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Greek Infighting Begins After Historic Syriza Member Slams Agreement, Apologizes For "Contributing To Illusion" Of Change
As the divergence between Syriza's leadership perspective on debt talks - "success...won the battle" - and the Greek voters - "It looks to me that nothing has changed" - grows ever wider, and on the heels of apparent near mutiny last week, there is growing division in the ranks of the newly elected party. Syriza MEP Manolis Glezos penned a stunning rebuke of the party's apparent U-turn and asks his electorate for forgiveness... "there can be no compromise between oppressor and oppressed... Pity, and pity again... I apologize to the Greek people because I have contributed to this illusion... before it is too late, let us react!"
In an article uploaded on the website of his Movement for Active Citizens, Keep Talking Greece notes Manolis Glezos - the historic member of the Greek left (best known for his participation in the World War II resistance) - expresses his deep disappointment about the way Syriza handles with the negotiations and calls for party members to decide if they accept this situation.
Via Manolis Glezos' Movement for Active Citizens website (via Google Translate):
“Renaming the Troika into Institutions, the Memorandum of Understanding into Agreement and the lenders into partners, you do not change the previous situations as in the case renaming meat into fish.
Of course, you cannot change the vote of the Greek people at the elections of January 25, 2015.
The people voted in favor of what SYRIZA promised: to remove the austerity which is not the only strategy of the oligarchic Germany and the other EU countries, but also the strategy of the Greek oligarchy.
To remove the Memoranda and the Troika, abolish all laws of austerity.
The next day after the elections, we abolish per law the Troika and its consequences.
Now a month has passed and the promises have not turned into practice.
Pity. and pity, again.
On my part, I APOLOGIZE to the Greek people because I have contributed to this illusion.”
He then goes on to call for action...
Before it is too late, let us react.
Syriza members, friends and supporters at all levels of organizations should decide in extraordinary meetings whether they accept this situation.
Some argue that to reach an agreement, you have to retreat. First: there can be no compromise between oppressor and oppressed. Between the slave and the occupier is the only solution is Freedom.
But even if we accept this absurdity, the concessions already made by the previous pro-austerity governments in terms of unemployment, austerity, poverty, suicides have gone beyond the limits.
As KeepTalkingGreece reports, to Glezos’ sharp criticism, Syriza reacted rather cool and with respect to the senior veteran.
Government sources commented that “most probably Glezos is not well informed about the tough negotiations.”
However, the article triggered a vivid exchange of ‘verbal attacks’ on internet with opposition parties supporters -mainly pro-austerity – to mock Syriza ‘that even Glezos admitted you named the meat fish”.
Somewhere the leaders of the last Greek party that promises "change", the neo-fascist Golden Dawn, are grinning.
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blood from a turnip mean anything to anyone?
Civil war, bitches. Useless Greeks fighting other useless Greeks. Told´ya there is not a single grown-up in that country. 10 millions Greeks need a Nanny telling them to go to bed without dinner if they don´t behave. Gosh, why is it that those babies are in my European Union.
Fuck your European Union.
Being chained to krauts is fucking horrendous.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZeYVIWz99I
Mr. Glezos, all you need to do is refuse to support the bill. Get 3 or 4 of you together, and prevent it from going anywhere. As soon as ND and Syriza are voting together for more Austeriy, then hopefully all hell in Greece will break loose.
Fuck the EU and the EMZ.
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
No one wants blood from the turnip, they want to control the turnips and the beets, so much more satisfying than squeezing them and letting go. A BOOT ON A HUMAN FACE FOREVER is the goal.. Train my compadres for the fun comes ashore shortly..
Great read: I know I've been pushing it alot but when I find something informative I try to get it out here. Did the same thing with Chris Martenson's stuff.
http://debtcrash.blogspot.com/2015/02/history-and-introduction.html
It's been a ~MONTH and everything hasn't competely changed yet, what gives????
The whole place is a madhouse..
Re: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
except we *do* get fooled again
Victoria, is that you?
Because you EU dunskies loaned them 350 billion euros when nobody else in the entire world was stupid enough to do so.
Good point, except what they "lent" really didn't exist at all, it conjured up out of thin air as the next "loan" will be. Just like we do in the states!
