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Ex-Plunge Protection Team Whistleblower: "Governments Control Markets; There Is No Price Discovery Anymore"

Tyler Durden's picture




 

One year after the great stock market crash in 1987, US President Ronald Reagan launched the "Working Group on Financial Markets." Conspiracy theorists believe, however, that the real task of this committee is to protect against a renewed slump in the stock market. In the jargon of Wall Street, the working group is known as the "Plunge Protection Team."

One glimpse at a few days suring 2007/8 and it is clear that 'someone' with infinitely deep pockets was able to support markets on several critical days - though, of course, anyone proclaiming intervention was propagandized away as a conspiracy theory wonk. However, as Dr. Pippa Malmgren - a former member of the U.S. President’s Working Group on Financial Markets - it is not conspiracy theory, it is conspiracy fact: "there's no price discovery anymore by the market... governments impose prices on the market."

*  *  *

In this 38 minute interview Lars Schall, for Matterhorn Asset Management, speaks with Dr Pippa Malmgren, a US financial advisor and policy expert based in London. Dr Malmgren has been a member of the U.S. President’s Working Group on Financial Markets (a.k.a. the “Plunge Protection Team”). They address, inter alia:

Full interview:

 

Source: GoldSwitzerland.com

*  *  *

Still don't believe?

Here is Scott Nations in 2008 getting "Schiff'd" by the CNBC anchors (Liesman) and some other guest muppet when he dares to suggest the Fed is intervening and that the President's Working Group (i.e. Plunge Protection Team) is hard at work...

"look at the market action on the 10th and 28th and tell me what else might have generated a 100 point rally in the S&P under that situation?" Liesman fobs him off as some conspiracy wonk...

Yep looks normal to us... 10/10/2008

 

and 10/28/2008

 

Those are 100 point moves on a 700/800 S&P!! Nothing to see here eh Liesman, Kiernan, Quick?

*  *  *

And of course there's last October's Bullared bounce... the longest most consistent trend higher in stocks ever.

 

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Mon, 02/23/2015 - 19:50 | 5820317 nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

Governments "impose" prices, yes, but the other side of that trade is the fact that the pricing mechanism used is a debauched currency.  This thing will fail spectacularly.

Watching everyday for the last 15 years has been entertaining, to say the least.

 

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 19:51 | 5820326 COSMOS
COSMOS's picture

A natural consequence of removing gold as a standard for currency.

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 19:57 | 5820349 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

This is not the Plunge Protection Team you're looking for you dirty rotten commie conspiracy theorist.

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 20:05 | 5820380 Clueless Economist
Clueless Economist's picture

Wow, I had forgotten how hot Steve Liesman was in 2008 with a little more hair.  I always wanted to kiss his sweaty dome and play with his tummy fat.

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 20:14 | 5820406 gmrpeabody
gmrpeabody's picture

Wait..., what...,

you mean they lied...?

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 20:15 | 5820415 Never One Roach
Never One Roach's picture

What do you mean, "debauched" currency? My $100 still buys $60 worth of food. It will really get bad when I'll need $100 to buy a $1 item of food.

 

The devastation coninues on a daily basis.

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 20:28 | 5820455 bwh1214
bwh1214's picture

That depends on where you timeline starts.  If you go back 90 years you get your 100 to 1 ratio.  

 

Great explaination of how we got here on this site -->  http://debtcrash.blogspot.com/2015/02/history-and-introduction.html

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 20:31 | 5820462 Pinto Currency
Pinto Currency's picture

 

 

Riggging of gold and silver on the LBMA has gone on for decades which allowed interest rate suppression - the primary tool for inflating the global debt market and financial asset bubbles.

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 20:40 | 5820489 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

The stock pumpers and COMEX paper humpers are going to get it good and hard one day. Can't say they haven't been warned. What a bunch of useless pricks (the PPT, SEC, CFTC, and others), that have ruined any semblance of normal market action.

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 20:59 | 5820560 Four chan
Four chan's picture

only a fucking idiot would think todays markets are not completely manipulated.

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 21:16 | 5820618 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

some serious heavy metal playin in these here parts of late.

I like it.

"American Psycho" meets "Swan Lake."

All I have to say is gold is still a standard. Don't know if you can still take your nugget right to the mint, have them refine it and certify as pure (for a nominal fee) still...but if Janet Yellen wants to "move the market" she could start by saying the Fed welcomes certifying your gold as 100% pure and then giving it back to you as such.

Other than that I really don't understand the use of the place really...

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 21:43 | 5820705 knukles
knukles's picture

Careful.... Pippa's got some interesting affiliations.  (from Wikipedia).   Don't make her right or wrong, but some interesting relationships.  In fact, I agree with her premise all's fucked and controlled in one fashion or another....
Is there a nail gun in her future?

She has served on the Board of Advisors of the Oxford Banking Forum, Mount Vernon College, the Aspen Institute in France, and the World Economic Forum Environment Project. She has lectured at the London School of Economics, Tsinghua University in Beijing, the MIT Sloan Fellows, Oxford University, West Point, and Duke University Business School.

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 21:52 | 5820743 SMG
SMG's picture

Thank you Pippa Malmgren for doing the right thing and making this sacrifice.   Some of us out here do appretiate it.

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 22:10 | 5820798 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

So, I guess we can all go home now, is what she's saying.

 

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 23:03 | 5820880 Pinto Currency
Pinto Currency's picture

 

 

It's the LBMA that accounts for 85% of global gold trading that is pumping and dumping and dumping and dumping.

Here's how messed up it is - and it has been going on for decades:

http://www.safehaven.com/article/36534/lbma-data-points-to-gold-and-silver-default

 

Malmgren's take-home message: blame the government.  That's the end of the story.  The government.  Say it again and again until you stop pondering the whole affair.

