in bed just wonderful. Maybe we just have something unique and special. But it is true the female with child is a great detraction from sex and destroys our bodies. 10 years of blah sex before I was back in good shape and in good performance. Certainly best to pop a couple out early if you want them, fix yourself and enjoy the rest of your life pregger worry free
IMHO. Believe me, not all females laud the Madonna and child. This is a societal image, propaganda. Many of us have no part of this. We are care givers by nature but if unbalanced, unattractive to men who cannot have that same bond.
Perhaps some of us just want to rise up and find more meaning beyond our natures. This doesn't mean my husband won't get an erection when in the presence of a woman he finds attractive or I won't find myself giddy in the presence of a man that rocks me to the core. This does happen to us. however, we just laugh at our natures and honor our marriage because it means so much more to us that a quick bang in a Parking lot. All else is silly romance novels.
Miffed;-)
I only logged in to state the obvious, we are all different, some girls like it greek, some don't. We will soon see if Greek girls like the drachma, or the euro. Or the shiny stuff, or the TP or the splash splash, sheehs.
I can confirm that many women have absolutely no idea just how different women are. The more... divergent?... ones rarely talk about it with their fellow females because they know it'll get them funny looks.. and a bad reputation.
A fair number of women detest giving blow jobs. Even more regard it as unsavoury, required to keep their man happy or as a quid pro quo for getting head in return. But there are also women who absolutely love it, who gleefully swallow. And you know they're not faking it because they're sopping wet when they've finished. But they know if they mention this to 'the girls' they either won't be believed or - get this! - they'll think she's a slut!
And at the other extreme, there are the cumguzzlers; women who fantasise about (and arrange) to lie spread-eagled and open-mouthed while teams of men squirt them with the absolute favorite thing...
It's a wild world out there. Female sexuality is a many-hued beast.
I thought she was Anne Bancroft on the 100
Agreed, either Anne Bancroft or Cruella Deville...either way, a dogs fixing to get fucked here...
Me. I don't like Celine Dion. But good joke though.
How about Nana Mouskouri?
[but definitely not YANNI]
Give them 4 months this what will happen http://goo.gl/IwkzyL
More to the point, what will it be worth?
1 drachma
"More to the point, what will it be worth?"
Charmin