Yes, Jonesy!
That is the most important point regarding pretty well everything about the global political economy!
Superbly put Jonesy...
Moreover, "lent" who exactly? I'm sure the homeless in the streets, or the parents who had to put their kids into orphanges, or indeed, the young - you know - the ones that are barely at voting age - didn't borrow a cent, but are told to pay up.
Newsflash! there's nothing to pay - the money entered a BANK, and then was transferred to... another BANK.
I feel embarrassed sometimes when I see posters on ZH showing no class, and outright lack empathy. This is Zero Hedge, not CNBC / FOX / CNN and the rest of the scummy outlets!
Zero Hedge/ABC Media..
Since the loan was freely printed money it cost nothing. The EU bankers wanted to pocket the interest.
Your European Union? Are you Helmut Kohl?
Anyway, going to bed without dinner is exactly what is happening to many in Greece. 25% of school children go hungry to school, many of them fainting in class. Do you get joy out of that?
So Greece is a society that cannot take care of their own children without other peoples money. Yeah, you´re right, that´s disgusting.
Perhaps the world should have said that to Germany in 1953 instead of scrapping their debt. But the world realised that indebting countries will lead to turmoil in which a guy with a funny moustache and henchmen with brown shirts can rise. Germany has not learned from its past. Germany all the time saying that is does not want to rule Europe is just a lot of bullshit.
Civil war? That's not what I would call it. But if it is a civil war, I think we can all agree that at least one of the sides needs American advisors and weapons.
I have to agree with Wolferl.
At what point can a society or people can't afford their sovereignty?
If they or their people can't produce, but it s constantly borrowing, isn't this a form of Sovereign Darwinism.
Maybe the Greeks should just ephemeralize?
What about: get up in the morning and produce something useful? I mean, c`mon, 60% youth unemployment, are kidding me, what are all these guys doing since 5 years? You´re in your twenties on the peak of your abilities and you can´t get a job or you have no idea what to do? Those whining "i have have two masters in whatever and no one will give me a job" idiots are just a joke. It´s not my business what the Greeks are doing and frankly, i don´t care.
The next iteration will be an even more radical government - you can't oppress broke people - they have nothing to lose.
Going to get sticky by summer.
"you can't oppress broke people"?.... no sociopath believes that, and sociopaths run the world. The next step is full on police state to control the angry masses. It's going to get much worse. The sociopathic bankers and oligarchs will use EVERY tool to expand their power and keep the serfs in control.
Luckely they have nice weather.
Yep Imp as Celente says, when you've lost everything and you have nothing left to lose, you lose it.
or Soros funds it
not seen much serious "lose it" yet, meme continues
The only people you CAN oppress are broke people. An empty bag can't stand upright. A free man with money in the bank can stand up to anything.
until he tries to withdraw it
"A free man with money in the bank can stand up to anything."
Fewer and fewer of those kinds of people everyday.
Money not in a bank may be a big difference down the line as banks are proving willing accomplices, if not outright partners or architects, in the current environment of moving all possible wealth upward into fewer and fewer hands.
"The only people you CAN oppress are broke people. An empty bag can't stand upright. A free man with money in the bank can stand up to anything."
I beg to differ. A man with nothing to lose is a very dangerous man.
Sociopath or psychopath?
I'm not a shrink so I don't know but I do have a joke.
Two psychologists meet on the street by chance.
The first psychologist says to the other, "Hello Jonathan. You're fine. How am I?"
Jonathon replies: How do you want me to be?
Can I have my peace prize now?
It all makes total sense.
"Even more radical"??
Syriza is pretty hard-core Marxist already, as shown by their manifesto here.
http://www.marxist.com/greece-no-more-retreats-the-government-must-go-on...
Why would Greek communism work given it failed so miserably in places such as Russia, China, Yugoslavia and Cuba?
I realize that Marx must be hated and and given no positive comments whatsoever among the Zeroes here, but he was right about Capitalism in many ways. It essentially has turned into an oligarchic monopoly pretty much everywhere on the globe these days.