The trail goes no further, says Pippa.  The trail certainly does NOT go to the CFR nor its organizers nor the banks in which they hold shares.

Certainly, certainly not.

The government.

Tue, 02/24/2015 - 03:24 | 5821496 Richard Chesler
Richard Chesler's picture

Pippa could use a lesson in abstract algebra.

A binary relation R over a set X is transitive if whenever an element a is related to an element b, and b is in turn related to an element c, then a is also related to c. Transitivity is a key property of both partial order relations and equivalence relations.

In practical terms,

A - Banksters own gov lackeys.

B - Gov lackeys manipulate markets.

C - Banksters own and manipulate markets.

 

Tue, 02/24/2015 - 07:37 | 5821720 new game
new game's picture

D - we are fucked til it crumbles due to exhausted lies and manipulation. that process could outlive me, hopefully. reason i say hopefully is simple. i don't want to be around for the great reset of the human civilazation. much to much blood and devastation for any one human to endure...

Tue, 02/24/2015 - 08:40 | 5821835 Sashko89
Sashko89's picture

Listened to her full interview she says: she thinks gold rigging is a conspiracy theory and has labeled it as such and said  "the officials  who are in power today are genuinely doing their best to make the decisions that are right today". She speaks 90 perent truth and gives 10 percent lies, so becarefull with her and what she says... she could say 99 perent truth in the begining and then throw in a 1 percent lie in the end. If you listen to her full interview she has negative feelings towards gold, and says that she doesn't think we will have a gold currency standard in the future for reasons that are less than solid. 

Tue, 02/24/2015 - 06:01 | 5821635 Squid-puppets a...
Squid-puppets a-go-go's picture

Im the sole chump downvoter here.

Because, whether or not the govt are the oligarchs puppets (which they are) , it is the govt which sets the price, by various manipulative instruments . so her assertions are not a falsehood, and im not sure whether she's been asked - or what her answer is were she asked - the question of in whose interests the govt manipulation are under. So its unfair to slam her for 'covering up' the real / ultimate conspiracy when the topic at hand seems limited to the role of govt in price discovery.

 

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 23:08 | 5820961 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

Actually she said come hell or high water they're going to inflate.

She also said that Volker told them once you start printing you can't stop and the financial system is now going to blow up and we are all fucked.

And she's not saying anything sensible about noone wanting to buy gold because the price is rigged or Russia now feeling free to use military aggression against the West. And that's just the price of membership in the CFR talking because I'm sure she was front-row center when Greenspan told them all to buy gold back in October 2014.

Other than that she's hot...

Tue, 02/24/2015 - 00:46 | 5821260 eatthebanksters
eatthebanksters's picture

Three words:  audit the Fed

Tue, 02/24/2015 - 02:34 | 5821396 SilverFish
SilverFish's picture

.

Tue, 02/24/2015 - 02:10 | 5821397 SilverFish
SilverFish's picture

Bit of a waste of time at this point, isn't it?

Tue, 02/24/2015 - 11:00 | 5822338 fleur de lis
fleur de lis's picture

It would be worthwhile to audit the Fed. The fact that they have fought off all previous attempts suggests they have mountains to hide. We all know the books are cooked but it would be interesting to see how creative they are with our money.

Tue, 02/24/2015 - 09:02 | 5821876 lucyvp
lucyvp's picture

Right all go home and buy more stocks and bonds.

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 22:21 | 5820799 AssFire
AssFire's picture

A hot chick with a brain is a dangerous combination.

Weaponized pussy I tell ya- she knows "Plunge Protection" better than any presidential panel.

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 22:43 | 5820912 delacroix
delacroix's picture

she didn't have to worry about obama hittin on her

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 22:54 | 5820941 I MISS KUDLOW
I MISS KUDLOW's picture

Old picture of her she looks fat now

Tue, 02/24/2015 - 02:14 | 5821403 401K of Dooom
401K of Dooom's picture

Oh wow, can we have her on the panel for the next presidential debate?  Better yet, let's just ,make her our President.

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 21:53 | 5820747 Spitzer
Spitzer's picture

With that kind of resume, she must also be...

-Member of the Dominic Strauss Kahn sex party club.

 

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 22:09 | 5820783 Ballin D
Ballin D's picture

They have an 'unlimited paycheck' and shes the talent they come up with? This chick could barely explain the costs of maintaining this policy at 27:00.  She got higher taxes off the list fast, stumbled through reduced pension benefits, and concluded with reduced benefits in 'their' society. 

 

Not saying I disagree with her general points but shes just saying what people want to hear to sell her book.

Tue, 02/24/2015 - 02:36 | 5821436 napper
napper's picture

Very good. Always be vigilant.

 

Hope she's an exception.

Tue, 02/24/2015 - 05:46 | 5821625 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

Nope. She is advocating a planned economy...a planned economic collapse.

 

Well as Mike Tyson says about plans...

 

Well this collapse will hit everybody like a punch in the mouth...

 

So much for her plans...

Tue, 02/24/2015 - 05:13 | 5821603 Sir SpeaksALot
Sir SpeaksALot's picture

it s all staged, she is a part of it, "World Shepherds" need to bring on the collapse of the current system to make a room for NWO,

she is telling the "technical" truth but her intentions, considering the organisations she s a member of, are sinister. 

she s just another tool.

Tue, 02/24/2015 - 07:21 | 5821705 ebear
ebear's picture

Clearly someone discovered her price.

Tue, 02/24/2015 - 08:12 | 5821779 RadioactiveRant
RadioactiveRant's picture

SOmeones padding out her Wiki entry. Chatham House IS the Royal Institute for International Affairs and the Reform Club is just an establishment drinking house.