For everyone here who will tell me all about how this isn't real Capitalism, I know that I can find a Marxist who will tell you all of the examples you mentioned aren't real Marxism either. I've concluded that both ideologies are obsolete, but I also realize that ideologues and fanatics have a very hard time letting go of obsolete ideas. Hence the reason nothing worthwhile will come from inescapable collapse until things are much more dire. JMHO.
For Sale: Nice Islands. Hardly used.
BINGO! That's been the 'Goldman-ites' plan all along. (close sail to the motherland & all for the dual "c" crowd, which, happens NOT to be much of a 'crowd' at all, but instead, a small club that you ain't in)
Greeks should default then sell the islands to the bankers then turn around and nationalize them. Double fucking of the banksters would be wonderful
Ever notice how many countries go broke when they host the olympics?
http://www.bloomberg.com/bw/articles/2012-08-02/how-the-2004-olympics-tr...
As they watch the London Olympics, many Greeks may wonder how their country went from the international glory of the Athens Games in 2004 to the recriminations of today’s crisis. Hosting the event cost almost €9 billion ($11 billion at today’s exchange rate), making the 2004 Games the most expensive ever at that point. Greek taxpayers were on the hook for €7 billion, which did not include the cost of extra projects such as a new airport and metro system.
Within days of the closing ceremony, Greece warned the euro area that its public debt and deficit figures would be worse than expected. The 2004 deficit came in at 6.1 percent of gross domestic product, more than double the euro-zone limit, while debt reached 110.6 percent of gross domestic product, the highest in the European Union. (Today, Greece’s debt is 165.3 percent of GDP.) Greece became the first EU country to be placed under fiscal monitoring by the European Commission, in 2005.
With public debt totaling €168 billion in 2004, it’s clear that the Olympics alone did not bring about an economic collapse. Yet the Athens Games epitomized the structural problems that bedeviled the country for decades. It’s not just a question of how much money was spent on the Olympics, it’s also how it was spent and where it came from. After a period of austerity to tighten up its finances and qualify for euro entry in 2001, the Greek government loosened the purse strings once it entered the single currency. The games were just one of several areas where public spending was unchecked and funded by unsustainable borrowing.
I have a sneaking suspicion the Olympics was given to Greece to completely fuck up their economy and leave them open to privatisation and complete takeover by the EU.
Well, after all, the 2012 London Olympic Games were dedicated to ZION & The New Jerusalem
Worship the 'all seeing EYE' bitchez!
He who PRINTS THEMSELVES the biggest & deadliest toys out of thin air, (whilst 'gutterizing' the sheep with nigger class entertainment like DWTS)... WINS!
Spot on ..
That's a GREAT Idea!
Just one thing: Please be sure to stop "our" governments from starting a war in order to grab resources / land / assets on behalf of the banksters.
You see that's what happens, we've seen it the world over. The Latin Bloc (Brazil, Argentina, Chile for example), Iran & Iraq, Algeria (France were just great!) and so on.
We need to work together to inform our citizens - our life blood - that they shouldn't listen to the MSM's beating of the war drums. Bankers' Wars - the lot of them.
And ketchup is a vegetable.
I still hope they'll change that U-turn into a full O-turn, right in the banksters' FACES
It doesn't matter they cannot repay the debt or make payments. They will default. Shades of Spain .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ygqgyw4bogNice catch, Rusty. More proof that this is all theater.
She is just a fat lazy bitch, that rides the politicial movement at that time to keep living the good easy life of a good for nothing politician.
Drown your sorrows in Ouzo suckers.
Shit the Greeks were taking out 1 billion Euros a day from their banks. What did they expect Tsipras to do?
As far as I am concerned the people voted with their cash they want to stay in the Euro and the ONLY way to stay is bow to Frau Merkel.
Tsipras has to show if he is a leader or just an other opportunist.
Its only logical that during a transition from Euro to drachmas it is in the best interest of the Greek people to hold some cash before capital controls go into place and prevent them from withdrawing money.
They will need some cash to covert to Drachmas in the after-math in order to keep basic commerce running . . . this is common sense.
Withdrawing euros is not a vote to stay in the Euro... its just posturing for the inevitable.
Needless to say, if this government losses confidence, the next government will be an extremist one... because when you leave people no choices, they choose the self-destruct nazi party just to get some kind of ball rolling.
Well put.
Modeling after the US.
What have oligarchs and the banksters to do with people's private money?
Is there any obligation to keep the money in the bank?
In a case of oncertanity this is the first thing to save th emoney.....
Shit the Greeks were taking out 1 billion Euros a day from their banks. What did they expect Tsipras to do?
THIS:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPkJH6BT7dM
Too much to ask I know, but if people can turn out to vote together, then they can work TOGETHER to stop their own nation from falling to pieces.
My best offer is $100 bucks for the Parthenon. It has to be delivered but I'll pay cash.
You mean whats left of it? hitler probably used half the columns for his private summer home.
IMHO: The Parthenon is too big. The The Porch of the Caryatids (six maidens as columns) part of the Erechtheion on the Acropolis would be better. I just wish someone would fix their arms and other missing parts.
Nonsense. They already moved London Bridge to Lake Havasu in Arizona. The Parthenon should be a piece of cake.
They already moved it to Nashville (aka Athens) Tennessee
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cq80kyOcV30
I was gonna stick it in Arizona next to London Bridge. Good start for a Euro theme park. I figure if we could get the Eiffel Tower and the leaning Tower of Pisa. Bingo! Ka-Ching!
Sorry. All ancient Greeks monuments are As Is, Where Is.
Is this part of the game? theory? i.e. to reinforce the support at home to Grexit? More questions than answers. Yet, four months is not a long time to prepare a country for trouble.
If (big IF)
if this is Tsipras "game"
(to curry support by finagling a few more Euros from the EU)
then his move is
too clever by half
for either his own good, or for Greece's
Are those our terrorists?
Are those our Nazis?
Hmm...
New World Order Map (published 1942)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPsx3C6Omzo+1 Pretty damn close Rusty! (but don't forget that Lex Luthor was promised 'Australia' from ZOD)
Yup, complete with "Hebrewland" and the fact that Hitler lived out his life in Argentina.
Heres how the markets see it by Friday Dow 19,000 S&p 2200 nasdaq5100 and oil 40$ Pm gulp bye bye. Untill the Ww starts they will print and hide the truth.
Thanks for the news flash from 2013. Now go jerk off to your dreams of QE4.
"There's many a slip between cup and lip."
NWO is hanging by a thread.
The Third World War must be fomented by taking advantage of the differences caused by the "agentur" of the "Illuminati" between the political Zionists and the leaders of Islamic World. The war must be conducted in such a way that Islam (the Moslem Arabic World) and political Zionism (the State of Israel) mutually destroy each other. Meanwhile the other nations, once more divided on this issue will be constrained to fight to the point of complete physical, moral, spiritual and economical exhaustion…We shall unleash the Nihilists and the atheists, and we shall provoke a formidable social cataclysm which in all its horror will show clearly to the nations the effect of absolute atheism, origin of savagery and of the most bloody turmoil. Then everywhere, the citizens, obliged to defend themselves against the world minority of revolutionaries, will exterminate those destroyers of civilization, and the multitude, disillusioned with Christianity, whose deistic spirits will from that moment be without compass or direction, anxious for an ideal, but without knowing where to render its adoration, will receive the true light through the universal manifestation of the pure doctrine of Lucifer, brought finally out in the public view. This manifestation will result from the general reactionary movement which will follow the destruction of Christianity and atheism, both conquered and exterminated at the same time."
Let's not forget this
Bouquet of flowers for Islam for america Britain Israel
http://vigilantcitizen.productionshardl.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/upload...
Whole world around a flower. Kinda similar to this pic
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/cb/InitiationIntoHermetics.jpg
http://www.horsenation.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/denver-airport-hor...
Apacolypse horse
And real events
http://www.cnn.com/videos/tv/2015/02/19/gk-graeme-wood-on-isis.cnn
Graeme Wood: ISIS believes Jesus will come to their aidhttp://revolution-news.com/new-nypd-vests-crusader-emblem-will-cost-7-3-...
New NYPD vests with ‘Crusader’ emblem will cost 7.3 million
http://nationalreport.net/pope-francis-followers-koran-holy-bible/
Pope Francis To Followers: “Koran And Holy Bible Are The Samehttps://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jINeffTjcgY
DOD VIRUS 'FUNVAX' Vaccine for RELIGIOUS Peoples!!!!!!!https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HNg7iO3db7k
U S Military Use Weather As A Weapon WorldwideGet rid of the Illuminati and soon these events won't happen again.