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 21:36 | 5820676 DeadFred
DeadFred's picture

Every time someone distorts the market they create opportunities to exploit it. Everyone knows of BTFD but there are others. I hate giving away my cash cow but check out the low liquidity S&P components. It's seems clear that since October at least they (or someone) have been buying SPY or other ETFs whenever they want the market to ramp. If the market drops to some critical support and looks like it will break lower, or like today when they just needed it to break even someone starts buying more ETFs than are being offered. Those new shares need to be covered so the components start to be purchased. The low liquidity stocks shoot through the ceiling. Low beta stock will gain 1-2% in less than an hour with ease. But the Fed or whoever is doing it don't want to accumulate shares so they get sold back later and that fast gain becomes a fast loss. I don't get to do this often since I have real(er) things to do other than watch the market but I've yet to make less than 100% buying puts against these bogus manipulations and selling them a day or two later. EIX has been my favorite target but there are others. A scheme like theirs that opens up gapping holes is doomed.

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 22:56 | 5820947 Its_the_economy...
Its_the_economy_stupid's picture

Thanks for the thought line

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 21:45 | 5820701 ml8ml8
ml8ml8's picture

I find this truly disconcerting as it goes straight to the heart of capitalism itself on the biggest capitalist playing field there is--American stock markets.  If your counterparty has unlimited resources, then there is no price discovery at the margin because there is no margin.  While there's been speculation about the Fed, other Central Banks openly buy US equities and have for years, yet few seem to care.  For example, the Swiss National Bank (a publicly traded company) owns about 0.35% of the entire market cap of the Nasdaq (~US$27b). Conveniently, they file 13-F's.  Want to know what they owned in detail as of 12/31/2014? Here's a link.

http://www.nasdaq.com/quotes/institutional-portfolio/swiss-national-bank...

But even if CBs were banned from directly buying equities, they could easily buy indirectly, through investment funds as everyone who pays attention to such things already believes they do.   I haven't seen that the Bank of Japan discloses in detail (and in English) their equity ownership, but maybe someone can point me in the right direction.

Another very important issue this raises is voting of owned shares? Who votes these large blocks of stock in critical matters of corporate governance? Who exaactly makes those decisions and how? Do they just blindly follow ISS?

Rand Paul should add disclosure of direct and indirect equity or equity fund ownership to the "Audit the Fed" bill if he hasn't already.

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 22:09 | 5820809 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

First off, we've never actually had free markets so who really knows what we've been missing out on.  More importantly, nobody cares if markets are controlled so long as they are always controlled in the right direction.

Like Dr. Engali says:  the markets are a policy tool.  And I think that's about the best explanation for it all.

 

Tue, 02/24/2015 - 08:48 | 5821850 LooseLee
LooseLee's picture

What you say has no relationship to 'Capitalism'. There is no 'Capitalism', only Crony-ism...(a marriage of Socialism, Fascism, and Communism as far as economics goes). Note no mention of Freedom. This is what you get in the ABSENCE of Freedom...

Tue, 02/24/2015 - 00:01 | 5821157 amadeus39
amadeus39's picture

If you believe markets are manipulated by our government, then the prudent thing to have done would have been to buy the dips for the last 5-6 years. Keep your money in the markets, your government has your back covered. If you missed out doubling or tripling your money, it's not too late. The government wll protect investors, just like it did in 2008 and 2009. If you don't have any money to invest, it's your own damn fault.

 

Tue, 02/24/2015 - 03:18 | 5821485 MeBizarro
MeBizarro's picture

Until they can't and the storm surge finds even a very modest crack.

Tue, 02/24/2015 - 05:54 | 5821631 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

If you don't have any money to invest, it's your own damn fault.

 

Please expand on that idea...

 

The markets are rigged to enrichen THE BANKSTER and the STOCKBROKER, asshole.

 

You keep your illiciit gains. I will keep my Gold.

 

You will LOSE EVERYTHING THAT YOU HAVE.

 

Or did I miss your satire???

Tue, 02/24/2015 - 08:53 | 5821774 amadeus39
amadeus39's picture

I resent the "asshole" ad hominem part of your reply. It demeans you, scumbag. Your detection of sarcasm is correct. Market timing is the name of the game. Unfortunately, timing is the most difficult part of the game. And one must not lose all of one's chips or game is over.

 

 

 

Tue, 02/24/2015 - 10:35 | 5822233 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

Up arrow for you. I detest those that can't debate so they make personal attacks. It shows they are very narrow minded.

I'll probably be buying Tom's gold a fire sale prices as the price goes down. I've been doing it to other PM bugs.

Tue, 02/24/2015 - 08:50 | 5821854 LooseLee
LooseLee's picture

Said by a card-carrying member of the PINKO FASCIST COMMIE Clan...

Tue, 02/24/2015 - 07:32 | 5821718 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

But a lot of folks will sell you 'technical analysis' stuff that'll let you predict where 'the market' is heading

Tue, 02/24/2015 - 08:20 | 5821793 amadeus39
amadeus39's picture

Yes making predictions is difficult..especially about the future. But that is what life is about. Don't sit on the sidelines and watch others play. If your a memeber of the American Fan Culture (AFC), you cannot win the game of life. No skin in the game.

 .

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 22:50 | 5820931 Dapper Dan
Dapper Dan's picture

proof of that right here pinto,

banks

Feb 24, 2015, 02:30 AM GMT 16m
US officials investigating at least 10 major banks for possible rigging of precious-metals markets, sources tell @WSJBreakingNews Read more on www.wsj.com
Tue, 02/24/2015 - 08:52 | 5821856 LooseLee
LooseLee's picture

Let us know if a legitimate class-action lawsuit materializes. I have trades on silver going back to 2003...

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 21:07 | 5820588 GeezerGeek
GeezerGeek's picture

And yet the silver dollars I got at a bank in 1963 can buy approximately the same number of gallons of gasoline now as they did then.

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 21:21 | 5820631 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

That includes that Mexican stash I got proffered...speaking of silver.

 

"We offer re-minting services as well."

 

Take that info-net psychos.

 

"Government approved."

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 20:30 | 5820458 Pinto Currency
Pinto Currency's picture

-

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 21:23 | 5820638 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

And I'll keep my Nazi gold as is thank you very much.

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 20:30 | 5820463 philipat
philipat's picture

I guess nothing changes until we reach the logical concusion that the Government, directly or indirectly, owns everything. Then what?

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 20:51 | 5820528 Mike in GA
Mike in GA's picture

Then the government turns it over to Jon Corzine for safekeeping - what could be safer?

Tue, 02/24/2015 - 08:34 | 5821823 amadeus39
amadeus39's picture

All this talk about the "government" is driving me crazy, as if the "government" is the final scapegoat. WE, all of us, are the problem.   It is futile to blame others. The blame game will not work unless we are willing to blame ourselves and try to improve our own behavior...unless, of course, we are perfect and everyone else is not. We must stop looking for a savior to help us. We must help ourselves.

 

 

Tue, 02/24/2015 - 20:11 | 5824659 Mike in GA
Mike in GA's picture

Amadeus, the article is entitled "Governments Control Markets, There Is No Price Discovery Anymore".  

I don't control Markets, do you?

I don't get called when the Fed wants to raise or lower interest rates, or print another trillion or two, do you?

There are plenty of "us" who are busy "helping themselves" at the trough and teat of countless Government programs I never had a hand in.

I have never been part of the citizenry that cried out for anything to be done on my behalf or because of fairness.

An individual takes a stand against county, state or federal gov at his own risk today.  IRS audits are just one tool, zoning variance denials, etc. are another.   It takes a really special intellect to pierce the progressive resistance from all sides and make headway against the behemoth.  I ain't him.  Look at the trouble even Rush Limbaugh has to tolerate to voice any dissent.

It's too big to succeed but too big to fail.  

Immovable object meet irresistible force.

 

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 20:13 | 5820411 koaj
koaj's picture

I nearly choked on my dinner. nice work

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 21:46 | 5820720 Spitzer
Spitzer's picture

I was really impressed with this Pippa chic on this Russia sanctions debate I heard the other day.

 

http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/worldservice/bizdaily/bizdaily_20150...

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 23:43 | 5820934 socalbeach
socalbeach's picture

good link thanks.

 

Michael Calvey of Baring Vostok made a good point near the end: "So just imagine that the Russian Parliament passes a law that prohibits any sanctioned company from paying debts that it owes to countries that have sanctioned them.  It would be devastating ..."

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 20:22 | 5820440 Muddy1
Muddy1's picture

Dr. Malgram, on the other hand sizzles.

 

Note to the good Dr., I hope your affairs are in order.  You have told the truth and that means you have made TPTB very, very mad.

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 20:34 | 5820469 FallenOne
FallenOne's picture

Is this bitch stupid??? governments control markets??...no criminal organizations control mrkets the criminals you used to work for! call a spade a spade you fugly cunt! government is there to keep the slaves in line and to better further the agenda. without the money changers mucking things up who knows what kinda world we would be in rite now i surmise a futuristic eutopia like literally.

Tue, 02/24/2015 - 08:28 | 5821311 BeanusCountus
BeanusCountus's picture

Nice. Sure hope you are a neighbor of mine. Looking forward to arguing with you at the next grad party. By the time I am done, you will be dismissed as the idiot you are.

Edited. Apologize, last bersion out of line.

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 20:56 | 5820547 sunnyside
sunnyside's picture

She's damn hot.  I would plunge into her without protection.

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 22:20 | 5820845 WillyGroper
WillyGroper's picture

That pic is 30yrs old.

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 22:28 | 5820875 Cacete de Ouro
Cacete de Ouro's picture

Huh? That means she's about 70. Suddenly the urge to plunge is gone...

Tue, 02/24/2015 - 03:21 | 5821492 MeBizarro
MeBizarro's picture

I wouldn't say 30 years.  Just some serious airbrushing of the potrait photo.

Tue, 02/24/2015 - 08:39 | 5821834 amadeus39
amadeus39's picture

In your wet dreams plebe. She is above and beyond your insipid self.

 

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 21:23 | 5820637 Bob
Bob's picture

Sorry, guys, but it would appear that the pic above was something like her college graduation photo.  More recently:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Izr8i4EzV4

Tue, 02/24/2015 - 02:00 | 5821377 harposox
harposox's picture

I clicked, and youtube fed me an ad for "Wicked Tuna." You can't make this shit up.

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 21:17 | 5820619 optimator
optimator's picture

I always had the desire to do some instant dental surgery on the scumbag.

Tue, 02/24/2015 - 02:12 | 5821401 401K of Dooom
401K of Dooom's picture

I downvoted you because of the obscene visual you put into my mind!  Now I can't go to sleep because of the fear of the bogeyman jumping out of the internet to do something horrible to me.  I better get out those box-tops and use them to redeem time at the Wal-mart therapist so I can get over this!

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 20:11 | 5820399 nuubee
nuubee's picture

I'd love a financial plunge protection team of my own, perhaps they could flexibly insert themselves between my backside and the IRS attempting to find an entry point. I've always wanted to avoid a little plunging on myself by those folks.

 

All kidding aside, can I get a "separation of finance and state" amendment? Something like...

"Congress shall make no law, and the executive shall make no memos nor enforce any rules to effect the establishment of preference towards finance practice or financial instruments to be used within the United States."

Of course, then you'd have chaos, with a million different financial instruments available to anyone with a buck to their name. But at the end of that chaos, you'd have precious metals, and bullshit walking off the scene.