From the dawn of Hall’s career in the early 1920s until his death in 1990, the Los Angeles teacher wrote about America’s “secret destiny.” The United States, in Hall’s view, was a society that had been planned and founded by secret esoteric orders to spread enlightenment and liberty to the world
You are seeing a rerun of what happened to America in the 1700's.
Taxation without representation. It is all over.
Me for one, resent having tax dollars spent on weapons of mass destruction, overpaying civil servants for what they do along with their fat pensions and so on. The rest of us when we work for 20 years, still have to continue working for retirement. Many in the public sector can "work" 20 years and call it quits and the rest of us have to support them.
In the old days teachers didn't get paid that much and the quality of education was better in many respects. Now the it seems that teachers work 3/4 of a year and get a full years wage with excellent benefits, regardless of the job they do. It goes on and on.
You can tell by the attitude of the politicians. We are no longer people to them.
Thos are what obumer call extremist views and chery pickin the headlines for your benefits.
Sarc
Gotta point there. A married couple/friends both worked as civilian employees at an AFB near my home. AT 55 both got retirement with 75-80% of there old pay. Even they are amazed. They may have health benefits too but I dont know. I am 55 and wondering where I can work until 65 plus.
Yeah. I look at the government policies, reports from various "think tanks", various leaks from intelligence agencies and can't help noticing that their actions speak for themselves. We are indeed no longer people to those with political power, but livestock to manage.
There's something about power that either turns ordinary people into sociopaths or turns institutions into talent pools attracting only sociopaths and damaged individuals. Either way, I've always wondered about the psychological effects of those delusionists who believe that they are in charge of the destiny and direction of nations. Those self-proclaimed "Masters of the Universe" in finance/banking, the little four star pricks in the military modelling themselves after Napoleon, Alexander, and other "men of destiny", the political puppets and their masters making grand plans for the "future of humanity" without the tiniest glimmer of the intellect needed to make that process happen other than by violence, mass murder, and in ignorance of all the consequences of the euphemistic collateral damage it causes to ordinary men and women. Unintended or not.
Yep, just livestock to manage. At what point does a seemingly normal person who gets into leadership start to believe that they can order others to commit serious crimes like murder? And does it get easier with time? Or is it only sociopaths who seek power and therefore condemns us all to be ruled by them by design?
Every agency must take care of job one. What is job one? Protect the agency. Self-survival. Keep their jobs.
The Pentagon, FBI, CIA is charged with the duty to neutralize anyone who interferes with their mission of protecting the American people and anyone interfering with job one.
It is not sociopathy. Self-survival is in our DNA.
This fake agreement, by getting the Greeks to sign on for more of the same, now will set about an internal battle which destroys this OPPOSITION party. Then the Business as Usual folks can walk right back in to power.
Germany was not working on a real agreement, they were working on a temporary fake agreement just to get it signed as a trojan horse. Now the opposition will tear itself apart over this fake agreement, and the EU supporters will win power and sign back up for the full EU agreement that was in force.
This is simple power politics by Germany. Well played I might add. The Greeks should have taken this one chance to get out, now they will never get as much support again as they once had, making their removal easy for the big money of Europe, even now funding pro EU greek sell outs with millions of dollars.
Is not going to happen Jack. We have a total misconception of the Greek history and spirit. This old man is very respected, but zero hedge, ugh, weight, in the game. The 50 shades post is spot hard on. Just wait and see. The Germans and Dijselbloem believe they are winning, will turn out not.
Time will tell.
I tend to agree with Jack... In summary... Chelsea Clinton's hubby will eventually secure their island compound for her mom, & oh yeah, maybe even a personalized 'Salto di Tiberio' for Slick Willie to entertain his BFF's like Epstein as a parting gift.