Tue, 02/24/2015 - 08:47 | 5821843 amadeus39
amadeus39's picture

Jefferson was unable to achieve this. though he tried mightily. What makes you think you and I can?  Hamilton won, I believe. The pragmatist over the idealist again.

 

 

 

 

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 20:14 | 5820416 nmewn
nmewn's picture

"there's no price discovery anymore by the market... governments impose prices on the market."

And by extension of that undeniable fact, it can be said that government is the main cause of higher prices for everyone.

The income inequality debate is coming to an end ;-)

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 20:26 | 5820449 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

This is how they pay their debts by robbing us through inflation. No need to bash in our doors and rob us at gunpoint when we can pay at the quikimart. Okay, the robbing at gunpoint will come later after we have no money left to spend and it simply becomes asset forfeiture. Some won't go down so easily though.

Miffed

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 20:34 | 5820470 manofthenorth
manofthenorth's picture

ROGER that.

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 21:44 | 5820702 willwork4food
willwork4food's picture

Asset forfeiture is already here. Just get caught with a few joints in your car. If you have a few more than a few  you will lose everything in your home too.

btw- we missed you Miffed!

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 21:53 | 5820748 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

Not if you are an illegal Mexican. They would give you a drivers license and drive you over to the local pot dispensary with a subsidy. Or have I become too cynical? ;-)

And it's good to be back. I do hope you are well. Honestly, I think of you often. The other day I was reading about milk thistle and if I had your address, I would have sent you some.

Miffed;-)

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 22:53 | 5820936 willwork4food
willwork4food's picture

Got that Miffed, and Essiac, Hemp oil, seed and good quality beer. Thank you for the kind thoughts my friend.

Tue, 02/24/2015 - 01:05 | 5821295 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

Thanks, I feel better knowing this. Please take care

Miffed;-)

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 23:00 | 5820953 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Here ya go M, a rant for the ages, Mollie Hemingway unloads her cynicism...

http://thefederalist.com/2015/02/23/we-dont-have-a-wage-gap-problem-but-hollywood-and-the-white-house-do/

...and spares no one ;-)

Tue, 02/24/2015 - 01:13 | 5821312 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

Absolutely fabulous! Hypocritical shit bags in Hollywood really set me off. At least where you are you won't smell their stench. Where I sit, a constant wafting of sewage from the north that never ends!

Ok, you blew my resolution of no drinking during the week. Had to have a glass of a nice wine with dinner reading their idiotic grandstanding! Idiots fool so many it's sad.

Miffed

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 21:56 | 5820763 centerline
centerline's picture

whole system rigged for guilty until proven innocent... good luck with getting your assets back.  Most Americans when squeezed will suddenly cry fowl for the first time... and find out what a boot to the head feels like.  Rude awakenings are a motherfucker.

Tue, 02/24/2015 - 03:08 | 5821477 El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture

The system is rigged to get you to plead guilty before ever even thinking about standing in front of a jury.

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 20:45 | 5820506 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Yes, they prefer to define it in other terms but it is currency destruction.

And another statist-Keynesian strawman is burnt at the stake, that of, wanting to protect the "value" of the dollar, we're not having that debate anymore either ;-)

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 21:38 | 5820684 WhackoWarner
WhackoWarner's picture

Get your money out.

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 20:41 | 5820491 Greenskeeper_Carl
Greenskeeper_Carl's picture

nmewn +1 i was thinking the exact same thing, thats where this information logically leads. Which is largly what we have been saying all along. Maybe not the 'plunge protection team' per se, but govt and cnetral bank imposed inflation that steals from you each and every year. I get infuriated hearing these people blather on about income inequality when they themselves and the policies they impose are THE DIRECT CAUSE of it

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 20:53 | 5820536 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Faith & credit...when it pertains to currency & wages & ones standard of living has always struck me as particularly fallacious.

Faith in what, credit from whom, paid back with what?...lol.

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 21:40 | 5820694 WhackoWarner
WhackoWarner's picture

Get your money out.

Cash in every single account and bring it under your own direct control.  get your money out.

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 21:46 | 5820716 WhackoWarner
WhackoWarner's picture

MR Grpoundskeeps.

Quit arguing.  The hour is getting late.

Get your "savings" out.  After you save your ass then argue rght and wrong.

 

Hear your golfer in chief today?  We are coming after all the trillions in retirement funds.  That is where this is going,  Get the F out.

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 21:36 | 5820674 WhackoWarner
WhackoWarner's picture

I realized that my mind had been frigged since Charles De Gaulle back in the 60's.

Guess my tin foil chapeau is aged like a fine cheese,

 

Commie theory?  Please.  The USA has done way better than commie theory. This is nonsense,  USA ; chained and manipulated, raped and controlled, Utterly disabled,  Slowly and surely on every level all the rights are being dismanted as the propoganda machine ramps up.

HOW on earth can the Supreme Court designate "corporations as people????".

That kinda makes actual people and their children disadvantaged as they do not have billions to lobby and buy and influence and cheat and to steal.  Corporations are afforded the same rights as human people?  Yeah OK.

So now let's throw them all onto death row in Texas to await mercy,

 

This is one very very very sick society.

Tue, 02/24/2015 - 02:17 | 5821410 manofthenorth
manofthenorth's picture

+100

"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society"

Teach your children well, that is the only hope for a brighter future.

Tue, 02/24/2015 - 08:48 | 5821847 U-P-G-R-A-Y-E-D-D
U-P-G-R-A-Y-E-D-D's picture

One thing I never heard people complain about with the "corps are people" arrangement is that foreigners can start a US corporation.  Then the US corporation (which is essentially a person with rights in the US) can petition to have the foreigners legally come to the US to join their corporation.  Boom, foreigners create anchor-corporations and came come join the US disaster...having contributed, I suppose, $350 or so to legalzoom to incorporate in Delaware.  