Mr. Glezos is a shining exception here. But I think most politicians in most places on earth will not tear each other apart if it means losing power. Perhaps there are other Syriza members like Mr. Glezos, but I'll bet not more than a handful (and those can be easily replaced by politicians from another party who suddenly see the light and join Syriza). I think either of two things will happen: EIther the people will be fooled with slightly less austerity measures and told to have "patience", that change is just around the corner, that they'll negotiate harder next time (sort of like the Democrats with Obama). Or the voters will finally realize that they should have voted for the parties (not yet in Parliament. I'm not talking about the Nazis or the Stalinist Communists who are in Parliament) that told them they had to get out of the euro. The people in those parties were not as charismatic as Tsipras and Varoufakis but they would have been the best advocates for Greece.
Well played Jack. I see it the same way. SYRIZA screwed themselves to be honest and now they have lost face. Even the German finance minister publically laughs at them. Sad indeed.
The Greeks cannot have it both ways however. There is a price to pay for continuing to use the Euro as their fiat currency and SYRIZA did not want to pay the price to default and use the Drachma. People forget only 37% of the votes went to SYRIZA.
The newly elected government sold wolf tickets if could not cash in on. They eliminated all the sympathy for the Greeks by laying out all of the agenda prior to negoiating the agreement. Big words from a nation that cannot collect its taxes and wanted the EMU to hand them even more money even though their own finance minister stated they were insolvent. I am sorry to state this, but pride will not feed you nor commitments signed before this government was elected. The politicians can bitch complain and grand stand all they like, but if they want to use the Euro they will not be sticking it too the man as the EMU is sick of it. The Greeks can either continnue with the agreements of leave the EMU.
On the flip side this agreement could allow Greece time to gets it act together and print drachmas, declare a bank holiday and get out of the Euro.
So much for the 50 Shades of Greece take on it posted on ZH.
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable" - JFK
"If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal."
Emma Goldman
They elected a Liberal. Liberals love "Free Stuff!" Even when it's an Illusion. Okay, who's really surprised by all this? (crickets, crickets...)
You don't know how to Dosey doe? Allemande left, now promenade right. And that's what it's all about. ;)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0rIK3fo41P4
Tsipras/Varoufakis, are TRADERS!!
spineless critters
Traitors? Betrayers?
High Frequency Traitors? (Low Latency?)
I hope Syrzia knows what they are doing. They are our last hope.
He's right.
The countdown begins... For real, this time, it seems.
Why would you say "alleged criminals" that run Golden Dawn, as far as I can tell they're just Greeks opposed to invasion and bankruptcy, does being anti Zionist make you a criminal on ZH?
There's a big ol pot of shit stew being prepared and everyone is gonna have to eat a bowl of it, Greece just happens to be first in line. Bankers are serving it up nice and hot and the captured governments are handing out the saltines.
They are fascists.
But they have balls Eirik, look in the wifes purse for yours multiculti boy..
LOL, if a politicians or banksters lips are moving they are lying...Greece has screwed themselves, and the EU squid is salivating for a takeover! Simple as that.
BERLIN — A Russian newspaper claims to have an official government strategy document outlining the invasion of Ukraine that was prepared weeks before the Ukrainian government collapsed last year.
The editor of Novaya Gazeta, Dmitri Muratov, reported the document during an interview with Echo of Moscow, a radio station. In the interview, which was reported by news outlets Saturday, he did not reveal how the newspaper came into possession of the document in the media unfriendly Russian world, but said he had confidence it was authentic.
Novaya Gazeta is considered a rarity in Russia these days, an independent investigative newspaper that’s known to anger the Kremlin on a regular basis. The editor said the paper’s plan is to publish the full details of the strategy document next week.
Muratov said the document characterized then Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych as “a person without morals and willpower whose downfall must be expected at any moment.” Yanukovych fled Ukraine for Russia on Feb. 22, 2014.
Muratov said the Russian document appears to have been drafted between Feb. 4 and Feb. 15 last year. He said the overall strategy included plans on how to break Ukraine into automonmous sectors, immediately attaching now war-torn southeastern Ukraine to Moscow’s tax union, with a longer term plan for annexation.
The plan suggested “the main thrust should be Crimea and the Kharkhiv region, with the aim of initiating the annexation of the eastern regions.”
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2015/02/21/257386/russian-news-report-ukraine...So what? They didn't invade. The US also has plans drawn up to invade Ukraine, as well as Mexico and Canada. Had them for decades.
your feelings butt-hurt much?
So what? They didn't invade. The US also has plans drawn up to invade Ukraine, as well as Mexico and Canada. Had them for decades.
The US has plans to invade Canada, Mexico and even the Vatican.
Canada has plans to invade the U.S. too. Just kick in the door and the whole rotten edifice will collapse.
Can't wait to see them "negotiate" with Golden Dawn.
Here is the situation. South Stream is long gone. Sorry Bulgaria, that’s what you get for putting your trust in Brussels.
Now we have Turk Stream, and Gazprom CEO Alexei Miller officially putting Europe on notice (and I paraphrase)…‘all gas to Europe will now go through Turkey.’
Not paraphrasing…“now it is up to them to put in place the necessary infrastructure starting from the Turkish-Greek border.”
Big Loser…Europe of course. If Europe wants gas, they have to deal with Turkey and Greece (see Big Winner heading).
http://russia-insider.com/en/2015/01/16/2466
+1
If true, then Greece can kicking is smart move to get deal all squared away and then back to negotiating table with just a tad more leverage.
Now where does the leave Spain and Italy as the next in line?
I wonder how long before.they start murdering each other.
At least then we'll know they're starting to get serious
Negotiations may have included threats of extermination for Tsipras or Varoufakis, their families, their friends. People die for less all the time..
Sounds like it may all be going to plan; talk tough to constituents, fold like a lawn chair under intimidation, then let the outraged population take the stand.
Much harder to kill them all.
This is theatre, as it is to be expected and foreseen. Tsipras and Varoufakis are not going to break the promises they made to their voters. But they now that they must somehow get the mandate to leave the € or be kicked out of it. They buy time in order to make the Greek people understand the evil is in Brussels and not compatible with their desires. Wait for tomorrow. And the following four months.
Sorry - but the Greek people voted in the new government because they already knew Brussels was evil I think all this guessing that the Greeks have some great Byzantine negotiating strategy that has not been revealed yet is BS. even if that take is wrong - how can it hurt to go back to the barricades to stiffen their spines?
BTW - a politician breaking a promise to voters? - whoa there - that's just crazy talk
So if they voted them in they are then ok to take them out in the street and hang them for lying, right? Right to vote but no right to revoke, hmm
Hey ghost of the great American, not all the peoples of the world are American hé. The Greeks have a much longer historical track than the US and that history is not what most people think it is. So I leave it open, we will see.
Fair emough
to me its simple. fuck talk. the bankers are evil that is all u need to know.
I guess the public was really looking forward to bank runs and shortages of everything.
Michael Hudson once said a debt that cant be paid wont be paid. For some reason this seems to be a incredible pearl of wisdom.
The only sensible way to move forward would be to cut this debt to sustainable levels so the economy can recover.
If the EU and creditors try to ignore this obvious reality, they just might end up getting nothing, or something worse than nothing.
The problem is that the so called debt is illegitimate stemming from gambling of EU and Greek oligarch pinned onto poor. That's not a debt that's accounting treachery. If Syriza was really independent they would jail all Greek bankers first and demand the money they stole back.
Greece needs to set up a special prosecutors office and go through this entire horror story from start to finish.
They could talk to someone like Eva Joly to get advice on how to set this up. It would be interesting to go over the privatization of state assets since the crisis started and everything related to the banking system.
A interview with Eva Joly https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njR62PJOXFk It starts at 1:14
Greece should never have joined the euro. It appears that it did so only because Goldman Sachs used some magic spells on the books to make certain numbers change in favor of euro entry.
Since this has done incredible damage to the Greek economy, a law suit against those responsible should be considered.
There was nothing to negotiate. Syriza blew their wad early. There was no way Marxists were going to give up the euro. It's an international government project. No way socialists give that up.
Greece, your economy isn't recovering because of lack of gov't spending, but because of the increased taxes. Syriza was never going to lower your taxes. Just spend more money on the military. You were sold out the minute they came into power.
The problem is, they want their cake and eat it! They can't cut loose from the austerity, without leaving the Euro, but they want to stay in the Euro?
On Monday go and tell them the deal is off, Greece holds all the cards! Either that or go back to the country!