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 22:00 | 5820776 Lets Buy The Dip
Lets Buy The Dip's picture

forget the PPP and the fed. 

Heard someone in here say today. "we are never going down again on the market"

its creating a lot of GREED out there. FEAR / GREED INDICATOR here ==> http://bit.ly/1fMcakI

that chart above is very scary, I must admit. Dont you think YELLEN speaking this week, is a set up for something else. She is a good liar but. We will see by WED arvo. Hmmmm. 

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 22:57 | 5820950 JoWazzoo
JoWazzoo's picture

The Fed cannot allow the market to go down.  And besides - it doesn't much.  Tried to Friday when WOOSHHHH - Futures and Equities lit like a rocket to close at yet more highs.  That shit isn't some buy side, algo or HFT BS either.  Concerted effort to keep it up.

Listen carefully to what Yellin says.  She will indicate to the effect that the Fed will do whatever it takes. 

Tue, 02/24/2015 - 11:04 | 5822354 JRobby
JRobby's picture

Not news when Liesman states there is something he has never heard of.

The weight of what he does not know could create a black hole.

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 21:01 | 5820566 ronron
ronron's picture

nope. a natural consequence of removing silver from peoples pockets.

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 21:40 | 5820695 junction
junction's picture

First, the Plunge Protection Team is called in by the Fed.  If problems persist, there is the old reliable to keep the market actors in check: the "Nail Gun Squad." Nothing like the threat of your iminent demise by a USA hit team to make you kowtow to the hardened criminals who run global markets.  How to pick an appropriate victim of the Nail Gun Squad?  Ask the NSA's James Clapper, who works as the finger man, using worldwide wiretap data.  Obama probably makes the final call on putting someone on the Kill List.

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 22:22 | 5820851 Kprime
Kprime's picture

there should be atleast 1/2 million up arrows on this, maybe it will go viral when enough sheep have been slaughtered, but for now, silence of the lambs.

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 19:52 | 5820332 johngaltfla
johngaltfla's picture

The sky is blue.

The US government is a fraud.

Obama is a communist Muslim.

John McCain was supposed to be the Manchurian candidate.

Jeb Bush is a fat assed tard.

Are there any other facts besides this article we need to reveal?

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 19:58 | 5820356 hangemhigh77
hangemhigh77's picture

cops eat donuts

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 20:19 | 5820431 silverliberty
silverliberty's picture

I thought they were doughnuts or are their nuts made of dough??????  I am so confused.

 

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 22:21 | 5820848 Kprime
Kprime's picture

ahhhh, maybe there is something in the donuts causing the cops to shoot citizens.  Something causing them to pull the trigger repeatedly until the magazine is empty. Donut Holes?

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 20:09 | 5820390 Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

Hillary is a cynical sociopath.

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 22:56 | 5820945 willwork4food
willwork4food's picture

That gives cynical sociopaths a bad name. Shame on you.

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 20:18 | 5820428 tarabel
tarabel's picture

 

 

The President is the secret love child of Barack H Obama and Barack H Obama.

Your bank deposits and 401k accounts are perfectly safe.

Austria and Hungary are in secret negotiations to reconfigure their empire and take over both Germany and Greece to end all the arguing.

Vladimir Putin is dating Bruce Jenner

All of Hollywood is shocked that American Sniper did not win Best Picture.

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 22:24 | 5820862 nmewn
nmewn's picture

"Vladimir Putin is dating Bruce Jenner"

lol...well at least Brucie won't be crashing the family truckster anymore, now that a real man is behind the wheel.

Sigh... ;-)

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 22:55 | 5820943 delacroix
delacroix's picture

can't really threaten bruce jenner, with pound me in the ass federal prison.

Tue, 02/24/2015 - 06:52 | 5821674 nmewn
nmewn's picture

ROTFL!

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 22:18 | 5820837 Blano
Blano's picture

Chris Christie is the fatter assed tard.

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 20:05 | 5820364 jarana
jarana's picture

Prices cannot be impossed.

Only work, production, delivery... etc restrictions (regulations) can be imposed.

The "fake" prices we're getting now are the consequence, not the cause.

The "fake" currencies we're using now cannot fix the "price" of anything. They can only fix the unit we measure prices and erode your ability to save as a consequence of their counter-factual fluctuations.

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 20:11 | 5820404 NaN
NaN's picture

How do you spell Corporate Welfare?

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 20:22 | 5820439 silverliberty
silverliberty's picture

Gubermint....Guvament......Govrmunt......oh the hell with it,  the FED.

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 20:59 | 5820558 booboo
booboo's picture

well there's 15 years you will never get back.

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 22:53 | 5820939 confederacy of ...
confederacy of the dunces's picture

It is over. I give up. The muppets win. Truth is meaningless. Over the last 7 years I kept saying "1+1, always equals 2, even if the central planners say it equals 3,4,5, whatever they want". But I just cannot take it anymore. The math is whack, the spokes-holes are morons pushing obvious propaganda, and the sheep just wander with happy aimlessness. I have decided to take up painting.

Tue, 02/24/2015 - 02:09 | 5821389 ThirteenthFloor
ThirteenthFloor's picture

Come on does Govt control Fed or Fed control Govt ? I think the latter.

Tue, 02/24/2015 - 02:15 | 5821405 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

Debauched currencies do not prevent price discovery. They simply re denominate it which gives you price or value discovery of the currency itself. Even an inflated or deflated currency if traded over time will set the relative price of corn or one hour of an accountant's time.

In hyperinflation, the price of currency and value is zero so the price of all goods in the currency is infinite.