The Greek people hold all the cards. Just have a real tax revolt. Stop collecting the VAT and throw up a giant middle finger
revolucion
Anti-austerity coalition partner should quit and call for vote of no confidence forcing Syriza out into new polls, quick referendum on the agreement just signed as well as mandate to leave euro and EU. This is nothing short of another humiliation for Greek nation.
Remedy for deficit of democracy is more democracy, we should not have to teach Greeks about it. They have their history.
Manolis Glezos clearly realizes that debt enslavement to bankers isn't freedom.
People must learn to cast off the monetary shackles created by the banksters, who excel at creating money out of thin air and using it to make slaves of us all.
Since 2007, the world has been mired in a debt spiral that strangles viable businesses while rewarding parasitic banks.
This spiral has been brought about through quantitative easing, the endless bailout of big banks that comes in the form of free loans to those banks. All the world's resources flow to them while starving the public.
Abolish the banks.
Good idea but not really necessary. Abolish the EURO
A people cannot voted themselves from bankruptcy to solvency.
Corporations do it all the time. What is the difference?
Why not? Iceland did.
You should probably do a little study concerning the nature of money and how it comes into being in a fiat system.
Heard on a stove once:
Kettle: "You're black."
Pot: "No, you're black"
...
The banksters need to repay us.
What an amazingly long list of clueless troll gibberish today. For an explanation of the obvious, please see:
Varoufakis's Revolutionary Plan For Europe --Don't Tell Anyone In Berlin
http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article49522.html
From your link "United States of Europe and escape these frustratingly recurrent crises. Varoufakis knows this, but of course he’s not pushing for this. Not yet at least". Surrender sovreignty much?
Germany is an occupied territory.
Want to bet the banks don't reopen on tuesday?
Rather than Germany’s WW2 antics , show me your papers. It will evolve to, show me your SIM card to validate that your key is not on the Internet banned list. Another black market created, burning SIM cards and Cloning. Only your Government can create this mess. Isn’t that right NSA? Stop pushing, you will only lose in the end. That’s the beauty of coding. Anyone can set a mousetrap and break-in. The question, after computer breach, will you escape the mousetrap set on your system?
Don’t fret, I’m a good boy. I just can foresee how this is headed. You will lose, because you know little shit about the old systems that were patched to prevent backdoor entry.
Think about that. What version of software are you running NSA? LOL. I promise, will not try to get in. Giving you advice. We still plan on defunding you. You have broken the law.
Certain slavery or an IMF riot, there was only ever one choice for freedom, exit now.
You can not negociate with a room full off snakes.
Hate to say, I told you so. However, part of the reason if looking at the best possible light - the incoming inexperienced party does not get to see all aspects of the situation. Only when they come into power and the responsibilities that were once held by the incumbent do they realize they're truly stuck.
If they truly were serious - they'd just dump it instead of bothering with negotiations.
But situations are fluid - we'll see if it shifts.
The troika is a nazi communist hybrid everyone running for office in Greece is either a nazi or a communist or a hybrid of both. Why don't you idiots de-radicalize yourselves and get behind a libertarian party that will do nothing except guarantee individual liberties. Are you not the First Nation to experiment with self rule? So why all the fascination with tyrants?
Golden Dawn in 3...2...1...
For anyone interested, here is a 2 minute video on Manolis Glezos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfFTjVHcZr8
He is the greatest!
Thank you
Lloyd and the Gang are doing Karaoke at this minute and he's belting out one of his favourites; 'i'm having the time of my life and i owe it all to you , ooh ooh . . i've never felt this way before . . .'
Isn’t this about the time when Syriza and Goldman hold a private meeting?
“Come on guys, you must know a way to help me out. Hell, you did it before.”
it's pretty simple in reality. Bail Out = Loan Extension
Greece's problems are systemic by design as long as they are beholdin to the EU. The EU has metasisized & greece needs to excise itself but won't.
Politicians all lie.
When your printing money out of nothing i.e. EU / Fed Reserve as a "coterie" it's easier to go along to get along.
Either way it's all going to be a "shitsandwich" soon enough.
Da Da Dat Da Da Da Da
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-SNrvHdZJE