Tue, 02/24/2015 - 21:51 | 5825007 amadeus39
amadeus39's picture

I hope you were not just watching the market the past 6 years. If so, you missed making a lot of money.

 

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 19:47 | 5820318 Rubbish
Rubbish's picture

Long ten penny nails......

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 19:52 | 5820327 JustObserving
JustObserving's picture

Even a blind man knows that US markets have been manipulated higher since the financial crisis of 2008.  Without the wealth effect from levitating the markets, the US economy would have crashed under its debt ($18.1 trillion today) and unfunded liabilities (at least $130 trillion today).  Or just $1,270,000 per taxpayer.  And rising at $70,000 per taxpayer per year.

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 20:04 | 5820375 Berspankme
Berspankme's picture

There isn't a single .gov pension that would be have been paid without the PPP. This is how they pretend to be solvent

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 20:13 | 5820410 Kaiser Sousa
Kaiser Sousa's picture

Buy The All Time Highs!

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 21:33 | 5820663 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

On a serious note...it is...and in fact has been for me...to ponder falling prices or "deflation."

I have put the money down on that theory...outright default basically...and the Sturm und Drang of "the market is/is not" has really, well...addicted me to watching the market and to this site.

 

The "un-possibilty" of it...followed by periodic intervals of "resistance is futile" as treasuries rally yet again.

 

That is some serious "spread product" shall we say if true.

 

Probably why I like the theory and have stuck with it for this long.

Tue, 02/24/2015 - 03:14 | 5821483 El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture

We'll pretend to pay taxes and they'll pretend to be solvent.  That sounds kind of similar to something...

Tue, 02/24/2015 - 02:20 | 5821417 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

Exactly, JO. Thirteen banks are investigated and sued for fixing LIBOR, while The Fed and central banks fix interest rates, currency exchange rates, labor prices and a host of other things...legally.

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 19:51 | 5820328 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

The pace of leaks and whistleblowers confirming conspiracy theories seems to be on the uptick, probably because TPTB are taking down the curtains and exposing the wall behind the theater (paraphrasing Zappa).  Seems they don't think it's important to keep up the illusion any longer.  Maybe something big is going to happen soon, or maybe they just know that 95+% of the population just doesn't give a shit and/or understand the significance of it.

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 20:02 | 5820374 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

Part of the proccess. The unveiling of the fraud tells us we have no other options. Accept it or else. Entering the final stages of the end of the illusion of freedom. The last phase is to always force those defeated to concede defeat. All that is left is the actual publishing of the document that clearly states it in black and white. Maybe the public burning of the constitution would do it.

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 20:10 | 5820397 seek
seek's picture

I agree something big is going to happen soon, but I don't think it's because TPTB are taking down the curtains. Things are falling apart, TPTB controls at most 1/3 of the world, and they've been pulling out all the stops to try and regain control of the situation but it's not happening. As I've said before, none of the crazy moves we're seeing is something that happens when someone is confident and in control of the situation -- indeed if they were, the curtains would stay up.

My suspicion is we're watching WW3 happen right now, at least part of it, and it's information warfare. My gut feeling is the west in general has a lot more shit to hide than the other players, and two things are happening -- one, other players are releasing things to destabilize the west, timed for maximum impact, and two, that the western intelligence agencies have become aware of just how exposed they are and are actively conducting limited hangout operations to mitigate the damage to themselves. At the heart of all of this is that TPTBs boneheaded moves are starting to cost multinationals and the MIC real money, and you can see obvious dissent in situations like Apple and Google making encryption default options (yes, obviously even this is compromised, but it's affecting which levels of government have access in a very big way.)

Due to the lies and deception the west has created a very assymetric weapon to be used against it -- counter-information about Russia or China isn't going to be very damaging to them, but the truth about manipulations into war or finances is damaging to the west's presumed position of moral superiority. So the question is how far they take it and how long until uncontrolled access to the internet is curtailed. At this point I'm convinced there's secrets known to all sides that if made public with hard evidence could very well take out large portions of government of the US and several other countries, or at least damage their credibility to the point that there would be very little respect or compliance; as a counter I could easily see the US pulling the plug on the internet as we know it, claiming national security was at risk, and then slowly rebuilding some internet-lite replacement that permits no uncontrolled dissent or unfiltered news.

 

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 20:46 | 5820512 El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture

Pulling the plug on the internet would royally fuck national security.  It would take down so many businesses and grind trade to a halt.  Panem et circenses would go away.  Just about every major business depends on the internet, and I'll bet ya that EBT does too.  It would be more than just trendy college kids taking to the street. 

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 21:12 | 5820602 optimator
optimator's picture

Pulling the plug on the internet, while you hold on a phone for hours, while the 1% takes all their profit out of the market might just be the plan.

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 21:14 | 5820607 El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture

Supply chains would break and it would have an effect on everybody in the country, even the oligarchs.  It would also shut down a big part of what the NSA spies on.  They would be effectively blinding themselves. 

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 21:37 | 5820679 cornfritter
cornfritter's picture

the .01% have about as much use for the top 10% as you or i, in fact, probably less. consider that the top 30% of society are parasites... better to raise up a new young generation of techies from toddlers to service the robots

if/when it comes to that, some very proud people are gonna be quite surprised ... but then there never really was much honor among thieves, so ...

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 22:29 | 5820877 FredFlintstone
FredFlintstone's picture

The universe has no use for the bottom 70%

Tue, 02/24/2015 - 03:49 | 5821520 Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

Yet it put us here. You don't get to choose the life that arises, Fred.

Satan - Another Universe

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 21:39 | 5820687 essence
essence's picture

Beg to differ cowboy.

What would likely happen is that before going online folks would have to apply for some sort of Internet ID  such that they could be (more) easily tracked (and blocked/reprimanded) should they offend big bro.

90% of the sheeple would probably trip over themselves to sign up. And yeah, that includes businesses.

(hey, don't flame me, I'm only stating the obvious)

Tue, 02/24/2015 - 03:57 | 5821518 El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture

That would get cracked quicker than hell.  It would also bring identity theft to a whole new level. 

 

(Read the part of the guy in the call center in the voice that you would picture a worker at a fast food resturant saying "Sorry sir!  But we don't have any more chocolate chip cookies because I ate them all!" with a proud look on his face.)

 

"But sir, that purchase was done under your online ID!"

"But it wasn't me."

"But it was under your ID, it had to be you!"

"Do you have the IP address that the purchase was made from?"

"What's an IP address?"

"Go talk to one of your IT guys."

"But sir, it was under your online ID!  You have to pay!"

"Sorry, not my purchase, I'm not paying.  Here's how this is going to work:  You're going to report to your dimwit manager that I'm being non-cooperative, and he's going to send it to a collection agency.  They'll get nowhere.  It will probably be passed from collection agency to collection agency until you guys decide to sue me.  Then I'm going to get that IP address in discovery.  If you're recording this, play the conversation for a company attorney"

"What's an IP address and why would we give it to you in "discovery?"

"Just talk to your IT guys and get back to me."

 

(Two weeks later.)

"Sir, we have that IP address.  It's xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx.  I'm not sure what this really means."

"I am.  That IP comes up as originating from Nigeria.  I've never been to Nigeria.  You've been scammed with my online ID by some Nigerians."

"But sir!  It was your online ID.  You owe us money!"

 

 

And that would be me dealing with them.  I've been through the ringer with debt collectors and know the ropes.  Your average joe would get fucked six ways from Sunday. 

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 21:40 | 5820689 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

Control is an illusion.

 

The internet cannot be turned off...even by the USA.

 

"Data" is not some ethereal thing.  Even if you have to talk to yourself to remind you of "the rules"... all data must be in its proper place.  Like fiat money...if it is not " sequestered" properly it can be the basis of a "mechanism" or "mind" if you will.

 

VERY dangerous.

The ultimate killing machine.

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 21:46 | 5820718 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

There is more than 1 internet.

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 23:23 | 5821023 cornflakesdisease
cornflakesdisease's picture

Yes, the genie of the internet is out of the bottle and you can't put it back in.  Too much commerce depends on the internet.  It isn't going anywhere.

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 20:53 | 5820537 Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

I agree with you guys that something big is coming, and government is aware it is coming. The NSA scoops up every fact that gets recorded, so they have to know the trends, and what is breaking down behind the curtain. Much like Soviet KGB knew that the USSR was collapsing, and stepped in to take it apart before a collapse happended.

Now I don't know what that big thing is that is coming. I expect a chain reaction financial meltdown with banks and markets impolding inside of a couple days.

What makes me think America sees a major disaster close at hand, is the depserate attempt to take down Russia that came out of no where really. Yes they made a move in 2008, but now they are seemingly willing to do anything to force Russia to surrender and accept an Americna puppet government.

What is going to happen in the west might be so big that a Russia strong and united would be a major threat as seen from Washington. If that total economic meltdown I think is coming, does come. Russia will have little part in it. Russia does do world trade, but in a pinch, that nation is self contained, and has everything needed to live and prosper, and has no population or immigration pressures either. Add a military equipped with ultra modern Missile systems and good ground forces, the Russian nation could and would sit out the wests collapse.

I think Washington wants to take Russia down, NOW, so they would pose no threat when western finance capital implodes. China would implode too. As for Russia, Iran, India, and some others, I don't see them imploding just because the west does.

Washington has the upper hand now, they may soon lose it. Now is the time to strike. Look for serious war in East Ukraine come May-June.

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 21:03 | 5820575 Cabreado
Cabreado's picture

"the desperate attempt to take down Russia"

"I think Washington wants to take Russia down, NOW"

Melodrama doesn't serve anyone.

 

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 21:05 | 5820578 booboo
booboo's picture

"As for Russia, Iran, India, and some others, I don't see them imploding just because the west does"

Indians bath in rivers while dead bloated bodies float by.

Russians have seen worse so they will roll with the tide.

Iranians have seen CIA induced upheaval, been there done that.

Americans shit their pants when the cable goes out for and hour.

Yea, it's coming in spades and I mean spades.

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 21:08 | 5820589 El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture

Look at what is happening to the oil storage situation, look at how many junk bonds were issued by energy companies and look at the price of oil.  You don't even need to look at what we're doing with Russia to get the feeling that something is close.  What do you think is going to happen when our oil storage is either full, or close enough to full to be cost prohibitive?  I am morbidly curious as to how DC will try to deal with that, because you cannot paper over the flow of physical goods. If they try to intervene, they will only make things worse in the long run.

 

The federal government is going to, out of necessity, become a whole lot less relevant.  Just be ready to dodge its violent thrashing on its way down.  It's downfall will probably be more than just a bit dicey. 

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 21:43 | 5820703 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

India will not implode if the Banksters do.

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 21:12 | 5820604 Money_for_Nothing
Money_for_Nothing's picture

No honor among thieves. About to break out into warlord mode.

Tue, 02/24/2015 - 03:31 | 5821501 MeBizarro
MeBizarro's picture

It would be very hard for the US gov't to do what you are describing given multiple reasons regarding pulling down the Net entirely and then slowly rebuilding.  Imagine what would happen if basic citizens actually had that daily time input to fill or even severe had no TV.  

The reality is that using Google or various search engines turns up at most about 10% of the content is on the Internet and the more recent estimates put it at well under 5%.  The gov't is woefully behind and generally can't keep with the Deep Web from what I have been reading/following. 

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